Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Geography

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Geography. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

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Geography[edit]

Shore Acres, Mamaroneck[edit]

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Non-notable location within Mamaroneck, New York. Only thing I can find out about the place is that a 2021 trench collapse that killed a worker occurred there, but I doubt that alone would pass the notability criteria. Procyon117 (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Procyon117 (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Cottage Hill, Indiana[edit]

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An area on the west side of Brazil, I'm not getting reading on whether it was ever considered a town unto itself. What I can see of it looks like maybe a neighborhood, maybe just a locale.... Right now it's just a phrase on a map and the name of a cemetery. Mangoe (talk) 10:06, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Indiana. Shellwood (talk) 13:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flindt Landing station[edit]

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Non notable whistle stop on the Canadian National transcontinental line. Not even a stain station, this is just a spot along the tracks where the train will stop and let you off. –dlthewave ☎ 21:04, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. No significant coverage from independent sources. Provided sources mention it as a dot on a map, nothing more. Astaire (talk) 21:17, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Stations and Canada. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:21, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Havana, Oregon[edit]

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aka Havana Station

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PROD was removed without comment, but this place is obviously non-notable and never was. Sources consist of GNIS (not sufficient for notability) and a trivial one-word mention in a 1913 magazine ("The first section extends from Pendleton to Havana station, a distance of eight miles"). Satellite view shows empty farmland; topo maps from the 1930s suggest this was never a community but rather a rail siding possibly with a flag stop for local farmers. That is a far cry from a "community" and the article thus fails WP:GEOLAND. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 14:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Oregon. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 14:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
del -no reliable evidence that there is such an uninco community.- Altenmann >talk 17:01, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: for anyone who isn't sure why GNIS data is considered unreliable (like me before I googled it), see Wikipedia:Reliability_of_GNIS_data Mrfoogles (talk) 17:48, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless anyone can find at least one reliable source describing this: in an ideal world there would be another source that this wasn't a town but the fact that no one can find any mentions of it outside of GNIS means that it fails GNG, and is impossible to write an article about, anyway. Topo map review is also convincing, so probably not an actual place. Mrfoogles (talk) 18:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The PROD had to be successful. Agletarang (talk) 19:01, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Did User:Valfontis have an actual reason for the prod removal on a page that is blatantly false? Reywas92^Talk 16:01, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Blatantly false? Huh. What follows is a personal rant and not based on Wikipedia policy. Don't come at me, this is an essay, not an argument to keep Havana, Oregon. I haven't even looked at it yet to see if there's anything I can do. I pulled the Prod because WP:WHOAHOLDUPTHEREPARDNER. It's all I had time to do.

Look, I'm thisclose to retiring because of the deletionist bent in the Wikipedia geography area lately. Researching and upgrading articles where the info is not easily accessible takes hours (newspaper archives, books, etc.). I just finished a year of a 2nd bachelor's degree in geography. I'm busy, I'm experienced, and I'm tired. I'm not a hack. It's possible I misjudged the importance of this place, which was likely one I wrote due to it appearing on a "funny place name" list (likely included because: "oh look it's like Havana, Cuba, neat!"). Which doesn't mean it's not also possibly notable.

