Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Notice board/Archive 2

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Action items

LGBT articles up for collaboration votes

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion

Since the issues come up fairly often at CFD, with sometimes wildly different decision, there is now a posted policy at Wikipedia:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion (current)

Wikipedia:Proposed deletion (current)

Articles with disputes

There is quite a debate going on over at Homophobia - unfortunately, it appears that I'm the only person arguing there who doesn't think that disapproval of LGBT people is rational.Yonmei 19:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
This discussion has now degraded partly into an editor spewing homophobic filth (go figure) in order to make some sort of moral argument against homosexuality (an argument that, no matter what position it takes, has no place on Wikipedia). He even goes so far as to make the tired (yet still infuriating) 'homosexuality-pedophilia' comparison. The others on the page seem to be unable to understand why homophobes can be classified as bigots. CaveatLectorTalk 17:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Mychal F. Judge. An anonymous editor (with an apparent history of objecting to positive LGBT material on Wiki) objects to categorizing Father Mychal as "LGBT person from the United States". Yonmei 20:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Update: Anon editor has carried objection to Father Judge as a member of category LGBT rights activists, despite Father Judge's standing as a long-time member of Dignity. Yonmei 00:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Caravaggio. Ongoing discussion as to whether references to the painter's ambiguous sexuality should be included to the article or not. User:Zefrog, 00:44, 25 September 2006 (GMT)
  • Lion. Rudimentary discussion of same sex relations in lions is being distorted through misuse of unrelated material (on primates) imposed by editor branding any attempts to stick to documented observations as "activist". Haiduc 02:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Henri Nouwen. A number of people seem determined to erase any mention of Nouwen's homosexuality, now to the extent of section-blanking vandalism. --Chips Critic 20:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Matthew Shepard. User:SpinyNorman continues to contest the meaning of "hate-crime". -- Samuel Wantman 08:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Morrissey: discussion of whether it is reasonable to include a section on Morrissey's homosexuality. David | Talk 20:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Homosexuality and transgender some people wish to merge this and probably other articles in one all-encompassing article about the sexuality of transpeople, despite the fact that this particular article has little to do with the topic; see also what links there and why. Reason is probably the less-than-desireable on-goings at Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence theory which has been heavily edited, but that seems to be not exactly a good reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. -- John Smythe 08:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Anon is attempting to politicize American Bison. Haiduc 12:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Another gay militant "struggling" to expunge any connection between pederasty and his notion of GLBT. Has been toying with the template [[Template:LGBT]] as well as with the article. Haiduc 11:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Er, Haiduc, you are given extraordinarily free rein to push an idiosyncratic, non-common usage definition of your pet term in a wildly overgrown series of articles. Sniping about "gay militants" does not become you. DanBDanD 11:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • *Talk:Voice feminization: Whether women born with a female body, as opposed to transwoman, should be called "ciswomen" in the article, or plain "women". Both sides allege that one use is insulting. -- AlexR 20:02, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
