User talk:JackofOz/Archive 11

This is an archive of past discussions about User:JackofOz. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 5

←

Archive 9

→

Full stops on The Tempest

cf. this edit. Just FYI, the full stops were there because the character list came under fire for not being in complete sentences; so the original "Foo - Bar" list was rewritten to be as close to prose as a list can be made, and full sentences should be terminated by a full stop or other punctuation. I don't really have the strongest of opinions on this issue, but it might be worthwhile if you took the above context into account when deciding whether or not you think the full stops stay or go. Either way I won't be reverting there. --Xover (talk) 09:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Order of Australia - Sovereigns Badge

Hi Jack of Oz,

I have noticed that you have made a lot of edits towards the Order of Australia article. I was wondering whether you could put an actual picture of the Queen wearing the sovereigns badge like on the order of Canada's article. I would do it myself but don't know how.

Here are the pictures of the badge that I have found:

http://www.theorderofaustralia.asn.au/about_us/awards_and_insignia.php

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33183728@N00/2427149864/sizes/o/in/set-72157603922788936/

http://www.statusquo.org/aru_html/html/orderofaus.html

http://www.royalinsight.gov.uk/output/Page5159.asp?GalleryID=9&ImageID=238&Start=0

http://www.theorderofaustralia.asn.au/

If you could that would be great. I think it would improve the article and bring it in line with Canada's.

58.169.193.117 (talk) 04:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC)Cheers from Alex

Hi, Alex. I'd gladly do that, but I don't want to breach copyright. Some of these images may be OK, but I'm a complete dummy when it comes to determining whether images are copyrighted. Can you (or anyone else reading this) assist? Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Gavin de Beer

Agree absolutely that the surname is de Beer, but wonder if deBeer is not a better solution to sort? Or DeBeer if first letter must be cap. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I guess it depends on what outcome is desired. In some protocols, all the de Beers, de Havillands etc appear as if the surname was just "de", that is, all the "de ..." names appeared grouped together, before the Deans, Dears etc. In other protocols, all the letters of the surname count, so it's as if the surname was Debeer, Dehavilland etc. So, de Beer would be followed by the "Dec...", "Ded...", "Dee..." names, then de Havilland would take its place in the "Deh..." names, and de Zilva would be at or close to the end. That seems a more logical and intuitive system to me. Maybe WP has a preference, I don't know. If it's up to editors to choose, I prefer the latter protocol. -- JackofOz (talk) 18:26, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Category:Female classical musicians

This category is used by the Classical music project and all articles within it are bannered by that project. It's used for instrumentalists. Opera singers on the other hand are within the scope of the Opera Project so they have Opera banners. Hope that's clear. Best. --Klein zach 07:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that info. Having managed to avoid categories for most of my time on WP (5+ years), I've recently been getting into them in a big way, and learning as I go. One issue I'm encountering is the general lack of information about who goes where, and what consensuses have been reached about this. If, for example, I think "Hmm, Category X looks like it might be appropriate for this person", what tells me that my feeling is right, or wrong? The category pages themselves give no guidance about who should be included and who shouldn't be. I hope you understand my concern. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Category:Incidental music

Hi. I've reverted your addition of this category to the Ariadne auf Naxos and Königskinder article because neither of them are incidental music; they are both operas. The incidental music for Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme, i.e. Le Bourgeois gentilhomme (Strauss) is only peripherally related to the first version of Ariadne, and the proposed incidental music for Königskinder was never composed. The mere presence of the expression "incidental music" in an article doesn't entitle it to this category. I'm going to have to look through the cat to see if anything else needs to be reverted. Best wishes. --GuillaumeTell 22:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC) (PS Was it General Bennigsen that you are related to?)

Hi. No, it was General Aleksey Petrovich Yermolov - see User:JackofOz/Family connections. (If you already knew that, and Bennigsen was a coded reference to something else, it went over my head. Sorry.)

OK, I'll cop it sweet about Königskinder. I read it too quickly.

However, I'll take you up on Ariadne auf Naxos. We're told:

As well as composing the opera, Strauss provided incidental music to be performed during the play. In the end, the opera occupied ninety minutes, and the performance of play plus opera occupied over six hours. ... Hofmannsthal proposed to Strauss that the play should be replaced by a prologue ... Strauss was initially reluctant, but he composed the prologue ... This is the version that is normally staged today, although the original play-plus-opera is occasionally performed (for example, at the 1997 Edinburgh International Festival).

That says that incidental music was composed, performed once, put aside, but now occasionally revived. When that does occur, the incidental music is quite distinct from the music for the opera that follows the play.

Btw, I haven't used "the mere presence of the expression 'incidental music' in an article" to put it into the Incidental music category. There are many hundreds of articles containing this expression, and I chose only those ones that seemed directly relevant. I felt I was being quite judicious, actually. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the incidental music for the adaptation of Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme which formed part of Ariadne I has its own article which I linked to above, and you have correctly applied the category there. It is therefore unnecessary to apply it to the opera (or, I might add, to the play).

Except that Ariadne auf Naxos is not just about an opera. OK, it starts off "Ariadne auf Naxos (Ariadne on Naxos) is an opera by Richard Strauss with a German libretto by Hugo von Hofmannsthal" - because it's normally performed as an opera only. But it then goes on to explain its history, and its original conception as a play (4½ hours!! with incidental music) followed by an opera (only 1½ hours of different music), which is the way it's sometimes presented up to the present day. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Yermolov, right - I remember you helped me out over a wikitable when I was dealing with the versions of Prokofiev's War and Peace. I meant to mention then that I had a slight acquaintance with a descendant of General Mikhail Barclay de Tolly! --GuillaumeTell 22:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, that makes us almost cousins. I still have a slight acquaintance with Yermolov's descendant, my ex-wife (joking, we're good friends, actually), but a stronger relationship with our children. Yermolov and Barclay fought together at Borodino. I must put on my CD of the 1812 Overture in celebration. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

More from me, now that I've slept on it. The thing about Categories is that each category for any article should describe that article in some way. So, for example, Otello (seriously, this is just a random example off the top of my head) has the following categories:

Operas by Giuseppe Verdi
Italian-language operas
1887 operas
Operas
Adaptations of works by William Shakespeare

You'll agree that all these things are true of "Otello". Now consider Ariadne auf Naxos. Its categories are:

Operas by Richard Strauss
German-language operas
Operas
1916 operas

Again, all these are true. But if you add the category "Incidental music", you're adding a category that isn't true.

