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Big Z

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# Žydrūnas Ilgauskas - first Lithuanian to play in the NBA All-Star Game

Ilgauskas has never played in Lithuania National Basketbal Team. Why is he mentioned here?

but he did: http://www.fibaeurope.com/default.asp?cid={A440F8BD-44CB-4159-9FC6-547E93455FE2}&playerID=16735&teamID=2135&roundID=1288&compID={D166E39E-2323-4863-B229-76357A926FA2}&season=1995

Is this NPOV???

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"Lithuanian national basketball team is generally regarded as the second-leading force in international basketball".

I don't think it is very NPOV in my view...

Grateful Dead

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is the assistance from the grateful dead worth mentioning? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cgrantmaledy (talk • contribs) 23:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

absolutelyIulius 07:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WITH OUT A DOUBT!! I just watched "The Other Dream Team" and without the help of the band, the basketball team would not have been able to compete in the 92 olympics (unless they played with the "unified team", which they actually beat to win the bronze) --Billy Nair (talk) 05:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Last Year's club

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Why do you keep changing last years club of some players? If Zavackas, Babrauskas or some other player has contract with Lietuvos rytas it doesn't mean that he played there last year. They didn't play any games with Lietuvos rytas yet. Last season's aim is to define the club where player played last year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kraupu (talk • contribs) 04:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NFCC violations removed

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I have removed several files for failing WP:NFCC. Werieth (talk) 19:14, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User Werieth is constantly removing images from Lithuania national basketball team article, without providing any proofs that they really violate any of the WP:NFCC rules. He purely removes images without any discussions or proofs (not even reading the article!). I would call it more as a vandalism than enforcement. Here is my proofs that none of these images violate NFCC:
  • Dunking Skullman (logo).jpg is used to identify Lithuanians complicated participation in 1992 Summers Olympics. This logo is important in identification purpose as it was used to raise the funds for Lithuania national team, which almost had no money for international games (widely described in the article). It means that the image is used for "critical commentary when there is no free equivalent available that would adequately describe it" and it is low resolution image.
  • EuroBasket 1995 awards ceremony.JPG is used for critical commentary, which is widely described in the article section (Croatians left the awarding ceremony because they wished to show their disappointment in judging during the final game between Lithuania and Yugoslavia). Once again image is low resolution and free equivalent is not possible since it happened long time ago.
  • Marciulionis, Kurtinaitis, Sabonis and Chomicius (USSR team, 1988 Summer Olympics).jpg is once again used for critical commentary as Lithuanians were forced to play for Soviet Union national team (widely described in the article). It is a unique historical image as it was made by these four players close person, which means there is no free equivalent available. Image is once again low resolution, compared to the original one.
  • Feliksas Kriauciunas.JPG and Frank Lubin EuroBasket 1939.jpg is used to illustrate the subject in question (notable players). Free equivalent cannot be made because Feliksas Kriaučiūnas and Pranas Lubinas have already died. Pofka (talk) 20:25, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)

File:EuroBasket 1995 awards ceremony.JPG

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Werieth (talk) 19:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:EuroBasket 1995 awards ceremony.JPG significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, which is important (and also allowed by rules when there is no free equivalent available). Non-free image is similarly used in Basketball at the 1972 Summer Olympics. We do not need image to understand that Edeshko stepped the line either (we can just write in USSR broadcast it looked like that, and in American broadcast it looked different), but it is there since it is a important, historic action and improves readers understanding. Image quality is not a reason for removing image since it is taken from a old tape. --- Pofka (talk) 21:57, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • The quality is an issue, in order to use it, it needs to be of a specific educational value. I see a blur of green and a blur of white, with little else understandable. Im not sure what its supposed to be showing except the two teams, which can be done by text alone. Werieth (talk) 20:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is 80s... What do you expect? The main photo idea is clear. Pofka (talk) 22:25, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Try finding similar quality image from 80s TV broadcasted tape. And about clue... well reading article and only then looking at a picture would be really helpful. --- Pofka (talk) 21:57, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Coverage of the 1995 is no where close to being the same as the 1972 case. There are 3,786 words and 30 sources that support that image, In this case there are 154, and one source. That image also highlights a particular case. In this article all I see is two very blurry blobs one green, the other white standing in a row, which I must assume is the awards ceremony. Nothing in the 1995 image is being discussed. In the 1972 it is specifically highlighting a incident where the judgement of the referees is being questioned (and there is a lot of sourced third party critical commentary to support that). In this case that is lacking. Werieth (talk) 22:13, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • EVERYTHING can be described in text but there is lots of non-free images in the Wikipedia, which allows readers' to understand the situation better, feel the atmosphere. For example, File:1932_6_Metres_USA_and_CAN.jpg. We can write "6 meters boat" and that's it, but image illustrates it much greater and helps the reader grab the atmosphere of the event. It is the same with File:EuroBasket 1995 awards ceremony.JPG as it is used to perceive the event atmosphere. And about quality... Well if you have a better quality image, I would gladly accept it, however it is certainly impossible as all the broadcasts were the same quality. Pofka (talk) 10:07, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)

