User talk:Biosthmors

Reply to thanks

Submission?? Also, re ambassador. The program changed a bit from the original format and I have a lot of things tugging at me on WP.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:20, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

TonyTheTiger, Like one of these https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Submissions , if it exists. But no worries. I hear you on the tugging. I'm especially interested in hearing what changed that you didn't like about the changed format, since I'm all involved in that area of WP. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Don't have an official submission. What percent of attendees make submissions? Originally, it was one-on-one. You would do specific editors and articles. Then it was doing a whole class and different classes are structured differently in how they get involved in WP.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:21, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey TonyTheTiger, I'm not sure how many. But it seems to be a good way to get one's foot in the door. Though from 2013, it seems a fair amount of submissions were declined. I guess there was limited speaking space. Interesting that it used to be one-on-one with specific editors and articles. I didn't even know that bit of history. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Request for Course Instructor Right

Thank you for updating my page. I'm new to this and figuring it all out, so if you have any advice or would like to watch my page, I would be very happy for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pangurban22 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

You are more than welcome Pangurban22. I typically only grant the course instructor user right to instructors I talk with. Would you like to talk on Skype sometime later today, perhaps in an hour? Have you read the advice for instructors and taken the training linked there, by chance? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:56, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

And Pangurban22, If you don't want to talk on Skype, that's not a problem. We can continue the conversation here. Someone might grant you the user right. But even if they don't, you can still create the course page in your user space, as what we call a WP:User subpage. It just needs to list all the students and all the articles they are working on, in its most basic form. =) There are more details about how to do so at WP:Student assignments. Best regards. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:04, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Dear Biosthmors, I would love to talk with you and get authorization for an instructor page, but I don't know how to use Skype. Is there a way for me to give you my cell number without making the phone number public? Best, pangurban22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pangurban22 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Pangurban22, how about google hangouts? I can email you my number. I emailed you once already (to whatever account you listed when you signed up). It's not a U.S. based cell number at the moment though. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:46, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Dear Biosthmors, saw your email and responded with my cell number. Best, Pangurban22 (talk) 18:00, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Precious

your first article simple
Thank you for quality articles on medicine such as Deep vein thrombosis, for pondering before doing, for reviewing and watching over medicine articles, for "your first article simple" and generously passing awards, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda Arendt! I'm confident you're an awesome Wikipedian too, so I'll have to browse through your contributions so that I can appreciate them as well. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 07:57, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I was told in 2010 and liked it, see my user page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

GA Tech project

Hi, I see that you are the online person for the Georgia Tech neuroscience student project. I'm watching what's going on there, and I see that some of the students are starting pages that are currently red links, and thus are obviously new pages. I have a feeling that some of these pages may be redundant with existing pages. You may want to work with the class to make sure that they have really ruled out expansion, instead, of existing pages, lest they get faced with merge discussions. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:34, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tryptofish, that's a fantastic point. Let me know if you have specific examples already in your mind that I can bring up. We ran into that problem in 2012 with the class when Alzheimer's disease and prions was created despite biochemistry of Alzheimer's disease existing. (The author subsequently requested deletion presumably because the content was of such bad quality he didn't want the risk to his reputation, but that's just my guess from what the deleting admin told me was on the talk page of the article.) We also had olfactory ensheathing glia created when olfactory ensheathing cells existed (now noted). I already have a meeting with the TA Friday on Skype (Imran) so I can bring up points to discuss then. I've also met and corresponded with a librarian/Campus Ambassador on Skype to help them prepare for technical training sessions. It's a big class, a busy prof, with multiple layers. Thanks for the heads up and if you have any specifics then that could be helpful so that I get them to the right spot at the hopefully right time. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm simply looking at the class page. Two that stand out to me are neuroinflammation and nerve staining, but there may be others. Also, there are titles that have every word capitalized. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for naming those two. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:28, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

It is great that you are acting as a liaison for the GA Tech project, but please don't WP:BITE the new editors, as you did in Perisynaptic (Terminal) Schwann Cells and User talk:Mmcmullen3. Having empty sections is no great sin, especially in a newly developing article; there is no recommendation against such in MOS:LAYOUT that I can see. But instead of giving her guidance, you deleted the sections, admonished the editor in her talk page to go play in her sandbox and implied that you called up her professor over the issues. Perhaps in dismay, the editor has requested the article be deleted (which is how I found about it in CSD). The article looks to me to be a fine starting stub for the topic. We want to encourage and retain new editors, not spank them for minor problems. Thanks, --Mark viking (talk) 23:15, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Mark viking, I'm following this talk thread, so I hope Biosthmors won't mind if I comment here. I've read what you linked to. On the one hand, I kind of agree with you that the message on the student's talk page was a little bitey. On the other hand, I think that you, Mark, are being too hard on Biosthmors here. We already have Schwann cell. The student's new page is a merge proposal waiting to begin. The instructor dropped the ball by letting the editing go this far. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

