Talk:Tiger

Archives
Archive 1 Archive 2

tigers vs bears

It's reasonable to mention that brown bears also killed tigers (including adult male tigers). Otherwise this section is looking somewhat biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.218.12.80 (talk) 20:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

No because that isn't a common occurance at all, and when this does occur this is mainly because of a fight over food or protecting cubs. However, the opposite can be said as adult siberian tigers have killed adult brown bears. There are some that even put bear cubs as a prey item of tigers because this tigers killing bear cubs isn't out of the ordinary.Mcelite (talk) 21:29, 29 February 2008 (UTC)mcelite

What does your "no" mean? There is an account of tigers killed by brown bears (including male adult tigers). Your "no" means that you want to favor only one side of the conflict. Did you read any original research paper on this subject?

My no means that it doesn't happen often enough to mention. Yes adult male tigers have been killed by brown bears and vice versa. I do study all big cats including the small cats. There has been some research done on this, but not extensively. You could even watch Animal Planet or Discovery Channel programs which sadly at times out due scientific journals because you can visually see what's going on.Mcelite (talk) 03:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)mcelite

In Peter Matthiessen's book, Tigers in the Snow , he writes that fights have gone both ways, and that both species avoid the adult male of the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kron650 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Very true especially since cats often try there hardest to avoid fights which is an actually reason why house cats run away from dogs. They try to avoid confrontation as much as possible.Mcelite (talk) 17:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)mcelite

"My no means that it doesn't happen often enough to mention". Killing adult brown bears by tigers does not happen often enough, however, it's mentioned. The other way around happens as well, I don't see any reason to hide this info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.64.77.99 (talk) 10:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well it has to be cited from a reliable source that shows that the fights do go both ways and that it is not biased.Mcelite (talk) 16:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)mcelite

+1--Altaileopard (talk) 18:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

See Talk:Tiger/Archive 2#brown bear as prey--Altaileopard (talk) 18:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

For instance, russian scientist Kostoglod examined all reliable encounters (until 1977) and found that in 9 cases a brown bear has killed a tiger and in 11 cases the other way around.

Kostoglod V.E. Relations between Amur tiger and Brown and Black Asiatic Bears in the Primorsky region // Rare mammal species and their conservation. Moscow, "Nauka", 1977

Another modern scientist, I. Seredkin, has mentioned 12 known cases when a tiger was killed by a brown bear.

Seredkin, Ivan. The ecology, behavior, management and conservation status of brown bears in Sikhote-Alin (in Russian). Far Eastern National University, Vladivostok, Russia, pp. 1-252

There is no modern or historical evidence of male fully-grown brown bears killed by tigers. The largest one (see Geptner and Sludsky) is a 170 kg male adult bear which is far from being a big Ursus arctos lasiotus. Brown bears are also known to kill adult male tigers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.218.12.80 (talk) 14:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

page can not open. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pharohxz (talk • contribs) 23:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

"There is no modern or historical evidence of male fully-grown brown bears killed by tigers."

Did you not read the wikilink?: Talk:Tiger/Archive 2#brown bear as prey.--Altaileopard (talk) 14:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