AlexR is correct that there is a dispute. I would like to add that up until very recently when AlexR added it to cisgender a search on google of ciswoman produced a find for only Voice feminization or conversations related to Voice Feminization which is why the description toggles between ciswoman and woman. FemVoice 21:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Again, sexual cleansing has lapped up to the shores of Category:Pederasty and a person who would like it to not have anything to do with Category:LGBT keeps on deleting it from its parent category. Haiduc 03:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Please keep an eye on Judy Garland, a WP:GA. It seems an anon doesn't like the fact that she is linked to gay rights. Davodd 19:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Homophobia -- yet another dispute over the definition of the term. Exploding Boy 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Transgender and Talk:Homosexuality and transgender - There's some dispute over the proper use of the term "homosexual" when referring to transpeople and their relationships. - AdelaMae (talk - contribs) 07:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
  • The Bible and homosexuality - someone (their username is a load of numbers) is trying to remove the Jehu + Jehonadab section. horseboy 13:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I must say I agree with that person - the Jehu + Jehonadab section is nothing but silly, second-hand speculation by a non-notable writer. That article needs work! DanBDanD 01:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Argument occuring in relation to bisexual allegations and picture in Tyrone Power's article- comments appreciated at Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-03-03_Tyrone_Power. Arniep 16:06, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Adam Yosef and Peter Tatchell. Dispute over how to describe Yosef's January 2006 column for Desi Express attacking Tatchell. David | Talk 20:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Can someone urgently revert Irishpunktom's recent edit to Peter Tatchell? It is unsourced, POV, irrelevant, mis-spelled and provably factually incorrect. David | Talk 16:13, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Lee LaHaye has recently become a POV mess.
    • I don't want anything. It is related to the term by its very nature. You seem to believe the links about chest hair and the like such as sexual orientation are more relevant, but you are in fact trying to hide the illicit and illegal activities connected to the Twink subculture. 17:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Note that has since been blocked 48 hours for vandalism. David | Talk 17:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Children Of Lesbians And Gays Everywhere Should COLAGE be listed under Category:LGBT organizations? Weigh in. Dave 19:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
    Or should category be restricted to groups that are for LGBT people rather than their supporters? Grace Note 02:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
    Children of LGBT people are activists on their own behalf as well as on behalf of their parents. Wether children of LGBT people are straight or LGBT they identify as queer. They don't consider themselves supporters but part of the LGBT 'family'. Listing COLAGE isn't an expansion of Category:LGBT organizations but placing COLAGE in its proper place. -- [[User:Steamedpenguin|SteamedPenguin]] 17:00, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
    I agree that COLAGE should be in Category:LGBT organizations. As a LGBT Mom & Grandmom I know that these kids grew up in & consider themselves part of the LGBT Community. There lives are coloured by the same issues of social stigma, attackes from fundamentalist zealots, etc. If looking for this topic I would check under LGBT first & expect to find it there. I don't see it as any different than PFLAG CyntWorkStuff 18:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Heterophobia - An anon user is repeatedly inserting POV claims that heterophobia is rampant among "gynosupremacist" lesbians. Bearcat 03:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Cisgender is a kind of obscure term that's fairly important to trans issues. The problem is that there aren't many good references online, and it's hard to find them without access to a good database or queer studies journals. There's somebody threatening to AfD it because of the lack of Google hits, even though there are a few good references already named on the page. Help out with some academic references, maybe? Dave 02:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Requests for comment

