Wikipedia:Help desk

Welcome—ask questions about how to use or edit Wikipedia! (Am I in the right place?)

• For other types of questions, use the search box, see the reference desk or Help:Contents. If you have comments about a specific article, use that article's talk page.
• Do not provide your email address or any other contact information. Answers will be provided on this page only.
• If your question is about a Wikipedia article, draft article, or other page on Wikipedia, tell us what it is!
• Check back on this page to see if your question has been answered.
• For real-time help, use our IRC help channel, #wikipedia-en-help.
• New editors may prefer the Teahouse, a help area for beginners (but please don't ask in both places).

Ask a question

June 7

Refs AND notes together – a "preferred" order?

So, I'm looking around MOS:REF, etc., and I can't seem to find the answer to the following question: Is there a "preferred order" when you have to list references and notes together? In other words, is there a MOS guideline about whether references are supposed to be listed before notes, like so? Or, is it OK to list them the other way, like so, and there's no guideline about this in terms of the "preferred" order of references and notes? Thanks in advance. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:20, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

From what I can find, no, see WP:FNNR. RegistryKey^(RegEdit) 04:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Hmm that is odd. I thought I saw mention of this somewhere at some point in time but that would have been last decade. FWIW I have seen the "Notes" before the "References" in every article that has both that I have come across. That doesn't mean there are articles that have them the other way round though. MarnetteD|Talk 04:35, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah, that's about the "footer" section order, in terms of WP:ORDER (and, like Marnette, I could have sworn that I had seen something about needing to put the "Notes" section before the "References" section...). But that's not my question. My question is about the actual order of the citations themselves in the article text. Like I've shown above – should it be, or should it be, or does it not matter and there's no guideline about this? TIA... ----IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:48, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Not an official MOS, but in every article I've seen, the reference is listed before the note, so it would be [1][Note1]. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: that's also how I've generally seen it done (and what I've changed it to on several occasions). So, what I'm wondering is, if this (i.e. "refs before notes") isn't included in the MOS, should it be? @MarnetteD: any thoughts about this on your end? Thanks to all, in advance! ----IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:53, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

In general, the MOS dosen't deal with citation formats because, as per WP:CITEVAR there is no Wikipedia "house style" for citations. DES ^(talk) 18:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Notes

References

Closing Account

Please can you advise how I close my account Jw7415? I opened it some time ago but have rarely used it and would like it deleted. I have looked in the FAQ but cannot find this information.

Thank you for your help.

Jw7415 (talk) 06:06, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

You can't close your account, but you can stop using it. See the section #closure of my account above for a more detailed answer to a similar question from another user yesterday. - David Biddulph (talk) 07:06, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I want a font with serifs

Can I customise Wikipedia in some way so that I can read it in another font? I'd like to have a font with serifs, since that is easier to read. Boot Blues (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

See can use your common.css to change fonts. Ruslik_Zero 20:09, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

language switch

Hello I have translated an article from English to french and I dont know how to make it link to the original so that it appears as "french" when the article is in english: both articles have the same name but they appear as though there is no relationship between them — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lambdacore12 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

See Help:Interlanguage links for explanation. Ruslik_Zero 20:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Lancelot Booth 24 September 1845 - 20 May 1913

the article states that he was the son of Lancelot Parker Booth and Anne Hedley. I am a descendant of this family and their son was called Robert Lancelot Booth 19th January 1845. He was the manager of a colliery and died in Morpeth, Northumberland. Articles about him can be found on the Durham Mining Museums web site. His wife was called Jane Charlton. Robert Lancelot Booth was the brother of the Very rev. dr. Lancelot Parker Booth who had amongst his friends Mahatma Gandhi. More info.on Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.81.2.16 (talk) 18:22, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

It appears that you are requesting that changes be made to Lancelot Booth. The place to make these requests is the talk page, Talk: Lancelot Booth. Please provide reliable sources. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:50, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

