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January 26[edit]

Google doodle for 26 Jan 2015[edit]

Hi all,
Is this - a picture of kids building sand-castles, with Australian flags (though they could be New Zealand flags. Don't. Get. Me. Started. &c) on them (flags on the sand-castles, not on the kids, that is) - coming up in other parts of the word? Just curious.
Pete AU --Shirt58 (talk) 01:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Eastern U.S. here. It's still the 25th here, so we won't see ours for another three hours. Right now I just got the standard Google text image. No doodle. Dismas|(talk) 01:59, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If you hover over the image, it will show Australia Day 2015. --  Gadget850 talk 02:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
And that would be why instead of being at work, I'm being a mamil. Face-smile.svg "Hi, I'm Peter in AU! You might remember me from such Wikipedia articles as 'Ego Leonard', 'Hevisaurus', 'Mutant Giant Spider Dog' and '" --Shirt58 (talk) 02:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
@Gadget850: I don't know why you're replying to my comment. My normal Google text doesn't say anything when I hover over it. Dismas|(talk) 03:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

For what it's worth, those are clearly Australian and not NZ flags; the NZ flag doesn't have the larger white star under the canton. -- (talk) 03:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

And the Southern Cross on the NZ flag has only four stars, and they are red outlined with white, but both flags are otherwise identical and include the %#$&ing flag of some country on the other side of the world on the upper hoist... I'm getting the red mist...--Shirt58 (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Now, now, Peter, remember what your personal brain care specialist says to do in situations like this: think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts; though the 2015 tri-series match for today got washed out, there will be plenty more at the 2015 Cricket World Cup. --Shirt58 (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
It's the 26th in the U.S. now and we still just get the regular Google text sans doodle. Dismas|(talk) 09:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Many Google Doodles are country specific. The link in question is which is the Australia TLD. --  Gadget850 talk 09:10, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I realize that. The way I understood the question was that the OP was asking if other parts of the world were getting a doodle related to Australia Day as well or if they were being served something else. Dismas|(talk) 09:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh. I didn't know that the doodles are Tldn-specific. That would explain why the 26 Jan 2015 doodle for is about Republic Day (India). Are there any times when they are world-wide or at least non-country specific? I know for a fact that the 24 November 2014 Toulouse-Lautrec one wasn't limited to la France.--Shirt58 (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Google Doodle#See also has links to several lists which show the countries. --  Gadget850 talk 10:25, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken, things like Earth Day generally have the same doodle around the world. Dismas|(talk) 17:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you everyone who participated in this discussion. I've learned a lot. I've got multiple and complexity-explaining answers to what I mistakenly thought was a simple question. Like the citizens of "Sniddler's Gulch" in the Sesame Street animation, I'll live happy ever after, because I'm really not that smart. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 10:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Word Count in Powerpoint[edit]

How do I get a word count/character count for a selection of slides (e.g. 10 slides) from a Powerpoint file with many more slides (e.g. 89 slides). I would like the word count/character count for that selection only. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 13:30, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Is this a feature that used to exist? In Office 2013 the best I can recommend is change the view to "outline view" then copy past that into word. Fractal618 (talk) 15:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Can't sync to itunes u[edit]

Hi all, I'm using a new ipod with an old laptop, and I've downloaded an itunes u course on the Chinese language. I've only downloaded the first two lessons, but when I sync, they don't come up. I've checked, and the computer thinks the lessons really are on the ipod, but nothing actually shows up on the device (it won't even register that the itunes u course exists on my ipod). Most of the courses do show up, so itunes u is basically working on the device, up to a point, but this course (and one other) just doesn't show up. IBE (talk) 13:49, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Further .NET database question[edit]

Continuing about my work project. It turns out this syntax doesn't work with Oracle:

  • INSERT INTO mytable (mycolumn) values (1), (2)

However, this does:

  • INSERT INTO mytable (mycolumn) SELECT a FROM (SELECT 1 AS a FROM dual UNION ALL SELECT 2 AS a FROM dual)

Now, I have two questions:

  1. One of the columns is a unique identifier number and gets its value from a sequence. For some mysterious reason, using the sequence with its nextval operator in the INSERT INTO statement causes a rollback, which then throws an InvalidOperationException if I start a transaction within the connection. If I don't use a transaction, the insert works OK. It also works OK in a transaction if I don't use a sequence, but that is not an option. What could be causing this?
  2. In case the estimation fails (for example, the estimated time doesn't fit into a DateTime object) I return null from the estimation. But I can't store this null value among the other date values in the table with UNION ALL. I get a database error: ORA-01790: expression must have same datatype as corresponding expression. Apparently Oracle thinks null values aren't compatible with date values. Is there any way to solve this, or will I have to resort to using DateTime.MinValue or DateTime.MaxValue instead?

JIP | Talk 19:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

You are correct in that Oracle does not allow you to separate multiple rows with a comma. You can run a series of insert into commands or you can insert into with a bunch of unioned select from dual queries. Both problems you have should be solved by using a series of insert into...values...; commands. You will use the nextval only once per insert. Further, you won't be trying to get a distinct set of values with nulls (in case you don't know, union implies distinct). — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Does union imply distinct across all columns, or for each one separately? If I were to do this:
  • INSERT INTO mytable (mycolumna, mycolumnb) SELECT a, b FROM (SELECT 1 AS a, NULL AS b FROM dual UNION ALL SELECT 2 AS a, NULL AS b FROM dual)
would it insert one or two rows? JIP | Talk 18:01, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
A union spits out distinct rows. So, your select would produce {1,null},{2,null}. (talk) 19:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Fedora 20 Cinnamon GUI hangs with every file operation[edit]

I'm using Fedora 20 Linux with Cinnamon. My computer has been up for three weeks already and Cinnamon is taking up 5 gigabytes of the computer's 12 gigabytes of memory. The computer and its operating system work otherwise OK, but whenever I execute any file operation whatsoever from the GUI that modifies the file system in any way, the whole GUI just hangs for about 15-20 seconds, and then resumes working as normal. I can move the mouse as normal, and its pointer responds to elements, changing shape as necessary. But I can't click on anything or type anything. Clicks and keypresses are recognised, but the system doesn't react to them until 15-20 seconds afterwards.

I actually even played Lazy Jones on VICE, and when I took a screenshot, the GUI hung for 15-20 seconds. But the game didn't hang - it kept on running, thinking I hadn't moved Jones at all. I can tell because the cleaning cart collided with Jones, killing him, and I heard the distinctive sound effect.

What could be causing this? Is it just the Cinnamon process having been running for too long and consuming too much memory? JIP | Talk 20:04, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a classic memory leak. That's where a program allocates a chunk of memory for each operation, but never bothers to free it up again, consuming more and more memory until the computer becomes unusable. A reboot is the usual "cure", although the problem will recur and require reboots again and again. StuRat (talk) 06:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
If you want to diagnose this (short of calling it a "bug" and rebooting), you'll need to collect more information. What does top tell you? Can you switch to console mode on the local machine (usually Ctrl+Alt+F2, or similar)? Is the system responsive in console? Can you see anything in system log? Stack shots? Does it reproduce on other machines?
What you have right now is a symptom, but not nearly enough information for a bug report or a diagnosis. Unless this is a really common bug, it's not likely we can identify its root-cause by symptom alone. Do you need help finding a troubleshooting guide? GUI problems are probably best diagnosed following the Fedora troubleshooting procedure - but from what you've told us so far, we can't yet confidently even narrow this down to an issue.
Nimur (talk) 12:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
top reports cinnamon right at the top (pun intended), consuming only 0.7% of CPU power but 48.3% of memory. Other processes top temporarily reports at the top are firefox and top itself, but cinnamon stays there most of the time. The system is completely responsive in console mode. I can even run file operations from the command line via a terminal emulator when using the GUI, and the system remains responsive. But whenever I save a file from FireFox or GIMP, for example, the system briefly hangs, then resumes. I don't have access to any other computers running Fedora. JIP | Talk 17:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Sounds to me like a filesystem failure. Usually, these types of things happen with network filesystems. Look in /etc/fstab. Do you have any network systems in there? Run "mount". Does it list any network systems mounted? (talk) 19:08, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
No, I don't think I am using any network file systems. JIP | Talk 19:15, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yea, you seem to have some pretty good evidence that a memory leak is the problem. I suggest you try a different Desktop Environment program, which hopefully manages memory better. StuRat (talk) 21:50, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
...Wow, StuRat... do you have the ability to decipher complicated kernel and graphics-driver resource-leaks at great distance, or does your mousepad just double as your Jump-To-Conclusions mat? We do not have good evidence of anything yet, except a user-visible symptom, which is why JIP should spend a little bit more time collecting information. There is no reason to assume a memory-leak has any relation to the problem, and there is no reason to believe that a process who consumes 48.3% of memory is actively leaking, nor is there a priori any reason to believe this is an unusual or problematic amount of memory for a GUI to consume. In itself, a memory leak does not even explain a UI glitch symptom that JIP described. Recommending that JIP totally migrate to a new software platform is not a good recommendation... he's a sharp guy and already implicitly knew that "replace everything" was an option, but he came here for help with this problem, with this software setup. Nimur (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Loading a new Desktop Environment program is no big deal. He doesn't even have to uninstall Cinnamon. It's not like changing the O/S. StuRat (talk) 16:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
S.M.A.R.T. reports what? --Hans Haase (有问题吗) 22:13, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
How do I use S.M.A.R.T.? JIP | Talk 13:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
If this were Debian, you'd either use GNOME Disks or Smartmontools; I imagine these are available for Fedora too. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 16:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Under Fedora, you can check the S.M.A.R.T. report with the "smartctl" tool, installed with "yum install smartmontools". [1][2][3][4].
I think what Haase is implying is that if you are *lucky*, your hard drive gradually wears out with occasional read errors, and the hard drive goes back and retries the read over and over and (after what seems like a long time) the hard drive eventually gets enough data and correction code bits that it successfully recovers the data. If that's what causing your temporary hangs, it should be obvious from the S.M.A.R.T. "Reallocated Sectors Count", "Current Pending Sector Count", etc. values. --DavidCary (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Trying to replicate this problem with Cinnamon on Fedora 20... I can get a very noticeable delay if I open the file browser pointed to a folder with hundreds of files (e.g. /usr/bin). My /usr/bin has 2513 files in it. If I ls it, I get a response very quickly. If I ls is piped to wc -l, I see the file count almost instantly. If I ls and sort, I almost an instant response. When I open the folder in Cinnamon's file browser, it takes 30-60 seconds to show anything. It is as though it is bubble-sorting the list of files (I know it isn't, but that is what it is like). So... is this something that happens all the time or when you open a folder with a lot of files? (talk) 17:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't even have to open a folder. If I right-click on a picture on FireFox and select "Save image as..." and then save it to disk, FireFox dutifully saves the file, and the whole operating system UI hangs for about 15-20 seconds. Any mouse click I do during that time is recognised, but only acted upon once the UI resumes working. The same happens if I save an image I've been editing in GIMP. I installed Midori from the "Software" administration application, and once I clicked "Install", the whole UI hung for ten minutes (I could tell by looking at the taskbar clock, which had frozen in place while the UI was hung), and then it resumed. However, I can do any file operations I please from the command line (either running in console mode or from the GUI via a terminal emulator) lightning fast as normal. And yes, this has been happening every time for several days now. JIP | Talk 17:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Try to grab a stack dump of Cinnamon while the problem is reproducing. You might need to remotely log in to the machine (e.g. using ssh or serial console) in order to diagnose this type of bug - because, of course, it occurs when the UI is hung. For example:
  1. On the problem-machine, enable ssh logins
  2. On a remote machine, ssh to the problematic unit. Check the Cinnamon pid using pgrep or top.
  3. Reproduce the problem in the GUI.
  4. In your remote ssh session, trigger a stackshot: pstack `pgrep cinnamon` (or similar - I don't know if your distribution has pstack and pgrep - but you can get them).
  5. Save the stackshot to a logfile and submit it as part of your bug report to the cinnamon developers.
One of the amazing things about free software is that you have the source code. You can fix the bug yourself, if you have the time and expertise. One of the terrible things about it is that the developers have very little incentive to track down your problem. (They aren't paid by you to fix your bug). So the more work you do to find out where the problem is, the better chance that this bug can actually be fixed - by you or by the developers.
Nimur (talk) 20:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

January 27[edit]

How do I remove the lines on my screen?[edit]

They've been appearing on my screen since last year. This is a H-P Pavilion dv4-2165dx. This is the phone's capture of the laptop screen having problems. I couldn't take a screenshot because miraculously enough, the strings disappear in that screenshot, so they remind me of vampires not appearing in mirrors. That's why I had to use my phone instead.

Now how do I fix the screen so the lines will be gone once and for all? Thanks. -- (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The fact that they don't show up in a screen shot tells us quite a bit. If the problem was with the output from the graphics card, then they would be in the screen shot. So, you must have a good output from your graphics card, but a hardware issue with the screen, that adds those lines. The good news is that this probably means hooking it up to an external monitor will give you a clear pic. The bad news is that there's no easy way to fix the laptop screen. My suggestion is to use an external screen when you can, and learn to live with the lines the rest of the time, until you are ready to replace the laptop.
Oh, one other thing you could try is different screen resolutions. At some resolutions the problem might be reduced or eliminated. StuRat (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I suppose it's worth trying another resolution, but it won't help if the screen itself is the problem, which it almost certainly is (as you said).
You don't have to replace the laptop to fix the display. You can buy a replacement display and install it yourself. There are a number of them on eBay right now for ~$75 US. -- BenRG (talk) 01:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It might be that the problem is in the connector between the graphics adapter and the screen. I have seen a few similar problems fixed by opening up the laptop and carefully cleaning and re-seating the ribbon cable connector. You could also install a new cable. A quick search for /[your model] + ribbon cable display/ got me to these instructions [5]. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, since that cable is bent every time the laptop is opened or closed, the wires can be damaged or their connections at the end can come loose. However, if either was the case, I would expect the lines to be intermittent, varying as the laptop was opened and closed, but the OP didn't mention that. StuRat (talk) 17:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]

Porting Word for iPad to a PC[edit]

So I got Word for iPad a while back and when I opened it, my iPad started shining and angels starting playing harps and all that good stuff because I found a barebones programme that had everything needed for normal word-processing right at hand in the interface and absolutely no superfluous garbage (I'm sure more than a few people use the more advanced features of Word, but most people I've talked to about it do not). It was almost as if the app had actually been designed with the consumer in mind. So, is there a port of this version of Word for the Windows 7 and 8.1 OSs? If not, is there a way to selectively strip away seldom-used tools in the interface of Word 2010 and 2013 and basically make it look like Word for iPad? Preferably someone who has the app as well so that I don't need to do screenshots of it. Cheers. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 00:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Sign up for OneDrive and get Office Online for free. --  Gadget850 talk 01:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
This is I like. Thank you! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 05:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

How to create another Gmail account?[edit]

Which page do I go for that? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Click on the account icon in the top right. Add account → Add account → Create account. --  Gadget850 talk 17:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Can I emulate a smart phone on my PC ?[edit]

Various companies are now offering free smart phone apps to notify customers of specials, etc. I want those apps, but I don't have a smart phone (my cell phone is quite stupid, in fact). So, can I download those apps on a "smart phone emulator" on my PC ? StuRat (talk) 18:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I have Android installed as a VirtualBox VM,[6] so it might be possible. --  Gadget850 talk 19:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
A little simpler method is to download the Android Software Development Kit (SDK) from . Click on download button, then make sure to select the "full" Android studio package (in the second table), not the "SDK only" package on the first table.
The SDK comes with an emulator that "just works.". Tpkaplan (talk) 04:11, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, thanks, I'll give that a try (it is free, I assume ?). StuRat (talk) 12:14, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

upgrade my upload from 2GB to 20GB on Wikipedia[edit]

How do I go about upgrading my upload max from 2GB to 20GB? Also which is the easiest way of doing this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:04, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Do you mean a wiki that you're running using the MediaWiki software? Check mw:Manual:$wgMaxUploadSize RegistryKey(RegEdit) 23:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Remove or not update Internet Explorer - safe?[edit]

The following questions are based on the fact that I don't use Internet Explorer (in Windows 7).

  1. Any way to stop getting update recommendations for Internet Explorer, or at the very least to be able to decline them once and not be asked again?
  2. In an (unsuccessful) attempt to remove Internet Explorer entirely, I uninstalled its newer version(s) down to Internet Explorer 8. Is it "safe" (-> viruses, etc.) to leave it at that as long as I don't use it? (Would it even be safe to use IE as long as I don't go online?? What if I accidentally launch IE when online, and it starts to load the pages I last visited some years ago... but I stop it after a few seconds, when I realize what's happening - in other words, IE goes online briefly? [Yeah, this last scenario happened yesterday, before I realized the short-cuts were still working...])
  3. How can I deactivate Internet Explorer? In: Programs and Features -> Turn Windows features on or off ... all (!) the checkboxes were already unchecked, yet Internet Explorer (along with some other features) is not deactivated. Ideas?
  4. I wonder if I should remove Internet Explorer completely (well, as far as possible, given that some parts of it will have to remain to keep Windows running). That means I won't update it; I guess, updates won't even be possible with a non-functional Internet Explorer. Is that "safe"? I mean, what happens to security problems in the remaining parts? Thanks! Thanks! Thanks for answering (talk) 22:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Everything I just searched mentions using the Windows Features process you mentioned to remove Internet Explorer. There's also this information here that will hopefully remove the leftovers like you're asking. RegistryKey(RegEdit) 23:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I seem to recall a time when you had to keep IE around for certain important things like Windows Update (or something). I believe that time is past. I also believe that MS would today be in anti-trust hot water if they did anything that required IE to the exclusion of its competition. I'd suggest that you be the test case for that, completely wipe out IE, and get back to us on the results. ―Mandruss  01:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Internet Explorer is a system service. Any application can use its HTML widget, and many do. It's no different from, say, the rich edit widget or the file open dialog. So you can't remove it without breaking a ton of software, and if you don't update it you're potentially leaving your system vulnerable. -- BenRG (talk) 01:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
This MS page appears to contradict me and confirm BenRG. Disregard my previous. ―Mandruss  01:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I have used applications that hook into IE to display pages. And just this week I upgraded a router to use DD-WRT and afterwords could not apply any settings since the version of DD-WRT uses SSLv3 which is not longer supported by Firefox, so I have to use IE. Otherwise, IE is pretty good at downloading Firefox. --  Gadget850 talk 12:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, SSLv3 is simply disabled by default. You should be able to re-enable it for use in Firefox. -- (talk) 18:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

Cryptowall 3.0 and system reset[edit]

If a computer running Windows 7 has the great misfortune to get Cryptowall 3.0 and you decide to set it back to the factory image stored on a separate partition, will it erase the virus entirely from your computer or is Cryptowall 3.0 known to worm its way into this partition as well? Apologies if I'm using improper terminology, and no, it's not my computer before anyone decides to start having "small talk" as it were. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 9 Shevat 5775 03:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I have seen some reports that CW may encrypt the recovery partition, but I have not seen that it infects it. --  Gadget850 talk 13:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah all right. I did reset the unfortunate person's computer (which now has significantly better security), so it doesn't look like the partition was encrypted (thankfully). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 9 Shevat 5775 16:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

USB drive ejected from an off computer[edit]

What happens if I shut down my computer without clicking to eject my USB drive, then eject it manually when my computer is off. Is it the same as ejecting while it is on? (talk) 03:26, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

When you say eject it manually, do you mean you physically pull it out? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 9 Shevat 5775 03:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
"Ejecting" is mainly about signalling to the operating system that it needs to actually write data to the USB device, rather than storing it in a write cache - which it does for performance reasons. Shutting down your computer will cause write caches to be written to the device and thus "ejected". And so you're fine to pull the USB device out of the USB socket; the risk of data loss associated with pulling out when the computer is on is completely absent. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
As far as I understand, shutting down your computer will only cause write caches to be written if you select "Shutdown..." from your appropriate start menu or otherwise issue a shutdown command. If you just physically pull the plug, the computer won't get a chance to write the write caches and you may end up with lost data, or even a corrupt filesystem. JIP | Talk 10:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
[OR warning] I've removed USB drives many hundreds of times without "safely removing" or "ejecting", and I've only once had a problem. I don't recommend the practice, especially if the data on the drive is important (mine is always a copy of data held elsewhere). As long as you don't remove the drive whilst it is actually being actively written to, the integrity of the drive is usually maintained. If any of the data on your drive is your only copy, then you would be wise to follow recommended procedures, and, if you have accidentally unplugged it with the computer off, plug it in again before switching on so that the operating system (if it has maintained buffers) can write any remaining date before ejecting. Dbfirs 13:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
When you insert a device like USB flash, Windows sets a dirty bit on the device. If you properly eject it the bit gets reset. If you improperly eject it the bit stays set and is detected when you mount it again and Windows tells you the device may be corrupt and prompts to scan. --  Gadget850 talk 13:17, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Don't modern (post-XP) versions of MS-Windows disable the write cache for removable storage? Therefor it is safe to just pull the drive out without telling Windows that you are about to do it. Coming back to the OP's question, even if the write-cache was enabled, when you shutdown your computer properly, the write cache for all drives, removable or not, will be written. Therefore, it is safe to remove the drive when the computer is powered down. Hibernation and Sleep might be a different case. LongHairedFop (talk) 15:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Here is a good article on this. --  Gadget850 talk 16:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

How to create animation/image sequence with alpha channel?[edit]

I'm trying to create a simple animation with a moving filmstrip, like this one: [7]. I'm trying to keep the animation as simple as possible, so it basicly just consists of two different frames, one like that, and the other shifted so that the vertical bar is in the horizontal middle. Alternating those two at 25fps (using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0) does give me a pretty neat animation already.

Okay, first level of trickery is that it requires an alpha channel, to give me an easily determinable image in the middle. I can do that just fine using Paint Shop Pro, cutting out that center piece in both of my two alternating frames and save each frame as a PSD with an alpha channel. Works just like a charm when loading those two frames into Premiere Pro.

Second level of trickery is that I wanna create a DVD menu out of this animation, where the animated film strip first appears in full size filling the whole image, then have it shrink down and move to the left at the same time. In order to achieve that, I've already created two image files seven times as high as the original two, where I've copy-pasted the original filmstrip image seven times over, so that the result, when shrunk down, will still fill my whole DVD menu from top to bottom. Loading those two higher animation frames into Premiere Pro and have them alternate each other does also work, where at first, most of the vertical image information is outside the frame, until I shrink it down.

But here's the real catch: I wanna try out several different timing and resizing methods, in order to find out which works with my audio, overall menu animation timing, etc. And it's close to impossible to try all those different methods and speeds seamlessly and easy on two tiny alternating frame files, each only a frame long, in my Premiere Pro timeline. What I'd need would be a single animation file with variable length in my timeline, and no matter how long I make it in duration, it's still just those two alternating frames looped, always at the same speed.

Now, you may tell me to just render one animation clip out as an actual video and load that back into Premiere Pro. But the problem is that I'll lose both my alpha channel that way, as well as all image information outside of the frame borders, so I won't be able to shrink my animation.

So, what I need is a way to create a simple looped animation file out of these two frames, complete with an alpha channel and with the animation being at an arbitrary pixel height, that I'll then be able to load into Premiere Pro, where I'll be able to change the clip's duration in my timeline and only change my animation's length, but not its speed. A tiny animation creation program would be best to load my two frames into, because I'm so short on disk space that it shouldn't be bigger than maybe 30MB at absolute max. I guess if I had FinalCut, I could just create a series of nested timelines, but I don't. -- (talk) 05:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Nevermind, I was just too dense. I've solved the whole problem by creating the filmstrip's up-and-down movement in Premiere Pro instead, using keyframes. -- (talk) 06:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Photoshop problem[edit]

Hey guys I’m drawing in photoshop and I don’t know how but no matter what color I choose, the brush paints a certain shade of pink in different intensities, and I can't change image mode because it's greyed out. I tried re-starting the program, even the computer, and so far it's been futile. Does anyone know how I can fix this?--Irrational number (talk) 13:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

One thought is that you might have your PC set to a limited color palette, say 256 colors. That's usually set along with resolution, although only very old PCs would be likely to have a 256 color option. If your PC has already used up the other 255 colors, there might only be one color left. StuRat (talk) 13:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
What happens when you open an existing non-pink image? This thread may be helpful [8]. The first thing I'd try is creating a new monitor profile. Or just bring out the GIMP :) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
What do you see on the title bar? It will show the file name @ <something>. --  Gadget850 talk 17:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Pink paint, sounds to me like you might be inadvertently painting a layer mask? Are you sure you have the correct brush tool and option selected? Vespine (talk) 23:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Windows update killed wireless connections?[edit]

A couple of hours ago, I installed the latest update for Windows 8, and immediately upon completing the restart, I observed that I had no wireless networks whatsoever: I was getting an icon that I normally only see when I'm using my computer in the car, and nothing I could do would restore anything. I borrowed another laptop at this point, and with it I was able to see that the building's network was indeed still running; it was a problem with my computer. I then performed a system restore, and since that point everything's been running without any problems. What was in this update that would have affected my network usability? Can anyone imagine what happened? Nyttend (talk) 17:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a bug to me. Specifically, I bet something in your wireless configuration is different from what they tested the update on, and so they missed this problem. This seems more likely if you are using some older wireless equipment or drivers which Windows 8 no longer supports (perhaps it never did, but it continued to work using the code Windows 8 inherited from earlier versions, until they made this change). StuRat (talk) 17:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I bought the computer in late 2013 (late November or early December), and it came with Windows 8 preinstalled, if that's at all relevant. Nyttend (talk) 17:52, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Were the wireless hardware and drivers also pre-installed ? If so, I'd hope that whoever did so would have checked to ensure that they were supported by Windows 8. StuRat (talk) 17:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
January 13 was the last Patch Tuesday, so you probably got one of the patches listed here. You can try Windows updates, install the patches one at a time and see which one breaks. Once we know the patch in question we can work towards a resolution. --  Gadget850 talk 17:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Computer was bought on 7 December 2013. Presumably they were pre-installed; I'm really not much of a computer whiz, and I don't know where to go for drivers or hardware. I've never had to have repairs performed on this machine; it has all of the original hardware. There may have been some interaction with security software — I had to run the system restore tice, because a small part of the first run failed (and it didn't resolve the connectivity problem) and gave me a note suggesting that I disable my antivirus. After I turned off AVG Antivirus, everything went fine, and yes I did remember to turn it back on. Nyttend (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: When updating, think about the probability of risks. Microsoft is very slow to release updates. So if one doesn’t update as soon as they are release, one computer could have been venerable for months– BUT the updates (compared to say Debian) are relativity untested. So, I would say, that next time, wait until you can google too see if the update has any problematical bugs. Also run your Microsoft OS in Virtual machine. Then if everything suddenly goes Pear-shaped on an update or virus infection/etc, (at a time where you need your computer to work and you don't have the free time to sort it out there and then), one can then simply go back to the uncorrupted version.--Aspro (talk) 18:52, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
That sounds fine in theory, but with a dozen updates a week, that would be a major time commitment to research each update before installing it. And Microsoft is no help. Their summary of what the updates does either says "addresses issues in Windows" or "addresses a security risk", with no more detail than that. They provide a link for "more info", but it doesn't take you to info on that particular update, but rather it dumps you onto their update site and leaves you to try to track down each update. StuRat (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
In practice, I find it a breeze (compared to running widows naked)so it think we have have our wires crossed. What are we talking about, bells and whistles updates or security issues. Doesn't matter. Running Microsoft in a VM (on say Dabian) means that if one is struck by a Zero-day attack or whatever, ones exposure is limited. And one can quickly roll back. If one then discovers a serious bug...which stops you using your computer...Just roll back. It is only then you need to google. So no major time commitment. Here is a step by step guide:[9]--Aspro (talk) 20:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
But it could be the OP got a recommended update (such as a hardware specific one) which would be listed there but I think may still come out on patch Tuesday. And does it list all security updates including those that are hardware specific? From the description, I think it doesn't. If I was the OP, since they've apparently rolled back I would actually look at the updates that are available for them and uninstalled. In particularly, I'd look first for anything related to their wireless networking hardware. Nil Einne (talk) 19:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
If updates are set to automatic, then this will happen again. Until we know the particular update the system is open to the same issue occuring again. --  Gadget850 talk 19:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. The OP may want to also turn off automatic updating in the interim while they check out which updates and try to work out which one is the problem. Alternatively they could just assume something weird went on and it won't repeat itself Nil Einne (talk) 20:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
In general, one thing you can do in this situation is temporarily turn off automatic updating, manually install only security updates for a week or so, then reenable automatic updating. Windows 8's installed base is large enough that any bug in the updates will almost certainly affect a very large number of people (especially when it affects hardware that shipped with Windows 8), many of whom will notify Microsoft (either explicitly or perhaps via telemetry), and a week is probably enough time for them to fix it or temporarily pull the update until it's fixed.
Of course, a security update could be the cause of the problem. In that case you would have to hold off on installing the security updates too (which is not ideal but is probably safe enough) or else try to identify the broken one. -- BenRG (talk) 23:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Patch Tuesday of February 13 had eight patches.[10] Unless previous updates were missed, there should be only these eight patches. Applying them one at a time is not going to be an arduous task. If one of the updates kills wireless, then we can look more deeply into that particular update. These were all security patches: nothing pops at me as affecting wireless directly but one of the involves Radius. --  Gadget850 talk 13:20, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Wifi tethering *from* a laptop[edit]

I've seen lots of discussion about tethering from a cell phone to a laptop, but I want to go the other way: From my laptop, which has wifi, to my Obi, which only has wired input. Is that possible? That is, can I hook up my toll-free land line at, say, the hardware store? — kwami (talk) 20:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

If I understand correctly: WiFi → Laptop → Wired → Obi. You could try this by going to the adapter settings and bridging the wired and wireless adapters. The Obi will need a static address. Might be simpler to buy the Obi wireless adapter. I have used the bridging, but never on the Obi. --  Gadget850 talk 22:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! Yes, simpler that way, but I shouldn't be buying more stuff. — kwami (talk) 22:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The "Internet Connection Sharing" option (in MS-Windows 7 and later) should be able to bridge your Wifi connection and ethernet connection together. It should be possible to allow DHCP to pass through the bridge; this way both your laptop's and Obi's ethernet card will get a IP address from your WiFi source. LongHairedFop (talk) 11:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I haven't used ICS in a decade, but that should work. --  Gadget850 talk 13:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Lovely! I'll give it a try. — kwami (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Language/Toolkit for Lightweight Linux GUI Programming[edit]

Is there a language/toolkit that lets you program a simple Linux GUI by drawing the windows and adding objects and callbacks (a la Visual Basic on a Windows computer)? By simple, I mean something like MS Paint or Freecell: a few menus, dialogue boxes, and so on. I will write most of the program internals in C, but I don't want to deal directly with API calls for what will essentially be a lightweight front end. Thanks! OldTimeNESter (talk) 22:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

There are loads of options. If you are a C programmer, you might find the GTK+ API to be your most platform-portable C GUI toolkit. A GUI-based GUI-builder, Glade for GTK+, also exists. Nimur (talk) 23:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Honestly, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the number of options. I don't want to invest considerable time in learning to use something, only to find out down the line that it doesn't really fit my purpose. GTK+ looks very promising, though; I'll definitely check it out. OldTimeNESter (talk) 09:27, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 30[edit]

Urdu keyboard for Nokia Lumia[edit]

Is it possible to have Urdu keyboard for Nokia Lumia somehow? The list of phone's keyboards doesn't have that. (talk) 04:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Try or Justin15w (talk) 16:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Alt code no keypad[edit]

Unable to get Alt code to work on a Win7 machine with no numeric keypad. The possible solution suggested here does not work, it just beeps for each number keypress. Any way around this? ―Mandruss  07:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so. I tend to keep my Character Map open when I need extended characters; it works a bit like the "Special characters" feature in the Wikipedia edit window.--Shantavira|feed me 08:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
There are compose key applications for MS-Windows. If you enter Latin diagraphs frequently, you may find it more useful than looking up the correct UTF-8 number. LongHairedFop (talk) 11:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It's also possible to buy a USB numeric keypad (or use a full USB keyboard) to make things easier. StuRat (talk) 15:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Reverse engineering[edit]

Special:Random led me to the Crackme page; I was surprised to see that it's difficult for knowledgeable people to reverse-engineer a program. Since software necessarily results in the zeroes and ones going to the CPU, why is it difficult for the human user to be able to get the code in some fashion, whether machine code or something more readable? Couldn't you just open an .exe file in Notepad, or something like that, and get the code? Just curious: I'm not planning on attempting this kind of thing. Nyttend (talk) 13:26, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

It depends on what you think of as the "code" and what you mean by reverse engineer (e.g. what are the goals?). It also depends on what you mean by "difficult" - lots of people do this, it just isn't something that you can pick up and do in an afternoon. Some techniques are described at Reverse_engineering#Binary_software_techniques.
The general reason that it's "hard" is because Compilers are sort of like a one-way function (n.b. pedants, this is just a vague analogy :) The point is, there is no simple way to decompile an exe and get source code back. There are things called decompilers, but I don't think they work with much generality. This is part of why people started GNU and similar open-source software (products/development groups, licenses, etc.). Sure, you can open up an exe file and look at it, but what will you do? If you change even a single character, the whole thing might break. So you can't usually alter things at that level. If you want to share it with a friend, you might run in to built-in copy protection. There's a lot more to it, but I think the key is that compilation is a many-to-one operation. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I use an excellent free-software debugger, lldb. It can disassemble almost all executable file formats, including most variants of what you can call "an .exe file," and present me with, e.g., the x86 machine code in human-readable mnemonics. However, this does not mean that the code is easy to understand or modify. I think Nyttend's conceptual stumbling block is that he misapprehends the absolutely vast conceptual chasm between having code - in any form - and understanding this code in a way that is suitable to modify its control flow. This task is challenging even in high-level languages. In low-level representations like machine-code mnemonics, the task is more challenging because it requires very thorough knowledge of overwhelmingly-complex modern CPU architectures. Nimur (talk) 16:17, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
1) It wouldn't be readable in a regular text editor, as many of the characters are nonprinting characters, like ESC. There are special editors, like BEAV (Binary Editor And Viewer) which display those characters as HEX codes or something else readable.
2) Making sense of those HEX codes is also quite difficult, as it's written in machine language, and you'd need to know exactly how that computer interprets it to figure out what it means. Even then, that would be quite a difficult task. For example, all the comments and variable names are stripped off, so figuring out exactly why the program is doing what it does at each step may be a mystery. StuRat (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

You are talking about a decompiler. It is trivial to get the assembly out of program (disassembly), unless it is self-modifying. However, for all but the most simple programs, understanding what it is doing is not easy. The are no variable or function names to guide you, nor is the layout of the data structures available. An optimising compiler will inter-leave the CPU instructions for each source statement in the original code. You can use information from the operating-systems calls to guide you, as they are in a fixed known format, and that knowledge can be used understand the meaning of a variable, and then the variable can be tracked as it passes into other function. However, IIRC, decompilers need a lot of guidance from their users. LongHairedFop (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Here is a relevant TedTalk by Chris Domas, about reverse engineering firmware and the like. Fractal618 (talk) 15:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

To add to Nimur's (excellent) response, most compilers optimize the source in ways that, while more efficient, are very difficult to trace back to the original intent of the source. Some code is also intentionally designed to be difficult to reverse engineer (either through obfuscation, or inserting code that monitors the debugging interrupts and alters the code's execution. Then there is the simple fact than after you run the executable through a dissassembler, you have to distinguish the substantive program code from the file header, boilerplate code (i.e. code that the compiler adds to each program to set up a stack and transfer control to the main procedure), and data. ALL of this looks the same: in particular, there is no way to tell what part of the dissassembled file is code and what is data by examining the file itself. You must rely on what you know about the language convention, compiler, operating system, and processor. And if the program interleaves code and data--a fairly common practice for lookup tables or jump tables--then some of this data will have values that are valid opcodes. Is the string "movl ax, 1" an opcode that will be executed, or an interleaved data element?

