Wikipedia talk:WikiProject British and Irish hills/Archive 2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Mendip Hills FAC

Can I ask for your expert view of Mendip Hills. I have now put it up as a Featured Article Candidate & comments, support or opposition is being recorded at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mendip Hills.— Rod talk 10:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Irish Mountain Ranges

Hi everyone, I've just joined the project. I'd like to expand on a lot of the Irish mountain articles, especially the Cork and Kerry ones, which I have the most experience of. However, one big problem is that a lot of the mountain ranges in this area don't seem to have "official" names in the books and maps I've read, especially in Kerry. It would be very handy to be able to categorise these mountains in separate mountain ranges rather than listing them individually, like they're listed on wikipedia at the moment. Any suggestions as to how I could organise them in a more logical way? Maybe name the mountain range after its most prominent mountain, or by locality? Andrewharrington2003 12:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC) divides the island into "areas", which may be about the size you were thinking of. Creating new names for areas would probably fall foul of the original research policy, but any name already in use in one or more reputable sources is up for grabs. --Stemonitis 14:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that site divides them up into pretty sensible categories. I think I'll keep it easy and follow their system. Thanks Stemonitis! Andrewharrington2003 13:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Categorisation of Irish peaks

Speaking of the Emerald Isle, the categorisation scheme for those hills seems a little chaotic. Separate categories exist for the Hewitts of Northern Ireland and the Marilyns of Northern Ireland (within the Hewitts of Ireland and the Marilyns of Ireland, respectively), but with no sister categories for the peaks in the Republic. Should the Northern Ireland categories be removed from the general Ireland categories to allow the latter to be Republic-specific, or should new Republic-specific categories be created under the general island-wide categories (or is it all fine just as it is)? Secondly, parallel systems of counties and provinces exists, so that alongside Category:Mountains of Cork, Category:Mountains of Kerry, etc., we have Category:Mountains and hills of Leinster, Category:Mountains and hills of Munster and Category:Mountains and hills of Connacht. Given that Category:Mountains and hills of Ulster (the only one which could have encompassed more than a simple subgroup of counties within either Category:Mountains of the Republic of Ireland or Category:Mountains and hills of Northern Ireland; see Ulster) does not exist, does it make any sense to retain these? Alternatively, should we create a Category:Mountains and hills of Ulster to include all the counties of Northern Ireland along with Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan in the Republic (and would this leave us open to charges of terminological bias, with "Ulster" sometimes being synonymous with "Northern Ireland")? I would advocate deleting the provincial categories, but I'd like to hear the opinions of others first. --Stemonitis 10:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

See two relevant CFDs
-BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Ben Bulben re-qualification.

Recently, the article Ben Bulben's stub template was removed. Could someone from this project re-qualify this article. Thanks! -Billy227 13:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Could I be a member?

I;m Billy227. I am the most heavily involved in editing the Ben Bulben article, which i spart of this project, I was just wondering if I could become a member of the project. Feel free to leave any messages on my talk page.

-19:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Certainly; there are no membership criteria. Anyone can put his/her name on the list, and even that is not a pre-requisite for joining in, as you have already done. Welcome! --Stemonitis 06:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


Following a personal request from Billy227, I have moved the BIhills userbox on my userpage to its own page, so that anyone can transclude it onto their own pages. Adding {{:User:Stemonitis/BIhills}} to a page should do the trick. --Stemonitis 06:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Merging Lists (again)

I've created a new merged List of Hewitts and Nuttalls in England, similar to the List of Hewitts and Nuttalls in Wales. Assuming no-one objects, I intend to use this to replace List of Hewitts in England and List of Nuttalls in England (by making them redirect to the new list). I haven't yet added pictures (as on the Welsh list), but I will do unless anyone beats me to it.

I'm not completely convinced by the grouping into regions (which I've copied from the Nuttalls' book which uses Wainwright's scheme for the Lakes). For one thing, the South Lakes area is very very large — perhaps it should be split at the Wrynose pass; maybe at Esk Hause too. Another oddity is that the border between the E & W Pennine areas doesn't follow the obvious line — Viewing Hill, for example, is in the W area despite topographically being the end of a ridge from Burnhope Seat.

