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Cordless Larry, a Teahouse host

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template warning: where is the best place to ask for help?

Hi! I'm seeking help on how to improve an article with a template warning, and ideally get it removed. I did what I could to clean up the article but could use more help from the editing community to ensure it is edited appropriately to meet BLP standards and correct the issues on the template.

Where is the best place to ask for and get help with this?

The page is bioartist / BBC 100 women Amy Karle. It was originally created during a Women in Red wiki-a-thon in 2021.

Thank you~~ ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey. Anyone can remove a maintenance template when they feel the reason why the template was added has been sufficiently addressed. There's a link in the template that provides more information on this. However, just as the adding of the template was mainly based on someone's personal (subjective?) assessment of relevant Wikipedia policies or guidelines, your removal of such template is also based on your assessment that the "problem" has been sufficiently addressed. So, if you do decide to remove the template, you should make sure you leave an edit summary clearly explaining why. Often, it also helps to follow up your edit with an article talk page post going into further detail why you removed the template. If someone subsequently decides to re-add it, you can then use the article talk page to engage this person or others to see what additional concerns they might have and figure out collaboratively how to resolve them. The thing you want to do here is avoid edit warring over the template since that will likely end badly for everyone involved. If you feel that removing the template is too WP:BOLD of a step for you to take at this point, you can be WP:CAUTIOUS and propose its removal first. You can check the page's history to see who added the template, and simply WP:PING them in your article talk page post to see what they might have to say about your attempts to clean things up. If they agree that the issue has been resolved, then removing the template should be non-contentious; if not, then perhaps the two of you together can figure out how to resolve things. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for this info User:Marchjuly! I feel ok with making updates recommended in the template, but not to remove the template myself. I asked for editing help to improve the article on the talk page and requested that if the updates are sufficient to please remove the template. I hope some editors will be able to help. 23:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC) ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 23:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

• If you look on the talk page, the editor who added the template commented there just today. Probably the thing to do is to engage with them there and see if they think the issue is resolved. (At a glance I think there are probably still some issues.) Stuff like she creates work that looks forward to a future where technology can support and enhance the human condition reads as puffery to me. And it's cited to her bio from a festival where she had an exhibition - you have to be careful when using those as sources because they're often written in a promotional tone (either by the subject themselves, or by the festival organizers, who have an incentive to promote their speakers.) They're usable as sources but I wouldn't quote one verbatim for the subject's description in the article voice like that. --Aquillion (talk) 22:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

  Hi User:Aquillion thank you for getting back to me on this! I removed that line and some other puffy areas. I think there are still some issues as well, but can't spot them so easily. If you have time, would you please suggest any other areas to resolve the template issue or edit directly if you are so inclined? Thank you! ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 00:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I did a bit of trimming of this overly wordy and over-referenced article. David notMD (talk) 09:13, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits and help @David notMD! ArtistWatch MuseumSurvey (talk) 22:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Is it a spam comment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mentor_Graphics

There is a comment mentioned under title "Forever living products international." Is this relevant for this chat? Wikieditor 2027 (talk) 14:53, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

It's been removed as spam. – dudhhr ^talk _contribs (he/they) 14:57, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

That spammer made only one edit 14 months ago, and hasn't been heard from again. Cullen328 (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Why do Wikipedia project pages not have page previews?

It is my understanding that upon hovering over a link to an article, by default an excerpt of the first paragraph along with an image from the article will appear. However, for Wikipedia project pages, these do not appear. Also, "MOS:" links always show an error for me, because they redirect to project pages(?) It seems that previews are disabled for project pages. Is there any way to turn them on? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 19:40, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@LOOKSQUARE, hmm, I'm not sure about that. The documentation page is at mw:Page Previews. You could try asking at the talk page there. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:37, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

No, the page previews work only in the mainspace. However you can disable them alltogether and try the Navigation popups gadget instead. Ruslik_Zero 20:43, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I stopped using page previews years ago, and rely solely on Navigation Popups for previewing pages across (I believe)all spaces, and for quickly getting information on users' contributions and userpages, etc. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:47, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

As I understand it, Navigation popups was a community-built gadget that predated the foundation-built Page Previews. I've never tried it, since I find that Page previews works fine, and I try to keep my interface relatively close to the interface that readers see so that I don't inadvertently make changes that favor editors. If there are elements of Navigation popups that would benefit readers or casual editors, I'd suggest pushing for those to be added to Page Previews so that they can benefit everyone. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:56, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sdkb Ah, well I found I needed to create a second account just to understand precisely what new users see (NM Demo 2). Unless defaults have changed yet again since I made that account 18 months ago, new users don't actually get Page Previews by default anyway; they have to proactively set them in the Preferences.

