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October 31

How did Air Force one go to the Reagan Library?

Reading a news report about the fires in California, I learned that the Reagan Library has a display including the retired Air Force One plane. That plane, VC-137C_SAM_27000, served several presidents, and Reagan was not even the last one. How was it decided that the plane would go to the Reagan library and not to one of the other president's libraries? The articles on the Reagan library and plane doesn't say. RudolfRed (talk) 01:00, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

As a wild guess, it was the first library which had space for an aircraft, and some plausible route for transporting it there. Andy Dingley (talk) 01:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

That makes sense, thanks. RudolfRed (talk) 03:11, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Also to be considered: Reagan was the president to use it the longest (8 years), and while strictly speaking Reagan was not the last president to fly on it, it was replaced as the primary Air Force One in 1990, little more than 1 year after he left office (it remained in service as a backup plane and saw occasional use until 2001, but it was not the primary Presidential plane after 1990). Even if what Andy Dingley says above weren't true, those are two more very good reasons why the plane is specifically associated with President Reagan. --Jayron32 14:53, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

There is some discussion here [1] suggesting lobbying by Reagan (and I guess his supporters), starting before the end of his presidency, was the main factor. That said, as Jayron32 said, Reagan also seemed to be the with perhaps the biggest claim which would also likely have affected any lobbying. It was only used during a small part of Richard Nixon's presidency and his resignation and what lead up to it likely was a major factor against his library being able to claim it. Gerald Ford was unfortunately for him, probably also somewhat tainted by Reagan and the pardon (whether or not it was wrong), and more importantly was not elected president or even vice president and also had a very short tenure. Jimmy Carter had a longer tenure but still only a term. He also remained more active in areas which may have caused controversy. It was only the primary plane during part of George H. W. Bush's term and in addition he only served one term. The fact that his son was the current president was probably more of a hindrance than a help. Bill Clinton was the only one to serve 2 full terms (at the time) but the plane wasn't the primary plane during any of his presidency, he was impeached even if not convicted (whatever people think about the rights of that), his wife was a senator and his library had only just broken ground. Oh and I realised after posting I forgot to write about George W. Bush but it was only used as the non primary plane during a tiny part of is eventually 2 term tenure and he was the current president. To be fair, Reagan did have the Iran–Contra affair and other controversies but still..... To put it a different way, although I personally dislike a fair amount of what Reagan stood for and did, if I were involved in deciding who to give it to Reagan would seem the least controversial choice out of all the other ones. The alternative was to give it to no one. Or to split it up in some way, but that's not likely to work so well. Nil Einne (talk) 07:19, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

One more forgotten Top Gear controversy

Usually, Jeremy Clarkson is the one who comes to mind when thinking about Top Gear controversies. But I also remember an episode where James May smoothly incorporates several Nazi slogans (of the work sets you free, strength through joy type) into his part of the dialogue. But which episode was it? Thanks in advance -- 77.185.18.44 (talk) 15:38, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Top_Gear_controversies#Series_13 Nanonic (talk) 15:43, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

That’s not what I meant. I think it was a travel/camping episode (?). -- 77.185.18.44 (talk) 16:31, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Might have been the first episode of James May's Cars of the People rather than Top Gear. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:15, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Nope, definitely an episode of Top Gear I have in mind. -- 77.185.18.44 (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Height of a child actor/actress

How could I work out what height a child actor/actress was from age 5 to 20 years old? For example, what height was Jake Lloyd (who is now 30 years old and his height is 1.65 m) when he played young Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace at age 8? 86.128.246.20 (talk) 21:48, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

It sounds like you are looking for a formula. That wouldn't work well because everybody grows at different rates, including growth spurts at variable times. Better to try to estimate it by pics of him at the time next to objects of known height, like adult actors. SinisterLefty (talk) 22:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Assuming the heights we "know" for them are correct. Adding an inch to an actor's published height is not exactly uncommon. --Khajidha (talk) 14:28, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Growth-height charts are common. Human height is correlated to age and falls very closely into a natural distribution. So, you can estimate a person's height with age within a standard deviation. Some people are outliers. For example, I stopped growing at age 13, but when I was 13, I was by far taller than anyone else my age that I knew. So, if you attempted to place my adult height on the growth chart, you would underestimate my height at 13 because you would assume that I grew after that age. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 16:12, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Note that those charts show averages, but child actors are often chosen because they are short for their age, and thus they can have a more experienced actor play a younger role. SinisterLefty (talk) 16:42, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

