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January 24

I have question about hair colour

I get my roots light blond done every 4 weeks. If I use root touch up spray product would I save money? I mean how long would the touch up last? Are root touch up used for grey hair only and not just regular brown roots? 2001:569:526A:9100:DCFF:4E6A:8ECC:2555 (talk) 05:11, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I have tried a lot of products for touch-up. If it says "temporary" anywhere, it is junk. As soon as you wash your hair, it is gone. When my hair was brown, I never found a home touch-up product that helped bleach the roots and keep the color even. I often had multi-tone blond hair. After a few months, I had to go pay extra to have it professionally cleaned up. Now that my hair is white, I use color to make it blond. There are permanent spray colors that work well. It has to be permanent. So, overall, my experience is that touch-up color can work, but touch-up bleach does not work well. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:50, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

January 25

I have a question about the wiki website called fandom

I have have account on the website called https://www.fandom.com/ which is wiki. How do I log in into that website and How can I unsubscribe? I get a lot of junk mail in my email that doesn't go to spam about articles I have edited before and I don't want to get news on when a article is updated. It's a lot of stuff that I just don't care about anymore. How can I unsubscribe to that website? 2001:569:526A:9100:751F:B2D0:4A6C:4C09 (talk) 06:10, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

That website is not affiliated to Wikipedia. When you get one of those junk mails, look for a link to unsubscribe - it's often in the small print at the bottom of the email. If it's not there, you'll need to log into your account on that website (reset your password, if you've forgotten it) and go into your account settings. There should be a setting to unsubscribe from emails. --Viennese Waltz 10:08, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The Fandom login page is here [1]. If you don't remember your password, you can reset it here [2]. Note that the link at the bottom of Fandom emails which says to update your preferences should take you to the login page if you're not logged in, and there is a link there to the forgotten password page. I think, but I'm not sure, the link at the bottom of the Fandom email which says to unsubscribe all doesn't require you to login.

AFAIK the email address you're receiving these emails from Fandom should be the same one where the reset password info will be sent. And those emails you're receiving should have your username, or at last mine do. If this doesn't work you'll likely need to contact Fandom [3].

Note that with many modern email systems, if you chose to mark those emails from Fandom as spam, it's likely your email system will learn over time to send them to your spam folder.

Alternatively most email systems should let you set up a filter to either mark all emails from Fandom as spam, or delete them or at least send there somewhere you can just ignore them. Note if you do the latter, and aren't careful how you design the filter, there's a fair chance any reset password etc emails might end up the same so remember this if you ever do want to log back in to Fandom. (Automated spam learning might be smart enough to avoid this.)

Nil Einne (talk) 10:13, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Palm Beach ballot (2000 primary election).

Hi. I would like to know if the ballot was the same in both parties primaries as well, that is, if it was a Votomatic punched ballot. I believe, however, that it was not "butterfly". Is it possible that all counties in the state adopted the same system in the primaries as well? That is, the counties that used optical scanners adopted the optical scanners, punch cards, etc. Could it be? By now (rightly) nothing can be found on the web. Thank you infinitely. 5.88.93.224 (talk) 19:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I would say that it is almost certain that the method used was the same between primaries and the general election in each county. It wold be very odd to change methods midyear like that.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 22:20, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Not really. The very first election I voted in (1972 California primary, Alameda County) was a great big sheet of paper to mark with a big pen. The general election that year was with Votomatic punched ballots. So, "almost certain", no. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 16:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

January 26

Asian sauces halal or not?

We have a student staying with us here in the US from the UAE and we’re doing halal food, or trying. I’ve gotten mixed answers looking at soy sauce, Lao gan ma, and other staples of our household. Sorta familiar with kashrut and OU, is there a similar certifying body for halal that’s, in Wikipedia speak, a similarly reliable source (i.e. broadly recognized as reliable and not fringe)?2601:601:A400:B5F5:E98F:8345:4FD:FCEE (talk) 01:25, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

There's no universal body. AFAIK, a lot of halal certification is done at a local level with some body from the place of production. Some may be done on import, but I think most of this relies on mutual recognition of certifying bodies. However sometimes, I guess either because of the lack of a local body or due to a lack of interest directly from the manufacturer you may get weird things e.g. made in Japan Kikkoman being certified by the body from the Netherlands [4].

Unfortunately where it might get complicated is ensuring there aren't multiple production lines where things might not be entirely the same and therefore despite X being halal when sold in Y, it might not be in Z. For example, I suspect most soy sauce sold in Malaysia and Indonesia is halal (although not all, I'd still check). However this doesn't guarantee the same for the same product sold elsewhere. If the bottle you have has a halal certification label on it, then it's quite likely fine assuming the person it's intended for is fine with that body but otherwise it's less clear. For major worldwide manufacturers e.g. Lee Kum Kee I expect you can probably ask them whether a specific product is halal and if it has any certifications. For more minor ones, this might not work.