But, as an admin, I find Nav Popups far and away more useful - they may not be for everyday users, of course. It's the ability to not only get a small preview of the article or userpage, but also to see a complete dropdown menu of actions and links which lets one access history, user links, block logs, etc., and hovering over those then previews their latest contributions, deleted contributions, page history, and so on. One can delve into issues around one article or one user (or users who have recently interacted with that user) with just a few small mouse moves, rather than lots of page clicks.

That said, I was a great fan of Page Previews (aka Hovercards) when it was in beta and I wasn't doing behind-the-scenes work. Hence why I created this, now redundant, Userbox. I don't think I'll be pushing for the features I've described to be added to Page Previews though! Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 11:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Assumed years

In cataloguing a book/article square brackets are placed around a year when it doesn't appear but is certain/almost certain. Doing that here results in "{{cite book}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)". Is it possible to have years between square brackets? Mcljlm (talk) 23:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

The documentation for the date parameter of the {{cite book}} template says

For approximate year, precede with "c.", like this: date=c. 1900.

Would that work for what you want to do? CodeTalker (talk) 03:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

If that's the closest it will have to do but it's not ideal. Mcljlm (talk) 04:53, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

User:Mcljlm, if you have a book with a known modern republication date and a fuzzy original publication date, the best practice is to put the republication date in the |date= parameter, and use the more syntactically forgiving |orig-date= parameter to convey the uncertainty around original publication. There's a source I frequently cite where I have |orig-date=80s or 90s BCE and it works just fine. Note however that if you don't provide a value to either |date= or |year=, |orig-date= will not display. Folly Mox (talk) 18:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

How to correct nationality pulled from a database?

 Lion13 (talk) 23:56, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

The article Igor L. Markov shows an Authority Control box at the bottom, which indicates Czech Republic as nationality. However the article strongly suggests Ukraine. There is no obvious way to fix this.

Hmmm.... The bizzare thing is that even the authority control says Kyiv (Ukraine) but the source is the Czech National Authority Database and somehow this is being displayed as the person having a Czech nationality. I wonder if that's true for other non-Czech people who happen to be in that database. I don't know how to fix this either. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Lion13@Anachronist the authority control pulls info from Wikidata, so you'd need to go there to correct anything. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sdkb: I know, the wikidata page is https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64867104 but I have no idea what to change on it, tbere is no field for nationality. ~Anachronist (talk) 07:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Lion13: "National" in {{Authority control}} does not mean nationality of the subject. The box can link to various databases and many of them are labelled "National". William Shakespeare has 25 country links under "National" in the box. Igor L. Markov happens to only have one which isn't from his own country but the Czech National Authority Database at the National Library of the Czech Republic. It includes entries about foreigners, maybe authors with books in the library. The "National" label cannot be changed. Igor L. Markov (Q64867104) links to wikidata:Property:P691 so the whole entry could be omitted with {{Authority control|suppress=P691}}, but it's a legitimate link with information about the subject. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:25, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

How to make times in edit summaries display in 12-hour time

I'm used to reading things in 12-hour time, and I just found out how to change timestamps to my local timezone, but is there a way that I can convert it to say "AM" or "PM"? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 00:34, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I thought this might be in user preferences, but I don't see a setting for 12 vs 24 hour time. There is a setting for your local timezone, however, under "appearance".

Other than people in the United States who have never been in the military, the rest of the world understands 24 hour time quite well. As a US person myself, I personally don't see the need for AM/PM and I dropped using it 40 years ago. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:41, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist: that makes you at least 55 years old. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:33, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

What is your point? We have editors of all ages, for example, teahouse host Cullen328 is 71 according to his userpage. I am also aware of some teenage editors as well, but for sake of privacy I am not going to mention any. ✶Mitch199811✶ 21:53, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

(i'm canadian :Þ) LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 00:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Even better. Both formats are in common use in Canada (more so than the US) according to File:12 24 Hours World Map.svg.