Finally, I'm not sure about the region names and grouping of the regions into sections. Is the Peak District part of the Pennines, for example? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ras52 (talkcontribs) 23:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

Ben Bulben

Ben Bulben has now ungone a large expansion. I was wondering if someone could check if it was still classifiable as start class or if it could now be classed as being higher on the scale. Thanks! -Billy227 21:05, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Mendip Hills (again)

Mendip Hills is up as a FA candidate (again) at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mendip Hills & hasn't got enough support yet & is likely to run out of time soon - as it did last time. If you have a few moments to spare could any of you take a look & add any comments. Thanks — Rod talk 09:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks now achieved.— Rod talk 12:04, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Wainwright Progress Report and a call for Photos

First the good news. Unless I missed one when I checked through last night, then all 214 have what in BIHILLS terms at least is a full article. (ie divided into sections, with an infobox and references and at least telling the reader where it is, what it looks like, how you get up it and what you can see from the top.)

Not to say there isn't a huge amount to be done still, because there is. One of the more obvious deficiencies is that 60-odd have no picture. So if you have a fair use photo of any of the following, even if its only the summit cairn on a wet day, then pop it into the infobox. If David Bailey comes up with one later, we can always swap it.

Wainwrights Missing Photos:-

Book 1 Birkhouse Moor, Dollywaggon Pike, Gowbarrow Fell, Hart Crag, Hart Side, Hartsop above How, High Hartsop Dodd, Middle Dodd, Nab Scar, Raise, Sfeffield Pike, Stone Arthur.

Book 2 Arthurs Pike, Beda Fell, Bonscale Pike, Brock Crags, Froswick, Grey Crag, Hartsop Dodd, High Raise (FE), Kentmere Pike, Loadpot Hill, Mardale Ill Bell, Rampsgill Head, Sallows, Selside Pike, Steel Knotts, Tarn Crag (FE), Wether Hill.

Book 3 Armboth Fell, Blea Rigg, Calf Crag, Gibson Knott, Sergeant Man, Steel Fell, Ullscarf.

Book 4 Green Crag, Rossett Pike, Wetherlam.

Book 5 Great Calva, Lonscale Fell, Mungrisdale Common, Souther Fell

Book 6 Broom Fell, Graystones, Ling Fell, Lord's Seat, Outerside, Sail, Sale Fell, Wandope, Whinlatter, Whiteless Pike.

Book 7 Brandreth, Burnbank Fell, Caw Fell, Crag Fell, Fellbarrow, Gavel Fell, Grike, Haycock, Hen Comb, Lank Rigg, Middle Fell, Red Pike (Wasdale), Scoat Fell. Bobble Hat 12:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

For USian mountains, I've had very good luck going to and searching for Creative Commons licensed photos. You can upload them (6 per hour) to Commons using the flickr upload bot at If you need help, let me know.
A quick flickr search yielded:
I'm sure you can find more. Good luck! hike395 04:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I have reasonable amount of high-resolution Wainwright summit photos of 'my own'. I've added a few of them today and will try to add those for the missing Wainwrights asap. Just not sure if I should replace existing info box photos if I believe mine are more appropriate? I've actually done this for Whiteside with a near identical digital shot of much higher resolution. Nks487 22:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to upload your own photos where you think they are better than the ones we already have. One caveat I'd add is that higher resolution isn't necessarily better. Take, for example, the picture in the infobox on Tryfan. It's quite dated (it was taken in 1969) and is not particularly high resolution. But when I uploaded it to wikipedia from geograph, I passed over quite a lot of more recent, higher resolution, more colourful pictures in choosing it. Why? Because, to me at least, the view of the east buttress of Tryfan as it comes into sight as you drive west along the A5 just beyond Capel Curig is one of the most iconic mountain views in Wales, and the photo of the sun catching the snow on the summit at dawn on a November morning seem to capture that view wonderfully. — ras52 10:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Island Infoboxes

I have been adding Scottish island Infoboxes to existing pages (as well as creating new pages). Some island pages double as pages for the island high point and already have a Mountain Infobox. Putting an unmodified, second infobox looks very unbalanced, particularly for stubs (which these pages seem to be). I have tried putting the (smaller) mountain infobox in a left aligned, containing table. Please have a look at two examples: Ailsa Craig and Barra Head and let me know what you think. I hope both projects can co-exist. Finavon 20:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

