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December 8

Royal Navy court-martials

I seem to recall that a Royal Navy captain was automatically subject to a court-martial upon the loss of their ship no matter what. Is/was this correct, or was it just something I read in a novel? Clarityfiend (talk) 10:54, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"It is true that up to 1914 it was not the invariable rule but a very general direction to have courts-martial, mostly in peace-time, with regard to the loss of ships, but during the first two years of the Great War it became necessary not to follow that practice, and even in the last two years of the Great War courts-martial were not excessive in number having regard to the heavy losses of ships".

A. V. Alexander, the First Lord of the Admiralty, to the House of Commons on 31 July 1940, [1] about the loss of HMS Glorious whose captain would certainly have deserved a court martial had he not been killed when the ship sank. Alexander goes on to say that an Admiralty Board of Inquiry was held, but did not recommend any courts martial, perhaps because the context would have to have been made public. We don't seem to have an article on these inquiries, only the US equivalent Naval Board of Inquiry. Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:52, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But see also HMS Nottingham: Courts Martial Verdict. The destroyer HMS Nottingham (D91) had run aground off Australia in 2002. Alansplodge (talk) 10:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that courts martial are inquiries, or trials; the accused is not automatically found guilty. DOR (HK) (talk) 18:36, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They are trials per se and the accused people are entitled legal representation. Alansplodge (talk) 20:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just finished Master and Commander for the nth time; the end of that book is exactly such a court-martial. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 06:06, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, the use of swords in courts-martial was discontinued in 2004. Alansplodge (talk) 09:19, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

General Secretary in Soviet constitution

From what I see, the office of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union is not even mentioned in the 1977 Soviet Constitution which highlights the Supreme Soviet of the USSR instead. List of heads of state of the Soviet Union says that "In practice, the Chairman of the Presidium (of the Supreme Soviet) held little influence over policy ever since the delegation of the office's power to the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) during Joseph Stalin's rule". If so, why the office of General Secretary wasn't included into Stalin's and Brezhnev's 1977 Constitution? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 19:14, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Because the General Secretary is a party position, not a state position. In the UK, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is invariably also the leader of the majority party in Parliament (or the largest party in a majority coalition). Boris Johnson is the Leader of the Conservative Party (UK), but that's not what makes him the UK's head-of-government. His constitutional role is that of Prime Minister. Similarly, insofar as they were generally the same person from Stalin forward, the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was usually also the leader of the Soviet Union, but those are two distinct roles. The USSRs written constitution would not mention that office, instead defining the various leadership positions; the General Secretary ran the show de facto, but de jure, other job titles were used to denote state leaders. --Jayron 32 19:22, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stalin became Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars (or "Premier") on May 6 1941, in part because the position of Communist Party General Secretary didn't carry any weight in formal international diplomacy. (Partly similar to how the Nazis changed the swastika flag to be the sole official national flag of Germany in response to the 1935 Bremen incident in New York Harbor.) AnonMoos (talk) 20:01, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The General Secretary generally held some other official position, but it varied. Stalin and Kruschev used the Premier of the Soviet Union as their government office. Brezhnev and following leaders used Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet as their government office. --Jayron 32 20:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see, but in Soviet context, the distinction between party and state doesn't make much sense - as we know, it was a single-party state and the 1977 Constitution states that "The leading and guiding force of the Soviet society and the nucleus of its political system, of all state organisations and public organisations, is the Communist Party of the Soviet Union". This logically makes CPSU's head, the General Secretary, a state office. Perhaps Soviet bureaucracy entangled itself badly. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The constitution wasn't a constitution, it was a fig leaf, a means to fool useful idiots. "Look, we've got a constitution that guarantees rights and in which all power belongs to the people" to cover the reality. DuncanHill (talk) 22:35, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

212.180.235.46 -- The Communist party had a special role in the Soviet system, but it was not identical to the government. There were separate government hierarchies and party hierarchies. As far as I can tell, Stalin didn't have an official government position after 1923 and before 1941. By the way, when the General Secretary position was first established, many thought it was kind of a boring administrative role... AnonMoos (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

