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:You really are suppose to avoid adding references to leads, and other than that, it's looking like a borderline edit-war there! [[User:Govvy|Govvy]] ([[User talk:Govvy|talk]]) 10:20, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
:You really are suppose to avoid adding references to leads, and other than that, it's looking like a borderline edit-war there! [[User:Govvy|Govvy]] ([[User talk:Govvy|talk]]) 10:20, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
::Minus the refs and with a little bit of clean-up I would agree with Bkhd12's version. Wider consensus is definitely needed. [[User:REDMAN 2019|<span style="color:#daa520">REDMAN 2019</span>]] ([[User talk:REDMAN 2019|<span style="color:#c0c0c0">talk</span>]]) 12:42, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
::Minus the refs and with a little bit of clean-up I would agree with Bkhd12's version. Wider consensus is definitely needed. [[User:REDMAN 2019|<span style="color:#daa520">REDMAN 2019</span>]] ([[User talk:REDMAN 2019|<span style="color:#c0c0c0">talk</span>]]) 12:42, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

== Template colors ==

Hello! I see that the colors of many national football team templates are changed. Why can't you have the established like they was previously. Like on the templates of Paraguay, South Africa, Morocco, Belgium and so forth.
Yours sincerely, Sondre --[[Special:Contributions/88.89.103.4|88.89.103.4]] ([[User talk:88.89.103.4|talk]]) 15:15, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:15, 10 August 2021

    Please add {{WikiProject banner shell}} to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
    WikiProject iconFootball Project‑class
    WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
    ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

    Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject used

    RfC medals in infobox

    Following up on this discussion, which medals should be included in the infobox of (association) footballers and national teams?

    1. Olympics only
    2. Olympics and other major multi-sports events (e.g. Mediterranean Games)
    3. All international tournaments

    Nehme1499 16:03, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Non-diffusing categories

    A user (@Mitch Ames:) has used AWB to remove valid categories such as Category:Greek football managers and Category:Australian soccer coaches from articles (now reverted). However, they were not tagged as non-diffusing, hence the confusion - should we run a bot or similar to tag all parent categories in Category:Association football managers by nationality (and Category:Association football players by nationality to avoid further confusion? GiantSnowman 06:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I'd say yes, if they should all have that, and my understanding is they should. Crowsus (talk) 12:03, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:CATSPECIFIC is clear that articles ought not be in a category and its parent. I don't see the need for non-diffusing categories here, but if you think it appropriate, please add {{Non-diffusing subcategory}} and {{All included}} to the categories, to avoid the same "confusion" happening in future. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:18, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    In absence of {{Non-diffusing subcategory}} and {{All included}}, WP:CATSPECIFIC applies and the articles should be removed from the parent category. According to WP:LOCALCONSENSUS: participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Mitch - no, the consensus is clear. Try and remove Category:English footballers from Category:England international footballers and see how many reverts/warnings you get from different users...the categories are non-diffusing, they just need to be tagged appropriately. GiantSnowman 10:37, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    they just need to be tagged appropriately — Then please do that. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:04, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Good evening, it's two stadium different stages: Stadion Wiener Neustadt (Demolished in 23 April 2020 [1], [2], [3]) ≠ Wiener Neustadt Arena (Opened in 28 September 2019 [4], [5]). Thank you. Arturo63 (talk) 22:34, 31 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Yes, I don't see why one of these links in the section header is a redirect to the other linked article. Once one stadium opens before the other gets demolished, both stadiums temporarily exists at the same time so they should most definitely be different articles, if the "Wiener Neustadt Arena" article passes notability with notable sports history of it's tenants. Pinging @Robby.is.on: who I believe knows the language from these websites provided. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 09:58, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm happy to help. What can I do for you? :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 10:01, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    What these articles the original poster provided are saying, though now I realised I can translate them into English on the browser I'm using. I'm also wondering if I am right in saying what I said before. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 10:13, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Can we remove the redirect page [6]? Arturo63 (talk) 12:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Mass creation of "Fooian expatriate footballers in bar" categories

