Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

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Wild Card (Game/Series) or wild card (game/series)

I've noticed several pages (example) 2022 American League Wild Card Series, 2019 National League Wild Card Game, List of American League Wild Card winners & sections/subsections (example) National League Wild Card at 2022 Major League Baseball season, tend to use "Wild Card" rather then "wild card". Which is actually the correct form? Uppercase or lowercase. GoodDay (talk) 04:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The series (and single game before it) are uppercase as proper nouns for the name of a specific recurring event, same as the Division Series and League Championship Series. And the World Series for that matter. On the other hand, earning a wild card berth is a generic noun because there are multiple per league. The comment at the move request that prompted this can and should be ignored; the editor who made it has proven he doesn't actually understand the fundamentals of English grammar in terms of proper and common nouns and resorts to shallow google tests without actually examining the results. It wouldn't be the first time he's stuck his nose in a field he has no clue about in an attempt to force his misunderstanding of the conventions of English. oknazevad (talk) 04:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I figured the capitalised version was correct. But, just wanted to be certain. GoodDay (talk) 04:26, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase: It's a common noun, not a proper name, in the cases where it is not part of the name of an event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I think you'd face resistance in attempting to use (for examples) 2019 National League wild card game or List of American League wild card winners, etc. GoodDay (talk) 05:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The first of those two might be the proper name of a specific event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:16, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. The first one is a specific recurring event. It gets capitals as a proper noun. The second is a generic term and common noun. The fact that the second is lowercase has no bearing on whether the first should be capitalized. That's my concern, that some don't get that simple fact. oknazevad (talk) 17:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase for the term, uppercase for the round, but I think "List of American League wild card winners" is a silly concept for a page anyway. We don't have a page listing wild cards in the NFL or NHL. O.N.R. ^(talk) 17:18, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

It made more sense when there was just the one per league, making it a distinct and unique annual achievement. Once a second wild card team was added (and the Wild Card Game begun), then it ceased to be particularly noteworthy. oknazevad (talk) 17:29, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase It's just a desriptive name of common English words, whose meaning does not change whether it is captialized or not. Leagues captitalize for branding and emphasis, but our MOS does not require us to be a slave to their decisions. For example, The New York Times is usually conservative with capitalization: On Tuesday night, in the National League wild card game at Nationals Park...[1]—Bagumba (talk) 18:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• Lowercase in most cases, as a perusal of sources makes clear. It is nowhere near consistently capitalized in sources, so per MOS:CAPS we shouldn't capitalize it. I've downcased this in hundreds of places already these year, and got not one peep of feedback. As BP notes, there may be some proper names of events in some of these that include American League or National League Wild Card Game, etc., but most uses of wild card are generic, like wild card winners (ideally hyphenated, too). The observed "tendency to capitalize" is not much to do with Wild Card; there's a big tendency in sports to capitalize everything; look at my tens of thousands of edits this year for copious examples; or my hundreds from this weekend. Dicklyon (talk) 20:24, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Lowercase if kept, per Baguma, et al.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:56, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Uppercase - as this is how MLB does it. GoodDay (talk) 20:59, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Lowercase The OP is posed as a question. To the question, this is not intrinsically a proper noun phrase. I am seeing nothing in the discussion (evidence) that would support that it should be considered necessary capitalisation per MOS:CAPS. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

PS Specificity does not inherently make something a proper name, since this can be done by the definite article (the) and other modifiers, as is done in these cases. That the presiding body capitalises, does not satisfy MOS:CAPS per consistent usage in independent sources. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:40, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Uppercase - It is a event like the Division Series that occurs in both leagues. So it should be capilized like Division Series. Nemov (talk) 12:28, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

  That would best be fixed by fixing Division series, which is not a proper name, but a generic term encompassing two different series. Dicklyon (talk) 03:24, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Uppercase for the games as they are all events that are proper names. I'd suggest renaming the list page as List of American League wild card teams as the list is not just showing the winners of the games but mentions all the teams that held that distinction. Spanneraol (talk) 13:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Uppercase when referring to a specific event or title within MLB, as this would be a proper nown. Lowercase when speaking in generalities about a wild card position. Skipple ☎ 14:43, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