But it's not clear to me the OP is actually asking for a formula. They did say "work out" but that could be for various reasons. This thread seems to have touched on what could be the OP's question but missed it. For many reasons the height of an actor is often important, for child actors surely no less so including for the reasons mentioned here. I'm fairly sure it's basic biographical likely to be included in any profile provided to agents, casting directors etc [2]. While it won't necessarily begin at 5, many child actors do have carriers or carrier attempts before they become famous even if it's just appearing in commercials or if they're lucky as extras. While Khajida has a point that such info may not be entirely accurate, there are strong limits to how much you can lie for something so easily checked and seen. While I guess some parents (or whatever) may hope that when the casting director sees their 140 cm son's performance, they'll put aside the fact that they were expecting a 125 cm actor but on the whole, it probably doesn't work well. This isn't quite like age. There may also be a differences between what's provided privately where it matters, and what's given to magazines and the like. However, although a bunch of people likely have this info, it's probably not something easily publicly available for many actors. And even if there is a site that collects records, I'm not entirely comfortable with us providing links for WP:BLP reasons. That said, for modern famous child actors at a time when they were famous, it seems unlikely you'd need to estimate yourself. There must surely be published info, whether estimated from those around them or more likely provided by someone involved with the caveat mention by Khajidja coming into play. Nil Einne (talk) 15:38, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

You could get a good idea of his height, by measuring the ratio of his height to his on-screen mother (Simi, played by Pernilla August), or his slave-masters. LongHairedFop (talk) 21:31, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

November 1

Ethanol fermentation

A friend and I were joking around about different generic names for all alcoholic beverages. Two of our favorites were "Liquid Stupid" and "Yeast Poop". This led to an interesting question. Are all alcoholic beverages based upon yeast fermentation? Our Ethanol fermentation page says

" All ethanol contained in alcoholic beverages (including ethanol produced by carbonic maceration) is produced by means of fermentation induced by yeast. "

The answer to this refdesk question might allow us to replace that citation needed with a citation or possibly edit it and add a citation if it turns out to be incorrect.

Our Zymomonas mobilis article says

" Zymomonas mobilis is a Gram negative, facultative anaerobic, non-sporulating, polarly-flagellated, rod-shaped bacterium. It is the only species found in the genus Zymomonas. It has notable bioethanol-producing capabilities, which surpass yeast in some aspects. It was originally isolated from alcoholic beverages like the African palm wine, the Mexican pulque, and also as a contaminant of cider and beer (cider sickness and beer spoilage) in European countries. "

Our Pulque page says

" Unlike beer, the fermenting agent present in pulque is a bacterium of the species Zymomonas mobilis (syn. Thermobacterium mobile ) rather than yeast. "

References

Only one problem. The citation on the pulque page doesn't seem to support the claim, and the claim on the Z. mobilis page is uncited.

Finally, our Palm wine page says

" Palm sap begins fermenting immediately after collection, due to natural yeasts in the air (often spurred by residual yeast left in the collecting container). "

and makes no mention of Z. mobilis.

So, are all alcoholic beverages made from "Yeast poop" (yeast fermentation) or not? What do the sources say? --Guy Macon (talk) 08:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

It is possible to produce an alchohol molecule through a chemical process. Alcoholic beverages are not created that way because it is much cheaper and easier to let yeast do the work. There are processes named things like "fermentation without yeast." That doesn't mean that yeast isn't used. It means that yeast is not added. The yeast that is naturally found in the system is used instead. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 16:09, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Z. mobilis is one of the fermenting agents, according to [3]. Also a couple of lactobacilli, also the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 18:07, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

All of our alcoholic beverages (AFAIK) are made from "yeast poop". Except for one - Vladivar Vodka, from Varrington. In a manner rather reminiscent of non-brewed condiment, this was made from an industrial ethanol byproduct stream (Varrington was the centre of the UK chemical industry), bottled up for human consumption. OTOH, post-Weizmann, nearly the whole UK chemical industry was based on yeast (or at least, bacterial) poop anyway. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:30, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I tend to refer to the bubbles in yeast bread as formed by "yeast farts", as they are the waste gasses expelled by yeast (no anus involved, of course). SinisterLefty (talk) 06:19, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

PC voting system in Fla (2000)

Hi, even if this system was widespread in only 24 out of 67 counties, is it possible that the punched card system was the most widespread method of voting at the state level, as far as the electors in general are concerned? I say this, because these machines were the ststemi also used in the most populous counties, and this affects. Thank you. I don't need figures, it's not necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 15:02, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

If you already have the figures, then what's your question? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:06, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I would have found the source to be reliable, I need a confirmation. If you go to this link on page 633 (9/74) there is a table with the voting systems and the numbers expressed with the systems themselves. Out of 6 million votes in total, 3.7 million preferences were expressed with punched card systems. So I assume that the majority of state voters in that year used and voiced their votes with the Votomatic machines, the sucittate ones. It is the first table. https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2525&context=facpubs