It seems to me that the category "Incidental music" should only apply to articles of which that is a description, such as Le Bourgeois gentilhomme (Strauss) or Peer Gynt suite or A Midsummer Night's Dream (Mendelssohn). If you want to create a category such as "Plays that have had incidental music written for them", you can indeed add that to A Midsummer Night's Dream or Le Bourgeois gentilhomme or Peer Gynt or The Tempest, and I would have no objection.

Any questions? --GuillaumeTell 22:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

You make good sense, cousin Tell, so we'll leave it at that. But I might just take you up on creating a "Plays that have had incidental music written for them" category. That will, if nothing else, in some cases promote the creation of articles about their incidental music, which can in turn go into the "Incidental music" category. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Be my guest! I was actually making a serious suggestion - I would welcome more articles that are about incidental music written for particular plays, so long as the articles for the plays themselves aren't given the "incidental music" category. Result!

One of these days I may get to visit the Merry Old Land of Oz - I have old school-friends in Sydney and Perth, and a genealogically-inclined second cousin once removed (I think) in the ACT. It's the travelling time that is daunting. Best. --GuillaumeTell 00:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

In case the new cat isn't on your watchlist, you might want to say something at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_February_7#Category:Plays_that_have_had_incidental_music_written_for_them --GuillaumeTell 18:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the pearl

"What people think of me is none of my business" is now on my User page. Nice one. --Milkbreath (talk) 22:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

You're very welcome, Milkbreath, but I can't claim credit. It was virtually a mantra among the personal development crowd I hung around with for a while back in the '90s. It's a good way of thinking about disassociating oneself from the opinions and expectations of others, which, if you let it, can be a dreadful burden. Best. How's that lactohalitosis going, by the way? :) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:48, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Funny you should ask. That's not mine, either. A newsgroup I used to frequent got into an examination of international ethnic insults one time, and "milkbreath" was part of a string of abuse levelled at white folks by an Indian gentleman. I remember it ended with "monkeyboy". Very funny, it was, the whole thread. (One year and counting since my last cigarette. Chantix roolz!) --Milkbreath (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Selling spelling

Hi Jack, some fun for you. On my travels I came across this: Horse manure, $x, chicken manuare, $x.50. I'm waiting for "x manuer" even more valuable! Julia Rossi (talk) 23:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, how lexically gruesome, Julia. We should create a new adjective: manue, manuer, manuest. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:55, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Another one for you, Kennels: poarding available. :)) Julia Rossi (talk) 22:12, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

haha. impossible to say unless they rely on insbiration. =)) Julia Rossi (talk) 06:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Burnt Up

We know about the "~~sunburned~~ sunburnt land" and Bryson's ~~"sunburnt""~~ sunburned" one, too; however, Victoria, though not a lady in this case, is still not for burning, I hope. And what about all those lovely vineyards? Can't we devise a "beam me up" for water from Townsville and Darwin down to you? I hope you and yours are not under threat. Regards, from a new signature, designed in a fit of boredom on a very cold February morning. I will likely go back to the original soon; winter can't last forever, can it? ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 03:28, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for being concerned, Bielle. Yesterday (7 February) was the hottest day in the recorded history of most places in Victoria. It got to 48 degrees in one place (= 118.4 Fahrenheit; that's in the shade, of course). It was 50 outside our place, but a lot cooler inside, so we stayed indoors with the doors and windows shut. There are massive fires all over the state, and the latest official death toll as of half an hour ago is 35, but expected to go higher. We're about 100 km from the nearest fire, so no danger, but we got a huge cloud of smoke yesterday that turned day into night from 2:30 pm onwards. The winds were extreme, even for a normally very windy place like Maffra. We got some light drizzle last night, and today is much more comfortable, but the house, the cars, and anything outside are covered in dark brown sludge. Most radio stations in Gippsland are off the air, but the ABC is still functioning (on reduced power) so we're getting constant reports about what's going on. Television reception is gone, except for Channel 10 (the station I watch least, unfortunately; and, dammit, I was going to tape a broadcast of my favourite opera La bohème on ABCTV this afternoon, but that will have to wait for another time). That's the least of our worries, though, when we reflect that 35+ people are dead. Up north, Ingham, Queensland is totally inundated by flood waters. Such is life on the land of Oz at the moment. Dorothea Mackellar was on the money when she wrote of a land of droughts and flooding rains. Cheers, Bielle. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:49, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow! I never thought I would say this, but . . . I'd rather have winter, even winter as we know it, than what you are experiencing. The hottest place I have ever been was Ayers Rock about 10:00 am of a January morning: 52 degrees F. I went straight back into the air-conditioned bus. The flies and then the heat were just too much. The coldest I have ever experienced was -53 degrees F at Lake Louise in Alberta. 100 km (or even miles) is not that far away where high winds, drought and fire are concerned. How do you keep breathing in that temperature if your electricity goes off? We are out in the country so we have a generator that can run the a/c, but not for long, and not if we want to do anything else, like read or cook or shower. (And, now that I think of it, a generator needs fuel, and I wouldn't want to be thinking about a forest fire raging through my bright yellow canisters of back-up supply.) Do keep alert, whether you hate the station or not; we need you. ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 04:18, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Heh, thanks, I feel needed. Never been to Uluru (and I assume you meant 52 C, not 52 F), but you're talking about external, not shade, temperature, aren't you? That's pretty much what it was like here yesterday - I measured it at 50 C outside, but for the places that got 48 C in the shade, that would have been about 60 C outside. Global warming - suddenly it seems very real and very relevant. Our electricity has not been affected (hence I can still go online), but 30,000 homes have no power at the moment. Unlike 2 weeks ago, when our phone line was down for 5 days, for some technical reason that was never explained to my satisfaction, so for 5 days I was unable to access WP - I almost died! Breathing - not a problem for a committed smoker like me. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 04:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I am constantly getting my "degrees C" and "degrees F" mixed up; how about scorchingly hot and tearingly cold instead? It was still Ayers Rock when I visited (1985) though I know it is Uluru now. I was talking about out in the sun. In the shade of the rock in the half hour before we were in full sun, it was not unpleasant, except for the flies, the flies, the flies. Still, you should go and take the guided tour around. It was very good. Just pick a winter's day for it. If it keeps you alive, keep smoking until the fire season is over. ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 04:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The official death toll is now 50, and will get worse. In terms of lives lost, it's the worst natural disaster in the state's history, worse than the Ash Wednesday fires of 1983. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