• Mix I would echo User:Oknazevad's point up above: Uppercase when referring to the proper-noun event (e.g., "leading the Nationals to a 4-3 victory in the National League Wild Card Game") and lowercase when referring to the concept (e.g., "competing for a wild card spot") generally. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:14, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Notice of related RM

An RM has been opened up, concerning League Championship Series and Division Series. -- GoodDay (talk) 03:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Note: RM was closed as 'not moved'. Thus remaining League Championship Series and Division Series. GoodDay (talk) 03:29, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I notice that this is under the above "Wild Card" discussion. I believe the outcome for LCS and Division Series is unrelated, as wild card, in contrast, is a basic English term defined in general dictionaries. There's more justification to captialize if the term in question has a special meaning from its basic English lowercase counterpart. —Bagumba (talk) 04:55, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

An RM was also closed as moved to Wild Card Series. GoodDay (talk) 05:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Nonetheless, the standalone term should probably just be "wild card" in prose, as I doubt capitalized "Wild Card" has any special meaning in any MLB specific page. That can co-exist with the preferred "Wild Card Series" consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 05:56, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

AfD: Two-ball

I have nominated the article Two-ball for deletion. As the article appears in Category:Baseball terminology, it may be of interest to some editors here. Dmoore5556 (talk) 04:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I haven't even heard of that game. Spanneraol (talk)

Yes, it needs to be deleted before some adds "dogfight football" to the article! BilCat (talk) 05:02, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Update: it has been deleted. Dmoore5556 (talk) 06:57, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tom Butters (baseball)#Requested move 5 September 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tom Butters (baseball)#Requested move 5 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Infoboxes with unknown parameters

The category Category:Pages using infobox MLB yearly with unknown parameters currently contains over 1200 entries, the vast majority of which appear to be due to the use of two invalid/deprecated fields: "logo" and "Uniform logo". It would be helpful to edit the infoboxes of articles listed in the Category to remove those two specific invalid fields, so the Category can be used to spot and resolve new(er) mistakes. Might someone here know how to / be able to construct a bot to do that? Dmoore5556 (talk) 07:06, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Matt Mervis

Maybe he now meets GNG? Chicago Cubs minor league players#Matt Mervis Articles about him every day. 2603:7000:2143:8500:75B2:5004:43A1:9FC0 (talk) 00:22, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't see anything about Mervis that's particularly notable as a minor league player. Mentions of the player do not make him notable. Section appears to be WP:OVERCITEed. Skipple ☎ 00:46, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

GNG. That’s a sufficient measure of notability. And just google to see the level of GNG coverage in RSs devoted to him. He easily meets that standard. Of course papers will write about you when you lead the minors in RBIs, with the most since Pete Alonso four years ago. But the gold standard is GNG. Not subjective personal views as to notability. --2603:7000:2143:8500:606B:F87:252D:CD98 (talk) 09:11, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Please provide attribution when splitting from a "minor league players" page

Last night, Ezequiel Tovar's wiki page was tagged as a copyright violation and deleted per WP:G12. It was an innocent mistake for the tagger and deleting admin to have made, as the page was split without proper attribution, noting that it was split from an existing page.

Please read Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Whenever you split a minor league player from a minor league player page, write an edit summary that explains what you are doing. On the new page, write something like Copied content from [[<page name>]]; see that page's history for attribution. On the "minor league player" page, don't just delete the content, but add a similar edit summary that says where you're splitting it to, as I have seen editors assume incorrectly that it is an illegitimate blanking situation.