THAT ALtaileopard link doesn´t prove anything ( it has no scientific reports for example) is biased and full with the participation of a tiger fan that posts there what he wants. Well, tiger wikipedia link is full of BIASED SUPOSITIONS too, by the way. Is a sad true, why tiger and cat fans destroy the reality and beauty of tigers and felines in general with fantasy stories and hoaxes.I work here with fauna too, I´m a researcher and a protectionist. We are trying to protect the iberian lynx btw. But let´s separate facts from preferences,please. Is very well known that the biggest brown bear ever confirmedly killed by a siberian tiger was only a small brown bear with 170 kgs ( Kaplanov) ( Amur full grown male brown bears ( Ursus arctus lasiotus) stay at between 300-360kgs when over 15 years old). Is very well known that, on the other hand, full grown male tigers were already reportedly killed and eaten by adult brown bears ( Kostoglod,Sysoev, and many others,reported that, I can provide more scientists names and reports for whoever wants it...). People have a lot of overestimation on tigers, but lack a lot of scientific sense: First- anatomically, brown bears have denser bones, are stronger, have thick fur, much bigger stamina, than siberian tigers. Brown bear claws are no joke can reach 9 inch and teeth maybe not as long as tiger ones, when compared animals of around the same size. Though really big bears ( 1500 pounds or more) have bigger teeth and stronger bite.However bite strenght doesn´t matter for animals that use much paw strikes. And brown bears have much stronger paw striking. In californian pitfights, a grizzly bear killed male lions with few paw strikes ( I can provide the descriptions of that happening)and even bulls. Tigers are agile ( but for that they have weaker bones), have strong paws, hook shape claws ( like polar bear and american black bear), strong bite and big teeth. These are also excelent weapons. But let´s say a tiger with 500 or really big at 600 lbs, would have an hard time to fight with an adult full grown brown bear that can be on the 700, 800, 1000, 1500, or even over 2000 pounds mark ( very rarely). Russian scientists gathered data of tigers taking brown bears, and only observed female and cub killings by tigers and one young male with 170 kgs ( with an half the size of a full grown bear....). On the other hand and differently there are reports of brown bears killings and taking full grown male tigers (not to say many cubs and females). Also siberian tigers are a part of the diet of brown bears ( or were because tigers are very rare now), because brown bears were already seen killing a tiger that defend his killing carcass and after eating the carcass start to eat also the tiger. ( I can give more info about this for whoever wants it). Also there is some informations on Interspecies conflict link(http://en.allexperts.com/q/Interspecies-Conflict-3754/) and forum ( http://en.allexperts.com/q/Interspecies-Conflict-3754/) ( on which is debatable who´s the ultimate predator for example or who has advantage on a fight) that´s runned by scientists, zoologists and experts, and they all agree that big bears ( brown and polar) have an advantage over tigers. Some of them are cat specialists,by the way. So I hope that the tiger wikipedia should refer this too, and not saying, with no backup, just that tigers take black and brown bears, whenever they want. These 8 % of their diet ( that´s only true if you gather both brown and black bear) and regarding brown bears is only for juvenile and small bears, show a false pretending in favor of tigers. So this wikipedia sound like an hoax for every scientist, I´m really sorry. Tigers are also part of the menu of brown bears but is stupid to argue that they are part of their diet. Both species have more rather territory dispute than properly a prey-predator relationship, of course, specially when we talk about adults relations. The defecation act on the kills is made by both species which clearly indicates a dispute not a stupid joke like some say of prey-predator relation... So do as you wish. Interestingly, is that there are more than one tiger wikipedia, each one show different facts, as the same for bears. And contradiction is vulgar on all of them. So we should believe in which?? I believe in scientific reports, I´m afraid... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.174.37.201 (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Oviously you've never seen a tiger up close but if you want to see one in person one day I suggest you think that again - their stealth and power is amazing. A tiger can kill an adult person in just a matter of seconds!--96.232.59.59 (talk) 01:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes that sounds very scientific SineBot. Powley (talk) 19:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

A bear can kill a person with just one full paw swipe, I don´t care if a tiger kill a person in seconds... Irrelevant. A brown bear isn´t a person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.174.37.220 (talk) 03:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Now is impossible to edit this joke of wikipedia informations...LOL. So you tiger or cat fans jokes now must feel really happy... LOL. Interestingly is that your joke about tigers and bears is denied by several web links. So people find your info somewhat biased, not?

Male tigers vs. male lions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This is all very interesting but has nothing to do with improving the article. See Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Any further discussion on this should be taken off-Wiki. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 11:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, as much as it is true that the biggest male tigers are about 100 pounds heavier than the biggest male lions (400 vs. 500 pounds) one should not forget to mention that tigers live in colder countries and that therefore they are quite adipose compared to lions as they are made almost solely of muscles and bones. And also one should mention the dense mane is a superb protection of the endangered neck and throat area. Tigers have a naked neck and lack this protection. Regarding all this a male lion is much stronger and a better fighter than a male tiger. --Mustafa Mustamann (talk) 01:31, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, biggest of tigers can out grow biggest of lions by 150 to 200 pounds. Secondly most tigers live in India and India is a very hot place. Bangal Tigers are like lions build in muscles and bones. Amur tigers have thick fat laylers. So, your argument that tigers are adipose is false. I think you have never seen a tiger-versus-tiger fight. They usually fight to the end. And who said that lions are stronger than tiger. Tiger are symbol of power for a reason and that's because they are very, very powerful and much stronger than lions. So in an epic battle between an adult male tiger and adult male lion, the tiger would win but the fight would be really close and to the end.Upol007 (talk) 14:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Male lion is called king of the jungle he dosn't even live in the jungle; they live in grass lands. The male tiger is the biggest of all the big cats —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.15.160 (talk) 15:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, in fact the male tiger is the biggest cat found in the wild, but the biggest cat of all is the Liger. They can weigh as much as 1000 lbs, twice as much as a very big lion Upol007 (talk) 14:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not a real species though. So it doesn´t count as it doesn´t occur naturally in the wild. It's rather a human-made experiment —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.183.20.76 (talk) 00:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It is indeed interesting to know who the winner of this big fight would be but considering some research I did, the tiger would win most of the time. In fact, the only time the lion was a winner was in a unfair male lion vs. tigrees fight and even then it bearly won (thanks to its big mane). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.93.76 (talk) 04:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

