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October 13

Physical Punishment(s)

Trolling

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

What is the harshest physical punishment individual(s) could['ve] ever receive[d] in the history of human kind, in the physical realm? 202.134.13.128 (talk) 09:11, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a matter of opinion so we can't answer that. You can however start here: List_of_methods_of_torture and decide for yourself. You can also google something like "worst methods of torture". 196.213.35.146 (talk) 10:03, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Define "harsh". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:04, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Human cruelty knows no bounds, from history some particularly famous gruesome methods of phyiscal punishment include being Hanged, drawn and quartered, flayed, impaled, crucified, having to watch the Cleveland Browns, etc. --Jayron 32 11:09, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you're specifically thinking of methods of execution, you'll find many such lists [1] [2] [3] including, besides those already mentioned, stuff such as Scaphism. Although it always pays to make sure there's actually evidence for the method, e.g. Bamboo torture isn't backed by good evidence per our article. (Even scaphism doesn't seem to be that well supported considering the tendency of people to make up stuff about how evil someone else is.) I do agree with others though that it isn't realisticly possible to decide what is the worst, individuals will have their own opinions. I don't think you'll even find good sourcing (whether of experts or surveys) to gauge how people feel since it's simply to weird for people to be interested in ranking in that way so you'll just get stuff like those crappy lists. Nil Einne (talk) 12:36, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In literature, for thousands of years, the loss of hope is repeated as the worst punishment. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 12:38, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

^{[citation needed]}. --Jayron 32 15:36, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Countered by the old saying "Where there's life, there's hope." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:16, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inferno (Dante) is an obvious citation. MacBeth is another. It is Plato's generic hero theme: Hero is great. Hero fails. Hero loses hope. Hero gets help. Hero wins. Hooray! 71.85.51.150 (talk) 21:31, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You might not think of hell as being in the physical realm - but Dante certainly did. Have a look at his description of the punishment of Judas Iscariot. Wymspen (talk) 15:51, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No other mammal has such a disproportion between the size of the pelvic opening and that of the baby's head. Throughout history, maternal mortality was a leading cause of women's deaths. Childbirth is painful even when it goes well, and can go spectacularly wrong. Labour can last for days. To what extent can this be considered a physical punishment? There are plenty of groups within all Abrahamic religions who base their worldview on some version of "in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" - the pain of parturition is Eve's punishment for seeking knowledge. In other words, divine punishment. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:12, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is the following possible: Breaking a bone into two and a ligament into two inside the body/skin, every time pain of each set reliefs/relieves? 202.134.13.132 (talk) 05:28, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What are planning to do with all this information? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:17, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Masochist: “Hurt me!”

Sadist: “No.”

DOR (HK) (talk) 17:14, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And you are hereby presented with the Old Joke of the Day award. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:58, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball Bugs: Accquring the knowledge of What is the harshest physical punishment individual(s) could['ve] ever receive[d] in the history of human kind, in the physical realm?. Please stick to the point.

Now, is the following assumption possible i.e. Breaking a bone into two and a ligament into two inside the body/skin, every time pain of each set reliefs/relieves?

202.134.9.135 (talk) 08:13, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you're trying to gross us out, it's working. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:08, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we have this thread?--WaltCip (talk) 13:11, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you want to box it up and/or delete it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If it quacks like a troll... —2606:A000:4C0C:E200:4C0B:CDC2:99AA:D3FA (talk) 18:17, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As 'registered users', your comments should've been better than this. It seems like you have forgotten the basics of WP guides. I would love to educate you, but will respect you three for being a registered user.

Try not to make a fool out of yourself next time.