Time gap in chess grandmasters' list

Chess_prodigy#List_of_youngest_grandmasters shows that from Bobby Fischer in 1958 there has been a 33-year gap until Polgar surpassed him as the youngest grandmaster, and that before that in the 1950s young grandmasters appeared regularly. Then the 1990s saw a second wave of young GMs. Why there has been such a gap between 1958 and 1991, especially considering chess popularity in the second half of the 20th century? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 11:29, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There were very few grandmasters when Bobby joined, some blame rating inflation. The title was only a few years old back then. Fischer was very, very strong even without reaching his full potential due to becoming paranoid over time and refusing to play by 1975. Polgár's dad trained his 3 daughters almost since birth, to be the most prodigy-ic and strong chess players he could. Eventually computers would encourage even younger grandmasters but I don't know exactly when that started. Magnus didn't actually get into chess until the middle of elementary school, if he had been training since like 23 months old I bet he would've gotten the youngest grandmaster record and and caused another long pause in the record. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:03, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pl. suggest me a word

I was recently confronted with one opinion piece (It is different than my own point of view as a feminist) at one discussion page.:

It's a much large paragraph so shortened as much possible: "...Verifiability is not sufficient for inclusion. The question is what objective criterion in term of sources and beyond verifiability should we use to establish relevance. Logical relevance would be way too inclusive. One out of six women is victim of rape in the United States is certainly logically relevant to the subject of the United States and verifiable in official statistics.... The problem is that, based on logical relevance, the entire subject of rape should be covered in details in the United States article. Where do we stop, assuming that we should start at all?... It is a very simple question that we ask here. .." ( Since discussion at other forum is not closed Ref not given to avoid charges of 'forum shopping')

As a proponent of women's right actually I am for audit of each of country articles vis a vis women's rights and have due representation of women's issues in each of the articles. But after reading above I was almost at loss of words. Nearest word I could think of was 'condescending' but that too is not apt enough for my feminist expression. Can some one suggest me alternative words to express myself better.

Thanks

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 13:22, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's Category:Pejorative terms for people, but how will this help you achieve consensus? Card Zero (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

:)) I am not necessarily looking for Pejorative term but a better expression to express myself. :)

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:26, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think your best angle is to try to get a link to Violence against women in the United States included in the "Law enforcement and crime" section, near the murder rate statistic. (Your one-out-of-six statistic is in that article.) Reasoning: a lot of people are women - about half, I've heard - and thus it is of higher relevance than the 20 or so topics in Category:American society which are similarly neglected, although some of those could also find a place in the article at a later date.

In terms of expressing yourself, "I'm willing to compromise" is often a way to get everything you wanted done.

You could say that the (presumed) guy is "blustering" and that everything he's said is "bombast" (which literally means cotton wadding), but since he seems to believe himself to be raising reasonable and important objections to change (and everyone is vigilant about change, since homeostasis is intuitively good), this kind of attack is unlikely to work as persuasion. Card Zero (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on the context, her wording could be anything from irrelevant through to the expression of concerns about undue weight, perhaps stopping off at "mansplaining" along the way. I think we'd need more details to provide realistic suggestions. 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:5FAA:6884:1ED5:DFFF (talk) 11:18, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any advice on finding what articles this critic is 'known for'?

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this, but it seemed the closest on WP. In part on my work improving the articles of classical music critics I recently created Jeremy Eichler. Having been an active journalist for 15 years+ I suspect he has written hundreds of articles by now. I want to include some (just as representative) in the "Selected publications" section, but I'm not sure how to decide which ones to include! Since he is a music critic writing in newspapers, I'm not sure—any ideas on if there is a way to see which articles he wrote were "viewed more"/"cited more" or something? I'd rather not be too random in with the inclusion. Aza24 (talk) 22:55, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would link to the selected writings page of his personal webpage. You don't need to list them all, but that seems like a relevant link for the external links section of the article. --Jayron 32 23:59, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly the right idea, perfect, thank you! Aza24 (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