This isn't such a close fight as some people may think. Rather, the tiger is a clear winner in my mind, and, when statistics are counted, which cannot be ignored, give it the edge. This argument is mainly based on the fact that tigres are larger than lions. In fact, much larger than lions sometimes. They will weigh about 160-210 pounds more campared to the African lion (the Siberian tiger was the one compared), so I think this can make all the difference. However, body mass is not the only major weapon that the tiger has. Tigers have larger paws as well, with which by the way they will swipe faster than lions. The canine teeth of an average tiger can grow as long as four [4] inches, while a lion has canines that measure 3.1 or 3 inches (this can make a difference whent it comes to the fatal bite), and speaking of the final bite, I may say that the bite of a tiger has more pressure as its skull structure is wider rather than longer as opposed to that of the lion. Agility is without doubt a factor ... and the tiger has it too.

SOME MORE ARGUMET:

Largest lion in the wild -- 690 lbs. [male man-eater shot dead in Africa]

Largest Siberian [Amur] tiger in the wild -- 840 pounds

Largest Bengal tiger in the wild -- 870 pounds

Largest lion in captivity -- named Simba. It weighed it at more than 820 ponds

Largest tiger held in captivity -- forgot its name. Was of the Siberian subspecies and had a mass of about 1,024 pounds.

So, I hope a good idea is created - TIGER IS THE STRONGER FIGHTER ! - --96.232.63.175 (talk) 23:53, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am loving seeing people try to outright throw it down. Please don't state things as fact and pretend like you actually know what you are talking about. This is all theory. And there has been discussion about size. First of all that is not all that matters especially when there are other contributing factors TO size (and otherwise for that matter) such as climate and fat content. Carrying on- to people who say Bengal Tigers are heavier (which they are, BTW)...150-227 KG for a male lion...180-248 KG for a male Bengal Tiger. (except in colder climates where they will have more FAT)Powley (talk) 20:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Tiger's poor fate

To me tigers are mysterious,dangerous, and adorable ...of course ppl would think why do you find an animal that can rip your face off so adorable?

Well if you knew as much as i did about tigers you would know that as cubs their fathers will sometimes attack and possibly even kill their cubs just because of pure jealousy...of course if the mother were to interfere then they would die as well....

Because of their beautiful coats they are able to hide in their environment....but are also hunted because of it....of the many types of tigers 3 are extinct just because of this...and now all of the tigers are highly close to being extinct...they are very endangered.

I'm sure those have heard that there are people that tearing down trees...where if you look at it over 3 billion species live...including the tiger in these areas...this is why the zoos have been taking special care of them and why there are secret locations on where they are trying to regain the loss of tigers.

Many people in China have a belief that various tiger parts have medicinal properties killing them for purposes of medicine. There is no proof to support these beliefs. The use of tiger parts medicine use in China is already banned, and the government has made it clear that if they were to be caught this would be punishable by death. This has been banned in China since 1993. Still, there are a number of tiger farms in the country where they are breeding the cats for MONEY. It is estimated that between 4000 and 5000 captured, wild animals live in these farms today.China's wealthy businessmen are known to eat tiger penis as they feel it is a must do thing.

As you can see some people are sick...truly sick...but its in there heritage and though we have laws,there is somehow still animal cruelty and there is nothing we can do as hard as we try...fortunately there are people who but their lives in danger not only by being around these ferocious cats but because people are still hunting them and yet as they put their lives in danger they take care of these big cats and usually create a special bond with them appears...

I find hippos adorable and people often ask me, "Jay, why do you find hippos so adorable when they could rip your face off?" All fun aside, there's a good book about the use of tigers in Chinese medicine called "Tiger Bone & Rhino Horn" and the IUCN and WWF operate a program called TRAFFIC which monitors illegal trades in the animals. traffic.org. Both would be good sources for improving this article's coverage of those topics, imo. --JayHenry (talk) 04:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Tiger (6 votes) is the collaboration for April-May 2008

Nominated 2008-02-01;

Support:

1. .Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
2. --JayHenry (t) 06:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
3. --Altaileopard. Looks good. Some more citations in the text would be nice... and I will expand the range a little more.
4. -- Bobisbob (talk) 16:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
5. -- Anaxial (talk) 07:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
6. -- Shyamal (talk) 11:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

• Like lion was last year, large and a bit of a mess. A few have poked into it a bit but would really need a concerted push and a collaboration would facilitate this. Also instrumental in making a Big Cats Featured Topic. A con is we have a number of cat articles so it may be good to do something really different....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
• Visibility/importance. This article gets viewed over 200,000 times a month! --JayHenry (t) 06:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
• Looks good to me. Bobisbob (talk) 16:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
• Time for another high profile animal - and they don't come much higher than this. Anaxial (talk) 07:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Just in case it's useful, my sister is a tiger expert at ZSL. I'd be happy to contact her to try to get pointers to sources needed, if that would be helpful. Mike Christie (talk) 22:46, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

How long can they live?

