Talk:Neo Geo (system)

images

I've added some images of an arcade console. If anyone has any image manipulation skills, it would be good if they could make a version of the one in the infobox with a white background instead of my kitchen. (yes, I have an arcade game in my kitchen and it's the coolest thing ever) Beeblebrox (talk) 01:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done I finally figured out where to ask for someone to do this. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:36, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

moved

I don't think this move was a good idea, for the simple reason that the article is clearly about both the AES and the MVS. I think it should be moved back. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

That's correct, but that would appear to exclude from moving it back to Neo Geo (console) as well. Any other suggestison? --Marty Goldberg (talk) 00:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, perhaps this should just me merged with NeoGeo, which covers much of the same territory anyway. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, that article looks like it could use a bit of fleshing out from some of the material in this article. It looks more like a general short index of products instead of a full article on the Neo Geo platform. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 02:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The archives got orphaned in the move as well, whatever we end up doing we should remember to bring them along. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Terrible move. I propose moving back. Besides, the NGH/AES discussion is always an issue. --Bobak (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

merger proposal

Moved back per consensus above, and started official merger discussion also per above. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 22:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Older Neo Geo?

Was there a precursor to the Neo Geo described here? I followed alink because it reminded me of the message (something like "NEO GEO 56 MEGA") that was displayed on games contemporary with games like Atlantis (video game) and Phoenix (video game), back in the early 80s. I not sure which ones it was, but it clearly was a reference to the hardware the games were running on. The Yowser (talk) 15:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Move to Neo Geo (system)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved . Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 00:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

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Neo Geo (console) → Neo Geo (system) – I think this page should be moved to Neo Geo (system). Previously, the page was moved to Neo Geo AES, a name that covered only the home version. It was moved back to Neo Geo (console), but as the article video game console notes, "console" is used to distinguish a home system from an arcade system. The name "Neo Geo (system)" would apply to both the arcade board, dubbed the "Multiple Video System" and the home console, called the "Advanced Entertainment System." --Jtalledo (talk) 23:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support - As per the information presented in the nom. Salvidrim! 19:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
• Neo Geo system would be naturally disambiguated and preferred over Neo Geo (system), per WP:PRECISION. ENeville (talk) 22:34, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• I think that's more ambiguous actually. The parenthesis shows that the name of the product is just plain "Neo Geo". "Neo Geo system" could refer to any of the other systems, from the Neo Geo CD to the Neo Geo Pocket. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support, agreeing with all reasons. Should be moved to Neo Geo (system), and NOT Neo Geo system --GAMEGEEK 21:23, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support: Neo Geo (system) is a properly disambiguated title. — Bility (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Neo Geo X should not be merged with NeoGeo System or console article

Hello. Just want to say that the Neo Geo X page is not the same as the Neo Geo system or console page. they are different products and therefore need different pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.56.124 (talk) 13:17, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

No, they don't need separate pages. There is nothing unique about the Neo Geo X that it deserves it own page. There simply isn't enough content that necessitates its own article. Therefore, it should be merged. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:03, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree. At some point after its release it may merit a stand-alone article, but as an unreleased derivative product it can easily be covered here. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:13, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually it should be merged with the main article at Neo Geo, which covers the entire product line. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually... I agree with putting it in Neo Geo instead. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

There's no point to merge. There are already secondary sources that give the NeoGeo X the notability to have its own article. Merging because we don't have enough info now is pointless as it will warrant it's own article later. Plenty of products get stub articles made pre-release only to have them expanded later.207.237.208.153 (talk) 18:58, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

"as it will warrant it's own article later" runs contrary to WP:CRYSTAL. We're not talking about later, we're talking about now. And what is so unique about this device that it requires its own article? What content could possibly make the Neo Geo X article a full article and not just a feature list and mention of the included games? And anyway, if there is enough content later, then the article can be restored from a redirect. This isn't a deletion discussion, it's a merge discussion. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

• I agree that the Neo Geo page makes more sense than here since this is an article about one particular system made by Neo Geo not their entire console line. It would be like trying to Merge the PlayStation 3 into the original PlayStation article.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 18:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Also taking a closer look shows that the Neo Geo X is a handheld meaning that this should absolutely not be merged here.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 18:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

68000 is 16-bit or 32-bit?

