Talk:Tokin (headwear)
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Requested move 4 May 2017
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED. (non-admin closure) TheSandDoctor (talk) 01:45, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
– This reverts the article back to the base name title it had since it was created in 2007 until In ictu oculi moved it without discussion or explanation (much less an RM proposal) on March 30, 2017[1] after unilaterally deciding there is no primary topic for "Tokin" and putting a dab page he created at the base name. The dab page also includes a link to a newly created stub article he created about an obscure Soviet scientist named Boris P. Tokin. Page view stats indicate the original use of Tokin on WP remains the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for Tokin [2]. Therefore the original move was unjustified and needs to be reverted. В²C ☎ 21:29, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
- Support ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:54, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
- Tentative oppose I don't see any evidence that the headgear is less obscure than the scientist: since it was created in 2007 the headgear article has been a stub with zero references. It is on two big templates which boost its traffic; I'm not sure if any Wikipedia articles link to it (other than via the templates). The DAB does not have just two pages, it has several others. Google books gives roughly similar matches for NEC Tokin, Boris P. Tokin, and tokin (headwear) (as well as tokin'). jnestorius(talk) 13:33, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Support. Page views suggest this is easily the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain t/c 15:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)- @Cuchullain: No they don't, even excluding shogi. jnestorius(talk) 16:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Just because tokin is used to refer to one obscure historical Japanese form of Mercury silvering doesn't mean you can count all Mercury silvering page views as results for tokin. We're looking for likely destinations for anyone searching with "tokin", and what those page view counts are. Most if not all Egnlish sources for NEC Tokin use "NEC Tokin" exclusively, not "Tokin", not even for repeated references in an article[3], so Tokin alone is also unlikely to be used to search for that article. Just in case, the dab page is listed for other uses and anyone looking for the company can still get to it. --В²C ☎ 17:37, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- @Cuchullain: No they don't, even excluding shogi. jnestorius(talk) 16:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm not sure any of them besides Boris P. Tokin would typically be sought just by "Tokin". Maybe NEC Tokin, but certainly not Mount Misumi[4] or Mercury silvering.--Cúchullain t/c 18:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Stop press: NEC Tokin last month was renamed Tokin Corporation; I've moved the article to the new name. jnestorius(talk) 22:40, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- BTW I messed up the pageviews URL above; corrected here. headgear is about double NEC, but there's also the shogi promoted-pawn, which it turns out was what motivated In ictu oculi to move the page. Shogi is 40x more common than headgear, but the promoted-pawn is only a small component of the shogi article. How, then, to weigh promoted-pawn relative to headgear? It seems we can't go by pageviews. So go by external sources or internal links; neither favour headgear. jnestorius(talk) 23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Striking my support due to the renaming of NEC Tokin to Tokin Corporation; the new name makes it ambiguous.--Cúchullain t/c 15:31, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- BTW I messed up the pageviews URL above; corrected here. headgear is about double NEC, but there's also the shogi promoted-pawn, which it turns out was what motivated In ictu oculi to move the page. Shogi is 40x more common than headgear, but the promoted-pawn is only a small component of the shogi article. How, then, to weigh promoted-pawn relative to headgear? It seems we can't go by pageviews. So go by external sources or internal links; neither favour headgear. jnestorius(talk) 23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Stop press: NEC Tokin last month was renamed Tokin Corporation; I've moved the article to the new name. jnestorius(talk) 22:40, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm not sure any of them besides Boris P. Tokin would typically be sought just by "Tokin". Maybe NEC Tokin, but certainly not Mount Misumi[4] or Mercury silvering.--Cúchullain t/c 18:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- Wikipedia articles with "tokin" in the text
Special:Search/"NEC Tokin" -football gives 9 matches.
| Meaning | Article count | Examples |
|---|---|---|
| shogi promoted pawn | 15 | Micro shogi, Double Wing Attack, Utaibito Hane |
| Boris Tokin | 2 | Art belongs to the people (Leningrad, 1977), Phytoncide |
| headgear | 1 | Tengu |
| gilt | 1 | List of Cultural Properties of Japan - sculptures (Kyōto) |
References
- Oppose: Considering Tokin Corporation (and note that WP:NCCORP might suggest dropping the "Corporation" for that), Mount Tokin, Tokin', the promoted pawn, the scientist, and mercury gilding, there does not seem to be a primary topic. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:20, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose. I see no primary topic. Tokin (headwear) is four lines long, and unsourced. Tokin Corporation will be called "Tokin" in everyday usage (and its website is www.tokin.com). The Russian article on Boris P. Tokin is four pages long. Narky Blert (talk) 17:56, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose as nom! The renaming of the corporation to Tokin changes everything. --В²C ☎ 01:02, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Appearance of yamabushi
[edit]
There is the description of yamabushi in the article yamabushi in the World Encyclopedia (世界大百科事典) published by Heibonsha, which is cited in the Kotobank page (See HERE). It says:
鈴懸（すずかけ）を着，結袈裟（ゆいげさ）を掛け，頭に斑蓋や兜巾（ときん）(頭巾)，...，足に脚絆を着けて...，笈（おい）と肩箱を背負い，腕にいらたか念珠をわがね，手に金剛杖と錫杖（しやくじよう）を持って法螺（ほら）貝を吹くという山伏の服装は，このころからはじまった(図)。
— from the article yamabushi in the World Encyclopedia by Heibonsha
This means roughly:
(Yamabushi) wear suzukake, yuigesa (in their body), tokin on head, ... , kyahan at legs, ... , hold oi and katabako on their back, iratachi nenju in arm, kongōjaku and shakujō in hand, and blow horagai... The clothes of yamabushi in this style have started in around this period.
This website page is clearly shown as the Reference/Source in my edit. I have also added the image shown at the upper right-hand in the article page, which depicts the appearance of yamabushi. -- Flora fon Esth (talk) 18:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Flora fon Esth: thank you for adding sources; but is there a description of what these items of clothing or objects (that yamabushi wear) actually are? "tokin, suzukake, yuigesa, horagai, kyahan, oi, katabako, irataka nenju and shakujō" are mentioned, but there's no explanation of what these items are. Kyahan has an article link, so you could click that for a description, but the others are unexplained.--Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 12:20, 10 June 2022 (UTC)