They keep on finding burned bodies in cars. It's now 65 dead. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I am appalled and terrified for all those in the path. If you are advised to evacuate, please leave, though at the risk of inappropriately black humour, perhaps not by car. There is nothing you own more valuable than your lives. ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 06:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry, we know what to do. We went through a personally much closer call 2 years ago; this time, the fires that are closest to us are under control and will not get anywhere near enough to us for us to have to consider evacuating. (He says with crossed fingers; the people who died yesterday thought they'd be safe, too.) -- JackofOz (talk) 07:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I just heard the 5:00 news on CBC radio. The report said the death toll is now at 100 and expected to keep rising. What a dreadful day! Keep safe, please! ៛ BL ៛ (talk) 22:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC) P.S. Can we email you water? BL

Now 108. No, water's ok, thanks. Drought per se is the least of our concerns right now. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

'Scuse me eavesdropping: just called in to see how things are for you. Fairly grim news from Victoria at large, even if you are well out of it. Thinking of you all. Gwinva (talk) 01:20, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Gwinva. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

[Also eavesdropping:] Yes Gwinva, it's been dreadful for a lot of Victoria. NSW is affected too, but not nearly so drastically. I'm in the hills near Melbourne myself; driving to NSW soon. We have to check from hour to hour how things are with road closures and the like; but the problems of those contemplating travelling interstate are nothing, next to the devastation all around. The toll of lives lost keeps rising, and for every one of those there is a cluster of associated tragedies.

Stay in NZ for now! (And Jack, see my email.)

–_⊥^{¡ɐɔıʇǝo}Noetica!^T– 01:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Now 173 confirmed dead. 2009 Victorian bushfires has all the gruesome details. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Posthumously born

I should look this up. There is likely a very complex discussion on it in at least three places on WP, but I am hoping you can help me take a short cut as I see you were putting dozens of people into this category at one stage. If "posthumous" means "after death", how, except by being born dead, can one be born posthumously? ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Have you seen Posthumous birth? That tells you what the term means. Maybe I'm slightly more vocabularistically enhanced than some people, but I always thought it was a well-known expression. But others have had the same query as you, so there you go. I created that article (under a different name at the time) last year. Much more recently, I created Category:Posthumously born people, and put all the names that were in the article, into the category. Unfortunately, better minds than mine have decided it’s not an appropriate category, so it’s been deleted, but the discussion about it is here. Cheers again. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I did work out what was likely meant by the term, but it has to be something of recent invention. I wonder where and when? Every other use of the word "posthumous" can only be applied to a person who is dead. Thus, someone can have a posthumous child, in the same way one can have a posthumous degree; that is, a child born or a degree awarded after one's own death. A mother can give birth posthumously in that she dies before the child is born, and the child is thus posthumously born but the baby does not have, except by this peculiar use of the term, a posthumous birth; it is quite alive when born. I am confusing myself now. If you look at the dab list for 'posthumous birth", the examples seem to suggest that this is a unique use of the term. It was new to me; I learn something at least once a week. (It used to be a more frequent occurence, but my brain is slowing down with age.) ¤₳₳ BL ₵₳¤ (talk) 04:43, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Plays with incidental music

I never would have even thought of that as a candidate for a list, but it really sits well with me. How much info do you have? I have works lists of a large number of major composers and should be able to add quite a lot to this (more than Grove has for many of them). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 12:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I've got a fair bit of info in various places, much of it from Grove. Please feel free to add whatever you've got. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

St. William Slim, 1st Viscount Slim

The poms appear to have been girding their loins for a stand against the odious suggestion by disaffected colonials that "Uncle Bill" might have been a kiddy fiddler. I see that you have weighed in with an opinion that the note on the allegations should stand. The Slimites however revert away. Is there some sort of arbitration process for this sort of thing? Albatross2147 (talk) 02:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure there is a place we can go to if really necessary - Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration, I suppose. For now, we should keep on pressing our case, using what we're told @ Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. RfA won't even consider a case unless DR has been exhausted. But if it becomes intractable, then maybe the big guns can be resorted to. I've never had anything to do with RfA in 5+ years - my Mum advised me to keep away from the courts - so let's wait and see what develops. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I couldnt agree with you more

Tullah - ta for the cat cleaning a thankless task usually :) Satu Suro 09:52, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Ref Desk/Hum:Holocaust

Thanks for your support. I wonder why I am beating my head against this particularly thick brick wall. "More Australians died in bush fires this year than in any other year since records began." There's a negative fact about Australia; they don't get much more negative. I'd be afraid to posit what "ism" that supports! Tell me just to ignore the strangled logic, to have a glass of wine, to eat some dinner and enjoy what remains of this Sunday night. My hair is already almost all silver; I don't need to be bald, too. ៛ BL ៛ (talk) 01:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

When we see something that seems to be from the pen of an insane person, we naturally try to use logic to counter the argument, in a (in this case, vain) attempt to help them see reason. It seems to have been futile in this instance, but at least we'll never be accused of letting such absurdities stand without some kind of rejoinder. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I am not sure I agree with Algebraist's removal of all of the IP's bizarre "reasoning" and all of our responses to it, but it may have saved you a heart attack. When I read 82's response claiming that you now agreed with him, I feared you might burst a blood vessel trying to keep your word about not writing more, but knowing that appalling libel was just sitting there, unrefuted. Part of me is relieved, and the page certainly loads faster as a consequence. ៛ BL ៛ (talk) 03:07, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi!