I'm thinking of ways to include geography information in the encyclopedia that isn't available anywhere else, that isn't a "random compilation" of information, etc. (Possibly upmerge to an article about the railroad, separate article on geography of Foo, etc. [note that IMO upmerging to a county article is silly]--also note that I don't know if this is "allowed", I am just brainstorming.) I had planned to work today on Glenwood, Lane County, Oregon as that place is actually notable, so I'm going to do that. I have a track record for writing well-sourced articles. (GNIS used to be considered an OK source BTW, I accept that it's not anymore.) Which is meaningless, I understand that, but I swear the tone of these geography discussions have become really nasty. I'll either get around to improving this article, or not, but this ain't no Blue Bucket Cow Camp, Oregon. I'm more into building up than tearing down. YMMV. WP:AGF, y'all. Cheers, Valfontis (talk) 21:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment OK, I took a look. I likely created the article because it is linked here: Oregon Route 335. What follows is a tangential discussion, not a !vote: As part of a named highway, if we are still in the business of doing a service to our readers, one might idly wonder what Havana, Oregon is all about, and want to click through and read about it. At least I think like that, and like having info at my fingertips. That said, there was an irritating propensity by the road folks to insist on redlinking to places that are not places, and this may have been an attempt to "place-ify" a redlink. I made a vow to back off from road articles for this reason and the fact I found it impossible to unlink things in the templates. I understand many of the road folks have left, so maybe it will be easier? So. I need to do more research on the individual notabilty, but it's *possible* including the info on Havana in the article about the named highway might not be the worst idea. Valfontis (talk) 21:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No hard feelings were intended. As a geography nerd myself, I appreciate the work that you're doing, and if there are reliable sources about this place then we can absolutely have an article. But I think the bar for article creation needs to be higher than "there is a redlink". Sure, the Oregon 335 article says "community", but with a little research it's obvious this isn't a community and never was. The USGS topo maps [1] show a rail siding in 1935, and a rail siding with a gravel pit in 1966, the nearest building being nearly a mile away. Today the railroad is gone; Havana is just a bend in the road. Thus, saying Havana "is" an "unincorporated community" is false on both fronts. Havana "is"n't anything outside GNIS. If sources appear then we can re-create the article, but absent such sources, we have nothing to say and we're propagating likely false information. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 23:36, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"higher than 'there is a redlink'". Yes, this is obvious to me, sorry if it didn't come across to you that way. I don't start articles if I don't think there's something there. See my next comment. Valfontis (talk) 23:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am presenting this not as a !vote, just for further information. It's really hard to search up something that has the same name as the situation in the Spanish-American War this station was likely named for, and a popular cigar. However, here are over 50 trivial mentions of Havana (station) between 1897-1922 as place to go to, be from, leave from, be born in, live near, die in, etc. It's a place. If it doesn't rise to the level of notability required by Wikipedia, fair enough, but is (was) a place. It's a place with not much more than a grain elevator and it was a regional wheat shipping point. Nobody seems to have written about it, even our beloved Oregon Geographic Names. I'm sure there are some primary sources about the naming decision by the OR&N but I'm not willing to go to that kind of effort unless it's for master's thesis. I'm taking break from trying to find the magic citation that gives weight to a "keep" argument. But this is what I have for now. I'm leaning towards a merge to the apparently nonexistent section about this rail line in the parent railway article. Valfontis (talk) 00:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep It's not much of a place, but it was referenced locally as place in a place with very few places (see my newspaper.com clips linked above). I added a bit of info based on my research and removed the now-inaccurate (per the demotion of GNIS as a reliable source) information. If deleted, I think a redirect and a brief mention in the Havana-Helix Highway article would be appropriate.

A few notes: I created this article 15 years ago, in good faith, when GNIS was considered a reliable source (and was acceptable to determine if something was a "populated place"). I selectively and thoughtfully created articles based not solely on this source but as proof of existence, coords, etc. Some places just don't have that much to say about them. If "perma stubs" are a problem (where is the community consensus on that these days?), that's OK, but think about how the info could be included elsewhere. The work of a few editors aside, these place articles, at least as far as Oregon is concerned are not "GNIS data dumps" or some other attempt to fill up the encyclopedia with useless crap. I am here to build an encyclopedia. If we could tone down the rhetoric about these articles about human settlements implying the article creators are some kind of sadly misinformed confused uneducated bumpkins, and just focus on the content, and how to improve it, we could really up the civility quotient in these AfDs. Think a place article needs deletion? Propose solutions! Where might the info fit better? Is the county article the best place to put a random blurp about a place? Also make sure you are doing the required redlink cleanup. Do quality work. If it's a bullshit place, it's a bullshit place. Most of these articles aren't that.

Request: someone please link me to "I peered at the map and determined the truth about this place" policy, as that seems to be original research. Maps are a great place to start! But I'd caution the nominator to use a more robust approach to WP:BEFORE and offer better proof (what did you check?--e.g. Google Books, JSTOR, etc.--what did you find?) before making such strong statements about how unplacelike a place is. Notability is not temporary, and history topics prior to about 2000 are notoriously hard to research on the web. I realize this is a marginal case, but sources can be found. WP:FUTON is roughly applicable. At some point I'll add this info to an article about the Pendleton Branch line of the Union Pacific Railroad as that is the reason this place exists. I need to check in with the railroad folks. Building an encyclopedia takes time. Cheers, Valfontis (talk) 20:01, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of countries by southernmost point[edit]

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Original research list that doesn't satisfy WP:NLIST I am also nominating the the related North, East, and West articles.

