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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Seguro64 (talk | contribs) at 22:57, 24 April 2021 (Added comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Changing the cause of death to align with autopsy

The cause of death in Floyd profile does not reflect the released autopsy from the court. Should we update this to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.243.227.70 (talk • contribs)

Care to link to RS reporting this?Slatersteven (talk) 09:14, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Slatersteven, pdf HTH. — Ched (talk) 19:36, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ched, That's a primary source. Jorm (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well - Since I'm really not interested in editing the article, I'm not going to search further. I wouldn't think finding some MSM source that reprinted it would be difficult. Someone wanted the report - I provided a link to it. Do with it what you will. Happy editing to all. — Ched (talk) 20:11, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a fairly in depth NYT piece: [1]. I don't think it, or the autopsy report itself, contradicts anything in the article as far as I can see. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 20:17, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
MAybe you would care to quote were it says "cause of death" as I see a lot of things there.Slatersteven (talk) 09:18, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The cause of death was drugs due tue an autopsy 2601:1C2:101:3480:1CB6:AF0D:8C22:3E3C (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:17, 18 April 2021‎

Did it, source?Slatersteven (talk) 09:12, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The autopsy caused the death? That's odd. So why isn't the medical examiner being tried for murder? --Khajidha (talk) 14:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/04/869278494/medical-examiners-autopsy-reveals-george-floyd-had-positive-test-for-coronavirus Editor8778 (talk) 01:00, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2021

Cause of death strangulation

George Floyd was murderer by a police officer who knelt on his neck for 9 1/2 minutes causing the flow of oxygen to his brain MrsSharonNorwoodLewis (talk) 00:09, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cannot use murder without a conviction.—Bagumba (talk) 01:11, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note the trial will soon be over. then we can report what the courts findings said the cause of death was.Slatersteven (talk) 09:37, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

'African(-)American'

Please can we move all instances of 'African-American' to 'African American' since it should not be hyphenated whether adjective/noun per MLA, APA, and AP style guidelines.

Sources:

—Plifal (talk) 01:45, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We don't follow MLA, APA, or AP style guides. We have our own. --Khajidha (talk) 13:37, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please specify, because this is counter to all recommended action and considered grammatically incorrect.—Plifal (talk) 16:01, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am not aware of any style guide that says hyphenate African American. The biggest clue would be our African American article. Koncorde (talk) 16:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, nor is it specified under WIKI:MOS under 'hyphen', suggesting that we go with broader consensus.—Plifal (talk) 16:11, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We go with the broader consensus here, and as has been pointed out we do not do it here as a matter of course. Maybe raise this at wp:mos.Slatersteven (talk) 16:12, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Will do, broader consensus here suggests de-hyphenating pending judgement though, no?.—Plifal (talk) 16:17, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find a specific guideline about "African American", but we do normally hyphenate compound modifiers. "African-American ___________" would be an example of such. --Khajidha (talk) 17:22, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And I can find several articles here on WP (African-American English to start with) and in the wider internet with that usage.--Khajidha (talk) 17:26, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We don't. Some people do. Some sources do. Some sources do not. Please stop trying to suggest there is a universal standard. Koncorde (talk) 17:40, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2021

The page states that he was saying he couldn't breathe when the officer was kneeling on him. According to bodycam footage, he was already stating he couldn't breathe when he was sitting in the police vehicle. 162.216.245.26 (talk) 16:45, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:46, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So, you're saying that the police knelt on him knowing that he was having difficulty breathing? Not exactly smart on their part.--Khajidha (talk) 19:58, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit out inappropriate obscenities from article

Could someone who has access please edit out the obscenities? My 10 year old niece uses these articles for school but now I have to block Wikipedia from her white list as no longer safe for children to read! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9000:ff00:8e:c181:172e:81c9:6b5d (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia is not censored. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 22:02, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what they were talking about.--Jorm (talk) 22:06, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My recommendation would be to install a browser add-on that censors words for you. This will allow your child to view adult reading material like the news without worry. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
2603: Thanks for the report! There are no curse words in the article. A vandal had added several, and continued to do so after being reverted, but we are on top of it. Sorry you got told that you should suck it up.--Jorm (talk) 22:15, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my mistake, I hadn't seen that. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 22:18, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2021

