Talk:Rosie the Riveter

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The Other Rosie[edit]

I remember watching a show (NOVA, maybe?) where they depicted Rosie and talked about how after the war was ended, they wanted women back in the homes so they created another piece of propaganda depicting Rosie as a housewife again. I'm trying to google some info about that and I thought for sure it would be here. If I find it I'll edit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.215.166.207 (talk) 02:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The various models used in the pictures.[edit]

Should this article link to the real life womenwho were used in the posters, like Geraldine Doyle, Rosie Will Monroe and Mary Doyle Keefe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.199.192.110 (talk) 15:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Comments?[edit]

I have used Wikipedia for a long time i think it is a very informational site. I use it to check out cool facts in history and previous happenings. I am in the 5th grade and my teacher loves to use it too! P.S. Keep up the good work!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.117.103.189 (talk) 20:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It means a lot to the people that put effort into this site. ...Though I haven't ever edited this article in particular. - Boss1000 16:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I am a high school student and i used wikipedia to do a precisis at school. This site was vey informational and was very useful. I also used the fashion site and it taught me alot about the fashion history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.184.245.248 (talk) 19:55, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Too bad it didn't teach you how to spell!bitch! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.157.32.210 (talk) 02:28, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
No need to be rude. I consider it very kind for a person to take the time to be grateful for the hard work of others, though I would suggest trying to find the proper place to do it (this page it to talk about the article, Rosie the Riveter). - Boss1000 16:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Confusion[edit]

The article seems a bit confused. It appears that Rockwell's cover was the 1940s icon, and that the "We Can Do It!" poster only became popular in later years because of its copyright status. The article should be less explicit in identifying the "We Can Do It!" poster as the definitive Rosie. See here.--Pharos 15:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Air Force[edit]

The article says that Ms. Rose Monroe built planes for the Air Force during WWII, however the Air Force wasn't created until after the war in 1947. Anyone have an explanation for that?

In 1942, it would have been the United States Army Air Forces.--Pharos 03:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Close but no cigar. It would have been the United States Army Air Corps through 1941, , which would then include the 1st Air Force, 8th Air Force, 9th Air Force, etc. Let me correct myself, Phraros is correct that in 1942 if became the United States Army Air Forces. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Stan

Stamp image[edit]

Do we really need the stamp image in this article? It's identical to the poster, so wouldn't it suffice to have a sentence saying, "In 1999 the USPS released a stamp featuring the famous poster with the caption 'Celebrate the Century - 1940s - Women Support War Effort'"? If there are no objections within say, a week, I'll remove it. howcheng {chat} 22:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the stamp should be left there.. I know it's identical to the poster and all, however, it does show how popular that image became. If there was just left a reference to the stamp, people would be asking for a picture of the stamp to be found and put up, regardless of the fact it's identical. 72.147.89.244 04:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Rosie not the same Rosie[edit]

I found another news website that states that Rose Monroe is not the Rosie the riveter that is used in the posters, here's a link i think you should all read through it.67.172.225.189 01:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

A Real-Life "Rosie the Riveter" [[[1]]]

That's not a news website, it's a publisher of children's textbooks. I'm not saying they're completely unreliable, but even high-level textbooks are known to be rife with errors. It would be interesting to know what their source is. Kafziel Talk 04:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Rosie has been inspirational in the past to all working woman. I think we need someone like that today.


Risinglass?[edit]

The article says "goggles on and a risinglass protective shield." Should that be Isinglass? tim 18:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe the quotation is referring to a welding helmet (see [2]). --Jopo (talk) 09:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

That confused me as well; I can't change it, because it's a quote. But Google only returns this article and a mirror of this article for "risinglass protective shield" - did someone mistranscribe the reference? In fact, there isn't a reference. Where is the quote from? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 20:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Another webpage uses this quote as well, albeit a bit longer. http://www.americola.com/sites/Rosie_the_Riveter This site also does not list a reference. A notable difference is "...goggles and an risinglass protective....". This is likely a misquote as well, but interestingly they used "an". This would suggest they meant the word following "an" to start with a vowel, like isinglass would. I think both sites made a clear error as risinglass isn't a word. Isinglass is and would apply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldtruck (talkcontribs) 03:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable Rosie in lead[edit]

I removed the following from the lead, as it did not seem notable enough, but I'm stashing it here, since it had a reference. —johndburger 02:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

(Many "Rosies" included Rose Bonavita, who along with a partner drilled 900 holes and drove over 3,300 rivets into an airplane in 1943.[1])
  1. ^ Curran, John J. (January 2002). "Peekskill History". City of Peekskill, New York. Retrieved 2007-08-14. 