Can you work around these difficulties? Sure, in some cases: visit or to see how people have reverse-engineered NES and Sega video games (if you REALLY want your mind blown, visit, where they describe how to retrieve the machine code from a mask ROM with powerful solvents and image recognition software. My hat is off to these guys!). Finally, for a great discussion of the issues I've brought up, complete with examples, visit, which provides information on reverse engineering 80x86 machine code. OldTimeNESter (talk) 18:47, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Response to everyone: what's the point of something like Crackme? I figured the point was to enable a professional or highly-experienced amateur to be able to get the machine code from the .exe. I'm not asking how I can do it; I'm asking about it being done by a guy who's already highly familiar with computer science, and perhaps highly familiar with the type of program that's being reverse engineered. This is something I've never understood about open-source software, as well: you already have the code for non-open source software (otherwise your computer couldn't understand what to do), so what's the difference? I understand the copyright issues, of course; I'm talking about the technical ability to do stuff, regardless of whether it's legal. And isn't there a one-to-one mapping of machine code to a more readable form? If not, how could it be opened in Notepad (i.e. how would Notepad know that this was an ESC character and that was something else?), and how would the "Assembly languages" section of machine code be able to work? Nyttend (talk) 21:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Your questions, answered in sequence:
  • "what's the point of something like Crackme?" ... "I figured the point was to enable a professional or highly-experienced amateur to be able to get the machine code from the .exe."
    • You've mixed up a "Crackme" with the tool you would use to solve it. And no, that is not the point of a crackme. A "crackme" is a software toy, a brain-teaser: it's sort of like a sudoku puzzle. It's any particular instance of a software program that is presented as a challenging problem. A programmer might find a solution to any particular "crackme" problem using other tools - like a debugger or disassembler. A person who is good at "solving" such "crackme" brain-teasers might also be good at reverse-engineering other types of software problems - there is an overlapping skill-set. A programmer might "hone their skills" by practicing on these toy programs, and later use those skills to solve real problems, potentially with illicit goals. It is my opinion that this is an inefficient use of a programmer's time: the very same person could simply go read the compiler- or debugger- manual instead of pretending that their "hackery" is equivalent to an act of magic.
Now, to your other questions:
  • "isn't there a one-to-one mapping of machine code to a more readable form...?"
    • No, this is not strictly true. The first issue is, "what constitutes a more readable form?" There are thousands of ways to answer that. A disassembler can substitute numeric codes with text-mnemonics. For most computer architectures, this mapping is one-to-one - with a few special caveats. However - this format, which is still called "machine code" - is not very suitable for a skilled programmer who wants to read, modify, and generally understand the program. Even highly-skilled programmers can only read and decipher very tiny, trivial, minuscule bits of machine-code. It doesn't matter whether your "hacker" is an autistic autodidact who learned how to program on a home-built computer, soldered out of CPUs constructed from bits of discarded aluminum cans on the street, or if she is a highly-paid, highly trained, world-caliber programmer with university pedigrees. A machine-code listing of a program longer than, say, 150 mega-words cannot be read and understood by a human. A human cannot read one hundred fifty million machine-instructions and make meaningful sense of them. This is why we use digital computers: these machines do menial jobs, like instruction fetch and decode - faster than any human can. Even if you find a speed-reader who can read ordinary English prose at a hundred pages per minute, I can find program code listings that would take hundreds of earth-years for that human to read. A decompiler - which is a totally different tool than a disassembler - attempts to take these listings and back-project them into a higher-level language, where the representation can be orders of magnitude more compact. Ergo, it attempts to summarize the long program-listing with a shorter, but exactly equivalent representation. Add extra emphasis on the word "attempt." Decompilation is notorious for producing source-code that is less readable than the machine code. This is an immature field; the state of the art is not very good.
  • "...about open-source software, as well: you already have the code for non-open source software (otherwise your computer couldn't understand what to do), so what's the difference...?" (emphasis added)
    • This is a sticky point. What is "source code"? In fact, the Free Software Foundation does not provide a definition for source code based on what it is. Instead, "The Free Software Definition" tells you what source-code is based on what you can do with it. If you can freely run, study, modify, and redistribute it, it is source code. So, if I write a perl-program, the text of my program listing is the source-code. If I use Glade to generate a user-interface for my GTK+ program, my Glade program outputs an XML file and that file is my source-code. If I use Xcode Interface Builder, I might choose to define my plist as my source code - even if that plist is committed to disk as a binary file. If I write a perl program to create the text of a different C program which I later compile - the source code might be either the text in perl, or the intermediate text in C. And if I write a perl script to produce a VHDL description of a CPU and then use that CPU to design a compiler to compile my C program and then run that C program to launch Glade and design a user interface in GTK+.... nobody really knows where my "source code" ends, and where my "program" starts. The source code, according to FSF, is whatever stuff allows another user to read, study, modify, and redistribute my program. Lawyers who specialize in licensing can quibble for years about this. Ironically, despite FSF's efforts to make a clearly-written plain-english license, the GPL is perfectly worded for attorneys' job security! Other organizations use different definitions. For example, IEEE "so construes" source code to also include binary executables. The aptly named IEEE-SCAM conference is the world's preeminent place to argue about this. If one wanted, one could make the case that they distribute "source" (in a license-compliant way) simply by distributing the binary executable of that software. I do not, however, think they would win many court-cases. Probably most amazingly: according to this very same amorphous definition, if I gave you the source listings for the script that generated the compiler that designed the CPU that ( ... ) ... the listings would be so massive that you could not freely run, study, modify, and redistribute - and they would cease to be source code according to the FSF. There is a word for this type of source-code - it's source, but no human can use it!
Nimur (talk) 22:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
See how basic my (mis)understanding is — I thought Crackme was a family of related programs ("I bought Crackme from Amazon" or "I support Crackme's programs in their corporate goals"), not realising that crackmes were a genre of programs. So "source code" isn't just the machine code: I missed out on that. Imagine that I buy a CD with a computer program on it: I know that the CD just stores 0 and 1, so I figured that it stored the machine code for the program, and that when the software manufacturer's programmers open the file, they'd have a tool that made the machine code readable by converting it into the text one or more of the programmers typed while using C++ or Visual Basic or whatever they're using. So...if you start with machine code, it's not possible to do an exact conversion into the instructions that were typed using the programming language? If that's the case, now I think I slightly understand the technical difference between open and non-open source software: is it that open, unlike non-open, comes with the instructions typed using the programming language? Nyttend (talk) 22:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The CD does store the machine instructions (1s and 0s). Each instruction is a binary string that corresponds to an operation that the processor can perform; this is called an opcode. There is one opcode for every instruction the processor can execute; if there is no opcode for a task, the processor cannot do it, because it is not designed to do it, in the same way that turtles cannot fly, because they do not have wings (i.e. the required functionality just isn't there).
A sample opcode might be 00110001. This opcode might move a literal value (like "1") to the register AX (registers are the processor's temporary storage areas). A program might do this so that later it can add the value in AX (here, "1") to another value.
It's hard to remember that 00110001 refers to the opcode that moves a literal value to the register AX. So, we assign a mnemonic, like the string "MOV AX, 1". This way, we can write the opcode as "MOV AX, 1" rather than "00110001". However, the computer only understands "00110001", so we use a program called an asssembler that replaces "MOV AX, 1" with "00110001". This is called asssembling the program, and it is the literal substitution of one text string for another. There is a 1 to 1 correspondence between the mnemonics and the binary opcodes, and the assembler does the same task as a simple cipher that replaces A with 1, B with 2, and so on.
Since there is a 1 to 1 correspondence, you can also go the other direction. The mnemonics and binary opcode relationships are publicly available for any processor you will ever encounter. Going from the binary opcode to the mnemonic is called dissassembly. You can download a dissassembler (also publicly available) and run the program on your CD through it; then you will have a list of mnemonics like "MOV AX, 1" that tell you explicitly what the program does. Reverse-engineering the program requires you to read through this list of mnemonics and figure out what they do.
This is very difficult to do, because programs of any size and complexity are not written using mnemonics; instead, they are written in what is termed a "higher-level" language, such as C++, Python, or Visual Basic. This is because the opcodes do very specific, very specialized tasks, and it takes dozens (if not hundreds) of them to do something as simple as print the phrase "Hello,world" to the screen. In contrast, you can type the statement PRINT "HELLO,WORLD" in Visual Basic, and it will do this. This is what the programmers actually do, and the list of statements is called the source code. Of course, the processor can't understand PRINT "HELLO,WORLD" either, so this statement must be translated to the dozen or so opcodes that actually do the work. This is called compilation. Writing a program to do this type of translation is very, very difficult, but it is certainly possible, and in fact there are compilers for every language that programs you are likely to encounter as a consumer are written in.
Now, for the fundamental problem: there is no generalizable way to translate the list of mnemonics back to the source code; that is, to decompile. This is because there is NOT a 1 to 1 relationship between the statement PRINT "HELLO,WORLD" and the opcodes that do the work. The reason why is technical, but you can get a sense of it by thinking of the function y = x^2; you can translate any x value into a y value, but given a y value, you can't determine the unique x value that created it (for example, if y = 4, x could be 2 or -2). For the decompilation problem, it's much worse: there can be a very large number of possible source code statements generated by each discrete set of opcodes.
If you're reverse-engineering, you don't have access to the source code (otherwise, you could just find out what the program does by reading the statements like PRINT "HELLO,WORLD"). You have to work with the list of mnemonics, and there is no general way to translate this list back into the source code.
Figuring out what the program does from the list of mnemonics is possible, but for programs of any size and complexity, it is extremely difficult. The C++ source code to open a single window and print "Hello,World" in MS Windows would make a German philosopher blush in its length and complexity (you can view it here This is for the most basic program than anyone would write, one with no real functionality! This source code compiles to thousands and thousands of opcodes, and these are all you have access to. The probability of reverse engineering MS Word from such a list is vanishingly small; even Freecell is daunting.
It gets worse: the program on your CD (the executable file) doesn't just contain opcodes, it also contains data, and a file header. The disassembler cannot distinguish between the opcodes, the data, and the file header: it just translates 0010001 to MOV AX, 1, even though 0010001 might be an ASCII character to be displayed, or the part of the header that tells MS Windows how big the file is.
It get worse II: the source code will have variables, functions, and control structures with descriptive names. You might have StringToPrint, printf(), and a control structure such as if...then. The dissassembled opcodes have none of this: variables are either raw addresses, or elements on the program stack. Functions (generally called subroutines in assembly) are called by their address; that is, you don't call printf(), you jump to address 00111001101110011111100100111101. You don't see "if x = 1 then printf()", you see a comparison instruction followed by an address.
It gets worse III: modern compilers optimize their output code in ways that, while efficient, are often extremely non-intuitive. Reverse engineering a program in the 1960s might be compared to figuring out how your auto's manual transmission works; today, it is figuring out the computer-controlled automatic transmission, with no manual or specifications.
It gets worse IV: companies don't want people reverse engineering their programs, so they have their programmers obfuscate the code, or encrypt it, or insert sections that look to see if the program is being debugged (as opposed to run by the end user) and if so, change the program's behavior (this is possible because debuggers have to call system interrupts to execute the program line by line; the programmers can monitor these interrupts and react accordingly).
It gets better (?). There are workarounds for these problems: compilers have standardized ways of doing things, such as how they implement an if...then statement. The location and contents of file headers is generally known, and most programs keep their data lumped together in different dedicated sections (some interleave it with the opcodes though, and that is a BITCH to work through). The more common optimizations are known, and can be accounted for. You can even defeat encryption or debugger-trapping: the program has to be decrypted at some point (otherwise it can't run), and you can patch the code to remove the trapping, or run it in a virtual machine where you can step through line by line without explicit interrupt calls. None of this is easy or quick; in fact, the reverse engineers mantra might be "fast, good, or cheap: pick any ONE." Then pray.
I hope this helps answer your question, and that I haven't been too wordy. As you can see, I'm very passionate about this, and I'm glad your question gave me the chance to go on about it at length. Good luck! OldTimeNESter (talk) 10:33, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

hidden code in HTML files[edit]

One of my pages has several inches of white space that I didn't put in. There is noting in the code that would cause that result. When I look at the code using the Firefox tool Inspect Element - Inspector I see a slew of breaks:

    <table style="width:100%; margin-left:50px">

This is what the visible code shows:

<div><table style="width:100%;  margin-left:50px">

What is happening, and how can I deal with it? --Halcatalyst (talk) 17:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

If you had told us 'which' page we can more easily diagnos it. It could be another editor adding blank lines.--Aspro (talk) 20:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry. It's near the top of --Halcatalyst (talk) 21:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
it's all the <br> found at the end of each table data row. Get rid of them ... they stack up at the top for who knows what reason, and they're not required, quite apart from being placed so as to be useless.
           <td><a href="#fairy">"Fairy Drift"</a></td><br>
           <td><a href="#memoriam">"In Memoriam"</a></td><br>

--Tagishsimon (talk) 22:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

In fact, they're not even valid HTML: nothing may occur in a <tr> except <th> and <td> elements. But most browsers ignore this sort of syntax error. --ColinFine (talk) 01:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
More importantly, the HTML specification says what browsers are supposed to do for valid HTML code. They say nothing whatever about what the browser is supposed to do when faced with incorrect HTML like this. So you may find that one browser produces something reasonable when you make mistakes like this - where another browser generates a totally screwed up page. Neither browser is behaving incorrectly - so it's important that you don't generate garbage. Even when it look OK on your browser - you can't possibly check it on every version of every browser on every platform and every window size and screen resolution. SteveBaker (talk) 03:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
And mobile browsers seem more sensitive to invalid HTML. --  Gadget850 talk 11:17, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • It works now. Thank you all. --Halcatalyst (talk) 18:49, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Serials and digital signature[edit]

While using a keygen, I wondered, how come those serials are reproducible?
I mean, if any serial represents only a simple digital signature, one must break the key, to become a serial generator.
The only solution that I can think about is, that the processing power rises exponentially, but then, every modern software will be keygen-immune.
So, how come that software companies, just don't use electronic signatures to produce serials? Exx8 (talk) 23:47, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I can answer the first bit. Usually it's a series of equations that bring about a certain result at the end called a check digit. The sequence of numbers and the check digit need to make sense according to those equations. Credit card numbers work much the same way. That's one of the reasons why a programme can tell right off the bat if you've entered an invalid CC number. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11 Shevat 5775 17:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Digital signatures are fairly large. The rule of thumb seems to be that you need a 4n-bit signature to get n bits of security. Serial numbers tend to be made of case-insensitive letters and digits with ambiguous letters like O omitted, which works out to about 5 bits per character. A 25-character serial number would then only get you about 31 bits of security, which is useless, and 25 characters is already a hassle for legitimate customers. -- BenRG (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]

Web browser-like program to display HTML pages[edit]


Is there any program that just displays web pages but has absolutely no networking ability? Like a web browser designed for browsing local html only? The "work offline" function of Firefox is inadequate because it is easily overridden and the networking functions are still loaded into memory and take up RAM. Thanks

You can always physically disconnect the Internet connection, but of course the RAM issue is not addressed by this. And, obviously, any links to web sites won't work. StuRat (talk) 17:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Does Comparison of HTML editors help?--Shantavira|feed me 20:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

firefox AVG malware removal[edit]

Hi. Firefox 35.0.1. I have had problems with AVG security toolbar, something to do with the "Ask Jeeves" scam. I have uninstalled and reinstalled firefox, removed the firefox directory from c:\Programs (x286), and uninstalled AVG using the uninstaller. But when I click on "Add-ons manager" in firefox, the AVG security toolbar is still there. The other addon (a typing tutor) has "disable" and "remove" options. But the AVG scam addon is still there. It is disabled, but the only option is "enable". There is no "remove" option. This makes me nervous. I tried starting firefox in safemode, same story. Can anyone advise? Robinh (talk) 23:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


So I've been using ProCite for a couple of years--it's clunky and not very user-friendly, but it's what I had. Unfortunately, it is no longer made, updated, supported. Who knows of a comparable program which will also accept my old ProCite files? Thanks. Drmies (talk) 23:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

The company that bought ProCite sells a reference manager called EndNote, and it can import and convert a ProCite database. (Depending on your ProCite version, this process may be complicated with one or more intermediate steps). There might be other options, but at least this one will get your data into a more modern piece of software. Nimur (talk) 10:31, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


January 27[edit]

What kind of bird?[edit]

What kind of bird is this? (I photographed it on the coast of Georgia, USA.)

I asked someone who should know, and they said anhinga. But the beak looks too different (among other things). Anyhow, that article led me to Cormorant, which has about the same kind of beak. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 06:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Yup, definitely a cormorant, and a very good photo of one, in a typical pose (drying its wings). They are common and widespread.--Shantavira|feed me 08:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I was out taking some photos (e.g. Jekyll Island Club#Gallery) and I suddenly had the opportunity to take aome photos of the bird. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 08:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

LH & FSH produced by negative or positive feedback?[edit] (talk) 15:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

OK - I give up. You're going to have to expand your question a bit. What does FH and FSH stand for in this context? It's really hard to guess and our disambiguation pages for those two acronyms don't show up anything that helps!
(If someone here can guess from the context - please add the expansion into those two dab pages!) SteveBaker (talk) 15:30, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I suspect the OP may have intended to ask about FSH and LH, not FSH and FH. I.E. follicle-stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. Nil Einne (talk) 16:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
[you're right, I correct it. (talk) 19:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)]
Assuming you meant LH and FSH, you can read about endocrine feedback loops at Hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis. --Mark viking (talk) 17:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The Original Poster really needs to come back and provide more info; otherwise mēdeís may hat it. An' then non of us will discover the real question nor answer--Aspro (talk) 19:07, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, I meant to LH& FSH - hormones. Sorry (talk) 19:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I read the article that mentioned above and I didn't understand a clear answer for my question. (talk) 19:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Well we don't understand your question. Please now explain what you mean by negative and positive feedback in this context.--Shantavira|feed me 11:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
We also have articles on positive feedback and negative feedback, both are common in biological systems for signaling and control. This page from a class at UC Berkeley [11] seems to say that estrogen in females can trigger both positive and negative feedback to FSH and LH. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:43, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

What is the antonym of "conspecific"?[edit]

If 2 organisms are from different species, is there an adjective that can describe this?

Heterospecific. See biological specificity for relations among the types of specificity. --Mark viking (talk) 17:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
But I personally would go out of my way to avoid using either of those words, even in a scientific paper. It's so easy to say "same species" and "different species" without resorting to Latinish gobbldygook. Looie496 (talk) 19:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I absolutely agree. There's no reason to resort to Latin when perfectly good English words exist, unless the intention is to deliberately try to hide the meaning from the common man. StuRat (talk) 20:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, this is nonsense. Of course you are both entitled to your opinions. But let me offer a contrary view to the OP and anyone else who happens to read:
Shall we never talk about intramural sports, and instead speak of "sports played by teams within the same school or organization"? Looie, shall we not speak of dendrites in scientific papers on neuroscience, and instead prefer "the branching part at the end of a neuron"? What about the hippocampus or the amygdala? Are all those terms gobbledegook Latin/Greek? No, they are English words that have simple meanings, and most high school graduates know them. You would be laughed out of the review process if you submitted a paper talking about the "seahorse-shaped part of the brain". These words are English words, as are "heterospecific", "conspecific", as well as "interspecific" and "intraspecific". We also have heterogenous and heterosexual and heterozygous -- all English words. As are "confluence" and "congenital", "converge", "congregation", "congener" etc. I won't even bother listing the many common words that start with "intra-" or "inter-".
The simple fact of the matter is that these terms for biological specificity (as well as their derivatives, e.g. "confamilial", etc) are highly useful for science writing, especially in the fields of evolution, ecology, and organismal biology. If I had to write "competition between two individuals that are not of the same species" instead of "interspecific competition", I'd never be able to fit abstracts into the word limits, let alone the appalling sentences that would result. I do appreciate the desire for clarity and simplicity in science writing, and I also try to avoid five dollar words where a simple one would suffice. But heterospecific and conspecific are basic terms with simple definitions, that use the same standard prefixes as dozens (if not hundreds) of other words. It's not too much to expect people to know them if they are reading science papers in these fields. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
You've missed the point entirely. It's only where there are widely understood simple English words or phrases that they should be used in place of arcane Latin terms. Obviously long-winded English descriptions don't qualify. The English phrase shouldn't be much longer than the Latin. Of course, where you have a Latin phrase, like a writ of habeas corpus (literally meaning a written order to "produce the body"), then an English phrase, like an "order to bring the prisoner to court" would be far easier to understand. As for people laughing, I imagine many laughed when church services were first performed in English instead of Latin, too. StuRat (talk) 04:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Off Center Thrust in Spacecraft[edit]

If a rocket motor on a spacecraft is not perfectly aligned with the center of mass of said spacecraft, how much of the thrust will become rotary motion, and how much will become linear motion? If some of the thrust becomes linear motion, what direction would that motion take? I imagine that the spacecraft would follow a curved trajectory, much like the depictions in old spaceship cartoons. While we are at it, aligning a rocket motor with the center of mass of a craft with a mobile payload, like the shuttle, would be a bit of a trick. How is it done? (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Over sufficiently long time the average velocity of the spacecraft will tend to a constant, while the rotation will be continuously accelerating. Ruslik_Zero 20:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
If I am not mistaken this constant velocity limit will (in case the mass of fuel is negligible and rotation is about a fixed axis) be
where m is the mass of the spacecraft, I is its inertia moment, r0 is displacement of the thrust relative to the center of mass and F is the thrust. This constant velocity will be directed some 45 degrees from the initial trust direction. Ruslik_Zero 20:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
It's never possible to align a rocket motor perfectly with the center of mass, so spacecraft have a number of ways to counteract the torque induced by poor alignment. Some rocket engines have gimbaled thrust, so they can change their thrust vector slightly. Reaction wheels resist changes in orientation due to torque. Reaction control systems use small thrusters to actively change the spacecraft's orientation. In Earth orbit, spacecraft can also use magnetorquers for stabilization by taking advantage of the Earth's magnetic field. For orbital launches, rockets often carry ballast so that their mass distribution is exactly what their designers intended. Cubesats take advantage of this to get a cheap ride into orbit--rather than carry dead weight, why not carry some cubesats? --Bowlhover (talk) 10:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

S-IC S-II cutoff on Apollo 13[edit]

The previous question got me to wondering something. During the launch of Apollo 13, the center engine of the S-IC first stage S-II second stage shut down prematurely. The decision was made to burn the outboard engines longer to compensate. But what if it was one of the outboard engines that shut down? How would the imbalance have been dealt with?    → Michael J    21:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

It was actually the S-II second stage that had the problem with pogo oscillation. If one of the outboard engines had shut down as well (and presuming that it wasn't immediately catastrophic), the spacecraft would have jettisoned the second stage and performed a COI (Contingency Orbit Insertion) burn with the S-IVB for an Earth-orbit mission. See Apollo abort modes. Tevildo (talk) 23:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I believe that Michael J was not asking about it losing a second engine, but wondered if thrust vectoring could have compensated if the engine which shut down was one of the outboard ones. -- ToE 00:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
According to the flight rules for Apollo 11 (here, page 102), BOOSTER would call an abort if three of the S-II engines were out, or two were out and the commanded gimbal angles on the remaining engines were greater than 40° off nominal. So, it was presumably capable of a full mission if it had lost one of the outboard engines, and even losing two wouldn't have required an immediate abort. Tevildo (talk) 01:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
You are correct, it was the S-II, not the S-IC. Oops.    → Michael J    01:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
For that matter, if it was okay to fly with 3 out of 5 engines, then if an outboard engine failed and it wasn't certain that the gimbals could compensate well enough for the off-center thrust, they could have chosen to shut down the opposite outboard engine. -- (talk) 02:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
"...gimbal angles on the remaining engines were greater than 40° off nominal." I would be surprised if the engines could be angled more than 10 degrees. (talk) 03:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it sounded like a lot to me, as well. According to the user manual (page 83), the S-II gimbal range was ±7°. The verbatim text of the flight rules is "[Abort] if the difference in commanded angles and gimbal angles exceeds 40 deg in pitch or yaw", so it may refer to the attitude error of the spacecraft itself rather than the engine. The important point is that it could keep going with two engines out in most circumstances, and I'm sure the people at Houston (who _were_ rocket scientists) could be trusted to make the right decision. Tevildo (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]

Does an undampened magnetic spring system ever stop?[edit]

If a magnetic spring system, like this one[12], is placed in perfect vacuum and the center rod is replaced with a magnetic equivalent so there's zero fiction, will the system ever stop after an initial excitation? I know for the traditional spring system the energy will slowly be converted into heat and it will eventually stop. Does the magnetic system also convert some of the kinetic energy into heat? WinterWall (talk) 07:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, subjecting a material affected by magnetism to a variable magnetic field will generate heat. StuRat (talk) 07:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Doh! We even have an article on it: magnetic damping. Thanks for the help, and sorry for not searching hard enough beforehand. WinterWall (talk) 08:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Flower ID[edit]

Can someone please identify the flower ID please? Nikhil (talk) 16:23, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Unknown flower
Where did you see it?--Shantavira|feed me 16:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes more info would help. If you took the photo, not only where, but when? Looks a bit like a partridge pea to me. The things to check that can make you more sure (or rule this guess out) 1) Does the flower have bilateral symmetry? All legumes do, if this one doesn't it's not a partridge pea. Complicating the matter is that partridge pea flowers look a bit like radial symmetry at a glance, but one petal should be bigger than the rest, with 5 total. 2) Do the seeds have a pea pod shape? That plant might not have set seeds yet, but (assuming you took the photo) you could check back in a few weeks. Browse through this image search [13]] for more images. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I strongly suspect it's an Acacia of some sort, the leaves and thorns indicate this, and they usually have yellow flowers. But there are on the order of 1,000 species. μηδείς (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
You know I wasn't sure if there were thorns or not. Looking more closely... I'm still not sure :) Looks a bit too sturdy for Partridge Pea though, and the leaves look sclerophyllic, which also points toward Acacia. Of course neither of these genera are native to India (of which OP is a citizen), but they could probably grow there. Anyway, we both came up with guesses in the Fabaceae family, so that's something. At the very least, the same things that I mentioned would rule out Partridge pea would also rule out Acacia spp., but we'd probably need a key and a sample to get to get positive confirmation on species level ID. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The leaves make me think of Caesalpinia. Richard Avery (talk) 08:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
What I thought were thorns may be bare twigs. In any case it's obviously in the Fabaceae. μηδείς (talk) 17:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


Maybe I don't completely understand chirality, but the sentence "no matter how the two hands are oriented, it is impossible for all the major features of both hands to coincide" in chirality (chemistry) looks wrong. Due to symmetry in biology the human body is an achiral object - if you align both palms for applause or prayer, for instance, then both palms will coincide (as both halves of the body do). And if you lean your palm against the mirror, the reflection will match it. What's wrong actually? Brandmeistertalk 17:53, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

What they mean is you get the mirror image. A right hand glove and a left hand glove are never exactly the same, no matter how you rotate them. They are mirror images, instead. Try putting the glove on the wrong hand to see what I mean.
Now I agree that the word "coincide" doesn't quite convey what they are trying to say, as we might very well say "the major features in the mirror image coincide with the original". But that's a problem with the language, which lacks a simple, universally understood word which means "chirality". StuRat (talk) 18:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Chirality and handedness are synonyms, its usage of which should be clear when used in context (so as to not be confused with hand preference). -Modocc (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The two palms coincide, but the two hands do not. Starting at a coincident point on the palm, to get to the knuckle of one hand you have to go in a different direction than the knuckle of the other hand. There's no way you can orient your hands such that all parts (front, back; top, bottom) will simultaneously align. (Palms, when treated as 2D objects like you do here, aren't chiral. In fact, no 2D object is chiral in 3D space.) Likewise, when you talk about humans being symmetric and achiral, that's for the human as taken as a whole. When you talk about hands as distinct objects, they are not chiral. You can get an achiral object from the combination of chiral sub-parts, if you attach the two mirror images across the plane of symmetry. You see this in chemistry, too, where they're called meso compounds - there you have molecules which have individual carbon atoms which have chirality, but are organized in such a way which the molecule as a whole is achiral, a fact which can be confirmed by optical rotation. One problem you may be having is a difficulty in envisioning "coinciding" hands, because of the physical impossibility of actually doing it. Perhaps a better phrasing is to talk about being able to move from one to the other by just translation - or equivalently, the fact that there exists an orientation of the two objects where they can be lined up side-by-side with all corresponding points placed exactly the same distance apart. So for your folded hands, this doesn't work as the palms are touching but the knuckles are 2-3 cm apart. Likewise with half a human body, you may get the tips of the nose to coincide, but the shoulders are then half a meter apart. As long as you account for their non-zero thickness, there's no way to line your hands up side-by-side such that all corresponding points are an equivalent distance apart. -- (talk) 20:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

What causes electromagnetic induction?[edit]

I get that the Faraday's law of induction explains what will happen when a magnetic field interacts with an electrical current, but what is the cause of the electromagnetic induction? Couldn't the current flow in the opposite direction? --Noopolo (talk) 17:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Magnetic induction is a fundamental behavior of the universe. We can write lots of mathematics to describe it, but all those equations are just quantitative descriptions of a thing that we see: a change in an electric field causes a corresponding change in a magnetic field. The fact that there is a specific direction is not something we can presently explain - although we can describe it in very great detail. You can read more about this concept at our article: fundamental interaction. If you spend many years studying physics, you can learn how to describe these interactions at many layers of abstraction and at various levels of detail. Nimur (talk) 18:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The right hand rule is so due to the conventions by which people chose + and - for E and B. There's nothing intrinsically positive about positive (sometimes people complain that positive electric fields really ought to be where the electrons are... but really there's no intrinsic reason why the smaller particle should be positive either, so yes, it's arbitrary) Wnt (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I didn't mean why it is represented the way it is, was rather asking about what Nimur explained above.--Noopolo (talk) 00:17, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

How Strong is the Force Which Drives Hubble Flow?[edit]

If I have a small solid object, a coin say, is it expanding with the Universe by an incredibly small amount, or actually by zero? What about if I had a very long pièce of string running to a planet in a distant galaxy? Would it be stretched by Hubble flow? 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:E19D:C1C5:D0B3:F799 (talk) 18:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Do not worry coins do not expand. Ruslik_Zero 20:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
At least, not yet... Wnt (talk) 21:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The hubble flow is relative momentum, not a force. If two objects are moving away from each other, they'll continue to move away unless acted on by some force, such as gravitation (attractive) or the cosmological constant (repulsive). If your coin or string is expanding, it'll continue to expand until something stops it. In the case of the coin or the string it's the electromagnetic binding between the atoms that will stop the expansion, almost immediately in the case of the coin and pretty quickly in the case of the string. If the coin or string is not expanding or contracting, it won't spontaneously start to do so. -- BenRG (talk) 01:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
To reiterate and restate what BenRG has already stated: Hubble Flow (and by extension the metric expansion of space) is not caused by some unknown force currently acting on objects, it is the motion imparted on objects by the Big Bang which has not yet been counteracted by other forces. We know from Newton's first law that objects will not change their relative velocity unless an outside force acts on them. For any sufficiently close objects, from individual galaxies down to you and I, down to individual atoms, there are the four fundamental forces which have long since "canceled out" the effect of the initial motion imparted on them from the Big Bang. However, for sufficiently distance objects, there are not enough forces between the objects to slow them down from their initial push given by the big bang. They're just continuing to drift apart without any additional forces, as the initial "push" they got from the Big Bang has not yet been counteracted by other forces. In simple terms: Hubble Flow represents inertial motion originally imparted by the Big Bang, and is not "caused" by any further forces. --Jayron32 03:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Hubble Flow is just inertia, got it. Are you oversimplifying with your 'forces cancel out' or am I just being naïve when I think that add up all the forces and divide by the mass to get an ever decreasing acceleration and hence an, after all this time, vanishingly small but nonetheless non zero velocity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:E19D:C1C5:D0B3:F799 (talk) 06:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
No, there is a zero relative velocity due to Hubble flow for all sorts of things, really anything galaxy sized or smaller. For example, the you're not flying apart; the electrostatic forces keeping you together means your atoms are not affected by Hubble flow: since the big bang is no longer happening, there's no additional force to make you get bigger. The Milky Way is held together by the gravity of all of the stars in it. The individual stars are not all spreading out due to Hubble flow, the galaxy holds together all on its own by its own gravity, and since the Big Bang still isn't happening now, the Milky Way is a stable structure, it is not expanding itself. It is only when you get on the scale of things larger than galaxy clusters or bigger that you see Hubble Flow in effect. The thing that Hubble noticed (LeMaitre actually. Hubble gets more press than he probably should, but I digress) was that, not only were distant galaxies receding, they were receding faster the further away you got; in other words it appeared that they were accelerating. However, this is also not due to any force, but a complication of the speed of light: the further a galaxy is from us, the greater its speed because it has more of its initial Big Bang-imparted velocity, because we're seeing it at a time when it was closer (temporally) to the Big Bang. Galaxies that are closer to us have been acted on by the gravity of other, nearby, objects for a longer time, so have been decelerated by them. However, eventually matter will get slowed down to the point when it has literally zero velocity left over from the Big Bang. From that point forward, until forever, it will no longer be subject to Hubble Flow. --Jayron32 10:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
That would be true for just inertia from the Big Bang, without an Accelerating universe. Dbfirs 11:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Some of the comments above seem to ignore that the expansion is often described as countering gravity that would pull the cosmos together in a closed universe, and is described as dark energy, quintessence, cosmological constant etc. that exerts 'negative pressure' which, for reasons I still don't really comprehend, seems to mean that it pushes things apart. Wnt (talk) 12:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the explanations seem to be 5 billion years out of date. Dbfirs 13:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
No, you need to be careful on the exact words here. By definition Hubble Flow, and the Metric Expansion of Space, is the inertial movement of matter caused by the Big Bang. There ARE other forces at work, some known about (gravity or electrostatics that holds objects together), and some which are NOT fully explained (all the one's you've mentioned). It's only been since the 1990s or so that we've noticed that the universe is expanding slightly faster than Hubble Flow would predict from the Big Bang, and we call that effect "dark energy" and "cosmological constant" because that sounds much better than "fucked if I know why it's happening", which is what both of those amount to. For the past 20 years or so, we now know (though LeMaitre and Hubble and all the rest did not) that the universe's expansion seems to be accelerating by a very real, but very small amount (the effect is so negligible, that it took that long for our measurements to produce precise enough results to notice it), which is why fudge's like "dark energy" have been introduced. But it's a total fudge: no source of "dark energy" has ever been confirmed, no one can identify what it is or how it works, "dark energy" is then just a code word for "this accelerating expansion thing we've recently noticed by can't explain". --Jayron32 14:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that's correct; the main effect started within 10−32 seconds after the Big Bang. I agree it's quite possible that the "acceleration thing" of the past five billion years is just some kind of illusion, but I've no idea how to explain it. Dbfirs 18:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Inflation doesn't start 10−n seconds after the big bang. I don't know where that (very common) error originated. Inflation erases all evidence of what caused it, so there's no way to know how long it lasted, or what state the universe was in when it started, or how long the universe had already existed at that point. But it seems safe to say that the state before inflation was not big-bang-like, because the whole point of inflation is to explain the observed big-bang expansion, and it would be completely pointless if the universe was already like that before it started. -- BenRG (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I see what you mean, but we have articles on Planck epoch, Grand unification epoch and Electroweak epoch that mention these times which refer to non-inflationary cosmology. Even Inflationary epoch uses the timescale. Would it make any more sense to say "after the theoretical singularity"? Dbfirs 21:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
If the accelerating expansion is really caused by a cosmological constant, then it's just another term in the gravitational force. We've never found a "cause of gravity" either, but we can still claim to understand it pretty well. In any case, the crucial thing is the difference between velocity and acceleration. Aristotle was wrong about moving objects having to be pushed to keep moving, and in a cosmological context he's still wrong. Regardless of the nature of the mysterious acceleration, it's an acceleration, not a "velocitization", and that makes it the same as gravity for this purpose. -- BenRG (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I think I asked a similar question a few years ago. If the universe is expanding, and we are part of it, then why aren't we? If it's all relative, then there should be no perception of the universe's expansion at all. If I am sitting in a room and my TV suddenly starts to get bigger, whilst I also start to get bigger (as well as the rest of the room), then there would be no noticeable change. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 19:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I remember reading a Science Fiction story based on a changing scale (only it was shrinking). In reality, we'd have no way to detect this sort of change unless it was happening only in our region (or unless light was not affected). The whole of science is based on the assumption that this doesn't happen. Dbfirs 20:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Size isn't relative. The density of metallic solids, for example, is set by physical laws. You can't make a coin twice as large with the same number of atoms of the same metals. -- BenRG (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Well it was only a cheap science fiction story -- evidently more fantasy than science since the necessary change in physical constants would presumably have been detectable and would have resulted in different scale changes for different materials. Dbfirs 21:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The only noticeable change I can feel is that I need glasses to see my TV (which incidentally is bigger than it was before), so it may be moving further and further away from me, but maybe that's just because I am getting old, and have a bigger TV......) :) KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 03:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Isn't the only way you could detect the change is to compare the same object with itself at some other point in time or to the CMB itself? (talk) 15:47, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

List of psychological activity, paranormal or psychic phenomena:[edit]

Peeps, can you help me naming some ‘psychological activity’ (thinking, emotions, memory, desires, will…) as well as the so-called ‘paranormal’ or ‘psychic phenomena’ (extrasensory perception, out-of-body experiences…). -- ( (talk) 21:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC))

Have you read our article Paranormal?