November 2

information sign in japanese in a californian prison near the condom machine

Hello there, I saw this video https://youtube.com/MRmwtgcm_p0 and I just cant believe what I saw. Are in the prisons of california so many japanese people locked that there is this need for such signs in japanese? If yes, how does it come? Japanese and the japanese people aren't for me really "known" as "criminals". And if this sign is necessary it has to mean, japanese is spoken by many many prisoners inside this prison. And of course, these presumed japanese prisoners want to have these condoms (thats reason 2 why I cant believe why that sign exist). We in Germany do have some information signs in arabic, kurdish and some african languages which tell you for example "do not poop in the shower" (example) because there is the necessary for it, otherwise we would not teach them any "european culture". Are japanese really criminals, are really so many japanese people living in california that there is the necessary for it? I was guessing the most japanese people do live in Hawaii and if they live there, they aren't really many in the prisons. Can you help me to understand why there is this necessary for the sign in japanese? I have a culture-shock, I never saw japanese people as criminals --46.167.62.33 (talk) 02:55, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Wrong link. Also, the sign is in Chinese, not Japanese; there's no Kana whatsoever (as can be seen at 1:01).

There are Chinese criminal organizations. Also, there are Japanese criminal organizations.

However, it's kinda racist to say "are (ethnicity) really criminals" as if the entire group either is or isn't -- all ethnicities and cultures have criminals among them but most people are just trying to get by. And as a German, you should be extra aware of the dangers of making blanket statements about entire ethnicities. Ian.thomson (talk) 03:05, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Worth noting that the news story clearly says 'San Francisco County Jail' rather than simply referring to it as a Californian prison. The distinction between things called jails and prisons in the US seems important here [4] and indeed the video sort of gets into it near the end, although the San Francisco County bit hints at the important part.

The jail here, is I assume one of the San Francisco County Jails ultimately run by the City and County of San Francisco. (To be clear, it's a Consolidated city-county.) As the story indicates, apparently San Francisco made condoms available in their jails a while back, before California passed a law for the same thing [5]. Which is largely an aside but indicates why they are the example that tends to show up in these stories.

The main reason all this is important is what's common in 'California' which is after all a massive state, may not be that relevant. It makes sense that San Francisco will choose what they feel is best for them unless the state or federal government stops them. San Francisco#Race, ethnicity, religion, and languages says that 19% speak a variety of Chinese at home. (More than Spanish in fact.) Demographics of San Francisco#Languages and ages has similar figures. While not Mandarin, and the article doesn't really talk about written languages, it would make sense if there's a fair few Written vernacular Chinese although more likely traditional than simplified. (While Written Cantonese is a thing, it's generally not so common especially in formal settings.) I suspect you can find stats someone if you look a bit better.

Anyway this is likely part of the reason San Francisco has a Language Access Ordinance [6] requiring that major city departments provide written translations for Spanish, Chinese and Tagalog. There may be exceptions for jails or maybe they aren't covered but it wouldn't be surprising if they were. (And I would add if the situation is unclear, printing signs is likely to be far cheaper than being hit by a lawsuit.) That sign lacks Tagalog, but that was only added recently and it sounds like full compliance was only needed by the end of 2015 [7] [8] which postdates both the article I linked and the video you did.

Assuming that the LAO does apply to jails, whether it may have been better to consider the languages specific to those incarcerated isn't really a question for the RD and I'm not convinced it would be different enough that these weren't still the top languages. See e.g. [9] which admittedly doesn't have enough specificity and ethnicity is only a loose approximator for language spoken.

Nil Einne (talk) 04:54, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Relevant article for implied question 2: Prison sexuality#Inmate contraceptive access. -- ToE 23:19, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

California has state laws regarding language accessibility. (One example.) As a Californian, I know we always get multilingual notices with election materials, DMV stuff, legal stuff from companies, and so on. I don't know whether this has anything to do with said laws, but I wouldn't be surprised. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 04:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

November 3

Is Quora under “attack” by the Russian GRU?