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Owen× ☎ 10:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There do not seem to be any sources cited for the co-ordinate locations in any of the articles. However, I think the article itself should not be deleted. The concept of the extreme latitudes and longitudes of a country or region is definitely a notable subject, and the concept of compiling and comparing different extreme points in a list should also therefore be notable. Are not some of these locations/points only notable because they are the extreme points of that location? Are you going to delete Extreme points of Africa and other articles at the same time? Spiralwidget (talk) 15:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My argument applies exactly to that one, so yes? Traumnovelle (talk) 19:38, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning keep all. I agree with Spiralwidget that extremes of latitude and longitude are notable, and therefore listworthy. BD2412 T 17:03, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
comment Assuming that the sourcing can be coughed up, this could just as well exist as a single article with the four extreme points of each country, sortable by each column (NESW). It would not surprise me to learn that there is already a list of countries which contains the information, or for that matter a list of countries by some geographical property to which these data could be added (e.g. a list ranked by area). Mangoe (talk) 04:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Republic of Pelau (micronation)[edit]

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Appears to fail WP:GNG. While I don't have access to Micronations (Ryan et al. 2006), the CBS News article doesn't mention Pelau at all. A quick WP:BEFORE doesn't give anything either, except, when the term "micronation" is removed from the search, a lot of misspellings of Palau.

Even assuming the 2006 book does indeed mention Pelau, a single book mentioning it (along with many other such micronations) isn't enough for GNG. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete as a hoax. The Micronations book is accessible through the Internet Archive ([2]) and Pelau is not mentioned anywhere. Astaire (talk) 21:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot! Looking at the page range given (pp. 90–93), the book appears to talk about the "Principality of Vikesland" and the "Great United Kiseean Kingdom", but no mention of Pelau at all. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and South Korea. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 22:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Clearly a hoax as stated above, plus the page creator had a similarly-named page (misspelling of another country) speedy deleted a month ago: [3]. I would say speedy delete if an admin hadn't already removed the CSD tag. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 03:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete G3. Mccapra (talk) 08:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Both sources fail WP:SIGCOV. Numberguy6 (talk) 16:58, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment note ongoing sockpuppet investigation. This page and Muhammad Louqman have had consistent issues with sockpuppeting before. This should be speedy deleted imo 104.232.119.107 (talk) 05:38, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ballymoreen (disambiguation)[edit]

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There are now only two articles about this topic: Ballymurreen (also known as Ballymoreen), an article which includes the electoral district; and Ballymoreen (townland). See Talk:Ballymoreen (disambiguation)#Merger proposal which appears to have been executed. A disambiguation page is therefore not now required (WP:ONEOTHER). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Ireland. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I can't find any other uses on GeoNames, Wikidata or Geograph search. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Northern England supercity[edit]

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This article was originally a duplicate of a now deleted Manchester-Liverpool Megalopolis article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liverpool-Manchester megalopolis But was renamed from Manpool (a goofy portmanteau of Manchester and Liverpool) to Northern England Supercity, increasing the scope of the article. The article now seems to be about two things, one a proposed Northern England Supercity from 2004 which went nowhere (a topic which I think fails the General Notablity Guidelines) and the Manchester-Liverpool Megalopolis (Manpool) and uses original research to combine the two ideas into one article. Eopsid (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and England. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete agree that it doesn't meet WP:GNG and while the article has been changed since, I pointed out in the talk concerning the move that the references aren't great and point to WP:SYNTH. Orange sticker (talk) 17:30, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carreg yr Halen[edit]

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Not enough significant coverage - I could only find this article; everything else is trivial mentions when discussing Menai Bridge. While its location is sourced, that doesn't make it notable, and the rest of the information in the article is unsourced and I can't find it anywhere else, so is probably original research. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 18:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Wales and Islands. Suntooooth, it/he (talk/contribs) 18:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:39, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a number of local sources exist and are quoted. The island marked one of the important ferry crossimg location of the Menai Strait before the suspension bridge was constructed. Meets the standard of WP:GEONATURAL. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 18:55, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per WP:NATFEAT. - Altenmann >talk 19:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Menai Strait: seems to be the best idea... For the dozen or so lines of text now in the article. Oaktree b (talk) 20:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Menai Bridge. This little outcrop of rock clearly has more significance to the town than to the body of water, but that significance doesn't become notability because of WP:INHERITED. Claims of being an important crossing point would meet the mark if there was any verifiable sigcov of this fact, but I don't believe there has been. Doesn't meet GEOLAND, is a tiny tidal island in the middle of nowhere, insufficient content to be its own article. BrigadierG (talk) 20:48, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

leaning delete It's not clear that the claims of the article are true. The cite for the ferry fails verification, and really I have to doubt the utility of a tiny, bare island in such a service. If we have to have something I would to go with the strait, but don't see a merger of a likely inaccurate article. Mangoe (talk) 22:49, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Al Noor City[edit]

