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September 30

time intervals

What are some commonly used time intervals smaller than a day? Especially those which are used to analyze other time-related data. Examples include morning and afternoon rush hours, standard working hours, "prime time" for television, "peak time" when phone calls are expensive, daylight hours, morning-afternoon-evening, "lunch hour", etc. Procrastinatus (talk) 00:09, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Six-hour clock marks an interesting time-interval. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 02:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And then there's the Ship's bell, too. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 02:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Planck time? That's certainly smaller than a day. --Jayron32 04:26, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What about the interval between the lights turning green and the car behind hooting?--85.211.199.132 (talk) 06:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A work shift (e.g. graveyard shift) which may be as little as an hour or as long as twelve. Dismas|^(talk) 06:30, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Love & marriage?Froggie34 (talk) 08:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eveyone seems to have forgotten the most commonly used time intervals smaller than a day: Hours, minutes and seconds, and the related analysis of other time related data such as speed measured in kilometres per hour, breathing measured in breaths per minute, frequency measured in cycles per second, etc. Astronaut (talk) 11:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at your few examples, Procrastinatus, you have answered your own question. They all refer to times that are related to specific events of some kind. Thus they have a use in relating the event to the time of day in which it generally happens e.g. "Rush Hour". A purely technical time interval such an hour or five minutes, could refer to any portion of the daily cycle and does not convey any 'attached' or inherited meaning. Gurumaister (talk) 12:03, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe nobody has yet thought of 'Happy Hour'. Cheers! :-D 87.82.229.195 (talk) 13:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to mention Beer O'Clock, but then realised it was just a time, not an interval. HiLo48 (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Less standardised ones: A moment, a sec, a tick (as in "hang on a moment/sec/tick/jiffy"). Also resps (used medically for respirations - an inhalation and exhalation), beats (of a heart), the monastic services (primes, nones, vespers, etc.). Steewi (talk) 01:32, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is a stint a common word outside Australian English? I would use in the same way as a shift, but a little less formally, i.e. less rigid hours. HiLo48 (talk) 02:08, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stint is commonly used outside of Australian English but is usually used for long periods describing someone's entire er stint in something, e.g. someone had a stint in the navy. E.g. [1] [2] [3] (okay that's Australian) [4] [5]. It may occasionally be used in a similar way as shift but this far less common IMHO Nil Einne (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A beat? --Ouro (blah blah) 06:34, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The old operating system VAX/VMS measured one of its times in micro-fortnights.

204.152.2.82 (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New York Minute?..Hotclaws (talk) 03:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dawn to dusk, the wee small hours and tea time come to mind. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Matins, Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers, and Compline (see Liturgy of the Hours). — Kpalion^(talk) 09:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How can I find out who the writers and researchers who work for Fox News are?

Thanks, Rich Peterson199.33.32.40 (talk) 01:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you watch the closing credits of the shows, they should be listed. --Jayron32 04:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

They also might be listed somewhere on the website. Chevy monte carlo - alt 05:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

They have researchers?! Adam Bishop (talk) 17:11, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestions, in particular, I'll watch the end of show. I couldn't find it on their website, although I might have missed it.Rich (talk) 09:44, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Anglican Saints

Good day to you,

I am trying to find information pertaining to Anglican patron Saints that cover the following areas. 1) Abused Children 2) Adopted Children 3) Abandoned children 4) Foster care 5) Children who have lost guardians/parents to illness, war etc.Lawrence Crampton (talk) 14:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

William of Perth is adopted children, but he may be catholic only? Exxolon (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Our article Calendar of saints (Church of England) may give you some pointers DuncanHill (talk) 15:47, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Saints in Anglicanism, and as I see from another post you are from South Africa, Calendar of saints (Anglican Church of Southern Africa) may also be of help and interest. DuncanHill (talk) 15:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It strikes me that the Holy Innocents might be appropriate. DuncanHill (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised not to see Saint Nicholas on Wikipedia's South African calendar of saints, but he is recognized by other Anglican churches and seen as a protector of children. Marco polo (talk) 18:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Folks, thanks for your input. Most of what you referred me to is what I've found so far. Maybe if I gave you a little bit more info as to why I am looking, it may help. I'm from South Africa where poverty and hardship is rife, though Aids, abandonment and other reasons there are numerous children who are growing up without proper parental guidance,education etc. There are many "Child headed households", or Grandparents having to assume the role of parent as their children have died and left the grand children in there care. One example is of an eleven old who is bringing up his two siblings, stealing, begging at his own educational expense to ensure his brother and sister get an education and a fighting chance in life. Another is of Grandparents raising 26 children left to their care. There basic rights as children have been removed and effectively are abandoned by society through no fault of there own. I wish to set-up a Foundation based on Christian values, principals and provide the family structures and education needed to give them the opportunity to be accepted into and play a role in society as a whole. I am aware there are a number of organisations out there doing similar, but they do not complete the circle and as a result these children end up again being abandoned in many different ways, becoming outcasts of society. Having been part of this incomplete circle and founding my way out. I believe this is my calling from God to try and change the way we address these kind of problems and make a difference. I believe the business model I am putting together will change the way the world looks at solving it's social economic problems. I don't profess to have all the answers, but maybe I can sow the seed that gets others to start thinking and we can all work towards finding the perfect solution. I have done a lot of work to-date, but find myself stuck at finding a name for the Foundation, hence me trying to find something along the line of Saints. If we pick a saint it needs to be cross denomination, yet appropriate. To quote the Bible:

Exodus 2:9-10

(9) Then Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child away and nurse him for me, and I will give you your wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him. (10) And the child grew, and she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. So she called his name Moses, saying, "Because I drew him out of the water." In this long process of faith - and conviction building in Moses, God was laying a foundation in him, in that people of faith parented him during his most formative years. One should never conclude that the first several years of a child's life are unimportant; in fact, it is those first couple of years that one is started down their path of the rest of his life.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it" (Proverbs 22:6).