If so, how much how does Quora deal with it? Have the people who run Quora said anything? By the way I think of this as the kind of question that should be allowed to be asked here over and ovwr again as events progress.Rich (talk) 21:39, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Where have you seen that claim? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:20, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

The RefDesk is not a news ticker. BTW, all the news I see of this is a year old (Dec 2018, mostly). Matt Deres (talk) 15:55, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

November 4

Featured Article

Today's featured article is incorrect as it says that South Africa have won the Rugby World Cup twice. We have won three times, to make us equal with New Zealand. Please can someone look into amending this. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 10:34, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

If you're talking about the pinkish-coloured box halfway down the main page, that's not a featured article but a featured list. If you click on Full List you will see that the list has already been updated to reflect this change. The fact that the change is not currently reflected on the main page is probably some weird caching issue that is beyond my pay grade. It has already been reported at Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors and will probably sort itself out eventually. --Viennese Waltz 10:56, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

This has been fixed now. --Viennese Waltz 14:57, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Wisteria

My Wisteria stayed yellow throughout the summer. I tried neglecting it for several weeks and this just made it worse. I tried to over water it and this too has little (though positive) impact. I then tried moderate watering and have fertilised the soil thoroughly as most of the soil in this region is hard clay. Other wisteria in the area appear to still be in full bloom with dark green leaves. Mine in now bare. I have read our article, I have searched online and I have knocked on doors and have asked people with nice ones, and have been told they have cultivated their's through "careful neglect" and that it is pruned after it flowers. Mine is too ill to ever flower. What can I do over the winter or what can I learn over the winter so that when summer comes I can keep up with the Joneses. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 11:10, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Have you called your local garden shop? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they also said to prune after flowering, but as stated above, it does not flower. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 16:17, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe it's time to get a new one. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:25, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

That's a bit nonsensical. An analogy for the US market, simplified, if I can't drive a stick shift I will sell the stick shift or scrap it and buy another stick shift. I remain in the same position. Just getting another Wisteria will end up in a new plant, (the current one spreads across a full wall of my house) which is considerably smaller and suffers from the same malady. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 12:29, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe wisteria don't grow well in your microclimate (especially your soil type or local microfauna (bacteria/plant diseases, etc.). Perhaps it is time to experiment with different ornamental bushes than wisteria. --Jayron32 13:10, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

How big is your Wisteria Anton? These plants are known to be very fickle in their cultural requirements and most do not flower for several years, some for many years. This Royal Horticultural Society site may be useful to you. Richard Avery (talk) 14:04, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Mine is about 3 meters high and about 1 meter across spreading an in L shape. Its about 4 years old from what I can guess. There are other houses in my area with wisteria which appear to be doing well so it can't be the microclimate, soil type or local microfauna. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 14:41, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Don't jump to that conclusion. Maybe the soil type in your yard is incompatible. That's something a gardening professional should be able to figure out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:59, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Indeed; in my yard for example, in a space of about 1/5 of an acre, I have at least three distinct soil types; a fairly nice dark loam, a hard red clay, and a streak of brilliant white clay you could make porcelain out of. One would be surprised how much these things can change in a short amount of space. I have plants that will not grow on one side of my house that flourish on the other side of the house. --Jayron32 20:15, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

You could try doing a Ph test of the soil. Just buy or borrow a Ph test kit and check your soil with it. Maybe ask for a soil sample from near a healthy one and compare them. Gardens can easily get contaminated by strange substances. Concrete or plaster waste, old paint, excess urine, etc. 49.197.86.9 (talk) 07:23, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

November 5

USAF NCO sword type

What type of sword is the United States Air Force NCO sword? It is too long and narrow to be an arming sword, and too straight without a hand guard to be a saber. What do they call that? --Puzzledvegetable^{Is it teatime already?} 03:46, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Cut and thrust sword, I think. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 04:05, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

According to this, it's a sabre. The straightforward "sword" is for the enlisted soldiers. That's according to the image on that site here. Seems fairly reliable. Matt Deres (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the NCO sword is the sword illustrated there. NCOs are enlisted personnel. The NCO sword, as the OP said, is to straight to be a saber. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 15:31, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

According to this site the NCO sword is the same design as the Academy Sabre. Straight and double edged doesn't look like a sabre to me, maybe it's Patton's fault.—eric 19:19, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

November 6

Can five lines of bearing pinpoint a location?

On a sphere, given 5 starting points and lines of bearing, is that enough to pinpoint a location? Curious about the general case. Also, curious about Project Azorian, where it says it took three weeks to locate a submarine in an area provided by five points of bearing. I suspect in that case it is due to the sub sinking and drifting on its way down and ocean bottom topography etc. RudolfRed (talk) 03:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

If I understand your terminology correctly, each line of bearing is a vector along the surface of the sphere. If so, then 2 should be sufficient to define a location on the surface, although the vectors will also meet at the opposite side of the Earth (the antipode). Typically, you know the location well enough to know which of those two is correct. However, in the real world, those vectors can be off a bit, so the more the better, as then you can get an average range where the object may be located (or below which it may be located). Of course, as you noted, if the object changes location and depth after the bearings are established, that complicates matters. See bearing (navigation). SinisterLefty (talk) 03:55, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

@SinisterLefty: That makes sense, thank you. RudolfRed (talk) 17:21, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

What to do with a watch I can't set ?