Lao gan ma seems to fall into a grey area. For example their basic product of chilli oil is sold in Malaysia and doesn't seem to be sold as non halal [5] [6]. Some of their other products are fermented to might cause concern although from what I can tell, for products like that it's generally accepted the amount of alcohol is low enough that it's not a concern; and the other ingredients are not a concern. So most of these products going from a purely ingredient perspective might not even require certification.

But a bigger issue is that lao gan ma also produces products with pork in them. If these are produced in the same facilities this might be seen as a problem. [7]

Nil Einne (talk) 06:27, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Note that assuming this student is an adult, it's IMO worth speaking to them about the issues. For example, if these Asian sauces have been used to produced common Chinese foods where pork is common, AFAIK the same concerns apply. According so strict interpretations, the equipment might need to be cleaned 7 times including once with earth [8]. (The alternative is to use separate equipment.) However AFAIK most Muslims in places where there is not a Muslim majority do not follow such strict interpretations considering them too unreasonable and may be fine with a single clean. If not following such strict interpretations in home preparation, I suspect many also won't feel the need to impose them on food manufacturers. Edit: To be clear even in Muslim majority countries plenty of people don't follow such strict interpretations

Nil Einne (talk) 06:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

It's possible this might be of interest [9] although I think it comes from a Malaysian perspective. Anyway I mostly wanted to add that there are halal certification bodies in Mainland China which I think are reasonably recognised, as evidenced there and which you sometimes see on products from China. If you can read Chinese, it might be worth looking into whether any of these have said anything about lao gan ma. Nil Einne (talk) 06:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

I forgot to add that lao gan ma products containing meats besides pork are still likely to be a problem because I suspect there are not halal slaughtered. However per the earlier link, I think these are only a problem for those particular products. They may not raise the same concerns about equipment re-use in production. Also I might as well include a link to this review of food additives. While more of interest to manufacturers and certification bodies, perhaps it's still useful to give one perspective of what ingredients in a product might be a problem and why [10] Nil Einne (talk) 07:01, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Name of road formation

I'm wondering if there is a formal or technical name for this situation. Eastwest St. crosses Northsouth St. If you're westbound on Eastwest there are two lanes. When you reach Northsouth, neither of those lanes are designated for turning, but almost immediately after crossing Northsouth, one of the lanes is discontinued. Like, within 20 or 30 meters of the intersection. I hate this situation because it encourages drivers in the right lane to speed like hell through the intersection and cut off the people that were in the proper lane for continuing west. A more logical and safer choice would be to make the right lane a turning lane and not have that niggling bit of roadway on the other side of the intersection (or expand the road all the way). But is there a name for that niggling bit or for the broader situation? I plan to raise the issue with the city and want to use the proper jargon if it exists. Thanks! Matt Deres (talk) 21:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Is Eastwest St. a two-way street? If so, what are eastbound drivers supposed to do? Also, if a westbound driver who is unfamiliar with the situation crosses Northsouth St. in the wrong lane (whichever lane that is) and approaches its end, how difficult is it to merge into the other lane?  --Lambiam 21:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

There are two westbound lanes. There are two eastbound lanes as well, but they're not germane to the question. Matt Deres (talk) 18:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand the concept of "the proper lane for continuing west". Aren't they both proper lanes for continuing west? HiLo48 (talk) 00:53, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

In this example, the right lane ends, so only the left lane remains to continue west. RudolfRed (talk) 04:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

But vehicles in the right lane have every right to continue west, so long as they merge correctly. Your issue seems to be with laws and behaviour to do with merging. HiLo48 (talk) 05:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, yeah, hence my statement about trying to change it. I don't think you're picturing how the situation plays out in real-life. At a red light, both lanes fill up with traffic (if the cars in the right lane are turning right, they may do so, but the first vehicle that doesn't want to turn will trigger a log jam). When the light changes, the folks in the right lane know they have only a short distance to change lanes and the left lane is already full of cars. This isn't like a highway where there's kilometers of space, generally less congestion, and a presumption of needing to cooperate (as when you merge on). Cars on the left obviously have right of way to stay in their own lane, but the situation encourages those on the right to force their way over. In my opinion, the merging should take place further back, where there's space to safely do so. By the time they reach the intersection, folks in the right lane should be turning right. Matt Deres (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Could drivers on the left show better manners? HiLo48 (talk) 03:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Sidra Intersection's glossary calls the niggling bit simply a 'short lane', googling around a bit 'downstream merge' or 'downstream lane drop'. This report i think diagrams your situation in Fig. 1, but i can't if a right turn is allowed from Eastwest from your description. fiveby(zero) 04:31, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Matt Deres: Usually short bits of road after an intersection are used as a merge lane or acceleration lane, so that drivers turning right from from Northsouth St onto westbound Eastwest St have some room to merge/accelerate before getting to the main travel lane going west. RudolfRed (talk) 04:35, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I am assuming some U.S. centric behavior in describing this, but hopefully it is still clear on the intent of the stub lane. RudolfRed (talk) 04:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Can someone from the Big Orange tell us if this is still true of Laurel Canyon Blvd southbound at Mulholland Drive? (Made worse because a driver unacquainted with that road cannot see over the crest!) —Tamfang (talk) 00:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this will help illustrate the situation. Matt Deres (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Are there traffic lights on this intersection? With so many lanes, I would guess so, but I'm not sure what you do in Canada.