--TammyMoet (talk) 13:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

No, I have not. Thanks -- ( (talk) 15:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
The article doesn't meet the requirement. -- ( (talk) 20:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
I'll try to find out where I got the sentence paragraph from. -- ( (talk) 20:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC))

Black Powder vs. Smokeless Powder[edit]

Is it true that smokeless powder has greater energy density while black powder has greater power density? Assuming this is true, if equal amounts of powder were used in a load in a firearm, would the greater power density of black powder give it the same muzzle velocity as smokeless powder? (talk) 22:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Power density is a strange way to put it, but if I read the concept correctly; power is work divided by time. So "power density" would simply be the energy released divided by the time it takes to release it, divided again by the mass of the substance (for the "density" bit. Or maybe the volume. Extrapolating from energy density). What you would want to compare is the Burn rate of smokeless powder versus black powder. This chart compares the burn rates of various propellants, but does not give raw numbers, it only "ranks" them. But what you really need to know is how fast traditional powder burns compared to whatever formulation of smokeless powder you are looking at. Also, be careful here: black powder is basically one thing, but there are dozens upon dozens of different things called "smokeless powders" and they all have different properties. So there may be no way to accurately answer your question without comparing specific powders. --Jayron32 03:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
How does black powder compare to the fastest one on that list. (talk) 03:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Black powder comes in many grain sizes with different burning characteristics. Blackpowder for artillery weapons even used to be made in different grain shapes. Rmhermen (talk) 18:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


Good morning, I am Morelli Luca , the designer and owner of the AEROANDTECH project; I'd like to update the information given with AEROANDTECH page, but each time that I do it, I find the day after again the wrong information. The wrong information are giving us economic problems, so, how can I fix the right information avoiding that someone will change again them?

it is very important, please answer thanks Ing. Morelli Luca — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

The article in question seems to be Aero & Tech Nexth. Alansplodge (talk) 01:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
This looks like a content dispute. The OP needs to use the article talk page to discuss it with other editors. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:06, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Note: This was also asked on the Help desk. Dismas|(talk) 02:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
You're unlikely to be happy about this but...
The thing here is that you imagine yourself (as owner/designer/whatever at the company) as being the 'authoritative' source of information - so you must be right. However that's categorically NOT how Wikipedia works. You have no more standing in writing this article than anyone else who comes the contrary, actually - because you have an active interest in representing both company and product in a good light, you have an inherent conflict of interest and people are likely to view your edits with the deepest suspicion. Our WP:COI guidelines explain this in more detail.
The information that goes into the article must come from a reliable third-party source. Something that our readers can verify. We can't take your word for these things...crazy though that sounds. What you need to do is to present information that's been published in aviation journals, newspapers, places like that. That information is considered "reliable". You can read our guidelines for reliable sources at WP:RS.
This does seem very weird when you, personally, know "the truth" - but you have to consider what would happen if we allowed the owners and employees of businesses to come here and write their own articles. We'd be nothing more than an advertising platform - not a trusted encyclopedia. Because businesses would really, really like only favorable information to be in our articles about them, we simply cannot trust what they tell us directly. So we rely on journalists, book authors and people like that to do research and to provide a somewhat balanced view.
Looked at another way, you wouldn't like it if your competitor were inserting falsehoods about your company into the article either...but if we allowed people to write stuff without reliable sources, that could easily happen. Anyone can create an account here and claim to be anyone they want...they could easily claim to be an 'insider' when they aren't.
The best way to explain this is that Wikipedia editors are not supposed to come up with information themselves - they can only find it in reliable source. This is explained in our guideline about 'original research': WP:NOR.
When I was writing the article about the Mini Cooper - I wanted to write about the top speed of the car in each gear, which I knew because I'd driven my Mini on a track and measured the flat-out speed myself with GPS and a trackside radar gun. However, even though I knew the number for a fact - I had to find an automotive magazine that reviewed the car and use that as a reference. SteveBaker (talk) 03:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Note that what you can do is add a link to your own website, if there isn't already one, in the "External links" section at the bottom. And on your own web site you can, of course, put as positive spin on your products as you want. StuRat (talk) 13:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
That link has been there since April 1012 when the article was first that's clearly not enough for our OP. The latest revision of the article is heavily reliant on a single reference in the "World Directory of Leisure Aviation". From Wikipedia's perspective, that's probably a reasonable source of information...but we do refer to the manufacturers site in two other references.
In an ideal world, our OP would be telling us of a bunch of other places where the aircraft is discussed/reviewed/etc so we may broaden our base of references beyond one WP:RS and two WP:COI sources. Doubtless employees of the company would have a good knowledge of where their product had been written about. SteveBaker (talk) 19:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Wow, that link has been there over a thousand years ? Impressive ! StuRat (talk) 04:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It was brought from France to England by William the Concurrer. It started out as chain mail. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:44, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

What is the simplest fatty acid?[edit] (talk) 01:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

We don't normally answer homework questions. However, we do have excellent articles on fatty acids and on carboxylic acids in general. I suggest you read them, and, if you have any further questions, please ask them here. Dr Dima (talk) 01:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Body Odour[edit]

Do children aged 3/4 have body odours? The disgusting smell that puts others off? -- ( (talk) 07:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC))

Here are some links that may help you research the answer to your question. --Jayron32 10:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
One source of a foul odor is young children is phenylketonuria. StuRat (talk) 13:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't trust any other links rather than Wikipedia's and Wikipdians. Body Odour article stated about 'puberty', 'ovulation', diseases, and lifestyle related things. I'm curious whether a general scent is available in children, especially the arm pit smell. -- ( (talk) 15:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
If you don't trust anything except Wikipedia, I'm not sure what we can do for you. I've provided you with lots of reading material on the matter, if you can't be bothered to read it, then there's nothing else anyone here can do for you. You already know how to find the Wikipedia article on the subject, and note that the Wikipedia article does not answer your problem. I provided additional sources, and you said you can't be bothered to read through them to find information you can trust. Good luck and vaya con dios... --Jayron32 15:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Confused.png I said 'I don't trust any other links rather than Wikipedia's and Wikipdians'. I didn't say, "I can't be bothered to read through the information (help) you provided". Another reason behind this is, I have to attribute the links appropriately, in most cases they don't allow to retrieve information from their site... Anyways, thank you for your help. Face-sad.svg -- ( (talk) 15:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
I don't really understand what you mean "I have to attribute the links appropriately, in most cases they don't allow to retrieve information from their site". If you mean you're writing this for somewhere and need to cite sources, be aware that many things will not accept even wikipedia itself as a good source, and definitely very few will accept something some random wikipedian said as a source. And any thing which is so loose with their sourcing requirements that they do accept stuff some random wikipedian said would likely accept most of those as sources too and it shouldn't be that hard to work out how to cite them (and you could always ask if you really have problems.). If you mean you have problems accessing other sources, some explaination of this when asking the question, would help a great deal. Most of the links in the Google search result are just to ordinary web resources like help sites, and also some forums and other such stuff. They aren't to journal articles or anything likely to behind a paywall. And they also don't seem to be particularly controversial. So you'd need to be behind a very, very restrictive internet connection if you can't access them. Nil Einne (talk) 17:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The OP is difficult to understand, but I think he means "I only trust external links provided to me in Wikipedia articles or by Wikipedians here, as opposed to those I find in a Google search". StuRat (talk) 17:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
OR and not quite what the OP was asking, but children of that age have natural non-pathogenic body odours which they do not find offensive and by which they can recognise each other. This ability tend to be abandoned early because of social pressure from adults. Dbfirs 18:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
That seemed to be said in the OP's first point. Since they said it was "another reason", I presume the second was intended to cover a different reason. Nil Einne (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@Nil Einne, StuRat, Dbfirs: Ammm, you baffled me Nil Einne! Anyways, I'm on 'pay kilobyte as you go' price plan, the only price plan available in this country. Its almost the end of the month, I'm on about less than 250 Mb, I got to cover it till to 7th of next month (unsure). Wikipedia is my school/college/university, the only website that doesn't take megabytes as you enter... Other websites (some/most) restrict picking information off of their website; whatever I've come across so far, whenever I tried to retrieve... What put me off of looking at other websites... A Wikipedian taught me a golden rule, still they advised to provide the links of the websites I collect information off, and whatever I've put my finger on, so far, is a copyrighted material, which does not allow me to copy my way even if I provide their link in my work. I only trust Wikipedia's articles (I don't have a choice). Its like an e-Bible to me. The ones who help me all the time or the 'Reference desk', its like angelic desk for me, where angels assist me (lol)! Of course demons are available, but I have not come across any yet. You guys might have since you (and most, even WP) thinks WP is not a reliable source
Hello Dbfirs, think of it as children sitting in 'airtight dry atmospheric room', obviously they will sweat and smell. I understand the armpit smell which may begin in puberty, what can I use to explain 'the airtight dry atmospheric rooms children smell'? How can I say, "The body odour, the scent of human being (children) was unpleasant because of ________________________________?"
You give me jokes Do my words/sentences/paragraphs seriously come across like a 'broken type writer' work? I do put my heart into making sense of my words/sentences/paragraphs you know, not joking at all...
Thanks for offering the helping hand Nil (like some) Face-smile.svg
( (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
It was a bit hard to understand which links you trust and which you don't. Back to the question, I recently had the misfortune to sit next to a young kid in a restaurant, who smelled like mildew. It might have been his clothes or coat. Then again, if he used a towel full of mildew, say to dry his hair, then he might smell that way, too. I blame his parents for not washing his clothes or towel with bleach, to kill the mildew. StuRat (talk) 04:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Could use it; I was expecting a general word that will provide the understanding of the complete dry indoor suffocating environment. Thanks though Face-smile.svg -- ( (talk) 17:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC))

Name that med[edit]

I saw a TV ad recently for a med, and I didn't catch the name of the med or what it was for. It causes increased urination, and one of the side effects is urinary tract infections, since the urine contains more sugar than normal. (Perhaps it was to treat diabetes ?) Anyone know the name ? I would like to read Wikipedia's article, if we have one, or an outside source, otherwise. StuRat (talk) 13:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Yep, that's it. Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 18:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Is formic acid a fatty acid?[edit]

This is mostly an issue of nomenclature, but the question above about fatty acids got me a bit confused. Fatty acid says "fatty acid a carboxylic acid with a long aliphatic tail" (emphasis mine). But formic acid shows up in Short-chain_fatty_acid, as it has "aliphatic tails of less than six carbons". So, I suppose a "tail" with zero carbons is also a tail with less than six carbons (and apparently a zero-length tail is aliphatic), but it seems odd or wrong to say that formic acid has a "long aliphatic tail." "Fatty acid" does not appear on the formic acid article. I would hope that all short-chain fatty acids are indeed fatty acids. Acetic acid actually seems to imply that it is not a fatty acid (in the biochemsistry section), but at least it has one whole carbon on the "tail", that seems to qualify as truly aliphatic... I can see making the call either way, but I'm curious of what the actual usage is. If the usage is slightly contradictory, or different definitions require different tail lengths, that's fine too. Additionally, does anyone think that perhaps the list at short-chain fatty acids should be changed (or amended and clarified)?

Thanks, SemanticMantis talk) 16:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if there is any "official" definition of a fatty acid; IUPAC, generally considered the authority on chemical nomenclature, has a vague definition here:
Having worked in chemistry for 20 years, I can confidently say that no chemist would ever describe formic acid as a fatty acid. I would definitely support removing formic and acetic acids from any list of fatty acids, even short chain fatty acids. Propionic acid should probably go too. -- Ed (Edgar181) 21:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! That is what I expected; I have posted on the talk page for short-chain fatty acid with a link back to here [14]. If I don't get any feedback within a few days I will remove formic and acetic acid from the list at the short-chain article. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@Edgar181, SemanticMantis: Nonetheless, there are many such uses in PubMed ( ) [15][16][17] etc. One thing about biology (and the "fat" in fatty acids makes people assert this as under its province) is that anyone writing a paper or giving a lecture can get up and define a term like "fatty acid" in the way that pleases him best for purposes of his work, and there's nothing you can do about it. :) Though there's no fat in the short chain fatty acid, there actually is some sense in it though, in the sense that a fatty acid minus two carbons = a fatty acid. Wnt (talk) 04:04, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, that's not too surprising either, thanks. I don't really care one way or the other, but I think our articles could represent the multiple definitions/aribitrariness a little better. Maybe I'll just put an asterisk in the article, explaining that inclusion of some acids as "fatty acids" is context-dependent. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Surely there has to be some name for "saturated monocarboxylic acid where everything else is a hydrocarbon", doesn't there? Just like methane is a paraffin even though you can't make wax out if it? Formic, acetic, propionic, butyric, valeric, caproic — you can't make fats out of all of them, but they're all the same class, and if they're not "fatty acids", what are you going to call them? --Trovatore (talk) 15:19, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Not all groupings or categories have special single-word names though, right? What's wrong with "saturated monocarboxylic acid"? Are those compounds often discussed as a group? I mean, we don't have a special word for finite alternating groups with an even number of elements either, but we can just describe them if we want to single them out. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, I think traditionally they have been discussed systematically. You have the paraffins, their alcohols, their aldehydes, their acids. They make a nice rubric. I think this is the way it was done in my dad's chem texts, anyway (from the forties). Fashion may have changed since then for all I know. --Trovatore (talk) 17:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
By definition, lipids are biomolecules more soluble in non-polar solvents than water (that is, they are hydrophobic. Small-chain carboxylic acids are decidedly hydrophilic. If I am not mistaken, the largest carboxylic acid which is soluble in water to any reasonable degree is valeric acid; that provides what is probably a reasonable limit for the size of "fatty" acids (given that "fats" are hydrophobic). --Jayron32 04:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I am certainly not claiming that formic acid is in any ordinary sense "fatty". However, I do believe it is part of a systematic grouping that has traditionally been called the "fatty acids", if only for want of a better name. --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Fat may be hydrophobic, but I don't think of that as its defining feature. If I were to make up a definition from scratch, I would say it depends on whether the molecule is a substrate for beta oxidation. At least in the textbook instance, this would exclude propionic acid, acetic acid, and formic acid, but not valeric acid. However, one could just as logically define it according to products of beta oxidation, in which case the former two would still be within the definition. But that's all really quite arbitrary, and of course we're not actually supposed to make up an answer. :) Wnt (talk) 13:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps you should think less, than, if you think it isn't the defining feature. See here. A selection of definitions "Lipid - any of a class of organic compounds that are fatty acids or their derivatives and are insoluble in water but soluble in organic solvents.", "Lipid - "Any of a large group of organic compounds that are oily to the touch and insoluble in water", "A lipid is chemically defined as a substance that is insoluble in water and soluble in alcohol, ether, and chloroform." , "Lipid - any of a group of organic compounds consisting of the fats and other substances of similar properties: they are insoluble in water, soluble in fat solvents and ..." So, before you go one with what you think, perhaps you should actually read and cite references which tell you what you should think. The defining characteristic of all lipids (including subclasses of lipids like fats and fatty acids) is hydrophobicity. --Jayron32 21:16, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
@Jayron32: I started off with references; you're the one who started the diversion into logical arguments. But people can write dictionaries however they want, and they don't have to be logically consistent either. Valeric acid, which you established as water-soluble as our article says, is described by Merriam-Webster as "any of four isomeric fatty acids C5H10O2 or a mixture of these" Indeed, they describe propionic acid the same way. [18] But not acetic acid. Which proves what, I'm not sure, but when article writing you can use this as a reference for something. (However, I don't dispute that "lipid" is hydrophobic because it was generally defined in terms of what you can isolate by extracting the hydrophobic components of a cell. Lipid, fat, and fatty acid may all have different meanings.) Wnt (talk) 22:16, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
People can write dictionaries however they want, but at least they are reliable according to Wikipedia's standards. It's OK to provide references which support a certain view. It isn't OK to discount other references which support a view you don't like, as you do here. Look, valeric acid and propionic acid, and acetic and formic can all be fatty acids if they want to be. And if they don't wish to be fatty acids, I'm not going to object either. But as I've been trying to say all along, the definition is not clear-cut and simple: there is no hard-and-fast line for carboxylic acids which says that some of them are fatty acids and some are not. The entire set of them is a homologous series, and their properties vary gradually and continuously, with no clear dividing line. My only point is that: There is no clear line, but we at least can point to what are long-standing and well-accepted, and well referenced definitions of "fat" "lipid" and "fatty acid" and let the reader decide for themselves. I don't know what your goal is, but my goal is to provide as many different perspectives as possible and let people understand the complexity and subtlety of such definitions, not to call others wrong. --Jayron32 01:38, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

IUCN Red List for plants[edit]

The IUCN Red List article makes it sound as if plants are rated. Lots of animal species have their Red List status near the top of the infobox (see Pygmy hippopotamus for an example), but I'm not seeing a comparable thing in plant articles, whether common things like tomato, somewhat-known things like deadly nightshade, or rare things like Galium divaricatum. Is this simply an editorial decision (i.e. it was decided not to give Red List information for plants), or is this because the rankings given for animals somehow aren't available and/or aren't relevant for plants? Nyttend (talk) 17:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The Red List lists plants, you can read about it on their web site [19]. (As an aside, I can't get their search feature to work - is it just me or is the site broken?)
Here's a some random plant articles I found that do have conservation status in the taxobox - Asplenium_bifrons, Aschisma_kansanum. So we know that the taxobox can take conservation status data, just like animals can.
So I'm not sure why more plants don't have status listed. I don't think it's due to either of your suggestions. In popular culture, threatened plants get way less attention than endangered animals. Many endangered animals don't even get much attention - we hear about Charismatic_megafauna, but much less so endangered mosquitoes. There are also very few plants considered Flagship_species. So it might just be unintentional animal bias creeping in. We do have pages like IUCN_Red_List_data_deficient_species_(Plantae) IUCN_Red_List_vulnerable_species_(Plantae), and a few other similar lists (that really should be cross-linked under "see also," IMO). Maybe there's a drive at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biology to rectify this, or perhaps we could start one :) SemanticMantis (talk) 18:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I've added notices at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biology and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life asking participants to go to Template talk:Taxobox, where I've proposed adding a maintenance category to all taxoboxes that don't mention IUCN Red List status. The point's to identify articles where we haven't addressed Red List status; it's not meant for Data Deficient and any other status (if there are any?) where we can't supply information, since I'm trying to identify ones where Wikipedia effort, not scholarly effort, is missing. Nyttend (talk) 18:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
WP:PLANTS would probably be the best place to add a note. I always assumed that most plants aren't rated - after all, someone has to do the work to rate a species. And sort out the nomenclature. Since it's pretty much impossible to generate a list of all plant species, I can't see how anyone can rate all of them. Guettarda (talk) 05:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

History of ocean going ships late 1800s - early 1900s[edit]

Does anyone know where I could find some systematic information on the history of ocean going ships during the late 1800s to the early 1900s, say roughly 1880 to 1930? I am primarily interested in knowing how the characteristics of ocean going vessels evolved during this time in terms of parameters such as size, weight, speed, means of propulsion, and choice of construction materials (e.g. metal / wood). Ideally, I would be looking for something that talks about the characteristics of the mean (or median, etc.) ship over time. However, given the difficulties in obtaining good data from that era, I would take whatever I can get. In broad strokes, at the very least, I'd like to be able to say whether this was either A) a period of very little change in ship construction, B) a period of rapid innovation in ship construction, or C) something in between. Dragons flight (talk) 21:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I cannot point to what you want, though I'm sure it exists in a Jane' Ships or Lloyds list sort of way. I can give you Turbinia, Dreadnought and Ship gun fire-control system which all yell B. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Age of sail indicates refinement and development - "between 1850 and the early 1900s when sailing vessels reached their peak of size and complexity," but the ref for that sentence has link rotted. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Matthew Turner (shipbuilder) should give you an idea about innovations in design in ocean going sailing vessels for some of that period, at least in the Pacific. Mikenorton (talk) 22:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Are you interested in ships in general, in military ships, or in civilian ships? My go-to book is Björn Landström's The Ship. The field saw massive development during the period you mention. HMS Devastation (1871) launched in 1871, the first modern turreted warship without backup sails. HMS Royal Sovereign in 1891 had 1.5 times the tonnage, twice the crew complement, and was build from streel, not iron. 1906 saw HMS Dreadnought, "obsoleting all existing battleships at the time", with 2.5 times the firepower of the latest Pre-dreadnoughts and turbines instead of reciprocating steam engines. Dreadnought was itself obsolete by the time of WW1, which saw the Queen Elizabeth-class battleship, bigger, better, and switching from coal to oil as the main fuel. The next major steps were geared turbines, and then radar. In 1930, arguably the decline of the battleship had begun, with aircraft carriers and U-boats taking over. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Specifically I care about ships that were used in the systematic collection of weather data. That includes both military and civilian vessels, but probably skews more towards the civilian side in terms of numbers. Dragons flight (talk) 01:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
NOAA History - Tools of the Trade (Ships) has lots of information dating back to NOAA's predecessor Federal agency, the United States Survey of the Coast. You might also find U.S. Coast Guard and Navy history websites worthwhile. Systematic large-scale weather collection, however, is very new - it really took its present scientific form after the rise of aviation and probably didn't standardize until circa World War II. More on that: Weather Technology. Bit of Meteorological History (which has extensive information on the 19th and early 20th century) suggests that in the Civil War era and Reconstruction era, the Smithsonian Institute collected weather information, including maritime and seacoast data, for the Federal government. You can buy historical ship plans from SI: $20 just for the catalog - so those won't be cheap, but they probably rank among the most thorough historical resource available for a large number of vessels. The Navy also has historical records of every vessel ever contracted, with particularly thorough records for 1892 to 1945. NARA has extensive maritime records, including the Lighthouse Service and weather archives.
One tidbit at the Navy's website got to me: they have a free book-length guide called Professional Readings in U.S. Navy History, which is the introduction to the vast research resources available; and they recommend you visit various offices in person to talk to historians. In other words, you might go far by asking a real historian - rather than just talking to a bunch of scientists who are interested in history. Nimur (talk) 07:11, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That's the most interesting period of development for battleships, a great introduction is the DK Brown book "Warrior to Dreadnought". It's also when Froude got to grips with hull shapes. Greglocock (talk) 00:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

January 30[edit]

Snow by country[edit]

Besides Canada and US and Russia, which other nations received snow for their winter season? Please tell me the names, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Define just what you mean by "received snow for their winter season". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
(ec) Would be much easier to list the countries which never have snow. Nearly every country has snow in one part of its territory, at least on one mountain. Lgriot (talk) 03:19, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Just for example, to back up what Lgriot says, it snows on Mount Kilimanjaro, which is only 3 degrees latitude from the equator. While I wouldn't be so certain as to say it snows in every country on Earth, it is true that it snows at just about any latitude, given the likelihood of finding a high enough elevation there. --Jayron32 04:03, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Seasons from space
The image at right should help see where snow is common enough to be easily visible from space. Dragons flight (talk) 03:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Seems odd there is so little snow shown south of the equator (other than Antarctica). StuRat (talk) 15:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I suspect this is simply because there is much less land at high southern latitudes than high northern ones. --Trovatore (talk) 15:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but I would have expected more snow, where there is land, such as South America, which only appears to have snow in the Andes, even in parts quite close to Antarctica. That must be the Patagonian Desert. Perhaps the Q should be reversed: Why aren't there major deserts in the arctic ? StuRat (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The seasonal temperature difference between winter and summer is much more extreme over large land areas than over the oceans. Because they are typically farther from the moderating influence of the ocean, continental interiors in the North experience much larger seasonal temperature variations [20]. By contrast, the bulk of South Africa and Australia only rarely fall below 0 C [21], which limits the formation of snow. Dragons flight (talk) 19:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
See also another map showing countries receiving snowfall (with further distinctions) and this user sandbox thingy listing countries (including almost 80 countries without snowfall in modern times). ---Sluzzelin talk 03:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That is quite misleading in relation to Australia. True, snow rarely falls in the capital cities, but there are areas outside where snow is a regular winter occurrence and our snow resorts have a long history. See Category:Ski areas and resorts in Australia. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 04:26, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
There is little snow in countries south of the equator because most of the world's land is in the Northern Hemisphere, and because most of the world's countries that are in the Southern Hemisphere are tropical or subtropical. Southern countries that do get snow include Argentina, Chile, and New Zealand, and there is high-altitude snow in the mountains of Africa and in the Andes. As to Antarctica (not a country, but for many purposes listed among countries), it doesn't get that much snow either. It is just that snow that falls in Antarctica doesn't melt. I still don't understand the OP's question, but maybe he got his answer. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
To add to Robert's answer: The amount of snowfall does not simply increase with latitude. The atmospheric circulation is donimated, on the global scale, by three pairs of convection cells. Atmospheric currents in these cells produce heavy rainfall near the equator (a belt of equatorial rainforests around the Earth), flanked by two arid belts - one north of the equator and one south of the equator, around 20-30 degrees latitude (both N and S). Even further from the equator, again, there is a belt of increased rain- and snowfall, mostly around 50-70 degrees latitude (N and S). Finally, the N and S poles get relatively little snowfall. Thus, the most snowfall is expected around 60 degrees latitude, N and S. However, it so happens that there is relatively a lot of landmass between 50 and 70 degrees N, but relatively little landmass between 50 and 70 degrees S, as Trovatore already mentioned. Dr Dima (talk) 19:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Brings up an interesting question — how much snow falls on the ocean? --Trovatore (talk) 20:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you count snow that falls on the ice caps ice shelves that aren't over land? For the record marine snow is not helpful in answering your question :) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, Stanley, Falkland Islands / Islas Malvinas (51°41′S 57°51′W) receives 608 mm of precipitation a year, which is pretty average for a temperate climate (from google: Paris 585, Moscow 689, St Petersburg 633, etc.); however, prevailing winds there (in Stanley) are from the west, so it is covered to some extent by the rain-shadow of the South American mainland. Kerguelen, which is far from any mainland, receives 709 mm. I do not know how much of it is rain and how much of it is snow, however. (talk) 22:36, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
"Snow does fall, but it is temporary and does not settle for long" (from Climate of the Falkland Islands). In reference to StuRat's queries about snow in the Southern Hemisphere, Stanley is only as far south as London is north (both 51°); we had no snow at all in London last year and only a few flurries so far this winter. The southernmost city in the world is Punta Arenas (53°S) in Chile, which is on a par with Dublin or Hamburg, both 53°N. Alansplodge (talk) 02:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
It should be noted that latitude alone is not enough to determine climate. Boston is at 42oN, and very snowy. Prevailing wind patterns and locations of major landforms and ocean currents have a LOT more to do with climate than latitude alone. --Jayron32 04:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Ideal computation[edit]

Considering Landauer's principle is a function of temperature, and assuming we wanted to put in the energy to cool a computer asymptotically down to absolute zero, would it be possible to achieve exponentially higher rates of computation as the working temperature approaches absolute zero (and thus make the energy spent cooling worth the effort)? Would Bremermann's limit be the sole limiting factor in this case? Googol30 (talk) 04:57, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Suppose you keep boosting the operating frequency to achieve more calculations per unit time. Long before you hit these thermodynamic limitations, you will find that you cannot build a switch - let alone a complex array of interconnected switches connected as logic gates that reliably operate as a digital computer. To analyze the performance of a switch, you need to study its gain–bandwidth product, which can be considered a limitation derived from first principles of physics. Nimur (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


Sometimes I drop an ice cube on the carpet in a warm (21C) room. I leave it there and it finally disappears. The carpet is not wet. Isnt that sublime?-- (talk) 19:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Not enough information. The carpet may wick away the moisture so efficiently that it does not feel wet. Also, the relative humidity in your climes is unlikely to be dry enough for sublimation at those temperatures. Try doing it on a plate on the floor.--Aspro (talk) 20:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Sublimation means it goes directly from frozen to vapor, without ever becoming liquid. I'd bet that if you looked at the spot 10 minutes after the ice cube was dropped, you would find it was quite wet. So, you have melting followed by evaporation, as opposed to sublimation. StuRat (talk) 21:19, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
See Water_(data_page)#Phase_diagram. Sublimation cannot occur meaningfully above 0oC at room pressure. Ice will slowly sublime below freezing in a process akin to below-boiling evaporation (of the course of many days or months) however, above 0, it will melt first. --Jayron32 03:54, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Only partially because the ice cube sublimates constantly but also melts and the meltwater evaporates. If you did it in your freezer with has a temperature of -20°C and the ice cube disappears, then you can say that it sublimated. But on 21°C it melts for the most part before it evaporates and just a very little part of the cube sublimates.--Calviin 19 (talk) 11:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
And the sublimation is many times slower than the melting process.--Calviin 19 (talk) 11:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
When I said "of the course of many days or months" I am sorry that was unclear. What I meant by that was "of the course of many days or months". I hope that clears things up. --Jayron32 21:07, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Was no over intended anywhere there? Nil Einne (talk) 23:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]

Fiber-spinning machine for carbon nanotubes[edit]

Hi there!
What's a fiber-spinning machine and how is it like which is used for creating carbon fibers with carbon nanotubes?
Thank you very much for your help!
Calviin 19 (talk) 11:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Here's a link that I think that you'll find useful, more generally look at spinning (textiles). Mikenorton (talk) 11:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
But is it self-assembly?--Calviin 19 (talk) 11:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I have that from this paragraph: In 2003, Rice University researchers led by Richard Smalley made the first carbon nanotube fibers by running a liquid suspension of nanotubes through a fiber-spinning machine of the same type used to make commercial polymer fibers like DuPont’s Kevlar and Twaron, which is made by Teijin Aramid. The rationale was that the nanotubes would flow through the liquid and line up with one another like logs floating on a river. This alignment should make the fiber stronger and more conductive. However, the properties of these early fibers were not very good, says Matteo Pasquali, who now leads the nanotube fiber project at Rice. While other groups turned to making nanotube sheets and fibers from dry materials, the Rice group stuck with its method.--Calviin 19 (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure that I've understood the whole paragraph (I'm not an english speaker, I've only started to learn it with the age of twelfe and I'm eighteen years old now.).--Calviin 19 (talk) 11:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
This link doesn't exist.--Calviin 19 (talk) 12:57, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
See Spinning (polymers), synthetic fibre, and Carbon (fibre) for the relevant articles, although our coverage of this subject isn't as good as it could be. Mikenorton's link seems to work here, and gives a reasonable introduction to the subject - are you behind a firewall? Tevildo (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
When I click the link, the error 404 appears and it's said that the page isn't found.--Calviin 19 (talk) 16:49, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I take it you're referring to Mikenorth's original link, not your link which is a 404 link and so it always likely to show a 404. Anyway perhaps try this Webcitation archive of the CSIRO link [22]. Nil Einne (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
The last link of the page still doesn't work.--Calviin 19 (talk) 17:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Try this direct link. There isn't much useful content on that page, I'm afraid. Tevildo (talk) 20:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