Pic 1.

Pic 2.

Somebody I know was given a watch, but they don't know how to set the time, and it isn't obvious from the controls. I tried hitting the various buttons, and couldn't figure it out. No brand name or model is displayed and they don't have any instructions or packaging. It's made in China. The controls are 4 buttons, labelled Light, Reset, Mode and Time (not positive on the last two). I am thinking of opening it up to try to find a model number or manufacturer, then doing a web search for instructions using that. Any other ideas ? SinisterLefty (talk) 07:47, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Before taking it apart, and since you've nothing to lose anyway, try fiddling with all the buttons and see what they do. I had a cheap clock or watch once that combined things kind of confusingly. I would try Mode and see if it presents a menu of some sort. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:20, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I already tried that. Nothing like a menu, just various times and dates display and some portions of them flash. I'm guessing one is an alarm time and date. But I never get the current time (hours or minutes) to flash. SinisterLefty (talk) 08:30, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? Could you get the seconds of the current time to flash?

Have your trials included holding buttons in for extended periods. I had a clock that required one button to be held in for about 10 seconds before it activated. An image of the watch might help others to recognise it. Richard Avery (talk) 08:38, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Haven't tried holding buttons down yet. I'm afraid holding the Reset button down might reset it to midnight on Jan 1. Right now it's correct except that Daylight Saving Time threw it off by an hour. SinisterLefty (talk) 09:57, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

May I suggest a picture of the watch? We may recognise it and be able to find you a user manual online. Thanks Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 09:11, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Pics added. SinisterLefty (talk) 09:32, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I would take it into a shop such as a jewellers where they are used to changing watch batteries which usually involves resetting the watch.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:16, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Note that no text ever appears on the display, other than the date and time. That is, no words like "SET TIME HOURS" or "SET ALARM DATE". SinisterLefty (talk) 09:35, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Is one button recessed, so that it is harder to press accidently? If so, that's probably the one setting the time. Try pressing and holding it for a few seconds and see what happens. If that is the right button, then it will go into time setting mode, which will likely work by either: a) holding down the button will rapidly advance the time until you let go when it gets to the correct time, or b) pressing the button again will cycle through data / hour / minute / second, and you use another button to chage that. Iapetus (talk) 09:55, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

No buttons are recessed. SinisterLefty (talk) 09:58, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Is there a pin sized hole anywhere on it? Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 10:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

No. SinisterLefty (talk) 10:51, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Is it ticking? Maybe it's really a bomb lol. --Viennese Waltz 12:27, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Original question was "What to do with a watch I can't set?" Answer, chuck it in the bin. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 16:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I think I've seen this kind of watch before, and if it is that kind of watch, I know what to do. Starting from the normal time display, press MODE. This should put the watch in "stopwatch" mode. Then, without pressing any other buttons, press MODE again. This should put you in alarm-setting mode. Because you don't want to set the alarm, but rather the time, press MODE yet again. Then the current time should be shown, with the seconds flashing. Now, of the two other buttons, one should cause the seconds to reset to 00, and the other should cause the flashing "cursor" to move to the hours. Determine by experiment which of those two buttons does what. Once you have the "cursor" over the hours, pressing the other button (not MODE, and not the button that moves the cursor!) should cause the hours to change. When setting the hours, notice the A, P, or H beside the time. Those letters indicate AM, PM, and military time, respectively. When you are finished setting the time, press MODE again. 2600:1000:B143:20EB:E8E0:EBFB:39CC:EC6 (talk) 17:48, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