"Rosie the Riveter’s Wartime Medical Records" Morris F Collen, MD Bryan Culp Tom Debley

The Permanente Journal/ Summer 2008/ Volume 12 No. 3

On June 8, 1943, a riveter named Rose “Rosie” Bonavita set a production record by driving 3345 rivets in one work shift while working on a bomber aircraft. For this astonishing feat she was dubbed “Rosie the Riveter” by the press and she received a personal letter of commendation from President Franklin D Roosevelt

162.119.238.162 (talk) 15:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC) Tim Brown

History[edit]

They never made B-29s at Willow Run--only B-24 Liberators. So if the infamous Rose Monroe indeed helped make B-29s, she had to have done it somewhere else, and as far as I know, they never made B-29s anywhere else in the Detroit area.


Stephan Wilkinson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.79 (talk) 15:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Publicity shot only?[edit]

Has anyone looked closely at the lathe in the WomanFactory1940s.jpg image, recently featured as a stand-alone image? As far as I can tell there is no work piece bolted to the face plate, no tools in the turret lathe turret, and nothing is spinning! The hard work being applied would appear fictitious. Robbie Morrison. 18:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

You're right. I admire the image for its quality, but especially in the 1940s it's hard to imagine that they could have taken such a phenomenal "action" shot. Clearly, it had to have been staged. The question then becomes whether this was a model or a real factory woman who was posed for the shoot. -- Eliyahu S Talk 06:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The lady with the drill seems to have a very unsafe pose, too, but the shots are excellent. What happened to Howard R Hollem? His pictures are like a Strobist.com post. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 20:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC) she was never on drugs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.160.19.252 (talk) 14:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Material or materiel?[edit]

There is a hidden note in the introduction stating "<!-- MATERIEL IS NOT MATERIAL - THIS IS THE CORRECT SPELLING!!! -->". The only problem is, I can't tell which is supposed to be the correct spelling, material or materiel? howcheng {chat} 19:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

  • I believe that materiel, in the sense of military equipment and supplies is meant, rather than the less specific "material". --Dystopos (talk) 19:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
    • That would be my assumption too, except that the article has "material" ... so I can't tell if "material" is what's meant, or that someone changed it even though the hidden comment was right there. howcheng {chat} 22:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Rockwell[edit]

Can we get a fair use Rockwell version in the article?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism[edit]

Sorry I was madly scrambling around trying to remove some image vandalism this morning at work (with my boss looking over my shoulder) so might've accidentally undone a couple of genuine edits, sorry!

User:Hovlev 09:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Land Girls link[edit]

I changed the description for the link to Land Girls. The UK Women's Land Army consisted of women who were conscripted to work in agriculture, not in factories. Millions of British women did work in factories in WWII, making weapons, ammunition, planes, ships etc., but as far as I know they did not have a collective name or an icon like Rosie the Riveter. The term 'Munitionettes' appears occasionally for women who worked in munitions factories - it seems to date from World War I - but I can't find out much about it. PhilUK (talk) 12:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Removal of content[edit]

I've reverted the article back to a previous version after an anonymous IP previously attempted to remove sections that were, in my opinion, unencyclopedic and, in some places, poorly sourced. Cluebot reverted the IP's edit because of the amount of text removed, but the removal was correct and wasn't vandalism. If the sections are added back, they need to be rewritten, properly cited (using <ref></ref> or a citation template), and placed in some sort of order for clarity. Pinkadelica Say it... 20:19, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Fueling jets?[edit]

I'm puzzled by the reference to "fueling jets" in the Shirley Karp section. Is this a reference to fueling propeller-driven fighters, bombers or civilian air transports? Or to actual jets?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_airplanes

The above states that Italians, British, Germans, Japanese and Americans had experimental versions either shortly before WWII or at least by late in the war, but the first operational jet fighters did not come into action until 1944. In the US, jet development and production was limited to no more than 100 planes, only some of which became operational, and none of which proved significant in combat.