202.134.13.137 (talk) 07:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, do please educate me. I'm a slow learner.--WaltCip (talk) 12:19, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It appears he's talking to the IPv6 address rather than anyone else here. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:43, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The dynamic IPv6 editor with 1000s of article space edits since 2009, was just following-up on the implication that the thread should be boxed and/or deleted due to the evident (successful) attempts of the OP to elicit reactions instead of solicit information. —2606:A000:4C0C:E200:198D:93E0:4AF4:F57D (talk) 19:15, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for re-stating the reason why it should be boxed up. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:25, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

October 14

Landline phone problem

I have a Carrera Classic Plus landline phone that can either be used without a PSU (limited functionality) or with one (full functionality). However, whenever the PSU is plugged into the phone, there is an unpleasant level of static noise, making the phone impractical to use. Whilst I can return the phone, I got it at a good price and would prefer not to if it can be helped. What might the problem be, and what can I do?--Leon (talk) 14:35, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Have you talked to the one who sold it to you? There might be a good reason you got it cheap. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:04, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You might try to exchange it rather than return it. Most retailers prefer exchanges over returns, as that way they don't have to give back any money. StuRat (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In principle, a power conditioner may help. In practice, it may cost more than the phone, and not help much or at all. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:48, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Does the phone have batteries in addition to the PSU? If so, do you have them installed? In some situations with some devices, the batteries act sort of like a noise filter to suppress noise on the power line. -Arch dude (talk) 20:51, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

October 15

Aircraft evacuation slides

I was watching Non-Stop on the telly last night, and in the final scene, the passengers are evacuated from the crash-landed airliner by an inflatable chute which had a series of ~~vertical~~ perpendicular posts along the sides like this. I was curious about the purpose of these upright parts, but our Evacuation slide doesn't mention them. Any ideas? Alansplodge (talk) 19:49, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Throwing out wild guesses and arguing about the appropriateness of doing so.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Just a guess, but perhaps they are to keep people from going over the edge. In real world conditions, there could be rather extreme wind and/or waves, and the slide may be twisted, not straight. There's also a net on the side, to catch people who do go over the edge, but that's a last resort, and may not be part of the slide, just an add-on at the test facility. (And even if it was included with the slide, they may not have time to disentangle people from a net during an emergency.) There could also be a psychological reason, that the vertical posts look like a solid wall from the POV of a passenger about to go down, and make them less reluctant to go, and therefore faster. StuRat (talk) 19:57, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

8 minutes after the OP posts the question, you jump in with a guess? Akld guy (talk) 21:54, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2 hours after, and you jump in with nothing useful whatsoever ? StuRat (talk) 22:09, 15 October 2017 (UTC) [reply]

It would be useful if you would quit trying to be first off the block with guesses and unreferenced OR "I think it's this" posts. Akld guy (talk) 23:59, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

He was correctly suggesting that I was hoping for a reference; if one can be found, I will add it to the article. Alansplodge (talk) 22:13, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Would that he had said that, rather than taking shots at another editor. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything in Evacuation slide that answers this question. On Google Images, there are various types with various styles. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:21, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

According to this,[4] those things are tent poles. I note that the first questioner also guessed, but he guessed right. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:26, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Baseball Bugs, that's solved the mystery. Can anybody find anything I can use as a reference for the article please? I spent the last 20 minutes Googling with no success. Alansplodge (talk) 16:43, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That forum uses the following source (but I haven't attempted to verify):

"Tulmar Safety Systems: Engineered for Aviation & Defence protection". www.tulmar.com. — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:198D:93E0:4AF4:F57D (talk) 17:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This looks possible - [5]. The plane is the Airbus 330 which might also lead to the manufacturer of the slides. Wymspen (talk) 17:18, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but neither actually mentions either the canopy or the posts. Alansplodge (talk) 12:33, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The canopy is mentioned here, but not in any detail. The slides with canopy & posts are referred to as slide/rafts, and one is shown in raft configuration. The Evacuation slide article does mention slide/rafts and canopies, but nothing about the posts. 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:ACC4:13C2:F9BB:C86F (talk) 14:52, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I saw that but was hoping to find something that spelt it out. However, as the combined brains of the RefDesk have been unable to find one, I must assume that it doesn't exist on the internet. Thanks again for your efforts, one and all. Alansplodge (talk) 17:14, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