I am open to any suggestions that will assist in going forward. Thanking you, regards, Larry.Lawrence Crampton (talk) 12:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

St Joseph is sometimes considered in this light, given he raised a child as his own, knowing the child was not his. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help, I think it is the perfect name, God Bless to all of you, will keep you posted on developmentsLawrence Crampton (talk) 14:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How many beer bottles are there in the case?

"The “On Premises” cost ranges from $85 to $115 for about 6 cases of 341 ml bottles" So I should assume there is 24 bottles in the case and that would mean I will get 49 liters of beer for $85? Or it could be 12 bottles in the case. Or some other number? From the way they put it, they assume that most/ average customer would know how many bottles in a usual case. We are talking North America. 76.67.10.16 (talk) 19:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just a starting point, but at my local grocer, a 6 pack of Guiness costs $8. I am not familiar with what "On Premises" would mean here unless you are talking about buying beer at a bar maybe? Googlemeister (talk) 19:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, probably Canada suxx, or just Ontario, since you could not buy a liter of beer in a local alcohol monopoly store chains, Beer Stores and LCBO for any less then $3.80 a liter. So $2 for a liter sounds like a great deal. But not so great since "On Premises" brewing you would need to wait 2 weeks before your beer is fermented, plus then go through hassle of bottling it etc. Still researching internet, and would probably decide against it. States are the best:) 76.67.10.16 (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

US American here and when I hear/read "case of beer/soda", I take it to mean 24 containers whether they're bottles or cans. That's not only from my day to day use of the term as a customer but I also used to work in a convenience store and worked with some of the ordering/inventory. The distributors would refer to 24 containers as a case. 12-packs were either called 12-packs or, more rarely, half-cases. Dismas|^(talk) 20:08, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx Dismas! You perfectly answered my question. Much appreciated. 76.67.10.16 (talk) 20:13, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Toronto is pretty close to the border, isn't it? Just cross over into the US and buy beer :P Rimush (talk) 13:24, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is almost 100 miles each way, so you would probably need to buy a lot of beer at a time for it to be worthwhile. In that case though, there might be import-export regulations that would apply, so just going to Niagara Falls to buy beer might not be that practical. Googlemeister (talk) 13:57, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Booze cruise. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

Is a HighBeam Research Subscription Worth the money?

I was going to ask "Any ideas how much 'Personal use' subscriptions to this service cost?" finally found after putting in a fake username, fake e-mail, fake password etc, they only have the prices at about step 3 of the signup procedure. Apparently they are just 'phishing' for details (they at least have an e-mail address if enter a real one) and there are only two options:

Yearly subscription for $199.95
Monthly subscription for $29.95

It seems they go out of their way to be 'evasive' about costs. Example [6]
Is this service worth the money? Anyone have experience with HighBeam? ☣ 220.101 talk^\Contribs 03:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd try the databases available through your public library first. 67.122.209.115 (talk) 05:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Google auto-completed “Highbeam research scam” so I guess plenty of other people have experience of this business. The HighBeam Research article has on its history page, many attempts to included things which get taken out again. Perhaps the article needs a spam template and to then go to AfD. --Aspro (talk) 08:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

PAL speedup and music development?

Have there been any research on the effects of PAL speedup on development of tonal recognition or something similar to that? Do people develop relative pitch based on the sped up notes? How noticeable is the effect in the general population? --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:00, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know of any research, but very few people would notice a pitch change of just over half a semitone. Even the small percentage of the population who have perfect pitch would be able to detect the flaw only in films playing music in a known key. They might, for example, just assume that a piano has been tuned slightly sharp. Modern digital methods now correct the pitch, and this has probably been applied to those films where the flaw would be most noticeable (e.g. classical concerts known to be playing in concert pitch), where someone with perfect pitch would detect a very irritating shift. Of course, concert pitch has varied over the centuries by more than a semitone. By the way, research has shown that the few people who have perfect absolute pitch are usually born with it, they don't learn it, though they do learn to use it. Many more people can learn relative pitch, but this is reset regularly, so watching speeded-up films would not affect them. Dbfirs 23:33, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Antilived, you may be confusing relative pitch and absolute pitch. Relative pitch is the ability to identify intervals and pitches from the context of a starting pitch. It doesn't matter if the starting pitch matches a standard tuning system or not, as long as the intervals are are correct. The intervals between pitches remain the same in the normal and PAL sped-up version of a movie.

> Even the small percentage of the population who have perfect pitch would be able to detect the flaw only in films playing music in a known key. They might, for example, just assume that a piano has been tuned slightly sharp.

Dbfirs, a person with well-trained absolute pitch listening to a movie played with PAL speedup would hear all the pitches shifted out of tune by 7/10 of a semitone, no matter what key the music is in. (That is, no matter what tonic or "home pitch" each musicial piece uses.) For example, if a C pitch was recorded while filming, a person with absolute pitch could tell the PAL sped-up verison plays back as a slightly flat C sharp, no matter if the pitch is part of a musical piece in the key of C major, G major, or any other key. --Bavi H (talk) 04:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks, I was aware of that, but I agree that my answer above came over as slightly confused. My argument about assuming a piano tuned slightly sharp is still valid. My point was intended to be "how would the listener know what frequency (pitch) was originally recorded, unless it was a well-known piece by a well-known orchestra?" Dbfirs 08:48, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have perfect pitch, but I sing in a group that often performs music at A-415 ("Baroque pitch", about a semitone below the modern A440 standard), and some of the members do have perfect pitch. I once asked one of them how he coped and he said, "you adjust". I didn't ask about the PAL speedup, but I imagine the answer is the same. -- BenRG (talk) 04:32, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the answers guys. The fact that most people don't notice it is probably why they chose to use it the first place. --antilived^{T | C | G} 03:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

... and, of course, many cheaper "record players" and cassette players ran either too fast or too slow, and few people noticed. (Those who did notice bought high-end equipment with speed adjustment if they could afford it.) Dbfirs 08:17, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hardy Amies & Wood & sons pottery

Could any one please help? I have a milk jug made by Wood & Sons a pottery firm that is no longer with us, the backstamp reads " Wood & sons, " Ermine " designed by Hardy Amies, I would like to hear from any one who could supply any date to this work. Thank you. Tony.86.13.212.96 (talk) 11:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Victoria and Albert Museum has some Wood and Sons "Ermine" pieces, dated circa 1979. You can see an example here. From looking through their collection of Wood and Sons pieces, it seems Hardy Amies did a few designs for them. DuncanHill (talk) 12:05, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a picture of the set here, giving the date as 1978. DuncanHill (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the image, it saves having to ask why they went belly up.--Aspro (talk) 18:23, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What would you call a 'tie' like this?