So my question is: Were women fueling Bell's experimental jets at Muroc Army Air Field (today's Edwards AFB)? What was the extent of their participation in this top secret project? Alberto Enriquez (talk) 16:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism ?[edit]

"Two of her most famous photos were on a book written by Adolf Hitler". Is this right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.181.225.250 (talk) 02:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Confused[edit]

The article is all about the cultural icon, Rosie the Riveter, yet there is no specific image used to represent the icon. Is she actually depicted in the "We Can Do It" poster, or did this come later? Was it just the concept of "Women in the Workplace", but called "Rosie the Riveter"? Was there an image? A cartoon? etc. Roygbiv666 (talk) 15:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, so nobody then. Nobody knows if there's an iconic image of Rosie.
Roygbiv666 (talk) 18:17, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Rosie Obit[edit]

Hello, This is my first time doing this but I felt that this maybe important to add to the discussion of Rosie and who she was. Today there was an obit locally and I think you may want to check into this--sorry if this isn't the right place to do this but it seemed the thing to do-- for more info than I've posted here you may want to check out the Los Angeles Daily News obits for her which is different from what I have here from an inland empire paper's website :

Rosalie Kunert ROSALIE KUNERT "ROSIE THE RIVETER" Age 86 of Burbank, Rosie passed on June 28th. She was born Rosalie Helen Merritt on October 2, 1922 in Hackensack, Minnesota. In late 1942 she relocated to Southern California where she began working at the Lockheed Airplane Factory in Burbank. Like many women during WWII, she took on previously male dominated trades such as riveting teams working on the cockpit shells of airplane bombers. It was here that she was approached for an interview to help promote and encourage women to take over vacated jobs for the duration of the war. She was initially singled out for her tall, statuesque appearance and bright auburn hair tied back in her polka-dot head scarf. They asked her to consider appearing in a promotional film about the war effort at home but she modestly declined not wanting to be singled out from the others. Regardless, the name was still officially coined. Another woman in Michigan was chosen and eventually "Rosie the Riveter" went on to become perhaps the most widely recognized icon of that era. Films, posters and even a song were used to encourage women to go to work in support of the war effort. Rosie was very proud of being a pioneer in proving that women could do the jobs known as "mens work", creating an entirely new image of women in American society and setting the stage for future generations . After the war, Rosie met and married Gerald John Kunert and they remained married for over 55 years before he preceded her to Heaven in 2001. The couple resided in Burbank, raising five children. To supplement their income during the sixties, she worked out of her house as a barber for the neighborhood with clientele reaching over 200 at its height. Most boys attending St. Francis Xavier and Horace Mann Elementary schools in this era will fondly remember the Bazooka bubble gum they received along wit h their parent's appreciation of the fifty cent haircuts. In 1968 she returned to the work force at Miller Elementary School in the cafeteria and later was the Manager at Washington Elementary. She worked with the Burbank Unified School District for 16 years. Rosie was a very driven and creative individual and nothing seemed insurmountable with her "Can Do" attitude. Whether it was building a room addition to her home, painting on canvas, doing needlepoint, or applying her green thumb to her wonderful garden, no project was too large or too small. Despite her busy lifestyle she always embraced the needs of others before her own. She would drop anything she was doing to help those who asked. She was the most caring, trustworthy person in the whole world, never passing judgment on anyone. Rosie's unconditional love and strength will be forever cherished by all. She is survived by four children, Karen Walker, Rodney Kunert, Bob Kunert, Brian Kunert; three grandchildren, Jennifer Kunert, Kevin Kunert, C hristopher Kunert; two brothers and one sister. Her eldest son John Kunert preceded her in death in 2005. A graveside service will be held at Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills on Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 11:00 a.m. Supplementary to flowers, donations to the Alzheimer's Association at alz.org would be greatly appreciated. The family would also like to thank the staff at Belmont Village in Burbank. Their compassion will always be sincerely remembered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Partigirl (talkcontribs) 06:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Rosie the Riveter originated as a song[edit]

The History section of this article is totally confused. "Rosie the Riveter" was originally a song about a woman named Rosalind P. Walter. The Rosie posters, movies, models, etc came later. The "Yes We Can!" poster was subsumed into the "Rosie" phenomenon retroactively. This article barely even mentions the song and doesn't mention Rosalind Walter at all. Nor does it explain that the song was the origin of the phrase. Kaldari (talk) 23:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I've added some info on the song to the article. Feel free to elaborate on it. Kaldari (talk) 23:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
The earliest mention I've been able to find so far of "Rosie the Riveter" is a January 2, 1943 article in Billboard Magazine. Kaldari (talk) 00:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
According to this entry in Google Books, the song was published in 1942 by Paramount Music Corp. Kaldari (talk) 02:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Epic fail? Someone revert the obvious vandalism. --Cheesemoo0 02:17, 23 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheesemoo0 (talkcontribs)