June 8

false information

hello

im khalid alghamdi i would like to let Wikipedia know that there is an issue with the page, the part where i think is 100% wrong and i think its insult to Islamic characters and i would like you to change that.

the link Al-Hakam II

it's at the Personal life

where it says

n his youth his loves seem to have been entirely homosexual.[4] He was known to have openly kept a male harem.[5] This exclusivity was a problem, since it was essential to produce an heir. A resolution was reached[6] by his taking a concubine, Subh, who dressed in boys' clothes and was given the masculine name of Jafar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanon7070 (talk • contribs) 01:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

There are what appear to be reliable sources attached to each of these statements, which seem to reflect historical fact. Do you have any citable, reliable sources to contradict the information in that section of the article, or are you just objecting because you think it says something derogatory about the subject? You do realize, don't you, that there have been historically important homosexuals throughout history who were adherents of Islam, just as there have been historically important homosexuals of other faiths? General Ization ^Talk 01:17, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

And for future reference, the best place to post a message about a proposed inaccuracy or to express other concerns about an article is on the article's Talk page rather than on this Help Desk. General Ization ^Talk 01:23, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Help with move request

I created a draft on Vince Cardell (draft:Vince Cardell) because there is already a re-direct. Because re-direct was not created as such, I can not move the draft over the re-direct, so I made a requested move so that an administrator would move it over the re-direct. It went through the commentary period, and the non-admin closer did not close for moving, but instead sent it to Articles for Creation. As a regular AfC reviewer, I certainly could have done that myself. I don't particularly want to wait the normal 2 months an AfC can take, and this is mildly annoying. What process should I have used to move my article to the mainspace over the re-direct? Thanks! 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 03:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done. 78.26 I have done the move. It seems to me that you acted properly, and the closer of the RM discussion didn't correctly understand what was being requested. posting here was a good way to attract admin attention to the issue. You could also have used {{helpme}} I suppose, or sent a talk msg to any active admin. DES ^(talk) 08:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

" also "

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I noticed the word ' also ' is being used to annoy.

I don't use ' also ' when it's obvious the idea expressed is related to the previous statement. It's very bad grammar. Someone amongst you is a middle easterner perhaps.

' also ', someone amongst you is a middle easterner. Also I think you have bad grammar and also it's obvious you have a conflicting interest in there who is using ' also ' when it's an annoyance.

annoying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.119.232.222 (talk) 05:50, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Posts that complain about a problem but don't tell us which article they are referring to are also annoying. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Posts that accuse someone of being a "middle easterner", without saying middle east relative to what, are also annoying. Maproom (talk) 07:09, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Editors who assume that what is obvious to them is obvious to everyone are also annoying. So are editors who appear to assume that there is something wrong with being a "middle easterner", however that might be defined. DES ^(talk) 07:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

"Also" in an article can sometimes be an example of editorialising, in which case it is best removed; but it is not always a problem. However, if you see a way in which an article can be improved, you are welcome to do so. --ColinFine (talk) 10:42, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I've also been annoyed by the use of 'also' in various biography articles. As a person is a part of more and more projects, their article is often expanded by adding bits of information to the end of the biography or career section of the article. You can see this a lot in biographies of actors as they go from one movie to the next. It's a lazy way of adding more information. That said, you could take it upon yourself to channel your annoyance into cleaning up the prose and making well written and flowing paragraphs of these 'also' sentences. Dismas|^(talk) 10:53, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

To the original poster: This is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. We have more than four million articles and tens of thousands of volunteer editors from around the World. Whatever a middle easterner means to you, I'm sure we have many. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:15, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, DC and occasionally VirginiaNaraht (talk) 14:16, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just creating an article instead of submitting to Articles for creation?