I refer you to an ad by Scott McAdams - academic who it is, anyway, I just want to know what you would call a tie like the final one he's wearing at 0:23? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4aL-GNjPas&feature=player_embedded

AlmostCrimes (talk) 17:12, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

a Bolo tie? ny156uk (talk)

Confirmed; that's a bolo tie. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talenthouse

I'm participating in a contest, in order to have a shot at winning I have to get people to vote on my project, which means garnering support from friends. I have friends and relatives, but nowhere near enough for me to win, and I do not have a profile on any other social networking sites like Facebook or Twitter. Oh yeah, and I only have four days. What do I do? 24.189.87.160 (talk) 22:57, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Panic--85.211.193.110 (talk) 07:47, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily. If you have a very brillant project then likely even people who don't know you will vote on it when they see how brillant it is. Just tell people you do know and hope for the best. Nil Einne (talk) 10:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the vote of encouragement. And to the person that told me to panic, I mean really, if you have nothing helpful to say, then why bother? 24.189.87.160 (talk) 08:33, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lowest score in bowling without dropping any pins

I (ten pin) bowled today and got a (for me) very respectable score of 146. I also only missed 5 pins in the entire game. It got me thinking...what's the lowest score you can get where you knock down every single pin in a game? I don't really understand the scoring system so this may be a really simplistic answer. Anyhoo, anybody? ny156uk (talk) 23:37, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you get a spare each frame, knocking down no pins with your first ball and all ten with your second, you will get ten points for the spare and no bonus points, as after a spare, your bonus is only for the first ball of the next frame. Over ten frames, that's a hundred points. To fulfil your requirement of knocking down every single pin in the game, you would then have to knock over all ten pins with your bonus ball, giving you a bonus of ten points for the final frame - a total of only 110. Warofdreams talk 00:35, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ten-pin_bowling#Scoring explains the scoring system. (I didn't understand the scoring either until just now. After reading it, you can verify yourself that 110 is the lowest possible score where every pin in the game is knocked down.) --Bavi H (talk) 00:45, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In Candlepin Bowling it's possible to bowl a 10 that isn't a spare or a strike, so there the minimum score for knocking down all pins is 100. I'll bet it happens from time to time. APL (talk) 01:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto Duckpins. Some jerk on the Internet (talk) 17:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

World Location automobile

So far I know that Fiat, Renault and PSA Peugeot Citroen are the only articles that map of world locations of plant assemblies. What about Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Bentley, Lotus, Vauxhall Motors, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Opel, Porsche, BMW, Saab and Volvo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.43.132 (talk) 02:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The use of "oracles" in decision-making processes

Resolved

– enough, mostly by 92.28.254.154 and "Dr. Joy" (Cuddlyable3;) – thank you for your responses. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was recently reading an article about the Dalai Lama which talks about HH's practice of using ~~the traditional Tibetan Oracle~~ traditional Tibetan divination ("mo") to help him make important decisions:

"After I consult human beings and these oracles, if there's something clear, something which I can now decide, then I decide," he told me. He said he had made "all major decisions" from the age of sixteen with the help of the oracles, and he had become convinced that they are correct.

This got me wondering about similar Western-style practices, specifically the Sortes Virgilianae and other forms of bibliomancy.

1) Has anything approaching "scientific" (ie., non-anecdotal) evidence ever been found to support the useful/discernable existence of such meaningful synchronicity? (whether or not a plausible model to explain it has so far been developed)
2)→ Is there any psychological or cognitive-scientific support or explanation for why applying random chunks of information to a problem-solving task might help in the formation of relatively successful or advantageous decision-making about that task?
WikiDao ☯ (talk) 03:34, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How is this different from consulting a trusted religious advisor in any other religion? People often will ask for the advice of their priest, minister, rabbi, or imam. While it may not be for all people, faith is an important factor in decision making for many people. --Jayron32 03:43, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Nechung Oracle is claimed to be a "medium" for the Tibetan deity Nechung. He goes into a trance and supposedly channels this entity directly, which pronounces its views on the situation at hand through him. A bit different than your more every-day sort of spiritual adviser. The article also mentions HH's use of "mo divination", which is actually closer to the Sortes Virgilianae thing (and was actually more what first got me wondering about this question). WikiDao ☯ (talk) 03:53, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Meh. I don't judge. Sounds like some rather intense prayer, but I am still not sure how this is functionally different, except by a matter of intensity, from other prayer. Generally, clergy tend to pray to the deity they represent. --Jayron32 04:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, the deity is speaking audible words apparently. But by "oracle" is also meant the practice of "mo divination" which seems to be a form of Astragalomancy, which is very similar, again, to the Sortes Virgilianae. If there is no answer to either of my two questions it is not, of course, necessary to say so -- I'm just wondering if anyone out there has anything on this. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 04:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on the religion and the advisor, it's often the case that the advisor claims no special source of information from the divine, only that they have studied scripture a great deal and that they will give detached advice in confidence. Paul (Stansifer) 11:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I unfortunately gave a misleading link in my original question, it's actually about the practice of Mo (divination). Do you know anything about how that might work...? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 20:23, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On a slightly off-topic tanget, I'm intrigued by the use of the expression "...human beings and these oracles." Does it imply that the Dalai lama sees the oracle as somehow not human, Or have we simply lost something in translation? HiLo48 (talk) 04:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There may be some sort of disconnect between the oracle and the medium used to commune with the oracle. The article on Nechung Oracle implies that the oracle is seperate from the medium, but I am not sure the precise nature of the relationship between the two concepts. --Jayron32 04:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again: Nechung is a non-human deity who speaks through the court oracle. Mo is a random selection from among inanimate pieces of paper with things written on them. Both are referred to here by HH as "oracles". WikiDao ☯ (talk) 04:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