Need to balance the debate[edit]

Regarding the Rosie movement's impact on the role of women in the post-War American workforce. I have added some statistics supporting the side that contends that the Rosie the Riveter movement was merely a response to a wartime domestic labor shortage and not the tidal changes in the role of women in the American workforce. (Honey, Liftoff citations added to support claims) The article seems to glorify the Rosie movement during the war as fundamentally changing the number women in the skilled labor force although there are many than believe that once the war was over their roles reverted back to how they were in the pre-War period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tranc (talkcontribs) 20:56, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the current article seems to mostly gloss over the fact that nearly all of the women recruited into factory jobs during this time were immediately laid off once the war ended. Even women who had received extensive training in specialized jobs were laid off. U.S. government propaganda also shifted dramatically at this time, emphasizing that women needed to go back home to be "proper housewives" for their returning husbands and should concentrate on raising children rather than working (regardless of the fact that many were now single mothers who needed the extra income). The current article is a bit unbalanced in this regard, treating the Rosie phenomenon as completely positive for women, when in reality it was largely just exploitative with few lasting benefits for women. Kaldari (talk) 23:26, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
This 'article' seems to have once had a decent core of neutrality, but it's almost as if it has slowly accumulated piles of biased, unsubstantiated, subjective rubbish, which has become heavily intermixed with the rational side of the subject. The word "Propaganda" appears 6 times in the article. "Conditions were sometimes harsh and pay was not always equal" - of course the conditions were physically challenging, hence why it was a male-dominated field until the war asked the men to go fight and die. This also glosses over the fact that men (who had likely worked in the field far longer than women) would, obviously, be paid more due to their higher productivity and greater capability. Although the topic is of historical significance to some, I think the whole biased nature to be quite childish. "Rosie the Riveter", "Wendy the Welder", "Josephine the Plumber" - these are all caricaturistic archetypes for females, such as "G.I. Joe" is for boys and teenagers. They are child concepts. There is no "G.I. Joe" article on Wikipedia for men, and there really needn't be - it's simply not significant; men join armies, fight, and die - old news. Putting a bunch of women upon some pedestal because they temporarily did manual labour with 'the men', does not mean they should be touted about with such a lack of objectivity. The whole thing simply sounds like my 5 year old daughter telling everyone "she made dinner", when, in fact, she stirred a pot for 5 seconds, then went back to her normal routine. There's nothing wrong with praising someone for helping out, but let's not overdo it, shall we? If women derive such pride from this moment in history (doing some real physical work), then why have they not rejoined the manufacturing industry; why is it still a male-dominated field? Equality is here now... in fact, many businesses have special quotas which give women a free ticket to getting hired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.27.32 (talk) 10:42, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

A Rosie dies[edit]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101230/ts_alt_afp/ushistorywwiifeminism —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.243.84 (talk) 01:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I see some serious errors in this text. 1. B 29s were not built at Willow Run. They were built at Wichita KS and Renton Washington by Boeing, and by Bell in Georgia and by Martin in Nebraska. This is per the Boeing History site:http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/b29.html 2.The c 47 and it's variants were built by Douglas aircraft at Long Beach and Santa Monica CA and at Oklahoma City OK. North American did not build any.:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3 These errors would seem to be no brainers. ````Scott Powers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdmidget (talkcontribs) 13:03, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Rediscovery of Westinghouse poster[edit]

The re-discovery of the Westinghouse poster remains something of a mystery. It was probably after 1980 since the documentary The Life and Times of Rosie the Riveter, which shows numerous posters from the WWII era, doesn't show or mention the Westinghouse poster at all. The earliest known reference to the poster is apparently a 1984 issue of Modern Maturity. A 1985 issue of U.S. News and World Report also prominently mentions the poster. Kaldari (talk) 07:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Purpose of Westinghouse poster[edit]

Is there are a source for the statement that "Its intent was to help recruit women to join the work force". These articles: http://contexts.org/articles/spring-2011/secrets-of-a-feminist-icon/ http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/04/myth-making-and-the-we-can-do-it-poster/ (written by the same people) seem to indicate that the Westinghouse poster was intended to encourage workers, and that it was only meant to be displayed in Westinghouse factories. This seems to contradict the statement in the article. 99.19.69.191 (talk) 22:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Who told Rosie to go home?[edit]

Exactly who told Rosie to return to her ironing board after the war was over? Can you name this person? Did anyone walk into the factory and say "O.K. Rosie, go home now?"