Christmas Lights/Trees in Scotland

what streets, cities, churches have the best Christmas Lights/Tree displays in Scotland?.and also, does the British Royal Family ever visit some of these? Gfigs (talk) 15:45, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To answer your question, we would first need you to define “best”. Me… I prefer “tasteful understatement”, but I do understand that others take a “It’s not enough until you can see it from space” attitude when it comes to decorations. Blueboar (talk) 16:20, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Try Googling "best Christmas lights in Scotland". I'm not sure that anybody here will do any better. Alansplodge (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

best, might mean most popular, or most visited..exactly what you would expect to find on Wikipedia..1958, Scotland's forgotten Christmas lights.. Gfigs (talk) 20:15, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

suppose it might be little difficult to see them..i think it's snowing?. Gfigs (talk) 20:47, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As a confirmed humbug, the best Christmas lights are the ones that are turned off. MinorProphet (talk) 22:15, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying you're a fraud? :( ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:59, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the ones switched on by Jean-Claude Van Damme: [2]. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:26, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

actually, they were saying : "you should log off the Wikis, due to the porn"..it's reason why Larry Sanger (reporting) left Wikipedia.. Gfigs (talk) 04:55, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

wonder what he is doing this Christmas?.. Gfigs (talk) 06:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh always has a spectacular display. See a round-up of various city displays in Scotland here [3].

The Duchess of Cornwall at least once switched on a city’s Christmas light display, but that wasn’t in Scotland [4].

Just searching the BBC website, the trend seems to be to report on light displays when they are raising funds for charity, which I completely agree deserves the label “best.” [5].

Am also very fond of Newburgh’s lights, which are designed by children :) [6], [7]. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

hopefully this Christmas, Santa will reduce the prices of data.. Gfigs (talk) 03:51, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 12

JFK tapes on YouTube transcribed?

Anybody know where I can find all the transcribed JFK White House tapes (particularly Cuban Missile Crisis)? Searching on YouTube there's short clips that are transcribed but few transcribed complete tapes. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 05:10, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here, for one. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 06:01, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Hoping for a more extensive collection but appreciate these. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot date someone without an indonesian section dating page article

OP blocked as sock

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

On the article page dating in wikipedia there is only india but not indonesia. Then i cannot believe that theres a rule in india for dating someone. But in i donesia the current fate of dating is uncertain. India is like indonesia India came first before indonesia in term of alphabetical listing Then how in the world that indonesia is the aanarchy haven for dating. Aw man. India is only 3 syllable word but indonesia is even more syllable with 5 syllables at least. Then how can i date someone in indonesia by providing indonesia section in dating page on wikipedia. Please someone can contribute article dating. 182.0.178.122 (talk) 07:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Best of luck with your love life. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Am I the only one who's rather confused about what exactly the OP is asking? Eliyohub (talk) 09:51, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think a better question would be, does anyone understand it? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems pretty clear to me. The OP is asking why there is no section about Indonesia in Dating#Asia. Having said that, I'm 99% sure the OP is a banned user. --Viennese Waltz 11:15, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The question has a familiar ring to it, but I'm not sure from how far back. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If it is true that Indonesia is the "anarchy haven for dating", then there are no societal rules or norms, so just follow your heart. In general, it is rather sorry if someone has to rely on Wikipedia in order to be able to date someone. --Lambiam 11:53, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rowland Hill Berkeley

I am trying to trace the lineage and birth date of Rowland Hill Berkeley (pictured), who was Lord Mayor of Birmingham, England, in 1904-1905 (he apparently died in office). He was either descended from (grandson?), or was a close relation (nephew? great nephew?) of postal reformer Sir Rowland Hill (1795-1879). Any other info, such as an obituary, would also be useful - my searches have not been fruitful.

Also, RHB's grandson was Bill Mason (director) (1915-2002) - who was the intermediate person?

@MilborneOne: this seems to be your bailiwick; can you help, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Pigsonthewing: I've found some articles on British Newspaper Archive, emailing now. DuncanHill (talk) 12:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DuncanHill: Received, thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of information at Bill Mason (director) confirming descent from Rowland Hill. Nicholas Berkeley Mason is a drummer with Pink Floyd. His father is Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason (b. 9.11.15) known as Bill Mason (d. 17.1.02). There are various correspondence addresses for Nicholas. Sarah Mason worked for Bill Mason Films Ltd and was born February 1919. Obituaries at [8] and [9]. He left wife Sally, a son, three daughters and eleven grandchildren. Full genealogy at [10]. 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason (b. 9.11.15) was a posthumous child, the Lord Mayor died in April 1905. DuncanHill (talk) 13:56, 12 December 2021 (UTC)~~[reply]