→ I reworded the question after (some of) the above comments were made to try to clarify the nature of the question. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 19:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Answer to 1) No. 2) Somewhat. That is what is used in many creativity or brainstorming techniques. More technically, adding randomness may help you search the problem-space for a better solution that what you had previously. It enables you to escape a local minima, and is used in some artificial intelligence techniques such as simulated annealing or genetic algorithms. Original research: it may help you make a decision which may be better than prevaricating and making no decision. You did not specifically ask, but common "oracles" in the west include fortune-telling, tea-leaves, horoscopes, tarot cards, and so on. I have been trying to remember the name of a novelty toy which looks like a snooker-, pool- or billiard-ball, which you shake and shows an answer at random in a window. Edit: it is a Mystic 8 ball. 92.28.254.154 (talk) 20:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, thnx! :) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 20:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the "Magic 8-Ball". WikiDao ☯ (talk) 20:51, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to mention The Dice Man, a nasty unpleasant violent novel in my opinion. The article surprisingly says it comic, but it seemed completely unfunny to me. 92.28.254.154 (talk) 21:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is also Flipism. 92.29.114.118 (talk) 20:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify on some of the overly-mechanistic answers above, human brains are not computers, and oracles are not exactly stochastic processes. it's more of an holistic shift than a mere introduction of randomness. this is best explained by analogy: say you're waffling between two two different cell phones (different looks, different features, different prices even, but on balance equal to each other in your mind). you happen to notice that the cute stranger standing next to you looks approvingly at phone A, and that tips the balance in your mind so you buy phone A. This isn't just a random influence: that cute stranger added a new dimension to the decision process - you now consider the social ramifications of the two phones as well as their technological elements - and that modifies your decision model as a whole. Likewise, if you are faced with a decision and you consult an oracle, well - an oracle is always a complex set of meaning relationships wrapped in symbolic form. the outcome of the oracle will add a new symbolic dimension to your decision model, which can go a long way to helping you make the decision even if you're not actually aware that a new dimension has been added. It can seem very mystical ("wow, I consulted the oracle and suddenly I just knew what I wanted to do"), and who's to say it isn't?- -Ludwigs2 21:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The OP asked for a scientific explaination. The above isnt that. Although the oracle influencing the subject like a celebrity endorsement in advertising is interesting speculation. 92.29.115.43 (talk) 19:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, 92.29, I see you have asked another question at the Science desk about that. I'm still giving that some thought, but I'm not sure it's what is most going on here. Anyway, again, I am not asking about the Nechung Oracle here, but about Mo (divination). And, yes, I am interested in a "scientific" (preferably cognitive scientific) explanation! Thanks, WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:50, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A cruder "oracle" than those used by HHDL that is in regular use is the Coin toss. Its purpose is usually to put a difficult decision out of any person's control, which serves the dual purposes of getting a quick decision and absolving anyone of bias in the matter. A section in the cited article notes a psychoanalytical application of coin tossing. A pious monk decided to choose two random Bible verses to discover God's will for him. The first verse was Mat. 27:5. The second said "Go and do likewise" (Luk 10:37). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What did the pious monk do then? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He became a friar of potatoes when he was reborn as a chipmunk. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification of the use of the word "oracle": the OED defines it as "Something that is believed to prophesy, or give oracular replies or advice" and cites a 2000CE usage, "We consulted the I Ching, the ancient Chinese oracle, and the reply reinforces your need for experienced help." And it is about the use of "oracles" much like the I Ching that I am wondering about here. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 00:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

CNN Website

Who or what determines why you might be blocked from commenting on CNN's website?--ChromeWire (talk) 03:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Website administrator of their website. --Jayron32 03:51, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The site guidelines list types of postings that are unwelcome, and states that if you post more than three pieces of material that need to be removed from the site, your account will be disabled. The Terms of Use repeat this in legal language. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bees/wasps, why do they sting?

What do they gain/lose by stinging?--85.211.193.110 (talk) 07:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is discussed to some extent in Stinger#Zoology. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 07:57, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on the critter. There are non-social wasps which sting, what they gain is keeping you away from their nest. Such wasps have smooth-stingers which they keep, and can sting over and over. Honeybees, and some other varieties of bee, have barbed stingers, which remain in you. This almost invariably kills the bee, however since honeybees are social, then the loss of an individual bee has little bearing on the health of the nest; had it not stung you, and you gotten in and damaged the nest, it would have caused a much greater problem for the colony. --Jayron32 15:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jaryon has the gist of it. Also note that the Meleponini are Stingless_bees, and do not use stings for defense. Some of them have interesting alternative deterrent methods, such as pulling out an attacking mammals' hair.SemanticMantis (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How short is Yao Ming?

What is the shortness of Yao Ming? I can't seem to find it anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.7.4.135 (talk) 09:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His article says that he is 7 ft 6 in (2.29 m) short. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 09:30, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whoa! that's tall. I guess the answer to the OP is 'not very'. Richard Avery (talk) 09:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sun Mingming is 2.36 metres tall. Therefore, Yao Ming is -0.07 metres short. ~A H 1^(TCU) 15:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't that be 0.07 metres short or -0.07 metres tall? Nil Einne (talk) 03:17, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Wadlow was 2.72 m tall, which would make Yao Ming 0.43 meters short. Given advances in medical science, it is quite likely that there will never be anyone as tall as Wadlow (his super height was due to a medical condition, one that also ended up shortening his life), so he's the ceiling for height, (or baseline for shortness) as it were. --Jayron32 03:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

increasing my height

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

hey, i know that hanging exercises increase height, but am i supposed to do them in a single stretch? my fingers really pain a lot after a minute, but i'm really aiming for a time limit of 10 minutes, so, is it ok if i hang for a minute, then a little break, and then another minute and a break and so on? and if that's ok, how long should the breaks be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.250.90 (talk) 10:09, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We cannot provide medical advice. Please speak with a competent medical practitioner. → ROUX ₪ 10:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

e-mail id

How to create an e-mail id?115.241.123.210 (talk) 15:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are several providers of free webmail in our article. Do you just mean an account, or some other meaning of "id"? Dbfirs 15:57, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Theseus