This saves everybody time in the end. Thank you. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:32, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:12TeamBracket-MLB

Hello WikiProject Baseball members. As 2022 postseason will have 12 baseball teams competing (6 teams each on both American and National leagues), can we make a template of 12 teams in a bracket for the postseason article? I made a draft template on my sandbox page here, so I request for a template review on my sandbox template page if it's ready or not before the playoffs begin? I don't know where to remove unnecessary lines between the wild card series and the division series columns from the unneeded boxes that I certainly can't find the code? --Allen ^{(talk / ctrb)} 07:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Your bracket fails MOS:COLOR. See previous posting by Pbrks at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 48#Accessibility issues with MLB brackets. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:04, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

First of all, thanks for working on this... I believe if you remove the color and work off this Template:8TeamBracket color scheme you should be fine. Nemov (talk) 14:26, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

What's wrong with using {{12TeamBracket}}? – Pbrks ^(t • c) 17:22, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. {{12TeamBracket}} covers what's needed. –Aidan721 (talk) 17:27, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Is there a way to make the 12 team bracket support NL/AL seeding system? Or just use two {{6TeamBracket}} brackets? Nemov (talk) 17:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, it is handled by the parameters |RD1-seed1=, |RD1-seed2=, etc, as seen at 2022 Major League Baseball postseason#Playoff bracket. – Pbrks ^(t • c) 17:41, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I copied from 16TeamBracket-MLB template and I still haven't removed those unnecessary lines on my sandbox bracket template when it comes to a 12-team bracket but retain its colors for both American and National leagues. --Allen ^{(talk / ctrb)} 23:20, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Allen2: The colors fail MOS:COLOR so should not be included. Thus, it's redundant to {{12TeamBracket}}. –Aidan721 (talk) 04:14, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@Allen2, the seeds aren't correct. 4/5 winner plays the 1 seed. 6/3 winner plays the 2 seed. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 19:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@Nemov: I fixed it on my sandbox template page. I even forgot that the 4/5 seed winner will play the 1 seed and the 3/6 winner will play the 2 seed, both for the Division Series. I flipped the better team to the bottom of the box for each game on the second column as a result. @Aidan721: So you think it's unnecessary to include background colors on the infobox for the playoff bracket this year as Pbrks said it comes to accessibility issues of the bracket? At first, the playoff bracket had colors of red representing the American League and blue representing the National League, so the background colors was used for every postseason article on Wikipedia until you said that the background colors on a playoff bracket couldn't agree with MOS:COLOR. --Allen ^{(talk / ctrb)} 20:51, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

How should the Angels be shown in the 2005 to 2015 AL West standings?

Myself & @Jhn31: are in dispute about how to show the Angels, in the Template:2005 AL West standings to the Template:2015 AL West standings. I think the team should be shown as Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Where's he thinks it should be shown as Los Angeles Angels. We can't both be correct. GoodDay (talk) 15:58, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

While Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim was the official name of the team, the team was commonly known as simply Los Angeles Angels at the time. Evidence of this is the article titles 2005 Los Angeles Angels season through 2015 Los Angeles Angels season. There's no "of Anaheim" in the article titles because it's unnecessary and doesn't match COMMONNAME. For a parallel situation in other sports, not a single NBA standings template (such as Template:2022–23 NBA Atlantic standings) uses "New York Knickerbockers," instead using the more common "New York Knicks." Jhn31 (talk) 16:01, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I wish somebody would've invited to the (if one was held) RM, covering those 11 team season pages. Concerning those team season pages, "...of Anaheim" is included in their intros & also their infobox headings. PS - Do we have to 'delete' "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" from the team page itself? Retroactively eliminate it entirely? GoodDay (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

No, there's a proper context for using longer technical names (such as explaining within the text of an article or a detail in an infobox), and also a proper context (such as article titles and standings templates) for using the common names. This convention exists throughout Wikipedia, both on sports and non-sports pages. Jhn31 (talk) 16:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm waiting for others to give their input. I'll accept whatever the consensus is for those 2005 to 2015 Angels season templates. GoodDay (talk) 17:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Agree with @Jhn31. Going with the common name is the logical solution. Nemov (talk) 17:13, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Also agree with using the shorter common name. A chart is exactly the sort of place where a shorter form is preferred. oknazevad (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