Thank you. The ethnicelebs site is useful, but sadly not a reliable source; nether is the source it cites, familysearch. Also, I'd like to verify and clarify the "descended from Rowland Hill" claim made in Bill's obituary in the Guardian. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:30, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(ecx2) Rowland Hill Berkeley married Eliza and had two daughters. His wife died in her nineties during the war [11]. His daughter Elsie Ann Berkeley was Bill Mason's mother. 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 14:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In future please don't restore a comment of mine that I have removed. DuncanHill (talk) 14:45, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's sourcing for the descent from the postmaster general at Bill Mason (director). 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it is that source which I wish to verify and clarify. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

...and please don't indent my comments so that they appear to reply to someone other than who I was addressing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There was a "Rowland Hill Berkeley" born in Birmingham in 1849, described as a 22-year old Grocer in the 1871 Census. He died on 13 April 1905 in Birmingham. Still described as a Grocer on his death and was the Lord Mayor of Birmingham. He may be the Rowland H Berkeley aged 51 in the 1901 Census although he is described as a "Steel Toy Maker" with a wife Eliza and two daughters Elsie A aged 18 and Kate aged 16. MilborneOne (talk) 17:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

His parents are John Berkeley a Coal Dealer and Ann Hill both from Worcestershire. Ann Hill was born around 1805 but not listed in Thomas Wright Hill as a sister of Rowland Hill so perhaps a more distant relation. Doesnt appear close enough to mention without some reliable sourcing. MilborneOne (talk) 17:26, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MilborneOne: One of the obituaries provided by User:DuncanHill has RHB as both a grocer and owner of a steel goods factory, so that fits. Many thanks. Can you substantiate Elsie A as the mother of Bill Mason (birth name Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason), please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Pigsonthewing: Elsie A Berkeley married "Edward D Mason" in 1911. In the 1939 Register he is listed a a "Director Scientific Apparatus Manufacturer". Children include "Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason" born 9 Nov 1915. MilborneOne (talk) 17:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, Rowland Hill wasn't postmaster general. I was getting confused with Anthony Trollope, who had post office connections. Descent from him is discussed at [12]. His only son had various children with "Torrens" as a middle name. Here [13] we learn that he assisted in the colonisation of South Australia - many of his family emigrated there. Hill worked with Robert Torrens, whose son Robert Richard Torrens designed the Torrens system of land registration introduced there (that article looks as if it needs another redirect). 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article written: Rowland Hill Berkeley. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:00, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Longest lifespan of anyone who could have become President

Jimmy Carter is 97. However, Bob Dole recently died at 98, so Carter is not the longest-lived person who could have become President. Are you wondering what I mean?? Bob Dole could have become President in either of 2 ways:

If Ford had won the 1976 election and died while in office, Dole would have become the 39th President.
If Clinton had been defeated by Dole in the 1996 election, Dole would have become the 43rd President.

However, if my knowledge is right, it is John Nance Garner who has the longest lifespan of anyone who could have become President. Specifically:

If Franklin Roosevelt had died between 1933 and 1941, Garner would have become the 33rd President.

Can you disprove me?? If so, who has the record lifespan of anyone who could have become President?? (This can be either by winning the election or by succeeding by the elected President's death; I did examples of both kinds in the case of Dole. I did the latter in the case of Garner.) Georgia guy (talk) 17:02, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If Thelma Sutcliffe of Omaha, Nebraska., had decided to run for President in 2020 and had been elected, she would now be a President with a lifespan of slightly over 115 years. --Lambiam 19:22, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

However, if Sarah Knauss had run for President and won in 1996, she'd have died in office at 119 years old. --Jayron 32 03:39, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly the intent was to ask only about people who were candidates for, or who actually were, president or vice-president. Having said that, I'm not interested enough to attempt to answer it definitively. --184.144.99.241 (talk) 05:56, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the intent, scanning List of vice presidents of the United States returns only Garner, as GG said. (Passed away just a few days from turning 99, therefore had a lifespan a few months longer than Bob Dole). List of United States presidential candidates doesn’t contain birthdates so it would be up to Georgia guy to check everyone on that list one by one. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Taking those who were one step away from being president (either candidate for president or elected as vice president), you missed Alf Landon, candidate for the Republican Party in 1936 (lost from FDR), who died at an age of 100 years and 33 days. That's more than Garner's 98 years and 350 days. There's also Strom Thurmond, who was candidate for the States' Rights Democratic Party in 1948 and died at an age of 100 years and 203 days. I don't know if you consider him a serious candidate, but he won 4 states. PiusImpavidus (talk) 17:23, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

When and how was the Kachwaha dynasty established?