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Similar/linked to Bridge of the Horns, this article is a crystal ball with minimal references, all of which are non-substanial and/or routine coverage of a proposal that has gone nowhere and never will. Even their website is defunct, I see it unlikely to ever reach proper notability. Macktheknifeau (talk) 05:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Middle East and Yemen. Macktheknifeau (talk) 05:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/Redirect Patently absurd concept, not a real proposal. Reywas92^Talk 14:42, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Received a flurry of news coverage in 2008-2010 but no sign of long-term notability. –dlthewave ☎ 17:58, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sirang Lupa[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Unlikely to pass WP:GEOLAND. Another barangay article made/maintained by the infamous Ivan Clarin or his socks. The only references used – a page from Calamba's official website and a source from the Philippine Statistics Authority – are not strong enough to strengthen the notability of the topic. The Calamba website may also lean towards non-independent source. A casual search on news using keywords "Sirang Lupa" AND "Calamba" only yields two results (source1 and source2), both only mentioning Sirang Lupa in a trivial, fleeting manner. At worse, redirect (again) to Calamba, Laguna. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 09:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Philippines. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 09:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to be a legally recognized administrative unit. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:45, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Crouch, Swale dozens of barangay articles have been redirected to their city/town articles, and a few were deleted through AfD's. Too many barangays (numbering around 40,000) mean too many stubbish or poorly-referenced articles to maintain, leading to frequent vandalisms or addition of unencyclopedic content like lists of schools, hospitals, facilities, businesses, landmarks, or tourist attractions. The issue was last discussed here (admittedly, there was no firm and final closure). See also Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Frequent discussions/Articles on barangays. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 06:53, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Calamba,_Laguna#Barangays per WP:ATD --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:53, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Memadangu[edit]

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Can't find anything but postal directories about this village — not even its coordinates. Unsourced since creation in 2011. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 13:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Kerala. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 13:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep WP:GEOLAND - is a census designated place, has a post office, has government recognition. BrigadierG (talk) 21:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which source says that? Geschichte (talk) 14:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are plenty, but https://www.indiatvnews.com/pincode/kerala/ernakulam/memadangu as an example BrigadierG (talk) 09:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also see https://www.indiatvnews.com/pincode/kerala/ernakulam/aluva-town-bus-stand. It doesn't mean we should have an article about the Aluva Town Bus Stand Geschichte (talk) 21:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:GEOLAND BrigadierG (talk) 08:42, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only want to know which source refers to it as a census designated place. Surely, the census itself would be the logical source, not the unuseful link you posted, and with the census, we would also have its population. Geschichte (talk) 09:03, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:GEOLAND. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:30, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a delete until the failure of WP:V is addressed. The above link doesn't help with anything, and so far the discussions has yielded little else than WP:PERX. Google Maps redirects Memadangu to Mekkadambu, but that is southwest of Muvattupuzha, not southeast. Geschichte (talk) 09:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rol Naath[edit]

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I can find no reliable sources which refer to the place or term "Rol Naath". It may need to be renamed, e.g. Nuer Nation, but is it a nation? The sources included in the article do not seem to mention Rol Naath, but I do not have full access to the offline soures. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:55, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Sudan. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @MSGJ Rol Naath is the Nuer people's home in South Sudan just like Igboland, Yorubaland in Nigeria to name a few. Nuer Nation is an English translation of what the name means. To your question "Is it a nation?", According to the dictionary, a Nation is a body of people having a common descent, history, culture, or language but without a separate or politically independent territory. It doesn't necessarily mean an independent country. Sovereignty is a different thing.

Rol Naath is part of South Sudan. South Sudan is comprised of 64 different ethnic groups and each of these groups has its own land with its name. You can't just nominate an article for deletion just because you don't know what the title means and even after reading through the article. This Nuer people are one of the most studied people in Africa by anthropologists. Please read The Nuer, The Nuer conquest, The Nuer religion, The Nuer Nation, Bok in Yel, Wut Naath, few of many reliable sources that back up this article.