Why does this article repeatedly say the 68000 main CPU is a 16-bit processor when even the Wikipedia article it links to states that it is a 32-bit CPU? Referring to the data bus size as the CPU bittage seems more semantics than factual. 208.54.86.221 (talk) 22:18, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

There's no industry standard for how to describe the bit-ness of a given chip (it's usually the domain of marketing departments and fanboys) and I don't know that there's any consensus among editors, but the original 68k series CPUs had 16-bit ALUs and are widely considered 16-bit. The Sega Genesis has a very similar CPU, was heavily advertised as 16-bit, and is uncontroversially described today as a 16-bit video game console. SNK itself sometimes billed the Neo Geo as 24-bit (16+8). The rationale for calling it a 32-bit chip is less compelling.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that coverage of such technical details, which are irrelevant and bordering on meaningless to all but the smallest subset of readers, is generally out of place in video game articles. ButOnMethItIs (talk) 04:45, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I second this, including the last sentence. Technical details are of a limited interest to a general audience, but they seem to be standard to articles on video game systems. Classifying a CPU by bits is definitely dicey, especially when it comes to video game consoles. But given that SNK themselves classified the CPU as 16-bit (along with the 8-bit coprocessor as 24-bit) instead of pumping up the specs to 32-bit for marketing purposes, I think 16-bit is the more accurate description. --Jtalledo (talk) 10:56, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

User:VideoGameMuseum

Please discuss your large scale changes here. At this point, many people believe you are yet another sock of user:Jakandsig.--Asher196 (talk) 16:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Maximum ROM capacity

The original ROM size spec was later enhanced on cartridges with bank switching memory technology, increasing the maximum cartridge size to around 716 Mbit.

Yes, that was the largest official game, KOF 2003. But this is not the technical limit, since NG.DEV.TEAM's Fast Striker and upcoming Razion go all the way to 1560 Megabits.[1][2] --Stormwatch (talk) 02:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Clearness of units

The sizes of the sections are intended to be megabits instead of megabytes? For storage size is more common and intuitive megabytes.

I guess you haven't ever read about video game consoles before, because for video games, the manufacturers and the press have always written storage size as megabits. It's stated perfectly clearly. — Smuckola(talk) 15:17, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Reorganization, July 2014

Hi everyone. I just did a major reorganization of this article, mainly having deleted enormous amounts of WP:OR, WP:GAMECRUFT, WP:NOTGUIDE, etc. I'm linking it here because some of it might be relevant to the likes of a hobbyist site or wikia. It just can't go in an encyclopedia. Its enthusiasm could provide inspiration for the new Reception section, which I encourage people to expand with contemporaneous reviews of the system, as well as retrospective reviews. Thanks!

• delete "Graphical development" for OR and trivia
• create "Legacy" and merge "Game ports" there
• move non-image-description copy from image captions into article body
• merge "Graphics" and such into "Specifications"
• delete most of "Collecting" and "Graphical development" due to it being MEGA ULTRA PRO SPEC WP:OR WP:GAMECRUFT WP:NOTGUIDE SHOCK ;) and merge the rest into Legacy
• convert the list of "Other Neo Geo systems" into prose elsewhere

— Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 22:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thank you! --Jtalledo (talk) 11:34, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

'Niche market' citation needed

I'm a former arcade collector, and as such the 980K figure strikes me as low compared to the number of arcade Neo-Geo system boards sold! I'm ready to remove the citation needed from this paragraph and change it to only refer to the CD and cartridge console version, but it would be nice to find verified figures for their arcade boards, since the Wikipedia article is about both. The best estimate I can find is 'well less than five million'. Can someone contribute?

Henrik Erlandsson 18:35, 14 October 2015 (UTC) Henrik Erlandsson 18:36, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Fixing some incorrect assertions

I've corrected a couple of false statements in the opening paragraph. 1) The Neo Geo was not the "longest-lived video game system of all time". Even in the citation it states it's the longest supported arcade system. I mean, the Famicom was in production for what? 20 years? 2) While the Neo Geo was certainly the most powerful home console at the time of its release, it was not more powerful than any home computer. Again, the citation doesn't state that.

The first is obviously incorrect and for the second I'd like to see a good by the numbers analysis to prove me wrong. CrinklyCrunk (talk) 21:43, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

um what?

Lets talk megabytes shall we??!1?