When and how was the Kachwaha dynasty established? -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 07:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See Kachwaha. 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 18:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Courtesy link: Kachhwaha. There's also a mention of its origins in Kachchhapaghata dynasty#Downfall. Alansplodge (talk) 18:49, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 13

Is dutch east indies involved in world war 1

Well, only india then british colonies can fought wars in 1914 to 1918. then why there is no section for dutch east indies? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_I#Non-state_combatants in this page only mentions the word netherlands once https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_and_Pacific_theatre_of_World_War_I#Gallery ow man, what happened to the dutch colony east indies? then the fate is unknown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Army_during_World_War_I Oh no! only india can provide the article. then India ignored Dutch east indies! India wins! Indonesia Lost!2404:8000:1005:555:C0EE:F0EE:B396:6DF3 (talk) 06:02, 13 December 2021 (UTC) they can only provide indian army not dutch east indies army[reply]

A short glance at the map at the top of the first article you linked would have told you that the Dutch East Indies, along with their coloniser, where neutral during World War 1. That doesn't mean they were unaffected, that doesn't mean that public opinion didn't choose sides, but they tried very hard not to get involved. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:08, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Netherlands Indies and the Great War: 1914-1918 has some details. Initially it was thought that Japan might invade, so a militia was recruited. As the war went on, the loss of trade resulted in severe economic hardship. The colonial government gave concessions to the independence movements to keep them onside, and there was greater autonomy due to the difficulty of communication with the Netherlands. However, the status quo was restored after the war. Alansplodge (talk) 09:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Diversity training and DEI outside the United States?

Nowadays in the United States, companies have spent billion on diversity training for their employees while most colleges and universities have sizable bureaucracy dedicated to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). Do other countries especially those in the West also have diversity training and DEI? StellarHalo (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@StellarHalo DEI phrasing is quite US specific phrasing, but even so due to US multinational companies expanding, the concepts are 'exported' to other countries. For example see [14]. But in general, different countries have different legal/social practices. This article lists 120 diversity in tech initiatives which is undoubtedly US influences, but also has a trickle down effect/own histories [15] ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 11:27, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Diversity and Inclusion Training" is the name commonly used in Canada, and it's quite common, both in the public and private sector. It often places particular importance on issues related to First Nations and other indigenous Canadians, as these are very salient here. See here: [16]. Xuxl (talk) 13:06, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Russia vs Ukraine

Ok I'm new at this so please don't bring on any ultra contentious political issues that I'm clueless about. There is saber rattling in the news about Russia possibly getting ready to invade Ukraine. Let's ignore all the moral and military issues, international reaction and all that, and assume that the invasion, if launched, will be successful. That leaves the question: why would Putin *want* to invade Ukraine? What would he do with it once he has it? It sounds almost like California invading Oregon. Oregon surrenders, but then what? :: It doesn't seem like much of a gain, given the increased hassle of governing the bigger combined territory. Are there important resources or anything like that? Thanks. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 07:49, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Forget even Russia and Ukraine. Take any combination of 2 big states/ alliances and a buffer state in between. For convenience we will consider A and C are big powers and b is in between buffer state.

A and C both tend to benefit in having a buffer state in between by having to spend less on standing forces right at the border.

Problem starts with mutual distrust between big forces, if they start feeling that other adversary might capture buffer state.

Adversary capturing buffers state has two likely costs

a) Buffer ends and any ways you shall need to spend more on standing force to defend yourself.

b) Doing war at your own border has more direct bearing than doing war on some one else's territory.

So big powers will always try buffer really remains buffer but if buffer itself tries to compromise and do military favoritism to either of one big power the other power will obviously feel threatened and take steps to capture buffer.