    See Special:Contributions/23shlomomaman23. Is this a desired categorization? Geschichte (talk) 07:32, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Was just coming here to post this - I think not, and I am sure there is consensus at CFD previously not to have categories like this. GiantSnowman 10:33, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Just notified the user at his talkpage that these are unwanted. --BlameRuiner (talk) 10:57, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    We then need to purge the rest of the Category:Expatriate footballers by nationality and country of residence. Geschichte (talk) 09:59, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Ben White career statistics table

    I recently made this edit to Ben White's career statistics table, putting the U23 stats below the senior stats as he made his senior debut before his EFL Trophy debut, and adding rows for seasons where White did not play for Brighton's first team as per WP:FOOTY/Players (my recollection was there was no concensus in that discussion on Ike Ugbo, but lost track as that discussion was so long and Ugbo's seems to be including those rows with 0s, so I added them at White's article like that). The former part was reverted by Daemonickangaroo2018, with that rationale that 'under-23 should go first' and the latter by Mattythewhite. So, should (a) clubs in these tables be arranged chronologially, such that U23 goes below first-team when the player played for the first-team first, and (b) rows be included for the parent club even when they fail to play, as is shown in WP:FOOTY/Players. Many thanks, Microwave Anarchist (talk) 14:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I think display the U23 stats above the senior club, and yes, 'empty' rows should be displayed when a player is out on loan as per MOS. GiantSnowman 15:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    looks like Ugbo is missing his U23 stats from the EFL Trophy on his page. also I was under the impression we would list the U23 stats under the senior team in a similar vein as loaned out stats.Muur (talk) 16:46, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't see why we're removing the "U21" part from the team that played in the EFL Trophy, when that's what the Soccerbase source describes the team as being in the 2018/19 season. And I can't see where the player MoS encourages us to include redundant rows where a player was out on loan the entire season? Mattythewhite (talk) 21:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    'empty' rows should be displayed when a player is out on loan as per MOS is per GiantSnowman's (and some other editors) reading of the MoS, while others don't read it that way as it is ambiguious regarding what to display for players out of loan. There was a big discussion about this in the past few months and no consensus was reached. --SuperJew (talk) 22:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    +1. Spike 'em (talk) 08:18, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The MOS clearly has a 2010–11 parent row for Template United, even though the player was out on loan that season at Wiki City... GiantSnowman 08:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This has been discussed at this discussion. Not the place to re-open it. My comment was only to state that the fact that you claim something doesn't make it true or consensus. --SuperJew (talk) 09:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It is an indisputable fact that in the MOS there is a row for the 2010–11 season in the parent club entry and a row for the 2010–11 season in the loan club. GiantSnowman 10:45, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That is true. But that in itself doesn't support the claim. Perhaps this theoratical player moved on loan to Wiki City mid-season and was eligible for Template United in the first half of the season? As I said, it's ambiguous without exact dates and without supporting prose and/or infobox. --SuperJew (talk) 11:39, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Vannes

    Could someone update the logo for Vannes OC? Thanks. Paul Vaurie (talk) 16:39, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Swansea City F.C. too. Paul Vaurie (talk) 16:40, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Have uploaded and added the Vannes logo. The new Swansea crest will only be used on the shirts. The main one stays the same. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 18:14, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, thanks. Paul Vaurie (talk) 16:07, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Pizzi

    Pizzi (Portuguese footballer) was moved to Pizzi (footballer) without any discussion, and there are other footballers called Pizzi. Is this okay? SLBedit (talk) 16:44, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I have reverted the move by @Nehme1499:. Worth a WP:RM. GiantSnowman 17:03, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Fausto Pizzi and Juan Antonio Pizzi aren't known solely as "Pizzi", unlike Luís Miguel Afonso Fernandes. Nehme1499 13:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Tino Livramento

