Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 20

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AUS vs NZ and ENG vs FRA

do pages need to be created for these games (the AUS vs NZ test match this Friday and ENG vs FRA in June) im willing to start on them tomorrow if they should be needed and what exactly should i call the pages? Youndbuckerz (talk) 12:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

The ANZAC Test page already exists and if you create a specific page for one test match, you would have to do them for every test match, so I would disagree.
Ymron (talk) 13:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
As per previous years, they should be detailed in 2010 in rugby league.--Jeff79 (talk) 15:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Ymron and Jeff, YB - listing or mentioning the matches on relevant existing articles is enough. LunarLander // talk // 00:09, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Oops sorry, didn't see this thread. Mkativerata (talk) 09:51, 13 May 2010 (UTC)



I was wondering why there are non-first grade games for certain players.

Like for Jonny Raper, why is there non-first grade games because they are pointless and there is often no stats on there anyway.


It seems you're applying the modern day definition of "first grade" (NRL premiership only) to all players throughout history. This is obviously totally inappropriate and I've already referred you to my explanation in a recent previous discussion. Of course you're welcome to bring up any specific aspects of it that you think should be re-examined.--Jeff79 (talk) 07:07, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Unless I'm missing something I can't see a reference to, or count of any reserve grade games played. Are you talking about his latter career in Newcastle ? That his illustrious 12 season Sydney career then finished with 4 seasons of country football is indeed notable. Are you saying this period shouldn't be in the infobox because we don't have the stats ? There are many old players for whom this is the case and having only part of the information oughtn't prevent us presenting what is verifiable.-Sticks66 14:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Harlequins templates

There seem to be two different "navboxes" for Harlequins (Template:Harlequins RL and Template:Harlequins Rugby League). Which one should be used and which one marked for deletion? --Jameboy (talk) 18:13, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

It could do with a couple of edits but the second one is more like the new 'norm'. LunarLander // talk // 22:35, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
OK. I've marked Template:Harlequins RL for deletion. --Jameboy (talk) 09:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

more jerseys

Per request, here are some Super League jerseys.

I got a bit lost in my own work, and I know I've forgotten some, so if someone would be so kind, to cross out the ones I've done on my talk page, I will hpefully get to them by Monday.

I will not be doing any more jerseys beyond this week until next year, so any more requests I suggest you get a link and quickly put them on my tal page.

 The Windler talk  09:53, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

List of Blues players

My recollection is that the link "Players" in the NSW half of the State of Origin Template as appears at the bottom of this page used to link to an article which detailed all NSW teams per game per year. Now it seems to link to this list. It's an admirable list but it only tells us the debut game of each player. The other one enabled one to see every team in full detail. Does anyone know the article to which I refer ? I can't seem to find it anymore . -Sticks66 01:19, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Unless I'm going dotty, I recall it used to be in the same format as this Maroons article. -Sticks66 01:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
You're not going crazy - I found it here. It's now a redirect to the one you linked to. Mattlore (talk) 05:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Two issues then. 1) Both articles are distinct. There is much information in match by match list that isn't in list by debut such as position played, exactly which games he apppeared in and perhaps most helpfully one can see at a glance in the former the historical moments when wholesale team changes were made and which positions/players were chopped. So there is no justification for a re-direct and it should be undone. I can't easily recall how to do that can someone help me? 2) Think we might need consensus on which is the format which goes in the SoO template like on this page. My vote would be to mirror the Queensland listing thus the match by match list. -Sticks66 07:29, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, i created this page, but i reckon they might have to be 2 separate pages. I only made it into a list to make it much more easy for a random person to understand what's going on. It is simply a list to show what players played their debut game. What i thought at the time was that if people saw players everywhere, they wouldn't know when a player debuted. If you want the old page to exist, i suggest you make another article under a different name, like List of New South Wales rugby league team players by year or something. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 09:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I might just use the name that the article was given when it was created 3 years and 300 edits ago. Your "random person" only has to read in lead-in sentence to get that the article shows the players that have played for the New South Wales State of Origin team in every State of Origin series.-Sticks66 12:29, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Alright, alright, no need to get angry. It was just an opinion. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 12:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons update

The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 53 articles to be referenced, a 11.7% reduction from last week. Great work! The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 17:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin players

Ok, after the creation of the two lists of players by cap numbers we now have List of Queensland Maroons players, List of Queensland rugby league team players, List of New South Wales Blues players and List of New South Wales rugby league team players. I would have preferred to just keep the two initial lists, but there you go.

The original articles "List of XX rugby league team players" I have both just moved to "List of XX rugby league team squads" to better reflect there content. I would now propose that the "List of XX nickname players" articles are moved to "List of XX rugby league team players" because the articles are called "XX rugby league team" not "XX nickname". I'm also going to update the templates.

Thoughts, discussion, deletion proposals? Mattlore (talk) 04:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

There is 4 lists because 2 are for the squads for each year, and 2 are for the cap numbers. It's so people can find the caps aswell as yearly squads. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 04:28, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Personally I think we should just have the two, people can just go to the season pages for yearly squads--sss333 (talk) 08:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I think I lean that way also. Seems like duplication. I think lists like the List of Brisbane Broncos players or List of Australia national rugby league team players are the most meaningful kind.--Jeff79 (talk) 14:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, if we're gonna delete 2, i would rather the cap lists than the yearly squads. Only my opinion though. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Josh in that I think the squads are more useful than the caps, seeing as it is only a three match series each year - although if stats were added to the caps list that would increase there usefulness (but be an awful lot of work - see List of New Zealand Warriors players).
Any thoughts on the proposed move/name standardisation while we still have the two versions? I'll have to go through the proposed move process anyway as it needs to go over the redirect. Mattlore (talk) 00:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm not eager to delete either kind of list, they are both interesting. I'd prefer to keep both types ("List of XX rugby league team squads" and "List of XX rugby league team players") and use the rep team naming format i.e. no nicknames. LunarLander // talk // 00:55, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I've said my bit about my pref in the dialogue item two above but think there's room for both lists. Why not ? They each serve different purposes. Pleased to see that they're now both accessible on {Template:State of Origin} (Thanks Mattlore). And pleased that this time, dialogue was had and a search for consensus before any unilateral action was taken.-Sticks66 13:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree with Lunar Lander. That is the appropriate solution IMO. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 16:02, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I've made the request at Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Current_requests so last chance to object :) Might have to have a quick look later to check that nothing is linking to the players list that should go to the squads one. Mattlore (talk) 22:35, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

While I'm still unconvinced that there is a need for list with yearly squads and an improved list of players would do at least there aren't articles for each series' squads--sss333 (talk) 09:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Cumbria shootings