From my experience in Auckland, this sort of thing is hardly uncommon at traffic lights. Indeed sometimes a lane will intentionally split into two sometime before the traffic light, with straight through traffic allowed in both lanes, and then merge again sometime after. (Sometimes the left lane will be left turning only, to be clear, we drive on the left so this is a right turn for Canada. Of course you also get a new lane for right turning traffic sometimes although since we still have a lot of median strips, it's quite common it's just part of the median strip.)

I assume this is based on some evidence or at least a belief that having two lanes increases throughput through the intersection even with the merge needed after. Note that despite a recent push in the other direction, a lot of NZ's roads are optimised more for throughput/traffic speeds than for safety although I think that's common in Canada too albeit maybe a bit less than in the US.

Regarding HiLo48's point above, from my experience in Auckland it's quite common that roads like I describe have a merge as two lanes merging into one rather than one lane ending. This makes it clearer that both sides ideally should treat each lane fair and try to merge like zip. Plenty of Kiwi drivers are not that good at this, still they're better than I think most Malaysian drivers would be where there tends to be much more of a 'I come first' attitude.

It sounds like this might also be a thing in Australia [11] although it's not clear to me if the merges there are two into one or a lane ending. (One commentator suggests they're lane ending type.)

Nil Einne (talk) 09:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The maximum throughput of a road is reached at about 50 km/h (it depends quite a bit on safe driving attitude and average vehicle length). The speed on the intersection is slower, so throughput of a single lane on the junction is less than that of a single lane a few hectometres away. What's more, traffic on the junction is intermittent. Adding a lane just for the junction makes sense. In my country (NL, Europe), this extra lane for straight-going traffic usually starts about a hectometre before the junction and terminates about a hectometre after it. Drivers see it as an opportunity to overtake slowly accelerating lorries. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

For information: 1 hectometre (100 m; 110 yd) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Also known as half a furlong. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Then why didn't you say "a furlong or two" back and we'd all know what you meant. :-) Seriously, explaining the hectametre wasn't meant sarcastically, I had to look it up. It's bad enough converting SI units to (to me) meaningful distances, but the old metric units from the 19thC get me beat, as I suspect it would many UK or USA readers. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I know, the hectometre (and the hecto- prefix, which is the actual thing to remember) isn't the most commonly used metric unit. The distance markers put along our roads every 100 metres are generally known here as hectometre poles. It is an official SI unit. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

There isn't a specific name for this design. TLLT (two-lane left turn) is about all you will see abbreviated in road planning. It does have a clear purpose though. In a suburban area, it is common to have a one-lane road. Let's call that the east-west road. It intersects with a road (we don't care how many lanes it has) going north-south. There is a traffic light there. The traffic waiting on the north-south road to turn left on the east-west road keeps backing up to the point that it causes a lot of other traffic problems. One solution: Give the left turn a lot more green to clear it out regularly, backing everyone else up. Another solution, make two left turn lanes to reduce the length of the backup waiting to turn left. It is the same number of cars, but they don't extend back as far. But, you don't want to make the east-west road a two lane road. So, you give it two lanes just long enough to accept the two incoming left turn lanes. Then, they merge. Humans should comprehend this setup. They should alternate merge. Everyone should be happy. But, they aren't. Humans are actually very selfish, stupid, and vindictive. So, they see it as a competition to beat one another for a very short feeling of being superior to some stranger. Next topic: Why can't Americans use a traffic circle? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

As a further observation: when a similar merging situation exists in the UK, usually about one in two or three drivers in the outer lane will slow down to create a space for someone in the inner lane to merge into, and will often signal by headlight flashes or gestures that they should do so. Every driver benefits from this courtesy from time to time, so most are happy to provide it.