Thanks for revising! I'm sure that in Harrison page 78 it spells Lodyzhenskaya as it was before: 'Lodïzhenskaya. Please, why did you made this change? I can give some references, search Lodïzhenskaya here. Bye! OboeCrack (talk) 21:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, OboeCrack (a fine user name, if I may say so). I used the guideline at Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian:

When multiple spellings are used and no single spelling clearly predominates, use the one closest to the WP:RUS romanization guidelines.

The Romanization table says that the letter "ы" is transliterated "y" when it's an internal letter – the example given is Давыдов = Davydov.

Also, a search shows that "Lodyzhenskaya" is commonly used for this lady. The umlauted-i version gets far fewer hits – and even there, half of them are the straight, un-umlauted i anyway. A Google search can’t be used by itself, but it does support WP’s guideline in this case. Another point is that Anna Lodyzhenskaya is virtually unknown, even to many Rachmaninoffophiles. Her name is hardly known at all, let alone in any one standardised spelling. In my view, this is sufficient justification for altering the spelling that the source used, to the one that WP prefers. I hope that explains my rationale.

On a personal note, I believe that, because we’re writing for English readers, we should never use typography that is unfamiliar to most of them. We’re familiar enough with umlauts/diaereses in German names, but they apply to the letters a, o and u; occasionally to e; but never to i. Thus, most people would simply have no idea what is meant by ï, and it is thus pointless using it. I hate transliterations like "Potëmkin" (what's wrong with Potyomkin?), but I can (just barely) tolerate them. My tolerance is exhausted when it comes to words like "Lodïzhenskaya". Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:41, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok. Must I change the name in the Spanish version? I have problems with the FAC of the symphony, can you help me to solve them? I'm not sure if they can solved easily or not: the problem is that several parts of the article are "copied" from Harrison. I must talk with Jonyungk. I'm worried about it and I'm not an expert in English as it would be appropiate to make important changes. Moreover, he has made the 80% of the article. OboeCrack (talk) 23:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't help you with the Spanish version of WP. Their rules on such matters may well be different from those on the English version, and romanization of Cyrillic into languages other than English, French and German is not something I know anything about (wel, not enough to be confident, anyway). I'll have a look at the FAC issues and see what I can do. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:24, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Away sick

Argh, I feel awful. See my talkpage. I was not working optimally when I answered you about refutation at the RefDesk. Sorry! Should have cut it down.

Gotta go now...

–_⊥^{¡ɐɔıʇǝo}Noetica!^T– 10:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Straights in Gay Bars:Ref Desk/Hum

For the only time in my life, I typed fewer words on a subject than someone else in this case, you) did; that's why my thoughts caused the e/c with you. Amazing, isn't it, how much alike we think? // BL \\ (talk) 01:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. I noticed your post, but all comers are welcome on the Ref Desk. (I haven't forgotten your latest email, btw. It's in the pile of things to do.) -- JackofOz (talk) 01:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Not a problem in either case. // BL \\ (talk) 01:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Désirée Artôt references in Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

Hi Jack! Thanks for adding the info on Désirée Artôt. Any chance, though, that you could add some references? I'd hoped to nominate Tchaikovsky for Good Article status but cannot do so if there are citations needed. Thanks for understanding and for your help. Jonyungk (talk) 22:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the three cites, Jack. Would you have one for this sentence, by any chance: "The general view has been that Tchaikovsky got over the affair fairly quickly, but it has also been suggested that he kept Artôt in his heart for a long time." Thanks. Jonyungk (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Jonyungk. I think I may have made those words up myself. However, it seemed a more than reasonable paraphrase of the fact that he maintained warm relations with - and strong feelings for - Artot, as evidenced by

spending considerable time with her after her marriage whenever they happened to meet
describing her as "the only woman I ever loved"
writing the 6 French Songs for her,
and (according to one theory) coding her name into at least 4 of his works written around that time.

Do we really need a cite for these exact words? We are, after all, supposed to be paraphrasing sources in our own words, not quoting passages verbatim. I'm happy for it to be deleted if it stands in the way of a GA nomination. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you, Jack, but the cite request wasnt my call but Brianboulton's from when he copyedited the article. If a third part asks about it, I surmise, who else will? In any case, thanks for your quick help on this.

BTW, the GA review is posted on the talk page. Interesting reading. Jonyungk (talk) 14:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Review

Could you review this: Scherzo in D minor (Rachmaninoff) I have created (I think it is my first one here). Thanks in advance OboeCrack (talk) 18:10, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, OboeCrack. A good start. I've added some refs and did a little cleaning up. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, hehe, and this: Prince Rostislav (Rachmaninoff)! OboeCrack (talk) 22:29, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

My apologies

I had already realized that today is the last day of the month and that people in other time zones are already in March. I'm sorry for being a little slow sometimes. By the way, there are those who wrote March already a few days ago. Debresser (talk) 20:19, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Proposed new policy

As a recent contributor to Deaths in 2009, you may be able to help decide on a proposed new policy. It is proposed that:

A month should be deleted from the "Deaths in [CURRENT YEAR]" page ONE WEEK after the month ends.