See discussion at Talk:Ailsa Craig. Finavon 00:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't see the point in putting a mountain infobox on an article that isn't a mountain article. It would be preferable to create articles on the mountain or hill Lurker (said · done) 17:42, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes they have come the other way round - the mtn infobox was there before the Scottish Island info box was even created. I would want the agreement of this project before removing a mountain infobox. Finavon 19:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Changing "Listing" row of {{Infobox Mountain}}

There's currently a discussion of how to globalize the "Listing" row of {{Infobox Mountain}}. The discussion is happening at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Mountains#Lists in Infobox. Given that this row is mostly used by this WikiProject, we wanted to make sure that you were alerted to this discussion, and invite you to participate. Thanks! hike395 13:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Marilyns and Corbetts

Project members might be in interested in my proposal to use colour on the four Scottish Marilyns lists (see Talk:List of Marilyns in the Southern Highlands) and then to merge the List of Corbetts into the Scottish Marilyns lists (see Talk:List of Corbetts. — ras52 13:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

This is now complete. Comments and criticisms welcome! — ras52 00:18, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Defaultsort, or sort under "The"?

Should mountains and hills which have name "The Xyz" be given {{DEFAULTSORT:xyz}} so that in categories etc they are listed under the significant word, rather than under "The" (in the same way that Alfred Wainwright files under "W" rather than "A")? I've updated a page on a local hill The Chevin to this effect, so that in Category:Wharfedale it files under "C" (and noted that someone had already specified this filing for Category:Mountains and hills of Yorkshire). Where would readers expect to find "The Cobbler" or "The Nab"? I'm used to ignoring "The" when looking for anything in alphabetical lists: should mountains and hills be an exception? PamD 10:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm in favour of using {{DEFAULTSORT|xyz}}. I think I'd naturally expect to find The Cobbler and The Cheviot under C, not T. But what about Welsh language or Scots Gaelic names such as Y Garn or An Gearanach — "y" and "an" are forms of the definite articles in those languages. My feeling is they should sort under Y and A respectively. (This seems standard practice: Munro's Tables sorts An Gearanach under A. That said, it sorts Beinn Ime under I.) — ras52 10:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Ras52 — leave off "The" but not "Y[r]" or "An". I would also warn against dropping "Be[in]n" unless a very large majority of articles in a category start with that word (which, given the number of Sgurrs, Stobs and so on, is unlikely to be the case). This might also be a good opportunity to remind people that words in the sort key should always begin with a capital letter, and have the rest in lower-case (regardless of correct spelling), and that accents and most punctuation must be omitted, so that Sgurr a' Mhàim sorts as "Sgurr A Mhaim", and so on. --Stemonitis 10:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I decided to follow WP:BOLD and have added defaultsorts to all the hills and mountains I could find with names starting "The ", encouraged by finding that The Nab and The Knott are arranged under N and K in the "Far Eastern Fells" template. I've amended The: Calf, Cheviot, Nab, Knott, Cobbler, Wrekin, Roaches, Devil's Point, Cloud (Peak District), Cairnwell, Storr, Saddle, Brack. If you can find any more, do fix them or let me know! PamD 09:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

And also fixed The Storr in List of mountains of the British Isles by relative height and The Calf in List of peaks in the Yorkshire Dales so that they file right when sortable tables are sorted A-Z. There may be more of these lurking around waiting to be fixed! PamD 10:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
The better method for doing this, incidentally, is to use the template {{sort}}. I only discovered it recently, so I expect it will be unfamiliar to lots of people. The advantage is that you can alter the sort order without having to adjust the visible text. "Calf, The" is not something that should ever be visible, and with {{sort}}, it doesn't have to be. The advice given on the template page that "A table using this template should use it in all rows" seems not to be true. --Stemonitis 10:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
What a useful little template! Thanks for telling me, and for fixing those two. PamD 12:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

High point of Merseyside?