This behaviour is encouraged, though not mandated, in our Highway Code. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.103.187 (talk) 18:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Drivers of a BMW (or other expensive German cars) are, of course, exempted from any form of politeness to other road-users. Alansplodge (talk) 16:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, in the UK, people can queue. In the US, it is a mob rush to tranple everyone else in sight. Once, in Cardiff, I had to run to the shop to pick up a jar of pickles. When I came to the queue with just one jar in my hand, the people in line asked me to go ahead because they all had full baskets. That would never ever happen in the US. Instead, I would go to the 10-items or less fast lane and wait behind a line of people, each with far more than 10 items. Place the American ego in a vastly oversized steel machine and it becomes a raging behemoth eager to devour everyone. I try to teach my children to feel sorry for them. If risking injury to cut in front of someone on the road truly makes them feel better, they certainly have a very low opinion of themselves. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 19:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

These short lanes are also used at roundabouts. See for example this one or this one: turboroundabouts with double lane exits, narrowing to single lane after a hectometre (1/2 furlong). PiusImpavidus (talk) 20:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

In the U.S., it is officially referred to as a "merge area" and if there is no merging lane, there is supposed to be a yellow rectangular sign that states "NO MERGE AREA" along with a diamond arrow sign indicating the merge pattern. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 15:52, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 27

1939 transcontinental railroad route

I'm trying to follow Georgia O'Keeffe's route from New York to San Francisco on January 30, 1939. On arrival in California, she would take the SS Lurline from San Francisco to Oahu. All I know so far is that she left New York on January 30 and arrived in Oahu by ship on February 8. What was her likely transcontinental route from New York to California, and how long did it take if she arrived in Oahu nine days later? Did she end up in Sacramento, or did it take her as far as Oakland? Also, this seems like record time, so why was it so fast? Viriditas (talk) 20:32, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

A map in this article credited to the HathiTrust shows that train travel from New York to the San Francisco area in the 1930s took a bit over 3 days. I haven't found any specifics online about the 1930s, but in the 1950s different railroads cooperated to run through sleeping cars: at Overland Limited (UP train) it says in effect that your sleeping car could take either the New York Central or the Pennsylvania Railroad from New York to Chicago, then the Union Pacific Railroad to San Francisco. And for the Lurline, this page says it took 4+1⁄2 days from California to Honolulu. So 9 days total is about right. --142.112.220.136 (talk) 23:27, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. There's some indication that the SS Lurline was considered faster than other ships of the time. Any indication as to why in terms of engineering? Viriditas (talk) 20:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Our article mentions 19 knots service speed, 22 knots top speed. That's very similar to other ocean liners of the period (18–22 knots), and to modern-day cruise ferries. A few were significantly faster, but those were on the northern transatlantic routes, with fierce competition for speed. Maybe SS Lurline was a bit faster than her direct competitors? PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

January 30

Importance of the Super Bowl in European sports betting

What role does the Super Bowl play in European sports betting? Is it a significant factor compared to European sports events around that time? --KnightMove (talk) 08:08, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I looked at the sites listed by Hudson Reporter under the title "2024's Best European Betting Sites: Top 10 Online Sportsbooks in Europe (Update)".^[12] The top one, MyStake, has the sports categories Soccer, Basketball, Tennis and Ice Hockey. The next, Freshbet, appeared to be a clone of MyStake. The third, Gxmble, told me I had been blocked for trying to access them; same for Winstler. Cloudbet required me to sign up before they would let me see what they were about, which I chose not to do; same for MrPlay and Everygame. Betonline closed the window as soon as it opened, and so did Sportsbetting.ag. Goldenbet appeared to be running the same software as MyStake, but all in German and as far as teams sports were concerned restricted to Fußball. So I could see only one and its clone and another semi-clone, who all appeared to be blissfully unaware of American football.  --Lambiam 23:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

It might be interesting to know how many Americans bet on soccer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, we do have our own league here in the US (MLS), so that is almost guaranteed to attract some betting. And I know I hear at least a few murmurings around the World Cup. But I presume that you are really asking about Americans betting on other countries' domestic leagues. "Do Americans bet on the Premier League?" (and such). --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for that research. I now have seen that Goldenbet at least ranks American Football in 11th place... so, it's not completely ignored, but not particularily important. --KnightMove (talk) 06:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

A quick Google search shows that all the major British bookmakers (such as Betfred and Ladbrokes Coral) are advertising betting on the Super Bowl. Alansplodge (talk) 18:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I expect that most European gamblers have no idea when the Super Bowl is held if they even know what it is and could not mention even one participating NFL team.  --Lambiam 21:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The Super Bowl is shown live in England on ITV1, our main commercial channel, as well as on Sky UK. Exhibition NFL matches at Wembley Stadium generally sell out, but domestic American football has been less successful, see BAFA National Leagues.