If win is assured managing territory remains a lesser immediate concern, (though over powering buffer state can cost high like Afghanistan, at times of actual managing the territory) But in times of mutual distrust immediate concerns and benefits get more weightage than long term implications. IMHO

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 09:30, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So rather like the Prisoner's dilemma, in that both sides are encouraged to do something that makes things worse for everyone, because if they don't but the other does, they will be even worse off. Iapetus (talk) 10:04, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, almost. Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 10:52, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a New York Times podcast (with transcript) about why Putin might want to invade Ukraine. Card Zero (talk) 09:32, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So, there are a couple of things going on here.

1) The biggest issue right now is Ukraine's potential membership in NATO. Russia considers Ukraine joining NATO to be an existential threat, and will do anything pre-emptively to stop that. The previous former states in the Russian sphere of influence to join NATO were Poland and the Baltic States, and Russia does not intend to cede any more ground in that regard. It seeks to maintain buffer states such as Ukraine and Belarus and prevent any further expansion of NATO along its borders. See, for example, here.

2) Since 2014, Russia has seen increasing Western encroachment into Ukraine as a major threat, even beyond the NATO overtures. That year, pro-Russian Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych was ousted, which Russia blamed on the West, and that was the main precipitating event in the Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. Crimea, which has been populated by a majority ethnic Russians, was only ceded to Ukraine during the Soviet era, though Russia was happy to let Ukraine keep it so long as there was a Russian-friendly leadership in the country. The annexation of Crimea and the related War in Donbas (another region with a large ethnically Russian population inside of Ukraine) are part of this issue. There's a belief that Putin seeks to annex Donbas, and also annex a corridor between all of these territories along the Black Sea. Russian access to the Black Sea is also something of an existential issue for Russia, going back well earlier than the Soviet days. Russia's historic lack of a warm-water port was seen as its major weakness in the years following its independence from Mongol suzerainty, and it spent most of the early centuries of its history expanding its empire southwards. The area along the Black Sea was annexed in 1783. From then on, Sevastapol was Russia's most important warm-water port, and it fought vehemently to hold on to it. The disastrous Crimean War shows just how valuable Russia has always held this area. See here or here for information regarding Russia seeking a land corridor to Crimea.

--Jayron 32 12:42, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone. Jayron32's answer in particular was very enlightening. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 03:36, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looking up a German court case

Hi, I was wondering if anybody know how to lookup a German court case. I've not been able to make any headway against it at at. The number is Case 8K 5055/94 under judge Kohlheim. It is regarding the diplomat Rudolf von Scheliha on whether he took payments for delivering reports to Soviet intelligence. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 12:02, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to This, German court records are not normally made public. --Jayron 32 12:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

German law does not have a stare decisis principle in the same way that legal systems derived from the English Common Law do, so there hasn't been the same incentive to make court records public... AnonMoos (talk) 15:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Right. I read that. What I'm really looking for I guess, whether the court case actually exists. That woud help a bit. I did a search, but couln't see much. scope_creep^Talk 15:29, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are looking for a case at the Nazi Reichskriegsgericht from 1942, right? Its (fragmentary) archival materials are handled by the Bundesarchiv; there's a page about them here. It mentions that it has some material relating to the "Red Orchestra" trials, if that helps you. I couldn't access the online inventory ("Findbuch") right now, but you might want to give a try later. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:42, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Or if this refers to the 1995 verdict by the Verwaltungsgericht Köln (Cologne administrative court, judge’s name presumably Jürgen Kohlheim) which is mentioned in de:Rudolf von Scheliha: maybe put in a request at nrwe@olg-koeln.nrw.de (some verdicts are published at NRWE, but I couldn’t find this particular one). Cheers ❖_hugarheimur 16:49, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I never thought of looking at the de article, weirdly. That's a good angle. I'll check that out. scope_creep^Talk 18:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The De article is completely non-specific but I have forwarded an email. Thanks folks. See what happens and I will keep you updated. scope_creep^Talk 19:06, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They have come back, the procedural care unit. They have posted the request directly to the Cologne Administrative Court and as its a research request no charge will be made. See what happen's now. scope_creep^Talk 14:57, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Future Perfect at Sunrise: I've not looked at it yet, but it might be handy to flesh out some last minute details. scope_creep^Talk 15:02, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Paradox name

A stranger comes up to me in a shopping mall and says "Never accept unsolicited advice from strangers", then walks away.