This news has made the front page of the Wikipedia website so expect there to be plenty of activity. One of the victims, Garry Purdham, was the brother of former England captain Rob Purdham and was actually a player himself for Workington Town, who play in England's third tier. The section of Rob's biography mentioning the incident was littered with euphemisms ('Shot at point blank range', for example - I've yet to find anywhere that confirms that anyway, but simply 'killed in a shooting spree' will convey the same message) and was totally unreferenced. I've cleaned it up and added three references for weight, hopefully it meets WP's standards now, but keep an eye on the article in the near future, as well as anywhere else this may be mentioned. GW(talk) 23:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I added Garry to the Workington Town and Whitehaven notable player sections, and also announced it on the rugby union project pages as well. Egremont doesn't have a page seemingly, and I don't know how notable the club is. There's talk of a memorial, or a memorial stand being set up as well. As usual, the media is giving out conflicting accounts of the event. GP wasn't tagged for the WPRL project, so I've done that as well.
It's worth mentioning (not on the article) that sadly, Rob Purdham isn't the only major sports player from the UK to have been affected by such an event. the tennis players Andy Murray and his brother Jamie Murray both come from Dunblane and were closely tied up with the events there, with Andy coming close to being a victim. Not surprisingly, Andy doesn't like talking about it, and only briefly mentions it in his biography.--MacRusgail (talk) 10:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Notability guidelines

It seems likely that Wikipedia:Notability (sports) will become a guideline at some point (replacing WP:ATH). Should Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league/Notability be adapted to become a supporting document to the rugby league notability 'overview' (given here: Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Rugby league) with definitions and more detailed explanations as Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Cricket seems to do with its link for further information?

Also, this might be of interest to contributors here: Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Individual seasons. LunarLander // talk // 22:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Just add a link to the guidelines at the top of the section in WP:NSPORT like in the cricket section.  The Windler talk  23:28, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I've added a link. LunarLander // talk // 23:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Rugby portal

Please join the discussion at Portal talk:Rugby#The future of this portal if you are interested. LunarLander // talk // 01:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

New Italian League

Anyone interested in starting the page. I believe the competition is semi professional so it might be worth creating it. details here,, YB 09:09, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Talk:List of Jews in sports#Rugby

Can someone back me up on the fact that rugby union and rugby league are completely different sports, even if they do share similarities and a common ancestry.--MacRusgail (talk) 11:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Team Colours

Any chance we'll be seeing the addition of team colours for the NRL All Star and Indigenous All Star teams? Alrin (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

French pictures treasure trove

The French wikiproject fr:Discussion Projet:Rugby à XIII#Nouvelles photos de joueurs et de matchs disponibles (English translation) has come across a nice stash of mostly French rugby league free-use images ( Some (see French discussion) are already on Commons so anybody wanting to use those ones doesn't need to upload, for ones that aren't on yet you'll need to attribute them to the photographer. LunarLander // talk // 14:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Anchors on Rugby league positions

Rugby league positions has a large number of anchor templates added to most of the section headings. This is an attempt to deal with the fact that there are thousands of rugby player articles that link to sections on this page. As these section names change over time, the section links that worked before become broken. Adding anchors to each section name is one way to try and deal with this problem, but it is limited to 10 anchors per {{Anchor}} template (you can always add more anchor templates, but at some point this gets a bit silly, and so far I think Rugby league positions may be the worst offender on the entire English language wikipedia in this when it comes to the total number of different anchors that link to it).

I have been working on fixing broken section links for several months now, and have recently been operating a bot, User:BrokenAnchorBot, which specializes in fixing such things. There is nothing technically wrong with using the anchor template, but despite all the explicit anchors given in the templates, there were still hundreds of broken section links (or at least there were a few months ago, most have been fixed) to this page, which makes me suspect it is both an inadequate attempt to prevent an inevitable problem (ie. that the section links will tend to break over time), and only encourages anyone that might be editing a rugby player article to link to one of the old sections (it seems likely one might just copy/paste the link from another article that already works, not even realizing that there is section that can be linked to instead of just an old anchor).

User:BrokenAnchorBot can point all of these links quite easily to the current name of the section (this would also be a good time to decide on the best names for each section, as any changes would get fixed along the way) but it won't touch these links without consensus (It fixes broken anchors only...and these anchors aren't broken at all...only a bit ugly.) I would ask the BAG group for any approval to do such a thing, and would only do it with consensus from the project, but it strikes me as a noble cause, and would be quite easy. Cheers (and apologies for the number of parenthetical remarks, including this one :) ). Winston365 (talk) 06:08, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the message and the offer, Winston. I'd like to claim credit as the worst anchor offender on the English language wikipedia, there is another article with fewer incoming links that uses even more! (I'll let you discover it.)
Rugby league positions is a pretty unpleasant article that I've stayed away from recently because of its mixture of edit warring, unproductive edits and vandalism. Because of that, I don't really have an answer as to what is correct and I'm not sure of the consensus on position names. I'll wait for more input from other project members. LunarLander // talk // 23:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC) piqued my interest. I tried plowing through an XML dump (the things I do for fun...) from a few weeks ago. There certainly are a few pages with more anchors on them. Could you be thinking of List of rugby league terms? In my scan that showed up with the most anchors (at least, anchors added using templates, as opposed to an html tag of some sort) of any page, with a whopping 734! In articles that begin with 'List' or 'Glossary' anchors are fairly common (broken anchors to these pages are even more common, and not easy to fix), along with other articles that are essentially just list of things, such as ATCvet code QI01 (not the best read on the wiki if you ask me), and Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament. Do let me know which page you were thinking of though...I do like playing these games, but not finding it could point to a bug in my bot, and I'd like to fix it sooner rather than later. Just looking into the question for a little while was actually quite useful, so thanks LunarLander! :)
As for removing the anchors, I'm for now just slightly against it (despite having proposed it). The only good reason I can see right now to do it (I'm not convinced 'ugly' is a good enough reason right now) is to discourage people from thinking the extra anchors actually help the problem. I worked over an XML dump from January today, which is before I started fixing broken anchors, and Rugby league positions did originally have about 1050 broken links to it, making it the second most effected page on the wiki, although still well behind Association football positions. All of the a_sport positions articles had similar problems. It would be nice to settle on some sort of 'canonical' section names, as Rugby union positions has done to some extent (although that page also had a large number of broken anchor links to it...around still in the top ten). I'll let it soak for a while...there is certainly no rush to do anything.
Oh, and just to be clear, I am in no way trying to disparage the Rugby League project in any way by pointing these things out. After all, we are all on the same team. Cheers! Winston365 (talk) 02:54, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
You've found it, it's List of rugby league terms. I'm glad to have given you a useful question to answer! LunarLander // talk // 16:08, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Categories: Bulldogs RLFC to Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs

Nomination here: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_6#Category:Bulldogs_Rugby_League_Football_Club LunarLander // talk // 01:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Supporters sections...