In gambling terms, by far and away the most popular event in Britain is the Grand National, a 4¼-mile horse race in which the animals are required to jump over enormous hedges and water obstacles, so the chances of an outsider winning are quite high, the course being littered with fallen jockeys and loose horses. An estimated 13 million people placed a bet on the 2023 race [13] being almost 20% of the UK population. Alansplodge (talk) 12:52, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

January 31

Questions about Russia

Is public breastfeeding legal in Russia? Does the Russian Orthodox church, or the Eastern Orthodox church in general, have an official position about it? (Not legal advice -- as a man, I'm highly unlikely to breastfeed anyone, in public or otherwise, and as an American I'm unlikely to travel to Russia any time soon!) 2601:646:8080:FC40:3118:F122:673F:8204 (talk) 13:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I found Russia Steps in to Save UN Breastfeeding Resolution Against U.S. Opposition (2018) although the issue here is about encouraging breastfeeding over bottle-feeding baby formula (perhaps the US position is influenced by lobbying from the corporations that make it?). Alansplodge (talk) 12:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Right, but they might support breastfeeding in general while at the same time hypocritically opposing it in public on their own soil due to "public decency" reasons -- and/or, their government might be for it while their church might be against it! And that is what I'd like to find out about! (Just FYI, this has to do with a dispute I had online about this topic -- an Australian friend of mine uploaded a video of herself breastfeeding her 1-year-old son, and a Russian woman (or claiming to be Russian, at any rate) attacked her over the "shameful" nature of the video (along with some nasty comments about the shape of my Aussie friend's breasts), and I (being the American gentleman that I am) spoke out strongly in favor of my friend and in favor of the right to breastfeed in public, to which the Russkie witch replied along the lines of "We here in Russia are Eastern Orthodox, so we do not tolerate public exposure of a woman's naked body!" And that's the reason why I want to know whether or not there are indeed any laws in Russia restricting the right to breastfeed in public -- either laws specifically against it, or indecent exposure laws phrased in such a way that public breastfeeding might fall under them -- and/or whether or not the Eastern Orthodox church and/or specifically the Russian Orthodox church considers it a sin!) 2601:646:8080:FC40:0:0:0:3132 (talk) 14:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that posting a video of a breastfeeding woman on the internet, which is not useful (except if to instruct other women) and very public, is quite different from breastfeeding a child on a railway station, somewhere in a corner of the waiting room, because the child is hungry and the train is delayed. Then, what's legal and what isn't is very fuzzy in Russia. Rules are fuzzy: if the government doesn't like you, everything is illegal; if they like you, everything is allowed. There is no rule of law. The Russian church isn't independent of the government. And of course, there're a lot of Russian trolls on the internet just trolling. I wouldn't assume they're female when they claim so. I wouldn't even assume they're human. PiusImpavidus (talk) 21:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

February 2

SAT Study Guide With Holmes and Watson

In the early 1990s, a study guide (in the United States) for the SAT existed in which the author explained the test preparation concepts using a narrative (or "frame story") in which the characters Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson attempted to solve the test questions. Does anyone recall or know where to find that book? Thank you. If this is not the correct reference desk/forum, please let me know. --216.15.56.15 (talk) 02:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Dual carriageway

wp:deny
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This [14] highlights two railway stations between which the journey on foot (9 minutes) is up to two hours shorter than the journey by train. Are there any similar stations? The journey at times when people want to travel is much longer than the journey at times when they don't because the service between Stratford and Southend Central only functions late at night and at weekends. I know that you can reach London from Bury St Edmunds or Oxford in much the same time setting off in either direction but this is something different. 2A00:23C7:2B14:A201:2DD5:2589:987E:3A6 (talk) 16:04, 2 February 2024 (UTC) Not reliable sources by WP standards, but there have been various threads about this on RailUK Forums over the years. This is one with quite a lot of suggestions. For more, and for discussions of similar quirks, use the Search function and some appropriate keywords (threads like this are always prefixed "Trivia:", so I did a search on Trivia station distance, for example (without quotes). Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 16:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC) There are several London Underground journeys that are much quicker on foot, but maybe not with the differential quoted by the OP. Alansplodge (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

February 3

Closer to the future, but farther away from the past

With each passing moment, we get closer and closer to the future, but farther and farther away from the past. For example, the year 2100 is currently only 76 years away, but then it would be 75 years away from 2025, 74 years away from 2026, etc., until it goes down to being just a year away from 2099, and finally, it is exactly the year 2100. On the other hand, today is a little farther away from the event killing the non-avian dinosaurs 66 million years ago than yesterday was, then tomorrow will be even farther away from that dinosaur-killing event than today is, etc.

But is there a name for the above phenomenon? GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 05:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Time, marching on. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:17, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, as uniquely formed as this question is, Bugs is right. It's just time passing. And anyone is at liberty to pick moments in the past and in the future that are more distant or closer to the present moment. I posit that in exactly the same amount of time from the present moment (from the arbitrary femtosecond in which you are reading this) there is a non-zero possibility that an event not unlike (or quite unlike) the asteroid impact 66 million years ago will occur. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Maybe tomorrow never comes? Alansplodge (talk) 15:21, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

That's a hint at Carmen Rizzo's album The Lost Art of the Idle Moment for me, the track is called Easy way out... tomorrow never comes, if you don't make it happen... --Ouro (blah blah) 17:36, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Related to this question is another: does The Present actually exist? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.208.215 (talk) 21:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

— What do we want?