I'm a reasonable man and this sounds like good advice. But I quickly discover I cannot accept his advice without rejecting it, and I cannot reject his advice without accepting it. My life is now at an end, consumed in an endless vortex of impossibilities.

Is there a name for this paradox? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:26, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@JackofOz It sounds like a logic related paradox, e.g. liar paradox? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 21:33, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's very close to the liar paradox. But there's a way out of Jack's paradox; namely, Jack can reject this particular stranger's advice by sometimes accepting unsolicited advice from strangers, just not in this particular instance.

That's also a loophole in some versions of the Liar, in particular Paul's:

One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.
— Paul, Titus 1:12

We can resolve the paradox by stipulating that some Cretians are liars, in particular this one of themselves, but that they are not alway liars. --Trovatore (talk) 21:45, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What about Cretans? Or truthiful, Trump-supporting Cretins? Clarityfiend (talk) 05:18, 14 December 2021 (UTC) [reply]

Cretian is the spelling in the KJV. Though I haven't checked whether it's alway spelled that way. --Trovatore (talk) 17:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You could yell back at him, "Always remember to never say 'always' or 'never'!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:43, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Epimenides paradox, see also: Self-refuting idea. --2603:6081:1C00:1187:9426:C089:AB21:5AB2 (talk) 21:47, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Raymond Smullyan wrote several books about these puzzles, fwiw: see Raymond_Smullyan#Logic_problems. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 18:32, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's a Catch-22. Omidinist (talk) 02:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 14

When is a suicide not a suicide?

From Leslie Phillips:

The coroner recorded that Scoular had "killed herself while the balance of her mind was disturbed", and stated that her death was not suicide.

How can this be? He just acknowledged she had killed herself. Why does the state of one's mind affect whether killing oneself is suicide or not? Does it have something to do with life insurance payouts? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Accidental death is not a suicide, even if it is self-inflicted. Terry Kath, for example shot himself in the head, but his death was not a suicide. --Jayron 32 18:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To record a verdict of suicide the coroner must be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the deceased intended to kill themself. If the subject's balance of mind was disturbed then they lacked the capacity to form that intent. DuncanHill (talk) 18:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Really, beyond a reasonable doubt??? I'm guessing that's a holdover from when it was considered a crime? --Trovatore (talk) 19:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy link: Capacity (law) --Jayron 32 19:12, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy reminder: This discussion is only relevant to the specific jurisdiction where the event occurred, in this case England. Other places' laws may be more sensible, or less sensible, or otherwise different. --184.144.99.241 (talk) 21:34, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The law and its relationship to suicide has an unhappy history. In his 18th century Commentaries on the Laws of England, Sir William Blackstone considered the taking of one’s own life as something that ‘ranked among the highest crimes’... (punishable by) an ignominious burial ‘with a stake driven through his body’ and ‘forfeiture of all his goods and chattels’ as a deterrent ‘from so desperate and wicked an act’. By the 20th century, attitudes had changed and while suicide still attracted stigma and moral objection, a less severe jurisprudence was reflected in The Suicide Act 1961, which made the deliberate act of killing oneself no longer a crime.

Suicide and the burden of proof from The Law Society Gazette. The article goes on to say that the standard of proof remains the same as in a criminal prosecution. In other words, the jury had to be satisfied so as to be sure that the deceased intended to kill himself.

Alansplodge (talk) 21:55, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Our Suicide legislation article has a table showing the surprising number of countries where it is still illegal to kill yourself, including a few US states. Alansplodge (talk) 22:15, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since homicide is the taking of another life, on purpose or not, why is suicide not the taking of one's own life, on purpose or not? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:23, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To be found guilty of murder in England, intent to kill or cause serious harm has to be proved. Manslaughter in England can be either "voluntary" or "involuntary", depending on whether malicious intent can be proved. Alansplodge (talk) 22:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not murder, but homicide. I've seen arguments here frequently, that the taking of another's life qualifies as homicide even if there's no criminal intent. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For example, in Canada the Criminal Code reads in part:

222 (1) A person commits homicide when, directly or indirectly, by any means, he causes the death of a human being.