October 16

Kawasaki Leo Star

why is kawasaki Leo Star is not in the list?Hope to read more about this motorcycle thnx..https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kawasaki_motorcycles — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.105.208.178 (talk • contribs)

It is not there because nobody wrote anything about it at Wikipedia. Wikipedia text is written by random volunteers from around the world (exactly like you!) and anything which is not at Wikipedia, but belongs, is invited. If you do some research outside of Wikipedia, and find enough information to create an article, please do so! We welcome your help! --Jayron 32 11:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kawasaki Leostar SSR Picture and specifications,Video 1, 2, 3. Blooteuth (talk) 14:02, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where is this from? (laughing chimp with large handgun)

(Chimp holding a smoking gun almost the size of it's torso and laughing) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:34, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I added to the title to make it more useful. StuRat (talk) 21:43, 16 October 2017 (UTC) [reply]

It's Mr. Stubbs from Toby Tyler. Here he is turning the gun on himself. It was a simpler time. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:35, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

IMDb has nothing at all on who played the chimp, but MousePlanet says he was kidnapped from the Belgian Congo in 1956, bought for $1,000 in 1957 and appeared on The Jack Benny Program in 1959. Then he lived happily ever after on a Las Vegas ranch. Maybe still does. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:50, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Chimps can live to be 70 or more, so it is possible. StuRat (talk) 22:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kokomo Jr. worked on network TV over four decades before dying in his fifties. He has all of two IMDb credits to show for it. ~~No respect~~ Much respect from Wikipedia. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:42, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

If Kokomo Jr. were still alive, or if one were to write an article on a similar non-human but living actor, would BLP considerations apply? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.0.129.189 (talk) 04:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:12, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see nothing there specifying that only humans are considered persons in this context, whereas the article Person itself discusses the argued personhood of non-humans at some length and links to other pertinent articles touching on the subject. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.0.129.189 (talk) 14:27, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to defame, libel or slander a non-human? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:59, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A few of the hardy among us pick the career of being sexomasochistically tortured in hexadecuple HD so it only seems possible to libel 99.X% of humans (in reality, in the law this may not be true) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:20, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just possible, but relatively easy, since non-humans can't sue you for it. A dog may not be aware you're hurting his adoption chances by spreading "bad dog" stories, but those hurt nonetheless. More common to see entire genuses slandered, though individual rats, snakes and wolves still have to deal with the "spreads plague"/"constantly lies"/"murders children " allegations in their daily interactions with humans. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:57, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

In the case of (say) a chimpanzee or dog who is effectively a professional actor, their career might be harmed by false allegations, and the resultant loss of income might adversely affect their quality of future care, through adversely affecting the incomes of those such as owners and agents who benefit from that career (and who might also have legal recourse on their own behalf). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.0.129.189 (talk) 09:14, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some people say that animals can acquire copyright. This is unfortunate for one photographer, who has been almost bankrupted by fighting lawsuits claiming that the copyright of a selfie taken by a monkey using his camera belongs to the monkey. 82.14.24.95 (talk) 15:06, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See Monkey selfie copyright dispute. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:29, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

October 17

Naming convention

Hi, I would just like to ask the proper naming convention on settlements. As far as I know, Village, Province format is used, unless there are two villages with the same name within the same province. In that case Village, District, Province would be used. Is this correct? Or am I missing something? (Central Data Bank (talk) 17:23, 17 October 2017 (UTC))[reply]

If you're refering to Wikipedia naming conventions, it's complicated. Wikipedia settlement naming conventions generally vary depending on local use, and articles will have different titling conventions depending on where in the world the settlement is. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) is a rather large document, but you can probably find the convention for the part of the world you are working in. There are LOTS of subpages by country or region to help you out. --Jayron 32 19:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hardware identification