No worries, Tryptofish. It is true that I probably don't know the full story here and a potentially redundant article is a more serious impediment than empty sections. It looks like I may have jumped to an unwarranted conclusion about why the article was self-nominated for deletion. Apologies to Biosthmors for this. Thanks for your perspective, --Mark viking (talk) 23:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

 Self-trout (see Wikipedia:Trout for clarification if this is confusing) for letting a frustrating and complex situation with a classroom/underdeveloped course page allow me to be WP:BITEey to a newcomer. I'll apologize to the student Mark viking. And thanks for letting me know that was your impression. It is complex. And I see there is already conversation at two WikiProjects (Neuroscience and Medicine) about the topic selection process. Ping to User:LT910001 and Tryptofish about this. We should probably focus all good feedback about topic selection at the Neuroscience Wikiproject (despite WikiProject Medicine overlap) so that it can be compiled into the course page for students to see. I'll meet with the TA on Skype in about 10 hours so if there is one thread at WikiProject Neuroscience (so there isn't fragmented discussion) then it will further along the discussion so that this feedback can ultimately be incorporated back into the course page. People might want to watchlist Education Program talk:Georgia Institute of Technology/Introduction to Neuroscience (Fall 2013)/Timeline as the topics will be specified/modified there. If people are curious about last years output, so that wisdom/feedback can be generated from it as well see User:Biosthmors/Intro Neuro. Thanks to all for their assistance and thoughts. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

 Self-trout I participate in this self-troutment in a collegial manner. --> Anyhow, thanks for the ping Biosthmors! I think we should make a list on Neuroscience with some suggestions about where the topics can be placed. Any feedback could go to the instructors of the course instead of the individual students. LT90001 (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. It's just that the librarian was teaching technical details, and TA was given responsibility for the course page. I'm the ambassador. The professor is the professor. With all of that complexity, actually developing the course page to a respectable level has fallen through the cracks. I take some responsibility for that. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

What'd you trout yourself for, by the way? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:44, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, just to be collegial. LT90001 (talk) 11:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Got it. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Ping to User:Boghog about this as well, who was very helpful for a signal transduction class last semester (thanks again). Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I have updated the page with a list of articles and alterations so that any other Wikipedians can alter as they see fit. That article is here.

your questions, recap, etc

I just wanted to let you know i saw your questions, I just don't really have the time/space to get into it at the moment, but i intend to respond to you. and thanks for following up with me. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 23:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the note! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Skype

I got your Google message. We can catch up any time you like. Are you in Europe or the US at the moment? (I'm in Western Australia - Singapore/Beijing time). --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm in Central Europe time. Sounds good Anthonyhcole. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

So it's 7 hours later here. Any time you feel like a chat, raise me here and I'll switch on Skype. I rarely check email and don't run Skype in the background. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Great thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 11:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Education Program:Gatech Question

Hello Biosthmors,

I am a new user for wikipedia, and I create a wiki page "Granule cell dispersion" on the main wikipedia and I want to put a banner to show this is a student project. I copied what template that showed in the course page for BMED 4752 in wiki, but the banner does not show up in my article.

Do you know why and what I can do?

Thanks! Thomas

Education Program:Gatech Question

Hello Biosthmors,

I am a new user for wikipedia, and I create a wiki page "Granule cell dispersion" on the main wikipedia and I want to put a banner to show this is a student project. I copied what template that showed in the course page for BMED 4752 in wiki, but the banner does not show up in my article.

Do you know why and what I can do?