What day,Month & Year did Theseus kill the Minotaur? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.87.138 (talk) 17:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As it says in the first line of our article Theseus, "Theseus (Greek: Θησεύς) was the mythical founder-king of Athens". Following the blue link on "mythical" may help you understand why this is not a question we can answer. Ka renjc 17:31, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

They did sometimes try to assign dates to events like that though. Someone (was it Aristotle?) came up with dates for the (semi-)mythical Kings of Athens, which for Theseus is 1234-1204 BC on our calendar. So presumably he killed the Minotaur sometime before that, maybe the 1230s or 1240s BC. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:24, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't he become king immediately on returning home to find his father had just killed himself? Is there any suggestion anywhere in the earlier stories of even a time of year, bright midsummer perhaps, or just as autumn was fading and the last leaves falling? 148.197.121.205 (talk) 10:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, so I guess it would have been 1234 BC, at least according to Eusebius of Caesarea. I don't know where he got that date from though, since none of the ancient Greeks who wrote about Theseus seem to have mentioned anything like that (not Euripides, Aristotle, or Plutarch, anyway). Adam Bishop (talk) 11:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Further to that, we might assume that Theseus was sailing during the summer, because it's difficult to sail the Mediterranean at other times of the year, so perhaps he killed the Minotaur in the spring? Of course, that might be applying a bit too much logic to a mythological story. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, here is another clue. Plutarch says that Theseus "went down to the sea on the sixth day of the month Munychion", then killed the Minotaur on Crete. Then, "after burying his father, Theseus paid his vows to Apollo on the seventh day of the month Pyanepsion; for on that day they had come back to the city in safety." According to our article on the Attic calendar, Munychion was typically April/May and Pyanepsion was typically October/November, so he left in the spring and returned in the autumn. So, following Plutarch it was probably in the summer, and following Eusebius it was probably 1234 BC. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just because a story is mythological doesn't mean that it can't also (at least at core) be true! :-) 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:33, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Haircut Name

I've been looking all over for the name of this kind of haircut.

http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/8085/topheric4.jpg

Does anyone know the name of this kind of hair or know a gallery where I can find more models like it? 98.77.210.36 (talk) 19:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scruffy?--Artjo (talk) 06:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would say it's simply "parted on the left". It's a bit messy but that's the basics. Dismas|^(talk) 10:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moptop Hotclaws (talk) 13:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

French railway: announcement jingle

[7] If you listen to this sound-clip, at about thirteen seconds in, you hear the bizarre and unique jingle which preceeds announcements at various stations in France. Does anyone know where I could find a clean recording of it, and/or any information about it? Thanks! ╟─Treasury Tag►estoppel─╢ 20:42, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You can also hear it at the start of this video too! ╟─Treasury Tag►inspectorate─╢ 20:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SNCF jingle. And if you parle francais, theres a website from SNCF about their branding (including le jingle): Here. Fribbler (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

Three questions:

1) What are the main wind directions at Palm Springs, California?

2) Where can I find out information about the times of sunrise and sunset and the angle of the sun at different times of the day and year there?

3) What is meant by the architectural term 'raumplan'? I have looked everywhere I can think of and have found no definitions. Is it even a real word?

148.197.121.205 (talk) 20:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(1) According to this site, the prevailing wind in Palm Springs is NW throughout the year.

(2) Google "local sunrise sunset calculator" and you'll find a few. I've used this one before and it gives sun angles too, but it's not the only one out there.

(3) "Raumplan" is a German word meaning "room plan" or "layout diagram of the rooms in a building". See the description of this file on Commons for a use of the term.

- Ka renjc 20:19, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Does that mean the wind comes from the northwest or goes to the northwest, I can never remember. The impression I was given before was that raumplan was a style of designing a building, though noone seemed to know exactly how that would work. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 20:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ad 3: In particular, Raumplan is a term used by Adolf Loos, Frank Lloyd Wright and others to strees that they were planning in 3 dimensional spaces (space = German Raum) and not in 2 dimensions of classicistic architecture. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sunset is kind of an ill-defined concept in Palm Springs, though, since the town is at sea level and 11,000 foot San Jacinto Peak lies directly to the west, right at the edge of town. Looie496 (talk) 21:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not sunset just because the Sun goes behind a mountain. Sunset is computed with some sort of notional horizon, maybe based on the geoid or something like that. This makes lots of sense, actually, because the brightness of the sky depends mainly on that, not on whether you happen to be in a mountain's shadow. --Trovatore (talk) 21:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any way of finding out when the sun does go behind the mountain, though? I am sure it would have some effect. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 08:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly speaking, that is going to depend exactly where in Palm Springs you happen to be. Googlemeister (talk) 19:41, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In response to your earlier question about direction, the wind direction is the direction the wind is coming from (ie. in this case the prevailing winds comes from the NW). - Akamad (talk) 14:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Blowing up a caravan

Various shows have destroyed caravans in a variety of spectacular fashions (Brainiac: Science Abuse, Top Gear...). I'm wondering what would be needed to do this? Like, if I was to try it, I'd need permission from someone, right? Would I need some kind of licence for handling explosives? What else would need to be done in order to legally blow up a caravan? And as a side note, how much might this cost? Vimescarrot (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have little hope of being able to answer your question under any circumstances, but certainly far less if you don't say just what you mean by caravan. To me a caravan is a group of vehicles traveling together (more or less a synonym of convoy). In that case the cost would depend, among other things, on just how many vehicles we're talking about. --Trovatore (talk) 21:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh crap, now that song is playing in my head.... --Trovatore (talk) 21:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC) [reply]