Please opine at Talk:Deaths_in_2009#Proposed new policy. Don't just say

Support.

or

Oppose.

Also state your reasons and participate in the discussion. Michael Hardy (talk) 16:26, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Gilbert Levine (redux)

The GL groupie is back again with the "Sir" issue. I've reverted it back, but I see edit wars on the horizon. May need you for moral support. Thanks, DJRafe (talk) 01:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, nicely argued, but I suspect that the GL groupies won't take to it. Thanks, DJRafe (talk) 01:35, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Time will tell. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed it does. Part of what bugs me about this whole thing is that Levine's page is 5x longer than Neville Marriner's page, for one, and Marriner has done a ton more for classical music than Levine. Oh well. Plus, we've both got more important pages to edit. Thanks again, DJRafe (talk) 01:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

GA Review — Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

Have you seen the GA review on the talk page of the Tchaikovsky article? Jonyungk (talk) 22:47, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Review please!

New article translated from Spanish: Oboe Sonata (Saint-Saëns), please check! Master! OboeCrack (talk) 15:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Done. Quite a few changes, actually. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Your help is a treasure! OboeCrack (talk) 02:02, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Heinrich XXIV, Prince of Reuss-Köstritz‎

Hello JackofOz: Nice work on the Radnai article (and others)! I have recently created a page for the composer Heinrich XXIV, Prince of Reuss-Köstritz‎. I translated it (painfully) from the German Wikipedia article. I must confess that the family is very confusing and my German is not good. Do you have any suggestions? Also, there is a German coin with the profile of Heinrich XXIV: see this page. Do you know if it's possible to add this picture to Wikipedia? Hrdinský (talk) 22:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've had a look over it, and it didn't need much except for some very light tinkering. Good work, Hrdinský. I maintain a list of works that were once famous but have fallen by the wayside, and composers who were once highly regarded but have fallen into obscurity. I'll certainly be adding Heinrich XXIV, Prince of Reuss-Köstritz‎ and his String Sextet No. 2 in B minor to the list. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your time. I appreciate it. Hrdinský (talk) 14:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Benjamin Johnson Lang

I've made one small change in this article concerning his published works-the "Drei Walzer" were by George Chadwick. What got you interested in Lang? Jim Johnston-from whom most of your material was taken. By the way, how did you find that Steven Ledbetter quote about the Tchaikovsky "Piano Concerto" premier? 72.40.71.51 (talk) 23:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

What got me interested in Lang? Well, I've long been a Tchaikovsky-ophile and I'd often read about the first performance of the 1st Piano Concerto. The basic facts were well known to me, but one day I found myself wondering just who this Lang character was. WP had no article on him, so I decided to create one. And, as so often happens, I found far more about him than I had suspected. I check all my own reference sources and I Google lots of things in tracking down refs, and the Bulow quote came up (although it seems to have disappeared from that site now, so I guess it's just my word for it - but I don't make things up). Cheers, and thanks for your interest. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Pull Tchaikovsky from GA Nomination list?

Jack, I'm seriously considering withdrawing the GA nomination for Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky. Your thoughts? Please let me know. Jonyungk (talk) 00:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never focussed my Wiki-activities on GAs and FAs and things of that nature. I just like to make articles I'm interested in as comprehensive as I can make them, purely for my own satisfaction and the pleasure from knowing others will read them and get some benefit from them. That's my payback. So, from that perspective, I'm unconcerned about the GA either way. But I understand it's been a pet project of yours for a long time, and it must be frustrating to see these problems being raised at the 11th hour. I don't see any of them as insurmountable, though. The OS/NS date issue is a bit of a curly one. I've not seen any other articles use the solution that's being suggested. Maybe I focus too much on minutiae like that and maybe nobody else would ever have noticed if I hadn't raised it. -- JackofOz (talk) 02:12, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Page numbers for refs?

Would you have page numbers for the refs for the following info. The GA reviewer is being insistent:

Relevant portions of his brother Modest's autobiography, where he tells of his brother's sexual orientation, have also been published.^[1] Some previously suppressed letters, where Tchaikovsky openly speaks out about his homosexuality, have been published in Russian.^[2]

^ See Tchaikovsky through others' eyes , ed. Poznansky (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1999)
^ P.I. Chaikovskii. Al'manakh, vypusk 1, (Moscow, 1995).

Thanks. Jonyungk (talk) 17:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Jack, please. I'd really like to put this info back into the article. Jonyungk (talk) 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I found the page numbers while searching through Poznansky's Tchaikovsky Through Others' Eyes last night on Amazon. Yay! :) Jonyungk (talk) 13:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Artôt and Poznansky

Found this on p. 80 of Poznansky's Tchaikovsky Through Others' Eyes while searching through the book on Amazon:

"It may be surmised that some of Tchaikovsky's friends, knowing about his homosexuality, decided to help him find a bride, and not only interfered but actually instigated the whole affair, exploiting Tchaikovsky's infatuation with Artôt 's artistic personality. When it went unexpectedly well, some of them realized that if the marriage did take place, Tchaikovsky would untimately become a victim to his relationship with the famous singer and decided to undo their work."

Does this seem a bit far-fetched? As tempting as it is to include this in the Tchaikovsky article, I'm going back and forth on whether this may be a good idea and could use a second opinin. Your thoughts? Jonyungk (talk) 13:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I must say I'd never heard of such a plot before. I don't quite understand why they'd play match maker if they didn't actually want such an alliance to proceed to marriage. Unless it was some sort of joke; or perhaps just a ruse (to which Tchaikovsky must have been a party) concocted in an effort to silence gossip-mongers, by making it appear to the public that he was interested in the opposite sex. It was a common thing for gay men to be seen in the company of a string of attractive women, but never marrying any of them. That way, they'd be seen at least as "ladies men", and suspicions that they had "other appetites" behind closed doors would never arise. I don't see a problem with including it, but I don't really think it adds any value to the Tchaikovsky story, being just the musings of one writer and there being no evidence to back it up. In fact, the evidence I've seen says Tchaikovsky had real feeling for Artot, at least to begin with, and he was devastated when she married Padilla. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Happy JackofOz's Day!