    Is he notable enough now to warrant an article? He just moved for £5 million to the Southampton first-team and is a member of the England U-20 team. Or should we wait until he makes his senior club debut? Thanks. Rupert1904 (talk) 17:11, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Does he meet WP:GNG? Signing for a big club / playing youth international football are not enough. GiantSnowman 17:16, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This is why I am asking. I think there is a case for him to have an article now. To WP:GNG, there has been significant coverage of his move from reliable sources with it being covered in Sky Sports, The Guardian, the BBC, The Athletic, Eurosport, Daily Mail, etc and was given a squad number with the first-team at Southampton. He made 3 appearances in the 2020–21 EFL Trophy and was also on the bench for multiple Premier League games for Chelsea last season. Rupert1904 (talk) 17:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Transfer reports are not considered significant coverage. Anything about him? Daily Mail also not a RS. GiantSnowman 17:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    What do you mean by articles about him? And why are transfer reports not considered significant coverage? Is that a guideline? Seems like a strange policy and that you're suggesting these articles contain no information about the player? While I have actually found that a lot of the time, transfer related articles or new contract articles have the best information related to who players are, their backgrounds, their careers up to that point, etc. It's not like BBC is publishing a profile on a different footballer every day. Here are a few articles on Tino's background and his recent transfer and a couple other similar articles on players to expand on my point.

    Rupert1904 (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I also see that you created Louie Barry's article in 2019 on the basis of him signing for Barcelona - even though he wasn't part of the first team there, never made an appearance for their senior side, and it was a further 18+ months before made a senior appearance after moving to Aston Villa. The notability standards for starting an article for a player seem murky at best. There's a lot of articles about Tino, he made three appearances in the 2020–21 EFL Trophy, made the bench for Chelsea in the Premier League last season, and has now been the subject of a sizable (for his age) transfer to another Premier League club where he has been included in the first-team. I'm going ahead and making an article for him. Rupert1904 (talk) 23:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Citations wanted - potential entries for List of footballers killed during World War II

    Reposted and updated version of original now archived.

    As main contributor to this article, I would like to flag up for attention of others on the project a number of candidates for the list that are already wiki-articled and known or believed to have been killed in or died as a result of circumstances brought on by the war (eg execution, in enemy captivity, effects of wounds etc) but which so far lack a reliable citation regarding their death which is preconditional to inclusion in the list. A few have no death circumstances described in the text of their article but I note have been put on category lists that suggest someone knew/believed they died in wartime circumstances. I also include those whose death circumstances are disputed - see their talk pages for further detail - and are in need of a conclusive ruling in or out.

    There may be additions coming onto the list so I encourage watch this space! Others are welcome to add. Please let us know if sources are found and added into their articles.Cloptonson (talk) 06:27, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Please help with an imminent edit war on Danny Ings between myself and User:RossButsy. He is of the opinion that only the Aston Villa article about his transfer should be included as a citation, whereas I think that at least one other source independent of the club (preferably the BBC) should be cited. In my experience, club articles are fairly temporary and are taken down after a year or so, whereas BBC articles remain available online permanently. He also objects to any reference to a transfer fee with the rather bizarre logic: "the club source doesn’t mention a fee because there is no fee when it says undisclosed it stays as undisclosed". Any help with coming to common ground would be appreciated. Daemonickangaroo2018 (talk) 13:19, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    @Daemonickangaroo2018: Not every transfer has an immediate transfer fee circulating case in point this. Sky Sports news and their associated journalists didn’t mention any kind of transfer fee. Also how this transfer was very quickly announced is different to others where normally there would be days, weeks etc of speculation in those a fee would be reported where as this was announced and caught the public with a surprise. I’m fine with you removing the club article but I disagree with your opinion that they delete them after a year. I’ve made edits with club website posts still up to this day from two+ years ago. RossButsy (talk) 13:31, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    On the latter point, see the first citation in the AVFC section of the Ollie Watkins article, which is now a dead link after less than a year. Daemonickangaroo2018 (talk) 13:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    An independent source is always preferable, and there's nothing wrong with saying "the fee was reported as X" as long as sources agree and you haven't got the BBC saying it was £13m and Sky Sports saying it was £24m or something like that. – PeeJay 13:32, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Well some sources are doing exactly that. Guardian saying £26 million bbc saying £24 million. RossButsy (talk) 13:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not true. Both the BBC and the Guardian are both saying the fee was £25m. And even if that weren't the case, when two similar fees are reported, they can both be mentioned in the article. – PeeJay 15:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Change it then. No Objections from me. Case closed. RossButsy (talk) 15:11, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @RossButsy: Please learn to properly indent your comments so we know who you're replying to. – PeeJay 18:16, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Daemonickangaroo2018: Regarding the saying club articles are fairly temporary and are taken down after a year or so, that can be the case in a lot of stuff - many times sites reorganize their format and then links change around and they don't always bother redirecting (have had this on the A-League site, the clubs' sites, the FIFA site, FourFourTwo/FTBL, and many more). The solution is to create an archived version using a web crawler (like this one) if there isn't one already created automatically, and link it in the ref at the "archiveurl" parameter. --SuperJew (talk) 16:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Why not put both? "The transfer fee was not disclosed by the clubs. Figures ranging from X to Y were reported by the media." Oldelpaso (talk) 13:26, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The current version looks good to me, i.e. "undisclosed fee reported to be...". That's what I had on my own mind when I first saw this discussion. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 11:28, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Notability of canceled friendly matches