Are being discussed specifically fro the Sydney Roosters at Talk:Sydney_Roosters#Supporters. There has been some heated reverting so it'd be good to get consensus. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. He's going around removing them from all clubs' articles now. Thanks for bringing it it up.--Jeff79 (talk) 16:28, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

The Matty Johns Show

Hi, everyone. I'm looking for collaborators on this article. It would be great if someone could give this article a thorough edit. We especially need some references in the 'History' section. - Richard Cavell (talk) 22:26, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk pages watchlist

I've added a 'Talk page watchlist' to the header bar at the top of this page, it could be useful in helping to notice discussions on rugby league pages. It works by showing changes to any page that links to the project banner template, so as long as the banner is present on a talk page the changes will show.

I plan at some point to finish sorting a project watchlist for RL articles by listing links to every RL page on one page and then setting up a link to Recent Changes. Unfortunately, the automated bot that once did this for the CFL project is no longer operating so it will have to be done (and updated) manually. LunarLander // talk // 15:52, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to User:Tim1357, we now have a project watchlist here. It's also at the bottom of the project page and in the header at the top of this project talk page. LunarLander // talk // 03:03, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The Rugby Forum

Needs a re-assessment to see if it really covers league and union, or if it's a union site with a few league forums. If it's the latter case—which editors to the article have recently asserted—I don't see this being B-level importance in the project. —C.Fred (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I've moved this here as it was posted on the assessment page and I don't think it would have got the attention that it needed over there.GordyB (talk) 21:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't seem to be a rugby league website. LunarLander // talk // 02:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Rugby League Player Notability Question

Can I have some input please on a number of what I think are going to be Wikipedia:Permastub created by Youndbuckerz (talk · contribs) on American rugby league players - I have suggested to Youndbuckerz that this does not appear to be such a good idea (see WP:Kittens), and following some advice from Mkativerata have decided to seek advice here before a bulk AfD. We both don't see how these players meet any relevant notability criteria (WP:NSPORT or WP:GNG).

This is the list I have found so far, I have removed from the list any that have any international caps and any that are already PROD'ed.

Jared Frymoyer (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Larry Madden (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Worthington (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Patrick Quirk (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nick Rutberg (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nate Bangura (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Sean Donahoe (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Michael Bozza (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mathew Kelliher (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mike Schacter (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jeffrey Perkins (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Benjamin McHugh (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jonathan Mixon (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Tyler Scullen (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Rob Cabrera (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Christopher Carey (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Calder Orr (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Abraham Cohen (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Fitzjames Adams (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Eric Shimon (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dwayne Jenkins (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dave LaCroix (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Danny Hanson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Christian Seaman (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Chris Ferezan (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Chad Quimby (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Chad Culpepper (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Phantom Prompol (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
John Young (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ben Goldstein (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Anthony Elghossain (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Anthony Ng (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Andrew LaBarge (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Andrew Panek (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Luke Gray (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Adrian Grayson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Craig Howitt (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mike Timpano (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jamie Uyttewaal (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dan Van Dellen (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jay DeFau (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Zac Matta (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Schell (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
John Winn (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Josh Longenecker (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Justin Sphaler (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Marc Hanke (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nick Shea (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dylan Beaver (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Brian Eschen (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Richard Alleger (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jeremy Gerondal (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Booker Bess (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Trevor Peterson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Chris Yergan (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Justin Xenelis (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Brian Schacht (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Sbordone (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Joe Roucken (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Damien O'Malveney (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Keith Nelson (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Patrick Hermann (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dillon Ford (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Michael Downey (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jon Paul Davis (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Callan (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Noel Tupou (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Kenny Britt (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
George Aroyan (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Daniel Sansone (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Hannibal Vaivao (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Daniel Rauicava (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Liam Roach (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Adam Henderson (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dean Jamieson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Guillaume Cieutat (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Rob Balachandran (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Steve De Vera (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Xavier Lozinguez (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Olof Matti (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mario Leonel (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Epeli Rokotuieikau (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Andrew Le Breton (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)

So my question is, do the members of the project agree that they do not meet the notability requirements ? are there any in the above list that do meet them and should not be included in any bulk AfD ?

Thanks for your help ?

Codf1977 (talk) 07:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC) I have informed Youndbuckerz about this here Codf1977 (talk) 07:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Add to that the de'proded Brad Sherman (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views) Codf1977 (talk) 08:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Alot of them seem to be American rugby league players and their league is undergoing major advances, but I couldn't tell you whether it can be considered a fully professional league. There are alot of those guys who are internationals and so qualify for an article under that criteria.The Infoboxer (talk) 14:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Any of the stubs that were created that made reference to international caps or international team call ups (in at least one case) I excluded from the above list so I am fairly sure that if any of the above are internationals the stub does not mention it and it is not my intention to list any player with a international cap for AfD so if you know of any listed please note them or strike them out . As for the status of the American National Rugby League (and with all due caution to citing WP it'self) the lead says it is a "competition for amateur/semi-professional clubs" Codf1977 (talk) 15:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm imagining the author is basing them in playing in an All-Stars game, which could be the equivalent of a representative team. Once again I don't know enough about RL in America to say what's what, so probably best to do some digging around the subject, before burying the players.The Infoboxer (talk) 15:25, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I did do some digging on a sample of the players listed above after I compiled it, using {{find sources}} as a good starting point and came up with nothing on most and the occasional link back to team websites and the like, nothing else showing any real coverage. Codf1977 (talk) 16:02, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The all-star team or "Red vs Blue", is not what you would call representative, it is not on a par with International or even State of Origin. Codf1977 (talk) 17:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Codf1977, Rob Balachandran should be removed from the list, he's coach and CEO of New York Knights, and I think he has been an international. He's also go some added notability points from his in business and politics activities. LunarLander // talk // 04:01, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Opps - Missed that one - will not AfD on that one. Codf1977 (talk) 16:39, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Throughout 2010, many Wikipedia editors have worked hard to halve the number of unreferenced biographical articles (UBLPs) from more than 52,000 in January to under 26,000 now. The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons has assisted in many ways, including helping to setup a bot, which runs daily, compiling lists of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league/Unreferenced BLPs. Currently you have approximately 92 articles to be referenced. Other project lists can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. We've done a lot, but we still have a long way to go. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 12:43, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Tidy up notability guidelines for RL players

I have proposed a change to the notability guidelines for RL players at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports) please see here to comment.

Thanks Codf1977 (talk) 11:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Replied. LunarLander // talk // 14:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Getting close ...

I think we are getting close with regard to updates notability guidelines with :

A player, coach or referee of rugby league football is presumed notable if they :

  1. have appeared in at least one international test match for a test playing team (A "test playing team" is defined as a full member of the RLIF) (See Note 1)
  2. have appeared in at least one match at a Rugby League World Cup finals.
  3. have have appeared in at least one match of a fully professional domestic Rugby league competition :
    (Note 1 : Current full members of the RLIF are Australia, Cook Islands, England, Fiji, France, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Russia, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga and Wales[1] plus Great Britain for historical reasons)
    (Note 2 : or their earlier iterations in the UK or Australia)

Other personalities surrounding the game are notable if they meet the WP:GNG.