JackofOz has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian,
and therefore, I've officially declared today as JackofOz's day!
For your contributions to both the RefDesk and classical music articles,
enjoy being the Star of the day, JackofOz!

Cheers,
bibliomaniac 1 5
00:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, Biblio. Very much appreciated. It's not my birthday, but 19 March will always be a special day for me from now on. And you've used green, my favourite colour. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 00:43, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Rhyming pairs

How are you progressing with a new article about rhyming pairs? Has it already been started? You can help me find it by linking to it from one or more of the following. They are all on my watchlist.

your talk page (especially this section)
User talk:Wavelength#Rhyming pairs
Rhyme
List of English words without rhymes

-- Wavelength (talk) 00:50, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Wavelength. I did some work on it, but put it on the backburner in light of emerging priorities. I'll get back to it soon, but am still more than happy if you're keen to create it yourself. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

List of longest-serving members of the Australian House of Representatives and List of longest-serving members of the Australian Senate

Re: your post

I say go for it - I've already used Hansard to correct the definition of Father of the House with regard to equal lengths of service - contrary to what Adam Carr said, there would be joint Fathers of the House, not no Father of the House. Paul Austin (talk) 04:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Paul. Could you provide the Hansard ref that shows we have joint Fathers of the House? And does that also apply in the Senate? Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Lee-Steere

It very belated, so in case you missed it, I replied here. Djanga 13:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Djanga. I've made a few minor tweaks. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:38, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Fathers of the House/Senate and Longest-serving Members etc

Here are two examples:

Billy Snedden and Jim Killen Billy Snedden mentions it in his farewell speech).

Clyde Cameron and Billy McMahon (Brendan Nelson mentions in it Cameron's condolence motion)

Here's a Senate example: 1989 resignation of Senator Gietzelt.

Paul Austin (talk) 00:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. Thank you. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Impertinent? About a King of France?

You, impertinent, Jack? Never! The OP has been trying for a week or so to convince assorted interested parties that his own definition of what constitutes being king is what ought to prevail. As for the comment immediately preceding mine, it seemed to be saying that the "why" of the exclusion of Henry from the list of kings of France was somehow unimportant, that all that mattered was the fact of his exclusion. Surely the fact, backed by the "why", makes the most complete answer. Such is the chance one takes, asking or answering, on the Ref Desk. // BL \\ (talk) 04:16, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

John McEwen disambiguation

Hello JackofOz: I recently did a search for John McEwen (the composer), and soon realized that some sort of disambiguation is necessary. As I am unsure of the importance of John McEwen, the Australian Prime Minister, could you make a decision to change "John McEwen" to the disambiguation page, or create a separate page?

John McEwen, 18th Prime Minister of Australia
John McEwen (athlete), American hammer thrower
John Blackwood McEwen, Scottish classical composer
Sir John McEwen, 1st Baronet, Scottish politician

Thank you, Hrdinský (talk) 16:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Done. We now have John McEwen (disambiguation), with links to that page on all the articles you identified. I took the opportunity to do a little light tinkering with the composer's page, which meant doing some reading about him. He sounds well worth getting to know, so I'll keep an ear out. Thanks. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:27, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! Hrdinský (talk) 03:00, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks

Hey Jack,

Many thanks for your continuing support on making the Australian National Academy of Music page great.

Matt

59.101.247.184 (talk) 06:20, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, Matt. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:24, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Richard Goldner

On April 5, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Richard Goldner, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 18:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Piano technique

Hello from Germany, JackofOz, and thanks for your profound information. ;) Uka (talk) 07:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Heh. It didn't feel very "profound" to me, but thanks for your kind words. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Hugh read it?

A recent note from Mhicaoidh put me in mind of our favourite author. Read Hugh yet? I'm keen to know your thoughts, if you've brought yourself round to the ~~trial~~ pleasure yet. Gwinva (talk) 09:17, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear, Gwinva. Confession time. I did read the first page then fell victim to John le Carré Syndrome. In other words, it didn't grab me by the heart and soul immediately (not that I realistically expected it would), so I allowed other matters to assume higher priority in my life. I have it in my stack of reading - purely as a matter of deep principle given that I'd prevailed upon you to send it to me across the waters, so I owe you at least that much - but it keeps getting pushed further down as newer and more exciting reading material arrives from parts near and far. It's still in pristine condition, I assure you. Thanks for the reminder, and I will use some "spare time" over Easter to give it another go. I assume the Easter bunny will have brought me some delicious chocolates with which to remove the otherwise ordinary taste in my mouth occasioned by the reading of the works of said Hugh Desmond. Best as always. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:27, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

What? More exciting things to read? I don't believe you. Think of it as an adventure, the exciting challenge of encountering just how badly plotted something can be. Or just remind yourself that it's very short, and the trial will soon be over. :) Gwinva (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Concert Allegro (Elgar)

On April 7, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Concert Allegro (Elgar), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 10:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Goldners date of birth and others

Dear JackofOz, Richard Goldner had been born on 23. June 1908 in Krajowa/Craiova (Romania). The source of this information is (among others) the register of marriages in the archive of the Jewish Community in Vienna (http://www.ikg-wien.at/).

The Goldners arrived at the end of March 1939 in Australia, World War II began on 1. September 1939!

Your sentence: “Pullman's makeshift chamber ensemble had been playing the Große Fuge in the Warsaw Ghetto in August 1942 when they were rounded up and sent to Treblinka, only one of them surviving.[3]” seems to be problematic.