About Binding antibody[edit]

Hi all,
This article is up for speedy deletion. Many G-hits. The science is all number-y (I will refrain from linking "Dyscalculia") and thus beyond my understanding.
What should be done with this article? Delete? Redirect? Keep and improve?
--Shirt58 (talk) 11:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

See WP:DICDEF for a deletion rationale, although this is more appropriate for any subsequent AfD - redirecting to Antibody seems like a reasonable course to take. Blocking antibody probably should go, as well. Tevildo (talk) 18:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

What is a good algebra textbook with lots of real-life examples?[edit]

I want a linear algebra book, which is rigorous but with lots of scientific or applied science examples .--Senteni (talk) 14:44, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

If you're looking for beginner texts, I'd take a look at the Schaum's Outline series of books: they're generally clearly written and well presented, and have lots of examples. While I can't recommend a specific book, they seem to have lots of books on linear algebra, one of which might fit your needs, and sellers like Google Books and Amazon often have book previews that might let you check this before buying.
If you're looking for much deeper insight, I'd definitely recommend Theodore Frankel's The Geometry of Physics (ISBN 9781107602601, publisher's website with preview), which discusses linear algebra (eg. tensors, differential forms) as a tiny subset of its overall treatment of geometric matters in physics, with lots of examples of the relevance of the maths to physics. But it's much more hardcore than the Schaum books, and I don't recommend reading it if you're not already quite comfortable with the topic at an informal level. -- The Anome (talk) 14:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, perhaps you should take this to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Mathematics, where the real mathematicians live... -- The Anome (talk) 16:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
The real mathematicians seem to prefer unreal examples, the more abstract the better, not really caring if something describes a real-world phenomenon, or is just a beautiful structure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Senteni (talkcontribs)
Then Frankel's the book for you: but I should let you know it's quite hard going, presupposes at least undergraduate applied mathematics, takes you into a lot of quite advanced modern mathematical physics, and linear algebra is only a tiny part of it. It's also quite costly, so I'd check it out at the library, or at least read the sample chapter online at the publisher's website, before considering buying it. -- The Anome (talk) 04:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Infertility and safe sex[edit]

I'm honestly not seeking a medical advice, nor I was asked for, just curious: if a man and/or a woman is infertile, can they reject safe sex (assuming both are healthy, i.e. with no sexually transmitted diseases)? (talk) 14:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Safe sex is about avoiding disease transmission. Contraception is about preventing pregnancy. Guettarda (talk) 15:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
(EC) Your questions is fairly unclear or you seem to be confusing seperate issues.
Firstly safe sex is all to do with STIs. When a man and woman are involved, safe/r sex will also generally provide a fair level of contraception in cases where it matter, but that's more a side effect and isn't actually part of the safer sex component.
If a couple are in a monogamous relationship, don't have STIs considered worth worrying about and don't have behaviour which may risk transmiting STIs via other means (like intravenous drug use), then safer sex may not be needed, although some would recommend it anyway since there is always the risk the other partner may violate the expectations of the relationship (whether it's having sex or other risky behaviour). Note it's also important that there is some confidence in the belief they don't have STIs (i.e. an STI check sufficiently after the person stopped any risky behaviour), the easily noticable effects of STIs (particularly HIV) will often only show up long after the person is infectious. So saying someone is 'healthy' is confusing, a person with HIV even without any treatement may be 'healthy' for a fair while.
Whether that couple want to use contraception will depend on personal factors i.e. how much they want to avoid the possibility of pregnancy. As said, it's seperate from the safer sex issue. When safer sex is recommended, it's recommend in cases even where the risk of pregnancy is low (like male-female anal sex or oral sex) or non existant (like any form of same sex contact). In fact, it's particularly recommended for anal sex (although the risk is high enough for vaginal sex that it's universally recommended there too in cases where you can't have sufficient confidence neither partner has an STI).
While as stated, safer sex will function as a form of contraception (in the case of vaginal intercourse, condoms would be the normal), the failure rate with imperfect use is high enough that many would recommend an additional form if it really matters. Note also a couple may choose forms of contraception which provide little protection against STIs (so aren't a part of safer sex) but are sufficient for their contraptive goals, perhaps higher than condoms alone.
Finally even with professionally confirmed infertility, it's possible contraception may still be recommended (if the couple really want to avoid pregnancy), as infertility isn't a binary. Okay technically it may be more accurate to call it subfertility, but a lot of time when people mention infertility they may mean subfertility. (It may be the infertility combined with condoms is likely to give a low enough chance of pregnancy that additional contraception isn't needed.)
TLDR; whether or not a couple want to use contraception is a seperate issue from whether or not they should practice safer sex even if the social issues which give rise to one may often also give rise to the other, and one of them (safer sex) gives some level of the other (contraception). If pregnancy isn't desired, the chance of pregnancy may still be high enough when there is some level infertility or subfertility that contraception would be recommended.
Nil Einne (talk) 15:33, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Electrolyte problems and constipation[edit]

  1. Is constipation in mammals linked to any mineral deficiencies (except Magnesium)?
  2. can excessive amounts of salts also cause constipation?

Ben-Natan (talk) 18:29, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Idea of space elevator[edit]

Hi there!
Who were the first people who have thought about the space elevator? Jules Verne has mentioned it in one of his books, but in which one? Constantin Tsiolkovski has definitely not been the first person (in 1895) of having thought about the space elevator.
Thank you very much for your help!
Calviin 19 (talk) 18:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't recall any space elevators in any Jules Verne book I ever read... the most plausible candidate would be From the Earth to the Moon, but in that work of fiction, the Gun Club spaceflight used a large piece of artillery to fire a hollow shell with people inside - not an elevator! Nimur (talk) 20:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Note that a space elevator is under tension. A space tower is compression structure. What Verne book are you referring to? -- ToE 20:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
From the Earth to the Moon is (arguably) the first SF story to propose a plausible method of travelling to the moon, without using magic or cavorite or similar dei ex machina. See History of science fiction and Moon in fiction#Science fiction. Tevildo (talk) 20:37, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Surely you've forgotten the very plausible Adventures of Domingo Gonsales (c. 1638), in which our astronaut ties himself to several very large migratory geese who summer in Saint Helena and winter on the moon? Nimur (talk) 20:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Term for an F2-only heterozygous phenotype?[edit]

Is there any term for a heterozygous phenotype of two codominant alleles which cannot be produced as a monohybrid cross, but can arise in a dihybrid cross with a third allele on each side? In other words, is there a term for the type AB in a situation where AA × BB is impossible, and AA × BC either is impossible or is always AC, but AC × BC and/or AC × BD is sometimes AB? (The inspiration for this question, in case anyone's wondering, is the breeding mechanic in the Social Point game Monster Legends.NeonMerlin 21:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Balanced lethal. D'oh, can't believe that's a redlink but it's mentioned here. It's really important for routine Drosophila stock maintenance. Wnt (talk) 22:20, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


Came across this Q-Spoil article in the orphanage, it has no sources and I can't find any reference to the term via Google, anyone know if such a thing exists?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Vrac (talkcontribs)

I can't find anything. WP:PROD may be appropriate to use here: Tagging it for prod would give anyone who cares time to fix it up, but if no one is caring about it, then it can be deleted. --Jayron32 02:05, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Cheers, prod it is. Vrac (talk) 02:30, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
It's definately a thing, though I cannot judge its notability: [23] [24] [25]. I suspect, from the third link, that it may be a particular application of the Kerr effect. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:43, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The PR encyclopedia of laser techniques doesn't mention "q-spoil", and Google searches turn up zero relevant hits. There is a thing called the "Q-factor" of a laser, and a technique for producing short pulses called Q-switching (both of which we have articles about). So I'm kinda suspicious that this is way, way too obscure for an article. With no references whatever, no other articles linking to it, and after languishing for 8 years with essentially zero improvement having been done on it - this article shouldn't be here. If it's a real thing then a line can be written about it in some other article. SteveBaker (talk) 03:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

evolution of bacteria and washing[edit]

Apart from evolution of bacteria to resist our antibiotics, has there been any detected evolution to resist being washed off by water or by soap and water from human skin? Or maybe evolution to appear "less dirty", give less of a "sticky sensation" on skin? Is this kind of evolution expected to happen by scientists? Thanks. Rich (talk) 04:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Washing them off should put less evolutionary pressure on them to adapt, since presumably they survive either way. So there's no effect that those that manage to stick to the hands are more likely to survive and pass on those genes. StuRat (talk) 06:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Incandescent light bulb history[edit]

Just watched the PBS show on Thomas Edison, and I have a question. The incandescent light bulb was eventually perfected by using a thin tungsten filament and evacuating the bulb of air. Before that, light bulbs would burn out in a few minutes. But, it seems to me, that another approach would have been to just use a thicker filament. After all, electrical resistance space heaters manage to produce a red glow with exposed wire coils. They do use a fan, but is that required to keep them from burning out quickly ? I'd think a bit less electricity and no fan would keep it red hot, but no hotter, so the wires would last. Now, admittedly red light isn't ideal, and all the excess heat would be annoying in summer, but perhaps quite welcome in winter. When compared with the poor choices available before Edison took on the light bulb, it seems to me that my approach would have been a welcome alternative to gas lights, for indoor lighting. StuRat (talk) 06:08, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually the tungsten filament represented the second generation of light bulb, allowing higher temperatures and therefore whiter light. As you will see at the Edison article you linked, Edison's bulbs that lasted for over 1,000 hours had carbon-based filaments. -- (talk) 10:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I was brought up in gaslight, supplemented by paraffin lamps, before electricity reached the area where I was born, and I can assure you that it was far superior to the dull red glow from an electric filament in air. It is easier to read by firelight than by (exposed filament) electric heater light. Dbfirs 07:20, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


January 25[edit]

Factorization of \sum_{n=0}^M~(-1)^n~n^k[edit]

For k ≥ 2 and even values of M = 2N we have


For k ≥ 2 and odd values of M = 2N + 1 we have


where Pk and Qk are polynomials of degree k - 2 in N. My conjecture, based on computer aided verification for all values of k\le10^3, is that Pk and Qk are irreducible over the rationals. What are your opinions on the subject, and how might one prove (or disprove) such a conjecture ? Is there any literature or research on this particular topic ? Thank you. — (talk) 11:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know about irreducibility, but the polynomials seem to be closely related to the Euler polynomials; see Faulhaber's formula for a possible explanation. --RDBury (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
One can express them easily as the difference of two of those Faulhaber's formulae, for instance leaving out the N=0 case we get  F_{2N}(k) - 2^{1+k}F_N(k) for the first one where F_p(k)=\sum_{i=1}^k i^p so that gives an expression in terms of either Bernoulli polynomials or Bernoulli numbers as desired. Or one can get a generating function but I don't know if any of that advances towards the target. It might be interesting to see how the polynomials behave in modular arithmetic. Dmcq (talk) 18:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Have you had a look at s few small cases and at Factorization of polynomials to see how the polynomials fail to be factorizable? Dmcq (talk) 11:52, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Here are the explicit formulas for the first ten P's and Q's. (As can be seen, even their lengths have a fixed form). — (talk) 02:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Simplex coordinates starting with (0,0,0,...),(1,0,0,...)[edit]

I'm looking for a reasonably easy way to calculate the coordinates for an n dimensional simplex where the first two coordinates are at the origin and (1,0,0...) and all-coordinates are non-negative (essentially each time the next dimension is added on, it gets added on in the positive value of the next dimension). So after origin and (1,0,0,0...) the next is (1/2,sqrt(3)/2,....). and the next is (1/2,sqrt(3)/6,?,0,0,0,0), etc. I'd like a formula where I can put in d for dimension of the simplex and n for which coordinate in the the simplex. So for d=3, n=2, I'm getting the sqrt(3)/6.Naraht (talk) 16:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Did you look over here? YohanN7 (talk) 16:15, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I already did. Most of the coordinate systems are definitely not what I want. The only one that I'm not sure of is "Increasing Coordinates" section which I simply don't understand.Naraht (talk) 15:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Try this: Let
a_i=\sqrt{\frac{i+1}{2i}}, b_i=\sqrt{\frac{1}{2i(i+1)}}.
then the kth vector is
(b_1, b_2, \dots , b_{k-1}, a_k, 0, \dots)
starting with the the 0th vector as
(0, 0, 0, \dots).
The requirements are that each vector (after the 0th) has length 1 and the dot product of any two is 1/2 = cos π/3. --RDBury (talk) 22:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Question in applied linear algebra[edit]

At the Science Desk, I asked a linear algebra question regarding how to best remove instabilities from a linear system. I thought the Science Desk was a slightly better fit because the instabilities are a consequence of measurement uncertainties; however, if anyone here has any insights, they would also be welcome. Please reply at the Science Desk. Dragons flight (talk) 19:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

A general method for such problems is the singular value decomposition. The directions corresponding to the small singular values of A are the bad directions. So one way to force stability is to project away those directions. In the case of interest, Ax=b with A a matrix with more rows than columns (an overdetermined system). Multiply by A^T, giving A^TAx=b. Now, A^TA is a symmetric matrix. Orthogonally diagonalize that. Say A^TA=UDU^T where the columns of D are orthonormal, and D is a real diagonal matrix. The subspace on which this system is unstable is spanned by the columns of the matrix U corresponding to the small eigenvalues of A^TA (fix some cutoff ε, and this gives a subspace for the singular values of A less than ε). Then P be the projection onto the orthogonal complement of this space. The problem then becomes to solve PA^TAx=PA^Tb. This system is now under-determined: the instability of the original system has been absorbed into the kernel of the system. Sławomir Biały (talk) 11:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

January 27[edit]

January 28[edit]

typical function[edit]

In entire function, it says "According to J. E. Littlewood, the Weierstrass sigma function is a 'typical' entire function" Can anyone provide a formal citable reference for this? Thanks, Robinh (talk) 02:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Precedence of unary negation (unary -)[edit]

I know unary negation has a lower precedence than exponentation, but where exactly should it be in the order of operations?
Using this ( as a guide, where should negation be on the list exactly?
Also, is there a name given to "unary +"? Is there an antonym for "negation"?

Note that I'm not interested in applied mathematics (such as programming / computer science, etc). I'm interested in pure mathematics only and what the precedence rules are in mathematics.

The Transcendent One 08:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

It definitely must be before addition and subtraction, so that -1+2 reads (-1)+2=1, otherwise it would be -(1+2)=-3. It can be either before or after multiplication and division, as (-a)b = -(ab) so the precedence change does not change calculation results. --CiaPan (talk) 08:47, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
According to Order_of_operations#The_standard_order_of_operations, there is no universal standard. But it's commonly considered equivalent to multiplication, since it is in fact multiplication by -1 (and thus, as CiaPan notes, its place relative to multiplication doesn't matter). Mentally, I at least think of it as a lower priority than multiplication - so I read -ab as -(ab) rather than (-a)b. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 09:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
That's right. However the 'unary minus' may be defined as 'multiplying by negative unit' in introduction to algebra for beginners only. Formally it is a symbol of an additive inverse, which is defined based on addition ('−x' is such element of a group, which added to x results in 0), then serves as a base to define subtraction: xy = x+(−y). Then −ab is an inverse element of ab, just as −(ab) notation suggests. --CiaPan (talk) 11:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

So, entry number 4 on the list at MathWorld should be "4. Multiplication and division and negation"?

Also, is the expression {-n}! valid without brackets for n\ge0, but must be written with brackets as {(-n)}! for n<0?

Also, how do I resolve the expression {-a} \times {-b}? Are brackets needed anywhere? {(-a)} \times {(-b)} can be used to force negation to be done first, but I don't think multiplication can be done before the negation of the b term in {-(a} \times {-b)}.
Furthermore, does the "left to right" rule in precedence apply when negation is considered with other operations? For example, {a} \div {b} \times {c}\quad=\quad{(a}\div{b)} \times {c}\quad\ne\quad{a} \div {(b}\times{c)}.
The Transcendent One 11:07, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

It might be useful to rephrase CiaPan: there are three distinct ways to use the − sign, and these are frequently confounded in everyday use. First, we use the sign to indicate the additive inverse of a positive member of the field of real numbers; in this case, the sign is not being used as a function, but merely as part of a sign denoting a particular real number. Second, we use the sign to indicate the unary function that maps a real number to its additive inverse; this is how (for example) the "CHS" ("change sign") key works on my calculator, since I can apply it at any time in exactly the same way as I might apply any other unary function (such as "Sin", "Cos" or "Exp"). These first two uses are almost invariably confounded in normal mathematical notation. Third, we use the sign to indicate a binary function which, as CiaPan points out, is xy = x+(−y). Interestingly, not all notational systems permit this confusion. One well-known system that does not is Iverson Notation and the related APL_(programming_language), which uses "¯" to indicate a negative number, and "−" to indicate unary negation. All of this suggests one thing fairly clearly: where the − sign is used specifically in denoting a member of the field of real numbers (that is, forms part of the sign itself) it must take the highest precedence, because it is actually part of the sign indicating the number under consideration, and it would be meaningless to do otherwise. RomanSpa (talk) 13:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'd put it at priority zero on the MathWorld list, definitely not with multiplication and division except as explained by Meni above for the most convenient interpretation of -ab, and before exponentation where there is an unwritten bracket. Dbfirs 08:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Aside from the interpretation being a little flexible (e.g. a × b and ab might be interpreted as (−a)b and −(ab) respectively), the precedence of unary minus and exponentiation depends on the order. Thus, ab = −(ab), but ab = a(−b). In general, mathematical notation does not have universal rules, making it unambiguous. —Quondum 17:19, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
a−b means a(−b) because there's nothing else it could mean, not because of any precedence rule. ab+c = a(b+c) too, but no one would say that + has higher precedence than exponentiation. In programming languages that have an infix exponentiation operator (often **), a**b+c means (a**b)+c. -- BenRG (talk) 05:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
There's no left-to-right rule in algebraic notation. x + y + z just means x + y + z. It doesn't matter how you parenthesize it because addition is associative. x − y + z is a shorthand for x + (−y) + z, and again the addition is associative. The ÷ symbol is not used in mathematics. Division may be represented by a / symbol, but that is a typographical variant of the horizontal division line, not a proper infix operator, and its interpretation depends on context. 1/xy definitely means \frac1{xy}, not \frac1xy, but 1/x·y could mean either one.
Also, don't confuse operator precedence with the order of operations. Operator precedence is a real thing, whereas the order of operations exists only in the minds of grade school teachers. When evaluating 1×2+3+4, it's fine to start by evaluating 3+4. You can't start with 2+3, but that's not because "multiplication comes first"; it's because the expression really means (1×2)+3+4, and 2)+3 is not a subexpression. -- BenRG (talk) 05:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

January 30[edit]

January 31[edit]

Harmonic mean problem[edit]

The sequence 20, 12, 6, 5, 2, 1 arose in a newspaper puzzle. It has the property that the cumulative HM from L to R is integral, with the specific values 20, 15, 10, 8, 5, 3. Is it possible to construct an increasing sequence without end with the same property? (talk) 23:30, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

According to my calculations, 1⋅2, 2⋅3, 3⋅4, 4⋅5, ... has cumulative harmonic means 2, 3, 4, 5 ... . --RDBury (talk) 03:44, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
True, analogous to 1, 3, 5, 7, ... for AM and 1, 4, 9, 16, ... for GM. I wonder if there is an HM sequence for all starting integers apart from 1.→ (talk) 09:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

"For all vertices... but at most \gamma n of them"[edit]

I am trying to decipher this:

Let d(x) denote the degree of x in H, and d(x,y) the number of edges of H containing both x and y. Write \pm\delta to mean a quantity between -\delta and \delta.

For every integer r\ge 2 and reals k\ge 1 and a>0, there are \gamma=\gamma(r,k,a)>0 and d_0 =d_0 (r,k,a) such that for every n\ge D \ge d_0 the following holds:

Every r-uniform hypergraph H=(V,E) on a set V of n vertices in which all vertices have positive degrees and which satisfies the following conditions:

  1. For all vertices x \in V but at most \gamma n of them, d(x)=(1\pm\gamma)D.
  2. For all x \in V, d(x)<kD.
  3. For any two distinct x,y \in V, d(x,y)<\gamma D.
contains a cover of at most (1+a)(n/r) edges.

Specifically, I don't understand the first condition. "For all vertices" and "for at most \gamma n vertices" seem like they contradict each other to me. --superioridad (discusión) 05:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

It is likely to mean "for all except at most γn of them". YohanN7 (talk) 09:54, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Oh, as in "all but at most γn vertices". That makes complete sense, thank you.
--superioridad (discusión) 10:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


January 26[edit]

Relationship between relative age of students and their academic performance[edit]

In most K–12 education systems, the students within a grade differ in age by up to one year. On average, do the older student perform better academically than their younger classmates?

I found two papers[26][27] that claim this is indeed the case.

But then I also found this New Yorker article[28], citing this paper[29], that the opposite is true, surprisingly enough.

So which group of academics is correct here? WinterWall (talk) 04:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

It's unlikely you can come to any reliable conclusion with only 3 papers, onlyunless one of them happens to be a review paper (i.e. there are actually a lot more papers). At most, you may be able to decide that one or more of the papers isn't particularly good (but this doesn't mean you can be certain that the others are definitely right even if the research is better, you still only have 2 papers). Anyway these papers seem to be looking at different things. The first 2 seem to be looking at academic performance during the children's schooling years. The other one seems to be looking at IQ at 18, educational attainment, earnings, teenage pregnancy and possibly other things. So it could easily be both findings are largely correct (or for that matter wrong). Nil Einne (talk) 07:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Something besides scholastic aptitude that matters is self-control and emotional maturity, especially in early elementary school. μηδείς (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I’ve had a quick dig through google scholar and found three more papers [30] [31] [32] (that coincidentally come to similar conclusions as your first two) but no systematic review/literature review/meta-analytic review, which is what you want. Some terms for you to keep searching on: “birthday effect”, “relative age effect”, “birth month”, “season of birth”, “birthdate effect” etc. Taknaran (talk) 15:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

what if the USA, the EU-Countries, Russia, China and India suddenly disappared?[edit]

what would happen, if, some day about now, the United States of America, the 28 member states of the European Union, the Russian Federation, the Peoples Republic of China and the Republic of India (all these nations territory defined by the territory they claim to belong to them, irrespective of how other countries think of these claims or actual territorial control. Territorial waters count. Airspace and space within earth gravity well included) would, without any unusual preceding signs or explanation suddenly disappear (disappear in the sense, that there are nosigns anymore, that humans ever existed in these places - no manmade structures, no artifacts, even ressources exploited by humans are back) ? What would be the global ramifications of such an event? How would the part of humanity that would still be there (and their gouvernments) act in such a situation with all of the worlds major powers gone? (of course I'm aware that this premise is rather fantastical, but so is Without Warning (Birmingham novel)) -- (talk) 08:05, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

That sounds like a great question for xkcd What If. I think Randall would also love your exact specifications of the problem. Not that there's anything wrong with asking it here, either. — Sebastian 08:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, the thing wrong with asking it here is that it says at the top of the page "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." -- BenRG (talk) 08:45, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
See also Darwinia (novel)... AnonMoos (talk) 08:34, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The only certain answer is that the USA, the EU-Countries, Russia, China and India would no longer exist. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:29, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Ukraine Would Rule World! MWAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHaha! μηδείς (talk) 18:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Switzerland might also have an opinion on the issue. Tevildo (talk) 20:12, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The Swiss will be too busy in their sex boxes for world domination. And don't even mention the Japanese and Koreans with their marriage pillows. Ukraine Rules!!! μηδείς (talk) 22:49, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
No, the Mongol Hordes would deal with them. Mind you, the swastika is quite popular there, so maybe they might get along quite well, especially at football matches. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 09:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Mongkrainia Would Rule World! MWAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHahaHAHaha! μηδείς (talk) 18:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I wouldn't have to take my car to be e-tested anymore... (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
And the Canadian content TV quota would be easier to maintain. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:00, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
Not only that, no-one would have to worry about the Eurozone anymore, without the Greeks, Spanish, and Italians to feck it up. Britain would once again be completely independant (though with the OP's premise, no-one would actually be here). Anybody not in the EU would immediately seize the chance to occupy these islands if we all disappeared suddenly, through some bizarre 'rapture' thingy that Christians fantasize about, only to find lots of clothes lying around in the streets, because, apparently, God is into having lots of naked people around him. Or maybe that was just the artists in the old days, where drawing pictures of naked men was a 'fashion'. Oh, hang on, they were Greek, Spanish, and Italians. Is there a pattern here? KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 19:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)


Suppose that you believe the entire Hebrew Bible to be true (like most Christians), but you don't accept the New Testament. You're also not Jewish by ethnicity and haven't formally converted to the religion. Perhaps you were a Christian who got disillusioned with the New Testament, and because you're black, nobody would think you're a Jew. What would you be called? Do people like this actually exist? Under Jewish tradition, do these people have to follow the Law (including all 613 mitzvot), or can they just follow the Noahide laws? --Bowlhover (talk) 08:44, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

In ancient times such people were known as God-fearers -- kind of hangers-on to Judaism who were reluctant to get circumcised or effectively repudiate their previous ethnic affiliation. Christianity spread in part because converting to Christianity didn't require such steps... AnonMoos (talk) 09:06, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Our article Noahidism explains that there is a modern concept of Noahidism, but not how many adherents there are. Under Jewish law, unless you're Jewish, you don't need to keep the 613 laws, just the seven. If you wanted to convert, it's notoriously difficult, but I know people who have done this, and this particular motive, which is often taken into account by the Beth Din for orthodox conversion, is extremely noble. There are black Jews. Our disambiguation page has some links. --Dweller (talk) 12:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Many "Christian" Conservatives in the US seems to believe in the old testament more than the new. They believe in the existence of Christ, but don't follow his teachings, like pacifism. They would also like the Noahide law banning homosexuality. StuRat (talk) 15:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Um -- theologically, Jesus did not teach "pacifism", but "forgiveness." See theological texts on this, and don't read the "popular religion" books which tend to deal in single syllables <g>. The best example of "Christian pacifism" practitioners I can think of is the Mennonites. John Howard Yoder's discussion about Reinhold Niebuhr and "forgiveness" as not meaning absolute "pacifism" is directly on point. [33] Collect (talk) 16:15, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Don't forget the Quakers ! StuRat (talk) 16:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
More properly Friends. See [34] for a book which deals at length with the dichotomy between pacifism and civic responsibility for defense in the Rhode Island and Providence Plantations in the 17th century. Complex, but the possibility that "pacifism" was not present at the start of the Friends movement is interesting. [35] deals with the slavery issue -- where the distinction between pacifism and anti-slavery actions were rife in the movement. Not a "one size fits all" situation. Collect (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to all! I didn't know that there are former Christians who convert to Judaism, or that black Jews existed.
@StuRat: Jesus' position on pacifism was confusing, to say the least. Everyone knows Matthew 5:38, where Jesus tells his disciples to turn the other cheek instead of resisting evil-doers. But he had no problem with evil-doers being cast into outer darkness or into everlasting fires, with "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Luke 13:27-28, Matthew 13:40-43, Mark 9:47, plus many other places). In Luke 22:36 he tells his followers to buy swords, but then admonishes them for chopping off the ear of someone coming to arrest him. We never find out what the swords are for--perhaps the apocalypse that he thought was coming?
I also don't think Jesus had anything against the Old Testament. In fact, he quite explicitly says that the Law will not pass until heaven and earth pass away (see my blog post here, under "Jesus' teachings: the Law"). Certainly Paul and many other Christians were explicitly antinomian, but Jesus was probably not. --Bowlhover (talk) 05:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

By the way, further to StuRat's comment above, it's far from clear that the Jewish concept of Noahidism includes a prohibition on homosexuality. We're currently discussing the sources at WT:JUDAISM. --Dweller (talk) 10:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Questions about Black people in Britain[edit]

Hi Kids. I have 2 questions regarding the history of Black people in Britain.

  • Aside from job discrimination and issues with the police, how did the idea of Black power come to Britain in the late 1960s and 1970s?
  • Secondly, is there a difference between Black Power and Black Consciousness? Are they linked or separate? Thanks guys.

--Spoœekspaar (talk) 12:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

2) Our articles treat them separately, but of course there are some links in terms of ideology and goals - see Black_Power#Impact_in_Britain, and Black_Consciousness_Movement. The former is seen as starting in the USA, the latter as starting in South Africa. Both had some impacts around the world. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:22, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Red Army personal firearms in 1918-1921[edit]

What were the main personal firearm models (revolvers, pistols and rifles) used by the Red Army in the Russian Civil War? The ones most often mentioned in fiction are Mauser C96 handgun, Nagant M1895 revolver, Mosin rifle and Berdan rifle. Are these really the main ones, or is this a self-sustaining bias in literary and cinematic fiction? What other types of revolvers and pistols were in use in the Red Army? Dr Dima (talk) 18:54, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't find any direct references, but The Soviet High Command: a Military-political History, 1918-1941 edited by John Erickson (p. 9) says that the foundation of the Red Army were the Red Guard detachments, made up from revolutionaries from Imperial Army base depots and "Fighting Detachments of the People's Militia" which were formed by Bolshevik groups in factories. There were plenty of weapons available from the disintegrating Imperial Army (9 million strong with at least 2 million front line troops in October 1917) and the Bolsheviks had control of the munitions factories. However, they had no allies in the outside world to send them weapons, so I suspect that the arsenal of the Red Army would be limited to weapons made in Russia or imported by the previous regime. The US had been a major supplier to the Tsar's forces, selling anything them that was available including the Winchester Model 1895 lever-action rifle. In many armies, officers were responsible for purchasing their own sidearms, which perhaps explains the Mausers, bought commercially pre-war (I believe that Winston Churchill carried one at the Battle of Omdurman). Alansplodge (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

australian aboriginals[edit]

Why didn't the Australian Aboriginals domesticate animals or develop agriculture? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The way they lived worked just dandy for somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 years. Far longer than any other known human societies. They were perfectly adapted to their environment, to the extent that they made no distinctions between themselves and the environment. They did not own any land. If anything, they considered the land owned them. They knew nothing of the world outside their country, and didn't need to. This is a bit like asking why Martians don't speak English. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:44, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Not really. The people in other places who did domesticate animals and develop agriculture were also adapted to their environment, they just found a new adaptation that worked better for them. Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs and Steel goes into why it was that some cultures made these changes and others didn't; as I recall, the principal reason is the availability of suitable species of plants and animals. -- (talk) 23:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, as I recall it's a combination of several environmental criteria. Only two seasons, always the same temperature, always the same food resources all year long, is not the same thing as four different seasons and the need to store for winter, or the need to migrate thus witness there are different realities out there. The fact that there are four seasons and a sky that changes shape and depth, and a lenghth of day that can be short or long etc, probably suggests more than on other latitudes, that reality could exist in many possible ways? Akseli9 (talk) 10:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
That's a lot of generalisation. Not all Aboriginal people lived in the desert or tropical regions. For example in the south west, the Noongar people recognised six distinct seasons. Various groups did indeed employ forms of agriculture and aquaculture. Hack (talk) 11:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Some Aboriginals had fairly sophisticated routines of fire management (surprising redlink, and land management does not mention fire...). Anyway, see e.g. here [36] or here [37] for some information on what this accomplished. The idea is that by manipulating fire frequency and severity, they could maximize plant and animal resources. Now, this isn't exactly what most people would call agriculture, but it is a way of cultivating plants and animals for human consumption, which is the broad definition of agriculture. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
We do have an article about controlled burns. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:05, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I would guess that kangaroos aren't as easy to domesticate as animals like sheep. All you need to keep a herd of sheep in line is a few sheep dogs. I doubt if that would work for roos. You'd probably need lots of very high fences. StuRat (talk) 15:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the infeasability has been well-documented. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:07, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
User:Akseli9's weather related theory doesn't bear close scrutiny. "Tasmania has a cool temperate climate with four distinct seasons..." yet the Aboriginal Tasmanians are generally held to be the society that developed the least forms of technology. They were apparently unable (or unwilling) to start fires, make clothes and in some places even build shelters beyond a simple wind break. This article says, "Tasmania, however, was cut off from all outside input 10,000 years ago, and the sole inventions available were those of the Tasmanians themselves." It also points out that from the archaeological evidence, Tasmanians lost the ability to make bone tools and inexplicably stopped eating fish, despite living mainly on the coast. Isolation seems to be the issue. Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
True. Akseli9 (talk) 22:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

January 27[edit]

Is it illegal anywhere to surgically assign sex at birth?[edit]

Resolved: ± Lenoxus (" *** ") 04:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Surgery is often performed on intersex infants to conform them to one particular sex. However, intersex adults almost unanimously agree that this is a bad practice, and that's becoming the expert consensus as well. Are there any laws anywhere in the world regulating, limiting, or banning such procedures? Neither the intersex article nor Legal aspects of transsexualism seemed to answer this. ± Lenoxus (" *** ") 00:08, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Our Intersex surgery and History of intersex surgery mention a Colombian constitutional court decision limited the parents ability to consent to such surgeries. The [38] (which is being a paywall) also mentions that case as the only country where a Constitutional court has ruled against parents' ability to consent to such surgery for their children. Although that doesn't specifically rule out other countries having laws against such surgeries, the only other country it mentions is Germany and the suggestion by some there that it should be banned which hasn't happened (but they do allow an X sex marker on the birth certificate). This makes me think the authors weren't aware of any other countries with a legal ban. There is a case before the courts in South Carolina in the US mentioned in the third source. And I can also find example of other stuff such as the United Nations Report of the Special Rapporteur on Torture suggesting it be banned when performed on children.