  • GayFest - article about Bucharest's annual LGBT pride festival. It is currently undergoing peer review and I would like some tips and suggestions on how to bring it up to FA status. Flag of Europe.svgFlag of Romania.svg Ronline 11:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Lion: Lion same-sex relations - Should zoological studies discussing frequent homosexual interactions among male and female lion pairs be included in the article? Should the person contributing the material be charged with finding opposing viewpoints? 00:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people - Is one book which asserts a historian's own personal interpretation of historical documents a sufficient source to list someone as LGBT, when no other source is known to share that view?
  • Wikipedia:Portal/Proposals#Portal:LGBT - Is a portal needed? Current consensus is pointing toward no.
  • Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies - questions about LGBT categorization
  • Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Wikipedia:Conservative_notice_board The Conservative notice board was deleted after modelling itself after this notice board. There is a move to bar AfD and CfD postings from this page. -- Samuel Wantman 06:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Autogynephilia#"Two Type Theory of Transsexuality" Debate over whether one or all theories about the causes of transgender and transsexualism need(s) its/their own article has escalated - a neutral third opinion is desperately needed, preferably before this moves into article space.
  • Please refer to Talk:List of gay slang words and phrases#Future of the gay slang list - Should this be merged back into gay slang and if so or if not, how can we make it comply with WP:V and WP:NOR? Also, should the list in some form be moved to Wiktionary or Wikibooks since WP is not a dictionary or slang usage guide (WP:NOT). - Davodd 18:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Bill Graham - Should a biographical article acknowledge the existence of longstanding rumours about a public figure's sexual orientation? Nobody thinks we should treat the rumours as true — the dispute is about whether WP should even acknowledge that such rumours exist.
  • Talk:Gay rights has some discussion as to whether or not it is appropriate to incorporate the rainbow flag into LGBT-related pages.
  • Chickenhawk (sexuality) The whole article seems to be one long diatribe against age-disparate homosexuality, with every homophobic cliche thrown in.
    • I just did some serious pruning. It is barely more than a stub now. -Seth Mahoney 22:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Whats the opposite term? For twinks that fancy old guys? (Old as in "older", e.g. 40ish) horseboy 18:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:Barbara Amesbury: If a transwoman was already notable before her transition, how can we handle her competing desires to retain credit for public accomplishments dating from before her transition, while simultaneously not being outed as a transwoman against her will?
  • Peppermint Patty and its Talk page: Trouble dealing with the characterization of Peppermint Patty's relationship with Marcy.
  • Pederasty in the modern world; Material of long standing broken out of overlong Pederasty article and set up in its own article is challenged by a user. It would be good to have some people familiar with the topic look over things to make sure that one bias is not replaced by another bias. In particular there is disagreement over integrating conflicting definitions, one more general and another more restrictive.
  • How does one go about re-instating Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Queerspawn? While the entry needs some work the arguments made to delete it are sparse at best. The term 'queerspawn' might grate on some people but that doesn't make it 'something made up in school one day'. It's been cited in several media outlets and is used by more and more children of LGBT people as self-identification. Also, just because straights haven't heard of the word doesn't mean it doesn't exist. -- [[User:Steamedpenguin|SteamedPenguin]] 03:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
    • You can still find the article on the web in places like this but I think it would have to be built up significantly beforehand, I would not simply re-instate as it was since it will get deleted again and will only piss people off. Haiduc 04:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I have a copy of the article so I am not worried about that. I know enough to not get into a revert war. Getting into a tug of war will bring out trolls, make the process more complex and make it take a longer time. I am more interested in re-writing the article so it is more encyclopediacal, which IMHO was the biggest shortcoming, as well as address some of the secondary complaints of it being a neologism. -- [[User:Steamedpenguin|SteamedPenguin]] 04:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Put it up on a private subpage, dump in all the material and references you have dug up to substantiate this as a notable topic, and I'll try to help as much as I can (I just learned of this term today, so. . . ). Haiduc 05:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The articles; Choice and sexual orientation and Biology and sexual orientation both have little to no details on bisexuality - which seems to be because of lack of research, which is fair enough. But in how they are written, and because of this lack of research, the two articles seem to perpetuate a bipolar imagining of sexuality - homo or hetero. This needs to be addressed, is there a better way than disclaimers recognising that research focus almost solely on hetero or homo-sexual self identified persons?