To address your concern about renaming the article, according to Wikipedia:Article titles, The title must indicates what the article is about and distinguishes it from other articles. Rol Naath is what the article is about, the land of Nuer People within South Sudan and some part of Ethiopia. The title should not be the translation of what the article is about. The translations in both Arabic and English are already within the article. Gatwech Gai (talk) 22:31, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple sources around Igboland and Yorubaland in Nigeria but this article looks like a fringe claim to bolster an ethnic group land claims. If you look to the map in this article and compare it to the on in Nuer people, that becomes clear as you look to the land in the west of South Sudan.

From your work at Nuer massacre, I really think you have an axe to grind and you are using self published books and primary sources, synthetic arguments, and editorialising. FuzzyMagma (talk) 07:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You know its surprising to me to hear what a lot people think about Africans. I guess i understand now why people rarely find stuff about Africa on Wikipedia "a fringe claim to bolster an ethnic group land claim'? really? this land existed even way before the European colonization and you are making it look like Nuer are some kind of European who are trying to colonize some other ethnic groups?

there is clear traditional land borders between each ethnic groups in South Sudan and even though the country is not stable currently, its not because of land and its not because some ethnic groups want out.

Take a good look again on the maps in this article and the one in the Nuer people, do not let the grey lines confuse you, Dinka written is there on their land and Nuer is written on the portion of their land.

Leave the Nuer massacre work to its talk page. This is about the land. I checked too many articles and almost all of them are build up on combination of sources from books and others and they are perfectly fine. Gatwech Gai (talk) 09:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia:Article titles, this is clearly at the wrong title. It's also difficult to determine whether the topic is actually notable or whether it's WP:SYNTH or a WP:POVFORK, as none of the scholarly searches I can actually access which contain the phrase "Nuer nation" discuss anything the article talks about, and the sources are off-line. SportingFlyer T·C 06:45, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well per Wikipedia:Article titles, its clearly noted that the title be about the article which the Rol Naath is. How come you can't find scholarly research about the Nuer and their land when they are the most studied ethnic group in Africa? E.E. Evan Pritchards in 1940 went to Nuer land on British government order to study the Nuer, he published The Nuer Nuer Religion, which pretty much cover every aspect of Nuer people's lives. These books ended up being taught in various universities in England and United State.

There are other books that specifically talk about Rol Naath as well and you may as well take a good look The Nuer State: Rol Naath, The History of Nuer Nation 5000 BCE to 1943, The Uniques Background of the Nuer Nation.

Notes: there are many sources about the Nuer people's land out there but most of them are not for free. Any one here who think Rol Naath be deleted might first need to sacrifice some money to acquire these sources before you claim that no scholarly sources available. Gatwech Gai (talk) 05:32, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even considering that it is sometimes rendered "Rol Nath", the sources you give are clearly self-published. All of them, including "The History of Nuer Nation 5000 Bce to 1943" looks like a screed to get Nuer people to take some sort of political action, which in Africa usually leads to ethnic cleansing. Moreover, the 5000 BCE is laughable and evidence of uncorrectable bias. Abductive (reasoning) 06:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see, your point of view on this topic is leading you to difference issues. If you think Nuer land being on Wikipedia is getting them take some sort of political action, did the Igbo and Yoruba people demand political action since their lands were published on Wikipedia? Was the Nuer massacre perpetrated because of their land?

let this be about the topic in question and not making it about what you think may happen. keep that to yourself. Gatwech Gai (talk) 08:54, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, Wikipedia is not someplace to "keep it to myself". You are a keyboard warrior who very likely is one of the people who wrote/posted those unreliable sources. Abductive (reasoning) 23:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I performed scholarly research and book searches for both "Rol Naath" and "Nuer Nation" (and now "Rol Nath.") No hits for Rol Naath and Rol Nath, and "Nuer Nation" brought up 37 sources, but nothing which closely matches the topic of this article, which is about a geographic area. SportingFlyer T·C 07:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There's definitely parts of this article which could be added or merged to other articles on the Nuer people, but I'm not seeing clear GNG-qualifying sources which suggest notability for the geographic or cultural region, making this WP:SYNTH. SportingFlyer T·C 07:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"not seeing clear GNG-qualifying sources which suggest notability for the geographic or cultural region"? the 1955-56 map made by British Condominium rule in Sudan is in there and the geographical border between Dinka land and the Nuer land is very clear.

So you really think Nuer people do not have cultural region? why not check Sudan open archive (or may be you will have trouble finding source in there) if the sources that i have provided are not enough for you, seems like each one here is trying to justify his/her POV of why they want this article to be deleted but refused to acknowledge the wonderful work E.E Evan Pritchards on Nuer people.