I am reupholstering seats on a boat, 2003 Sugar Sand Mirage. There is some rusted out hardware which i am having a hard time identifying. They are steel plug/clips which were pushed into a hole. Then a plastic post is pushed in and gripped by it. The headrest has the plastic posts extending from it and the main body of the chair has the holes. I would appreciate help naming this piece of hardware so I can source it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4D5:DF60:B9EE:B3CA:FBFD:EF8E (talk) 21:14, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some photos of the parts: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4D5:DF60:FD57:922B:4DC7:DB82 (talk) 01:24, 18 October 2017 (UTC) https://www.flickr.com/photos/somedumbaddress/37503893370/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/somedumbaddress/37503890680/in/datetaken/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4D5:DF60:FD57:922B:4DC7:DB82 (talk) 21:44, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

October 18

Acts of charity

Is it incorrect to tell others i.e your friends about the charity one does if the intention is to suggest to them a particular cause/NGO or to make them aware of the need to do charity?Sumalsn (talk) 06:37, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You might compare the Freudian concepts of ego and the superego. To simplify, the ego is having others think well of you, while the superego is thinking well of yourself. So, the ego would want you to tell others (or perhaps arrange for them to discover it "accidentally"), while the superego might find this distasteful, thus the two are in conflict with each other. StuRat (talk) 06:55, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Traditional Jewish teaching identifies eight levels of charitable giving, with partnering with a poor person to create a viable ongoing business venture being the highest level. Here is a description. The model values anonymity. One can publicize a worthy charity without bragging about the magnitude of one's own gifts. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity teaches the same core value do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. --Jayron 32 11:00, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What is the standard by which you expect your "incorrect" to be judged, Smalsn? There is no one standard for either behaviour or morality. It varies with place, time, cultural, religious, and moral milieu. --ColinFine (talk) 08:36, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it does, so we can provide a sampling of different moral systems and compare whether charity should be conducted anonymously under each. StuRat (talk) 16:14, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hinduism prescribes that acts of charity is to be anonymous.````

Social mores vary greatly. In the US, much philanthropy is well publicised (e.g. major donors expecting their names on buildings), whereas in Britain it has traditionally been quieter. Modern ways of donating to charity (e.g. JustGiving) make telling one's friends through social media an everyday possibility. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 11:48, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Even in the UK, praising a charity that you are involved in to your friends and recounting some telling experience is perfectly acceptable, whereas boasting about the contribution you make may be less well received. Alansplodge (talk) 16:08, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See Widow's mite. This is a complex subject:

Generalizations about who became a rescuer, who a collaborator, were and are impossible to make. Those who were rescuers defy any effort at classification. Religion, social and economic class, level of education, political views, age and gender - all fail to serve as predictors of this kind of altruistic behavior.²

Thus it was extremely difficult for the Jews to determine who might have turned foe, who remained a friend. On the run, these decisions had to be made instantly. Which lighted window on a dark night might mean a loaf of bread and warm shelter, which a hail of bullets? Which doorway must one avoid even in a raging storm? There were surprises of both kinds lurking behind those rural windows.

2.Samuel P Oliner, Pearl M Oliner Altruistic Personality: Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe. New York.

Nechama Tec, When Light Pierced the Darkness: Christian Rescue of Jews in Nazi-Occupied Poland New York 1986 ISBN 978-0-19503-643-5]

Yaffa Eliach There Once Was a World: A 900-Year Chronicle of the Shtetl of Eishyshok Boston, Mass. 1999, page 611. ISBN 0-316-23252-1.

Question about hair colour

Since light or medium blond is not very common, in adults, can dark/sandy blond be somewhat common in adults if they were a lighter blond as a child and teen? 2001:569:7671:F100:3D61:B566:A67C:7C01 (talk) 06:41, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please read our article Blond, which says "Blond hair tends to turn darker with age, and many children's blond hair turns light, medium, dark brown or black before or during their adult years." That statement is referenced, and the article includes many good references about blond hair. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:36, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See also Human hair color#Aging or achromotrichia. jnestorius^(talk) 07:58, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Word Usage

Cost from Destination "A" to Destination "B"; back n forth.

What should I be using, "back n forth" or "forth n back"?