The original specification for ROM size is up to 330 megabits, hence the system displaying "MAX 330 MEGA PRO-GEAR SPEC" upon startup. While no technical advances were required to achieve it, some games over 100 megabits, such as Top Hunter, followed this screen by displaying an animation proclaiming "THE 100MEGA SHOCK!". The original ROM size specification was later enhanced on cartridges with bank switching memory technology, increasing the maximum cartridge size to around 716 megabits. These new cartridges also cause the system to display "GIGA POWER PRO-GEAR SPEC" upon startup or during attract mode, indicating this enhancement. 96.234.29.41 (talk) 02:30, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

...Do you have an actual point here, or did you just want to talk about megabits?--Martin IIIa (talk) 18:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

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The Neo Geo has no "planes"

I added a similar comment to the Neo Geo CD's talk page too. Saying the Neo has 3 planes is confusing and misleading. It really has no planes at all other than the fix layer which is just a simple foreground plane. Mattgreer88 (talk) 21:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

3840 colors simultaneously, not 4096

Simple arithmetics. 256 palettes at the same time. Each palette defining 15 colors (+ 1 forced color as transparency). 15*256 = 3840. Il also removed the reference to "12 bits", because it made no sense.

I made the modification in the page. I also explained briefly, introducing the system of tiles. Totologic (talk) 13:08, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Suggestion to move page

So I think it's best to have this page moved to Neo Geo. There is currently a Neo Geo article which describes the 'family of video game hardware'. However it is just a loose collection of the various hardware bearing that name. 'NEO GEO' strictly on its own refers to what we have on this Neo Geo (system) page i.e. the MVS and AES. (It is not comparable with the PlayStation brand, for example, which is a linear series.) The 'Retro consoles' section of the current Neo Geo page is also basically all related directly to this MVS/AES. To make matters worse, the current Neo Geo article is also I think quite poor and lacks references throughout.

In short, I think Neo Geo (system) should move > Neo Geo. The aforementioned 'retro consoles' would also be mentioned here as they are related to Neo Geo MVS/AES. And the intro of this page already talks about and links to their distinct 'successor' products: Neo Geo CD & Hyper Neo Geo 64.

Tagging since you might be interested @Sergecross73, Red Phoenix, Axem Titanium, Smuckola, and Waxworker: Sceeegt (talk) 02:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think this is analogous to the 3DO situation. 3DO is at a disambiguation page when it should be the primary target. Here, it's not obvious that the first console should be the primary target over the series of consoles. If you would like to make the argument that Neo Geo (system) should be the primary target, make it on recognizability grounds, not technical grounds. See WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for how to make this argument. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I've attempted to explain that point though? "'NEO GEO' strictly on its own refers to what we have on this Neo Geo (system) page". I'm happy to look for sources but want to hear what others think first. Sceeegt (talk) 14:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

You might want to start setting up these discussions as WP:REQUESTEDMOVEs. They alert editors specifically interested in article naming, so it might help you from having them stall out without any action. Sergecross73 msg me 13:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 5 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Sceeegt (talk) 01:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

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Neo Geo (system) → Neo Geo – As argued above, 'Neo Geo' refers primarily (PRIMARYNAME) to what this article is talking about - as opposed to the other entries in Neo Geo (disambiguation). It is also inaccurate to call Neo Geo a 'family' as they are very distinct and different hardware (not like Atari 8-bit computers) only sharing similar names.

As for the current Neo Geo article: the entire 'Retro consoles' section (which makes up more than half of it) is directly related to the topic of this (currently Neo Geo (system)) article specifically - therefore, that section would be merged here. The rest of the article would be redundant as it is merely a list and a 'family' even though it isn't - the info is already well covered in SNK, the manufacturer of these products. It is also poorly sourced as we speak, anyway, and with questionable accuracy (infobox 'discontinued in 2004' refers to this 'Neo Geo (system)' article, the logo is also representative of what is currently 'Neo Geo (system)', not another product).

Sceeegt (talk) 15:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• The ststem has more views (10,536) than the family (3,528)[[3]] but the family could be a broad-concept article but perhaps a DAB would be best. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
• Malformed request comment: The proposal does not clearly suggest what should be done with the current article content at Neo Geo. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry I explained it in the discussion above this proposal. I'm going to edit and put it in this request now.

It sounds like you want a merge proposal. Merge Neo Geo (system) into Neo Geo and you won't have to do a move. Dicklyon (talk) 19:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