I created a draft, then submitted it to Articles for Creation--however, it's not about an organization or individual, so I could have just moved it to the main space instead of using the AfC process. Is there a way to remove it from Articles for Creation? Rauisuchian (talk) 11:37, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

@Rauisuchian: anyone can create/move any article directly to live space, but that just means it is immediately going to be subject of heavy scrutiny and subject to potential speedy deletion. After a quick view of the draft I would question if the subject as presented meets WP:GNG - outside of the essentially primary source of the tetra blogs, there doesnt seem to be significant third party coverage. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:23, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

or maybe not, some of the iO9 seems more relevant than initially appeared. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:29, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom: Do Articles for Creation get reviewed by multiple people or only one reviewer? Rauisuchian (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

@Rauisuchian: it is generally one editor at a time. If it is initially rejected, then another editor may be the reviewer upon a second submission, or it might be the same one. And there is no way to know how many people may look at an article and decide "no that's not a submission I want to formally review". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism or just bad editing?

An article that I started in January has been edited by somebody without an account. I'm quite short of time at the moment and I can't work out if he or she was trying to do something useful or just vandalising the article. If somebody has some time to spare, perhaps they would have a look at it for me please? Ernest Stafford Carlos is the article in question. Alansplodge (talk) 13:02, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I do not know if the changes made are correct or not, but the breakage of the infobox appears to be bad editing. I have fixed the infobox. Someone with some knowledge of the subject will have to look at the edits and determine if they are good changes. -- GB fan 13:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Many thanks GB and other editors who have helped. Alansplodge (talk) 16:40, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Resolved

Welcome messages using Twinkle

It was my custom to welcome new users to Wikipedia, using Twinkle, but now I cannot do that. Twinkle works fine for me on Articles, but not at all on Talk pages. Why not?--DThomsen8 (talk) 13:29, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I just did a welcome using twinkle and it worked fine. Not sure why you had a problem. Try it again; maybe it was an intermitant. RJFJR (talk) 14:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Johnny Kay aka John Kaciuban

Bill Haley & His Comets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

In the history of Bill Haley and the Comets, there is no mention of me, Johnny Kay...lead guitarist June 1960 to Dec. 1966, then on various shows and recordings for several years thereafter. in the 1972 London Rock & Roll Show 8/5/72..Please go to www.jkrockets.com for more info. I was associated with the comets from 1960 to 1972. My last performance as lead guitar was in Las Vegas Sept 1972. Thank yo; JK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.109.109.109 (talk) 18:58, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

We would require third-party sourcing for that. Your personal website would not be acceptable unfortunately. I'll see if I can find anything, and add your name to the article if I can confirm it. For future reference, you might do better to post on the article talk page if you have further information - please note that per the Wikipedia:Conflict of interest guideline, you are strongly advised not to edit the article yourself. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:57, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I've done some research and the history of "The Comets" after the 50s gets complex See http://www.rockabillyhall.com/billhaley.html for a list of those part of the Comets at one time or another. This does include Johnny Kay. Also Bill Haley Father of Rock 'n' Roll (https://books.google.com/books?id=_l_1NkpGBrEC ) would probably be suitable as a reference.Naraht (talk) 21:09, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Did my page get deleted?

I created a page, "Quality Tubing", and recieved some feedback from some editors. I went ahead and made the needed changes, but now when I search for "Quality Tubing", it has been redirected. How can I find my site again to edit it or has it been deleted? If it has been deleted, how do I try again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkaplan92 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Your article has been changed into a redirect - but the previous version is still visible in the history: [1] Frankly, I would have to suggest that 'trying again' would be a waste of time though - the business concerned is a part of another company, on which we already have an article, and nothing in your article suggests that the business would meet our notability guidelines as an independent subject. It was also blatant advertising, and cited no sources whatsoever. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

pages on general guidelines for etymologies, original scripts, pronunciation etc.