(Note: In UK-style English ;) a "caravan" seems to be a kind of RV.) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 22:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently a travel trailer is the preferred term. Mikenorton (talk) 22:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I had images of the shelling of the Iraqi retreat to Basra, during the first Gulf War. Blowing up that caravan no doubt cost a lot financially, in addition to making me sick to my stomach, although apparently it was within the traditional law of war. --Trovatore (talk) 22:17, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You would need an explosive licence. [8] Think currently it is about £500 per year. Also, police and the aviation authority will need to be informed if your pathological hatred of the mobile home is going to result in a really big bang. --Aspro (talk) 22:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a list of fees for licences from the Health and Safety Executive:[9] Your local council and fire brigade will also want to know what you might be storing in the cupboard under the stirs, or wherever you are intending to keep the stuff until required.--Aspro (talk) 10:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cupboard under the stirs sounds particularly sinister. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the help. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Government hierachy for four different countries

We would like to know the government hierachy for these four countries, from lowest power to the highest, for example:

United States has mayor, then governor, representative, senator, and president. Sorry if we missed anything, I was just trying to make an example.

The countries I need to know are Germany, China, Russia, and Japan. 64.75.158.193 (talk) 22:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think your question completely makes sense as stated. I know of no hierarchy that puts congressional representatives in the United States above state governors. They have different functions; there's no chain of command. Also, clearly, the governor of (say) California has much more power than your average representative, perhaps more than any single representative. --Trovatore (talk) 22:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps what the person is trying to say is that the U.S. has local (municipality/town/township/county), state and federal governments. The question may be what the equivalents are in those other countries. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think so, too. Though I'm not sure if a representative really is "above" a governor in U.S. states. Anyway, for Germany it would be: Bürgermeister (head of a municipality) / Oberbürgermeister (for cities) - Amtsdirektor (in the states BB and SH) / Amtsvorsteher (MV and SH) / Bürgermeister (RP) / Samtgemeindebürgermeister (NI) / Verbandsgemeindebürgermeister (ST) - Landrat (head of a rural county) - Regionalverbandsvorsitzender (in the state BW) - Regierungspräsident (in the states BW, BY, HE and NW) / Präsident der Landesdirektion (SN) - Regierender Bürgermeister (Berlin) / Bürgermeister (Bremen) / Erster Bürgermeister (Hamburg) Ministerpräsident (all other states) - Bundespräsident / Bundeskanzler. The corresponding administrative divisions are: Gemeinde - Amt/Samtgemeinde/Verbandsgemeinde/Verwaltungsgemeinschaft (in some states) - Landkreis - Region (BW only) - Regierungsbezirk (in some states) - Land - Bund. Some states/towns/cities also have structures on the sub-municipal level. 195.88.117.149 (talk) 09:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Or they might me talking about the protocolar order of precedence. — Kpalion^(talk) 07:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a more fundamental misunderstanding here too, because it's confounding State and Federal authorities. Within the state system there's a distinct hierarchy, and within the federal there is too, but comparing the two is a bit of apples to oranges. Shadowjams (talk) 07:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the OP's assumptions are more confused than that. Even within the state and federal governments, there is full seperation of powers in the United States. The executive, legislative, and judicial branches are coequal branches of government, with different spheres of operation. Thus, the President is not above any congressman or senator in the United States. The President is above other members of the executive branch, such as cabinet Department heads, but he has no authority over Congress, and is not "above" them. It is a lateral relationship. The same sort of relationships exist between state Governors and state legislators. Furthermore, there is not a clear supremacy of the federal government over states in many areas. Certain powers are expressly reserved for the states. While the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution has made the states subject to certain provisions of the Constitution (specifically the Bill of Rights), there are still LOTS of things that the United States Congress is prohibited from legislating with regard to states. Sometimes, Congress will find loopholes around these restrictions (see Power of the purse), but at least in principle, there are things that state legislatures can do which Congress cannot, so it is inappropriate to place Congress over the State legislatures in terms of heirarchy. --Jayron32 03:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, the OP should realize that in the U.S., there are similar offices on the local and state level that "equate," if you will, with senator, representative and president on the federal level. States not only have governors, but also senators and (except for Nebraska), members of a second body who go by various names such as state representatives or assemblymen or something else. Cities not only have mayors but also city councils or some such body, and some cities and towns have no mayor or council at all, but are governed by multi-person boards (often called commissioners or freeholders) who have combination executive/legislative powers. — Michael J 12:50, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pencil smudging

When we draw or write with pencil, pencil smudges are always a big eyesore for me. Why is it that pencil marks always smudge off? Is there any way to prevent this as much as possible? 64.75.158.193 (talk) 22:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aww crap!!! I put "Pencil smuging" instead of "Pencil smudging"!!!! Lol... 64.75.158.193 (talk) 22:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you using an HB or softer grade pencil?--Aspro (talk) 22:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See Pencil#Grading_and_classification. Harder leads will produce less smudging. Dismas|^(talk) 00:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, that's so. With any grade of pencil, the biggest single smudge-culprits are probably your own hands. Keep them as clean as possible, and blow off excess pencil dust away from the paper before it accumulates. You can additionally protect drawn pencil lines against accidental writing/drawing-hand smudges if you cover your drawn or written lines over with clean tracing paper; that gives you a smudge-free and translucent hand-rest. Drawings, especially those using softer leads, can also be fixed once finished. Haploidavey (talk) 00:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Being left-handed in a culture that writes from left to right (and vice-versa) is a problem for smudging because you're always dragging your hand over what you've just written. Assuming the majority of Arabs and Israelis are right-handed (because the majority of humans are), they might have an inbuilt culturo-orthographic problem here, but I've never heard any complaints. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I frequently write in Arabic, but it's not difficult to do right-handed. I usually end up tilting the paper slightly so my hand doesn't get anywhere near the ink/pencil, just like left-handed people do when writing in English. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