However The Infoboxer (talk · contribs) has raised concerns with regard to item 1 being restricted to full members of the RLIF. As it is not my intention to make the guidelines "harder" but to actually have them define what "first grade rugby" is. I have asked The Infoboxer (talk · contribs) for examples of any player coach or referee that meets the WP:GNG that would not be seen as notable by the proposed guidelines but as of now has not replied - so my question is can anyone else ? Codf1977 (talk) 10:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Have now left a response there with regards to teams such as Ireland, Scotland and the Lebanon who feature in full internationals.The Infoboxer (talk) 10:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Final version

Think that after a lot of discussion this looks like the agreed on wording :

A player, coach or referee of rugby league football is presumed notable if they :

  1. have appeared in at least one international test match for a test playing team (A "test playing team" is defined as a full member of the RLIF or Full or Associate Member of the RLEF) (See Note 1 & 2)
  2. have appeared in at least one match at a Rugby League World Cup finals.
  3. have have appeared in at least one match of a fully professional domestic Rugby league competition :

Other players and personalities surrounding the game are notable if they meet the WP:GNG.

(Note 1 : Current full members of the RLIF are : Australia, Cook Islands, England, Fiji, France, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Russia, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga and Wales[2] plus Great Britain for historical reasons).
(Note 2 : All current full members of the RLEF are also full members of the RLIF. Current associate members of the RLEF are : Ireland, Lebanon, Scotland and Serbia[3]).
(Note 3 : or their earlier iterations in the UK, Australia or New Zealand).

any more comments ? Codf1977 (talk) 13:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm not overly fussed about all of this because I think the huge amounts of work needed to be done on people that are unquestionably notable (New Zealand's team of the century for example) are of higher priority, but I thought I'd just give my two cents: I'm a little surprised by the 3rd point which says it must be a World Cup finals match. I would have thought even pool matches of a World Cup recieve greater international media coverage than even the finals of lesser tournaments.--Jeff79 (talk) 14:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
That is matches at World Cup finals including group matches, QF, SF and the final as opposed to pre tournament qualifying matches. Codf1977 (talk) 14:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
to avoid confusion will change the word finals to tournament.Codf1977 (talk) 14:41, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

RFC On Differing Football Nomenclature

Hello, i'm looking for input from the Wikiprojects on all the Football codes so we can get a standardized wording for each brand of the sport. Doc Quintana (talk) 18:50, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

You'll pardon me if I decline to enter that old hoary argument.-Sticks66 14:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


Not sure if anyone else has noticed, but our old mate Londo is back once again, this time as User:The Infoboxer. We've been reverting each other over his attempts to put what I believe are non-notable nicknames into players' infoboxes. Rather than reporting him again, I'm giving him a chance to be constructive, and, to his credit, he's tried putting citations in for some of them (player bios on club websites). However I still don't think this satisfies the required notablity for such a prominent place in a quality Wikipedia article (or a place at all). My suggestion for testing if a nickname is notable enough to be included is if it is used in headlines of reliable, third-party publications. For example, Trevor Gillmeister's well known nickname 'The Axe' can be checked by doing a archive search on "the axe" gillmeister (or Luke Patten for instance). On the other hand, for the nickname currently in Michael Vella's infobox a similar search on "mickey v" vella doesn't hold up. If a nickname is truly notable, then reliable, third-party publications will expect readers to know who they mean if they use it without any context (i.e. in a headline). Furthermore, I think simply finding something like "...the player known as suchandsuch..." within a published article does not quite establish this notability. The aforementioned test can work well as a starting point for getting rid of non-notable and unreferenced nicknames that are becoming a rash on rugby league BLPs, but naturally each case can still be dealt with individually on their talk pages if necessary.--Jeff79 (talk) 06:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

What are you on about, you've been removing material. If I can cite material that supports the nickname fine, if there is nothing to back up a nickname then it would be fair-game for a discussion for its removal. To make cited material up for debate over names that are used by pundits, commentators and fans alike, names that have evidence through cited sources is a bridge too far.The Infoboxer (talk) 09:51, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
The question as I see it is the nickname used by those outside the close confines of the club, so IMO it can be included if any independent reliable source can be found to support it's use. By independent I exclude fan sites, the club, the player or facebook. Codf1977 (talk) 10:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. Edits like this will continue to be reverted. Notable nicknames only at the front-end of articles please.--Jeff79 (talk) 18:12, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Request for photographs and images

To help address the many requests for photographs People-photo-bot has moved article talk pages from Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of people and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of sportspeople to Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of rugby league people if it contains the template {{WikiProject Rugby league}}. Members of this project are invited to address the requests for images listed. Please note that some articles may now have an appropriate photograph and that the need-image flag has simply not been removed, this can also be checked using the Image Existence Checker link on the category page. If a page has been incorrectly moved please inform me on my talk page.--Traveler100 (talk) 10:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Rugby league articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Rugby league articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:33, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

More Youndbuckerz RL players

Following my post above about Youndbuckerz (talk · contribs)'s Wikipedia:Permastub's on US RL players, I have identified a number of others, none of them appear to pass the WP:GNG. I plan to take them to AfD but, as before, would like input from here first.

Siose Muliumu (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Luke Hume (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Curtis Cunz (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nick Isbrandtsen (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Keikeokalani Misipeka (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nate Smith (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Michael Cartwright (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mike Brazill (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Gene Giallombardo (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
John Grace (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Bob Knoepfel (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Kea Misipeka (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Taco Pope (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ewan Robinson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Derrick Roma (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Louis Tulio (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Clark (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Lance Gaines (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Joe Bascelli (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Brad Kielinski (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Andrew Tully (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Akarika Dawn (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Brent Shorten (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nathan Debartolo (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Astill (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Roy Leoni (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Andrew Hull (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Zack Padgett (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Phil Sipos (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Conway Maraki (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
David Faimanifo (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Vea Ofa (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Brian Warren (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mo Tuifua (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Marlon Steele (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ryan McGough (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
David Bowe (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Keith Cassidy (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jamie Lester (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Enoch Walmawa (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Tyer Allen (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Troy Browser (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Eric Gibben (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Henry Miers (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dave Burton (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Cameron Grace (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dale Fitzgerald (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Josh In (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Robin Legault (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Adam Moody (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Najeeb Obaidi (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Matt Wyles (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Sam Fuimaono (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Patrick Farrell (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Chris Diamond (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Scott Rigmond (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Shane Farrell (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Nolan Ott (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Will Sorenson (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Danny Tapou (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jesse Walker (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ben White (rugby league) (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jay Quarmby (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Dylan Burt (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Rafal Kakzmarck (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)

Thanks for your help. Codf1977 (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