BTW, it's nominally possibly that such surgeries will become rarely if ever be performed, even if not illegal. There's obviously general community and medical staff views that will affect rates but I'm notedit:actually thinking of more quasi-legal reasons. The earlier sources and plenty of others note that some organisations of doctors have come out against such surgeries when performed on children without their explicit consent (or similar). While it doesn't sound like it's happened, should they be enough against it that they will actively seek out and deregister anyone performing such surgeries (and considering in many countries such registration is required for them to legally be allowed to perform such surgeries), this will likely make such surgeries very rare. To give an example, this (see Participation of medical professionals in American executions and Michael Morales) and other things (like the EU ban on their companies selling drugs for the purpose and the reluctance of non EU companies to get involved) has caused problems implementing the death penalty in the US.

And something mentioned in the third source is a court case in Germany where a person won €100000 damages due to such a surgery [39] [40]. If a clear risk of frequent future damages becomes evident, it may be unlikely such surgeries will be performed even though nominally not illegal. (Perhaps only among a small minority of parents who can afford to pay very very high fees due to insurance. And if the risk is high enough even insurance may not be willing to offer cover, so it may require parents with sufficient wealth such that medical staff are confident in parents legally indemnifying them.)

Nil Einne (talk) 00:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC) Edit at 11:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC) as I used the wrong word.

P.S. I should clarify I'm not trying to demean or underestimate the horrific discrimination intersex people suffer, nor oppose laws banning reassignment surgery when there's no clear cut medical necessities or explicit informed individual consent. Simply pointing out if you're looking at how such surgery may be limited or basically abandoned, there may be other ways that end up having a significant effect when legislators do not directly intervene.

Nil Einne (talk) 03:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much, this is quite thorough and covers everything I wanted to know. ± Lenoxus (" *** ") 04:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm aware of the difference, but I admit it hadn't occurred to me. Thanks ± Lenoxus (" *** ") 04:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

What Happens Next ?[edit]

I recently went to see American Sniper, which I did like, and noticed at the funerals, the U.S. Navy SEALs, including Chris Kyle, thumping their Trident badges onto the coffins of Michael A. Monsoor, and then later Kyle's own coffin. I had also seen this in the movie Act of Valor, and I would just like to know whether the Tridents stay and are buried with the coffin, or they are taken back later, and if not, whether the SEALS get new ones to replace those they put on the coffin, since surely many of the guys who went to Monsoor's funeral must also later have attended Kyle's. Thanks. Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly 08:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC).

I don't know if this is what they actually do, but getting an imitation trident ahead of time for leaving at the burial would be the obvious choice. StuRat (talk) 15:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
According to Reddit people, SEALs (or anyone) can buy new badges for $10-15 at the uniform shop. They keep their original on their own uniform or in a box. Apparently every SEAL gets the casket treatment. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:52, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
Maybe, but maybe not.... :) KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 18:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
After the only funeral ever held for a Golden Seal captain, what happened next was drinks at the golf course. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:54, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Thank You all - that makes a lot of sense, considering some SEALS, as I mentioned, may end up attending more than one Funeral. The main thing is that that appropriate Symbolism is observed. Thanks Again. Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly 11:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]

Apostasy in the Jehovah's Witness denomination[edit]

I am mainly wondering how the denomination deals with apostates, be they inactive members or disfellowshipped members. Are inactive and disfellowshipped members still allowed to communicate with their family members, or are they kept from communicating with their JW families too (like some Amish families)? Please do not cite Wikipedia, because I already checked that page, and it doesn't really say much about people who leave the denomination. It does say that the denomination has a somewhat low retention rate, so most individuals who are raised by JW parents probably de-convert from the denomination. It also basically talks about the grounds and process of disfellowshipping someone, including shunning. My main question is, is this shunning method of disfellowshipping someone personal? I mean, do the parents and relatives of the disfellowshipped person stop writing to the apostate or stop all communication? (talk) 01:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Are you looking for the official position of the clergy of the denomination, or are you looking for individual anecdotes for how people were treated by their families? The one may have more to do with the religion, while the other may have more to do with the dynamics of the individual family, and may not have any official religious reason. Something to think about in your research... --Jayron32 02:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Official documentation as well as personal anecdotes. (talk) 02:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Update: I chatted with the local librarian, and the librarian directed me to EbscoHost, Proquest, and the Library Catalog. At least I found two biographies titled "I'm Perfect, You're Doomed: Tales from a Jehovah's Witness upbringing" and another book titled "Awakening of a Jehovah's witness: Escape from the Watchtower Society". They sound interesting, and may shed light on the lives of some ex-Witnesses. (talk) 04:47, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
From personal experience, inactive is a pretty broad spectrum from believer who for whatever reason isn't active in the ministry to non-believer who has avoided being disfellowshipped or has chosen not to disassociate themselves (a separate state on a level with disfellowshipping). An apostate may be just about any where on that spectrum (or even an active Witness - not that they would usually last long). The treatment of a disfellowshipped person, in my experience, varies depending on 1) living arrangements - if the person is a minor or a parent, they can't exactly avoid contact with them, 2) the infraction that caused the person to be disfellowshipped, 3) the level of "spirituality" (devoutness) of the family 4) the attitude of the disfellowshipped person toward their offence. (talk) 05:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Their official website has information about apostasy indexed at, and information about disfellowshipping indexed at Information specifically about how to treat disfellowshipped relatives is at
Wavelength (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
They have published the movie "The Prodigal Returns" (1:34:45) at
Wavelength (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
So, what does the movie have to do with the question? (talk) 04:47, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There is some discussion in our article Jehovah's Witnesses and congregational discipline#Shunning including how to treat family members linked to a variety of sources. Alternatively a simple search for something like 'jehovah witness shunning' should find sources such as those above or [41]. Perhaps more importantly considering the question, it should also find anecdotes like [42] [43] [44] [45]. Add 'anecdote' or similar and you'll probably find more like [46] [47] [48] Nil Einne (talk) 08:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC) Edit: [49] may also be of interest, as the person discusses how they found relatives who had already been shunned. Nil Einne (talk) 15:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article generally discusses the process of the shunning practice. Also, I found a more academic source. [50], in which the researcher poses as an ex-Mormon and joins an ex-Jehovah's Witness website, with a large nonreligious community. The researcher interviews the people on Skype. (talk) 14:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Towards the end of that article, the author indicates that she is actually an ex-Mormon. (talk) 04:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

about drama[edit]

If it is for solo performance for 10 minute drama, how and what can be the best to perform ? What exactly should it be like? Any suggestions. I hope my sentences are understandable.

Learnerktm 08:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

There is not enough information in the question for us to give you a meaningful answer. How many people are in the audience? Are they children, adults, or a mixture of both? Is there a specific theme? If this is a school/university assignment, why not ask your teacher? Please be a bit more specific. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
KägeTorä - () Thanks, once again for your answer. I was thinking to participate in 10 minute drama festival next month here in Nepal. Yes, I am from Nepal and there is going to be drama festival. They have said it for no particular age groups and themes can be any. And, one should not need be from theatrical background.

...hope the spelling "theatrical" is correct. Confused :(

Learnerktm 12:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

You might consider part of a dramatic poem or other monologue. For example, you might consider part of The Song of Hiawatha, which is particularly good for people who are learning English as the grammar and vocabulary are both very clear. Alternatively, if you (and your audience) speak exceptional English you might consider part of John Dryden's translation of the Aeneid: the scene of the storm at sea in Book 1 is particularly good to read out loud, as you get all of Juno's wrath and all of Neptune's power on full display.
Another possibility would be to consider doing part of a dramatic monologue such as one of Alan Bennett's Talking Heads. It might be worth seeking further guidance by cross-posting this question to the Entertainment section of the Reference Desk. RomanSpa (talk) 13:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
You don’t say what language you will perform in, Learnerktm? Just in case here are some non-English ideas. Taknaran (talk) 15:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Yorick is a good one. You'd need to find some props, however. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 15:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Doesn't everyone have a spare human skull in their crawlspace ? :-) StuRat (talk) 21:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I have crawlspace inside my human skull, where a brain would normally go. Does that count? :) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
You might want to buy a copy of The Faber Popular Reciter, edited by Kingsley Amis, a collection of poems that work particularly well when read aloud. It includes dramatic monologues. --Antiquary (talk) 16:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"Al-Mrrajjam", Jordan[edit]

This article (Al-Mrrajjam) was created in 2009. It is almost totally uncited. Googling "Al-Mrrajjam", I can't find any reference to it that isn't liked to the Wikipedia page. There are no Google books results. Does anyone have any idea if this places exists? Might it be a transliteration issue, and it's usually spelt differently in English? Sotakeit (talk) 12:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

The link at the bottom of the page links to a site which has an arabic translation of the name [المرجم]. Googling that leads to results that confirms that the place exists, such as this random article from Al-Dustour newspaper [52] "Oldest man has died in Al-Mrajem in Ajloun province". I could not find an article in the arabic wikipeida, but the village is mentioned in the article about Ajloun province [53]. Al-Marajem would be another possible transcription. --Xuxl (talk) 13:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
This website also gives details of the Al-Mrrajam Secondary Comprehensive Girls School, including its phone number. If you speak Arabic you could try ringing them up. --Antiquary (talk) 13:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Interesting that the directory above puts a shadda above the "r", so it makes "Al-Merrajem" or "Al-Marrajem" a more correct transcription. Neither spelling gets any result in English however. --Xuxl (talk) 13:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It's probably the place called Merjam on this Bing map.--Cam (talk) 14:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Agnes of Rome[edit]

Does anyone know why Saint Agnes (Agnes of Rome) has two separate feast days in the Roman Catholic calendar? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"Her feast day is 21 January. In pre-1970 versions of the General Roman Calendar an additional feast of the same saint is given one week later, on 28 January (see Tridentine Calendar). The 1969 revision removed this as a duplication of the 21 January feast." [54] Alansplodge (talk) 01:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, But, I had already read that in the Agnes of Rome article. So, I am not sure how that answers my question. Why was she given an additional feast day (two, in total) to begin with? The 1969 revision basically said "OK, we don't think she needs two. One is plenty. So, let's remove the second one." But the question is why did she "merit" two, to begin with? In fact, today (January 28) is called the "Second Feast Day of Saint Agnes" (on my Catholic calendar of 2015). And, on the same calendar, last week (January 21) was marked as "Feast Day of Saint Agnes". Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Supposedly, 28 January is her birthday and 21 January is the anniversary of her martyrdom. --Antiquary (talk) 10:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I guess I am not articulating well, and I am not making my question clear. Let me try again. She has two feast days; most saints have only one. In fact, if I am correct, all saints (not "most"") have only one feast day. So, why would she "merit" having two instead of the "regular" one? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
We understand what you're asking but are just forwarding the information that we've found. Everything that Google could find me seems to point to 28 January being an alternative (rather than additional) feast day, now officially abandoned. There may be another explanation, but if so, it eludes me. Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. All of the links given above are copies of the Wikipedia page (or vice versa). And, on my calendar, she specifically has an "additional" feast, not an alternate. In fact, Wikipedia has an article (redirect) specifically for "Second Feast of St. Agnes", which is listed on the "Feast Days" for the January 28 article. If it were an "alternate", it would not specifically bear the name "Second Feast Day". Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree that it's odd. As a matter of practicality, it seems that all the action with the Pope and the lambs etc seems to take place on 21 January. We Anglicans only have 21 Jan [55], but I expect that doesn't help much. Alansplodge (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Bingo! I Googled "Second Feast of St. Agnes" and got 28th January, the second Feast of St Agnes, The Restoration and Organic Development of the Roman Rite by Laszlo Dobszay (p. 129) and the simplest explanation; "This feast commemorates the apparition of St. Agnes to her parents who came to pray at her tomb eight days after her martyrdom." [56] A footnote (No. 21) at the foot of this page says; "The second feast of St Agnes on 29th January is not generally called an octave, but certainly resembles one. The two feasts, of great antiquity, are described respectively as of her ‘passion’ and her (heavenly) ‘nativity’ in the Gelasian sacramentary and the Würzburg gospel list; their designation as ‘primo’ and ‘secundo’, used in the 1962 calendar, comes from the Gregorian Sacramentary, where the feasts are also found. See W.H. Frere Studies in Early Roman Liturgy Vol. I: The Kalendar (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1930), p. 89.". Mystery solved. Alansplodge (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. That's helpful and interesting detail. But, my question still remains. Why does she get two, when every other saint under the sun only gets one? In other words, there are many other saints who are martyrs. What is different about her that merits her two feast days in the Roman Catholic Church? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:30, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with Catholic practice so I may be missing something, but it looks to me like there are quite a few saints who have, or used to have, more than one feast day. Looking at some of the more obvious ones I find two or more feast days for John the Baptist, St. Paul, St. Joseph, St. Peter and the Virgin Mary. In mediaeval England 10 saints had two feast days, one had four, and one had five (see p. 94 n. 52). Is the case of St. Agnes really so very unusual? --Antiquary (talk) 11:11, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, there is still a distinction. Those others have multiple feast days, but they are usually for some specific event in the life of that saint. For example, John the Baptist: (1) his nativity; and (2) his beheading. Saint Paul: (1) his conversion; (2) his shipwreck; and (3) the dedication of his church . Or such. Saint Agnes doesn't really have some specific "event", as far as I can tell. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, from the sources that I quoted above, the first seems to commemorate her martyrdom and the second, her apparition to her parents eight days later. Alansplodge (talk) 19:34, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I understand. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Third Crusade[edit]

Our article says, The campaign was largely successful, capturing the important cities of Acre, Jaffa, and reversing most of Saladin's conquests...
Is there a more accurate account of how many total cities captured and how many people involved?
withdraw--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

‘Out-of-body’ and ‘Inside the body’ Experience[edit]


Out-of-body experience is when your soul/spirit is outside your body. I understand the feelings perceived during this momentum. How would you classify similar experiences from being inside the body? -- ( (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2015 (UTC))

Corporal will work, but you need to give an example. See also, St. Theresa. μηδείς (talk) 22:49, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@Medeis: Think of it as you realised your body parts one day, how the face distinguished with realised you don't belong inside your body. An OBE kind of feeling but you could still control your body... And you are awake when you had this feeling, while you are looking in the mirror, talking to people, and so on... -- ( (talk) 07:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC))
That's disassociation (or depersonalization or derealization). An extreme mixture lies in the K-hole. I don't think you want to find it, but it's probably safe to click the link. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:11, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
Lol. Thanks bro Face-tongue.svg. Wish we done this together, you are the perfect guy... (always helping out...) -- ( (talk) 15:52, 29 January 2015 (UTC))

Exchange of prisoners with ISIS[edit]

There has been a lot of activity recently with the idea of exchanging prisoners with ISIS, in order to get hostages released. And, just today, this has happened with that Jordanian pilot who was captured by ISIS a few weeks ago. So, these incidents have prompted my question. Let's say that the USA exchanges one of our prisoners (for a hostage being released or for whatever reason). So, that means that the federal government is releasing the prisoner from prison. So, my question is: is that (former) prisoner now 100% free and clear? Or can he somehow be sent back to prison? So, in other words, what is the legal effect of the prisoner exchange? Is it like he was pardoned? And he is now 100% free to go on with his life? Or, if he is walking around the streets (in the USA), can he be re-arrested and sent back to prison? Or is he protected by double jeopardy? I mean, what happens in these cases? Practically speaking, I assume, the prisoner is sent back to his home country, so many of my questions are not applicable. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"If it is decided to release persons deprived of their liberty, necessary measures to ensure their safety shall be taken by those so deciding." Some more context to that rule and further reading here.
In a very general sense, the prisoner isn't totally free, but given over to another authority. It's then up to that authority to pardon, imprison, execute or whatever. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:23, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
Though apparently, like much else to do with the War on Terror, the "Terror" side is often considered differently from regular soldiers by those on the "War" side. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:29, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. All of your links, I believe, apply to prisoners of war and also apply only during war time. So, apparently, there are "rules" for that. And what about situations where it is not a prisoner of war and not during war time? In other words, say that some crazy person (like an ISIS member or whoever) takes a civilian hostage (maybe a journalist or whatever). I don't think Geneva Convention rules apply at all. Right? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
That's the debate. Is the War on Terror a "real" war? Is every non-Western soldier just a "crazy person"? The issue is kept purposefully muddy, to allow for all sorts of legal and rhetorical interpretations.
As for hostages, the US has made a cliche out of their "We don't negotiate with terrorists" policy. Again, it's not so clear-cut as that.
For clearly non-war prisoner trading, the Geneva Convention means nothing. All about the various extradition laws then. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:33, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
But what is clearly non-war is not clear. I just read a story about an Iraqi-Canadian civilian who allegedly e-mailed two Tunisian civilians in Syria regarding a bombing in Iraq. Four years after he was arrested by civilian police in Canada, he was finally allowed to plead in civilian court last week, in the United States, defended by an American lawyer. Because five non-civilian Americans died while on active duty in a warzone.
Confusion like that is why only lawyers can be lawyers. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:14, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
For another look at how foggy words have become, see how sending soldiers to kill enemies in another country only sort of maybe counts as sending them to do "combat". InedibleHulk (talk) 00:50, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
I like the idea of releasing the ISIS suicide bomber, with a bomb sewn up inside her, and detonate it when when returns to her comrades. Poetic justice. StuRat (talk) 03:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't think inciting mass murder of an identifiable group is really appropriate on wikipedia considering the illegality of such statements in the developed world, can you please stop making unrelated and offensive posts. (talk) 04:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, nobody captures suicide bombers. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:48, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
That's not true, unless you mean to distinguish between suicide bombers and would-be suicide bombers. Bombs frequently fail to go off, or just fizzle, as in the case of the Detroit underwear bomber or the shoe bomber. StuRat (talk) 04:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
For example, the suicide pilots employed by Japan in WWII. Many of them perished, but not all. Like the world's oldest living Kamikaze pilot, "Chicken" Teriyaki. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:34, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I count them as suicide bombers in the same way I count LA waiters as actors. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:29, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
That's LA, not L.A. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:19, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
You are easily offended, 70.Lgriot (talk) 03:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Two elements of answers to the OP's question. 1) If a country swaps a prisoner they hold for one held by a foreign group, the former prisoner likely has no intention of returning the the country which imprisoned them. Were they to do so, they would likely, at best, be refused entry, and yes, risk being locked up again. 2) The former prisoner may or may not be "100% free" in regards to their past conduct which landed them in prison. If they return to committing imprisonable offences (e.g. terrorism or murder) post-release, they can, from a legal perspective, be put back behind bars for the "fresh" offences. Of course, this will only happen in practice of if they're stupid or unlucky enough to be captured again. (talk) 14:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Of course, subsequent conduct of "new" charges ("new" criminal activity) will be handled appropriately. In other words, the "release" (exchange) on the first crime does not give him license to commit any new crimes in the future (without legal repercussion). I am trying to determine the legal status of the "old" crime (the one for which he was imprisoned and eventually exchanged). Is it like that crime is "wiped off the books" and he is free as if he were pardoned? Double jeopardy does not attach? And the real gist of the question is: once the USA agrees to this exchange, is there some legal "loophole" by which they can throw the guy back in jail (presumably, after the USA has received the other prisoner in exchange)? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The United States (or others in good standing with the World Bank) doesn't need a loophole to kill or capture someone. What's anyone going to do? Arrest a President? Kick down all these doors with warrants? When you're this big, you can wipe pretty much anything off the books. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:56, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
Not sure how that answers my question? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:46, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It doesn't directly. But the lack of a need for a loophole suggests they don't use a loophole. It might still exist. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:57, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
An interesting question of international law (that I'll apparently be researching later this semester) is whether engaging in negotiations with non-state actors for the release of their prisoners hostages is even legal. Apparently it's unclear. As a corollary, the formerly common practice of paying ransoms for ships, cargoes, and crews captured by Somali pirates is explicitly unlawful under US law. If we're talking about non-state actors negotiating with ISIS for the release of prisoners, payment of funds would probably be unlawful under laws prohibiting the funding of foreign wars/terrorism (depending on how you want to classify ISIS). If we're talking about a sovereign state negotiating with ISIS, one thought I have is that if the negotiation itself wasn't legal, any agreement they reach would be a nullity in international law, and so the state could just turn around and recapture the guys. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 06:11, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

What style of architecture is this?[edit]

What style of architecture is this File:Mistletoe house, Jekyll Island, Georgia.jpg? The info is for Jekyll Island Club#List of remaining resort homes. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 06:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Since it has the characteristic gambrel roof with curved eaves, I'd say that it's basically Dutch Colonial Revival. Compare the Pearce-McAllister Cottage. Deor (talk) 09:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Check out Mansard_roof as well. (talk) 13:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Nope. Gambrel it is. A gambrel has vertical gable ends. (talk) 13:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
" Europeans historically did not distinguish between a gambrel roof and a mansard roof but called both types a mansard" (from gambrel). This probably being why 196 mentioned mansard. --Saddhiyama (talk) 19:14, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I put that in the article. To me it looks pretty similar to the Victorian style of the Moss Cottage, but I don't know anything about this type of thing. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 19:20, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, "Victorian" doesn't really denote a specific architectural style, which is what you asked for. It's more of a catch-all term for styles popular in a particular period. Many of the Jekyll Island Club buildings are "Victorian", but they were constructed in a variety of architectural styles. I'd say that Moss Cottage was also Dutch Colonial Revival. Deor (talk) 22:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Another commonality: Mistletoe Cottage and Moss Cottage both appear to be built in the shingle style. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Definitely Dutch Colonial Revival. Don't know about in Georgia, but in Indiana, the SHPO and other historic preservation agencies pretty much universally refer to gambrel-roofed houses as being Dutch Colonial Revival. See the houses in Commons:Category:Dutch Colonial Revival architecture in Bloomington, Indiana for examples (categorisation was all based off the City of Bloomington Interim Report), or the National Register form for the Walter Allman House at the other end of the state. The only other common style with mansards/gambrels is the Second Empire, and its structures generally look different: I can't quite explain how, but you can see that the Second Empire Al Hayes House is significantly different from the Thomas Sare House one block away. Gables with big windows appear to be rather common, as do big dormers, while the dormers of Second Empire seem to be less of a presence, not quite as important of a factor in the overall appearance. PS, Sluzzelin has a good point: Shingle influences are completely out of place in a Second Empire structure, as the style's popularity collapsed rather suddenly before the rise of the Shingle. Nyttend (talk) 01:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you everyone. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


other proposed Taiwanese flags[edit]

Recently, I've searched on Google for a proposed flag of Taiwan. There were several images of others which looked really nice. One in particular stood out. It happened to have a light green background and the "hearts-in-harmony" inside the middle. The original "hearts-in-harmony" was bright red. But there was a suggestion it should be a dark red. I was wondering if any of the other proposed Taiwanese flags could be posted with the coordinating article. (talk) 08:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

There are a few in relevant Commons categories (commons:Category:Taiwan independence movement, commons:Category:SVG flags of Taiwan), but if they haven't achieved much prominence, or reliable sources aren't available about them, then they probably don't belong on the article... AnonMoos (talk) 08:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Legal voluntary euthanasia and life insurance policies[edit]

I was once reading about insurance policies for racehorses. One of the things mentioned is that insurance generally will only pay out for a euthanized racehorse if the insurer-appointed veterinarians agreed beforehand (i.e. before the euthanasia was carried out) that the horse's condition was hopeless and gave the go-ahead. I assume there may be exceptions for "emergency" situations (e.g. a sudden horrific injury), but that's the general rule.

This got me thinking about a rather similar-but-different situation: Voluntary euthanasia on a human being performed in accordance with the law, in a jurisdiction where it's legal.

Pretty much all life insurance policies have exclusion clauses for suicide - sometimes for an initial period, sometimes permanently, I believe. How do such policies treat voluntary euthanasia - the same as any other suicide? Or are there different rules, and if yes, what are they?

(Please note that this is a totally hypothetical question, and I hope it forever stays that way. I don't plan to die anytime soon. :-) ) (talk) 14:32, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Since the Netherlands is one of the few countries where euthanasia is legal, I'll refer to this website (in Dutch), which is from a Dutch insurance consulting firm. It says that, unlike in cases of suicide, all insurers pay out in cases of euthanasia if conducted after an initial period of two years, and most will even pay out within that two-year period. Do however keep in mind that euthanasia must be approved by a medical panel, and that insurers are allowed to discriminate on the basis of initial medical conditions when it comes to their fees. In order for euthanasia to be approved, medical experts must confirm that the person is suffering unbearably. - Lindert (talk) 14:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
This blog from someone in the insurance industry does suggest these issues should be consider, it doesn't mention any particular examples [57]. (It does suggest exclusions have become less common, although I think this may be more in a change away from a permanent exclusion to a defined period one.) Nil Einne (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


After reading godparent, I have some questions on how this concept may have worked in practice, especially in unusual circumstances. Traditionally, why were parents replaced by other individuals to serve as godparents? (This may be where the secular definition of the term came about, as the secular definition exclusively refers to other individuals.) Was having a godparent absolutely required at a baby's baptism? What would happen if the parents and godparents died off? Where would the orphaned kid go now? Also, in a situation where the mother and father were both converted Catholics (rather than having a familial network of Catholics), it may not be so easy to find a godparent who must be an observant Catholic, because the parents' friends and relatives are all non-Catholics or non-Christians, and they may not be so intimate with their fellow parishioners to allow them be a godparent. (talk) 18:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Baptists don't do infant baptism. So, do they eliminate the godparent role too? (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The godparent is meant to provide additional support in religious upbringing, and adopt the child if the parents die. The parents providing additional support would be like building a table that has one leg in two different spots (although I'm quote aware it's possible to build a table with a single leg, literally and metaphorically, it requires a slightly different arrangement than a table with four legs). Parents who are capable of adopting their own children aren't dead enough for it to matter yet.
Whether or not godparents would be required for baptism varies from denomination to denomination. Calvinists often allow the parent to be the baptism sponsor (and so would not require a godparent to sponsor the baptism). As I recall from what my parents have told me about my Christening, it was just me, my parents, and the Methodist minister. I still had godparents, who were Catholic.
If the godparents die, the adopted kid would probably go with the godparents' kids (if any) to those kids godparents. If not, they would (as in the rest of human history and society) go with some other relatives of their birth parents.
Baptists don't have godparents as sponsors of any sort of baptism, but they are free to have (or not have) godparents any of the other roles godparents might serve. Ian.thomson (talk) 18:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I think that the bit about "adopt the child if the parents die" is a sort of folk custom added on to the actual religious requirements, at least in the Church of England. The Book of Common Prayer, also used by Methodists, only requires that godparents "...promise by you that are his sureties, (until he come of age to take it upon himself,) that he will renounce the devil and all his works, and constantly believe God's holy Word, and obediently keep his commandments".[58] It is a purely religious commitment, to support the child in his or her spiritual development. As a practical matter, if both parents die (as I understand it), the custody of the child would be decided by the contents of the parents will, which may be a relative, godparent, friend or whatever. If there was nobody specified, a court would have to decide; I can't see that being a godparent would carry particular weight in law. Some less-than-reliable references are here, here and here. Alansplodge (talk) 21:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The CoE specifically notes the difference between a legal guardian and god parent [59]. (Actually plenty of other Anglican websites say something similar [60].) And these also not very RS sources (one from a Catholic POV) note additional problems with the god parent/guardian thing in modern times. [61] [62] [63] Beyond often carrying little legal weight nowadays it has other problems including that courts will often try and keep siblings together and of course there will generally only be either a couple in a relationship or an individual as guardian. Yet siblings will often have different god parents and the god parents will often not be married to each other, so there will be multiple choices (I guess not necessarily a bad thing as one may not be able or willing to be guardian, but there's no order for the court to decide which one if multiple are willing). It's generally suggested people who will be legal guardians in the event of death be properly named in the parent's will [64] [65] and of course speak to the people first and make sure they are happy with the arrangement. Of course the courts will still consider the best interest of the children, but it's likely to carry much more weight than god parents. And perhaps just as importantly, unless it was made clear to the god parents this was an expectation (that they be the legal guardian if needed), I think many won't expect it even if it was the tradition in some places. (Of course some may be confused in various ways e.g. [66] and the god parent could also be named in the will as legal guardian if everyone is happy with this arrangement.) Nil Einne (talk) 23:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the converted thing is as much as a problem as you seem to think it would be. Firstly particularly in older times with smaller communities, no internet etc, which you seem to be referring to, it's likely there would often be a resonable level of community involvement in the church/parish. I would suggest this would be particularly so for converts who would we presume be trying to embrace their new found faith. In the particular case of the Catholic church, I think it would be difficult to get through the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults without getting to know other Catholics who could be a god parent (remembering you only need one per child), I suspect even if you're shy or avoid it, it will be sort of forced upon you in most circumstances and if you really completely refuse and have no good reason, there may be doubt that you're ready to become Catholic. So even in modern times, I'm not sure it's likely to be that difficult. If the parents really can't find anyone, the parish priest or someone else may introduce the parents to people perhaps as part of encouraging greater involvement in the parish. (An exception may be in places were Catholics were or are persecuted, I imagine there may sometimes be lower levels of community/parish involvement out of fear. Although there could also be higher levels.) Note also depending on the country, upbringing including schooling and person, whether someone is a convert may have limited influence on whether they have many Catholic friends. For example, in a place like Paraguay, it would seem difficult to not have any Catholic friends, convert or not. Nil Einne (talk) 23:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Funny how traditional practices, that a god-parent would assume the role of parent if the child should be orphaned, would be described as folk beliefs. That's recentism. It is modern custody laws that have interfered with the older long-standing practices. One might as well argue that before the dole, widows and children simply starved to death, ignoring the charity of the community, church, and wider family. μηδείς (talk) 19:31, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

UK Fraud Investigation[edit]

In the UK, what is the difference in the remit between the police and the Serious Fraud Office, in terms of investigating fraud? Does one have more powers than the other? Does more investigate more complex cases than the other? Does the SFO only investigate particular types / areas of fraud? Thanks. asyndeton talk 18:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Please can any comparisons in remits also discuss the National Crime Agency? Thanks. asyndeton talk 18:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure that they rub along somehow, but I can't find an easy answer. The City of London Police have traditionally been the national lead police force in fraud investigation. They operate the City of London Police Economic Crime Directorate and the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau; one of their senior officers is the ACPO National Coordinator for Economic Crime. The National Crime Agency also operates the Economic Crime Command. I'm more puzzled now than when I started. Alansplodge (talk) 21:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Book recommendations for Roman Republican history[edit]

I've recently enjoyed reading Tom Holland's book Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic, which was a very entertaining read, and managed to illuminate both the social trends of the period and the personalities involved. Can anyone recommend any books that deal with the earlier periods of the Roman Republic in a similar way? I appreciate that the sources for late Republic are probably unique for including things like Cicero's letters, which really bring the period to life, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Any suggestions? --Nicknack009 (talk) 19:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Perpetual stew vs pottage[edit]

Perpetual stew vs. pottage. What's the difference, if any? -Modocc (talk) 23:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't think you will get any clear answer. In culinary terms a thin gruel could be called pottage by people living in a different location and what is exactly is a proper stew. In olden times it was more economical in terms of firewood to keep a pot with anything left over from the last meal and add more to it for the next. If one added grain, it had to be boiled to enable the enzyme action to make it sweet, yet any meat, had to be added early so that it slowly warmed and became tender. Perpetual stew, pottage, gruel and porridge, in actuality, probable blended in and out of each other, since the ingredients depended on what was available at that time of year and how much liquid was added that particular day. And who wants to eat exactly the same thing everyday. So, in answer to your question: I don't see any clear demarcation line between any.--Aspro (talk) 01:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The perpetual stew article is sourced, but didn't mention pottage until I added a see also link, and the pottage article is unsourced and claims that pottage originates in Great Britain [67]. Seems dubious, but maybe there is a source for that if that was due to the nature of local cuisine? Or perhaps these are synonyms or near-synonyms, which seems likely, such that the articles are redundant and need merging. I just don't know, which is why I ask. -Modocc (talk) 01:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
You're right. These articles grind with me also. Pottage (as I understand it) is more of soup and a stew does not have added liquid (as in Lancashire hotpot) & gives rise to the saying or idiom to Stew in your own juice. The noun potage may have been brought to Britain by the Normans. Feel free to update these articles. There must be some books on Google books that give good refrences.--Aspro (talk) 21:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
See also Mess of pottage. Alansplodge (talk) 10:10, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I've literally never heard of "pottage" except in the "mess of pottage" context. Nyttend (talk) 00:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
How do/did the cooks prevent spoilage? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Just keep boiling it to kill any microbes. StuRat (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I'd say about $7-8 in an snooty restaurant. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:58, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Having worked as a cook, I know that a pot that's been brought to a boil, has a good seal, and is not opened while it is not boiling, will not spoil unless the seal is broken without reboiling. We'd normally prep soup and rice this way, checking it while it's cooking, but not taking the lid off after it had been left to boil a little more, until it was ready to serve or portion. It frustrates me to no end that certain people will make enough soup for three days, have it boiling on the stove, and then turn the fire off and take the lid off, because "it has to cool down before you put it in the fridge" (when it reaches room temperature) so that it won't spoil. Such people have a magical view of kitchen hygiene, one that does far more harm than just leaving the soup untouched. μηδείς (talk) 19:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
May I also mention the Pottage vs Potage issue? Alansplodge (talk) 21:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

January 30[edit]

Alternatives to Bible Gateway?[edit]

I am interested in reading English (and potentially French) translations of the (Christian) Bible, since I have an intellectual interest in the trappings of Christianity and Judaism. The internet has generally been a good source for this sort of thing -- if I'm not mistaken, there's a Wikisource upload of the Jewish Publication Society translation of the Tanakh, and I can find a lot of New Testament material on Bible Gateway.