— The Present!

— When do we want it?

— Now!  --Lambiam 22:03, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Even if it does, you can never really know what it is as all information about the outside world takes time to reach any observer let alone be processed by said observer. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

While I was waiting for the future to happen it flew right past me without stopping.  --Lambiam 22:00, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

One thing is the relative time distance between things, such as will turn up in internet trivia blurbs. For example, we think of Cleopatra as being ancient, yet her lifetime is much closer to the present day than it was to when the Great Pyramid was built. It will continue that way for the next several hundred years. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Wondering what's going to happen in the future is pretty pedestrian, really. I'm more interested in what's going to happen after the future. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:37, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

That question doesn't Floor me: After Forever is succeeded by ReVamp. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.208.215 (talk) 21:56, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

I can't seem to find an article on the phenomenon. Our articles on Nostalgia and Chronocentrism get some of it, but not quite. There do seem to be a lot of related articles, so it could well be in the mix. Off the cuff, it seems like the issue is tied to the past's fixedness in comparison to the future's non-specificity. Even with our fixed calendars, the stuff of the future is indistinct and ineffable, so it feels un-anchored to reality. Like, 45 years in the past is exactly as far away as 45 years into the future, but because 45 years in the future is a nebulous concept that we cannot picture, our placement in the timeline feels weird. I dunno. But I can tell you this for free: whatever your feelings are about it now, it'll get stronger as you get older. Matt Deres (talk) 14:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

February 4

Is an IMSI-catcher able to take over an incomming call?

I already red the article but still am not sure: Could a bad-intentioned person use a device like an IMSI-catcher to make a caller believe, the called cellphone is willingly not answering? And the intenionally called cellphone does not notice anything about that incomming call? --176.7.132.36 (talk) 00:35, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

When a call goes unanswered, the reason might be that the owner of the phone is incapacitated, or cannot find the ringing phone, or it is on silent and they don't notice there is a call. So the caller cannot know whether the call not being answered is intentional. A device capable of "impersonating" a legitimate network cell (that is, presenting itself to another cell or a mobile phone in a way that is indistinguishable from a regular cell) can imitate an incoming or outgoing call remaining unanswered, and also it being answered but then immediately being hung up on. Such spoofing attacks can be prevented if the devices involved require connections to be authenticated using a secure protocol.  --Lambiam 13:49, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Indefinitely postponed trial

After a criminal case has been filed in a US district court, can the assigned judge keep postponing the trial date indefinitely (with the concurrence of the defendants), or is there some limit to their freedom to do so?  --Lambiam 21:21, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Assuming we are talking about United States law, the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees the right to a speedy trial. If someone feels this right has been violated in his case, he should consult a lawyer to appeal... strike that, we do not offer legal advice here. 85.76.128.241 (talk) 13:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

The amendment does not give the prosecution the right to a speedy trial. So this does not restrict a corrupt judge colluding with defendants who do not want a speedy trial, which was part of the premise ("with the concurrence of the defendants").  --Lambiam 14:00, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

I am not aware of any specific judicial remedy for this situation, but you might start with interlocutory appeal and see what you can find.

In egregious cases, I suppose the House could decide that the judge's behavior is a "high crime or misdemeanor" and impeach him/her. Conviction in the Senate requires a 2/3 vote so this is a heavy lift. --Trovatore (talk) 19:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't interlocutory appeal to civil cases? The issue here concerns criminal cases. Also, as long as the judge avoids issuing an order, there is nothing to appeal to.  --Lambiam 11:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Postings by banned user removed. – Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:32, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Cool stories, bros, but not of obvious direct relevance to the American system , in which, in particular, you would call that a "home run". --Trovatore (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Time limits are provided in the Speedy Trial Act. John M Baker (talk) 17:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

February 6

Birth certificate-based census

Census#Technology and elsewhere describes somewhat complex ways to count population (including going from house to house). But wouldn't digitally pulling data out from birth certificates and/or national ID documents (for which usually there's a central depository in many countries) be the easiest way to perform census (also almost in real time)? With the deceased excluded via death certificates or other cross-checking, of course. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 18:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

They have to count everyone, not just citizens. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

There are countries which do what the OP seems to be getting at. The OP seems to have missed it but our article mentions "or administrative records for the dwelling are accessed" and "Other countries that have a population register use this as a basis for all the census statistics needed by users. This is most common among Nordic countries, but requires many distinct registers to be combined, including population, housing, employment and education. and "The Netherlands has been most advanced in adopting a census using administrative data. This allows a simulated census to be conducted by linking several different administrative databases at an agreed time."