A lot of them may survive if the 2009 Atlantic Cup or Colonial Cup (rugby league) are deemed notable. Bizarrely I have some sourced information on Roy Leoni from when he was a teenager playing for Otago in the mid-90's but I don't think thats enough to make him notable. If he survives I'll add it. Mattlore (talk) 06:07, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Don't agree that is the case as notability is not inherited, from what I can see none of the above meet the WP:GNG. Codf1977 (talk) 06:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
They seem to quite clearly fail the new NSPORT guidelines (which, may I add, are very good). As I've said before in relation to these - it is all very well to create these articles, but who will look after them until the end of time? --Mkativerata (talk) 07:20, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

All or if not most of them are US/Canadian internationals. They have represented their counrties so they should be notable. If you keep deleting my pages i will not bother to improve rugby league pages on wikipedia anymoreYB 07:58, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

No one is automatically notable, being a US/Canadian international in a sport that is very minor in those countries is no indication of being notable, they have not revived anything like significant coverage to pass WP:GNG. Codf1977 (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Another: Sean Taylor (rugby league) Mattlore (talk) 05:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Any more comments before I take them to AfD ? Codf1977 (talk) 17:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Have nominated them at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tyer Allen Codf1977 (talk) 08:29, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

McIntyre Final Eight Template

So, I got a little bored tonight; Template:8McIntyre and Template:2010 NRL Finals are the results:

  Qualifying Finals Semi Finals Preliminary Finals Grand Final
2        4W                    
7        2L                    
3              2W         
6        3W                  
  Qualifying Finals Semi Finals Preliminary Finals Grand Final
1  St George Illawarra 28
8  Manly-Warringah 0
  1W  St George Illawarra 13  
2  Penrith Panthers 22   4W  Canberra Raiders 24        Wests Tigers 12    
7  Canberra Raiders 24   2L  Wests Tigers 26            St George Illawarra 32
         Sydney Roosters 8
3  Wests Tigers 15         2W  Gold Coast Titans 6    
6  Sydney Roosters 19   3W  Sydney Roosters 34        Sydney Roosters 32  
  1L  Penrith Panthers 12  
4  Gold Coast Titans 28
5  NZ Warriors 16

Any suggestions and comments? Mattlore (talk) 10:03, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Nice one.-Sticks66 13:55, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

One question, why has 1W carried with the Dragons to the Grand Final and not 3W with the Roosters? --sss333 (talk) 00:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Because the editor who updated the template had put in the "seeding" for the Dragons and not the Roosters. I have removed the Dragons one because that is my preference but if you want you can put them both in so they both have their seedings. Hopefully it is straight forward to edit but if you want any assistance just ask. Mattlore (talk) 01:37, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

2011 squads

as the 2011 season draws closer i will start editing 2011 squads and want to know if u20's players should be listed there even if they have * marked next to them and a note saying *= players eligible for toyota cup just want to know everyones opinion on it firstYB 04:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I think only the 25 man senior squad should be included. Most Toyota cup players aren't notable until they play a FG game anyway. Mattlore (talk) 04:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Telstra Premiership squad only on teams' main articles. Toyota Cup squads for teams' season articles only.--Jeff79 (talk) 08:29, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The reason for them being included is alot of the U20's players do go one to play FG and SHOULD be included lets say the Broncos every year during origin alot of there players are playing origin or injured then they start to user there u20s thats just my view of itYB 07:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC) My view on this is that no squads should be updated until the NRL sites officially come out with their team squads. For example, on the Knights website they have a 32-man FG squad. I will not update the Knights squad on it's wikipedia article until the Knights site officially names the 2011 FG squad which will not be until November. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 04:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Mass AfD v3

Inspired by Codf1977's efforts I think the following should be taken to AfD, thoughts? :

Radoslav Novaković (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Roman Igorevich Ovchinnikov (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ivan Pacho (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Cory Simms (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Thomas Giatsos (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views) (if not prod'd)
Adam Kambouris (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Kosta Kouparitsas (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Leo Berngruber (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Josh Madeley (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Tom Kimble (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Marc Simon (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Shunsuke Tamura (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Benedict Pender (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Yasunori Oshima (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Masanori Kazaoka (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Hirofumi Kita (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Ryo Kondo (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Mitsutaka Inuoe (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Masamichi Itagaki (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Hiroshi Miyazaki (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Narihisa Ushida (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Jin Iguchi (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)
Kazunori Ijuin (edit|talk|history|protect|delete|links|watch|logs|views)

Cheers, Mattlore (talk) 05:40, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Agree looks like there are issues with all of them, interestingly Radoslav Novaković meets the WP:NSPORTS#Rugby league criteria, however if you do a Find sources: "Radoslav Novaković" – books · scholar · JSTOR · free images you don't get much on him from independent and reliable sources (except for this) so he may not meet the WP:GNG, if consensus is AfD, would suggest that he is listed on his own. It was my intention to go through members of Category:Canadian rugby league footballers today, and PROD those who did not meet WP:NSPORTS#Rugby league but given this will hold off. Codf1977 (talk) 07:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Ah, obviously I missed it - how does Radoslav meet the Notability guidelines? Mattlore (talk) 19:56, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
He meets WP:NSPORTS#Rugby league as Serbia are an associate members of the RLEF, however they are only a guide to who may meet the WP:GNG and I for one don't think he does pass WP:GNG. Codf1977 (talk) 20:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

All Japanese ones can be deleted.YB 07:52, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

St George Dragons v St George Illawarra Dragons

I need help with this idiot on this issue. Can someone weigh-in with some logic before I get into an edit war & more name-calling.-Sticks66 02:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Good luck with that!Doctorhawkes (talk) 05:01, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I've issued some 3RR warnings. I'm hesitant to protect the page though as there's a fair bit of editing traffic from constructive contributors. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Son Fry

I'm not sure what to make of this Mr. Son Fry, the elderly gentleman pictured in this article on the right. Apparently he was one of the first people to play for Australia, but I can't find mention of him anywhere else. Does anyone have the resources to get to the bottom of this?--Jeff79 (talk) 07:00, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

[1] "The first game was also notable for a Queensland tackle which rendered one NSW player, Ed "Son" Fry, completely naked from the waist down an event which did not stop him from scoring a try." Mattlore (talk) 07:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
[2] "This bell was used at the first game of Rugby League between Souths and Easts at Birchgrove in 1908. The game was won by Souths 15-12 and the timekeeper was Son Fry." Mattlore (talk) 07:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Ok. It looks like he might have been part of the first New South Wales team rather than a Kangaroos player [3]. He might actually be this person. Or, more likely, this person.--Jeff79 (talk) 07:23, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Ed Fry is Son Fry. A RU rebel, yes he played for NSW against the All Golds, then nine games for Souths in 1908 and one games for Norths in 1910. He continued to be involved with Souths til 1968. So he's your man in the SMH pic. I'll start an article and maybe you can drop in the stuff about him losing his shirt & daks ! Fred Fry is probably W. Fry 5 games for Easts in 1908 then 21 games with Souths between 1909 and 1911. -Sticks66 10:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Reckon I've padded Ed Fry out about as much as I can. Now Jeff, what do you reckon about cropping that SMH photo and getting it in there ? Problem is I suppose it was taken post 1955 ? -Sticks66 11:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Sticks. Yeah, the photo is too new to use I think. Also, I was just wondering why you don't like to use the Template:rugby league biography infobox.--Jeff79 (talk) 03:26, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I just grabbed the Infobox off another pioneer article Alex Burdon thinking that I was going to have both RU and RL detail to fill in. But then I couldn't find anything on Fry's RU history. But I suppose the Template you refer to also has space for RU portions of a players career ? Rgds -08:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah. The RL one pretty much rules.--Jeff79 (talk) 09:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

RFC Talk:Football#RFC:_Association_football

The question being ask is Should football be WP:DAB'd for all codes when the code is first mentioned in the intro? Gnevin (talk) 09:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Supported by the Project ?