However, I also feel at-odds with the people who run Bible Gateway; for instance, they run adverts catering to the evangelical Christian crowd and seem to support politics that I disagree with. In a pinch, I'm fine with using the site, but I'm wondering if there's a similar site elsewhere, preferably run by a nonsectarian group. It's really not a big issue though - in the worst case, I can probably just live off of the JPS translation and public domain uploads of the KJV translation (assuming that the KJV translation is any good). --Morningcrow (talk) 04:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I like the Skeptics Annotated Bible: [68]. StuRat (talk) 04:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I haven't spent enough time on any of them in order to recommend one, but there are a couple more listed in our Category:Online Scripture Search Engine. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
In addition to the ones in Sluzzelin's link, here are a few more: Regarding the KJV, that is not a bad translation, but the underlying Greek text for the New Testament is the Textus Receptus, which is based on a small number of rather late manuscripts. Modern translations use a Greek text reconstructed from far more and earlier manuscripts. So although the differences are not all that great, I'd recommend using a more recent translation such as the ESV or NIV if you want a New Testament that is as close as possible to the originals. For the Old Testament, the KJV is fine if you don't mind the dated language. - Lindert (talk) 08:13, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I just want to add that different Christian groups have and promote different bible versions. The King James Version is considered authoritative by Mormons and some other Protestants, as King James was a Protestant king. It's definitely not a Catholic or Orthodox version, because it skips out the deuterocanonical books entirely, treating them as if they are not inspired. The Bible is not one holy text; rather, it is a collection of texts that is considered to be inspired by Jews and Christians. Jews reject the entire New Testament, and mainstream Christians reject the Book of Mormon to be inspired. So, when you are looking at the Bible, you are not looking at a book. Instead, you are looking at theological tradition. (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The Studylight site might interest you. It's obviously a site run by evangelical Christians, but the range of translations is impressive, starting with Wycliffe, and covering the early editions such as Coverdale and Geneva, with a good range of the modern ones. My only quibble is the absence of the marginal notes in the Geneva bible. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 23:43, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That I'm aware of; honestly I guess you could just say that I'm interested in a translation of the Tanakh (for which JPS will most likely suffice) and the standard Protestant New Testament (which was the main thing I wasn't as sure about, particularly since JPS obviously don't have a translation of that, and I wasn't sure how good KJV (which I can definitely find on nonsectarian sites) or any of the other standard "word for word" translations were). --Morningcrow (talk) 01:19, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
It sounds like you are more in need of a commentary written by somebody that understands Hebrew/Greek, and can tell you where Tanakh translators were guessing, or why John 21:15-17 only works in Greek. I'm guessing you'll have to find these on a book by book basis. Alternatively, I've always worked on comparing modern versions with the King James and looking up the differences in a dictionary. KJV is useful if your Hebrew is as bad as mine - as you say, it's almost word for word. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:31, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The 2013 edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in English is at and (At this moment, the "Book of Matthew" is available in audio.) Also, The Divine Name King James Bible is at
Wavelength (talk) 05:41, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Third Crusade and people on ships[edit]

In Third Crusade#King Richard and King Philip's departure it says, Shortly after setting sail from Sicily, King Richard's armada of 100 ships (carrying 8,000 men) was struck by a violent storm. Do we have a reference source that verifies these numbers?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

A useful source is The Later Crusades: 1189-1311 edited by Kenneth M. Setton, Robert Lee Wolff, Harry W. Hazard which has a substantial Google Books preview. Annoyingly, the relevant pages, 61 and 62 "are not shown in this preview". It does make it plain that our article is wrong; Richard and Philip did not "...set out jointly from Marseille, France for Sicily", they met at Vézelay and set out together on 4 July as far as Lyons where they parted, Richard to Marseilles and Philip to Genoa where he hired a fleet to transport his force (p. 57). Richard's fleet that had left Dartmouth went straight to Sicily via Portugal, rather than meeting Richard in Marseilles as our article says; Richard hired ships in Marseilles for his retinue of 800, which may be an overestimate. I haven't found the answer to your question yet though. Alansplodge (talk) 17:43, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the lead. It will keep me busy meanwhile.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:26, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
No need for Google Books - all 6 volumes of the "Wisconsin History" (as we like to call it) is available online here. Page 61 of volume 2 says Richard had "180 ships and 39 galleys". There was a storm after they left Sicily, and Richard briefly landed on Crete. A footnote on page 62 gives the primary sources for Richard's journey. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah, well done sir! Please note Doug, the caveat on page 57; "When a medieval writer had to guess at a number, he did so with lavish generosity. When he was an eye witness, he made his estimates with dashing carelessness. The figures given by contemporary writers are usually magnificently improbable round numbers." Alansplodge (talk) 19:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Great. You guys sure know your stuff. Thanks. This will keep me busy for some time studying it.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:58, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Not really; a cursory grasp combined with Google I'm afraid (speaking only for myself of course). It's not what you know, it's knowing where to look. Good reading! Alansplodge (talk) 02:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
It looks like you have a better grasp on this than I do. Just one more question and I will get back to my reading and stay out of your hair. If you were to guess (as I haven't found it yet), how many people on King Richard's armada of 180 ships and 39 galleys? A guess is fine, if you don't stumble on an exact number. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Forge, Rev Charles (1870) Richard the First and the Third Crusade, Wyman & Sons, London (p. 91) gives a figure of 20,000 men but gives no sources. That equals 100 men on each ship. Bearing in mind that they had to bring horses as well and given the reservations quoted above, you can be sure that it was probably a lot fewer than that: perhaps half? BTW, I have amended the Third Crusade#King Richard and King Philip's departure section using the references above. Alansplodge (talk) 19:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Some of the ships would have transported horses exclusively - since Wikipedia is blessed with people who love to write about horses, we have a pretty informative article on Horse transports in the Middle Ages. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. That will keep me busy reading and studying all this.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:25, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Everlasting punishment[edit]

Other than Christianity, which religions believe that everyone who doesn't share their religion receives everlasting punishment in hell? Does any exist today? --Bowlhover (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Islam, for one. Google "islamic view of hell" and you'll get plenty of hits that seem to square with the traditional Christian viewpoint. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:04, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Seems you get to wait till the Last Day before going to Jahannam, if your only crime is not believing, and some say you can work your way out. So it's maybe not quite eternal. They have their own version of the Chinvat Bridge, so good deeds alone can help. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:20, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
And does Islam have the same flaw as Christianity, saying that people who lived before Jesus or Mohammed, or otherwise never even heard of Christianity or Islam, can't get into heaven ? Same is true of Judaism too, I suppose. Reincarnation seems the only convenient way around the assumption that "You can't get into heaven unless you accept X", for those who never even heard of X. StuRat (talk) 17:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
You get resurrected first. That alone should make you aware that something credible is happening. Just a matter of asking someone younger what the deal is. Once you're convinced (assuming you weren't a terrible person), should be smooth sailing. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:32, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
According to Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, dead people are unconscious.
Wavelength (talk) 17:31, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I question the OP's premise in relation to Christianity. Which Christian denominations teach that "everyone who doesn't share their religion receives everlasting punishment in hell"? Because I know of quite a few major denominations that teach nothing of the sort. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. Says you can't be saved without the Church, but not necessarily damned. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:43, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
See also Fate of the unlearned. Alansplodge (talk) 17:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
And, with regard to those who lived before Jesus' nativity, see Harrowing of Hell. Deor (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
No, InedibleHulk, it doesn't say that you can't be saved without the Church. See the section "Inculpable ignorance":
  • In its statements of this doctrine, the Church expressly teaches that "it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God";[6] that "outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control";[6] and that "they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life."[8]
  • Inculpable ignorance is not a means of salvation.[21] But if by no fault of the individual ignorance cannot be overcome (if, that is, it is inculpable and invincible), it does not prevent the grace that comes from Christ, a grace that has a relationship with the Church, saving that person. Thus it is believed that God would make known to such a person before the moment of death, by either natural or supernatural means, the Catholic faith, since "without [such] faith it is impossible to please God", and this entails, for even the unbaptized, at the very least baptism of desire.
Given that those who never even heard of Jesus and the Church WAY outnumber those who have (since the beginning of humanity), this means that Heaven is full of mainly non-believers. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That says God would give the invincibly ignorant (I like that phrase) a crash course, before the moment of death. So they'd still be in the Church, briefly, but long enough. And mercy is at God's discretion. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:09, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
I'm ashamed to admit that this is a surprise to me. I thought the damnation of non-believers is almost universally accepted by Christians. Which major denominations don't teach it? --Bowlhover (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The Catholic Church, for one. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Might that depend on your local church's teachings? I mean some Catholic churches ignore Vatican II. I attended a Jesuit high school as a non-Catholic. Nobody outright told me I would burn in hell (that's usually more the game the evangelical christians play), but I recall them telling me that John 14:6 was about non-Christians not being able to be saved [69], straight from the mouth of Jesus. I'm way out of my element here, just wanted to point out that, outside of formal dogma and creeds (of which many of the faithful are ignorant anyway), you'll find a lot of variety in interpretation even among one Christian sect. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I think we're misunderstanding each other. My question was really about the modern world, not people before the founding of the religion or in remote uncontacted regions. Almost everybody today has heard of the major world religions, albeit not necessarily in any detail, so they're surely not "invincibly ignorant". (BTW, thank you Baseball Bugs for pointing out Islam. I thought I understood Islam's views on hell, but obviously not.) --Bowlhover (talk) 04:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that people who died without knowing Jehovah will be resurrected and will learn about him. (
Wavelength (talk) 21:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It's taught pretty unambiguously by the Athanasian Creed, which is accepted by many denominations (see Ecumenical creeds):
"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. (...) Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. (...) And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.". - Lindert (talk) 18:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
At risk of the obvious: have a good look at Hell. Many Jewish people don't believe there is a hell, so of course they don't think non-Jews get eternal punishment. The Unitarians aren't big on exclusion or fire and brimstone either, inclusion is central enough to be part of their name. Taoism has no concept of Hell as far as I know, and only some parts of Hinduism acknowledge hell. I suppose there might be concepts of eternal punishment that aren't Hell-like (e.g. endless reincarnation into lives of suffering), but our article is pretty comprehensive. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't know much about the Sikhs but Sikhism#Liberation makes it pretty clear that they're not down with heaven, hell, or reincarnation. So it doesn't look like they think I'm going to be tormented for not being a Sikh. Like Judaism, Sikhs don't aggressively recruit, and may actually dissuade would-be converts. My general rubric is, the religions/sects that aggressively recruit are the most likely to think everyone else will burn. It's a compelling argument (to some) - "join us, or suffer eternally". SemanticMantis (talk) 20:23, 30 January 2015 (UTC) (P.S. Oops, sorry, I misread the question, and was answering as though there was a "does not believe" in there. I'll leave these links though, as they at least rule out many candidates :)

Colonialism in Africa[edit]

There are many writers and resources that are about the negatives of colonialism in Africa. However were there any prolific writers or books that view colonialism in Africa as a positive, and a good thing? --Preston pig (talk) 18:37, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Cui bono? I'm sure you can find books by Dutch, British, and French authors of the time who were very happy about how the whole thing was working out for them. For example the directors of the Dutch East India Company were likely very positive about the Dutch Cape Colony. I suppose you'd find some warlords in modern Africa that owe their power to the Belgian_Congo, so they might be more positive on the whole business as well.
Our article on Colonialism has a long section on impacts. Most don't seem very positive for the Africans. I see no comment there on any modern perspectives that think it was good for Africa.
Searching a bit more, I find these three books [70] [71] [72]. None of them say it was generally positive or good for Africa, but they discuss some positives as well as negatives. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
A more modern study is The Legacy of Western Overseas Colonialism on Democratic Survival (2004); "We find that Western overseas colonialism, a factor often overlooked in recent large-n studies, continues to have an effect on the survival of democratic regimes". You may also be interested in this 2005 article; French angry at law to teach glory of colonialism. Alansplodge (talk) 20:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Is that a positive continuing effect, or just an effect? I mean, are they saying that western colonialism has generally helped democratic regimes to survive/persist in Africa? SemanticMantis (talk) 21:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Sorry! forgot to link it - try this. Bit of a long read I'm afraid. Alansplodge (talk) 02:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]

Both the president and vice president attending the White House Correspondents' Dinner[edit]

I was watching some old White House Correspondents' Dinner videos on youtube and noticed that the event is never attended by both the president and vice president in the same year. In some years it's president, and in others, the vice president. Is this actually the case? Has there been a recent case where both of them attended the dinner? Has there been a case where neither of them attended? WinterWall (talk) 04:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

They do try to limit the risk of both being killed together by reducing the number of public appearances featuring both at once. Of course, there are events where both are expected, such as the State of the Union address. In those cases, somebody else in the Presidential line of succession is kept safe, offsite, as the designated survivor. StuRat (talk) 05:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Lady Windermere's Fan[edit]

So, there's this article about play and it's a good thing that it has recording of the play as well. I want to ask some questions related to it.

  1. How can it be considered as comedy ? Yes, there are some lines spoken which I find it to be comedy. But, in which things a listener should know the play is comedy ?
  2. What aspects should be in a play to consider it s play?
  3. It would be great if there were recordings of the play like this . Are there any?

Learnerktm 07:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I've never read that play, but according to traditional definitions, a tragedy play generally has several deaths near the end, while most other plays are comedies... AnonMoos (talk) 10:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
In the theatre it is often the case that "comedy" has a slightly different meaning from other usages. Basically, you know you've seen a comedy if you leave the theatre in a light and happy mood. This doesn't mean that there won't be sad bits in the play, and in a good comedy there will be bits that make you think, but the resolution of the play should be that of a "happy ending", though perhaps not the one that you expect (see, for example, The Merry Wives of Windsor, where the happiness of the protagonist at the end is most decidedly bitter-sweet).
As for recordings of the play, I was able to find a production on YouTube. I was also able to find several other comedies, including several of Shakespeare's - Twelfth Night, As You Like It, Measure for Measure (audio only), and so on. RomanSpa (talk) 11:33, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
AnonMoos, AnonMoos RomanSpa

The play Lady Windermere's Fan has its recording within the article. If there were more like that, it would have been great.

) Thanks a lot for the info.

Learnerktm 12:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Japanese Buddhist underworld[edit]

Special:Random led me to Sanzu River and Keneō. How do these concepts fit into the concept of reincarnation, which I thought was central to all of Buddhism? If you're crossing something like the Styx for the afterlife, it doesn't seem like you're going to be reincarnated. Nyttend (talk) 14:36, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Could look at Naraka (Buddhism)... -- AnonMoos (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Reincarnation and underworlds (or heavens or hells) aren't incompatible. Most forms of Buddhism usually teach that there are heavens and hells, they're just temporary -- at worst, there to zero out one's karma; at best, a safe spot for someone to achieve enlightenment (invariably a heaven, though heavens present the danger of being too enjoyable to accept that existence is ultimately discontentment). Some Greek mystery religions followed a similar train of thought: the river Lethe was what prevented us from remembering past lives.
Laurence Waddell's Buddhism of Tibet (a touch old but mostly good if one ignores about anything west of Pakistan) has a chapter on of Tibetan Buddhist underworlds, and (IIRC) discusses their relationship to earlier Indian Buddhism as well as East Asian Buddhism. Japanese Buddhism had influence from native Shinto, but was otherwise derived from Chinese, Tibetan, and Indian Buddhism. (As for Greek mystery religions, it's been years since I've read it, but I think Harold Willoughby's Pagan Regeneration covers that topic). Ian.thomson (talk) 18:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
The real idea about reincarnation is that it happens every millisecond in your life, and even to inanimate objects like rocks. This is not the idea most people have - wishing they will be reborn as a happier person, which is the cause of suffering (or one of them). It's just common sense and common physics. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 02:42, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

How are patron saints supposed to work in practice?[edit]

As far as I know, each town, village, city, and even a person may have or be named after a patron saint. In many Christian communities, these patron saints may be celebrated than an individual's own birthday. Yet, a patron saint may have a specific patronage. St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, is the patron saint for academics, because he was primarily an academic. If a community somehow gets St. Thomas Aquinas as a patron saint, then does that mean that the other saints are treated less reverently? Do the other saints serve any purpose at all, even though every saint has its own patronage? If the Virgin Mary is a saint, and she is not the patron saint of a community, then does that mean she would actually receive less reverence than the patron saint? (talk) 17:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

If a member of your church replaced a busted door on your house while a deacon visited you in the hospital, would you treat one better than the other?
People who are likely to ask for a saint's intercession generally don't use a saint as a catch-all just because they're under a saint's patronage. For example, a teacher probably wouldn't ask Thomas Aquinas for help finding their car keys, but instead Anthony of Padua (patron saint of lost stuff, and so probably couch cushions and laundry drying machines by association). God tends to be the only catch-all for prayer. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:49, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Michael is also very versatile, taking calls from warriors and the suffering. He'll raze your village, and then raise it. Maybe the first profiteer. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:45, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
The deacon is most likely going to receive the fancy title of address, while the member of the laity will probably be addressed less formally. The years of training at divinity school, as well as possible practice in the field, should have given the deacon more respect than the Average Guy on the street. (talk) 18:20, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I wonder if a person can ask a saint to talk with the other saints in heaven about something. So, even when something falls out of the patronage of a particular saint, another saint - well versed in the subject - can adequately take over. (talk) 18:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Unlikely, as both you and the saint would by definition be dead. Sorry to wake you up to reality, but that's it. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 05:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
It's to be hoped that the OP is talking "Catholic theology theory" here, hence the title how is it "supposed" to work. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
That might be how we ended up with camels. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:49, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
For "how it's supposed to work", we have an article about the Intercession of saints. The 1914 Catholic Encyclopedia has an article as well although it is, as you might expect, much more heavily biased :) There is one about patron saints too. Adam Bishop (talk) 09:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Videos of ISIS hostage beheadings[edit]

Perhaps someone can shed light on this for me. This question is regarding videos of ISIS hostage beheadings that have become so commonplace recently. How/why is it that these hostages seem so calm and non-combative, I am wondering? I have heard some theories, but I'd like to know if others can shed some light on this "phenomenon". These are some theories that I have heard. (1) The hostage is resigned and knows the situation to be hopeless. Therefore, what can he really do? (2) The hostages have been through many "mock" executions. So, they never really know that this is the "real" execution versus the many other "fake" ones that they had endured. (3) If the hostage is uncooperative, the captors will increase their brutality towards him during the execution. Those are some theories that I have heard. It always seems to "surprise" me that these hostages seem so "calm", almost oblivious. (Are they perhaps drugged/sedated by the captors?) So, I would think (but I am not sure) that one's instinct of survival kicks in, and they would be kicking and screaming. So, does anyone know anything about all this? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

When they were captured, they probably kicked and screamed in alarm. For a while longer, they resisted. After a bit, they're exhausted. It's called the General Adaptation Syndrome. Fits pretty much any high-stress situation normal people face.
King Goujian of Yue used to convince his prisoners to line up in the front of battle formations and slit their own throats, mainly to freak out the other side long enough to sneak around back. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:52, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
An interesting read. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:16, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
If you're down for something longer, Psychological Operations in Guerrila Warfare is still generally relevant. Much of what guerrilas do overlaps with how they're trained. That's not to say the CIA trained ISIS, just that the concepts still work. Section 3's the most relevant to getting people to accept and repeat your message. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:27, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
Very often they are already dead, after escape attempts. They are shot, then propped up to look like they are still alive, with obviously fake screaming while they are beheaded, because these people who do this think we are stupid. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 02:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I haven't seen these videos, is there an article about this (I'm agnostic but feel it's disrespectful to view such videos)? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 12 Shevat 5775 04:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, here is the article: ISIL beheading incidents. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
When we start seeing videos of ISIS hostage-takers getting beheaded, then we'll be making progress. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I think even Jesus would approve. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 12 Shevat 5775 04:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Which Jesus would that be? Apparently not the "turn the other cheek" one. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 09:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The only thing we can do is convince these people to not travel to a very dangerous warzone, for whatever 'humanitarian' reasons they may think they have, and leave the locals to kill each other, as they are already doing. There is plenty of humanitarian work to be done here in God's Own Islands. They may say "But, it's an experience..." Yes, it may be, but not one that you will live to remember. I hope this epidemic of 'making me feel good in the guise of humanitarianism' will end soon, as we are paying taxes just to bring the bodies back, if we can find them. These peoople don't want our help - they want publicity and our money. Why no just shower them with fake dollars, and destroy their economy with hyperinflation - that would work. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 06:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
It might have been interesting if Japan had gone again and paid the ransom, only to find that their two citizens had already been killed by their hostage takers - as with the Lindbergh baby kidnapping, for example. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


January 25[edit]


From the article: "Theonyms have been particularly useful in understanding the connections of Indo-European languages." Why might this be the case? ÷seresin 20:57, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

That word "particularly" is exaggeration to the point of falsity. The Indo-European mythology is of interest, but many of the terms show what is probably tabu replacement. Of much more importance is the common grammatical forms of the Proto-Indo-European language and the Swadesh list and various cultural words having to do with technology and animal husbandry. What you want is the expensive and rare Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture by James Mallory (Editor), D.Q. Adams (Editor), but available in pdf at Scribd, or the accessible and encyclopedic The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World by J. P. Mallory (Author), D. Q. Adams (Author) (here at Amazon). μηδείς (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
There is also the phenomenon of assimilation and adoption which makes the topic quite complex. The Roman treatment of foreign gods is famous, see also evocatio. μηδείς (talk) 18:03, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Another Arabic request[edit]

In I need the text for the name of en:American School of Palestine and I also would like to have the Arabic street address.

Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 23:17, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Name: مدرسة فلسطین الامیرکیة
Address: ١٥ شارع بیت نبالا، البیرة، ص.ب ٦٨٥، رام الله، فلسطین . Omidinist (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 04:34, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

January 26[edit]

Using parentheses[edit]

Which of the following two sentences are correct?

  1. This is a sentence (With an add-on).
  2. This is a sentence (with an add-on).

I know which I prefer and I also know which is quite common on Wikipedia. Also is this some sort of English variant? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 16:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The 2nd, I believe, for a sentence fragment. Of course, in your example I wouldn't use parens at all. I'd only capitalize a standalone sentence, like so:
This is a sentence (although, admittedly, not much of one).
This is a sentence. (Although, I admit, it wasn't much of a sentence.)
StuRat (talk) 17:03, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The word "although" is a subordinate conjunction, for introducing a subordinate clause, and it requires a main clause, either before it or after it, in the same sentence. Without a main clause, a subordinate clause is a sentence fragment. The adverb "however" has a similar meaning, but is not synonymous with it.
Wavelength (talk) 17:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I was curious as to which capitalisation within the parentheses was correct. Of course I can't find an example right now. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Definitely 2. One begins a parenthesis with a capital letter only when what precedes it is a complete sentence ending with a full stop (period). Compare the first example sentence in WP:MOS#Sentences and brackets. Deor (talk) 20:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Further, if the opening parenthesis comes in the middle of a sentence in the outer content, the parenthetical content doesn't take a period of its own even if it is a complete sentence. (It may take an exclamation or question mark.) In formal writing this sort of construct is best avoided. On the other hand, if the parenthetical content is outside of any sentence in the outer content, is is punctuated and capitalized normally.
  • If that noise was a bear (any kind of bear), we're in danger.
  • If that noise was a bear (he thinks it is), we're in danger.
  • If that noise was a bear (does he think it is?), we're in danger.
  • If that noise was a bear, we're in danger. (He thinks it is.)
If the parenthetical content is two or more complete sentences, it's best to keep it outside of any outer sentence.
  • If that noise was a bear, we're in danger. (He thinks it is. There are lots of them around here.)
-- (talk) 22:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
This is off-topic, which hardly ever happens at the Reference Desk. I say it only because (1) we're at the Language Reference Desk, and (2) it's obvious that you care about using the language correctly, or you wouldn't have started this thread. No offense intended. It's Which of the following two sentences is correct?. The subject, "which", is singular. That is, unless you intended that both of the following might be correct. ―Mandruss  22:55, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks everybody. I should have guessed that there was something in the MOS but for some reason I didn't think of it. That and the MOS is far to large. I've seen quite a few sentences where the first word in the parentheses is capitalised and it almost always looks wrong. User:Mandruss I'm not offended. It would take a lot more than that to offend me. I wasn't too sure if the capitalisation was an English variant or not. It was possible that both of them could have been correct. I must admit that if after 40 years of living up here I'm not surprised that I make the odd language mistake. I'm surprised that I don't make more. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 10:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Dafydd ab Owain Gwynedd in English and Welsh[edit]

I know how Dafydd, Owain, and Gwynedd are pronounced, but how is "ab" pronounced both in English renderings of the name and in proper Welsh? Also, does the /b/ have various allophones, or cause mutation or other sorts of sandhi phenomena in different contexts (e.g., pre-consonantally)? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Nothing to do with consonant mutation in this case, just that "ap" is used before consonants and "ab" before vowels (incidentally that is how we get the surnames "Powell" and "Bowen"). Adam Bishop (talk) 21:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
That helps, are these [ap] and [ab] or is the vowel reduced or different from [a] in English or Welsh? I have never heard such names pronounced. μηδείς (talk) 21:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The vowel is not reduced in Welsh. I don't know of any convention for how Welsh names are pronounced in English - I would generally pronounce them more or less as Welsh even when talking English. --ColinFine (talk) 21:55, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I'd use [ap] and [ab], not [əp] and [əb]. Some speakers of conservative RP in the UK would change [a] to [æ] if they were not familiar with Welsh. It's a stronger word in Welsh than "of" in English that tends to get reduced to [əv] and [ə]. The Irish "O'" tends to retain its strong form, unlike the equivalent in my local dialect that tends to get reduced (e.g. "Bill [ə] Ben's", but this usage is now almost extinct, I think). Dbfirs 22:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

It's Greek to me[edit]

I'm trying to determine what this Ysplix article is referring to, it's probably the result of a translation or transliteration error. The urls in the article are no longer valid except for this that I dug out of webarchive. When I run it through google translate it does say the item is a "Ysplix"; anyone know what the closest equivalent in English would be? Vrac (talk) 20:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's an early form of what we normally call a "starting gate" in English -- sure enough, the "see also" section of that article links to Hysplex, which is just a different romanization of "Ysplix", though the Hysplex article makes more sense, and has some English-language references. Based on content, the Ysplix article should be deleted, and "Ysplix" should redirect to the Hysplex article. (Or shuffle things the other way if it can be shown that "Ysplix" is the more common Romanization.) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I've redirected Ysplix to Hysplex. The ancient Greek word was ὕσπληξ (Liddell & Scott, sense 3), for which hysplex would be the normal romanization. "Ysplix" (or "Isplix") looks like a representation based on how the word would be pronounced in Modern Greek. Deor (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @Deor: ! SemanticMantis (talk) 20:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks all. Vrac (talk) 20:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

what is the meaning of swarajit (in bengali)?[edit]

what is the meaning of swarajit(in bengali)?Swarajit110 (talk) 13:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)26/01/2015§

This would be an excellent Q for the Language Ref Desk. StuRat (talk) 17:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Done. μηδείς (talk) 20:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If you provide (or if someone else provides) the spelling in Bengali characters, then you or I or someone else can search for it in
Wavelength (talk) 21:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
We have an article on Swaraj ("self-rule")... AnonMoos (talk) 00:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorting Arabic names[edit]

Hello, I am composing a table of people which needs to be sorted alphabetically (based on WP standards for sorting people by name). I am not at all familiar with Arabic names, and so I was hoping that someone might tell me how these two can be sorted: Ismail Loufti Bey and Al-Farouki Samy Pasha. P.S. They are taken from British sources over 100 years old. Many thanks, —Noswall59 (talk) 22:34, 26 January 2015 (UTC).

The first rule is to throw away the definite article prefix when alphabetizing. Beyond that, it may be difficult to offer much guidance that will be valid in all situations, since traditional Arabic names can be quite complex, and may or may not contain a component similar in function to a European surname. Sometimes it's best to go by the nisba, but Saddam Hussein's nisba was "al-Tikriti". In your examples, Bey and Pasha are honorifics originally taken from Turkish... AnonMoos (talk) 00:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Okay, thank you. Am I right in thinking that it would likely be "Lofti, Ismail" for the one, and "Farouki, Samy Al-" for the other? —Noswall59 (talk) 11:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC).
You can sort names with "al-" and "ibn" by the second part, so "al-Farouki, Samy", under "F". Although if this is for invisible sorting of Wikipedia categories, it would have to be "Farouki Samy". Adam Bishop (talk) 14:49, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]

How pronounce "CARMEN" ?[edit]

Is it like "CAR" + "MEN" ?

Learnerktm 09:17, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

In which language? English or Spanish? If English - rhotic or non-rhotic? I (non-rhotic, Northern British English) pronounce it as /'kɑːmən/. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
KägeTorä - () Thank you for your answer. But I just want to know it's general pronounciation, which is mostly spoken. So, I guess that should be english. Actually, I didn't undersand your answer at all. Sorry to say that. :( Just to ask, if I pronounce "CAR" first and then "MEN" altogether. Will it be ok?
Learnerktm 12:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It's a Spanish word, not English. It can be used (and is, in fact) as a girl's name in English. If you don't understand IPA, then the best I can give you is 'kah-muhn', for the English pronunciation, with the inital syllable stressed. If you pronounce the second syllable like 'men', then you will give that syllable undue stress. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 13:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It's a Latin word. —Tamfang (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It is also Spanish. I used to live in a place called Puerto del Carmen when I was a kid. There is no need for a correction here, as we could also say it was Chinese 卡门 or whatever other contemporary (i.e. non-ancient) language that uses that word. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 08:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Did I say it's not also Spanish? —Tamfang (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
You could have phrased it as "It's also a Latin word" or "It's originally a Latin word", which would be better, though irrelevant, as the OP is from Nepal and would be doing his ten-minute appearance in English. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 07:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
'kah-muhn' would work in Boston, where you pok your kah. Maine, New Hampshire, etc, I'm not sure, they do vowels differently sometimes. I think almost anywhere else in Amurka it would be 'kar-muhn'. MHO. ―Mandruss  13:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
So to sum up, in nonrhotic dialects it's pronounced pretty much like how they'd pronounce car-men in nonrhotic dialects, whereas elsewhere it's pronounced more like how they'd pronounce car-men elsewhere. I trust that the OP is duly grateful for the distinction. —Tamfang (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
As someone who grew up in the US Midwest and now lives in New England, US, I have always pronounced it and heard it pronounced as "CAR-min". Dismas|(talk) 13:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Since the OP is the same one who asked a question about drama on another desk, I sense he may be referring to the opera Carmen. In which case, it's based on the French pronunciation of a Spanish first name, which in fact would be close to "CAR" + "MEN", although the "R" is not English one. The original Spanish would have a somewhat different pronunciation as well. --Xuxl (talk) 13:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Carmen is a fully nativized English name, and is pronounced as Dismas says, CARmin, where the "i" is a (reduced vowel) schwi. μηδείς (talk) 22:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
    • I would have said "CAR-m'n". I guess that's pretty much what you're saying. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
    • For any given value of "CAR" (that is, however your dialect would pronounce the actual word "car" it is generally pronounced like that in Carmen as well. But Medeis is spot on with the second, non-stressed, syllable). --Jayron32 03:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Agree. I thought that's what was meant by the "muhn", and didn't feel like going to get a ə character (and not everyone would know what ə means in any case). ―Mandruss  03:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
What Bugs has said agrees with me, it's a question of preferences. Some people transcribe the final syllable of bottle, bottom, button and butter as if the had a schwa/schwi-l,m,n,r sequence, and some as if they are syllabic consonants as in rhythm or schism and various Slavic languages. μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

IPA & Stress[edit]

The above question got me thinking. The phrase 'Come on!' in my dialect has a rising intonation, so the 'on' is pronounced at a higher pitch than the 'come' (though both have rising intonation). Both are more or less equally stressed. As it is only two syllables, I find it strange to mark both of them with stress marks. Would this be normal in IPA? Is there a way to mark stress for the first syllable 'come', and then a stronger stress for the second 'on'? Also, using a computer, how do I mark the intonation itself? KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Intonation (linguistics) demonstrates the use of "arrows" to mark intonation and also gives the Unicode for using these symbols with a computer. I also favor using [ꜛ] to indicate a sharper rise (or comparatively higher pitch) in intonation than a [↗] --William Thweatt TalkContribs 13:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm no good at intonation in IPA, but in my dialect, the sarcastic pronunciation of "Come on!" is ['kʌ:-m̩ 'ɔən] which one can imagine Elaine from Seinfeld saying. μηδείς (talk) 22:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

Infinitive-like gerund?![edit]

Hi there, I thought about those 2 sentences, and I realized that both are correct:
(1)I saw her talking.
(2)I saw her talk.
While in 1, the adverb (correct me if it isn't) is gerund,
I can't classify the adverb in the 2nd sentence.
I mean, I realize that the first is much more progressive action, and the 2nd is more completed?
But I can't classify it, I mean if it were infinitive it would look like:
I saw her to talk*
And it doesn't make any sense.
01:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exx8 (talkcontribs)

It's a bare infinitive. See the coverage on the topic in the Wikipedia article on the use of English verb forms. -- (talk) 02:26, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I think the above is right - bare infinitive. But I don't think the first is technically a gerund. I think in your first example "talking" is a present participle acting adjectivally, as described at Gerund#Distinction_from_other_uses_of_the_-ing_form. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:43, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
SM's right. "Talking to him is exasperating" would be an example of a gerundial use of talk. English used to have separate forms, but they merged to -ing after Chaucer. German retains the difference: Bedutung "meaning" comes from the gerund, and bedeutend "meaningful" is the participial form. English has lost the -end form and merged the two under -ing. μηδείς (talk) 18:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]


January 25[edit]

Happiness is...[edit]

I listen to older stuff in general, so I don't know much about popular music. Beginning several months ago, I've occasionally heard a song in public places (e.g. fast food restaurants) that repeats a line, seemingly "Happiness is [rest] the way you feel". It's a male singer with an American accent. Can anyone guess what the song is, and/or the correct lyrics? Google provides six results for "happiness is the way you feel"; presumably I'd get lots more hits for something that's been popular now for several months. Nyttend (talk) 06:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy by Pharrell Williams. Here's a clip. StuRat (talk) 06:36, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
And here's the best video of the same song is called Happy British Muslims. Watch it and your day will be infinitely better. On a side-note, if you get these burning questions in the future, but don't want to use RefDesk, the try getting Soundhound on your phone or tablet. It's remarkably accurate (as in it will be spot on with the exact rendition of the song). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 6 Shevat 5775 07:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Google "room without a roof" and you'll probably get plenty of hits. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:48, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
And if you like older stuff, here's one from the 60s,[73] and one of the TV commercials it spawned.[74]Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Another question about DeflateGate[edit]

Here is another question about DeflateGate. There has been some theory (and, perhaps, even a defense by the Patriots) that the weather somehow caused the footballs to deflate. (I believe that's what I have been reading in the news.) How would that explain that the footballs of only one team deflated, while the footballs of the other did not? Has that issue been raised? Is there any plausible (innocent) explanation that would allow one set of footballs to deflate, yet not the other set? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:17, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

No, unless the Colts' footballs were also deflated and no one caught it. One recent report said that the game balls in the second half were monitored by the officials. The second half is when the Patriots got the majority of their scoring. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Apologists have suggested that the Colts inflated their balls at the top of the allowed range and the Patriots at the bottom. Hence, when they were taken into the cold outdoors, the Colts' balls stayed within the range and the Patriots' fell below it. However, this newspaper article writer consulted a physics professor, who didn't find it at all plausible. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Contestants appearing on a game show[edit]

[This was moved from Misc desk ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)]

I believe I have read that they often tape several episodes of game shows on the same day, back to back (which will later broadcast on different days to the TV public). As such, the game-show host will change his clothes several times, so that each taping (of each new episode) appears like it was filmed on a different date altogether. My question concerns the clothing of the contestants. First, do contestants wear their own clothes on the show? (I can't imagine that the TV show buys each contestant a new wardrobe.) Second, do the contestants also change clothes in between same-day episode filming, in the same way that the host does? Third – and most importantly, to me – does anyone know if the show gives the contestants any set of "rules" about their apparel? A list of things that they are allowed (or not allowed) to wear? I am curious if anyone knows anything about this topic. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:23, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I appeared on University Challenge. We were told not to wear clothes that were too "busy" - that is, would be a distraction for the viewers (I can't remember the exact phrasing), not to wear white, and to take a plain jersey in case something had to be covered up. We were also told not to wear anything that could be construed as advertising, or as supporting a product or political or social cause. Multiple episodes were filmed, but they shuffled the audience around a bit so that supporters from the unis currently being recorded are at the front; I suppose this is so they can get louder cheers. RomanSpa (talk) 16:55, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Interesting. So, did they tell you to bring several days of clothing? Or did you wear the same outfit in all of the different episodes (taped on the same day)? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Same outfit, though because of the way the contest works you get breaks between the first round and later rounds. I just kept things simple, though I think someone put a jersey on (the studio is much colder than you think it's going to be if you're in the first recording of the day). It's not really the sort of show where people pay much attention to clothing. RomanSpa (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I was on Eggheads, and we were told to wear a shirt of a single colour if possible as patterns like checks and stripes can cause moiré effects on screen - that's what causes the distraction, not the patterns themselves. Our team were only going to be on one episode, but they asked us to bring two or three shirts each so we didn't all end up wearing the same colour. There were several episodes shot on the same day, and they sat us in the studio for quite some time, explaining the rules and making sure we all knew where the cameras were, which one to look at when, where to go for the solo rounds, where the cables were so we didn't trip over them and so on, before the regular "eggheads" and the host showed up, so they would have had plenty of time to change. --Nicknack009 (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
On The Price is Right, where the audience is full of potential contestants, nobody is allowed to wear advertising or costumes. They also ban you from the building if you have game show experience and don't offer parking. You will be "processed" in a "holding area". It's a very challenging career path. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:49, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
And you can apparently bring a chest, so long as it's not an ice chest. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:51, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
Here, they stress "ABSOLUTELY NO OPEN-TOED SHOES, NO HIGH HEELS, NO PLATFORMS, AND NO SANDALS OR FLIP FLOPS OF ANY KIND WILL BE ALLOWED INSIDE THE STUDIO." I guess CBS has been sued by a viral video star or two. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:58, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
Yep. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:59, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Ken Jennings in his book Brainiac: Adventures in the Curious, Competitive, Compulsive World of Trivia Buffs talks about his first day arriving to play Jeopardy!:

As the guard at the gate checks IDs, I open the passenger-side back door to pull out the two spare changes of clothes that Jeopardy! asks you to bring.
The clothes aren't there.
As we file into the greenroom, I am conspicuously the only contestant not finding a place to hang a bulky garment bag.