    Are canceled friendly matches worthy of inclusion in club season articles? SLBedit (talk) 21:21, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I would be fine to briefly include them in prose about the pre-season, but I don't think it is necessary to include them in results tables as they didn't actually happen. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 21:47, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    In examining the official FIFA source for the women's Olympic tournament, I discovered that Ellen White (footballer) and Steph Houghton have legally taken their husbands' names, while continuing their work under their maiden names. [7] On White, this was reverted with the explanation that it's "wrong" because she is still called Ellen White as a player. [8] I reverted this back because the logic is faulty and FIFA should be a reliable source, or thousands of pages on men and women need revising. There doesn't seem to have been any problem on Alex Morgan (a Good Article) in using FIFA to prove that she now has a married surname but still plays as Morgan. Please can somebody keep an eye on these pages before it turns into a lame edit war. 2A00:23C5:E187:5F00:7D66:53DB:E519:5646 (talk) 15:28, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I see no problems with including the married names, but having the article at the (COMMONNAME) maiden name. GiantSnowman 15:34, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Can also always add the "Birth Name" parameter underneath in the infobox as well, like the Alex Morgan page has. RedPatch (talk) 19:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Good idea. GiantSnowman 19:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    In an article such as Ellen White (footballer), I would definitely start the article with Ellen Toni White (married Convery; born... etc. The same thing goes for artists that were known under a name when they were young, and then married to another name many, many years later. In addition, when people get even older, may be married two times or more, changing their married name every time. Geschichte (talk) 10:03, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Cristian Romero transfer confusion

    Although the transfer of Cristian Romero from Atalanta to Tottenham was officially announced earlier today, the reports of the transaction from both clubs contradict each other. Atalanta claims that the transfer was a loan with option to buy, contradictory to every previous report (and every third party source, even those published after the announcement), while Tottenham makes no mention of a loan but also does not claim a definite sale or contract length. This article was recently published highlighting the issue, and I will also confidently say that there's no translation issue, as the website says exactly the same thing in Italian. How should this be dealt with? ComplexRational (talk) 21:41, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    There is a lot of miss information, it's a loan with the option to buy at the end of the season. Govvy (talk) 21:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks. Some of the reporting is clearer now. ComplexRational (talk) 00:58, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    The BBC are now reporting this as a permanent signing for a fee of “about £47m”[9]. Daemonickangaroo2018 (talk) 06:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    You know what, I feel like emailing Spurs now! Govvy (talk) 09:25, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Lists of penalty shoot-outs

    Hi all, sorry if this has already been discussed. Where does the community stand on these lists? I saw List of Football at the Summer Olympics penalty shoot-outs and thought it was a cool topic but not sure where it stands on notability in terms of specific sources covering the intersection of 'penalty shoot-outs' at 'x tournament'. I found the following:

    The only odd one out is the last one, which does include a list of sources. Of course, match reports could be added for the rest as well by going through match reports and newspaper archives but the merit of topic is still somewhat questionable. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    I don't understand how those are helpful articles. That seems likes trivial WP:OR if you ask me. Govvy (talk) 09:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Govvy would you say that WP:NOTSTATS applies here? Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:30, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Probably, I've often put articles to AfD and have that backfire on me and kept. You've only seen my viewpoint, I'd wait to see if others feel the same as me know. Govvy (talk) 09:34, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't think these are needed. GiantSnowman 09:37, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I would say the same. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 14:50, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I would also support deletion. Please feel free to ping me if yo nominate any of these for AfD. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Please note that pinging someone specifically (other than the article creator or major contributors) when nominating for AfD is WP:Canvassing. --SuperJew (talk) 18:12, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It is not canvassing to inform Editors who have asked to be kept informed Spike 'em (talk) 18:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's also fine to ping everyone who's participated in a previous discussion (i.e. this one) if/when related AfD starts. This definitely happens often where we've had discussions here, and then AfD is started. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:48, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Association football goalkeepers who have scored

    I was looking through the Alisson article and noticed the category "Association football goalkeepers who have scored" has disappeared so I thought I may need to add this in as other goalkeepers who scored indeed had that category, before discovering the category has been deleted. Oh well, I didn't notice there was a discussion on that back in June. Seems reasonable as to why it was deleted. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 11:37, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    It is a list now, List of goalscoring goalkeepers. Geschichte (talk) 10:05, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Suspected plagarism on Chelsea's current season page

    Hey, on Chelsea's current season page, there seems to be direct plagarism in the review section (copied word for word from the sources). I haven't actually come across such an issue in all my time on Wikipedia, so wanted to ask for advice here first before acting. --SuperJew (talk) 20:07, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    See Wikipedia:Copyright violations#Parts of article violate copyright and Wikipedia:Copyright violations#Addressing contributors - in short remove the offending stuff, tag the article for revdel, and warn the editor who added it. GiantSnowman 20:39, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I have tagged for revision deletion (for future reference, it's Template:Copyvio-revdel), and warned the user. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:55, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you! I didn't have time to deal with it as I had an exam this morning (3 more left...) --SuperJew (talk) 10:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Honours

    I think for the big European (and South American) teams there is no need to list fourth or semi-final (no medal)!!! In fact, just stating the champion, runner-up and 3rd place is enough for the big teams in the world. 2001:EE0:41C1:96F3:E43D:6AE9:4206:F1EA (talk) 08:22, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Agreed - in fact, it should be winner of league only, and winner/runner-up of Cup only. GiantSnowman 09:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, I see the pages about all the major teams (except Germany) still having the fourth and semi-final titles in "Honours", and so let's fix them all.

    2001:EE0:41C1:96F3:E43D:6AE9:4206:F1EA (talk) 10:27, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    2000 England v Germany football match

    Is 2000 England v Germany football match really notable enough for an individual article? Just because England manager Kevin Keegan resigned after the match, that doesn't mean we need an article about the match. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:29, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Agreed, content can be covered elsewhere, does not need its own page. GiantSnowman 10:53, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah IMO it's useful background context to the 1–5 match, but the unusual factors of being the last match at the stadium and resignation of the manager are not related, so it's making it out to be a more significant event than it was. Crowsus (talk) 11:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a tricky one. On one level, a match of this nature could be fairly easily demonstrated to pass WP:GNG. All the media outlets produced detailed reports of the game, and the circumstances surrounding it as well. It also receives enduring coverage to this day, for example [10]. But obviously we don't have articles for every international that's ever played. I'd say on balance probably keep it. But I can see the arguments against as well.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:20, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    It's an interesting general question though, especially in the internet era. Like Aguero vs QPR in 2012, that game has had almost endless discussion and coverage since but I'm not sure we'd normally expect an article about it. Mind you, why not, if it meets policy? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:38, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The article feels generic, I mean, is the topic really the Final Wembley Stadium (1923) game ? But nether-the-less the Last matches at Wembley Stadium (1923) is enough in my opinion. Govvy (talk) 10:09, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Old squad numbers