Peter Kohn (referring to Suzanne Baker) writes within his article in the AJN (10.5.2007), that the Warsaw Ghetto Symphony Orchestra (not a chamber ensemble) had been playing the Große Fuge until the musicians were rounded up by the Nazis. Although this information – reportedly - bases on text passages within Goldners unpublished memoirs, it seems not to be very realistic. I could not find any indication, that the Warsaw Ghetto Symphony Orchestra gave concerts after middle of April 1942 when the Nazis imposed a performance ban for two month. Soon afterwards they started shootings of selected Jews and on 22.7.1942 began with deportations of about 7000 Jews daily to extermination camps. Adolf Berman reported, that Simon Pullman and his spouse accompanied orphans who had been deported to Treblinka at the beginning of August 1942. (See: Michal Grynberg: Words to Outlive us. Voices from the Warsaw Ghetto, New York: Metropolitan books, 2002, p. 118.)

Within the booklet Michael Shmith, David Colville (Pbl.): Musica Viva Australia. The First Fifty Years, Sydney: Playbill Pty. Ltd, 1996, you can find some more information about Richard Goldner and his work. --Migu53 (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for A Colour Symphony

On April 10, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article A Colour Symphony, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 00:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Ernest Walker

Hello JackofOz: I compiled a list of compositions by Ernest Walker (now in my sandbox) from WorldCat and this list of compositions by Ernest Walker (this publication is very difficult to decifer!). After I finished, I realized that there are many date discrepancies (date of composition, date of publication, etc.) with those already on the web page. I tried to be careful when compiling the list. I'm just not sure which dates are correct. Is any part of this list useful on the Ernest Walker page? Any thoughts? Hrdinský (talk) 06:22, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Hrdinský. I used that document as one of my sources for the article, but I used Grove V for the details of the works I mentioned. I think a list like yours is very useful. I'm away from home right now and can't check any of the details. I'll be back later today and will be able to do so then. In the meantime, I don't see a problem with adding your list to the article. Well done.

Did your interest in Ernest Walker come from reading the article I created, or were you aware of him previously? Me, I'd only very vaguely heard the name, but knew nothing about him. I wrote Works associated with Paul Wittgenstein last week, and he's on the list as someone who wrote 3 works for Wittgenstein, so I decided to do some research and discovered he was worth an article. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello JackofOz: I only know Ernest Walker because of his compositions for viola. I noticed his article had been written from my list of composers. I am very busy for the next few days, but want to review data/dates again and see if I can make a better product. I really enjoyed the article by the way. Good work! Hrdinský (talk) 15:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Rose and Ottilie Sutro

On April 16, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rose and Ottilie Sutro, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 08:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Change of section heading

I added a comment at the bottom of the section "Glandular", suggesting a change in the heading to something more meaningful. I was hoping that you would see my comment and make the change yourself. Eventually, I made the change to "Letters of a word rearranged to make two words". I hope that my change is acceptable to you. If it is not, please feel free to change it again.

I understand that, as new questions are posted and older questions rise higher in the page, the older questions are apt to receive less attention than before. Also, as new revisions are made to the page and older revisions fall lower in the page revision history, the older revisions are apt to receive less attention than before. Also, I realize, from seeing the recent record of your contributions, that you have been busy on other pages besides the Language Reference Desk. Therefore, it would probably have been better if I had suggested such a change earlier. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK issue

Hello! Your submission of Duo Crommelynck at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 03:20, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Revised version suggested. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello! Your submission of Peggy Stuart Coolidge at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Shubinator (talk) 06:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Why am I doing this to myself?

Look here, but don't torment yourself by actually reading it. I just wanted to give you the context for the rhetorical question. Obviously, even though the hour is early by my standards, it is well past a sensible time for me to retire. Perhaps I will sack out under a bridge somewhere. // BL \\ (talk) 03:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Heh. You might well ask. Maybe you're a masochist. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Easter

You beat me to it. I was going to say exactly the same thing. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:42, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Great minds and all that... Our respective humility inhibits further elaboration. 0:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Johann Herbeck

Jack, I was hoping to find some greater assurance that Johann Ritter von Herbeck really is the same Johann Herbeck mentioned in several Bruckner biographies. I do realize that Herbeck is not a common name like Richter or Strauss. But I wonder why Bruckner biographers consistently omit his "von" but don't deny Beethoven his "van." James470 (talk) 00:54, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, James, Well, I think there are three separate questions:

The two articles I merged were most definitely about the same person, unless 2 people with virtually the same name, the same nationality, working in the same field, shared exactly the same day of birth and exactly the same day of death. Technically possible, but extraordinarily unlikely, I would suggest.
Now, there may indeed have been another Johann Herbeck who worked around that time, but I'm no expert and I've never heard of such person.
As to why the Bruckner biographies have him as Herbeck and not von Herbeck, it's probably because he got his "von" only in 1874, three years before his death. For the great bulk of his life, he was simply Herr Herbeck, so it's appropriate to refer to him that way in a biog of another person. For an encyclopedia article, however, he gets his full final name.

This is a very handy source for some further updates to the article. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Just now I got the idea to look in the "Personalia" appendix of Watson's biography, and sure enough, Johann Herbeck is listed with the same birth and death years and it also says he was involved with the premiere of Schubert's unfinished symphony. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. James470 (talk) 03:01, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Peggy Stuart Coolidge

On April 25, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peggy Stuart Coolidge, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Royal broil 12:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Farrell

After searching the local library catalogue, I have found an anthology of biographies which includes him. Will see what that has to offer. Gwinva (talk) 22:05, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Have added a bit in. Thanks for introducing me to him - I had never heard of him, either. Gwinva (talk) 08:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. Amazing how such prominent people can become so totally forgotten after their death, isn't it. But at least he left a recorded legacy. No such luck with Alma Moodie. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Duo Crommelynck

On May 1, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Duo Crommelynck, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 12:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Category:Appointed Australian Senators