Nuer people is unreadable by the way, one of the Nuer fellow called me yesterday to help improve the article but it look like the African input about themselves are not welcomed here but non-African input about Africa are being welcomed with open armed.

I still think this article about Nuer people's land should not be deleted. Gatwech Gai (talk) 09:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not suggesting otherwise - I am suggesting this particular article, as written, is problematic. I did find some accessible writings by Evans-Pritchard, and he calls the area "Nuerland" so I did a search on "Nuerland" which brings up far more sources, many of which are reliable, and I think it would be possible to write an article at that title. SportingFlyer T·C 16:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ comment: This article looks like a fringe claim (maybe totally a hoax too) to bolster an ethnic group's land claims. If you look to the map in this article and compare it to the on in Nuer people, that becomes clear as you look to the land in the west of South Sudan. See this video that comes as the top of the list when searching for the article title which exactly talk about ethnic separation.

From this editor work at Nuer massacre, I really think they have an axe to grind and they are using self published books and primary sources, synthetic arguments, and editorialising to do that. This editor has refused to listen and accused everyone who is pointing to the problems with the way they operate, as "working for the genocidal government of South Sudan?", or some kind of conspiracy and has been warned for it but continued with the same behaviour when challenged. You can also look no further than the discussion above.

editors can choose to merge it to the Nuer people article but please be careful to weed out what is opinion written as fact (which can be fixed) and what is just totally fabricated.

As for now, Gatwech Gai has responded to all comments, almost engaging in some serious WP:BLUD FuzzyMagma (talk) 11:14, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before you accuses me of all of that, if you can use whatever video you find on Youtube to justify the deletion of the article on Wikipedia, did you use the Puntland declaration of their own autonomy region from the rest of Somalia to delete their article on Wikipedia? or Did anyone here use the need for Igbo independent state as a reason to delete Igboland from Wikipedia?

Random talks on Youtube do not justify an article deletion from Wikipedia. Anyone can make videos on Youtube just to generate some viewers and get paid at the end of the day. There is never separation happening in South Sudan. Two of the five vice presidents of South Sudan are both Nuer.

Again, the Rol Naath article shouldn't be deleted on Wikipedia. Gatwech Gai (talk) 14:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Nuerland is Nuer people's traditional homeland. It is located in south Sudan and some part of Western Ethiopia. Nuer people call themselve Naath and their country Rol Naath. For additional reading concerning Nuerland, please see: NuerLand and its location, Nuer people distribution, The Nuer by E.E. Pritchards, The Nuer description, The Nuer:description, The Nuer people of South Sudan, Nuer custom and folklore and Sudan Open Archive. Gatwech Gai (talk)
Comment: article has been moved to Nuerland — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The flag is for “The Nuer State” and “Röl Nath” which are different from Nuerland. I think I will spend time fixing this article since it’s now about Nuerland and not a recent ethnic claim of land that came to prominence after the South Sudanese Civil War FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:50, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 01:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep I admit that it's a bit confusing with name change so I'm not exactly clear on what the goal is here. I see three books by University presses on the Nuer - which I don't have to hand but I am going to assume that they would be suitable sources for an article on this place. However, there is much in this article that is sourced to original sources or at least institutional sources that may not meet the standard of independence. That weakens the notability claim so adding more reliable sources is needed. Lamona (talk) 22:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are the sources about Nuerland (or some other placename) or are they are about the Nuer people? Would be great to have these references if you can dig them out — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:13, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see:
Evans-Pritchard, E.E. (2016) [1940]. NUER: a description of the modes of livelihood and political institutions of a nilotic people ... (classic reprint). Forgotten Books. ISBN 978-1-33380-312-4. OCLC 980437822

Shandy, Dianna J. (2006). Nuer-American Passages: Globalizing Sudanese Migration. Gainesville, Florida: U of Florida.

Kelly, Raymond Case (1985). The Nuer Conquest: The Structure and Development of an Expansionist System. University of Michigan Press. ISBN 0472080563.

I don't have access to most of them but they are entire books so I am assuming that there will be some mention of the geographical area and its history in relation to the people. I tried Open Library and there is a borrowable copy of the Evans-Pritchard book which has maps showing which groups occupy which land. I'm just going on faith, I admit. I would not object if some of this were included in the Nuer people article rather than a separate article, but I think that would mean eliminating the detail about the counties. Lamona (talk) 15:43, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep, but needs some serious copy editing. x q 22:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geography-related proposed deletions[edit]