For reference: renaming the season pages was (briefly) discussed at Talk:2005 Los Angeles Angels season § Requested move 7 May 2017. The discussion refers to Talk:Los Angeles Angels/Archive 1 § Requested move 28 April 2017. isaacl (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Not exactly well attended RMs. An RM on the matter, should've been held 'here' at WP:BASEBALL. GoodDay (talk) 22:57, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

No, a requested move should be held at the article for which the move is proposed, or at one of the articles in the case of a multi-move as these were. A pointer to the discussion should be dropped at the project, but the move discussion itself should be at the article talk. oknazevad (talk) 23:28, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Well, if ya'll prefer the templates-in-question to drop the "...of Anaheim" bit? I'll no longer dispute it. GoodDay (talk) 23:45, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I imagine you know this already, but for the benefit of anyone who isn't familiar with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Article alerts page, it lists these types of discussions for pages associated with the baseball WikiProject. isaacl (talk) 23:53, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Wasn't aware of it, until now. GoodDay (talk) 00:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Batted ball GAR

Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Batted ball/1 - I originally wrote this back in my early days as an editor, when I didn't realize the b-ref bullpen was user-generated. Now nominated for removal as a good article, as I don't have the time or energy to fix the referencing here. Hog Farm _Talk 00:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

D. J. Mitchell

Hi Baseball community. I have recently created D. J. Mitchell (basketball). I am keen to find out if this community would be receptive to moving D. J. Mitchell to D. J. Mitchell (baseball). Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 13:48, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

This seems like a good idea to me since there are multiple notable people with that name. Neither one seems notable enough to justify the article being titled D.J. Mitchell. Nemov (talk) 14:09, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Year postseason pages infoboxes

I noticed in the 1981 postseason & 1995-present postseason pages' infoboxes, we include the semi-final losers. I realise these were added due to the Division Series. But wouldn't it be best if we limited the infoboxes, to the World Series champion & runner-up? GoodDay (talk) 19:35, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Brian Wolfe

The article about Brian Wolfe is being edited by a number of people from the same IP range, some claiming to be a child of his, others claiming he has no children. Can someone investigate this. Mindmatrix 17:00, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

I can find no reliable sources online about his personal life... minor children should not be mentioned by name on articles anyway so I just removed all of it. Spanneraol (talk) 17:27, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Boxscore links

Boxscore links on some previous years' playoff games are broken, e.g. this[2] on 2016 National League Wild Card Game (and several subsequent years, plus AL games, etc.). 192.104.199.208 (talk) 02:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

I see this all the time in other sports as well. The league sites at some point either remove (or move without a redirect) old game recaps. Personally, I'd say to use something more stable like baseball-reference.com. If people insist on using "official" sites, then we'll need to invest time to repair dead links.—Bagumba (talk) 03:31, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

There are a lot of issues with this from mlb.com links I guess they changed their format recently. Is there a bot or something that can fix this easily cause it seems like a real hassle to go back and change them. Spanneraol (talk) 22:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Seth Brown (baseball)#Requested move 3 October 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Seth Brown (baseball)#Requested move 3 October 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 20:20, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Nolan Ryan

Are any of Nolan Ryan's no-hitters notable enough to have their own article? 100.7.44.80 (talk) 19:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I do not think so. If one of his no-hitters is notable, then all no-hitters are notable, and MLB has had over 300. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:34, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Normally, I would agree, but I believe his 5th and 7th no-hitters are notable enough. His 5th in particular was the record-breaker, so...yeah. 100.7.44.80 (talk) 20:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest that List of Nolan Ryan no hitters is likely a notable topic and a better way of covering the topic rather than having separate articles. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:52, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. 100.7.44.80 (talk) 21:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Adding teams abbreviations to articles

I proposed adding the team abbreviations to the infoboxes (or at least the articles bodies) here. Please state your opinion. Thanks. --Angus (talk) 14:23, 18 October 2022 (UTC)