(2) Homicide is culpable or not culpable.

(3) Homicide that is not culpable is not an offence.

--184.144.99.241 (talk) 03:59, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Ingalls not in the war

How come Charles Ingalls did not fight in the Civil War? 86.130.215.169 (talk) 21:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Ingalls: The Civil War Years says that nobody really knows, but unless you actually volunteered, the various drafts were a bit of a lottery because states stopped conscripting once their quota had been filled. The more volunteers there were in a state, the fewer men had to be drafted. Alansplodge (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article cites a review of the following book, which might provide details:

Fraser, Caroline (2017). Prairie fires : the American dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder (First ed.). New York. ISBN 1627792767.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) --2603:6081:1C00:1187:9426:C089:AB21:5AB2 (talk) 22:31, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This informative blog says "how or why he might have escaped service has long plagued Little House readers." (Maybe he gave his address as "Little House on the Prairie", and they had trouble finding it.) Clarityfiend (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to Conscription in the United States#Civil War "The vast majority of troops were volunteers; of the 2,200,000 Union soldiers, about 2% were draftees, and another 6% were substitutes paid by draftees" so perhaps not that unusual for him to have stayed at home. Do we know what percentage of men in the Union did fight? DuncanHill (talk) 23:36, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

How to determine the official publisher of a book

I'm trying to keep a reading list so that I can keep track of the books I read. One issue I've come across is determining the publisher of the book I'm reading. For example, I am correctly reading this book. Which is the definitive publisher I should be using for my list: Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group, Schocken Books, or Penguin Random House? They're all listed as the publisher, but I have to pick one. What is the general rule in situations like this? --Puzzledvegetable^{Is it teatime already?} 02:26, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What does it say on the spine? DuncanHill (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The book says Schocken Books, but I can't find it listed under that publisher anywhere online. Schocken Books is an imprint of Penguin Random House, but PRH's website lists it under their Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group imprint and that's the name that comes up on all the online databases. My problem isn't really about this book in particular. Is there a systematic way to officially determine which publisher name the book should be cited with? The name that appears in the actual book can just be a "brand name" used by the actual publisher. --Puzzledvegetable^{Is it teatime already?} 02:46, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, a book may appear under different imprints in different countries, even if printed from the same plates in the same printworks. Perhaps the idea of a "definitive publisher" breaks down under modern business structures. In this case I would suggest going with the "top-level" of the available options, Penguin Random House. DuncanHill (talk) 02:52, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sulla's relationships - censorship

Dear,

I noticed that before the page on the Roman statesman Sulla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla contained information that during his life and retirement he lived together with another man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrobius.

But somehow this has now been censored out. Although other aspects of his life (and speculations about it) are dealt with in great detail, there is not even a mention as a "rumour" even though it is directly mentioned (and commented upon) by two classic authors. The last few years, it has re-appeared then disappeared again from the Sulla article; apparently some people do not want any mention of a possible LGBT-perspective for a great Roman statesman ? This is censorship.

It seems to me the section about Metrobius could be appropriately mentioned as a whole (or at least referenced) in the article about Sulla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.224.117.63 (talk) 03:19, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 280: / Line 280: @@
 ::To be found guilty of [[Murder in English law|murder in England]], intent to kill or cause serious harm has to be proved. [[Manslaughter in English law|Manslaughter in England]] can be either "voluntary" or "involuntary", depending on whether malicious intent can be proved. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 22:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 :::Not murder, but ''homicide''. I've seen arguments here frequently, that the taking of another's life qualifies as homicide even if there's no criminal intent. --←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 22:48, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
+::::For example, in Canada the [http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/FullText.html Criminal Code] reads in part:
+::::::222 (1) A person commits homicide when, directly or indirectly, by any means, he causes the death of a human being.
+::::::(2) Homicide is culpable or not culpable.
+::::::(3) Homicide that is not culpable is not an offence.
+::::--[[Special:Contributions/184.144.99.241|184.144.99.241]] ([[User talk:184.144.99.241|talk]]) 03:59, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 == Charles Ingalls not in the war ==