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(Redirected from Talk:Storm Sanders)

Requested move 6 December 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. I don't see a consensus to move. Nonetheless, recognising that the subject has significant wins under her old name and has also registered her updated name with ITF, let's revisit this when there are new sources establishing her new name as the common name. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 13:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Storm Sanders → Storm Hunter – Per current WTA name and other media coverage. Rovingrobert (talk) 11:17, 6 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Many of the recent sources I'm seeing use "Storm Sanders", for example [1][2][3] What is the evidence that she's now referred to as Storm Hunter? (as an aside, I was expecting to see an article about a weather event when I opened this RM... interesting name )  — Amakuru (talk) 13:06, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Women's sport has been notified of this discussion. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Tennis has been notified of this discussion. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: qld=yes|qld-importance=low|WikiProject Australia has been notified of this discussion. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure on this one She got married only a month ago. Her entire tennis career, and the only reason she's notable, she has been Storm Sanders. I'm surprised the WTA changed her name so quickly but usually that only happens when the player requests a registration name change with the ITF. We don't change names just because a player gets married. GOAT Helen Wills was married multiple times but she was most notable under the name Wills so that's where the article is at. 2022 was a stellar year for Sanders, culminating with a US Open title in September. She's only 28 so I assume she has a couple years left in her where the tournaments will certainly list her as Hunter. Maybe wait till we see those draw sheets but I also have no qualms about moving her early. Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:52, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Former surname as article title

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@Amakuru, Fyunck(click), and Keroks: Hi, using the names of tennis players under which they play on the circuit is standard on English Wikipedia. The name should not be redirected for current tournaments: 2023 Adelaide International 1 + 2 and for the rest of the season. There is probably no other such case. Examples of moves after changing the surname on the circuit: Kozlova → Baindl, Gavrilova → Saville, Melichar → Melichar-Martinez, Jurak → Jurak Schreiber, Allertová → Šátralová. Cheers, Kacir 12:16, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If a notable player plays under a certain name for 10 years, changes it for a year, and then retires, their 10-year notability can't just be thrown away. That may not be the case here but it's not cut and dry. We have the goat Helen Wills under her most notable name, not Helen Wills Moody (under which she played half her career) or Helen Wills Roark. Same with Chris Evert where she married and went be Chris Evert Lloyd and Chris Evert Mill while still playing. It's case by case. I said in the previous discussion that it will likely move soon and that moving it a bit early wasn't going to upset me, but the fact is that there was a recent discussion less than two weeks ago that ended in "no move", and you should have taken note of that before just moving it yourself. Players do sometimes keep their original last name after getting married. Fyunck(click) (talk) 16:54, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the case for players who have already retired (Wills Moody, Evert), nor the case for women who keep their surnames on the circuit after marriage (Plíšková, Svitolina, Vondroušová). Within a few months, the long-standing expectation of the previous surname will not change, but the article's title should reflect the new form of the name in the reliable sources per WP:NAMECHANGES: "If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match" – WTA/ITF/BJK Cup/Tennis Australia Profiles, at present misrepresented as "Storm Sanders", although the profiles contain "Storm Hunter". Kacir 23:18, 4 January 2023 (UTC) / Kacir 23:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article titles go by common name parameters. The Lead first mentions may be different or contain more info than the title. Both Evert and Wills had their names change while they played, just like Sanders, so it's not automatic that wikipedia changes the name, nor should it be. And we certainly don't move a page 2 weeks after a discussion that says not to move it. All that said, in Hunters case, all the tennis organizations are using Hunter now. That usually only happens if the player changes their registration to reflect that. She was not very notable as a person outside of tennis... this isn't Steffi Graf here. While her verified personal accounts at twitter, instagram, and facebook, still say Sanders as the link, she has mentioned in all of them she now goes by Storm Hunter. I think we should change it to Hunter. But this needs consensus after the last move nogo. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Evert and Wills Moody had their names change while they played, when Wikipedia didn't exist, so the project didn't have to respond during their careers. Years of practice among active tennis players, on the other hand, shows that the article's title corresponds to their name on the circuits, and it's automatic that Wikipedia changes the name. Hunter is probably first exception in many years. WP:REQMOVE is not representative, with only three editors and only one who was clearly opposed. Kacir 06:30, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is absolutely not automatic, whatever you think. It may go unopposed, and usually does. Jimmy Connors was listed as James Connors but informally always went by Jimmy. His article uses the informal for the title but the formal for the first words of the lead. And player names on the circuit are almost always spelled in English with no diacritics per ITF standards, but the articles use the foreign spelling per consensus. There are lots of idioms like that. Sometimes we don't have an authoritative source that the player has changed ther name, except in the press's mind, so we have to be careful. I never heard anything except "Patrick Rafter" when he played but now he goes by Pat, and Wikipedia decided to change to Pat also. But tennis articles will usually titled under the name the player is most notable for. In Sanders/Hunter case it's a wash, but if Serena Williams were to change her name the article title won't. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The approach of the English Wikipedia is quite obvious for active tennis players, even including a shortened form Stan Wawrinka in accordance with the ATP/ITF Profile. I have not seen any exception in recent years. Diacritics is another matter. Kacir 10:03, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
She's playing as Storm Hunter at the French Open. Significant enough for a change? 115.70.162.55 (talk) 07:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 June 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerium (talk) 16:03, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Storm Sanders → Storm Hunter – Probably time now to make the move per WP:NAMECHANGES: If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. Reliable sources include WTA, ITF, Guardian, CNN, ABC (Aus). Much harder to find reliable sources using "Sanders" from the last few months. Let's make Google scrape the right name. Pinging @Rovingrobert, Amakuru, Fyunck(click), and Kacir. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 14:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, one certainly doesn’t change their name to Hrunčáková for marketability reasons. Rovingrobert (talk) 10:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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