That said, I do find it curious that there isn't a user setting for this. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

If you really want a quick and non-technical solution, subtract the hour by two and (most of the time) ignore the tens digit. For 22:00 and 23:00 Ive just kinda memorized as I cant really think of a fast way other then just subtracting by twelve (but that's icky and too much for my brain). ✶Mitch199811✶ 03:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

If you're willing to use a browser extension like TamperMonkey, then a userscript might help. I just made one that works on 'View History' pages but not on user signatures if that's of interest to you. Closhund/talk/ 22:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikiethics

Hi, I've been on Wikipedia for quite a few months already. This may be a bit off topic for me to be asking this at the Teahouse, but I want to know how I can improve:

1. How much Wikipedia time is too much Wikipedia time? How does one balance life with Wikipedia?
2. How does one not get demotivated? Surely there must be some point in time when an editor gets bored.
3. Why do people put so much of their time improving the encyclopedia (no offense, y'all are great at what you do)?

Thanks, Tarantula^TM (speak with me) (my legacy) 05:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Ya know, these are some interesting questions.

1. Too much Wikipedia time? Eh, imo we can set how long we edit Wikipedia, or just edit until they get bored. You've got your daily chores and work...

2. Sometimes editing is fun in working to help building and update the encyclopedia, however I believe if we just get bored at researching and updating and helping then that motivation decreases. I'm not sure exactly how it works since most times I am motivated by Wikipedia.

3. We're here to build an encyclopedia! Well, I like to update and edit, they just became my hobbies somehow. :) Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 08:03, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, TrademarkedTarantula. Editing Wikipedia is a hobby, and people participate because they enjoy it. Who can truly understand the underlying motivations of stamp collectors or people who build scale models? Both of those were hobbies of mine in the past. My wife has assembled a quite impressive collection of teapots, and I have often joked that I live in a teapot museum. And book collecting can become an obsession. If you don't have unlimited shelf space, you reach a point where you spend as much time weeding out less desirable books as you do buying and reading new books. I have been editing Wikipedia frequently for 14 years. Many aspects appeal to me, mainly the creation of free educational content for the benefit of everone, including future generations. The long term impact factor truly appeals to me. Before I edited Wikipedia, I did political opinion blogging for a few years. I came to realize that some people might read my opinions and analysis for a few days. But it would all be forgotten quite quickly as people inevitably moved onto the next hot button issue. But the work I have done writing and expanding articles has enduring value. Although I am sure that articles like Salade niçoise and Harry Yount and George Meany and Cedric Wright will be expanded and improved as time goes by. But I am highly confident that much of what I have written in these and many other articles will remain informative for many years to come, and that anyone who looks back on my work on Wikipefia after I am gone will consider it to be good work. I get to write about the topics that interest me and intrigue me the most, as well as topics that have suddenly attracted my interest, like Grace Quan, an article I wrote about a Chinese junk, historically reconstructed in California. All those articles and many others will be part of my legacy, along with my love for my wife, my sons and my granddaughter. I also get gratification from helping new editors along their path to becoming productive, long term Wikipedia editors. Cullen328 (talk) 08:43, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

You could take a look at Internet addiction disorder, which even has a (brief) section on Wikipedia addiction. You don't need to have an extreme addiction to consider some of the relevant factors. If you're balancing real life and Wikipedia, you should always choose real life. I've been editing for 18 years :) Why put so much time into it? Just look at what we've created so far. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 09:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@TrademarkedTarantula I recently responded to a request from a user to block their account and their ability to edit their talk page for a 6 month period. They found themselves too drawn into Wikipedia and they wanted to ensure they would have no distractions from their real life issues. That's quite a rare case, and there are other ways around it, but it does happen. See WP:SELFBLOCK. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

1. I don't know.
2. I do get demotivated sometimes. I usually just change the areas I work in: if I've been doing content creation for a long time, I might focus on RfD or AfD. I try to keep a varied wikidiet.
3. It's my hobby.

Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 13:52, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Categories and Templates

I just edited a page for Freddi Fish and Luther's Maze Madness and want to know how to add a category section and the template showing the other Humongous Entertainment games on that page. Can someone help me out? 2603:6010:8B45:FA00:D908:8865:6E43:7FDA (talk) 05:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Categories go at the very bottom of the Wikicode in the source editor. Though I am not certain, I think the template should go there as well, right above the categories. Cullen328 (talk) 07:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. Thank you for wanting to help improve Wikipedia, but I'm afraid that worrying about categories and templates for that article is like painting the windows of a house that is about to fall down. I have tagged it for its complete lack of independent sources, and its probable failure to meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability.

The only thing that can save the article is finding some sources which are all three of reliably published, wholly unconnected with the writers or publishers of the game, and containing significant coverage of it. ColinFine (talk) 17:14, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try to find more reliable information on it. I was really desperate to have pages for the Junior Arcade HE games, because I figured that people reading the Freddi Fish pages should know what they are about. 2603:6010:8B45:FA00:F8DC:6DAB:182:B6F4 (talk) 19:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Why won't images on the Russian Wikipedia work on the English Wikipedia?

I'm currently trying to edit Levan Abelishvili's article, and in doing so checked the other translations for the page for images. I found one such on the Russian translation under the name "Levan abelishvili.jpg". However, when pasting that where images would otherwise go inside infoboxes on the English Wikipedia, I was met with a red "File:Levan abelishvili.jpg" line of text where the image should be. Any ideas? Indochina2 (talk) 05:24, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

It could be an image that is uploaded directly to the Russian Wikipedia, and not Commons. In such a case it would need to be uploaded directly to the English Wikipedia. (I say this without knowing anything about the licensing of the image) 331dot (talk) 06:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

The picture at ru:WP is indeed hosted at Russian-language Wikipedia. To use an image here in English-language Wikipedia, it must be hosted either here or at Wikimedia Commons. It maybe be possible to copy the image to one of them, depending on its copyright status. There should be copyright information on the site credited by ru:WP, digitallibrary.tsu.ge: you'll need to be able to read Georgian to understand it. Maproom (talk) 07:52, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I see. I had assumed until now that all images were hosted on Commons. Thank you guys for addressing this for me. Indochina2 (talk) 10:28, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Indochina2 My knee-jerk reaction here is that I don't know if the source of the image, http://digitallibrary.tsu.ge, is good or just makes stuff up. Maybe you do.

If so, you can use it on en-WP as "fair use", because he's dead. Go to WP:FUW, choose "Upload a non-free file" > "This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use." > "This is a historical portrait of a person no longer alive.". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I wasn't aware that there were fringe cases where Wikipedia permitted images not explicitly stated to be free to be used on their platform. In the meantime, I found an image without the watermark the Russian Wikipedia's article bears, and have used that instead. Indochina2 (talk) 10:31, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Indochina2 Somewhat simplified, it applies to dead people, fictional people, stuff like book covers/film posters and logos (and very simple logos are allowed on Commons). But only in a WP article about the subject of the picture, so you can't put the fair use pic of Levan Abelishvili in for example Georgian Technical University. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Defclarea big real estate association in karachi pakistan please guide us.

i want to create a page as a defclarea big real estate association in karachi pakistan please guide us. Jaffarhussain9 (talk) 08:17, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Defclarea Wikipedia must not be used for advertising. Please read the messages on your talk page and WP:42. Also your draft is about to be deleted as a copyright infringement. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:40, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Rewriting "Gene Caesar" for publication

Many thanks to Theroadislong for their prompt and helpful response, particularly for the note "whole sections lack references." I'm trying to figure out what kinds of references would be acceptable.

For the section "Early life," I could photograph book covers and magazines with stories by Eunice Lee Caesar and Mildred Caesar. There's also a print newspaper article about Allan Caesar I should be able to find. Helpful?

For the section "Marriage and family," there is a newspaper article (paper) on the wedding, unfortunately with no date visible. I have my own birth certificate, and could probably find records for my two brothers. I have their baby books, with dates and even times of birth in them.

"Service to state government": quote appears in the image provided.

"Death": date could be substantiated by online sources. Cause of death: I am not sure that I still have the death certificate, but I can look. Obviously, I remember it well, from handling the death details and planning the funeral.

Apart from this, I understand that I need more outside reviews or writings about Gene Caesar's work?

Is this largely correct?