Whether or not this latest batch of articles on players with questionable notability Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeff Preston is deleted will of course be decided under Notability guidelines. But I note that each one has one of those "this article is supported by the Rugby League Project" tags . Well they aren't as far as I'm concerned. Can I get consensus to remove the project tags ?-Sticks66 11:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree Doctorhawkes (talk) 12:55, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't support this proposal. The banner is useful and appropriate; it should not be removed. The project banner allows editors to sort and keep track of all rugby league content through the article importance and quality categories. The banner allows all editors to keep track of events on rugby league all articles, files, categories and templates. You may not like the phrase but the rugby league project does provide support for these and other articles. The support may be in for form of the resources that members have gathered, providing advice etcetera. The banner also states that the project aims to improve articles. As you say, the notability of these articles will be assessed - the same as every other article. LunarLander // talk // 15:59, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
LL is right. "This article is supported by..." doesn't mean "The project wants to keep as an article..." although it does sound like it. Project-tagging is a sorting mechanism more than anything. --Mkativerata (talk) 16:18, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree with both sides ... it strikes me as a bit odd that this project uses "article is supported by" when most (if not all others) use the phrase "within the scope" - maybe the solution here is to change banner ? Codf1977 (talk) 16:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Oh right if it's just wording of this project's banner rather than generic cross-project wording lets change it. --Mkativerata (talk) 16:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Have been a bit WP:BOLD and changed the wording - see {{WikiProject Rugby league}} to bring it in line with others and use the phrase "within the scope" in place of "is supported by" - if anyone want's more time to discuss then please revert. Codf1977 (talk) 12:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Very good and well-done Codf, I guess that'll have to do. Though goodness knows what we can do to improve the status of ones like Mike Wylie - the gold standard in being "barely notable" ! -Sticks66 12:55, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Heh, that sounds like a challenge! :) Mattlore (talk) 19:25, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Pic of a painting

Can anyone guide me to where I'll find the correct usage right assertion I need make when adding a picture of a painting ? Does the pre-1955 public domain still apply or is it relaxed since it's a painting (it's a photo of a 1964 portrait I want to upload) -Sticks66 12:38, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Will probably depend on where the photograph of the painting was taken and who is the owner of the painting. Starting point for looking into this Wikipedia:Image use policy.--Traveler100 (talk) 13:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Things that could be done

Sorry i haven't been editing much this month (my computer is running slow it will be fast at the end of this month) i just want to point out a few things that could be done getting the top try/point scorers etc on the 2010 European Cup page as well as crowd attendances etc. average crowd.... getting squad boxes on national team pages i think someone has messed up the england one also could someone created some pages on PNG players as they are notable enough because they are playing in the 4 nations. I will help out where i can but as i said my computer is running slow but i will be back next month but if someone could do those for me that would be great. ThanksYoundbuckerz 08:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

NRL top scorers

At Template_talk:National_Rugby_League_top_try_scorers#2010 is a discussion about what we on Wikipedia mean exactly by "top try-scorer" (and I suppose, this extends to top point-scorer as well). Please comment there.--Jeff79 (talk) 03:51, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Article reviewers

Just thought I'd put my name down for reviewing articles, since the current ones seem to be temporarily inactive, so just give us a bell if you need me, I'll do my best. Also, I've contacted Ginger Warrior about reviewing St Helens RLFC, but obviously since he's temporarily inactive, is there anyone else that could do it?


Ymron (talk) 16:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

This topic isn't covered

Sports-related outlines currently under development include:

But there is no Outline of rugby.

Can you beat the other Sports WikiProjects to completion?

To create an outline on rugby, click on the redlink above and add this line:


Then press Save page and start adding relevant subheadings and links.

For the whole set of outlines on Wikipedia, see Portal:Contents/Outlines.

Here are some examples of developed outlines:

The Transhumanist 00:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the point of these articles, they seem to just restate what is on the main page. In any case, there is no sport called "rugby" but two different sports called rugby league and rugby union.GordyB (talk) 12:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it's exactly like clicking the 'simple english' language link over on the left.--Jeff79 (talk) 18:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
The Transhumanist is a big fan of "Outlines" Many other people cannot see the point. It's interesting that he has now started selling them door-to-door.  pablo 20:43, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
This topic is covered. We have one here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Outline_of_Knowledge/Drafts/Outline_of_rugby_league. LunarLander // talk // 21:32, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

2011 Squads injury/captain icons

I think these things would better suit the teams 2011 season article because there are many injury/captain changes throughout the season so i believe it would better suit the 2011 season articleYoundbuckerz 21:48, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd agree. The main article squad list should not include injuries etc - maybe an icon for club captain would be appropriate, as that shouldn't change through the season. Otherwise it belongs on the 2011 season page. Mattlore (talk) 07:02, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Austria national rugby league team

Hello, my friends: A group of us are working on clearing the backlog at The article in the above header has been without sources for the past four years and may be removed if none are added. I wonder if you can help do so. Sincerely, and all the best to you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:19, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done LunarLander // talk // 20:55, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Sam Tomkins

Somebody keeps changing the brithplace and personal details of sam tomkins can somebody who would know more on him please fix it upYoundbuckerz 10:29, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Notability of rugby league players

I just want to change the notability of rugby league players so that notable players could come from any of the top 20 ranked countries by the RLIF as well as keeping the current rules below. How do I go about getting the notability for rugby league changed? Here is the current rules:

A player, coach, or referee of rugby league football is presumed notable if they:

  1. Have appeared in at least one competitive international match between Full members of the RLIF and/or Full or Associate Members of the RLEF (see Notes 1 & 2), or
  2. Have appeared in at least one match at a Rugby League World Cup tournament, or
  3. Have have appeared in at least one match of a fully professional domestic Rugby league competition:

Other players and personalities surrounding the game are notable if they meet WP:GNG.

Note 1: Current full members of the RLIF are : Australia, Cook Islands, England, Fiji, France, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Russia, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga and Wales[4] plus Great Britain for historical reasons.
Note 2: All current full members of the RLEF are also full members of the RLIF. Current associate members of the RLEF are : Italy, Jamaica, Lebanon, Russia and Scotland.[5]
Note 3: or their earlier iterations in the UK, Australia or New Zealand.