Change "This article is about the man killed during a police arrest." at top of page to "This article is about the man murdered during a police arrest." Thecarterclan1 (talk) 00:36, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done—Bagumba (talk) 01:21, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not even trough appeals yet, but still we treat Mr. Chauvin as guilty before proven innocent, eh? Good ol' Wikipedia. Accuracy or pertinence of information be damned as long as it is verifiable or reaches consensus. Want another example? Check the FAQ on top of this talk page. The part where it is asked why is the fact that Mr. Chauvin is white pertinent to the case of Mr. Floyd? Well because group think says it is pertinent. That's all thee is. I'm so glad Wikipedia is specifically forbidden as a source for academia where I live. Lucatir (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Though you invest non-academia time here. —Bagumba (talk) 10:18, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was actually going to answer this seriously, but then I noticed you are an administrator and if someone like you can't be expected to argue things by their merits instead of trying to go for a low hanging "gotcha" fruit, then no one can. I'm sure your retort sounded clever in your head the very least, but falls apart under the slightest of intellectual scrutiny. Lucatir (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to understand Wikipedia's core policies, but apparently don't agree with them. That's fine. Wikipedia is not for everyone. Are you trying to improve this page? Wikipedia is not compulsory. There are alternative outlets too. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 12:57, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He has been found guilty, thus he is now guilty.Slatersteven (talk) 12:45, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know of any encyclopedia that is a valid source in academia. Encyclopedias may lead you to sources, but they themselves are not things serious scholars ever cite. --Khajidha (talk) 11:36, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:CIRCULAR, Wikipedia doesn't use Wikipedia as a source either. —Bagumba (talk) 12:00, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For that matter, why not "the man murdered by a policeman"? EEng 21:43, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Grammatical changes

The W in white is capitalized when referencing Derek Chauvin but none of the B’s referencing Black people are capitalized anywhere in the article. This strikes me as subtle, intentional racism as it is the exact opposite of what the stylebooks of all major news organizations are currently following. This should be corrected throughout the article. Grahamlone (talk) 01:48, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to be consistent.—Bagumba (talk) 01:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Does Wikipedia not follow AP stylebook by capitalizing the B? Grahamlone (talk) 02:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Grahamlone: There is currently no consensus on Wikipedia. The latest discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Discussion_about_capitalisation_of_Black_(people). Some pages capitalize "White" if "Black" is capitalized, but that was not the case here.—Bagumba (talk) 02:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Current guidelines on this are that either capitalizing both or capitalizing neither is allowed, but capitalizing only one of them isn't. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Peoples and their languages.--Khajidha (talk) 11:52, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2021 (2)

Cause of death: Murdered Hadleythopple (talk) 13:07, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No that is the crime, cause of death was being knelt upon and chocked to death.Slatersteven (talk) 13:10, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:14, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"George Floyd/" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect George Floyd/. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 22#George Floyd/ until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 05:26, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2021

Courtny Ross was George Floyd's Girlfriend of 3 years. There are numerous resources, but I'm citing her testimony in the Derrick Chauvin trial. 47.20.142.33 (talk) 06:09, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:02, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2021

Request to link this page to the Physical Restraint page, possibly at the first point that "restraint" is mentioned. MayDown (talk) 08:29, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The page already mentions him being handcuffed. I think the other mentions of "restraint" are the officers using physical force, not physical devices. Not sure if physical restraint would still be relevant to non-objects, or if this would be MOS:OVERLINK.—Bagumba (talk) 08:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Felonies and "various minor charges"