Fortunately his wife is with him and she manages to retrieve the clothes from where he'd left them. Anyway, he goes on to address the point explicitly:

If you win your game, you have no time to revel in your victory, call your mom, or do a Terrell Owens end zone dance. You and Alex are rushed backstage to change outfits—in separate dressing rooms, mind you—and as soon as your skirt is zipped or your tie is tied, you're yanked back on set to start all over again. Alex's clever introductory repartee pretends to the home audience that twenty-four hours have passed. ("On yesterday's show, folks—and it must have been yesterday, mind you, not ten minutes ago, because you'll notice that I'm wearing a blue tie now, and yesterday, as these photos reveal, I had a maroon one on...") Five separate shows back-to-back makes for an exhausting day.

-- (talk) 19:13, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

The World Wrestling Federation used to regularly tape a month's worth of squash matches in one or two long days. To compensate for the human inability to care that long, they often inserted crowd noise and reaction shots to the later end, post-production. If you don't look at them, these people seem pumped! InedibleHulk (talk) 19:40, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
Here is the handout I was given:
Jeopardy! Wardrobe Information
Answer: Less than 10 minutes
Question: What is "How long does the returning champ have to change clothes between shows"?
That's right folks. About 10 minutes. That's how we manage to tape five shows in one day. Alex does it, and you can too. The key is to PLAN AHEAD. Because believe me, if you are a returning champ the last thing you want to be thinking about is what to wear on the next show.
Arrive at the studio in the outfit you would like to wear on your first show. Bring with you a total of two outfits for a total of 3 outfits. (After all, if you win three shows NOBODY is going to remember what you wore on the first night anyway.) The rule of thumb when selecting your wardrobe is to wear what you would wear on an important job interview. Naturally we want you to be comfortable, but we also want to see you looking your best.
This applies to BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. No jeans. No sneakers. No solid white or pale colors. Also, avoid any fine prints or very busy patterns or plaids as they do not play well on the video camera. A light dress shirt or blouse is okay, but ONLY if it is worn under a dark jacket or sweater.
Dress shirt with a sport coat or sweater, suit and and tie. These are the kind of upscale looks we're going for. Remember: you are standing behind the podium most of the time, so as long as you wear a nice pair of slacks and shoes you can really make it easy on yourself by just changing your shirt, adding a sweater, or putting on a new coat and tie. (Incidentally, a dark-colored long-sleeved shirt and a tie is okay, but we'd prefer that you dress it up a bit with a sweater, coat, or vest.)
Best colors are the basics: Red, Royal Blue, etc. For your own personal comfort (and to facilitate the process of attaching a microphone to your garments), you may want to avoid one-piece outfits. We also suggest that you leave long necklaces at home. Skirt and blouse, blazer with skirt or slacks, pantsuits, any of these looks are fine. But remember; stay away from from any pieces that are predominantly white or very pale. When you arrive at the studio, please make sure that your hair and make-up are completely done. We also suggest that you choose a bright-colored lipstick.
Lastly, you should know that it can be very cool in the studio during tape days (whether it is warm outside or not), so it might be a good idea to bring along a light sweater or jacket to be comfortable while watching the shows until you are chosen to play.
These are simply some guidelines to help you make your choices. If you should have a favorite outfit that you're not sure about, by all means bring it along and we'll see if it will work on camera. And, as always, if you have any questions at any time, don't hesitate to give us a call.
So I didn't get to wear my "I'm with Stupid" t-shirt, with the arrow pointing to one of my competitors. (Also, they didn't use a very good proofreader ["3" and an inappropriate use of a semicolon].) Clarityfiend (talk) 11:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

January 26[edit]

2015 Miss Universe Pageant[edit]

At about 10:45 p.m. while watching the live broadcast of the Miss Universe Pageant on NBC, I wondered when the last time a Miss USA won the title. I checked Wikipedia and before the announcement was made on the live broadcast, Wikipedia announced that Miss Columbia was the "current" Miss Universe and had been crowned on January 25, 2015 in Miami.

How is it that the name of the winner was posted on Wikipedia before it was announced on the live broadcast? (talk) 04:16, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea. But it could be a case of simple vandalism. I often work on the "Academy Awards" articles. And, on Awards night, a lot of people are fooling around and naming their favorite person as the winner. And, within a few seconds, the vandalism edit gets removed. It's pretty common on very current competitions. This probably happens with the Super Bowl, and stuff like that as well. But, on the plus side: when an event is current, there are usually many eyes on that page. So, vandalism gets removed pretty quickly. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
What time zone are you in? The event apparently started at 8 PM in Florida and the NBC air time was 8/7c, meaning it was live in the eastern and central time zones and tape delayed by 2+ hours elsewhere in the US. -- BenRG (talk) 08:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Good point. I had assumed that the original poster was watching it live. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The IP geolocates to Florida but that is not conclusive. One question is was the broadcast three hours long? Here is another possible explanation - ever since Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction (if not before) live events aren't actually live. With the exception of sports (and maybe even those) there is a minute or two delay built into a broadcast. I remember when Melissa Leo dropped the "f" bomb at her Oscar acceptance speech we didn't even hear a bleep it just looked like she had shifted an inch to her left at that point. So someone in the pageant audience might have added the info a couple minutes before it was seen on TV. Now I haven't looked at the edit history so this guesswork may be way off. MarnetteD|Talk 15:48, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I see what you are saying. But in those cases (e.g., Melissa Leo, etc.), aren't we talking about mere seconds? Or is it longer? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
It can be as long a delay as they want it to be. So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is delayed by several minutes in case of something drastic happening, it will give them more time to cut to a commercial or simply edit something larger out. Other things that they might want to remove go from curse words being uttered to streakers running across the stage to even nuts with guns. Dismas|(talk) 16:32, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)It is longer now JAS. I assumed the delay was at least a minute. According to the last paragraph here Broadcast delay#Computerized delay it is 30 seconds. In ML's case the "something that can be quite jarring to a viewer or listener" certainly applied. It wasn't until I read the papers the next day that I learned the she had used the f bomb - yes that is an old fogey admission I am sure that those who use social media knew it within a few minutes :-) MarnetteD|Talk 16:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I didn't know that. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:07, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Did that entry turn out to be true? If so, maybe the vandal merely guessed right. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it was true. My guess is the competition was winding down to the last few contestants. And Miss Colombia (who, only by coincidence, was the eventual winner) had a fan that was fooling around and prematurely listed her in the article as the winner. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Stranger shit happens. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:05, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
If the contest was on January 25, then yes, it was vandalism. An anonymous editor made a series of 5 edits from 21:35 to 21:47 UTC (4:35 to 4:47 pm EST in the US) on January 24, updating various parts of the article as if Miss Colombia (a word that does not have a U in it, by the way) had already won. -- (talk) 22:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
It would be interesting to see where the IP address of that anonymous editor originates from. Colombia? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:12, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
It locates to Venezuela which is right next door. MarnetteD|Talk 23:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
And home to the defending champion. Those countries have a history of (allegedly) harbouring each other's enemies. Probably unlikely to go all the way to the top here, but also unlikely that was a native vandal. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:12, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
  • "Live" has come to trade in the same debased currency as "free". I was watching the supposedly live broadcast of the Allan Border Medal presentation last night. During a break I checked my phone for online news, and there was the winner's announcement, posted 14 minutes earlier. The winner is named at the very end of the TV broadcast, which was still about an hour away. So much for "live broadcasts". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The censor (and everybody else) working on the KDOC New Year Special are why we can't have live things. At least can't let the whole world see them. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:33, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
That montage was missing the grand finale. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:41, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Entertainment ke liye kuch bhi karega indian woman Guinness world record[edit]

What is the woman's name who was on the show carrying bricks with a thing that connects her ears to the bricks and also she broke the world record in Guinness? Also, which season and episode was it on? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:10, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

According to the Daily Express here, her name is Asha Rani (not to be confused with the Asha Rani on whom we have an article) and she performed the feat on or about January 29, 2014. I'll see if I can track down details of the broadcast. Tevildo (talk) 19:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
It was apparently Season 5, Episode 6, first broadcast on May 20, 2014, although I've yet to track down a website that isn't full of adverts and malware to link to. (Entertainment Ke Liye Kuch Bhi Karega for our article on the show, incidentally). Tevildo (talk) 19:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Who performs the SNL closing theme?[edit]

It sounds like two saxophones. The alto sax player, I have heard, is the show's music director. They show him with a bass guitar player, but there's no way a bass guitar can hold notes as long as the ones I am hearing. I say it's a baritone sax playing the low notes, but I can't find anything.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

A bass guitar can do a lot of things, depending on the effects pedal. But then again, Ron Blake plays a real baritone sax for the Saturday Night Live Band. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:55, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
So apparently they're not showing him. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If you're watching a pre-2007 episode, you won't see him. Lew Del Gatto played baritone (among other things) from 1975-79, then 1985-2005. German Wikipedia has an article, but we don't. Maybe we should. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:18, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
George Young could also use more recognition than a quarter note. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:26, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
Even though there have been older episodes in prime time, I'm primarily thinking of the past three seasons. I started watching after they started showing those prime time reruns, which were originally the previous week's episode condensed to an hour.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I just looked it up. Lenny Pickett, the musical director, is actually playing a tenor sax. But he's playing the high notes so it seems like an alto sax.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Celebrity (?) identification[edit]

I was wondering - who are the modern people depicted in this animation from the BBC History of Ideas series? The erastes is presumably Peter Ustinov - who are the eromenoi? And is a reference to any particular film in which Ustinov plays such a character intended? Tevildo (talk) 20:04, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm intrigued as to why you think it depicts modern people at all. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, they're not depicted as potential models for classical sculpture, they do have fairly distinctive rather than generic facial characteristics, and the chap with the sunglasses and the cigar would be out-of-place in ancient Athens. But I agree that it's possible they're not intended to represent any particular real people. Tevildo (talk) 21:46, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Having watched it twice they look generic to my eye. Having said that the one you mention looks more like Charles Laughton than Ustinov. There was at least one Bugs Bunny cartoon where they depicted Laughton in his role as Captain Bligh and that is who this one reminds me of. There was another one which featured all manner of stars from the 30's and early 40's at a formal party. I can't remember their titles - maybe Baseball Bugs can. I will be interested to see if any other editors can suggest who they might be. You might try contacting the Beeb to see it they can put you in touch with the makers of this animation. MarnetteD|Talk 21:36, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll take a look at the production company's website, thanks. Tevildo (talk) 21:46, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Doing some poking about in the dark depths of Twitter, the character is named as "Uncle Monty", which leads me to suspect it's Richard Griffiths and the film is Withnail and I, which I regret to say that I've not watched. Does this sound like a reasonable solution? If so, who are the other three? But I may be on the wrong track altogether. Tevildo (talk) 22:23, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
That's definitely it. Richard E. Grant (Withnail) and Paul McGann (...& I) are clearly in there too. And Ralph Brown (Danny). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Congrats on tracking it down to you both. T the film is a one of a kind. If you ever do see it I would stay away from the associated drinking game. Unless your constitution is strong and your liver is in great condition :-) MarnetteD|Talk 22:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The sequel Withnail and II was a great disappointment. —Tamfang (talk) 08:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
My intrigue has been assuaged. Thank you, Tevildo. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:11, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]

Copyright status of photos in old magazines that are out of copyright themselves[edit]

Here's something I've been wondering about for a while. hosts a huge load of old movie magazines these days, but are the photos in the magazines themselves out of copyright? If I wanted to use a photo from some old movie that was featured in an article (and for argument's sake, let's say it was a movie that isn't out of copyright yet), would the studio still hold the copyright to the promotional photos? I expect so, but I was wondering if anyone had a definite answer to this. What exactly is the copyright status of such photos? Snowgrouse (talk) 07:42, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

See Threshold of originality and sweat of the brow for more details, but generally, in Anglo-American copyright traditions, faithful reproductions of a work retain the copyright status of the original. So a still from a movie which was in the public domain would also be in the public domain, and a photograph of a movie screen showing a movie in the public domain would also be in the public domain. Simply put a photograph of a public domain work is itself in the public domain; the person who takes the photograph does not establish a new copyright. This only applies to faithful reproductions of the original. Artistic modifications, such as L.H.O.O.Q., where a work in the public domain was modified for artistic purposes, would have established a new copyright. Also, the use of a PD work within a larger work (such as a photograph of a street scene where someone was wearing a T-Shirt that had an image in the public domain) does not invalidate the copyright of the larger work. But so long as the reproduction adds nothing substantial new to the original, the original's copyright status (or lack thereof) would carry over. --Jayron32 15:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Note however you should distinguish between "photos from some old movie" (by which I presume as I thin Jayron32 does, that you're referring to photos taken of the actual film) akin to what's nowadays likely to be a digital version [[screenshot); and film stills. The later are copyright separately, or perhaps not copyrighted at all. As somewhat mentioned in our article, and has been found through discussion and research at the Wikimedia Commons, (e.g. Commons:Deletion requests/File:Taylor-Burton-Taming-67.JPG, Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2012/03#Diana Ross film still & Commons:Village pump/Copyright/Archive/2011/09#Publicity still copyrights) copyright on these is complicated. For older ones in particular often it's unlikely they're copyright as they may have been published under the authority of the copyright holder without copyright notices (when they were required) or were not renewed (at a time when that was necessary and so the copyright expired). But finding solid evidence of that often isn't easy. I presume we aren't talking about film poster which are another thing entirely but probably aren't found in magazines. Nil Einne (talk) 21:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Weird video game genre mixes[edit]

Some genre mixes are just eccentric, for example DoomRL aka Doom the Roguelike.

Even the core features conflict (FPS: fast-paced 3D action game, Roguelike: top-down view, turn-based, ASCII art), but still, DoomRL is quite enjoyable if you like FPS and roguelike titles.

Another example: Dating sims. If you take away most of the dating and fanservice, but keep the relations and the pacing, you'd get a game that would fit the 3-word description of Sims: The Roguelike. This has been done, but without sacrificing all graphics, and is known (for certain values of "known") as Kudos.

OTOH, Diablo the Roguelike doesn't sound, nor feel, half as weird – mostly because Diablo is a spiritual successor of the average fantasy-setting Roguelike with graphics and real-time gameplay.

Question: Is there a name for that kind of mix, which looks silly or even impossible at first? I didn't find anything better than "genre mixing", which doesn't hint at the weirdness of the mix. (A quick look at TV Tropes pages with "dissonance" didn't return anything useful either.)

A label like "FPS roguelike" would fit DoomRL, but that would only include one mix. - ¡Ouch! (hurt me / more pain) 15:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps a mashup or genre bending (movies [75], books [76], games[77]) or genre blurring (games [78], [79])? A genre bastard might be appropriate to convey the odd couple of parent genres. But really, I think you're better of using a whole phrase: "Dwarf fortress is hard to classify, because it has traits of Roguelikes, City-building sims, and sandbox games."
A few other comments: DoomRL is sort of a bad example, because it has very few traits of an FPS. First, I don't think there is any first person perspective (I could be wrong, I mostly play DCSS :) Secondly, FPS usually implies real-time action. I suppose there is shooting though. As far as I can tell, DoomRL only takes plot/concept/style from Doom, and is otherwise a fairly normal RL. Likewise, games like Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead and UnReal World are usually considered squarely Roguelike, even though they don't have any traditional fantasy elements in terms of plots, characters, or setting. DoomRL, CDDA, and URW are all usually just called Roguelikes, because the traditional high fantasy theme isn't seen as a necessary trait.
My point is, increasingly games (and movies, novels, etc) are described in terms of traits, rather than trying to shoe-horn them into genre labels. Have you ever looked at the subreddit /r/roguelikes ? About every third thread is people complaining that some game isn't a "true" RL, and the same tired points get made over and over again, and it's not very fun or informative IMO. There is another interesting point that (to my knowledge) nobody ever called Halo a "Doomlike" or "Wolfensteinlike", even though those two games largely defined their genres similar to how Rogue did. So maybe "Roguelike" is a crappy name, because the elements of similarity are highly subjective.
There's some traction for the term procedural death labyrinth [80] to describe many RL as well as games like Spelunky that have procedural/random level generation and permadeath, which are seen as many as the key elements of Rogue and RL that many other genres are borrowing. Anyway, it's a very interesting topic but genre classification is inherently problematic (see e.g. [81] [82]), and my opinion is that it's more useful to discuss these hybrid games in terms of traits rather than genres. Finally, the "weirdness" of the mix is itself highly subjective. Some people were surprised Spelunky worked so well. I was not, it seemed like a natural experiment to me, and I'd been waiting for a game like that for years :) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Wow, that's a lot of refs, thanks.
BTW, "Procedural death labyrinth" would be a good name for a rock band.
If we look at DoomRL's features, we find turn-based, tile-based, (<50%)random levels*, randomized items*, top-down view, and permadeath. Unidentified or even cursed items are missing.
*Items are randomized only in the random levels, and there is no name randomization. In a true RL, one would only learn the ammo the weapon uses and have to figure the rest from the way it works.
The major remaining Doom components are the maps, enemies, and items (modern/pomo weapons, armor, and misc. items). In a true RL, you wouldn't know anything about new weapons except the ammo they use, but yes, DoomRL is pretty close to "true" RL, not merely RL-like, and maybe 80% roguelike and 20% Doom. - ¡Ouch! (hurt me / more pain) 12:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
No problem, hope they're helpful! You know, I had completely forgotten about the "item identification sub-game" part of RL. I guess it's been too long since I've played nethack, which has the craziest BUC status system ever made (something about reading a cursed scroll of increase level whilst confused?) Rogue itself of course had a modest system like that, but I personally hated it. How am I supposed to know that you stand on a scroll of scare monster, not read it? Anyway, item identification meta-games are a very divisive issue, some players seem to think it is very fun and crucial, while others think it should be eliminated or at least minimized (it's still in DCSS, but fairly minimized, so that it doesn't matter much except for potions, but it still allows for hilarity and death in the right situations). Back to the terminology issue there's also some use of the term roguelite or rogelikelike, but those are usually applied to things like The_Binding_of_Isaac_(video_game), i.e. things that break one of the "sacred" aspects of RL, such as turn-based time. Actually, that's a pretty good example of genre blurring. I would describe it as an "isometric action RPG with procedural generation and permadeath", but I suppose we could also call it a "ZL/RL (zeldalike/roguelike)" SemanticMantis (talk) 14:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

Old cartoon question[edit]

This has been in my mind for several decades now. It's about an old cartoon episode I saw on British TV once. (We were lucky enough to get some British TV channels in Finland via satellite TV.)

Here's what I remember: There was a sick girl in a hospital. She was going to go to an operation. However, the nurse who was supposed to take her there wasn't the one she was familiar with. She was familiar with Miss Brown, but the nurse that was there was Miss Chambers. The girl asked the doctor something like "Where's Miss Brown?" The doctor replied something like: "Your Miss Brown is away/dead/something. Miss Chambers?"

As Miss Chambers was carrying the girl to the operation chamber, something happened (I don't remember what). The doctor turned out to be some kind of demon, who had hypnotised Miss Chambers. Miss Chambers came to her senses, saying "My God! What was I about to do?" and let the girl go. That's all I remember.

Does someone have any idea what cartoon this was? JIP | Talk 19:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Does Category:British animated television series help? --Jayron32 20:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Not really. There are far too many, and all I remember of the entire series is this one scene. It might not have been British to begin with, perhaps American, or a Japanese anime series dubbed in English. But I saw it on a British channel. JIP | Talk 20:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Grand Slam bridesmaid[edit]

I'm curious to know which person has played in the greatest number of Grand Slam (tennis) contests without ever winning one. Singles, doubles, male, female, wheelchair, whatever - they all count. For clarification: If a man played in the Men's Singles, Men's Doubles and Mixed Doubles contests at, say, the 2015 Australian Open, that would count as 3 contests for my purposes. They must never have won any contests to qualify for my prize. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Going by List of Grand Slam related tennis records#Grand Slam participation, Amy Frazier is a candidate. 71 singles appearances is the most of any player and she never reached the semifinals. Under the "STATS" tab at [83] I count 57 doubles appearences, also without reaching the semis. I don't know whether she played mixed doubles. If you include juniors then see the "Activity" tab at [84]. She reached the semis but didn't win. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I must not have been paying much attention, because I don't recall ever hearing Amy's name before. So, she played at least 128 GS contests. Can anyone top that?
Thanks, PrimeHunter. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:48, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
She played 8 GS mixed doubles according to [85]. If her 12 Junior GS contests are also included then she is up to 148. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:14, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I hereby pronounce Amy Frazier the Patron Saint of those who live by the motto "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, ....... try, try, try again". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

January 30[edit]

Diegetic Simpsons theme[edit]

In the episode Brother, Can You Spare Two Dimes?, a version of the Simpsons theme song is played – apparently in-universe – when Homer accepts his award for excellence. Is this the first diegetic use of the theme song? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 00:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I think so. Not the only one, though. I'm sure I remember someone whistling it recently, but can't remember the episode. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:09, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
It wasn't as recent as I thought. Marge tells Bart to stop whistling "that annoying tune" in "Bart Gets Famous". Still a bit later, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:12, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

REALLY heavy beat[edit]

Pink Floyd's song "Run Like Hell" from The Wall came up on random shuffle on the iPod this morning, and it got me to wondering: did any arena rock bands ever contrive to put an actual pile driver on stage for some major percussion? (For that song, at least, I think they would have needed two, alternating, to get the beat right, but hell, that would have been twice as awesome.) —Steve Summit (talk) 04:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I could only find YouTube - Percussion With A Pile Driver. Alansplodge (talk) 10:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
It's a shame the mixing is so poor. The pile driver must be really loud in person but you can hardly hear it in the video :( SemanticMantis (talk) 19:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The general theme was explored in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in descriptions of the band Disaster Area. I imagine some from the Industrial music scene will have experimented with novel percussive instruments. And there's also Karlheinz Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet. Finally, in this brain dump, employing a decent sized cannon on stage was, I thought, de rigueur for any self-respecting performance of the 1812 Overture. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Percussion_instrument#Unconventional led me to Sweet Emotion (that's arena rock right?) and Slipknot_(band) (which is definitely not arena rock). No pile drivers, but shotguns, baseball bats on beer kegs, that kind of thing. Of course Stomp_(theatrical_show) was hugely popular for a while with this sort of thing, their oil drum stilts were pretty loud. Then of course there's the 1812_Overture, which is often performed with real cannon. On a technical note, I'm not sure that common performance stages would withstand a conventional pile driver. Even if you put it on a concrete slab, you'd risk damage to the slab or driver, much like "firing" a bow without an arrow. I suppose you could drive an actual pile... but not on stage. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
  • For a live show, all you need is good amplification. For a good recording, all you need is a good music producer and engineer who know how to mix drums for a certain sound. One of the most famous drum sounds in terms of power was John Bonham of Led Zeppelin; however the actual drum sound on the recordings probably owes at least as much to Jimmy Page as a music producer. Jimmy_Page#Music_production_techniques briefly touches on his innovations in producing the drums. Get a decent pair of headphones and listen to "When The Levee Breaks" from Led Zeppelin IV. It's probably the zenith of the work he and engineer Andy Johns ever achieved with the drums. Similar effects can be done live with someone who similarly knows how to mic, mix, and amplify drums for the live stage. --Jayron32 04:21, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]

"Every heart speaks the language of love"[edit]

Here's a song I often hear at shopping centers. It goes something like this:

I should have known better . . . (forgot the rest of this line)

I should have known better by now, and I think I'm starting to

Until every heart speaks the language of love

I've tried googling every combination of lyrics, and I've come up completely fruitless! 2601:9:4901:A200:4225:C2FF:FE9A:4F8C (talk) 05:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

No wonder, since hearts are incapable of speaking, not having vocal chords or any access to the outside of the body, which they would need in order to spontaneously vocalise a language that doesn't exist. Might be a good idea to ask the staff at the shopping centre to tell you what CD they are playing at that moment. You should be able to find out the name from that. The staff at my local shopping centre would only be too happy to get away from serving customers to go into a back room for a few minutes to find the name of a song, so don't worry about disturbing them. They work there for a reason - because they don't want to. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:57, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Alternately, one might give a vaguely useful answer. This looks like Beth Orton's Stolen Car. --jpgordon::==( o ) 16:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
For anything playing over a store's PA, asking someone at the customer service desk is a good start. In the case of the heart speaking the language of love, presumably it's poetic license. Unless they regard the language of love as "lub-dub". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
jpgordon gave what appears to be the right answer. The OP is probably misremembering the lyrics, and has replaced "line" with "heart". Lyrics websites seem to agree on "When every line speaks the language of love". The other fragments that the OP cites are there too, but slightly differently worded. -- (talk) 20:34, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Who and when declare the national song of Bangladesh is amar sonar bangla?[edit]

Who and when declare the national song of Bangladesh is amar sonar bangla? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 12:37, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

It was used as the anthem in 1971 by the provisional government and officially approved after independence on January 13, 1972. It's designation was formally ratified in the Constitution of Bangladesh adopted on November 4, 1971.[86] Nanonic (talk) 13:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Hindi song in this clip beginning[edit]

[clip] In this clip, what was the name of the song used in the beginning of the girl's act?

Furturistic Doll House[edit]

Been trying to find the name of a movie, where this family is trapped in their house by a wall & suffering from increasing heat. It turns out their house, is actually a futuristic doll house (and themselves dolls), put inside of a stove by their owner's old brother. GoodDay (talk) 00:03, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Holy smokers, that's it. Thanks gentlemen. GoodDay (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
At the end, I was wondering if it would turn out that the futuristic mother and child discovered themselves to likewise be trapped, and to be someone else's dolls, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:43, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

This Is England '88[edit]

In the final episode of This Is England '88 Combo, who is in prison for manslaughter is shown having his Christmas dinner. However, he is shown to be alone in his cell. So would someone serving time for manslaughter in England eat alone in their cell? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


January 26[edit]

What gun is this?[edit]

It appears to be a heavily modified AK rifle of some type due to the banana magazine, but can anyone tell what model of Kalashnikov? (talk) 09:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Not too sure about the model but the picture seems to be from Payday_2. Obviously there is the possibility someone used Artistic_license to make it look more bad-ass and there is no such gun at all. Will hunt some more... (talk) 12:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
See if you can find it here. I did a brief scan but found nada. Note: there are custom mods in the game so I'm guessing it's not a real rifle. (talk) 12:55, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
The receiver seems based on an AK-74, but seems a little off along the bottom. The stock seems to be based on an M4 or HK416. The gas block and front sight I'm not recognising off the bat... but as points out this is basically a kitbashed gun meant to look cool and/or scary. WegianWarrior (talk) 13:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

what is the meaning of swarajit (in bengali)?[edit]

Moved to the language desk, click here. μηδείς (talk) 20:10, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Why do pants tear?[edit]

January 27[edit]

Where can I buy a postcard of the Greek town Kirra,_Phocis online?[edit]

Thank you Venustar84 (talk) 06:48, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, a google search turns up no local businesses with an online presence - but that's no real surprise. A little greek village like that isn't likely to be heavily online - and besides, who buys postcards online? The whole point is to send them to friends while you're staying there! I did a Google Maps search for "Gift Shop" in the town - and the nearest gift shop that Google knows about seems to be in Delphi, which is just a couple of miles away to the north-east. Delphi is a massive tourist trap - with a decent museum and related gift shop. It should be possible to get a postcard of Delphi from there.
But if you absolutely need it to be from Kirra, you may have difficulties. I did a Google street view virtual drive along the main streets of the town, and there was really only one shop that looked like it might sell stuff like that (it's on Epar.Od. Iteas-Distomou at the end of the Metamorfoseos pier). The Google Maps photo of it shows a stand full of that look like guide books and calendars - but you can't really see any postcards. However, my bet is that if they don't have it, it doesn't exist!
Since Delphi is the reason most tourists would be visiting Kirra, I strongly suspect that if they have postcards, then they'd be of Delphi...because that's what most people went there to see.
If a postcard of Delphi is "good enough" then I suggest you get in touch with the gift shop at the Delphi Archaeological Museum...I'm sure they can help.
There are plenty of online stores that'll sell you postcards of just about anywhere: ...for example. But these are not authentically postcards printed locally - they are just online services that collect photographs and print them on-demand. Since (I suppose) the entire point here is that the postcard should be from that town, that may not suffice for your needs. But you could find any number of photos of Kirra online and have one of those print-on-demand services print you a postcard from that I guess this boils down to "Why do you need a postcard from there?"...the answer to which would better inform our search.
SteveBaker (talk) 14:35, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The reason is because Callisto in Xena Warrior Princess is from there and I'm going to a Xena Conventrion in four weeks and I wanna show people a postcard of the real Kirra. Venustar84 (talk) 21:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Who is the most decorated editor \ admin on all of Wikipedia[edit]

I've noticed many editors have very ornate and elaborate user pages. Full of accolades, barn stars and medals. Some even speak of or are commended by others of great deeds and achievements. Others speak of illustrious careers in academia or even being members of Mensa.