Youndbuckerz 08:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are suggesting expanding the provision to include. Are you saying that anyone who has played for the next seven teams countries (after the thirteen in note 1) is notable ? And are those seven countries the five named in note 2 ? And are there two additional countries (& which are they ?). And (by-the-by) what is the note saying about Russia - is it a full member or an associate member ? -Sticks66 11:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
As far as I know, Russia has just been downgraded by the RLEF to associate but their full RLIF membership remains unchanged at the moment. LunarLander // talk // 18:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
YB, make a proposal and we can debate that. I think your concerns might already be met by "Other players and personalities surrounding the game are notable if they meet WP:GNG." Mattlore (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're talking notability, we should incorporate the Asia-Pacific Rugby League Federation into this with the same status as the RLEF. LunarLander // talk // 18:35, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

What i am saying is to change the notability guidelines so that any player from the top 20 ranked countries by the rlif can meet notability guidelines so i can create players from USA, Jamaica etc.(any of the top 20 ranked countries).Youndbuckerz 05:29, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

But why, do we really need more articles that say no more than that "Joe Smith played a representative game of rugby league for Jamaica in 20xx". Call me old-fashioned (and I know our notability guidelines are much looser than I'm suggesting) but in my humble opinion we should only support articles where there is some kind of interesting tale to be told about the player, his life and his achievements over the course of a career .-Sticks66 11:42, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
YB, I've prod'd the articles you've created for the US team - you know they don't currently meet the notability criteria - so why create them? With the current criteria, why do we include associate members of the RLEF and not associate members of the RLIF??? I'd say neither should be recognised as full internationals. Just playing in one of those games should not mean you have a wiki page about you. (unless you've done something else notable) Mattlore (talk) 00:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I see YB has changed Wikipedia:Notability (sports) without discussion (someone please correct me if I am wrong). I will change it back to how it was. Mattlore (talk) 04:24, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

As much as I admire YB's enthusiasm, I can't imagine that the suggested changes to notability would be helpful much. I predict that it would result in a number of pages that would rarely be viewed. It seems to me that a bundle of acknowledged notable players are lacking a decent bio, also. Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. I would be in favour of tightening the eligibility requirements to "1. Have appeared in at least one competitive international match between Full members of the RLIF, or". That way international players for lesser teams are only inherently notable if they have played professionally or in a RLWC match - they might still be notable if they have another achievement. Mattlore (talk) 23:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
We spent quite a long time going through the guidelines and finalised them only two months ago. They are in line with other sports on WP. Do you, and YB, mind if we leave it a while to see how it goes before we discuss an overhaul? LunarLander // talk // 23:25, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Oh that's completely fine with me - you were the one who suggested incorporating the Asia-Pacific Rugby League Federation into the guidelines :) Mattlore (talk) 23:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. You've got me there. I haven't been able to find an official list but the stated APRLF membership of 7 suggests it's comprised of the 7 current full RLIF members from the southern hemisphere so adding it shouldn't make a difference. That being that case, it's not urgent, it would just cross the t. LunarLander // talk // 00:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Categorising State players

I have created a Category:New South Wales rugby league team players as this category fits the conventions, being named the same as the article New South Wales rugby league team. However there is also a category Category:New South Wales Rugby League State of Origin players. For now I have just populated the new category with pre-1980 players and put it as a parent category of the old one. My question is, should this status quo continue (pre/post origin divide) or should we merge the two into one category? Mattlore (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

  • NB: The same changes have been made to Queensland.
  • NB: The same changes should probably also be made to coaches, but haven't yet.
I'm happy with the status quo.--Jeff79 (talk) 04:51, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm leaning towards thinking everyone who has represented the state should be in the new category. The SoO category could be maintained for Origin players only, perhaps.
State of Origin has become a big brand. Is it actually separate or a continuation? The competition and teams are all branded 'State of Origin' but it was created by a (major) change in eligibility rules. I think it might be the That's Rugby League DVD that describes the 1980 NSW v Qld matches as being the same but played under different rules. Dally M is categorised as a New Zealand player and he was just invited along for the tour but that team is still considered to be New Zealand rather than an Australasian All Star team. LunarLander // talk // 15:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Anyone who represented a state regardless of selection rules could be in "[State] rugby league team players" but only those who were selected to play under state of origin rules should be in "[State] Rugby League State of Origin players". Therefore Kerry Boustead would go into "Queensland rugby league team players", "New South Wales rugby league team players" and "Queensland Rugby League State of Origin players". Do be aware though that not everyone who played in the six games of 1980 and 1981 will necessarily be in "[State] Rugby League State of Origin players" as only two of those six were played under state of origin selection rules. Care should be taken to determine which game/s exactly they played in those years.--Jeff79 (talk) 20:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

List of City, Country Origin players?

Hey everyone, i was just wondering if anyone thought these would be useful. I mean i've got the lists of players all in order of their debuts for City & Country ready but i don't have the time or motivation to do lists in the same format as the List of New South Wales rugby league team players and List of Queensland rugby league team players. Does anyone have the time or energy? Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 04:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Great Josh! Stick them and the source on the talk page of the team article or somewhere and I'm sure someone will get around to it. LunarLander // talk // 08:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

2011 Legends of Origin charity match

Hey guys, I have started the article 2011 Legends of Origin charity match which was played Thursday 27 January 2011 ast Parramatta Stadium. It would be geat if you help expand it. Cheers -- Ianblair23 (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Top stuff. Would you believe 2010 ANZAC Test got nommed for deletion so lets hope this one doesn't go through the same. I'll have a good look at the article tomorrow morning if you like. --Mkativerata (talk) 04:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
That would be great. Thanks. -- Ianblair23 (talk) 05:37, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Looks great. Doctorhawkes (talk) 05:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Article alerts

Seems to be up and running again here. It's on the nav bar at the top of the page too. LunarLander // talk // 23:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Chris Ashton

Just dropped by from the RU project to ask for a bit of guidance. I've just marked Chris Ashton as a dual-code international on the basis of his appearances in the Federation Shield in 2006, but I'm not totally sure if that makes him a full England RL international - were the Federation Shield games regarded as full England games? I'd be more than grateful if someone with a bit more understanding can give me a steer on this. Thanks. --Bcp67 (talk) 09:59, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The Rugby Football League's website lists him as having 4 caps for England.--Jeff79 (talk) 08:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll leave the article as it stands.--Bcp67 (talk) 19:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of National Rugby League Grand Final records

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article List of National Rugby League Grand Final records has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

100% original research that will never be able to be referenced.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeff79 (talk) 09:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Dispute resolution: Ricky Tomlinson

An edit war is on the verge of breaking out on St Helens RLFC. I'm in need of some help here and here. Many thanks GW(talk) 22:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Little gold mine of player images