I feel very foolish asking this, but where are the pages which describe the policy regarding giving etymologies, pronunciation, etc.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Telmac (talk • contribs) 20:36, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Here's the relevant manual of style guideline on pronounciation, as far as etymology goes, it varies depending on the subject. Here is a search result listing many topic-specific entries that have something to say about etymology. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Writing styles - what tense should be used? Present tense as though a narrative or past tense as we recount something

I am translating articles from French into English and have been told that the French write in the present tense and the English wiki writes in the past tense. Is that correct? Where can I find out about house styles?

Many Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.43.203 (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I can't speak to the conventions of French-English translation, but we do typically write here of events that have already occurred and people who are deceased in the past tense, rather than as a narrative in the present tense. Otherwise, we write about our subjects in the present tense. See MOS:TENSE. And more generally the English Wikipedia Manual of Style. General Ization ^Talk 23:50, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

June 9

Talk Page Archiving

Please help, my talk page still won't archive. How can I get this to work? Pablothepenguin (talk) 08:58, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

See Help:Archiving a talk page RegistryKey^(RegEdit) 09:16, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

(The previous thread is now in the Help desk archives) I have had a close look at your talk page and still cannot see why the bot won't archive it. I can only guess that the size of the page, over half a megabyte, is upsetting the bot in some way. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:50, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

(More) I've archived it by hand. Maybe the bot will spring into life now? -- John of Reading (talk) 09:59, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Quite a few people (including myself) have been having problems with the bots not archiving, see User talk:Σ. No advice has yet been given. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:22, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

It may be related to WP:Village pump (technical)#Impending bot armageddon - apparently about a server code change that could "break" certain bots. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:03, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Should an article be listed in both parent and sub-categories ?

Is there some good reason why a film article should state both parent and sub-categories to which that film belongs? The particular manifestation is Schindler's List, which is listed in 'American biographical films', 'American epic films' and 'American war films', so there is no possibility of the reader not realising that this is part ofCategory:American films. Text at the head of that category page says 'For convenience, all American films are included in this category. This includes all American films that can also be found in the subcategories.' Surely that isn't the same thing as the parent category must be SHOWN on ALL American film articles?

A discussion has taken place on my talk page here:[2]. Clarification would be helpful, I've tried checking Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization and elsewhere but nothing seems to answer the question. It is in order to prevent 'categorization bloat', and because the parent category in this instance is so huge as to be unhelpful to the reader, that I ask the question. Many thanks.Pincrete (talk) 09:08, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what the film project decided, but it sounds like the correct use of WP:DUPCAT to me. - X201 (talk) 09:58, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

It may be technically correct, but is it useful? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:06, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Category:American films with 29,819 pages may not seem very useful for browsing but there are other ways to use categories like Wikipedia:Category intersection#Tools currently available. Other countries have far fewer film articles, for example Category:Romanian films with 174 fitting on one category page. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:27, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Dodger67 asks the central question, is it useful? A category with 30,000 entries and 30,000 articles listing that category in addition to the 'subs', seems silly. I can see the sense of much smaller categories (eg Romanian films), where it is both practical to list together, and also possible to imagine a reader wanting to know about that subject.Pincrete (talk) 17:45, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I created an article -" Poonguzhali"

Hello, Greetings! I created an article -" Poonguzhali" . Its a character from a Tamil novel. I searched for an image in google an uploaded in my page. The usage rights of that image is 'Not filtered by license' . Actually the image is an artist's representation of that character in a newspaper . What should i do to make the image in my page constant? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayathiri E (talk • contribs) 10:14, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the image but after having read the Poonguzhali article, I think that you should point out in the lead paragraph that it is a character in a novel and not a real person. There is nowhere in the article that it says anything about it being a character. Dismas|^(talk) 10:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)If no authentic image of Poonguzhali is available, I don't think Wikipedia is improved by including a fictitious one. Incidentally, while the article has no references, it is in danger of being deleted. Maproom (talk) 10:42, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

How can an article contain a real image of a fictitious character? AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:47, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

The article now states that its subject is fictitious. When I looked at it, it didn't; it said that its subject was the wife of Uththama Chola. Maproom (talk) 12:52, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