I wanted to know how long tigers can live but it is not written in the article. Is their average life span comparable to the average life span of lions? --Tubesship (talk) 07:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Tigers and lions have similar life spans, but cosidering the "royal" fight some male lions have for power, they only live up to ten years in the wild, while tigers tend to live slightly longer. In captivity, both lions and tigers live up to 25 years, but most tipically bettween 18-22.

Max. weight recorded

It says, "The heaviest wild Siberian tiger on record weighed in at 384 kg..." but according to the Record's World Book, the largest male of this sub-species surpassed the 1,000-pound mark, which was almost 20 years old and held in captivity. Should we check this and maybe have some cleanup or additional info? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.93.76 (talk) 04:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The wording could be improved but I suspect there is no need to remove the 384 kg thing. While unclear, it appears to be referring to a tiger in the wild. Animals in the wild are generally smaller and don't live as long, and their characteristics in the wild are usually of greatest interest when it comes to studying of them. Of course there's nothing wrong with also mentioning a record in captivity Nil Einne (talk) 18:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

You know, once I went the Bronx Zoo in the Bronx section of New York City and I watched how the zoo keepers were taking care of a couple of Siberian tigers. The zoo keepers stated that the 9-year-old male was 420 pounds (now, at age of 12, he's 460). I asked why that tiger was so light compared to other amur tigers. She said that captive tigers aren't being fed to the max. because they want them to have a trim figure, so I guess we won't be seeing a lot of 700-lb Siberians until people start paying a lot of money for that, as they did before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.82.81 (talk) 21:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The Tiger's name in Arabic

I suggest that this paragraph should be deleted : "Nimer" (tiger) is a common Arabic male first name,[85] fulfilling a similar function (i.e. calling a man by the name of a strong and powerful animal) as "lion" names such as Leon, Leo or Leonard in various European languagues.

since "Nimer" is not the arabic name for tiger, thats a common mistake most people make, the name Nimer means Leopard in arabic, the true arabic name for tiger is actually "Babr", thats the same as the persian name. Nimer comes from an arabic adjective "Anmar" or "Nimar" which means spotted, which in turn refers to the leopard ( check the arabian leopard sceintefic name ). The arab first knew the tigers from north iraq and from their trades with india, they couldn't have possibly called it nimer since the name doesn't describe it as it is.. I just wanted to make this point clear, thanks. MoeFe (talk) 20:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article ?

I am a tiger fan and I really like these animals a lot. So, my goal is to make this article a featured article, but I'd need some help to identify the weaker parts of this article, what should be done to feature it.--71.190.82.81 (talk) 21:26, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Removed media

I was checking out some older versions of this article, and i have to say that great things are done here. Before it sounded so bad, really! Today, it flows so well. However, I noticed some videos at the end of the old article, which can also be used here.--96.232.61.201 (talk) 01:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Physical Characteristics

I deleted all of the descriptions from the subspecies list, and then put a table in the physical characteristics section, with the lengths, weights and descriptions of each of the subspecies.

Also, I took the weights and lengths from "Tiger Territory", www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger. I don't like using a single source (particularly from the internet) but I thought this was best for consistency, and the site is a pretty good resource. I've referenced the website.

So...what do you think of the changes? I'm not very experienced with using tables on wikipedia, so please clean it up if you think it looks too messy. Alphard08 (talk) 08:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure if I like the table format. It is good that the information about physical characteristics is now in the correct section, but the table format is probably not the best solution to present it. I strongly disagree with the use of the website in favor of written books about the length and weight of some of the species, except you can explain why the author of Tiger Territory is of equal reliability as the authors of the books. --Novil Ariandis (talk) 08:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I've taken into account what you've said, and got rid of the table format. I have to admit, I think it looked a little...unaesthetic, too, as a table! As for using a website, I agree that generally written scientific texts make better resources than sites. Unfortunately, I haven't got access to a book that contains weight ranges and lengths for each of the tiger subspecies, and from what I've seen, Tiger Territory does seem to be better than most other websites - it's certainly very comprehensive. I think someone who has a scientific textbook with information on each of the subspecies should definitely verify the weights and lengths though, to make certain that they're correct. Alphard08 (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)