"H" stands for military time ? But the rest sounds correct. I did press the MODE button several times, and I think it did what you described (although it wasn't obvious that the flashing item was seconds, since it's a two digit number above the time, which is a weird place for it). I will try the other steps as you describe. Thanks ! Would you happen to have a web site with the full instructions, or a model number for one with that logic, so I can look it up ? I would also like to know how to set the date and turn the alarm off, for example. Am I correct in assuming that the LIGHT button never does anything besides turn on the light while held down ? SinisterLefty (talk) 20:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, H stands for military time (think "1800 hours" and the like). The display is not physically able to show an M, anyway. And yes, when setting the watch, you are supposed to pretend that the LIGHT button doesn't exist. The LIGHT button is only for the light. It doesn't do anything else. (On some watches of this type, there is no light.) And, as it turns out, I had a watch which works like yours lying in a drawer, so here are more detailed instructions. Starting from regular timekeeping mode, press the MODE button thrice. The seconds will then be flashing. Assuming you don't care about the seconds, press RESET to move the "cursor" to the hours. Press START (repeatedly, if necessary) to change the hours. When you are satisfied that the hours are correct, then press RESET to move the cursor to the minutes. Then press START to change the minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat. After the minutes come the date and day of the week. Press MODE once you are finished. Beware that this watch is too stupid to handle the extra day in a leap year, meaning that on February 29, 2020, your watch will show that the day of the week is Saturday (which will be right), and that the date is March 1 (which will be wrong). Then, on March 1, your watch will show March 2, and so forth, making it necessary for you to once again set the date. Now, as for setting the alarm: it works much the same as setting the time, except that you begin by pressing MODE twice rather than thrice. To disable (or enable) the alarm: In normal timekeeping mode, holding the RESET button down should cause the alarm time to be shown. While holding RESET down, tap START. This should cause an "alarm" or "bell" symbol to either appear or disappear. The symbol appears when the alarm is on, and disappears when it is off. Then let go of the RESET button. To enable or disable hourly chime: While holding RESET down, tap MODE. Then let go of the RESET button. That is about all I can figure out for now. 2600:1000:B143:20EB:E8E0:EBFB:39CC:EC6 (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the info ! Do you have a model number I can look up to find more ? SinisterLefty (talk) 06:23, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

No. All I know is that they have been around since I was a child in the 1980's, and that even today, they are very common. Wherever you see cheap digital watches for sale, chances are, you will see at least a few which behave exactly as yours does (except for the possible absence of the light and its corresponding button). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1000:B12D:2644:EC49:E6E8:463D:F87C (talk) 06:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I've noticed that with consumer electronic devices, whether basic calculators, watches, radio alarm clocks, etc., they all seem to copy each other's electronics, so no matter how much they change the appearance, there's only a few mechanisms inside. I was hoping that fact would allow somebody to recognize this type, and give me hints on how to set it. Myself, I haven't worn a watch since cell phones came out, so don't have much experience setting them. So is your watch brand also too afraid to show their name on the product ? Is it also made in China ? SinisterLefty (talk) 06:50, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Phone maze

1) Why is there no article on phone maze? 2) Who invented the phone maze? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1000:B143:20EB:E8E0:EBFB:39CC:EC6 (talk) 17:51, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

The answer to question 1) is because you didn't write it. 2) Sorry, I don't even know what a phone maze is, so I don't know who invented it. Just more details on your first question: Everything at Wikipedia exists because people exactly like you, none of whom are more important than you, saw something missing from Wikipedia, and added it themselves. Nothing at Wikipedia ever gets added unless people like you add it. So, whenever you see something missing, and want to know why, the answer is: no one added it yet. The responsibility to add things to Wikipedia is borne equally by every human on planet Earth: Literally not a single person on Earth is more responsible for improving Wikipedia than you are, so if you want to know who to blame for something not being written, there's literally no one who has more blame for that then you. It's also an easy thing to fix. To write the article, go through these steps: Step 1) Gather reliable sources of information you can use to help you write the article. Step 2) Read those sources, and in your own words, write the Wikipedia article using what you researched from those sources, being sure to cite the sources you used. Step 3) Sit back and admire a job well done. You can find more information at Wikipedia:Your first article. --Jayron32 18:51, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Apparently it's what you and I might call "the runaround".[10] I doubt there's a need for a separate article on this bit of minutia. Maybe a [sourced] sentence in an article about Customer service or something similar. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:30, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Given that there exist Wikipedia articles on minutiae such as: individual characters from, and individual episodes of, TV series; and individual backwater towns with single- and double-digit populations; and even individual tongue-twisters; why should a common, everyday thing such as a phone maze not get its own article? 2600:1000:B143:20EB:E8E0:EBFB:39CC:EC6 (talk) 20:39, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

How many times a day do you fall into this "phone maze" situation? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:51, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

This is simply bureaucratic red tape applied to telephones, no different from waiting in line to see someone only to be told to go to another line and fill out another form to take to another person, etc. --Khajidha (talk) 12:48, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

We likely have an article on the phone answering system that has you pressing numbers to step through menus, but I don't recall what it's called. Automated telephone answering system doesn't seem to be it. The painful bit I've encountered most is it asking for my customer number repeatedly, including yet again when I finally get a human. Or it makes me step through many menus, then when I finally get to the option of speaking to a human, I get a "Sorry, we're closed now" message, or it rings and nobody answers, or it just disconnects. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:35, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

A little hunting turned up Automated attendant as the likely target. As an article, it could use some love, but that appears to be the concept you're after. --Jayron32 20:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Jayron32, May also be Interactive_voice_response MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 20:53, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

See [11] for the best phone maze comedy skit I've seen, on Married with Children. Be sure to follow up with all 9 parts to get the full effect, including the Field of Dreams references at the end. SinisterLefty (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I believe part of the problem with such systems is that companies must have secretaries set them up, when it needs a full computer programmer environment, complete with unit testing, customer testing, etc. For example, you would need to plot out every possible path through the tree to see if it makes sense (avoiding asking questions it already knows, for example, and presenting options that don't apply in this case). Also, error handling is critical. For example, in the above skit, after hours on the phone, Al Bundy fell asleep and it started over again, when it should have stored his responses and offered the option to resume there, when he called back from the same number. SinisterLefty (talk) 21:28, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I don't think computer systems are necessary to create this type of situation.