I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but this album on Picasa Web Albums contains literally thousands of photos on rugby league players. Mostly, the pictures are of French players in the Elite Championship (particularly Limoux), but there also photos of the 2010 Magic Weekend in Edinburgh, Super League teams at the Catalans Dragons' Stade Gilbert Brutus, and the Kangaroo and Kiwi sides who played in France during the 2009 Four Nations. The publisher has tagged them all with CC-BY-SA reuse icons, so we can reuse them here freely. Photos from the Wakefield game only a few days ago are already up, including some mind-boggling half-time gymnastics, so those interested in maintaining this year's club season articles should pop by following their team's visit to the south of France. GW(talk) 13:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Excellent. Can you direct me to a shot already successfully uploaded to WP which contains a wording appropriate for the use rationale ? -Sticks66 02:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I kind of stumbled upon the album after discovering Stefan Marsh had his own picture, approved by an administrator on Commons. I hope that will help, it's been a while since I dealt with fair use. GW(talk) 02:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Player agents

I have created a category for Category:Rugby league player agents. Please help populate it if you know of any others that have wikipedia pages, most that do will be ex-players. Mattlore (talk) 21:46, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think player agents themselves (without being a ex-player) would be notable enough for an article. But a good category for those who are.  The Windler talk  00:25, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, perhaps I should have said "All that do will be ex-players or coaches". Mattlore (talk) 01:51, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Some agents, such as Khoder Nasser or Sam Ayoub, feature in the media far more than most ex-players. Whether they played or not shouldn't be the sole deciding factor.--Jeff79 (talk) 03:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Video game articles up for deletion

Three rugby league video game articles are up for deletion. See the list here:

The rugby league Article Alerts page is a link on the banner at the top of this page, for those who want to keep track of nominations for deletion and other processes. LunarLander // talk // 22:28, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

League infobox

Howdy! I wanted to enquire, is there any policy on what to put in the infobox for a player who joins a club but fails to make a first grade appearance? For instance, Josh Lewis or Arana Taumata. Should the club not be mentioned, or listed and just have zero for the stats? Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league/Manual of style/Biography infobox doesn't seem clear. Doctorhawkes (talk) 11:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, no clear guidelines as far as I am aware. Could depend on the situation - eg was he in the first grade squad or just a NSW Cup or youth player etc? Mattlore (talk) 19:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I think leave them out. The infobox is used for playing stats, rather than as an employment record. Also, there could be hundreds of instances of players who didn't make a first team appearance at one club before leaving for another and we would be lacking in sources. If there is anything worth noting about their time with the club, it can be mentioned elsewhere in the article. There would also be consequences or inconsistencies for how rep team details are recorded. LunarLander // talk // 19:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, leave them out. It should definitely be in the article however. If the player is currently playing for the team but hasn't played any matches, then perhaps you could have the 0, 0, 0, 0 stats.  The Windler talk  21:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
If he made no appearances then I too would agree that we leave them out of the Infobox but I would point out that: 1) when a player is selected to represent, makes a tour squad but does not play in a Test then we show it in the info-box but show zero matches (see Steve Knight, Charles McMurtie,Peter Burge and Bob Stuart). So if we have protocol that a national appearance gets you in the national team for the info-box but only a Test match gets you a match stat; then perhaps the same should apply for club games ?? Just a thought. And 2) there are many notable old-timers who made first-class appearances for country teams and we have no stats on that portion of their career and probably never will have. (See Billy Wilson & Eric Weissel That doesn't stop us listing that stint in the info-box, though of course that's somewhat different to the situation at hand. -Sticks66 12:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. There's a precedent that rep teams shouldn't sit alone in infoboxes without corresponding clubs to be chosen from. However I'm not fussed if there's no rep team in the first place. Begs the question though: if there are no matches for top-flight club and no matches for a rep team, why is there an article?--Jeff79 (talk) 07:45, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
If it helps the discussion, precedent articles from WP:FOOTY don't seem to mind having zeros in the infobox. I think it makes sense for the infobo to show the player was contractually signed to the club, although they made no appearance. It reflects the situation better than having no mention at all. GW(talk) 02:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks GW. The non-appearance for Man U seems to be shown because appearances have been made for another club while on loan. If the player had transferred, rather than gone there on loan, would the zeros for Man U be included? LunarLander // talk // 03:48, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I wouldn't know, really. What I do know is that former GAs have got away with having "Youth Career" bits in the infobox despite not listing appearances there. The guidelines I've always made up in my head is that if a player doesn't make a first-team appearance, it shouldn't be listed in the infobox, but on reflection I think this is wrong, because with the infobox technically being part of the lead: "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article." It doesn't make sense that the main article should contain details on the fact they signed for a club, and then for the intro not to mention it, even if they failed to make an appearance. Far more accurate would be to say, for example Phil Bailey, that he was at Salford City for 2011, but had zero appearances, and the main body of the article to explain why this was the case. GW(talk) 12:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm left thinking about the movement of players early in their careers. I still have concerns over the availability of sources that will allow us to display information consistently. There is also the consideration of effort vs value in finding and adding this extra pre-appearance information. UK clubs are able to contract and register U16 (Year 11) players. Every year some young players will be told by the club that the club doesn't think they can go further. They might move to the academy scheme of another club, it might happen more than once. They have the possibility of making first team appearances during this time, but I don't think 0 0 0 0 0 should be listed for each.
I'm not convinced that a non-appearance for a club is something that should be in a concise overview. If Phil Bailey signed for Salford but suffered an injury before Christmas in pre-season training and decided to retire, would it be included? Another one: I seem to remember a case in the last few years when some player(s) were shifted around between clubs. For some reason, it required a player to register with a third club for a few hours before they were transferred to the one they were going to play for. LunarLander // talk // 19:02, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I can see the points the other way too. I can imagine certain things being omitted feeling a bit odd, but I think what I've argued for is less messy. LunarLander // talk // 19:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
We could all trade hypothetical circumstances, and contradict each other to no end without achieving anything. There's been cases of football managers being sacked for gross misconduct before their first match too. These cases are so rare and relatively complex it's probably best to use individual descretion than trying to make very general guidelines for a diverse range of circumstances. I'm sure if any such articles made it to GAN, the reviewer, usually coming from a non-sports background, would make their opinion known, so it's not like a concrete decision has to be made anyway. GW(talk) 19:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

While we are on a similar subject I thought I'd raise this issue. When we have incomplete records for a player (eg we know he played for a certain team in 1986, 1987 and 1989 but no idea about 1985, 1988 and 1990) what do you think the best approach for recording the team in the infobox is? Obviously add the team in there, but for the years should we have a) 1986-1989, b) leave them blank, c) 198?-19?? Or d) some other option. Mattlore (talk) 02:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

In that example of a missing year in the middle, I'd probably go with b, maybe c, definitely not a. LunarLander // talk // 19:44, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I have seen ≤ and ≥ used before when the exact start and end years aren't known. LunarLander // talk // 19:55, 30 March 2011 (UTC)