There is some more discussion in those sections and elsewhere which also briefly mention the limitations of such approaches.

Note an important point is that even when these work, they're a lot more complicated than the OP seems to envision. Even for citizens, simply using birth certificates doesn't work, the OP has mentioned deceased but most countries are not interested in counting citizens who are not living in the country as the point of a census is generally to count the country's current population not the population they could have in other circumstances.

Remember, there is no guarantee someone born in a country is ever going to come back. For starters, if they are died somewhere else this might never be reported to the country of birth. But even if they aren't dead, they might have citizen elsewhere including citizenship from birth (e.g. from parents) and so might have been living in this other country nearly their whole lives, as plenty of countries allow dual citizenship. Of course you don't need dual citizenship since they might have also given up citizenship in the country with the birth certificate and this might not be recorded anywhere in the birth record.

There might be other sources of data e.g. passport and migration records which might have info on whether the person left but the quality of these is likely to vary especially for people who left several decades ago. Likewise these records might have data on documented migrations, but again their quality is likely to vary.

For obvious reasons, none of them are likely to have good data on undocumented migrants which many countries try to count with assurances the data won't be used to pursue them in anyway. (Many countries also try to collect accurate information on earnings, again with assurances it won't be used for other things like prosecution for tax evasion.)

And you've still only figured out whether a person is living in the country. You haven't figured out where, which tends to be quite important. The census is often used for deciding election boundaries or the number of seats. There might be other data sources which have this info, or maybe there isn't. It might be required for certain social programmes, or tax purposes or it might not be; and these might only apply to a subset of the population. It's going to depend a lot on the countries.

Some data which a country is interested in collecting may intentionally not be in other records, e.g. in NZ; ethnicity, religion and more recently sexual orientation are question on the census with the ethnicity one even being sort of not optional (but you can just give an answer like Kiwi) [15]; but are things not collected elsewhere intentionally. (Official forms can ask ethnicity data for statistical purposes, but I assume this means it might be disassociated from your profile.) Even simple things like languages spoken, how you get to work, and how much unpaid work you do might not have the same opposition to collection, but are not AFAIK, generally collected elsewhere.

In federal countries you might have disputes between federal authorities and state ones. For example AFAIK in the US, birth certificate, death certificates and marriage certificates are generally issued by the states. Given the frequent disputes between states and the federal government, and the constitutional restrictions on how they interact; I'm unconvinced it would be easy to get them to hand over all the data, or to do a census properly themselves. And let's not forget the tendency of many of them to gerrymander even when they have okay census data which makes one wonder how much you can trust them to do a proper administrative-only census.

The federal government might have their own data, but again the quality is likely to vary. E.g. per my earlier point. The US has the ability for married couples to file jointly for tax purposes and I guess it might also matter for some social programmes, and perhaps if you work for them. But AFAIK, if you're not involved in any of that there's no reason the federal government has to know you're married.

I don't think you can assume even countries with national ID systems have better data, again it's going to depend on the country. I know in Malaysia you're supposed to update your address within 90 days [16] [17] [18], but plenty of people don't bother and their MyKad still has an old address [19] [20].

Beyond the data limits I already mentioned, another issue is likely to be whether such approaches are even something which the population finds acceptable. This that I said 17+ years ago IMO still applies, Talk:Census/Archive 1#Methods of performing the census. Despite the significant increases in data collection by governments, a lot of this is intentionally hidden.

In some countries like the US, but frankly a lot of the developed anglosphere like the UK, NZ, Australia and probably Canada (i.e. ironically all the Five Eyes), the census is something somewhat tolerated with the believe that their information will be protected against dodgy governments.

But I think convincing the population they should accept a system which pulls all the data the government holds on them even if it's enough, won't be easy in such countries. Even if it's simply a case of all these different departments/whatever sending all their data to the census department, I suspect you'd find strong opposition. We can see what happened to the proposal for a partly voluntary national ID in the UK: Identity Cards Act 2006.