119.30.35.177 (talk) 15:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Neither. Use "round trip" if you want the total, and "Cost from A to B and vice-versa" if you want the two individual prices. "Back and forth" (note we don't just use "n" for "and") is too vague and casual for such an inquiry. "Forth and back" isn't used at all, except perhaps in jest. StuRat (talk) 16:16, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In British English, we would say "return" for tickets [6]. "Back and forth" is the usual way around, but curiously, "there and back" is the other way. Alansplodge (talk) 17:18, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

3,800 calories a day

I'm not trying to start an argument here I am just curious about something. I've been looking at the List of countries by food energy intake article and it states that the average daily intake of calories in America is "3,800". Obviously many people in America will eat less than that, and some will eat more. However I am curious as to what weight someone who ate 3,800 calories every single day would actually be, assuming an average height of 5 foot 9 inches according to List of average human height worldwide. Thanks for your time. 159.192.227.158 (talk) 17:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A critical piece of the equation is how active the are. For example, professional cyclists consume a great deal of calories per day (in the range of 4,000 to 7,000 depending on the topography of the stage), and they are nearly all as skinny as rails. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:09, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also, all calories aren't the same, with some forms increasing metabolic rate while others are more likely to become fat. And weather is a factor, too, with cold weather requiring more calories to maintain body temp. Your best approach might just be to look at the actual average weight of people in the US rather than to try to determine what a given caloric intake will produce. StuRat (talk) 18:22, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

^{[citation needed]}. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:38, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relating daily caloric intake to weight gain is FAR too variable to be able to calculate in these broad terms. Metabolism is a messy process, as the sheer length of our (very excellent) article can attest to. --Jayron 32 19:48, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I thought 3800 sounded sort of unbelievable, till I saw this passage from the article you're quoting:

“

However the actual food consumption may be lower than the quantity shown as food availability depending on the magnitude of wastage and losses of food in the household, e.g. during storage, in preparation and cooking, as plate-waste or quantities fed to domestic animals and pets, thrown or given away.

”

After I read that, it was a lot more believable. I don't know what factor to reduce the 3800 by for waste and spoilage, but I bet it's pretty substantial. --Trovatore (talk) 20:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Trovatore. About one third of all food produced for humans is lost to waste, according to the FAO [7]. That document presents lots of detail on how different types of waste are more important for different types of food, and how waste is different regions around the world. Perhaps unsurprisingly, North America leads the world in consumer-level food waste. Honestly, I don't think this is worth digging in to from this angle, because this is not at all "food consumption" in the traditional sense of the word, it is more like "food availability" that the FAO is discussing. And in that regard, yes, USA is one of the richest countries in the world with vast agricultural production, so it's not too surprising that we'd be at or near the top of that list. And this isn't even production, it seems imports count too. TLDR: this stat is useless for understanding how many kcal an average person in the USA ingests in a day. I'm sure someone has estimates of that, but this 3800 isn't it. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:38, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that the figures are only talking about household wastage (my reading) and not agricultural/wholesale/retail wastage: "Estimated total food loss in the United States, 2010.... Losses - Consumer (percent)... Total 21[%]". See Loss-Adjusted Food Availability Documentation, United States Department of Agriculture, Economic Research Service (from the table near the bottom of the document).

Are companies allowed to edit their own article?

I was looking at the Havertys Wikipedia article. I looked at the revision history, and there is an IP that is editing the article (they're not being disruptive or anything) and the IP is from Haverty Furniture Companies, Inc, according to the WHOis. The IP is 12.129.89.3 I was just curious if companies can edit their own article or if it's a conflict of interest. Paige Matheson (talk) 18:41, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant guideline is WP:COI. The short version is, it's not outright banned, but it's strongly discouraged, and disclosing your conflict of interest is required. ApLundell (talk) 18:46, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the users' history, they've made minor factual changes (for example, when a new CFO was appointed), and they've corrected a few spelling errors. I think that's well within what would be considered acceptable. They were still supposed to disclose their bias, but I don't think it's a big deal. ApLundell (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]