Additionally, there are arguments that suggest more liberal attitudes in the contemporary western world promote, or at least support, more 'exploration of personal sexualities' (I'll come back with a reference for that once I find it). Neither article makes any note of how shifts in attitudes towards sexuality, over time and between cultures/societies, may have affected chosen sexual orientation, where would be the best place to put this - an article in its own? --Cooper-42 12:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Templates for deletion

None at this time.

Requested moves

None at this time.

Ongoing discussions

Note: Please link to discussions on other pages. You can start discussions on the talk page.

Recent decisions

Categories for deletion

Articles for deletion

See also archives: 2005

Templates for deletion

Resolved disputes

  • Jami A number of editors, who all share a common characteristic, are attempting to prevent proper documentation of pederastic themes in the thought and opus of this Persian writer and mystic in particular, and - in general - of any and all Persian artists whose opus reflects in some way the cultural realities of the pederastic tradition in pre-modern Persia. Modern mainstream scholarship, both Western and Iranian is summarily dismissed as "opinion," with no material presented to argue against the citations or against the clearly pederastic topos of the artist's works cited. Haiduc 01:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Pederasty - user with opinions at work on the article, plus has ethnic bias for protecting Persians ancestors from unseemly associations. Haiduc 05:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Saint John Bosco Several historians have discussed Giovanni Bosco's work with boys as a manifestation of his sublimated homoerotic inclinations. The matter has been discussed on the talk page of the article and a moderated version of the original inclusion has been largely agreed to by one other user, but a spoiler resists any analysis: "Take it elsewhere, but it doesn't belong on this page." Haiduc 23:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Twink (gay slang): 68.110 has turned his attention to this article which he wants linked to Child grooming and Ephebophilia (attraction to post-pubescent adolescents). He seems determined to revert war over it. David | Talk 17:19, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell This article included a proportionate discussion of widely accepted research documenting evidence indicating the founder of the Boy Scouts to have been a repressed homosexual with a distinct - but chaste - interest in boys. The section had been there for about one year, supported by several editors. Recently, a number of brand new accounts, all with ostensible links to the Boy Scouts of America, an organization with a declared anti-homosexual agenda, have descended on all articles in the Wikipedia involving Scouting and are re-fshioning them to their liking. They have strong-armed the removal and banishment of the embarrassing information about their founder to a page dedicated to the "review" of the authoritative biography of Baden-Powell, leaving in the article a misleading paragraph as a link to that "review". It is of note that none of the BSA contributors to the discussion have read the book, while the two older editors supporting the inclusion of the information have read it. Haiduc 21:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Pederasty in Ancient Greece User with peculiar view of Greek practices ("You need read Phaedrus and Symposium in original Greek, there is NOTHING homosexual in those works. And you talk of chaste pederasty are you crazy?") keeps slapping "Disputed" tag on article. Haiduc 01:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Talk:North American Man/Boy Love Association Poll: Should the article North American Man/Boy Love Association be listed under Category:LGBT organizations? Vote here. Homey 22:17, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
    • I might remind everyone to vote with their mind and not just knee-jerk with a "no" because the idea of pedophilia disgusts you. The question is whether NAMBLA is a homosexual organization. NAMBLA is an organization which promotes sex between males, that is, homosexual sex, and is composed of gay pedophiles. // paroxysm (n) 22:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
      • The tone of the debate can be judged by the reference by one extreme contributor to "organised faggotry"!!! FearÉIREANNMap of Ireland's capitals.png\(caint) 23:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
    This article is currently under mediation. —Guanaco 00:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Some more homophobia in Talk:NAMBLA. Seems to be coming to a consensus, but worth keeping an eye on… — OwenBlacker 14:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Homoerotic art is being arbitrarily redefined as hetero-erotic and deleted from articles on Köçek and Pederasty. Also, the Peter Lamborn Wilson article has just been categorized in Category:Pedophilia. All of these issues relate to age-structured homosexuality. Haiduc 22:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Pederasty in the modern world Trying to avoid a tug of war with another editor. A third (or fourth or fifth) opinion would be very welcome. Haiduc 01:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Batman again. A motivated user ("the gay thing is ofending" and "don't spoil this one for us") first deleted all references to a gay reading of the comic, and then changed tack and went on a full scale "pedophilia" assault. He has belabored the article beyond recognition at his point, perhaps to make reverts awkward. Haiduc 04:40, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Is Westboro Baptist Church a "cult"? Guanaco 03:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Why do you ask? Did it say that in the article at some point? I don't think it is ever appropriate for a Wikipedia article to state, "X is a cult," since cult has become an inherently negative term. It's certainly legitimate to say, "Group A claims that X is a cult," though. Is there a specific part of the WBC article that needs attention? - AdelaMae (talk - contribs) 02:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Recent articles

December 2006

November 2006

September 2006

August 2006

July 2006

June 2006

  • Homosexual transsexual Crappiest article I have seen in quite a while, and very, very, very POV into the bargain. Tried some cleanup, but opposed deletion of Autogynephilia by the main author, and don't want this to become anything personal. -- John Smythe 18:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm just complexly confused and became more so by reading the article. What does a person's gender identity have to do with their affectional preference? Maybe I missed something? CyntWorkStuff 19:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

April 2006

  • Wikipedia:Wikiproject LGBT studies has been started to focus on specific LGBT/Queer-topic articles of academic interest. Please feel free to join in on this project. Our goals: the LGBT articles in this project will be feature articles when we are through with them. Also, we will identify information that may be more appropriate in other Wikimedia projects (Textbooks, lists of Quotes) in order to beef up the academic quality of Wikimedia LGBTQI offerings. Davodd 17:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

March 2006

  • Pro-gay slogans and symbols--needs expansion (see talk page and my edit summary on the page), should be linked to in the see also section of several articles. I will do some of them, but I might miss some. Please help. The Ungovernable Force 07:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

January 2006

October 2005

September 2005

Articles needing work

Stubs can be found at Category:LGBT stubs and Category:LGBT rights activist stubs.