1. Fictious subject: I've added the info, based on the User:Kayathiri E message above. Did I that wrong?
2. It still says Poonguzhali was the wife of Uththama Chola. Is it wrong? I thought it's possible the novel describes a fictious character related to a real, historical person. If it was a mistake, feel free to revert. Be bold. --CiaPan (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

The image is a copyvio and I have tagged it for deletion.--ukexpat (talk) 12:39, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Reporting Lies

How do I address articles that are inaccurate and false? Is there a way to report false and malicious statements? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.126.233.165 (talk) 12:06, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

On the articles' talk/discussion pages.--ukexpat (talk) 12:33, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Please make sure to provide reliable sources for the new information and state your concerns as calmly as possible (see also WP:AGF) on the article's talkpage, as mentioned. GermanJoe (talk) 12:40, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

If an article contains statements that you believe are not only malicious but also defamatory, see the libel policy for reporting the article to WMF. However, since this is the only edit made from your IP address, there is no way that we can guess what you are saying is the problem. Discuss on an article talk page (if you really think that there is a problem). Robert McClenon (talk) 14:54, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia page for company

Hello

I am looking to open a wikipedia page for my 10 years company with 400 employees how can i do that?

Thanks a lot A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.200.207.218 (talk) 14:15, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

First of all, please read WP:COI which strongly discourages you from creating an article about your company. If you still want to create one, you need to find evidence of significant, independent coverage from reliable sources, about the company, to show they are notable enough per WP:GNG and WP:CORP. If you think they're notable enough, then Wikipedia: Article Wizard is the way for IP users to create draft articles, which will then be reviewed by other users to see if it meets Wikipedia standards. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

And note well that it is NOT a "Wikipedia page for your company" it is a "Wikipedia encyclopedia article about a company" and that it will be edited by ANYONE who appropriately follows Wikipedia policies and will represent the good AND bad things that have been noted about the company -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:00, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

commonswiki-20150417-all-titles contains names of deleted files

So I'm searching for all svg-files on wikipedia. While doing this I found out that commonswiki-20150417-all-titles seems to contain deleted files.

For example http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:34sassinu.svg
(I don't know what sort of image that is. Obviously.)

So my questions are:

1. Is there another list-file like commonswiki-20150417-all-titles that contains all deleted files, so I could do a cross check?

2. Is there an all-titles list-file that doesn't contain the deleted files?

3. Bonus question: Some of those files in commonswiki-20150417-all-titles have been renamed. In line with the two first questions: How to find out the current name?

I only want to download the svg-files, and not to download like 250% overload. Out of the 20 files I tried around half were renamed.

And some were deleted. Only around 5 were actually to find under the name given in the all-titles file.

By now I would have been faster if I just grabbed a whole wikipedia-dump. :/ But then that I really don't want to do . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.102.69.95 (talk) 21:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

June 10

Scanned Book Cover

I have a scan of the cover of a book by Carl Jung. I'd like to use it in the article about the book. I've seen somewhere that this is allowable, but I'm not sure where. I do NOT want to become a copyright attorney -- I just want to add an illustration to an article. Lou Sander (talk) 02:08, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Just use the Upload file link at the top left of any page. Choose the option that says This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use. Then choose This is the official cover art of a work. The scan should be at a fairly low resolution so that it can't be used to pirate the book cover. Then bippity boppity boo... You're done. Dismas|^(talk) 02:27, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

When was the book printed? Is the book cover in public domain? (I realize that some of Jung's books were printed in his later life or after his death and are still copyright.) Robert McClenon (talk) 03:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Two questions, both regarding citations

Hey guys,

I'm working on a couple articles here, but ran into some issues in the citations. My first question is: Many of the online sources I selected have been deleted after being just over a year old, what should I do?

My second question: is there a limited amount of online citations required for an article? I have TONS of newspaper, magazine, and book references - but not a whole lot of Internet sources.

Thanks! Sash~