Many thanks again for your help. Caesarc (talk) 13:54, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Caesarc, statements in Wikipedia articles should be cited to reliable published independent sources. Certificates of birth and death don't help, as they haven't been published. You can cite books and magazines, giving their bibliographical details including author, name and date of publication, and page number. But uploading pictures of them won't help at all, and your uploads will be deleted as copyright violations. I see that Draft:Gene Caesar uses some pictures of book covers which you've uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, claiming them as your own work. Unless you're the artist who designed those book covers, they aren't your own work, and are likely to be deleted from Commons. Maproom (talk) 14:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Maproom. Would you have any suggestions for sources I could use? For biographical details, it would seem to me that the first published biography of any given subject must rely on primary sources like birth certificates, no? (Subsequent biographies could refer to already-published ones.)

I realize that Wikipedia is a tertiary source, and more secondary sources are needed. Would it be helpful for me to create a Gene Caesar biography, perhaps in website form, using my family documents and my own testimony? And then reference that?

Regarding copyright: I am the only direct descendant of Gene Caesar living. He has no spouse, siblings or other children alive. So I suppose I hold copyright to his works (and his family photos), if anyone does. I would be happy to cede this copyright to Creative Commons.

I greatly appreciate your assistance. Caesarc (talk) 14:29, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

_Subscript@ 2601:586:4C7F:DD00:60B7:DD43:D0DD:2B10 (talk) 15:10, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Caesarc, on WP, we demand secondary WP:RS, this is never the place to be "first." Primary sources can have some use, but they don't help with WP:N, neither does his books, directly. A webpage by you wouldn't help much per WP:SPS.

This book [1] p220-221 is the kind of source you need for WP:N, it mentions Caesar, and not just in passing. Check gbooks, archive.org, newspaper archives like ProQuest and Heritage_Microfilm,_Inc.#NewspaperArchive.

If can find you these sources, you should probably consider WP:BACKWARD. You may have to scale back, but it may be possible to make an article that can "stick". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:16, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks! I will pursue these sources. Caesarc (talk) 15:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@Caesarc And while his books don't help directly, if they get NYT reviews [2], that is quite interesting, and a good indicator that he should probably have a WP-article. WP:OFFLINE and WP:PAYWALL may be of interest. And [3] looks interesting if you can access it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:55, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I'm Arya?

Hello sir, I'm From Dahod, India Арья Шах Кинчиткумар 13:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Арья Шах Кинчиткумар! Welcome to the Teahouse, where you can ask questions about editing Wikipedia! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:54, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång please note that this is an LTA. Notrealname1234 (talk) 15:12, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Your User page is about to be deleted because it is not a place to attempt to create article-like content about yourself. See WP:UP for what goes there. David notMD (talk) 16:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

If anyone's interested, it's this one. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 16:49, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi sir, I love wikipedia and what i can do for it?

Sir, Please help me to write on Wikipedia - Johnlearningwiki (talk) 16:16, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Disengenuous to appear here as a new editor when your other two edits are at your User page Sandbox User:Johnlearningwiki/sandbox and Sandbox Talk, exploring a template for vandalism block. Do you have a different account, which has been blocked? David notMD (talk) 16:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft in french

I was wondering when we write in Englsih ,What is the specific therm in French? Veganpurplefox (talk) 16:37, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

The short description with the afc submission, whats the words to make it a draft in french Veganpurplefox (talk) 16:38, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

as my English version made it in a official Wikipedia page , I'm trying to make the French version but don't know the words used to start the draft

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Emslie# Veganpurplefox (talk) 16:40, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Veganpurplefox. French Wikipedia may or may not have a system corresponding to AFC, and may or may not have an equivalent of Draft space. If Translate us doesn't help (and I don't think it will), I suggest you ask at fr:Wikipédia:Forum des nouveaux ColinFine (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Further note: WP:Drafts isn't linked to a page on fr-wiki, which makes me think that they probably do not have draft space there. I may be wrong, though. ColinFine (talk) 17:31, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

OK thank you I will look it up Veganpurplefox (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Looking for advice on rewriting declined submission

Hi, newbie here! My Draft:Kate Hayllar didn't get approved to be a Wikipedia article, on the basis that my references don't show significant coverage about the subject. How would you suggest I improve my references? I'm new to this, so any help would be much appreciated. MikeDosch (talk) 17:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, MikeDosch, and welcome to the Teahouse and to Wikipedia.