File:Marciulionis, Kurtinaitis, Sabonis and Chomicius (USSR team, 1988 Summer Olympics).jpg

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Werieth (talk) 19:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why are we required to have a photo? Why cant text alone suffice? There is nothing specific in the photo other than referencing the 4 men together. Why is it detrimental to not show the four men together vs text? Werieth (talk) 20:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because historical photo illustrates it far greater and is like a proof that it really happened. --- Pofka (talk) 22:17, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Critical is that these players were forced to wear USSR uniform, instead of Lithuanian. --- Pofka (talk) 22:42, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Everything can be described in a text, but text do not give adequate information like historical images. --- Pofka (talk) 22:51, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • It is used to highlight specific group of people. Text and historical photo of them is absolutely not the same. --- Pofka (talk) 23:05, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • I never stated that the two where the same, I did state that they could sever the same educational purpose. (See WP:NFCC#1). We dont have to have a photo to understand the issue (failure of the second clause of #8) Text and an image will never be equal, however often non-free files are not needed because text can convey the equivalent encyclopedic information. In this case the photo doesnt add anything that text cannot. Werieth (talk) 22:02, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wall of text will never perceive atmosphere, which is important to understand the article correctly, of significant historical events or actions. This is encyclopedia, not textpedia. Good luck in destroying Wikipedia. It seems the only thing you are able to is to vanish other people's efforts and work. --- Pofka (talk) 14:50, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia, not the fair use/non-free encyclopedia. Wikipedia's m:Mission is to minimize the usage of non-free media. We understand that a very limited usage of non-free media is needed however to cover certain topics. We have WP:NFCC for that reason, which sets the bar for usage of non-free media fairly high. In this case you have not met that bar. Werieth (talk) 13:06, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Enjoy destroying. --- Pofka (talk) 15:20, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • If files are used for the same reason in other articles, why it cannot be used in this one? Sounds unfair. --- Pofka (talk) 12:23, 30 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • The dullest example I have ever seen. Illustrating images and bank? Seriously? --- Pofka (talk) 10:46, 1 November 2013 (GMT +2)

File:Frank Lubin EuroBasket 1939.jpg

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Werieth (talk) 19:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Frank Lubin EuroBasket 1939.jpg what is the point of uploading the same image twice? It is only used to identify Feliksas Kriaučiūnas (just like in his individual article). As a result, it "significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic" and "its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." since other players have their photos there. --- Pofka (talk) 21:57, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Because having it in the main article increases readers' understanding. After all, it is used for the same reason: to identify specific person when there is no free equivalent available. Pofka (talk) 22:20, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It fails #1 because we can create a free link to Frank Lubin which would provide the same information. NFCC#8 has a second clause, that the removal of the image is detrimental to the understanding of the article as a whole, that cannot ever be made because we are providing a link to an article which contains a picture. See UUI#6. Werieth (talk) 20:35, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can create a free link, not a free image, which is completely different. Pofka (talk) 22:53, 28 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Okey, probably you are right with this one. Citation from WP:NFCC#1 answers it perfectly: "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by properly sourced text without using the non-free content at all?". It definitely can be conveyed by adding link to biographical article. My bad. --- Pofka (talk) 11:26, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)