40-odd years ago when I was a student in Scotland, and entitled under the then-prevailing benefits (welfare) system (funded by taxes which I myself had previously and would subsequently pay) to claim some financial support during university holidays (which periods my grant's living allowance designedly did not cover), I spent hours (and much call-cost money) over several days ringing various offices (not located in the same town, so I couldn't readily visit in person), in each of which someone would instruct me to call another, different number in a different office. After being bounced between multiple numbers in each office, it would get to the end of the offices' working day and I'd be told to start over the next morning. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195}2.122.179.237 (talk) 23:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the old run-around doesn't even require phones. They can do the same to you in person. But this is more of a feature of bureaucracy than a misapplication of technology. The combination of the two is the worst. For example, they may well want to ask you a huge number of highly intrusive questions, but having a human do so would waste their time as well as yours. But with technology, it is now possible for them to waste a great deal of your time without wasting any of theirs. Maybe consumers need to join the "arms race" with AI's of our own, that can navigate through endless menus, repeat our customer number forever, wait on hold for hours at a time, and call back the first thing in the morning every day, until we get results. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:59, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Also, if you can't find your way through all the red tape, an ombudsman may help you deal with bureaucracies. SinisterLefty (talk) 06:16, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

November 7

Construction companies

(Moved from Science Desk. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:42, 7 November 2019 (UTC))

Why is it that construction companies have a tendency to not follow rules and regulations and just focus on profit? 82.17.228.1 (talk) 23:19, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

(I assume this refers primarily to the USA.) You would need to confirm this with statistics, but what I've heard is that many were owned by Mafia families, since construction provides an ideal way to get rid of bodies (buried in foundations and such). Also, construction contracts are quite subject to bribery, since bribing a small number the government officials can produce millions in profit. And that industry is heavily unionized, with unions also having a tendency towards corruption, as in the current UAW and former Teamsters scandals (has anyone seen Jimmy Hoffa lately ?), forming a proper nexus. Finally, construction is heavily dependent on illegal immigrants, and hiring them is, well, illegal. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:26, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Blanket accusations like that are not appropriate here. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:28, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) On every single word of the OPs question and your response. At no time has the OP presented any evidence that his assertion that construction companies as a general classes or as standard price all ignore regulations, and we should refuse to answer any question to that end without that evidence. We should also never answer questions with idle speculation. Let the OP first show is where he learned this, and then let us provide referenced answers. For the love of God, this is not what this desk is for. --Jayron32 23:33, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

SinisterLefty, Idle speculation with no evidence is not suitable for the reference desk. MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 23:36, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Let's start with the union/Mafia/construction nexus: [12]. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:37, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here's one on Mafia controlled construction: [13]. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:49, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here's the high percentage of illegal immigrants in the US construction industry: [14]. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:39, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here's a source on the current UAW scandal: [15]. The Teamsters is involved in shipping construction materials to the work sites. See International_Brotherhood_of_Teamsters#Influence_of_organized_crime for the historic scandals and Jimmy Hoffa, for his involvement. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here a source showing that unionization is higher than average in the construction industry: [16]. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here's a source showing higher than average rates of criminal activity in the construction industry: [17]. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:03, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

• Here's a source on corruption in labor unions: [18]. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:16, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Cherry-picking specific material just to confirm your own prejudices is worse than saying nothing at all. How bout you just stop and go away.--Jayron32 23:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

You asked for sources, and I provided them. Now let's see your sources showing, for example, that the US construction industry does not have a larger than average proportion of illegal immigrants or of unionization, as those should be easy to verify with stats. You have now made a claim, that my sources are not representative, and you must backup that claim with sources. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:50, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Due to the power of school web filters, I cannot check these sources myself. Going to need confirmation from someone else. --MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 23:44, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Precise wording matters; it's only illegal in the U.S. to knowingly hire an unauthorized alien, or to fail to request and retain documentation of work authorization from employees, but not independent contractors. ([19] [20]) --47.146.63.87 (talk) 10:24, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Also note that corruption has the effect of increasing costs, since everyone "gets their cut". This simply wouldn't work in many industries, like in fast food restaurants. If one restaurant's food was twice as expensive due to corruption, the customers would go elsewhere and it would shut down. But government-funded construction projects can, and often do, often go well over the projected cost, without being cancelled [21]. Thus, the construction industry is more able to "support" corruption. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:31, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict] Could the OP clarify if they are just interested in the USA's construction industry, since all of the above contributions seem to focus on that country? We have numerous individual articles titles "Construction industry of [insert country here]".