I'm afraid that my principal advice would be to put aside the whole idea of creating a new article until you have been editing existing articles for a couple of months, and understand better how Wikipedia works.

But the direct answer to your question is: find several sources, each of which is 1) reliably published (probably all of yours are, except possibly the exhibition catalogue), 2) Wholly independent of Hayllar (the PhD thesis unfortunately is probably not, judging by the author's name; in any case, academic theses can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources (WP:SCHOLARSHIP); the exhibition catalogue is certainly not); and 3) contains significant coverage of Hayllar (the Thesis may well do so, but as noted, it has other limitations as a source, and none of the others look likely to).

Unfortunately, as many many new editors have discovered, beginning to write a draft without first finding such sources is like building a house without first surveying the ground to check it is stable and suitable. Please see BACKWARDS, as well as WP:YFA if you have not read that already. ColinFine (talk) 17:43, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Physical magazine

hello, if there are physical magazines for someone who doesn't have much articles online how do I access them to get the informations? The magazines were out years ago and are from UK news which I live in canada so I cannot cross Oceans to go in the country to ast if the magazines are still available Veganpurplefox (talk) 18:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

You may be able to ask if someone can find a resource at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request. The Internet Archive and Wikipedia Library might also have some digitized resources not available on the website of your magazine. ✶Mitch199811✶ 18:55, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Pages on individual locomotives

Hello. My name is Locomotive 150. I recently submitted the draft Draft:LMS Jubilee Class 5606 Falkland Islands for review and it didn’t pass. I have accepted this, but this raises questions for me on certain articles pertaining to individual steam locomotives. My main question is if these actually qualify as articles or even stubs. I’ll include a list of them below.

• BR Standard Class 7 70048 The Territorial Army 1908-1958
• GWR 4073 Class 7028 Cadbury Castle
• LMS Jubilee Class 5731 Perseverance

What I’m really trying to find out is how or why mine didn’t pass, but these did. Thank you for your time. Locomotive 150 (talk) 19:12, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Locomotive 150, welcome to the Teahouse!

Unfortunately as Wikipedia has millions of articles, there are loads of articles that no one has gotten around to fixing or deleting. Our notability guidelines have also become more strict over the years so it is likely that a few of those articles might not be accepted under the new rules. See Wikipedia:Other Stuff Exists.

However, I will note that your article was only 'declined'- this means you can re-submit it for review if you address the points made by the reviewer! The main issue seems to be that it doesn't have great secondary sources: if you're able to expand your article with some secondary sources then it can be reviewed again.

On the other hand, it is worth noting that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate database of information, so perhaps your (well written!) article would be better for a train-centric website or wiki? Qcne (talk) 20:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Locomotive 150. I agree that all three of those are dubious, and two of them already have long-standing tags calling attention to their deficiencies.

Ideally somebody (maybe you, since you are interested?) will put some time into looking for suitable sources for those articles, and either add citations, or nominate the articles for deletion if you think that suitable sources simply don't exist. ColinFine (talk) 20:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Locomotive 150. I happen to be an editor who is the primary author of an article about an individual locomotive, Sierra No. 3, often called the "Movie Star Locomotive" because of its appearance in many Hollywood movies and TV shows for decades. So, I certainly agree that individual locomotives can be notable. What establishes notability, though, is references to significant coverage of the individual locomotive in reliable, independent sources. The article that I wrote includes at least eight such references. Cullen328 (talk) 08:05, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Information about an editor

How can I find out more about the background of an editor who has commented on a draft article I've written -- in particular, his background in the subject area? Johsebb (talk) 20:56, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Johsebb, welcome to the Teahouse!

Often, Wikipedia volunteers add userboxes to their User Page which can include information on their editing interests, educational background, etc. You could also ask them on their User Talk page? The editor has no compulsion to answer, however. Qcne (talk) 21:28, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Johsebb Please be aware that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, as long as they comply with our policies and guidelines. And we mean that literally. A 15 year old who follows our policies and guidelines deserves more respect on Wikipedia than a PhD professor at a world famous university who does not comply with our policies and guidelines. Accordingly, it is inappropriate to inquire about any editors "background". After all, who knows anything about your background? You do not even have a userpage, and even if you did, you could be lying. So, forget about backgrounds, and focus instead on complying with policies and guidelines. That is literally all that matters on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 08:20, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments.