Thanks! Thomas — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fu Hung Shiu (talk • contribs) 22:26, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

—Darkwind (talk) 23:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Again. —Darkwind (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikihelp

I emailed Newman today; never heard back from Oklahoma. Rjensen (talk) 21:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks so much Rjensen. That's weird I never heard back either. I wonder what it is that makes people go from "that's so cool!" to ignoring your emails. Maybe they're just busy. Odd. Maybe I'll follow up one more time later. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 21:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikimed design

Hi, I have been playing around with the same idea a while ago; also based on the military history project. Adapted part of it to the medicineproject; feel free to use any of the code/elements here (and the subpages): User:Wouterstomp/wpmedredesign. --WS (talk) 09:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Great. Thanks WS. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 09:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Note to self: a potential design to keep in mind: [1]. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:41, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I've taken the plunge

... on malaria ... feel free to add your name as a co-nom, help out at the GAN, or avoid it like the plague! Cheers, Sasata (talk) 15:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Awesome Sasata. I think I'll either assist at GAN or avoid it due to being busy. Good luck! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:25, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

And Sasata, might the offer at Wikipedia:Peer review/Fluorine/archive3 be up your alley? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:21, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

sorry for the delay

For real life reasons (including, most recently, a violently allergic reaction to red wine, heh,) I haven't been able to get back to your emails etc in a timely fashion. I should be able to respond within the next day or two and hopefully catch you on skype. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I hope you're all better, no worries at all. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:33, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

peer review

Hi. Please review and fix "Fluorine". If it's too long, just hit bio and hazard sections.-TCO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.137.171 (talk) 13:55, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Continue the conversation...

Hi Biosthmors, I haven't abandoned the conversation about primary sources, but I did agree with those commenting at the WP:MED discussion that someone's RFA wasn't the right venue to hash that out. Regarding the use of primary sources, I'm planning on sending you an email with my thoughts about it. Zad68 02:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Zad68, please don't email me things about primary sources that should instead be posted to WT:MED, =) as that's where we're discussing things, but feel free to mention other items. And by "those commenting", I think only one person (Axl) suggested it wasn't the right venue. Doc James apparently misunderstood what I was driving at. If it's not fair game at a RfA to bring up, in depth, how one applies WP:MEDRS, when that's the content area one is presenting to the community, then I can't say the venue has much value as much value as I had hoped. Shrugs shoulders. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 05:34, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Agree that Axl's comment was pretty clear. Based on my reading of what Doc wrote, I am pretty sure he didn't think the line of questioning was particularly appropriate for an RFA either, I've ping'd him in this response to see if he wants to clarify. As long as one is close to the norm, where one falls on the spectrum of when a primary source is OK to be used is actually not very relevant to the use of the individual tools that are made available when the sysop bit is set on an account. In every case where I'd be making a change to an article based on its use of a primary source, I would be involved in the content and so would not be able to use admin tools there. As you said, you hadn't been involved at RFA before so maybe you didn't know that. I think !voters familiar with the RFA process understood that and weren't concerned that two active WP:MED editors weren't in 100% agreement on where the "OK/not OK" line falls, but I bet if you and I reviewed 100 edits involving primary sources we'd be in agreement on what to do with at least 80 of them. I will follow up with a comment at WT:MED. Cheers... Zad68 14:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I have discovered through the notification system that my name was mentioned so I am gonna chip in.

There are no formal guidelines about the nature of questions at RfA. As such, any editor, including anonymous IP editors, is at liberty to ask any question. RfA candidates sometimes receive odd questions, including downright frivolous ones ("What is your favourite ice-cream flavour?"). Historically, RfA questions were once called "optional" but that label has been dropped. In theory, any candidate is at liberty to ignore any supplementary question. However doing so risks the accumulation of "Oppose" !votes.

In my opinion, editors should be able to judge a candidate based on a review of the editor's nomination statement, contributions, talk page comments, and RfA tools. There is no reason why supplementary questions should be necessary. However, given that supplementary questions are here to stay, they should be used only if an editor is genuinely still unsure about the candidate after reviewing the candidate's contributions. If unsure, ask a question that will help you to judge the candidate's fitness as an admin. I am very sceptical that the nature of Biosthmors' "grilling" is intended to do this. Indeed many RfA watchers believe that this sort of aggressive questioning is one of the factors causing the reduction in RfA candidate numbers. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

No, thank you

re: "Would you like to chat sometime about your class?" Thank you for asking but no. I've left that unpleasantness behind. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 08:04, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

No worries. I'm sorry for the bother, and thank you for your contributions. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:05, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Ideas for project page

Hi Biosthmors, I was looking again at User:Biosthmors/TestProjectPage and I have a few more ideas, but I lack the know-how to make them come into reality.