Billinge Hill claims to be in Merseyside and the high point at 179m; List of English counties by highest point gives Poll Hill at 108m (and OS grid refs are totally difft, so it's not a question of duplicate names!). Any ideas? PamD 13:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know where Poll Hill has come from; however, everything I can find points to Billinge Hill being the highest point of Merseyside. The Relative Hills of Britain gives Billinge Hill as the high point of the 1974 county of Merseyside which is roughly coterminous with the present-day Metropolitan county of Merseyside. (which contains up to date boundary information) puts the current county boundary between Merseyside and Greater Manchester as running a couple of hundred metres north of the high point of Billinge Hill. This is in agreement with the current 1:25,000 Ordnance Survey map at getamap. Poll Hill is perhaps the high point of the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral? I would make some snide remark about the government's seeming inability to leave counties untouched for more than five minutes, but frankly I can't be bothered. — ras52 00:48, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Have now checked [[1]] which is quoted as source for List of English counties by highest point - it lists Billinge for Merseyside. Have corrected List of English counties by highest point. PamD 06:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Hills of x-shire

I've created category "Hills of x" for all the counties which were represented by stray hills which appeared in the category Category:Mountains and hills of England. Some are very small categories (I managed to find at least two hills for each), but I think they are justified under WP:CAT which says "Note that it is always appropriate to add articles to categories that fit into well established taxonomies. For example, every article about a musical album is categorized in some [[Category:Artistname albums]] category, which is in turn categorized in Category:Albums by artist.", which I take to mean that as we've got a series of "Hills of x" categories forming an "established taxonomy", it's sensible to create more such categories even if they are very small. The list of pages at Category:Mountains and hills of England is now reduced to general pages only, rather than holding a collection of random hills in flattish counties! I hope I have trodden on no toes in doing this. All the new categories are categorised under the above, and also under "Geography of x" and "Environment of x" where these exist. PamD 14:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

A pleasure working with you all on the Wainwrights

I'm hanging up my square brackets for now, apart from the odd bit of vandal-watching. I'm not protesting against anything, I'm not even too busy, I just don't know anything else. Happy editing. Bobble Hat 21:31, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice work pal on finishing off the Wainwrights with really good articles (not stubs), I would never have got round to it. Theres always something to add, i.e scrambling routes to some summits, Bob Allen's book "On High Lakeland Fells", which I've got gives some routes. Photos still need adding, I think all articles should have, not just a picture of the mountain but also a summit view and a pic of any outstanding feature, a good example is Fleetwith Pike which has all three, Honister Crag being the outstanding feature. Keep contributing theres always room for expansion, I think the geology that you've added is good, but even more would be nice and in laymans terms, it sounds a bit like jargon to me. Best Regard Mick Knapton 08:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Can't help with any more geology, I just repeat what it says on the BGS maps. Don't understand much of it either, as you can tell. I don't have the geological maps for the more peripheral areas, that why I've not done them. As for the fells in general, I'm pretty sure I've mined every Lakeland reference I have. All the best. Bobble Hat 19:32, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Mount Edmund

I'd be grateful to anyone who could visit and support this article's request for deletion. Even a quick glance at a map will confirm that no such mountain exists, especially as the article claims that it is a 1419 m (3042 ft) Marilyn in South Wales — yes, the metric and imperial values don't even agree. In short, someone is trying to pull a fast one: it's a total fabrication. — ras52 21:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It's text ripped off from Sugar Loaf Mountain, Wales with lots of silly alterations. I've suggested a speedy close - hoaxes aren't normally speediable, but I think this one is obvious enough to qualify as blatent vandalism. Iain99Balderdash and piffle 21:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Exmoor FAC

Exmoor is now a FA candidate. If anyone has any comments please add them at Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Exmoor.— Rod talk 12:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Ronas Hill

Is there anyone who can produce a decent article on this subject please? It's the highest hill in Shetland, and also has a number of variant spellings. I can't find much to say about it.--MacRusgail (talk) 01:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi ya, I think we could make a pretty decent article about Ronas Hill, I did a quick bit of research and it is Special Area of Conservation (SAC) and a Special Area of Protection (SPA), it has a periglacial blockfield on its summit similar to Derry Cairngorm, The summit also seems to have a chambered cairn which people can get inside and a visitors book. I'm happy to help out on the project with anybody. Mick Knapton (talk) 10:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)