I had tagged my draft with two WikiProjects, namely Mathematics and Statistics, and expected (and hoped) that the editor would be associated with one or the other. I mean no disrespect in saying that this doesn't appear to be the case. Is this typical? Johsebb (talk) 01:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Johsebb, it's possible that there is overlap between members of those WikiProjects and Articles for Creation reviewers, but not necessarily. Reviewers are free to review any submission they like; sometimes they may pick a draft which corresponds to their own interests and/or background, but not necessarily. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:36, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Quest to be published.

New to this, I hoped to publish an independent article of a game that has been recently rebooted & sold. As it builds on the content of an original 30 year old release it warrents its own article as it continues to expand content. Unfortunately I'm struggling with early drafts Draft:HeroQuest (Avalon Hill) Help to get published would be very much appreciated. Escopana (talk) 22:04, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Escopana, your use of square brackets in the article is confusing. Maybe they're attempts to create links. You also have some direct external links in the body of the article. They should be avoided there. Maproom (talk) 22:22, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Corrections submitted, thanks. Escopana (talk) 12:15, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Escopana: Thanks for your effort. I think, in your draft, you used square brackets for explanation. That's the job of the parentheses "(" and ")". Please see Help:Punctuation for more information.

I also wish to second what User:Maproom said: direct external links should be avoided in the body of the article.

In general, you might wish to read a couple of Wikipedia articles and edit for quite a few times before you create your very first article, though you are always encouraged to contribute to Wikipedia, and I hope this draft will end up accepted. Cheers, -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 23:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Escopana. Language like revived & republished and reinvigorate & rebrand the original and rebooted & released to pledge backers is promotional jargon that does not belong in a neutrally written encyclopedia article. And when you write unreferenced stuff like Players can immerse themselves in the fantasy of original thematic artwork, crafted scatter terrain & detailed meeples [resin miniatures]. The core game system comes with 14 quests & has limitless replayability because players can also build their own [home-brew] quests & adventure campaigns in a continued battle of good versus evil., it is clear that you have not yet developed the skill of writing neutral encyclopedic prose. Marketing garbage like that belongs on company websites, not in an encyclopedia. Instead of trying to write an article to promote a "reboot", why not wrote an article about the original game, that mentions the current update briefly at the very end? That would be an actual encyclopedia article, instead of a promotional brochure masking as an encyclopedia article. Cullen328 (talk) 08:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Now I see that we already have an article HeroQuest about this existing game that already mentions the updated version. Why didn't you just edit the existing article instead of creating this new draft? Cullen328 (talk) 08:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Corrections submitted, thanks. Escopana (talk) 12:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I would like to have my edit requests looked at

Prior to today I would seek guidance from another user named Valereee (who in my opinion is a extremely kind person) and they (I always refer to someone as they/them if I'm uncertain of their preferred pronouns) told me that this would be a better option to get people to see if they can review my partial-block edit requests. Thanks in advance. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 22:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Your requests are open and visible- a volunteer will eventually get around to reviewing them. Please be patient, volunteers do what they can when they can. 331dot (talk) 08:51, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Ok, that was the one piece of information i was missing. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 09:06, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Help

I made a template (a stub template) but idk how to make categories, what do I do? ⌬ CH₃mificαtion! ⌬ 23:31, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Chemification, welcome to the Teahouse. You make categories by creating the category page in the same as other pages. You can click a red link to the category and save it with some content, e.g. adapted from a similar category. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Repeated Vandalism

Hello Teahouse,

Not sure if this is the right place to do this (would love to know how to do this correctly in the future!) but I would like to report repeated vandalism from a user on one specific page. An anonymous user has repeatedly (8 seperate times now, Special:Contributions/176.12.13.195) vandalized the article for Peter Eisenman. I believe this user should be blocked from editing the page, which I believe requires admin action. Thanks! SSR07 (talk) 00:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @SSR07, and welcome to the Teahouse! Vandalism after a fourth or only warning can be reported at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism (shortcut: WP:AIV). I have reported the IP. —charmquark ^she/_they talk contribs 01:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The IP vandal has been blocked for six months. Thanks for pointing this out, SSR07. Cullen328 (talk) 01:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you both! SSR07 (talk) 02:13, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Template code