  • Axel and Eigil Axgil plenty of room for expansion; see source website linked from the article SP-KP 23:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • History of lesbianism needs serious attention from a knowledgeable person with good research and writing skills. It now looks like a lot of un-cited original research and unsupported POV with a generally poor organizational structure. Some have added good info, but much more needs to be done. Ande B 02:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
  • LGBT rights in Iran, Homosexuality in Iran(merged), and Transsexuality in Iran - first two require copyediting and sources; last two require sigificant expansion. SouthernComfort 15:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Clothing laws by country could use some information about cross-dressing laws around the world. -- Beland 22:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Social aspects of clothing has a new section, "Sexual orientation" in which I have attempted to describe how clothing is used to send social signals related to sexual orientation. It could use some peer review. -- Beland 22:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • TransgenderI already listed the article on Wikipedia:Cleanup#April 8,2006; forgot to list it here, too. Article is a complete mess. In my opinion there should be a few cuts - this article cannot replace all the other articles in the WP that deal with transgender issues, and it sure looks like it tries at the moment, making it such a mess. -- AlexR 14:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Lesbian and bisexual celebrities: I came across this on the New Pages page today. Is this a fork? Because I doubt a list like this hasn't been created before, but I wouldn't know where to look. --Calton | Talk 05:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
    • It must be a fork. I'm guessing it was a deleted page (because none of the information is sourced) but under a different name. Or maybe it's from a different site. I can't prove it, because I can't read deleted content. I can't find anything on google either. Check out the creator though. ~a (usertalkcontribs) 05:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Gay rights in the Isle of Man Is a stub, but contains no real information on the topic of Gay Rights. The bulk of the paragraph is refering to sexual grooming of minors (of any gender), which has nothing to do with LGBT issues, rather child sexuality/pedaphile issues. Either needs a lot of work or an Afd. --Monotonehell 13:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


Missing articles

for discussion on the above topics, see Wikipedia talk:LGBT notice board/Archive 2#Missing Articles

See also: Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social Sciences and Philosophy#Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender

Missing categories

Active Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues

There is a userbox available for users interested in LGBT issues, which links to this noticeboard:

Gay flag.svg This user is interested in LGBT issues.

Please feel free to put this on your userpage by adding {{User:UBX/LGBTinterest}}.

  1. Adam
  2. AdelaMae
  3. AlexR
  4. Ali-oops
  5. Ambi
  6. Arcuras
  7. Axon
  8. Bastique
  9. Bearcat
  10. Beland
  11. Bluegreen
  12. Catamorphism
  13. CaveatLector
  14. CDThieme
  15. Chesaguy
  17. DanaJohnson
  18. Darkcore
  19. Davodd
  20. Dave
  21. Dave|(not the above Dave though)
  22. Eric
  23. Essjay
  24. Evolauxia
  25. Exploding Boy
  26. Faya
  27. FCYTravis
  28. Fishhead64
  29. Francs2000
  30. Fys
  31. Ganymead
  32. Gay Cdn
  33. Ground Zero
  34. Groyn88
  35. Guanaco
  36. Haiduc
  37. Haunti
  38. horseboy
  39. Hyacinth
  40. Jacqui M Schedler (and broader issues of sexuality too)
  41. Jeffpw
  42. Jonathunder (An administrator willing to help out when needed)
  43. Julien Deveraux
  44. Krugs
  45. Larrybob
  46. Lyo
  47. Megan1967
  48. MichaelCaricofe
  49. Mike H
  50. MikeX
  51. Mistress Selina Kyle blocked indefinitely
  52. Moncrief
  53. Montréalais
  54. nathanrdotcom
  55. Nicholas Turnbull
  56. OwenBlacker
  57. Pacian
  58. Chips_Critic
  59. Rainmonger
  60. Robby
  61. Romeo Bravo =/\=
  62. Rugadh
  63. Samaritan
  64. Samuel Wantman (An administrator willing to help out when needed)
  65. Seth Mahoney
  66. Skud
  67. S.P.Daly
  68. Spinboy
  69. Tdempsey
  70. TDLewis
  71. Tobyox
  72. TreyHarris
  73. Veratien
  74. Zefrog
  75. he jin works at the International Gay/Lesbian Info.centre and Archive, message for any ref.
  76. Gekedo

Relevant user conduct disputes

See also