• you mentioned before about the progress bars. These are great, I will try and get them on the project page goals if I can.
• Generally there should be more color, and there should be an overall professional feel to the page. It should not look like another dull, boring wikipedia article but it should be vibrant and grab visitor's attention. The light browns of the military history page could be a different color imo, maybe a bright blue.
• Navigation between major parts of the project page should be made much easier with tabs, and give everything a more cohesive and organized look. E.g. the same tabs: Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Translation Task Force should be standardized across more project pages maybe.
• The current project page is good in that it is packed with info, but it is also too busy perhaps. The main project page should be relatively simple and act mainly as a hub for navigation to sub pages imo. Lesion (talk) 01:04, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I think we're in agreement. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 01:05, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

These could go in now, but I assume you were thinking of making it self updating. This currently would become out of date as soon as the number of GA changed... As far as I can see from the wikiproject military history, theirs is self updating since it contains a transcluded template which counts articles placed in a sub page. Lesion (talk) 01:20, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Goal 2: 300 Good Articles: 49% complete

Nice. Self updating would be nice, of course. Feel free to implement. =) I'll be travelling soon. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 01:24, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to make any changes. I was getting stuck trying to make them self-updating, and wrote it off as a bad job. Self-updating goals will have to be a goal for our goals. The next easy target would be the navigation template: Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Navigation

If you have no objections I will make the style similar to the box I just put in, and make it look more minimalist... here is a preview (more links to be added). Lesion (talk) 11:49, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

• Also tweaked the header as an illustrative mock up. I think it is tidier to have all that stuff in the same box. Lesion (talk) 14:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Mnemonics

FYI, a list of medical mnemonics has been started at your suggestion. Warden (talk) 09:29, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, Warden. I hope it one day becomes featured. It would be a great benefit to the readership, in my opinion. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 12:44, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll even tell my friend who just started medical school to see if they might edit it. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 12:48, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Education copyvio

Hey! Are you familiar with this course, re this copyvio? With all the silly, incomprehensible changes to the education course pages, I no longer know how to find a course page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:52, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey Sandy, I'm traveling at the moment, and I just updated my page to say as much. Sorry about that. I don't know anything about the course, but I'm curious. WP:ENB? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 13:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Bios ... methinks the only helpful people at ENB are those I am in touch with via user talk ... no one else there cares. But I imagine I'll be seeing more troublesome edits from that course. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Joining online courses

There are several student editors who I've run into via WikiProject postings and am advising individually. I'd like to help with their courses but I've noticed that they already have two ambassadors signed up on each, though I'm not sure about their involvement. What's the advised next step? Leaving a note for the prof asking if they could use another ambassador while noting that I'm already working with them? Finding a new class and leaving it alone? What do you recommend?  czar ♔ 01:09, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey Czar, I'm traveling at the moment, and I just updated my page to say as much. Sorry about that. Help is always welcome. The question is this: will the students listen? If they're not getting graded to listen, it might not help to "help" them, until the course evolves to adapt to community input. Could you link the course page? I personally just try to build a relationshp with the professor then go from there. Perhaps you could start with an email and ask for a Skype meeting? You could ask at the WP:ENB about who the Regional Ambassador is and see if either they or Jami already has a relationship with the professor, because it's probably not a smart idea to have multiple Wikipedia related people asking for attention. My opinion is that having one's name down as an online volunteer is meaningless, in and of itself. I just use it as a negotiation chip with professors sometimes. (I'll sign up for your course if you do X.) I guess it depends how much time you might want to invest. I tend to invest large amounts of time in content areas I care about, so perhaps you'd get more satisfaction working in another content area? I'm not sure. Thanks for asking! Let me know how it goes, if you don't mind. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 13:31, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

It's more that I'm working with students already across several articles, but I'm not "assigned" as "an ambassador" to the class. So I'm not sure it matters, but I was curious about the etiquette with respect to signing up as an online ambassador when you're already doing the work. czar ♔ 02:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Ah. Yes, sometimes I just end up signing up because I'm helping. But it's your choice. Thanks for your assistance. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:26, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Do I need to ask permission or can I just go for it? Like, did the other two online volunteers on Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2013) just sign their names or is there more of a process? czar ♔ 12:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Czar, I typically try to establish contact with the instructor so that they don't perceive it is random. It could be as simple as emailing them or leaving a talk page message that says "I have been helping a few students in your class so I thought I'd sign up" and maybe a "I hope you don't mind" to be considerate. The email is more likely to be read, though, in my opinion. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 12:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks  czar ♔ 12:42, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Biosthmors. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by LukeSurl ^{t c} 10:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Consensus