    Does anyone know of a reliable source for Football League players' squad numbers in previous seasons? Specifically I am looking at the 1999-2000 season, the first season in which the Football League used them. Soccerbase doesn't list them, Soccerway doesn't even have squad data that far back, and beyond that I'm not really sure where else to look...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    This any good? GiantSnowman 13:15, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Is that a reliable source? Any idea who runs it? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:44, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you looking for something specific? The Birmingham Mail published my lot's numbers at the start of that season, and archive copies exist. Daresay other papers did the same for their local clubs, although it wouldn't help with players who joined during the season. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Trying to expand 1999–2000 Gillingham F.C. season and I cannot find a reliable source for the squad numbers online. Unfortunately I only attended a couple of games that season for various reasons and didn't keep the programmes from the ones I did go to, although even if I had they almost certainly wouldn't have covered every single player...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:32, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    you could probably find some old programs on ebay or something and failing that, you could DM and/or email the actual team and see if they can help you.Muur (talk) 16:47, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The backs of these two programmes give you quite a few. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:51, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks @Struway2:, between those two programmes I have actually covered all bar two players. I'll see if I can make contact with anyone online who might have copies of programmes which could confirm the other two...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:10, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @ChrisTheDude: never thought yesterday, ENFA gives squad numbers against the players in its match details pages. If it's only a few you're missing, let me know and I'll look them up for you later. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:56, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Struway2: - fab - thanks! It's just Manny Omoyinmi and Anthony Williams I am missing. Let me know if you need details of specific matches in which they played -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:03, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Football programmes are published works and full under journal category as a cite. So that should be sorted really. Govvy (talk) 10:17, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Omoyinmi 38, Williams 39. Both played in the match cited: <ref>{{cite web |url=https://enfa.co.uk/ |title=Matches: 18 September 1999: Gillingham 0–2 Preston North End |website=English National Football Archive |access-date=10 August 2021 |url-access=subscription}}</ref> cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Fabulous - thanks! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:31, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    @ChrisTheDude:, aa, good ol Junior Lewis was in the Gills squad then, I've played a little footy with him on the Barnet training pitch many years ago. Govvy (talk) 12:44, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Wenger

    Hi all, there is a situation developing on Arsène Wenger's page and would definitely welcome some input; @Bkhd12: has expanded the lead but I reverted the lead for these reasons:

    -- It doesn't need WP:TOOMANYREFS in the lead. The lead should act as a summary of the main body of the text, and certain references aren't necessary. Said user hasn't used 'specific' references, but used generic ones (like Amy Lawrence's book, without a page number). I wouldn't class 'sportingnews.com' and 'GiveMeSport' as high-quality sources either.
    -- Why is Wenger being Arsenal's most successful and longest-serving manager omitted from the first para? That is more valuable than him managing 1,000 PL matches or winning 7 FA Cups (Guardiola has won 4 League Cups, you don't see that being in the first para of the lead). Wenger changed the culture of a football club, that is his legacy. Not necessarily his longevity.
    -- 'often considered the greatest manager', is unnecessary. I would rather the lead brought out the fact he was an influential manager, to avoid 'greatest ever' talk.
    -- Hale End, no mention of it in the main body of the text. Why is it included in the lead? To say he is responsible for the 'early success' of Arsenal's Hale End youth academy is disingenuous and vague.

    I reverted the lead in keeping with WP:GAC, but Bkhd12 has refused to corporate or reach out here for opinions. So rather than getting into an edit war, I'd welcome some constructive feedback, cheers. Lemonade51 (talk) 08:19, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    You really are suppose to avoid adding references to leads, and other than that, it's looking like a borderline edit-war there! Govvy (talk) 10:20, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Minus the refs and with a little bit of clean-up I would agree with Bkhd12's version. Wider consensus is definitely needed. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 12:42, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Template colors

    Hello! I see that the colors of many national football team templates are changed. Why can't you have the established like they was previously. Like on the templates of Paraguay, South Africa, Morocco, Belgium and so forth. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 15:15, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]