October 4

Fan produced toys

I have a question. Another editor and I are having a heated conversation regarding things like notability regarding Transformers toys produced by unrelated companies founded and run by fans. I stated that such fan companies were not worth an honorable mention as they are basically bootlegs produced to cash in on the franchise. The apposing editor claims that they can be worth an entire article if reliable sources can be found. Yet I don't see how something that isn't even worth bringing up in a wiki/wikia is worth creating an article over, let alone a section or honorable mention. So who's right here? Sarujo (talk) 00:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The other editor is right in that if they can find enough reliable sources, then they are eligible for an article per WP:GNG and the companies that produce them may be notable per WP:CORP. Their legality isn't up to us. See, for instance, Pink Floyd bootleg recordings for an example. And finally, this question, since it deals with WP policy, would fit better at the Help Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 00:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Polo Players

Added a heading Rojomoke (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC) [reply]
why are polo players only right handed? 98.25.123.208 (talk) 00:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because if a right-handed player and a left-handed player were galloping to whack the ball from opposite directions, their horses would collide head on? Deor (talk) 01:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Same applies in field hockey. Don't know enough about ice hockey to comment on that. HiLo48 (talk) 05:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not in ice hockey. Dismas|^(talk) 05:25, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's a rule that the mallet must be held in the right hand.[10] A blacklisted site claims the rule was instituted in 1975 for "safety reasons" and that "3 players on the world circuit are left handed". Clarityfiend (talk) 02:05, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hardest possible save

Today the San Francisco Giants won the National League West (woo hoo!), with Brian Wilson getting the save. It wasn't a very hard save; he came in with a three-run lead. If it hadn't been for a great defensive play in the bottom of the 8th, he wouldn't have been eligible for a save at all.

And it got me to thinking—what's the hardest possible save? I think if you come in in the fifth inning or earlier, you can't get a save; it would have to be a win. So the hardest possibility would seem to be if you come in with zero outs in the sixth inning, with a one-run lead and the bases loaded. Has anyone ever finished out a save in that situation? If not, who's gotten closest? --Trovatore (talk) 04:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A pitcher can get credit for a save coming into any inning, as long as he comes in with a lead and is not the pitcher of record. Joaquin Benoit got credit for a seven-inning save on September 3, 2002 - the longest in Major League history - when the Rangers' starting pitcher Aaron Myette was ejected one batter into the game, reliever Todd Van Poppel threw two scoreless innings during which the Rangers took the lead, and Benoit pitched the rest of the way with Texas never surrendering the lead. Van Poppel got the win in this case; he did not have to pitch five innings since he was a reliever, not the starter. That said, hardest save is a matter of judgment. The hardest would be for a pitcher to come in with a one-run lead, the bases loaded, and nobody out; the difficulty quotient becomes higher according to how early he is inserted into the game. I have no idea who has pitched the longest and earned a save after coming in in such a jam. --Xuxl (talk) 15:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, there are basically two ways to get a save:

1) Come in at any point with a lead of 3-or-less runs and be the last pitcher of the game

2) Come in with any lead and pitch at least 3 innings, and be the last pitcher of the game

Most people know about the first one, but the second throws people for a loop. There have been times when someone picks up a save without even realizing it, for example I saw an interview with a long-time starter who had a single save in his career. It was his first day back from the Disabled List, and his team was up by like 9 runs in the 6th, so his manager put him in as a reliever, just to give him some low-pressure throws in a game situation. He finished out the game, and it wasn't until he saw the box score in the next days paper that he realized he had a save. As far as answering the question, difficulty is of course subjective, but hypothetically, the hardest possible save would be to come in with a one-run lead in the bottom of the first with no outs, as the visiting team, and be the third pitcher of the game, pitch all nine innings and get a save. Technically, according to the rules, the starter is not the pitcher of record unless he pitches 5 complete innings, if he does not by rule the second pitcher is automatically the pitcher of record. So, it is then possible to come in as the third pitcher in the first inning, with no outs, and pitch the rest of the game, and earn a "save". --Jayron32 15:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The second pitcher would need to record at least one out to be eligible for the win. Also, according to the rules, the official scorer has the discretion of not awarding the win to the second pitcher if, in his opinion, his presence was brief and/or ineffective (which would surely be the case if he exited after only one out in the 1st inning and the bases loaded); in this case, another pitcher is given credit for the win, i.e. the one who pitched effectively for the last 8 2/3 innings. So the second pitcher has to make a tangible positive contribution to the win, which is generally seen as either closing out an inning while maintaining the lead, or pitching one full inning. In Van Poppel's case, he pitched two full hitless and scoreless innings while coming into the game unprepared, which was considered good enough; a shorter or less effective stint would most likely have led to the official scorer granting the win to Benoit. In the official rules, the win is still considered the most important statistic, with the save being ancillary. All that to say is that it's very unlikely we'll ever see a save of more than 7 innings ! --Xuxl (talk) 16:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can you still end up with a save if a game goes into extra innings? Googlemeister (talk) 18:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but unless I'm missing something (as I evidently did above when I missed the third-pitcher thing), you can only pitch for one inning at most in that case. You'd have to be on the home team, your team takes the lead in the top of the 13th (or whatever) at a time when you have not been put into the lineup, then you take over in the bottom of the inning and close out the game. --Trovatore (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Subversion name meaning

Good time of day. I need native speaker's view of Apache Subversion name meaning. The question itself is on the Subversion talk page (briefly: what is primary "version" or "subvert"). Thank you. 81.200.20.197 (talk) 06:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC) (ru:Grain)[reply]

As a native speaker, seeing the word "subversion" without context, I would normally read it as related to "subvert". Only if there was a specific context like "versions and subversions" would I read it as sub-version. --Anonymous, 06:50 UTC, October 4, 2010.

Yes, but once you know that Subversion is a versioning system, that changes things. --Trovatore (talk) 07:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but that's an example of sufficient context. I took the question to be asking about the word itself. --Anon, 16:06 UTC, October 4, 2010.