Because you have an opinion which you hold strongly you do not have the right to trample upon a legitimate effort to build consensus. The first time may have been a bold edit. The second is vandalism. Fiddle Faddle 12:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Could you point that serious allegation out to me in policy User:Timtrent? There's a lot I don't know about this website. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 12:59, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I see you marked the edit as minor[2], is that in line with labeling it vandalism, User:Timtrent? I await an explanation. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 13:06, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism reversion, something I explained to you I would consider it as, is a minor edit. I have no intention of wikilawyering with you over this. WP:BRD applies. Wikipedia is based upon consensus. You and I each have to submit to it. We may seek to create it over any matter at any time, but we are then bound to it. You have no rights to trample over a consensus building exercise. You may seek to influence it, but you may not pervert its course. Fiddle Faddle 13:09, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Timtrent, I'd like to know why you consider my edit here vandalism: [3]. I have no idea why you consider it vandalism. Please explain. As far as I am concerned, it is currently an unsubstantiated negative allegation (just like a BLP violation), which is why I'm rewording the title of the section. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 13:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I perceive this a legitimate questioning, so I will answer you. The first time you remove something as important as a banner designed to drive people to a consensus building operation it is viewed as a bold edit that is then reverted and discussed under WP:BRD, though some other editors might have considered that first banner removal to be vandalism. We each make a subjective judgment about what does and does not constitute vandalism based upon many factors, including the experience of the editor making the removal. You will note my polite edit summary "Please do not simply remove banners while there is a discussion underway. Consensus needs to be reached first. on the first reversion.

You almost immediately reverted to remove the banner a second time. To me this had all the appearance of being vandalsim. I reverted this and marked it appropriately as a minor edit. I reverted it because my subjective judgment showed it to me to be vandalism, despite your many good edits elsewhere. I have told you this on you page here, but I took great care not to use a template series such as {{uw-tdel1}} (etc) because I felt it would be an inappropriate marker for your talk page. It is the template series I would have selected for a less experienced editor.

Most, all, experienced editors are capable of errors. I am, you are. I perceive you to be in error because of your behaviour, you perceive me to be in error because of mine. And that is perfectly fine. Neither of us is perfect. If you can show me how I am in error in my belief that consensus must be made on matters and that this instance needs to run to its conclusion then I will accept it with good grace. IN return, of you understand why I see you as being in error I will edit my comments above, or suggest that we, together, remove this section from your talk page (though you are at perfect liberty to do so anyway).

The principle of consensus is the rock, such as it is, that Wikipedia is built upon, and we go to great lengths to seek it, build it and be bound by it.

Have I explained the matter in sufficient detail, whether you agree with my explanation or not? Fiddle Faddle 13:31, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks User:Timtrent. I see why it wasn't wise of me to revert the second time. I guess I let my dislike for tags I happen to perceive as pointless get the better of me. Thanks for the explanation. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 13:36, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Please remember, the only thing to take personally on Wikipedia is praise. All else is just background noise. Feel free, should you so desire, to remove this section from your talk page. Tags, by the way, serve a purpose, though they do disfigure articles. Fiddle Faddle 13:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

As I am sure you have seen, the consensus has developed against the merge. I've placed a suggested time limit before closure on the talk page there, 'just in case' there is a late rush. Frankly I doubt it. In part that is down to the substantial work you have performed in the Wiki-PR article. The suggested time limit is by no means 'official', and people are free to argue for it being shorter or longer.

By allowing this to involve many editors we may all be confident that we are obeying the community's current wishes. I'm entirely content to have suggested something which the community is judging to be not something it wishes to be done. Fiddle Faddle 17:27, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

I guess I sometimes also get impatient when I feel like I see an unnecessary discussion. Thanks for the note. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 17:35, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

When I first started here I was impatient, too. As time passed I learned that I would be more relaxed more of the time if I took a pragmatic attitude and approach to the place, something I do not always achieve :). By developing consensus we strengthen the whole edifice. We can also be certain that what we are doing is considered fruitful. Yeah, preachy! Fiddle Faddle 17:51, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Loves Libraries 2013

You're invited! Please sign up at Wikipedia:Meetup/Atlanta/Atlanta 7. To unsubscribe from these alerts, please remove your name from this page. — Ganeshk (talk) 01:57, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Apologies

I'd just like to apologize for my classmates' behaviour. I had just read on the email account I had added to this account that one of them had said some unsavory things in regards to having their work edited. I do hope you accept my apology and continue doing good work by ensuring the utmost quality on Wikipedia.