Seems a rather unnecessary category. This is a heads up for the discussion I've started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics. Digestible (talk) 17:27, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Responded there. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Richard Farrell

Hello! Your submission of Richard Farrell at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Shubinator (talk) 18:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The nomination got removed because of unresolved issues. You can put it back in at the end of the Articles created/expanded on April 24 section on T:TDYK with your response. Shubinator (talk) 01:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Ernest Manheim: Ethnicity and extraction

I am German and made the translation of the German Ernest Manheim article for en Wiki. Manheim was born in Austria-Hungary and became a US citicen. His ethnicity is Jewish. Your comment on your edit puzzles me a little. What is in fact the difference between ethnicity and extraction?--Hans555 (talk) 17:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I may have muddied the waters, for which I apologise. "Extraction" seems to be a fairly vague term. It doesn't necessarily refer to ethnicity, or to citizenship, but it could refer to both. I wasn't aware that he was of German Jewish stock; I was focussing on his being born in Hungary. Maybe it's best to dispense with the word "extraction" and say that he was born of German Jewish ethnicity in Hungary, at that time part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. I hope that helps. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Jack. I changed it. Have a look and report back.--Hans555 (talk) 13:29, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Honorary

I consider myself honored. Спасибо! :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 23:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk page discussion

Would you be able to help out with explaining what happened here? I removed some unsourced text from the article in question, and I've notified the editor who fact-tagged it, and the editor who started discussion on that talk page (though they haven't edited in many months). My concern here is with your original addition of the material now removed, and your later removal of another editor's attempt to comment out the material. My views on how the article should be expanded are at the article talk page. Carcharoth (talk) 21:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I failed to find an obituary for J. G. Phillips. Would you know where to find one or where to confirm the birth and death year? This edit says the birth year is from the "LC name authority file", but I can't find anything confirming the death year Carcharoth (talk) 21:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi. Info on Phillips is scarce indeed. Odd for a man whose signature was on millions of bank notes and whose name was known to virtually every adult Australian and lots of younger people. It's possible the manner of his death has caused some issue here. There'd have to be something in the newspaper archives from 1986 if an online biography does not exist.

I did add the information about Phillips and his wife dying in a suicide pact, because I remember it being a news item at the time. It was explained that they chose to die in their prime rather than wait for inevitable old age and its associated burdens. This didn't exactly "shock the nation", but it certainly shocked many people who knew Phillips personally or by reputation. This is clearly imprinted in my memory. I didn't add a source because, like now, I couldn't find one. I assumed someone would track one down soon enough and add it. It's possible that I've misremembered - but I'd bet $$ I haven't, that's how sure I am about this. I could check in my own records, but I'm out of town for a couple of days.

About the commenting out - that just seemed unnecessary for a statement that was already fact tagged. That tag provided a level of warning to casual readers (caution: this statement might not be true). Hiding it in comment brackets - it may as well have been deleted entirely. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

That makes things a lot clearer. Thanks. Good luck finding a source. Carcharoth (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

PS. Dsp13 has found stuff, see here. Carcharoth (talk) 22:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on "assign against"

71.236.24.129 (talk) has given you a fresh piece of fried chicken! Pieces of fried chicken promote WikiLove and hopefully this piece has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a piping hot piece, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Bon appetit!

Spread the tastiness of fried chicken by adding {{subst:GiveChicken}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Enjoy!

W. Baker

We-ell... actually, a full stop isn't "required" in the man's name. WP:CRIC#STYLE says:

use either W. G. Grace or WG Grace for the title of the article, depending on the article creator's personal preference, and always create a redirect to the other style.

I don't mind in the least about your edits, and actually have come to prefer the style with the full stop so might have ended up moving it anyway in due course... but it's not required. Loganberry (Talk) 00:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

What's going on here then?

Let me get this straight. Your name is Jack (ditto), you have Irish and Scottish ancestry (ditto) and you hail from Australia (I lived there once upon a time). If I didn't know any better I would think I was your sockpuppet. :) Jack forbes (talk) 22:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahem! Sorry, that was just my feeble attempt at a wee joke. :( Jack forbes (talk) 23:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Heh. No sockpuppets around here. We can't afford them, what with the global economic crisis and all that. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello, JackofOz. You have new messages at Talk:Michael Strogoff#Title.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Rollback

Hi Jack. I noticed you reverting vandalism on my watchlist and I thought you might appreciate having rollback, so I've added the right to your account. It's pretty simple and straightforward to use and you can read more about it at WP:ROLLBACK. The main condition is that it's only to be used on clear and obvious vandalism. I hope you find it useful! Cheers, Sarah 16:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks, Sarah. -- JackofOz (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your thanks

I'm glad you enjoyed Raptio. It took some work to disentangle it from bride kidnapping, history of rape, and Frauenraub. And there are Rape (disambiguation) and Raptus too. I was going round in circles. Would you care to add your voice to those that don't want Raptio deleted? BrainyBabe (talk) 23:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Done. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind being recommended

In welcoming a lost-looking newbie, I somewhat unthinkingly recommended you as the sort of person they could ask for help (since my IP changes, so I don't have a set talk page to give them). I hope you don't mind; you sprang to mind as someone who would be likely to a) notice they had asked b) help them in a friendly manner c) know the answer to their question d) set a good example/ be a positive influence.

They might not ever ask you anything, but I thought you should probably know that I effectively handed out your business card :P Sorry if you'd rather I hadn't: let me know if you want me to avoid this in the future. 89.168.96.79 (talk) 00:13, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the testimonial. Not sure I can live up to all that, but I appreciate your words.

I don't have any probs with my "business card" being handed out on a one-off basis, but I guess I'd prefer it it were not a regular occurrence. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

[1] See Tchaikovsky through others' eyes , ed. Poznansky (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1999)

[2] P.I. Chaikovskii. Al'manakh, vypusk 1, (Moscow, 1995).

[1]

[2]