I suppose this is not the place to bemoan the modern trend to omit the hyphen in sub-version. Dbfirs 08:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is that a real word? I thought it was just marketing, a way to make the most prosaic of tools, a revision control system, seem cool and edgy. You know, like GitHub for lesbians. --Trovatore (talk) 09:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean the original word, or the version control system name? I didn't realise there was ever a hyphen in either. The word comes from Latin (subvertere), via French. The product name I don't recall ever being hyphenated. As far back as 2003 the SVN mailing lists were calling it "Subversion". TFOWR 13:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not intimately familiar with versioning system software but the basic idea is that you use it to keep track of "versions," or specific snapshots of a project's code at a given point in time. Now the name "Subversion" no doubt refers to this but is almost probably a form of double entendre: "subversion" also means efforts to overthrow a political system. So it's a nice mix of technical terminology with "revolutionary" overtones, which makes a little bit more "sexy" something that would otherwise be deadly dull. This is my speculation, anyway, I don't have any real direct knowledge of why they chose the name, but it seems very unlikely to me that this double-meaning wasn't intentional, as it is very clear to a native English speaker. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. It's curious, but current editor of ru:Subversion forces an opposite opinion - he is sure, that "subver[t]-sion" - the only meaning of Subversion :). Dictionary has no sub-version article, so (he think) there is no such word. I'm trying to convince him that Subversion, is primarilly "version", then "subvert" ... but it's vainly :). 81.200.20.203 (talk) 21:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is no such word as sub-version, or at least it is not a common word. Versions in-between major versions are minor versions, not sub-versions. So the only common meaning is in fact the political one. (Hence my response to Dbfirs, above).

Nevertheless, it is clearly a play on words, involving "versions". --Trovatore (talk) 09:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Mr 98. Its almost certainly supposed to be a pun. It literally refers to versions (Look how they've colored their logo.), but you're supposed to catch that it's also an english word and be amused.

The pun may have been more relevant when CVS was the de facto industry standard, and the Subversion project was specifically intended to replace it. APL (talk) 17:01, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. This is relevant. A discussion on "Subversion"'s pronunciation. APL (talk) 17:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is just a mockery. Unless you can hear the difference, I don't. 81.200.20.203 (talk) 21:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a parody of a famous audio clip of Linus Torvalds, but it also shows the intended pronunciation. Pretty much they say it like the normal english word "subversion" and not "Sub-Version".

Still in this context, I always mentally emphasize the "version". APL (talk) 15:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I see :) 81.200.20.203 (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mr.98 and APL give a good indication of how the name `subversion' feels to a native speaker in the target market. Now it is known as `Apache subversion'. I suspect that most of the user-base knew the name before, and also knew of the extant Apache products, so `Apache subversion' does NOT especially bring up the idea of subversive indigenous people :) -- SemanticMantis (talk) 19:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that to someone who knows it, they would not associate Apache with the native group in this context. After awhile it just becomes another company name. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would dispute that it is known as Apache Subversion. The Apache foundation may be trying to bring that about, since they brought Subversion into their project; but I hve never yet heard anybody refer to it as such. --ColinFine (talk) 22:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. People just call it "Subversion" or "SVN". APL (talk) 15:18, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cog shaped thing near Eiffel Tower

My desktop background is a birds-eye shot of the area surrounding base of the Eiffel Tower taken from the second level. I really like the picture but it is ruined somewhat by a strange cog-like shape somewhat near the base of the Western tower foot. It looks so fake and out-of-place that for a while I assumed it was a mouse pointer icon I'd somehow accidentally overlayed to the image while editing it. However, inspection of Google Maps shows the same shape in the same place, again looking quite luminous and incongruous (see here). I was basically wondering if anyone knew what it was. I can't find any information and it looks a bit like a statue or a well or something (though apparently not very tall) --82.2.9.21 (talk) 12:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a castellated air shaft or a French folly. I would judge it to be a lot taller then you.--Aspro (talk) 12:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You can see it in the bottom right hand corner of this picture. Air shaft seems likely. DuncanHill (talk) 12:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly a pissoir? 87.82.229.195 (talk) 12:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Alders has taken a good photo of it. Chimney and Eifeltower(sic). Might even be a water tower.--Aspro (talk) 13:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The RER C line runs (roughly) under that area. It may very well be a ventilation chimney for that. One occasionally sees odd brick chimneys in parts of London, which serve to ventilate the underground. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 16:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I orgininaly wondered that but then looking at the map it would then suggest that RER C goes almost under the north west foundations Eiffel's tower. When the metro was built, they did not cut things that close. What we need is a Parisian to take some up close photos.--Aspro (talk) 21:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This website claims that it is the chimney of an engine room built under part of the tower. Warofdreams talk 22:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice find. Thanks everyone! --82.2.9.21 (talk) 23:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For those who don't read French, the engine room powered the elevators before widespread electrification. Does anybody know whether the underground space has been preserved as well? Paris has a lot of abandoned underground spaces, mostly relics of quarries. Acroterion _(talk) 12:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As for the RER line, I'm pretty sure it runs under the elongated white concrete structure that runs between the Quai Branly and the river, about 100 feet from the river. If you follow it southwest for about 2,000 feet, you can see the tracks running into it. --Anonymous, 08:35 UTC, October 5, 2010.

October 5

Semaphore to English translator

Anyone know of a Semaphore to English translator? I have an image of dancing men (A bit like the ones in the Swallows and Amazons books) and I'd like to read the message. I'll probably just translate it a letter at a time manually in the end though. -- SGBailey (talk) 16:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Help with correcting to the appropriate external link

Hello,

My name is listed as "notable people" of Springfield, Mass on the Springfield, MA webpage. But the link sends the reader to a website of the wrong David W. Evans. I would like to correct this. The "real" David Evans does not have a Wikipedia link, but one external to it.

Thank —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwevans44 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the other links at Springfield, Massachusetts seem to be to Wikipedia articles. However, there is some evidence of Professor Evans's notability here, and the C.V. on his website implies likely further notability once Oxford University Press publishes his forthcoming book, Children’s rituals, habits and routines. Does anyone want to create a stub and fix the link? John M Baker (talk) 18:08, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have delinked Professor Evans and re-inserted him unlinked. I have edited the details of the former US representative. There is now no ambiguity but John's suggestion will open the chance for a blue link. Richard Avery (talk) 18:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's good, but I don't think the former U.S. representative is a Springfield resident, so I've removed him from the list. John M Baker (talk) 18:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]