Nil Einne (talk) 03:43, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

BTW, looking into the 2018 New Zealand census#Issues and controversies might be illustrative. As mentioned there, the 2018 census in NZ suffered from a low response rate attributed to an excessive focus on filling out the forms online. There was an attempt to fill in the gaps using administrative data, but AFAIK, it's well accepted that the quality is more limited. Dependent also on precisely what data point you're looking. Of course NZ doesn't really have the systems to do this, so it's likely the quality would be better if we did, but you can probably find some discussions on how good the data would be if we did. Nil Einne (talk) 03:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I should clarify that AFAIK, many countries recognise that they're unlikely to receive anything close to a 100% response rate, and the non-respondents are unlikely to be equally distributed. This is what dual system enumeration mentioned in our article is about, trying to plug in the gaps. Triple system enumeration which our article doesn't explain that well but I assume means combining administrative records with the other data might seem to be even better, but our article briefly discusses why it isn't easy to do. (I don't know if it's still true no one has ever done it. I don't know if 2018 in NZ really counts since it wasn't planned and I think the use of administrative records might have been limited but I'd hardly be surprised if our article is out of date or maybe the claim was never true when written.) And here we're just talking about combining records from the census with administrative ones rather then relying on them as the sole source. Nil Einne (talk) 04:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. With that in mind, I started to think about some combined methodology, e.g. electronically counting both permanent residency permits and associated birth certificates, and for those underage persons without ID documents - listed as family members in passports or elsewhere, if available. While still prone to underestimation, the related data may still be more reliable than going from house to house, it seems. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 10:13, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Going from house to house is to determine how many are actually there. In my American census for 2020, they asked how many people were living at my address on April 1. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

And to add to this, the point of a census is not only to get a general population count, but to do so with a degree of granularity that is useful for all sorts of planning purposes. For that, you not only need to know how many people there are, but where they live exactly, their age distribution, where they work, how often they move and where, what their income level is, etc. While the population count is often the most publicized result of a census, it's far from the most useful piece of data gathered. Xuxl (talk) 16:29, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The preferred term used by the United Nations and many countries is "population and housing census", since a key objective is information about household arrangements, conditions, and resources. In the UK they ask what type of central heating you have. In Ghana they ask about your source of water. In most countries they ask at least about tenure and number of rooms, and how everyone is related (or not) to each other. You can't always reliably get this stuff elsewhere. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 18:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

February 8

Anyone know this quote?

Hello! I was wondering if anyone knew who said, ‘Beware the moment you think yourself wise, for you may have just become a fool.’ I searched Wikiquote and Wikipedia, but nothing turned up.

Thanks, Shadestar474 ^(talk) 00:01, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Seems very similar but not exactly a passage from Corinthians in the Bible: [21] RudolfRed (talk) 01:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that’s it! Thank you, @RudolfRed. Shadestar474 ^(talk) 02:54, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Can A and B be true at the same time, without C being true?

Can A and B be true at the same time, without C being true?
A-There is a list of things X, that if any of the things at this list X is happening, this means there is 100% chance Y is happening. List X have all such things that would mean there is 100% chance Y is happening, excluding Y itself.
B-Y is happening.
C-This means the list X has no items, or something from the list X is happening.
177.207.99.88 (talk) 01:44, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Y might be happening for a reason unrelated to the list in A, so C would be false. RudolfRed (talk) 01:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

A concrete counterexample. List X contains exactly one thing. It is: "there is an elephant in the room". Y is, "there is an elephant in the house". If there is an elephant in the room, there is certainly an elephant in the house. So if anything on list X is happening, this means that Y is happening: condition A is satisfied. Now, actually, there is indeed an elephant in the house, so condition B is satisfied, but it is in the hallway, not in the room. Now A and B are true, but since the elephant is not in the room, nothing on list X is happening, so C is false.  --Lambiam 12:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I see that you wrote, "List X have all such things that would mean there is 100% chance Y is happening." In giving my response above I overlooked the word "all". If X is comprehensive, containing truly everything that entails Y, then Y is itself one of the things on list X. So if B is satisfied and Y is happening, something on list X is happening – to wit, Y. In this interpretation of A, A and B together imply C.  --Lambiam 19:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Lambiam: You didn't miss the word "all". It was added after your reply. [22] RudolfRed (talk) 20:23, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I edited the text to fix a mistake (I assumed the text was clear enough to show that list X would have "all such things excluding Y",) and edited again to fix another mistake (exclude Y itself from the list X).177.207.99.88 (talk) 21:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

By the principle of explosion, any statement follows from a falsehood (such as "2 + 2 = 5"). Let Y be a true statement (such as "2 + 2 = 4") and let X consist of all (and only) false statements (such as "2 + 2 = 3", "2 + 2 = 5", "7 = 77", and so on). Since Y is true, it is not on list X. Yet every statement on X, being false, implies Y, so A is satisfied. Y is true, so B is satisfied. List X is not empty, and everything on X is false, so C is not satisfied. This contradicts that A and B together imply C.  --Lambiam 01:13, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

February 9

Difference between MARC, WorldCat, and OCLC

I know these are all related to libraries, catalogs, and searching but how do they fit together or differ? 98.207.209.227 (talk) 21:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

WorldCat is an online catalogue. The company that runs worldCat is OCLC. MARC standards define a format for the interchange of cataloguing information. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

February 10

Voting operations and counting (abroad) in the presidential election in Romania

Hi. Regarding the presidential elections in Romania, how does the Diaspora voting and ballot counting consist? How are the results transmitted to Bucharest? Many thanks. 2.45.62.222 (talk) 14:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)