In my experience, some companies (or employees thereof) in any industry anywhere will try to increase their profits by ignoring rules, regulations and laws if they think they can get away with it. The likelihood of doing so successfully will depend on the strength of relevant regulatory bodies' inspection regimes and enforcement powers and, I suppose, the general level of corruption in the country in question (see Corruption Perceptions Index). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.179.237 (talk) 00:45, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

The OP has only posted once in the last 5 months. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:46, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Please refer to the page header: We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions, or debate. I also fail to see what this has to do with science, being posted on the Science Ref Desk. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 04:37, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't belong on the Science Desk (Misc would be better, and I've now moved it), but we can certainly supply refs that relate to the Q, as I have done. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

The null hypothesis is that construction companies are as likely as companies in general to "not follow rules and regulations and just focus on profits", and I'm not aware of a strong consensus that this has been refuted. If there is strong evidence against the null hypothesis, I'm all for hearing about it, but until then, it's a debate over opinions about the construction industry, which is not what the Ref Desk is for. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 10:24, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Refuted by my links above and Iapetus below. Apparently, it depends on how you measure it.SinisterLefty (talk) 13:58, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

See cherry picking. Your sources have established that a number of individual construction companies are corrupt. Starting with a hypothesis, and then only selecting that evidence which confirms your beliefs, is not intellectually honest. To make the statement that the entirety of the industry, without qualification, is corrupt, requires more than "I found some articles about some corrupt construction companies". --Jayron32 16:48, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

And you have provided zero evidence of cherry picking. You can't make it true just be repeating it. Prove that the sources we provided are wrong, or go away. As before, you should focus on refuting those sources with statistics in them, as those are more objective. SinisterLefty (talk) 17:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

I didn't say they were wrong, I said that you were choosing sources that confirm your hypothesis after you'd already assumed the hypothesis was true. That's what cherry picking means. --Jayron32 17:18, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

And you've provided no evidence of cherry picking. Let's take just one of my sources: [22]. What evidence do you have that the info it contains is not representative ? SinisterLefty (talk) 18:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Good luck proving that your null hypothesis is valid. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:34, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

You've missed the point entirely. The null hypothesis is the only hypothesis that doesn't have to be proven. The null hypothesis is the hypothesis that proposition is not proven, so we do not treat the proposition as true. That is, in the absence of evidence to confirm the proposition, null hypothesis, that the proposition has not been proven, is what we hold as true. --Jayron32 16:45, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

I question the validity of the assertion that "construction companies are as likely as companies in general to 'not follow rules and regulations and just focus on profits'." What is the basis for that claim? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:25, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Apparently, construction is one of the most corrupt industries in the world (along with resource extraction, transportation and storage, and information and communication). Sources: [23], [24]. Note though that this is as measured by total amount spent on bribes. As measured as % of transactions that are bribes, construction ranks much lower [25]. (And of course, this is all just talking about foreign bribes, not domestic bribary, or other forms of corruption). Iapetus (talk) 10:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

That's some good information Iapetus. Thank you. --Jayron32 17:18, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

type of gun

[26] What kind of gun is this (caliber and general characterization)? Don't particularly care about the exact make or model, but am basically wondering if it is a saturday night special, whether the type of person to own this gun is likely to be clueful, etc. Thanks. 173.228.123.207 (talk) 10:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Looks like one of the compact varieties of Smith & Wesson M&P. Someguy1221 (talk) 11:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. Can you tell the caliber from looking at the bullets? 173.228.123.207 (talk) 11:25, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

The ammunition looks like 9 mm Parabellum/Luger/NATO to me (going from the proportions; the M&P is also available in .40 S&W). -- The Great Zaganza (talk) 18:01, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! 173.228.123.207 (talk) 19:49, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Watching TV while you pump gas

I'm not sure how to include this in an article, but I did make a note after seeing a newspaper article on the concept to come here and ask. Unfortunately, I forgot to list which paper. — Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:42, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

To come here and ask what? --76.69.116.4 (talk) 22:21, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

How should Wikipedia cover watching TV as you pump gas?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:33, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Ask the "tiger" from the picture on your very own userfrontpage. I bet he has a fitting answer! --Kharon (talk) 22:52, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Come closer, i want to whisper something in your ear...