So my question is, who is the most decorated and universally revered wiki user below Jimmy, of course. I vote for semanticmantis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Ha! You're joking, right? I like to help people find info here, but most of my edits to article space are minor, and I have very few awards (I do have an academic career, but I almost never mention it here unless it is directly relevant to a question ;)
As to your question, see Wikipedia:Teahouse/Badge/About#Hmm..._gamification.2C_isn.27t_that_wrong_for_Wikipedia.3F, which links to a few lists of editors who have many successful "good article" nominations [88] or many "did you know" entries [89], and a few other lists of Wikepedians who are ranked in different categories. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Is there any record of Barnstars awarded?    → Michael J    21:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Not that I could find. There might be a way to get a list of pages that use each template, or just scrape user pages directly, but that would be a decent amount of work. I suppose doing so would earn you a few barnstars :) SemanticMantis (talk) 17:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Our OP votes for SemanticMantis - who is undoubtedly a wonderful person and a valued contributor...but sadly not even close to the most decorated. I count 1 actual barnstar and two other awards, 120 pages edited, and with 4 years of service and 4,300 edits, is entitled to the "Yeoman Editor"/"Grognard Extraordinaire" award level. That's not even close!
It's certainly tough to find any kind of exact award count since many people don't bother to collect them anyplace - and edit count totals are easily inflated by people who run automated edit scripts ("bots").
Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits shows that to get into the top 5,000 most prolific, you're looking at needing at least 13,000 edits to your name. Clearly that level of commitment would be very hard for a relative newcomer to achieve. However, since the totals on that list include bot edits, we have no idea who the most active person from that list actually is. One data point I know is that I've never used a bot and I'm the 2,076th most prolific with 28,000 edits, so we know that you're going to need at least a few tens of thousands of 'real' edits to make "most prolific (excluding bots)". The most prolific editor (including bots) is User:Koavf who has performed over 1.4 million edits - but for sure that has to be overwhelmingly due to bots. A large fraction of what he does is things like recategorizing articles and refactoring links, removing double-redirects - which are easy to automate with scripts and such. One click of a mouse can get you 1000 edits if it entails renaming a category that contains 1000 articles.
In case you're interested, Jimbo Wales has only around 11.000 edits to his name - he's not even on the top 5,000 list...but his contributions are measured differently from mere mortal men.
Edit counts are easily inflated...and asking how many edits you've ever had deleted is perhaps as important as the number you've added! Does fixing a trivial typo in an obscure article count the same as adding an entire paragraph to a major article after having fought for months to get warring parties to agree on what it should say? Who can say what the 'value' of an edit is?
It's tough to figure out the most barnstars - and because many people don't bother to record them, you'd have to trawl back through talk page edit histories to find them. Again, I can tell you that the answer must be a more than my paltry total of 23...I'd bet it's in he hundreds...but that's a guess.
Then there are a bunch of other weird and wonderful accolades to consider. For example, Awesome Wikipedian Day is one where some guy is maintaining a list of (at most 366) Wikipedians whom he considers to be 'awesome'...there are still plenty of slots open - but Feb 16th is definitely taken!  :-)
Other accolades are counted by some people - including number of articles created, number of "Did You Know" entries created, number of Featured Articles and so forth.
Personally, I think that "number of featured articles" is a pretty good accolade - but even then, you don't generally create a featured article's a team effort. So attributing the honors is tough. But most of the other stuff is vague, hard to track, very, very variable. Some people give away barnstars for the most trivial things - others give just a slice of a barnstar after outstandingly hard work...and most never bother to thank anyone. There are other "awards" that are given ironically or even disparagingly.
In the end, I think we mostly know who the good guys are...and there isn't a way to nail down who is the best of them...which is probably a good thing!
SteveBaker (talk) 21:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@ As pointed out above, there is no single method for awarding someone else: you can thank users for edits, give them WikiLove, award barnstars, promote featured or good content, participate in the WikiCup or links to disambiguation page competitions, and a few of us even have a holiday named after us. @SteveBaker:: I have never used a bot but have used many semi-automated tools, gadgets, and scripts. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:41, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@Koavf: Really? Wow! You must have the worst case of repetitive strain injury in history! Well, hats off to you for your many (many) excellent contributions. This place needs more people like you....and the world needs more places like this. Being by far the biggest contributor to by far he largest repository of knowledge in human history ought to put you up there with Aristotle, Newton, and a select number of others like them...well, we could hope - right?  :-) Thank you! SteveBaker (talk) 05:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@SteveBaker: Something like that. Thanks, Steve. —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Weather emergency bungling[edit]

So, as anyone living in and around the City (in this case, New York as it should always be in the context of the US except for LA in Cali and Chicago in its immediate area) knows that the so-called blizzard fell flat and wasn't all that much worse than most every week of last winter. The difference was that last winter I don't think there were states of emergency declared whereas this year there was all manner of panic, people were quite rude with one another trying to get supplies, and the NY and CT governors banned travel. This morning everyone awoke and saw that this blizzard was a lemon (if such a term can be applied here). So now I'm wondering, what other instances do we have of panic over giant weather events where government officials shut everything down and wound up with egg on their collect faces? I do recall one instance in the last decade where the City shut down all the schools ahead of another "massive snowstorm" and there was barely a flurry. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 20:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

If "people were quite rude with one another", isn't that just business-as-usual for NYC ? :-) StuRat (talk) 01:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
People in NY are usually quite nice outside the cesspool of Midtown. The rudeness was actually experienced in Greenwich (where people have money, but not necessarily class). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 01:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not clear to me this was a "bungle" - see e.g. Precautionary_principle or the adage better safe than sorry. I for one am happy to not be hearing stories of people dying while stranded in a blizzard. Cost-benefit analysis also comes in to play, and my understanding is that the officials in question would rather risk the costs of shutting down "unnecessarily" than risk piles of bodies that would have likely turned up in the case of no warnings/closures and a harsh storm coming to fruition. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Essentially two days of business lost in the Northeast because of the reaction to a storm not all that much worse than those in prior years where they didn't shut down everything and nothing rally happened (except when things went further south to places like Atlanta where people had to sleep in their cars overnight in some cases). Usually as a result of these things New York, at least, is very wary of declaring emergencies again (that big snowstorm I mentioned made it so there were no more snow days in NY for many years after). Anyway, that doesn't quite answer my question. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 21:13, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Look, if I see a big heavy object flying at your head, and I yell "Duck", and you duck, and then later we re-analyze the video tape and find out that if you hadn't ducked, the object would have missed your skull anyways, you'd not get mad at me for telling you to duck. Based on the best available data, the precautions were reasonable and prudent. 2-3 feet of snow is a shitload of snow, and if it had fallen as predicted, no one would be bitching and moaning, in fact, the same people who are saying what you are saying now would have blamed the city for not doing enough to prepare. For the record, most of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, and Eastern Connecticut is getting what was predicted for New York, and they are quite thankful for the travel ban. It's working to keep cars off the road, allowing plows to do their work, and it is cutting down on accidents and other problems. So, the travel ban works. Complaining because you got lucky doesn't mean it wasn't prudent to take reasonable precautions. --Jayron32 21:21, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
No, I didn't really answer your question, sorry. I saw it as a bit of a loaded question, so I thought I'd address the issue that it's not really objectively clear that anything was messed up or bungled, that's more a matter of opinion. I'll also point out that even though the storm wasn't all that bad in NYC, it seems pretty rough in other areas - almost 3' of snow, coastal flooding, and hurricane-force winds in parts of Mass [90] [91] [92]. -- I'd want things shut down for that, and no place in Mass. is very far from NYC. I'll stop challenging your assumption now, hopefully others can answer your specific question :) SemanticMantis (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
No worries, and in your defence, it was rather loaded (I normally try to avoid those) There's no question that Boston being shut down is necessary. A family member sent me video of people snowboarding and skiing down Beacon Hill around buried cars. New York (and apparently Greenwich, CT) are very well-equipped for storms like this and far worse. So even if you have snow falling continuously, the accumulation on the roads is never all that much as it gets salted and plowed rather quickly and throughout the night (in fact, a town snow plow was running through a neighbour's driveway at 4 AM).
When we headed out this morning, all the roads had been thoroughly plowed, but every business was closed (likely because people thought they were getting a day off and decided to take it anwyay. What I said only applies to New York and her surroundings though. I do rememeber the famous DC Snowpocalypse of 2010 when DC, being wholly unprepared, had to be shut down completely. What a vacation! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 21:40, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
There's an old expression: "Better safe than sorry." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
You know the mayor said the exact same thing. Our Scottish clan has another old expression. This kind of thing can also lead to a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario in the future which would likely lead to disaster. No one going to answer my question? :( Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 00:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There was that time all those people thought the world was ending, so threw away their stuff. The apocalypse is weather, and those who preach it are as good as any government official, as far as the flock's concerned.
But yeah, this is is the fishiest thing I've ever seen from secular weathermen. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:46, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
Fantastic list, and I think you're referring to the 2011 instance, right? I think even remember reading about that story now. Though it's not a government reaction. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 01:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I was aiming to not single any one forecast out. The essence of them is undying. So long as there are old cryptic writings and troubling current events, there will be those who follow their leader in tossing earthly goods and waiting on a hill. Or murdering their families. Or just yelling "Wake up!" at strangers in public forums. That said, they all generally remind me of William Miller. Not a government official, but still an authority figure. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:37, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
This is true, but still I know there's other cases where city or regional governments have made big mistakes along these lines. Has to have been a few in London. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11 Shevat 5775 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
If nuclear winter counts as weather, there are a megashit-ton of unused, government-issued (or at least promoted) fallout shelters from the Cold War. That time and money could have gone somewhere useful. Of course, they still could come in handy. Can't call it a mistake till the bombs are gone. Seems like hysteria, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:32, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
Hurricanes are always a hit-or-miss proposition. By the time you know for sure where it will hit, it's too late for a full evacuation, so you just have to evacuate early on, if it might hit your city. StuRat (talk) 01:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Hurricanes you can't do much about except sandbag, board, and evacuate. With snowstorms you can bring out those sweet heavy duty rigs. The thing you don't want happening is that people become so accustomed to drills and false alarms that they do nothing when a real emergency strikes. The tsunami that hit Hawai'i in 1946 is a good example as people had gotten used to the warnings being nothing and also thought it was an April Fool's joke as this was on 1 April. Over 160 people died as a result.
A less serious example is the lack of snow days in NYC because the government was so embarrassed by not having a storm show up that even on days of extreme snow storms, there were no cancellations, this may have predated even the great President's Day Blizzard of 2003 (during which I recall being at school and there being over a foot and a half of snow) and several other such days. On the people side of things, just think of kids and adults ignoring fire drills which are prompted by the same alarm as a real fire (instead of just training people in evacuation techniques without the alarm, but also making sure they've heard it before).Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775
When I lived in/near Los Angeles, I never heard it called "the City". San Francisco is, tho. —Tamfang (talk) 08:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I was being generous to LA people in case they got angry. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 21:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Usually "the City" means the city closest to you. When I say I am going to the city, I mean Scranton.    → Michael J    20:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Actually, there was a study done—which I sadly can't find— that showed a good portion of the country considering "The City" to refer specifically to New York. I could also point you to a satirical article by The Onion which rips apart Boston. All that said, please do not interfere with our self-importance, unwarranted or otherwise.... Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11 Shevat 5775 21:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I noticed a huge roadkill fox. And a squirrel. They were missing eyeballs.[edit]

The rest of the corpse was virtually untouched.

And I was wondering, why do crows, corvids, in fact all manner of scavenging birds pick out and eat the eyeballs first. Thats who I saw dunnit. Sure, they are easy to access but surely the nutritional content must be virtually nill. Wouldn't it pay off better for the scavengers to go for the choice cuts first, and not the offal.

In fact, I think a lot of animals do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Not every animal is fortunate enough to have sharp teeth or strong jaws for choice cuts. A crow would look especially stupid with them, to boot. They take what soft bits they can get. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:57, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
Yep. Also keep in mind that crows are facultative scavengers, not obligate scavengers. If there were turkey buzzards around, they would have broken the skin and feasted on flesh. Then the detritovore eventually eat what was left by the rest. SemanticMantis (talk)
Furthermore, a good knock on the head can pop the eyes out of their sockets, making the shiny white contrast even more apparent. Sort of like how you can pass people on the street without a second glance, except for the guy who's "eyeballing" you. Crows know what's normal and what's not in a face. If the tongue's hanging out of a slack jaw, that's even more reason to peck. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:27, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
Also, bear in mind, the eyes are full of liquid, so in addition to a soft and tasty snack, they get a bit of light refreshment. By the way, in Japan, it is common courtesy for the host of a meal to offer the eyes of a fish to the guest. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:13, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There's been a fairly common superstition throughout history that eating a body part gives you its attributes. Hearts give you courage, brains make you smart, eyes help you see further. I'd like to think modern bird brains are beyond that, but media pressure may be driving some toward the unattainable ideal. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:52, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
And don't forget, that birdbrain for stupidity was coined before ornithologists and cognitive scientists became aware of what the nidopallium is capable of! ---Sluzzelin talk 21:56, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Crows and ravens are well known for attacking the eyes of live lambs and incapacitated sheep - Farmer forced to kill newborn lambs after horror attacks by crows was the first of many references that I found. Alansplodge (talk) 23:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
That seems more to do with the winds of winter than a regular feast for crows. If they were dying from heatstroke, would we blame the flies? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:20, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
Seeing is believing - Ravens Attack Newborn Lamb. Alansplodge (talk) 02:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I believe I saw one of four ravens peck a lamb's ass a couple of times. It might have been two. Hardly terrifying, especially by creature of darkness standards. That saintly white momma sheep was about as aggresive, but nobody went blind. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:06, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
Why did a lamb have a donkey? KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 06:23, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Backup. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:21, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
In the "got your back" sense, not like this. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:25, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
This dog seemed to know how to.... :)

Would someone know where I could buy a online statue of the nymph Callisto_(mythology)?[edit]

Which brings me to the reason of how this question is related to my question up top about Kirra Greece, :The reason is because Callisto in Xena Warrior Princess is from there and I'm going to a Xena Conventrion in four weeks and I wanna show people a postcard of the real Kirra and a statue of the real Callisto. Venustar84 (talk) 21:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Come, on Venustar84, you know how to google. Search for "kallisto/callisto statue reproduction/sale" and see what you find. (A hint, there's plenty.) This is not the sort of research you need us for. (Good luck, in any case.) μηδείς (talk) 01:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Also, neither representation is really of the real Callisto. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:55, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

January 28[edit]


Is it only children that get nosebleeds 'apparently' for no reason? I haven't had a spontaneous nosebleed since I was a child, and I've never seen an adult have one [EDIT: except for my father]. Is there a reason for this? KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:05, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I can't recall ever having one except after getting socked in the nose. Awhile back I took my 85-yr-old mom to the ER with a bad one, resulting from high BP and low humidity. Beyond that, I have nothing to contribute except this: Nosebleed. ―Mandruss  10:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. That link almost answers my question. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) According to this source they are "Common in kids ages 3 to 10 years" and this one says the ages are 2 to 10 which suggests that the occurrences drop off after 10 years of age. But then the second source says that they're also common in adults from 50 to 80. The second source goes on to say that they're more common amongst those on blood thinners or those with high blood pressure which many people in that 50 to 80 range deal with. Dismas|(talk) 10:23, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
That's actually what I was thinking. Thanks! My father is on blood thinners and has high BP, causing him to be anaemic, essentially, and occasionally he breaks out in subcutaneous heamorrhages, as well as the occasional nosebleed. Thanks! KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 10:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

OR, perhaps, but I get two or three "spontaneous" nosebleeds a year and am neither a child, nor 50+ nor on any blood thinning medication and my BP is usually noticeably low. Lol. My take is that the human body is wonderfully complex and inconsistent and we'll only ever get generalisations about this kind of thing at best. Now, I'm off to find some lunch. --Dweller (talk) 10:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

You should stop banging your face against trees, mate :) KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I think young children get nosebleeds for several reasons. They have thinner blood vessels, are more likely to "rough house" and they pick their noses often. StuRat (talk) 19:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Cocaine users often get nosebleeds, and are rarely children. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:59, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
But on the other hand some people say that nose picking causes nosebleeds and did you ever see a young kid that didn't pick their nose. Richard Avery (talk) 08:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Classic British joke. Q. What's the difference between bogeys and Brussells sprouts? A. Kids won't eat Brussells sprouts. Like all great jokes, it's the truth behind it that makes it funny. And I think I just found my all-time favourite Wikipedia article title. --Dweller (talk) 09:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
You may think that's the funniest article title, but it snot. StuRat (talk) 13:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I haven't read that article, so I don't know if what I am going to say is in it, but I did once read that eating snot was a natural way for children to boost their immune system, as they are taking in the unwanted germs and bacteria in small quantities, and the immune system can learn how to deal with them. This is off-topic a little, but still interesting. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 19:06, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Why doesn't Ukraine default on its Russian debt?[edit]

Article on the issue of Russian debt default: [93]

Ukraine wants to avoid a default because it would have consequences. But why is that the case? If Ukraine defaulted on Russian debt citing the invasion by Russia and continued to pay other creditors, would the international debt market view Ukraine as more risky? If the default was viewed as just retaliation against the Russian invasion, why would it raise interest rates or have some other adverse consequence for Ukraine?

Muzzleflash (talk) 19:13, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Russia might use that as an excuse to invade all of Ukraine and "take what is theirs". StuRat (talk) 19:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, if Ukraine does have to lose any more territory, the leaders apparently just want to shave off some of the more Russian areas, not lose the whole country (though those same areas have a good deal of Ukraine's industry). That's what I got from discussions with Kievan friends anyway. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 8 Shevat 5775 21:26, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Ukraine may default on its debt anyway[94], precipitating a bailout. And as the EU has underwritten about $2B of that debt, that's going to add come from the European government debt market. Business Insider tends to being rather excitable (one might say linkbaitey), and in this case they're saying what Russia could do, not what anyone thinks they're likely to do (despite what they may say). With a pro-western government in place, that bailout would surely come from the IMF and the EU (per the Bloomberg article). And Russian's #1 geopolitical concern about Ukraine is whether the country is aligned to them or to the EU (e.g. Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement#Russia). Economically, it's in the interest of neither country to escalate a trade war between them. Ukraine is heavily dependent on Russian gas [95], but Russia is dependent on Ukraine both as a major customer of that gas, and for transit to western European countries (as most of its pipeline network, and 80% of its capacity, runs through Ukraine [96]). Russia–Ukraine gas disputes notes the recent unhappy history between the two countries; a great chunk of that debt is for gas[97]. In the longer term, unease about Russia's using gas supply for political leverage is driving expansion of alternate supplies to Western and Central Europe, especially the Trans-Anatolian gas pipeline - which erodes Russia's strength in the European market (diminishing both its economic and political bargaining power). Russia's in serious economic trouble, and really would like that debt paid down; Ukraine is too (worse), and is heavily dependent on a country it's almost at war with. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 23:05, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


In UK politics, What is 'Cleggmania' and does it still exist? --Coístingad (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Very first hit on Google: Cleggmania spreads across Britain . And no, it most definitely doesn't exist any more, the opposite in fact. (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, see Popularity of Miliband and Clegg falls to lowest levels recorded... from July 2014. See also our Nick Clegg article. Alansplodge (talk) 23:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I have added a brief note to our article, so it should appear on any future searches. Alansplodge (talk) 01:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
In case you're wondering why, it's a combination of the formation of a coalition government with the Tories and the fact that student tuition was hiked as a result of the coalition government. (Ask any UK student especially international ones like I was...) Students made up a large portion of the LibDem's voter base, you see. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 9 Shevat 5775 03:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Added to the fact that the LibDems had promised in their manifesto NOT to raise tuition fees (of course, the LibDems didn't actually win the election, so those promises aren't binding). Also, the LibDems have by necessity been associated with other aspects of the Conservatives' austerity programme, which is never popular. Alansplodge (talk) 10:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
It wasn't a manifesto promise conditional on winning the election. Nick Clegg signed the Vote for Students pledge, the text of which is “I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.". He then voted for the government's plans to increase fees. I think it's worth noting that, as a member of the cabinet, Nick Clegg has to vote with the government or resign; he can't be in the government and oppose it, because of Cabinet collective responsibility. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I stand corrected. Alansplodge (talk) 17:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Why does....[edit]

Semen smell like fish. There's definitely a fishy odor about it. Seems odd that there should be any smell at all as the prostate gland and gonads are a sterile area? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Mine doesn't, but Google suggests it's common. Answers range from fishy diets to pH changes to not washing properly to trichomoniasis. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:06, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
I don't know about you two, but I have never actually taken the liberty of smelling my own (or anyone else's) semen (I'm not really into that kind of thing), so I wouldn't know. Girls have never remarked on the smell, either. As for taste, apparently, what you eat can affect it, so this may be relevant. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 08:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I've tried my own. If that makes me gayer than giving myself a handjob, so be it. And if trying it a few times to know if it gets better and worse (it does) makes me a scientist, I guess I'm a scientist. Like Stephen Baldwin. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:50, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
Not to be confused with Stephen Baldwin. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:52, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
A scientist would keep detailed records. Have you? ―Mandruss  08:54, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not Hans Christian Andersen or anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:56, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
Speaking of science, here are some psychological nutrition facts. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:55, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

January 29[edit]

Mystery Object[edit]

What is the thing on the left? [98] --Viennese Waltz 08:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Spork and a melon baller, I'd say. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:19, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
I like the melon baller but I'm not sure about the spork. Those aren't fork tines at the top end, they don't stick out. They're like grooves or ridges, it's a corrugated effect. --Viennese Waltz 08:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
"Melon spoon" gets similar Google Images. Not sure why you'd need a baller and a spoon, but then, I'd use a fork. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:11, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
I believe that it produces fluted curls of melon, rather than balls (sorry, I couldn't find a picture). There's a similar widget for butter - see File:Butter curls.jpg. Alansplodge (talk) 10:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
There's also the butter spreader. If anyone ever needed one. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:32, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

What's the point of a nine thousand year lease?[edit]

I'm currently sorting out my late mother's estate, and have been looking through the deeds of her house. The parcel of land the house was built on was leased to the man who built it in 1932, for a period of nine thousand five hundred years, with an annual ground rent of £10. Every time the house has been sold, the lease has been assigned to the new owner. The ground rent has not increased in that time (£10 a year would have been a significant sum of money in 1932, but is a peppercorn now), and I've found no record of my mum ever paying it, or even who it would be paid to after all this time. But why on earth would anyone find it necessary to set a lease length of nine and a half thousand years? --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm no lawyer, but I think I've heard that sometimes some kind of restrictive covenant prevents freehold sales of land. --Dweller (talk) 12:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
If you don't pay the nickel each month (or whatever the lease says), the landlord (or his grandkid) can repossess the land, which, conveniently enough, now has a house (or large brewery) on it. And now we're talking future dollars. At least that's how I understand things work in Baltimore, per ground rent. Here's the UK legislation on that sort of thing. Lots of rules about needing notice, seems unlikely you'll be swooped down upon. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:26, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
The land was effectively sold sans "freehold rights". In some places, the right to vote was restricted to freeholders. All I can think of quickly <g>. Collect (talk) 12:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Don't think that was relevant in 1932. A landowner collecting £10 a year ground rent in 1932 was assuring himself of some income. If the lease is long enough he can collect it indefinitely, and so can his children (unless they've failed to account for inflation). But does anybody really need to guarantee that income for nine thousand years? Surely a few hundred would be more than enough. --Nicknack009 (talk) 13:39, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Enough for the current generation. No harm in doing something nice for the descendants you'll never meet. They're still family.
And there are still many breakthroughs to be made regarding immortality. Wouldn't you feel a bit stupid if you thawed out (or whatever) just to find you'd lost prime land (or all your land) through shortsightedness? Better to err on the side of caution, if someone's willing to sign. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:25, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
It's sort of like how social media data agreements give firms dibs on anything you upload "irrevocably" and "perpetually". They probably won't need it forever, but maybe. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:29, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not certain, but I think the following is probably relevant. Centuries ago, the legal mechanisms associated with real property became some cumbersome that the practice grew up of inventing a fictitious owner and a lease from that owner, so that the title (which was in practice to the freehold) could be treated in law as a lease: see ejectment. I believe it was the Common Law Procedure Act 1852 that changed this[1], but leases were not necessarily converted to freehold until much later: I own a property that was leased in 1707 for 500 years, and changed hands several times after 1852 before being converted by a Deed of Enlargement into an estate of fee simple in 1919. My guess would be that the 9500 years was the remainder of a previous lease that dated to before 1852. --ColinFine (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The Thousand-Year Lease tries to explain the puzzle, but I'm not sure that I really understand the answer. It seems to hinge on the landlord and his/her descendants being able to keep some control of how the land is used. R.I.P. Ultra-Long Leases mentions the town of Paisley in Scotland, which "can boast (if that term be apt) 11 leases granted for a million years".
The article lists the disadvantages (presumably for the tenant, which may be advantages for the landlord!) of ultra-long leases as follows: (i) they tend to beget subleases which can become needlessly complex; (ii) they may be vulnerable to the landlord terminating them without the tenant’s consent for a breach of the terms of the lease – such as non-payment of rent; (iii) they may allow for an inappropriate degree of control by the landlord in relation to things like permitted uses of the property; and (iv) they may allow a landlord to extract a payment from the tenant in exchange for the landlord’s not insisting on particular conditions in the lease. Just as important perhaps as those practical reasons is the fact that ownership of land in Scotland was, until 2000, largely “feudal”: in other words land tenure was, essentially, hierarchical. That was swept away by the Abolition of Feudal Tenure (Scotland) Act 2000 ". In other words, people just want to keep the land in the family for prestige purpose, even if they have no direct control over it.
The article goes on to say that "Since 2000 it has no longer been possible to grant any type of lease for more than 175 years" (in Scotland that is). Alansplodge (talk) 17:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Depending on where it is, a rule against perpetuities may eventually kick in, typically after 120 years or so. (talk) 02:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Could someone explain the math behind this musical concept ?[edit]

Someone once told me: "The circle of fifths - C increased by a fifth is G; G increased by a fifth is D; D increased by a fifth is A; A increased by a fifth is E; E increased by a fifth is B; B increased by a fifth is F#; F# inceased by a fifth is C#; C# increased by a fifth is G#; G# increased by a fifth is D#; D# increased by a fifth is A#; A# increased by a fifth is F; F increased by a fifth is C - produces the 12 notes of the octave."

How is this expressed with math, how is this exactly found?
PS: I already know the formula to 12 tone equal temperament. 440*2^(2/12). The fact that octave (on our 12tet) is 2x.
Posting this here on miscellaneous because its a mix or math and music subject. (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

A Perfect fifth is a frequency ratio of 3:2 This means that the frequency is increased by 50% going from C to G, and another 50% going from G to D and so on. The complete circle has twelve such increases. Now 1.5 to the power of 12 is 129.7463 so a complete circle of perfect fifths would represent an increase in frequency of almost 12,975%. An octave represents a doubling of the frequency, so seven octaves (from almost the lowest note to nearly the highest on a piano) represents an increase of 2 to the power of 7 which is 128 (i.e. 12,800%). A perfect circle of fifths would give slightly more than seven octaves (1.36% too much) so piano tuners slightly flatten the fifths to give perfect octaves. There is a much better explanation at Circle of fifths. Dbfirs 14:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Start with Musical_tuning#Systems_for_the_twelve-note_chromatic_scale which explains some of the math involved. Technically speaking, the circle of fifths only works under systems of Musical temperament which adjust perfect just intonation so that the notes of the octave cycle back properly. You can read any of those articles, or follow links, to see how the math works. --Jayron32 14:14, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I am reading those articles and still not finding or not understanding the math. Lets imagine we hade 3 tone equal temperament and instead of perfect fifith we have 1.618. What would be the note symbol order? (talk) 16:27, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, your last question doesn't make any sense to me. The twelfth power of 1.5 is very close to the seventh power of 2, and if you divide each member of the finite series 1.5, 2.25, 3.375 ... by a suitable power of 2 to bring it within the range [1,2] (in musical terms, move them to the fundamental octave) they are all reasonably close to the powers of 2 ^ (1/12), though some are closer than others. What is it you don't understand? --ColinFine (talk) 17:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Its not miscalculation, the number 1.5 is used to make the 12 tone equal temperament (at least to select the note order number, what will have flat or not, how many letters without flats or sharps we will have...). I was just asking how the thing would work if we had 3 tones instead of 12 and 1.618 instead of 1.5. I made that expecting people to answer what the note order would be in this case, by showing how they calculated it to this alternate tuning I would be able to discover how it is done.
(edit conflict)In the normal equal tempered scale, an octave is divided into twelve intervals, so each semitone represents a frequency ratio of the twelfth root of two (that's 1.0594630943593 or about a 6% increase in frequency). When you ask about a 3-tone equal temperament, do you mean just three notes in an octave? If so, then the ratio would be the cube root of two (about a 26% increase for each interval). Alternatively, do you mean tuning in Major thirds? That's four semitones, so the sequence would be C to E to G♯ to B♯. There is the same problem here of a mismatch because a perfect third is a ratio of 5:4 (a 25% increase) whereas the equal tempered third is almost 26%. Dbfirs 17:52, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I am asking/mean the tuning: 3 tones equal temperament, that uses still use octave (2x), but instead of using 1.5 to do the maths, it use 1.618 (talk) 18:01, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I think the OP is wondering what the note symbols would be if we used slightly different systems? The answer is: the same systems. The 12 notes are still the same 12 notes (A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G#), the distinction is the exact relationship between the 12 notes. Under any two intonation/temperament systems, the notes other than the root will be a tiny bit different from each other from one system to the other. --Jayron32 17:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Where are you getting 1.618 (the Golden Ratio)? We have an article on Musical tuning. For tuning in fifths, you might like to read Pythagorean tuning. Dbfirs 18:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I said 1.618 (with 3 tone equal temperament and octave), just as a different way to ask the question, since I was not able to find the math concept, on the said articles (or didnt understood them), I was expecting, that if people answered hwhat the symbols of 3 tones equal temperament with octave and 1.618 instead of 1.5 are, I would be able to find the math by myself (or people would post it while solving the problem). — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
... but why choose 1.618 ? It wouldn't sound tuneful, and you couldn't get an octave, so the tuning wouldn't work. Only simple ratios such as 2:1 , 3:2 , 5:4 etc are considered to be pleasant intervals in Western music, so early instruments were tuned this way. Perhaps if you study all the articles that people have linked above, you might grasp the maths of tuning, but come back and ask again if there are some bits that you don't understand. Dbfirs 19:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry, IP user, but I don't think anybody understands what you're asking. The trouble for me is that I haven't the slightest idea what you mean by "3 tones equal temperament" or what "symbols" you are talking about. I get that you're asking about a "dominant" ratio of 1.618 instead of 1.5, but I don't know why. I observe that the cube of 1.618 is somewhere near 4 (but not very close), so is that what you mean by a "3 tones equal temperament"? --ColinFine (talk) 21:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
If there were a musical culture whose most important intervals are 1:2 and 5:8 (rather than 1:2 and 2:3), their tempered scale could indeed have three notes to the octave; log(8/5) is a bit more than two-thirds of log(2). If the notes were named (in order of pitch) P Q R, then the "circle of minor sixths" would go P R Q. —Tamfang (talk) 00:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I wonder if the OP meant the ratio 1.681825665441... which would give an equal-tempered version of that scale. Dbfirs 12:30, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

While the OP does mention that they understands the ratios, it seems to me that the original question is not actually about the frequency ratios, but about the fact that we get back to C after completing 12 steps. What matters in this case are only two facts:

  1. You have 12 steps, which you call C, C#, D, .... B.
  2. The next step, after B, gives you a C again. (You may say that this would be an octave above the original C, but since we want to use this for comparing keys, not notes, the octave doesn't matter. A key of C is a key of C, regardless the octave.) Mathematically, this circular behavior is expressed with the modulo operation. Just use 0 for C, 1 for C#, and so on.

Now we can combine the two facts, and get what's called modulo 12. Conveniently, most of us have a device in our homes that does that operation every day - twice: A clock. A jump of a musical fifth corresponds to a clockwise move of the hour hand of 7 hours, or, which is the same thing, a counterclockwise move of 5 hours. You can easily try for yourself that if you repeat these jumps often enough, you will end up where you started. In this case, you have to do 12 such jumps. — Sebastian 05:46, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that's what the OP seems to be asking, but it is impossible to do this with a ratio of 1.618. The OP has never explained whether this is just a miscalculation, or some attempt to link music with the Golden ratio. Dbfirs 08:26, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
The ratios between individual notes don't matter for the question why we get back to C; they only distract from the underlying mathematics. You can use any tuning system for the twelve-note chromatic scale and even some idiosyncratic system based on the golden ratio, and the above two facts still apply. — Sebastian 20:36, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That's not true. Try your clock analogy with a jump of \pi minutes. I agree that you can approximate the octave, but 1.618 doesn't get close within the range of human hearing. Dbfirs 11:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Howard Goodall's "Big Bangs" series has an excellent 45 minute episode on Equal Temperament. Unfortunately the best link I can find is a very low--audio-quality version at youtube. If you can find this somewhere, it's well worth watching. μηδείς (talk) 22:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Or you can read corresponding chapter in the spin-off book . AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:49, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

35 Battery Royal Artillery[edit]

Hello I am a former member of 35 Bty when it was with 25 Regiment. As you will be aware it is the 250th anniversary of the Bty this year. I am told it was formed from the 1stMadras Artillery and a re-organization was ordered in the February of 1765 Unfortunately I cannot find a date that the Bty was formed. Not being very good with computers and researching I was wondering if you could be of any assistance as myself and former 35 Bty members of 25 Regt would like to have a get together and celebrate the 250th Birthday.

Many Thanks

Tony Pearson ( 35 Bty 1971-1978) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:03, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I had a good go at it, but couldn't get closer than the year. Perhaps you might try the National Army Museum; it seems to be fairly easy, see their Research Enquiries page and click on "online contact form". You could also try the Royal Artillery Museum; see their page Our Research Policy which has an email address for the librarian at the bottom of the page that you can click. Good luck. Alansplodge (talk) 22:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

January 30[edit]

Locations listed in background of WWI VAD recruitment poster[edit]

Our Voluntary Aid Detachment article includes a WWI recruitment poster File:VAD_poster.jpg. (It's non-free, so I won't embed it here.) In the background of the poster there is a list of locations, presumably where service is needed. On the right I can make out Egypt, Mesopotamia, Holland, Switzerland, and Russia, and on the left France, Italy, Malta, Gibraltar, and then one that starts "Salon...". What is that last location? -- ToE 13:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Salonica spring to mind. {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 14:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah! And I see we have the article Salonican Front, a redirect to and alternate name for Macedonian Front. Thanks! -- ToE 14:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

(Restored section)[edit]

uncontrollably grinding my teeth[edit]

Super Collapse 2[edit]

Is there world record for highest scores in Super Collapse 2? If there are, can you tell me the world record for TRADITIONAL, RELAPSE, and STRATEGY? Deaths in 2013 (talk) 19:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I think what you want is HERE...but I don't see it broken out by those three modes. SteveBaker (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

January 31[edit]

How do you set up an office at a new location?[edit]

A business sometimes needs to set up an office at a new location where it didn't have a presence before. It'll probably be someone in upper management who is given the task. I've never been involved in a project like that (and I'm not involved in one), but I imagine that quite a varied bit of expertise and local knowledge is involved. Among the tasks I can think of:

  • finding a suitable office space at a good location
  • finding providers for various supplies and services (telecom, cleaning, coffee, office supplies, ...; maybe banking, legal, & accounting as well)
  • coming up with floor plan(s) for the office space, and hire contractors to build/modify the space according to the plans
  • furnishing/equipping the office
  • complying with applicable laws (permits, inspections, registrations, certifications, various filings)
  • staffing the office by recruiting from the local labor market

On top of doing all these, the project probably needs to be done reasonably quickly.

If the company is large, I can imagine hiring all kinds of consultants to help with the project. But if the company is not very big, how can the executive tasked with the project know how to do all those things? Do business schools teach how to handle practical matters like the above? Is there a kind of consultants that specialize in this kind of projects? Am I imagining it to be more complicated than it really is? How is it usually done? - (talk) 14:29, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Facilities management is the appropriate discipline, and there are consultants which specialize in it. That being said, the tasks you list shouldn't really be beyond the competence of anyone in a management position, and a smaller move probably wouldn't justify getting in a specialist contractor to supervise it. Tevildo (talk) 16:36, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
One shortcut is to rent an office that's more of a turn-key operation. That is, it's already provided with furniture, cubicles, utilities, security, etc. Then, instead of hiring all new staff, you can move some over from other offices. Some of those moves may be permanent, while others are only until the new office is up and running. This gets past the problem of trying to start an office with all new staff. In some cases, there may be enough laid-off employees from previous cut-backs to fully supply the new office from that pool. Presumably those employees would need less training. StuRat (talk) 16:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed - see serviced office. A serviced office is quick and simple to organise, plus it avoids the risk of taking on a long term lease and capital expenditure for a new location that may not be successful. Of course, the tenants pay a premium for this convenience. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:59, 1 February 2015 (UTC)