File:Feliksas Kriauciunas.JPG

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File:Dunking Skullman (logo).jpg also was removed, but is missing in this discussion

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  • File:Dunking Skullman (logo).jpg is probably the most important logo for Lithuania national team, its significance is widely described in the article and it is a low resolution image. It cannot be used instead of Lithuania flag on top of the article because it is a classic logo, used mainly in 90s. By the way, previously it was allowed by other reviewer/administrator. --- Pofka (talk) 11:40, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)
  • Has decent commentary as it is mentioned why it is important logo and if you want more about it - "The Other Dream Team" documentary, which reveals a lot about it, is mentioned in the next line. --- Pofka (talk) 15:25, 29 October 2013 (GMT +2)

Requested move 11 March 2015

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 12:54, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Lithuania national basketball team → Lithuania men's national basketball team – This article discusses just Lithuanian men's basketball team. There is a counterpart, Lithuania women's national basketball team. George Ho (talk) 20:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why not say "per Unikalinho"? --George Ho (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Feedback from FAC

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Some items to get you further down the road toward preparing this article for Wikipedia:Featured article candidates:

  • It is excessively long and needs trimming to be more concise, or possibly split into smaller articles. Wikipedia:Article size is a good guide.
  • It contains excessive quotations. This can pose a problem with unintentional plagiarism and copyright violation. Quotations should be used very selectively—most things should be written in your own words.
  • It has numerous uncited statements. The Featured Article criteria require that all text is cited and verifiable.
  • The writing is quite below the expected standard—it will need a thorough copyedit/rewrite by someone with stronger English-language composition skills before being considered for Featured status.

Hope this helps! --Laser brain (talk) 19:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]


@Laser brain: Thanks for your short review.
  • My main goal was to make this article comprehensive, to include not only the results, but also interesting details from important games, quotations of that time and so on. I believe splitting it into parts would be better as trimming it would result in losing some of its value. I've never done such procedure yet in Wikipedia, so experienced Wikipedians help with this would be great.
  • I guess you're talking about the EuroBasket 2011 section. Well, that article is a perfect thing to perceive the atmosphere of the competition taking place in Lithuania. It includes not the whole original article, but only significant parts of it. Every line describes how important the competition was for Lithuania and its citizens and how their moods changed during it. The article never was written in English anywhere before (Russian -> Lithuanian -> English), so it is visible only in Wikipedia and probably even varies from the Russian original. I also considered to shorten it somehow previously, but every line just fits in that section so great that I was unable to omit more than a few lines, so it remained giant like that since 2011 or 2012 when I translated it and put it there.
  • Which statements? I already checked for this thing previously and added references everywhere they were missing. In "Interwar period (1920–1940)" and "Soviet and Nazi period (1940–1990)" sections every line is based on a reference. I did not added it after every point, though. Is that really necessary? I think it is clear from where the information came from.
  • This is a difficult thing to solve by myself. I am not a native speaker of English and my national language varies from it so much that at times it is so difficult to perceive the same comprehensive information in another language. I did my best to enrich my writing as much as I am able to. Sadly, my skills are limited in this. Help from professionals or the native English speakers would be very appreciated... -- Pofka (talk) 20:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Pofka: Thanks for your responses. A few additional responses:
  • Splitting it would be a good idea, then, based on what you said. You will need to find interested editors to help you with this. Perhaps you can ask at the relevant WikiProjects.
  • If a quotation is crucial to understanding the topic, it is fine for use. However, we should be paraphrasing whenever possible. Remember that this is an encyclopedia, so you should be writing with a neutral and dispassionate tone. A good example is the lengthy quotation in the third paragraph of the History section. There are many places in the article where you are writing with an emotional tone and using quotations for emotional effect—this is not an appropriate tone for an encyclopedia.
  • You do not need a citation after every sentence, but it should be clear what source is used for every sentence. If a sentence ends a paragraph and there is no citation, we do not know what source you are using. For example, "It was corrected soon on March 11, 1990."
  • I do expect that you will have to find someone else to help you with the writing. Again, you can ask at relevant WikiProjects, or you may try at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. This should be the last step after all of the content issues are settled. --Laser brain (talk) 21:49, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Laser brain: Thanks for more suggestions.
  • I am a part of WikiProject Basketball, however this project still seems to be quite limited in large works as most of important basketball-related articles are still stubs, which is just incomparable with the WikiProject Football. There still is no example how the featured basketball national team article should look like and I am trying to create that example first. I think it should be based on England national football team as it has brief history section and History of the England national football team for those who would like to know more about it. Though, none of these pages are named as Good Articles or Featured Articles, so I am not sure if that is really a good example to copy. Could you provide example how such genre article should look like to fit the Featured Article criteria? That would be very helpful.
  • Well I don't find this to be emotional tone. These are true historic facts. All my anti-SSRS and anti-Nazi lines were based on interviews from witnesses of these times. I did not wrote anything what is not based on witnesses memories. Why it is not allowed to include quotation of person who himself suffered from occupants, especially when it is very related with the article? I think many readers would be interested after reading the first section what happened to basketball in Lithuania during and after occupations. Second section covers it up perfectly. I find such article with witnesses quotations of much higher value. I had a chance to read a number of books/encyclopedias which were written in such style - with witnesses comments. It is much easier to perceive the exact atmosphere which happened back then, so as long as it is not a lie and not a propaganda - I find it fitting. Objective information = neutral information, at least for me.
As for that large quotation in EuroBasket 2011 section, I think the try to paraphrase it would result in lose of important data and would make it more difficult for readers to understand. Witness (who that journalist was) is a fine source to quote. That article never was written in English, so English readers would not be able to read the rest of it and would miss some interesting events/facts.
  • Could you provide more lines which requires addition of references? Line "It was corrected soon on March 11, 1990." is easily understandable. It is the date of Act of the Re-Establishment of the State of Lithuania. Google search tells it immediately. Probably I should put the link to this article behind the date for easier understanding. Just done that.
  • This link seems to be very useful! Thanks! I will show this article to them later. -- Pofka (talk) 09:04, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Article about EuroBasket 2011