I suggest the article is biased, and written from a somewhat less than objective point-of-view.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.255.66.250 (talk) 06:50, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

The article is historically correct. Read the references for more information. Read this as well: http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.asp Gandydancer (talk) 14:18, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Once the war was over, the women were expected to return home and give up their jobs to the returning men. Those who didn't were eventually laid off (with a few rare exceptions). This was a source of great frustration for women whose husbands had been killed in the war and had no other source of income. At the time, however, gender discrimination in employment was the norm and there wasn't much they could do about it. See the documentary The Life and Times of Rosie the Riveter for a full examination of this issue. Kaldari (talk) 18:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Recent edit[edit]

I have undone a recent edit until I understand the editor's position. Why was the NPR tribute at the time of Doyle's death deleted and why was all mention of Dick deleted? Gandydancer (talk) 12:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I wrote a new article, so no this article does not need to have so much information about the "We Can Do It!" image, per summary style.
  • I removed the docspopuli.org link from the External links because it was already present in the article as a reference.
  • [3][4][5][6] Mary Doyle, 19 years old, was the model for Rockwell's painting. Later she married to become Mary Keefe. Mary Doyle Keefe can be brought into the article with some text about her experience.
  • "Shirley Karp Dick" as Rockwell's model is likely the result of vandalism. Binksternet (talk) 16:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! Please give me a little time to read the information and I will then make another post. Gandydancer (talk) 16:31, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Again, thanks. I've fixed the name, but please give me a little more time for further research. Gandydancer (talk) 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Shirley Karp was introduced by an IP vandal on January 16, 2009. The vandal did not bring new cites, just stole old ones that talked about Geraldine Hoff Doyle, the "We Can Do It!" woman. Then some editor named EwkRocks added more about Karp five minutes later, and continued for 12 more edits. Here are the 13 Karp edits in a row. Unfortunately, Pinkadelica reverted only the EwkRocks vandalism but left the IP vandalism. A second one-two punch from the IP and EwkRocks was this one which added more nonsense, soon massaged into place by an unwitting ChildofMidnight. The fabulous Shirley Karp picked up a Dick with this vandalism on April 13, 2009. From that point forward, three years worth of editors failed to figure out what hit them. Binksternet (talk) 17:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
If anyone is interested in mild scholarly entertainment, search the internet for "Shirley Karp Dick" and you will find all the Wikipedia mirrors (boring) and all the writers who used the vandalized version of this page for their research resource (kind of funny). Among the gullible:
  • Max Hastings (November 1, 2011). Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945, Random House Digital, Inc. What a crock! ...and from a well-known writer.
  • Deedra X. Cooper's "Who was Rosie the Riveter? " on Helium.com (blacklisted site, cannot link)
Wow, lame. Binksternet (talk) 18:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Gandydancer, it looks like you moved on to research other articles. I am itching to get rid of the three-year vandalism, so I will put the article back to where I left it last night, but I will make sure that Norman Rockwell's model is given a fair shake. I will add text regarding her experience. Binksternet (talk) 20:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
OK, that seems fair. It's not so much moving on as that I am very short on time right now and several irons in the fire, etc. I will follow your edits more closely when I have more time. Best, Gandy dancer Gandydancer (talk) 20:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your good work here and congrats on the new article - I gave it 5 stars without hesitation. You are an expert! Gandydancer (talk) 19:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
You're too kind. Thanks for the review! Binksternet (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Veronica Foster - Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl[edit]

I had previously added, to the "See also" section, "Ronnie the Bren Gun Girl - the earlier Canadian equivalent". Someone removed the "earlier", saying he could not independently verify the date. However, links on the Veronica Foster page can easily be followed to photo pages containing dates.

From Rosie the Riveter:

"The term "Rosie the Riveter" was first used in 1942 in a song of the same name written by Redd Evans and John Jacob Loeb."

From Veronica Foster:

"Veronica Foster, popularly known as "Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl", was a Canadian icon representing nearly one million Canadian women who worked in the manufacturing plants that produced munitions and materiel during World War II."

Reference 2: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/war-industry/025010-2014-e.html#ppl9

A typical photo, dated 1941: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_archives/public_mikan/index.php?fuseaction=genitem.displayItem&lang=eng&rec_nbr=3195801&rec_nbr_list=3195801

Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl, as a fully developed public persona, predates the earliest mention of Rosie the Riveter by a year. Don't forget that Canada was in the war two years before the U.S. Heavenlyblue (talk) 03:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)