No actually not a merge. Neo Geo is an article that shouldn't be here as it is. Neo Geo (system) is the right article. Only some content from Neo Geo belongs in what is Neo Geo (system). Sceeegt (talk) 01:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I think their concern is that, you've requested a move, but you wish to move it to a location where there is already an article, without offering an explanation for where that article should be moved should your requested move happen. They both can't exist at the same location. Sergecross73 msg me 16:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I've already done my best to explain that - the current Neo Geo article would be redundant, so it won't be going anywhere. Half of that article would remain post-move, the other half is not needed as it's already documented in SNK. Sceeegt (talk) 17:11, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I think what you are describing is called a merge. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and a rather major one that would affect a lot of things. I'd recommend coming up with a more cohesive proposal on what you wish to do and posting it at WT:VG, and if you have consensus to move forward, much of that you could just do on your own, and just ask for an article rename once you've completed the merges. Sergecross73 msg me 17:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Done Sceeegt (talk) 20:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Hm the main reason why I didn't call it a merge is because half of that article - basically from the very top up until the 'Retro consoles' section starts - would be completely gone ('redundant') and hence not going anywhere. But I suppose if that counts as a merge then sorry make it a merge then. Sceeegt (talk) 17:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support According to Wikinav, nearly 25% of outgoing pageviews from this article go to the original console. There's also no real evidence the Neo Geo brand is standalone notable. The portable Neo Geos are hardly well-known. I support moving the current primary topic to Neo Geo (brand) but then possibly merging it into the system article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
• It sounds like what you really want to do is selectively merge content from Neo Geo into Neo Geo (system) and SNK, then delete Neo Geo, then finally move Neo Geo (system) to Neo Geo, leaving a redirect. I know that sounds awfully particular, but it's not clear in the request, and it's important when you consider which article histories are retained. So the request as it is now, I oppose. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 08:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  Yes what you say is exactly what I had in mind initially, but I haven't been exactly aware of technicals like article histories. Based on what others said previously I am no longer strictly suggesting this approach, in favor of merging Neo Geo (system) into Neo Geo, but my reasoning remains the same (i.e. PRIMARYTOPIC and the Neo Geo 'series' not notable enough for its own page). Though as I've already made the request I'm not sure whether it can be changed. Sceeegt (talk) 22:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural close: It seems that the OP did not actually want to request a move per se, but rather a merge followed by a move. So to me this RM does not seem necessary at this time. Bensci54 (talk) 17:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge proposal

Withdrawn move request as it wasn't right. I propose merging this page into Neo Geo due to PRIMARYTOPIC and even COMMONNAME, as "Neo Geo" refers predominantly to the topic that is currently on this Neo Geo (system) article. Along with/after the merge, as previously stated in the move request, the merged content would replace the top half of the current Neo Geo article, as that would be redundant and the so-called Neo Geo "family" isn't notable enough to warrant its article anyway.

Sceeegt (talk) 01:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the blunder, I'll re-format it like how TarkusAB has explained. My proposal is to:

1. Merge Neo Geo into SNK and Neo Geo (system). (This effectively leaves the Neo Geo page vacant)
2. Move Neo Geo (system) to Neo Geo

...because of PRIMARYTOPIC and COMMONNAME. --Sceeegt (talk) 03:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose You're still thinking about it wrong. You wrote: I propose merging this page into Neo Geo [...] as "Neo Geo" refers predominantly to the topic that is currently on this Neo Geo (system) [...] Neo Geo "family" isn't notable enough to warrant its article anyway. Your request doesn't make align with what you're saying. Merging the system article into the family article would mean that you think the family is the primary topic. Article topics should never change. We just move/merge/split article topics to live under different names. If you think that the Neo Geo family article content can exist elsewhere, and the system is the rightful owner to that article name, then what you want to request is: :# Merge Neo Geo into SNK and Neo Geo (system). (This effectively leaves the Neo Geo page vacant) :# Move Neo Geo (system) to Neo Geo

This can be one request, even though it is effectively two steps. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 02:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support This will be a difficult change, but I think this is a net positive. There is a lot of cross-content between Neo Geo and Neo Geo (system), and I think it's confusing for the reader. I think to do this right, there will need to be a section about the Neo Geo "brand" added to SNK, as well as an expanded legacy section on the system article that covers the how "Neo Geo" turned into a brand of sorts and expanded to handhelds as well as the retro consoles. I'm curious to hear other opinions. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 18:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

  That's pretty much the idea I had. I can definitely do it and won't leave anything unsourced. Sceeegt (talk) 03:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC) Tagging for attention @Sergecross73, Bensci54, and Zxcvbnm: Tagging more potentially interested users: @Red Phoenix, BOZ, Ringtail Raider, and Shooterwalker: --Sceeegt (talk) 15:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to sign the message to ping. @Sergecross73, Bensci54, and Zxcvbnm: TarkusAB^talk/contrib 19:49, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to submit an AFD for Neo Geo, because that's effectively what this is. Should get better participation that way. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 21:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Posted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Neo Geo TarkusAB^talk/contrib 04:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)