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Might be useful in EuroBasket 2011 section if shortened and adapted to the article somehow to comply the Wikipedia standards.

"Our special correspondent visited green people planet and after gaining some knowledge from the aliens returned to Earth."

"I haven't seen anything similar to this. It seemed that I was in other planet. Even theoretically I have no clue where it is possible to observe such sight. Probably many things should coincide together that sport branch would become a real religion in one country."

"In Lithuania, in every advertisement board there is a basketball ball or a basketball net. It doesn't matter what item is advertised - bank, mobile operator or a vegetable cutter. Everybody wants to advertise this way. You will not even eat a chocolate bar without encountering Simas Jasaitis face on it."

"England is going crazy for football? But also for rugby, cricket, academic rowing... In England, it is far from the perspective when every boy wants to become a John Terry, who is strongly outperformed by Šarūnas Jasikevičius in Lithuania."

"Brazil is going crazy for football? But I never heard that they have decided to dress up Jesus Christ statue in Rio de Janeiro with a yellow champions jersey. While in Klaipėda, during the European championship, the monuments looked different, despite the fact that the national team played their games in Panevėžys."

"Lithuanians hanged 40 meter height basket decorated with 545 lights on Vilnius TV Tower. It is interesting whenever Russia has plans how to decorate Ostakino Tower during 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi or the 2018 World Football Championship? Are you able to imagine such installments in our country like football gates instead of the mausoleum, video projection on Saint Basil's Cathedral? Me either."

"Even when Darius Songaila made that stupid assist in his side of the court, which resulted in lethal Macedonians three-pointer during the last seconds, Lithuanians still had a theoretical chance in the quarterfinals game, however the Lithuanians, who discuss national basketball team roster in flowerbed, parliaments and in homes, family councils, intuitively feel the game, was already crying, some were leaving Žalgiris Arena rostrums.

Without a doubt, they were leaving to devastate the city in next couple hours. Not the richest championship country invested such amount of money and everything sorted out just like that. I would say, I started to feel the smell of site of a fire.