When reading the Snopes article I noticed that 3 of the jail terms between 1997 and 2005 were felonies, crimes that are typically seen as more serious crimes. These included the manafacturing of or the delivery of controlled substances as well as theft. Were the felonies objectively relatively minor crimes or should the article be changed? I wouldn't want to make a "bold" change on a controversial topic.Originalcola (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The explanatory note says: "In 1997, at age 23, Floyd was arrested when police caught him delivering less than one gram of cocaine to another person, for which he was sentenced to six months in prison. The following year, Floyd was arrested twice for theft, receiving a sentence of 10 months for one count and 10 days for the other. In 2001, Floyd was arrested and sentenced to 15 days in jail for failing to provide his name, address, or birth date to a police officer. Between 2002 and 2005, he was arrested four more times: twice for drug possession and once for delivering, in each case less than a gram of cocaine, and once for criminal trespassing. He was sentenced to a total of about 30 months in jail for those four crimes." Those definitely sound like minor crimes to me. --Khajidha (talk) 13:50, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Khajidha: Those are convictions to various crimes, not simply "minor charges." He was convicted, not only charged, is what I mean. Being charged with a crime merely means that the government has formally accused a person of a crime. A person charged with a crime is, by law, innocent. However, being convicted of a crime means that the person has plead guilty or has been found guilty after trial. A person convicted of a crime is, by law, guilty. But since Floyd was sentenced to jail that means he was convicted. Thus, "minor charges" is ultimately misleading since he was indeed convicted. In my view, it should be changed to "misdemeanors" (crimes that require fewer than 12 months of incarceration each). It's not a matter of what "you" consider but what the law ultimately says. --Seguro64 (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Seguro64: You were indef blocked from editing George Floyd protests and Killing of George Floyd for disruptively besmirching the man. Maybe consider leaving him alone? Generalrelative (talk) 18:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Generalrelative: I'm not sure what that has to do with the inaccuracy and ambiguity problems that @Originalcola is mentioning here. Charges are not the same as convictions. Also, you don't have any right to tell me to go away from a page where I have every right to discuss. Your behaviour is becoming too personal. I provided arguments here which are backed up by the law.Seguro64 (talk) 18:30, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say that "Floyd served eight jail terms on various minor charges" is pretty clear as to the fact that he was convicted. I wouldn't stop anyone from changing it to "Floyd served eight jail terms for various minor crimes" or something like that, but it is hardly misleading as written. --Khajidha (talk) 20:55, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A person doesn't serve jail time just because he's charged. There has to be a conviction. The language used is euphemistic and inaccurate. Saying "Floyd served eight jail terms on various minor charges" is deceiving because it leaves room for a presumption of innocence by the use of "charges" as opposed to "convictions", when in fact, a verdict was established back then (on each separate misdemeanor). Let's avoid deceiving euphemisms and instead be accurate to law terminology and logic. Accurate propositions could be "Floyd served eight jail terms on account of multiple convictions" or "Floyd was convicted eight times and served a jail term for each misdemeanor." What's important is to remove inaccurate language and logic, like in this case "charges", when in fact they were more than that and it's on record Seguro64 (talk) 21:57 24 April 2021 (UTC)
That is how they are described in the sources. eg. Snopes says According to court records in Harris County, which encompasses Floyd’s hometown of Houston, authorities arrested him on nine separate occasions between 1997 and 2007, mostly on drug and theft charges that resulted in months-long jail sentences and adds Another piece of important context while exploring how, and under what circumstances, police arrested Floyd in the late 1990s and early 2000s when he lived in Cuney Homes: On multiple occasions, police would make sweeps through the complex and end up detaining a large number of men, including Floyd, a neighborhood friend named Tiffany Cofield told the AP. Additionally, Texas has one of the highest incarceration rates in the country, per the Prison Policy Initiative, and several studies show authorities are way more likely to target Black Texans for arrests than white residents. We have to take the full context from the sources in account, which means that if they are skeptical about the seriousness or fairness with which Floyd was treated in those trials, we have to reflect that skepticism. And their wording (which is typical for cases like this) really doesn't support the unusually harsh phrasing you're pushing for. More importantly, as a matter of fact and law, you are actually incorrect when yous state that a person doesn't serve jail time just because he's charged. People serve time in jail when they are awaiting trial (which is included in the figures there); you can end up there simply by being charged. In fact, you can end up there without even being charged. --Aquillion (talk) 22:13, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Snopes mentions charges in relation to arrests, which is what is needed, meanwhile they implicitly mention a verdict by the obscure wording "that resulted" and a confirmed conviction by "jail sentences". I'm not sure how using conviction or misdemeanor is "unusually harsh phrasing", seriously? You're admitting the language in the article is a euphemism of some sort, then? Interesting. Conviction and misdemeanor are universally applied technicisms in law and they're closer to the technical, non-euphemistic truth that is generally used in these cases. Either way, the language used in the article is not the exact language that was used in Snopes but a watered-down oversimplification of the matter that avoids the conviction aspect. Also, expressed skepticism in the sources that isn't actually proven should be in quotes, since it's not a fact that he was part of those statistics necessarily but a mere speculation. --Seguro64 (talk) 22:42, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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