I started to worry less about the wrath of the nation only during the after game press conference when one of the main lose culprit - Kęstutis Kemzūra was given only one extra question. In our country, he would have been torn into shreds, but there, they spared and understood. In a nation where every housewife is a Kęstutis Kemzūra and every taxi driver knows that number 11 is not the number of football players in the team, but the number of Jonas Valančiūnas."

"Of course, the fans understood that Olympic interest game is waiting for them after next couple of hours and losing it would result in farewell of the 2012 London Olympics. Because of this, when Darius Songaila boarded the bus after the game and threw water bottle with a large force into the floor and completely disappointed hit the window, not a single fan cursed him. The crowd was quiet, the crowd sympathized.

Kaunas withstood, there was no pogroms. Kaunas was sinking the sorrow. Firstly - quietly in homes, bars, soon - in Laisvės alėja, the longest pedestrian street in Europe. After a long day, about midnight, when we were having a dinner with my colleagues in a local pizzeria, legendary Sabas came in.

A little bit fluctuating, which looked quite dangerous, keeping in mind his height, but not a single Lithuanian fan was brave enough to come near him or shout something. Everybody understood that everybody, even him, was permeated with sorrow. Of course we, cynical media strain, stopped the quiet by saying: "Arvydas, how?". Upon his answering he only helplessly spread wide his huge hands..."

"That night the police haven't recorded a single crime, despite the fact that the city was sighing until the morning, until losing of memory and until forgetting why the toot started."

"When in our country the best national team player is scolded from the rostrums, in Lithuania it is not even possible to dream about that in any cases."

"In Lithuania it is not possible to become a basketball fan, they don't support the national team. They just love it. And we all know that everybody forgives everything to their beloveds. Because of this, the next day after Lithuania fiasco, I noticed that the shopping center Kaunas "AKROPOLIS" is dead, including the shopkeepers. Then I understood that it is the final minutes of the Lithuania and Slovenia game.

Everybody - old, young, children were near a huge TV in the lobby. It was possible to steal any jewels from shops without much effort because all the shopkeepers left their workplaces, but there also was no thieves. Everybody was stiff and was waiting for the news who will get the ticket to the Olympic Qualifying Tournament."

"The host team won. Many future victories are waiting for her. Such team will win without any doubts. Because every boy dreams of becoming a Šarūnas Jasikevičius not for the money, but they just want to be loved just LIKE THAT by the whole nation."

Source: „EuroBasket 2011“ pamokos: kaip uždegti žmonių širdis (originally written in Russian by Sovsport.ru special correspondent, translated by Delfi.lt into Lithuanian, translated by myself to English) -- Pofka (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Length issues

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One one the easiest things to do to reduce the length would be to move relevant content to sub-articles (i.e. to Lithuania national basketball team at XX) leaving just short summaries behind. Renata (talk) 16:37, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Lithuania national men's basketball team

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The original title language is "Lithuanian national men's basketball team".2605:E000:1301:4777:FDCC:2983:4697:8CCC (talk) 12:53, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question Regarding 1992 Team Section

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Very interestingly and engaging article! But one part of the 1992 Olympic team section doesn't seem quite accurate, specifically, it says: "In order to qualify for the quarter-finals, the Lithuania national team had to overcome the Australian squad. Lithuanians lost the first half 45–46, though later they mightily grabbed the lead till the end of the game, winning it 98–87 and qualifying in second place for the playoffs." But looking at the wiki page for the 1992 Men's Olympic Basketball tournament, it would seem like they were assured of a spot in the quarterfinals regardless of whether they won or lost the last game (though their seed would certainly be affected). They went against Australia, both with 3-1 records at the time. Both Venezuela and China had 0-4 records going into the final game. Since the top 4 all advance, Venezuela and China were already eliminated, no? (Sorry, forgot to sign the comment)142.79.201.94 (talk) 23:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Error in pargraph

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Paragraph Eurobasket 2007 wrongfully states "which Lithuania had never won, only three golds and two silvers". Lithuanian did not get a second silver until 2013 92.40.218.69 (talk) 15:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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