Templates often have many arguments you can provide (like {{cite web}} can have date=, first=, last=, etc). Some code is converting the template and those arguments into html to be displayed. Where can I find that code? I assume it's freely available. Closhund/talk/ 01:33, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Closhund: The entire process from template to HTML isn't something that one person is expected to know, but (very) long story short:

There's an entire template namespace - the {{cite web}} template can be found at Template:Cite web. Viewing the source for said template reveals {{#invoke:citation/CS1|citation|CitationClass=web}}, which invokes a module called Module:Citation/CS1. This module, which is a Lua program, is run by mw:Extension:Scribunto (git) to generate wikitext, which is processed by MediaWiki (git). —charmquark ^she/_they talk contribs 02:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I assumed it would be something like Mustache, which I'm not familiar with. And some templates don't use #invoke, so this is more complicated than I hoped it would be. Thank you. I have a lot of reading to do. Closhund/talk/ 02:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Closhund: Here is an intro: Help:Template The "Parameters" section gives an overview of named and numbered arguments. Rjjiii (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Deleting talk pages

I can't find the rules for the process of proposing deletion of a talk page. The talk page in question is Talk:SAM JOSHI. It's not connected to an article (or it sort of is, but the article doesn't exist) it's just floating out in space. I think the content probably belongs in the userspace of the user who created it. I was going to use {{subst:Proposed deletion|concern=reason for proposed deletion}} but then it said it was only for articles, and this isn't really an article. If there is an appropriate guideline page for this situation I would love a link to it. Thanks. Ronsaur (talk) 02:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ronsaur: I think it is this template (for speedy deletion and not proposed deletion) which I have added in case I am wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASAM_JOSHI&diff=1170272683&oldid=1170265162 Rjjiii (talk) 03:04, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

That looks right for sure! Thank you so much for the help! Ronsaur (talk) 03:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

User contributions Q

I was checking out someone's user contrinutions and every page they edited had [rollback] [vandalism], with rollback in blue and vandalism in red. I've never seen this before. What does this mean? Dutchy45 (talk) 04:06, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@dutchy45: it's a feature of twinkle. clicking either will revert the edit: [rollback] prompts for a reason, while [vandalism] is used to revert vandalism. ltbdl (talk) 04:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Aaah, yeah I just installed that last week. Hadn't seen any user contributions since. Thanks @Ltbdl. Dutchy45 (talk) 04:57, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if I made a mistake in editing, please help me.

I made an edit on the tharosaurus page on wikipedia by adding a restoration because most of the restoration represent it inaccurately without the sail-like structure evidenced by the deep bifurcations present. I also did talk to one of the researchers who described it. But when I edited it, somebody reversed my change. I reversed it back again, please tell me if I did something wrong... DaDinoNerdBoi (talk) 05:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi DaDinoNerdBoi, it was me that reverted your edits. The first edit I thought the drawing was of a cat. I didn't have my glasses on, so apologies for that. I don't believe the rendition was of high enough quality for Wikipedia, but other may have differing opinions. Someone else may be able to help you out. Knitsey (talk) 05:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

DaDinoNerdBoi, you are trying to add a deeply amateurish illustration of a dinosaur that somebody created today. The eyes are bizarre. Another editor disagrees. You need to gain consensus to add that image. What is your connection with the editor who created that image? Cullen328 (talk) 05:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh no no! those aren't the eyes! those are meant to be mimicry! it is a plausible functionality for the sails, the eyes are present of the head, at the end of the neck. sorry for the misunderstanding! DaDinoNerdBoi (talk) 06:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

DaDinoNerdBoi, the image sucks because it is cartoonish and amateurish. I did better drawings 60 years ago when I was illustrating The Flintstones fan fiction as a member of the Cub Scouts. You failed to answer my direct question, which to repeat is What is your connection with the editor who created that image? Please answer that question now. Cullen328 (talk) 07:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, no the image does suck as amateurish and cartoonish, also it may be good to get Wikipedia:WikiProject Palaeontology/Paleoart review invovled as well. Lavalizard101 (talk)

meant Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs/Image review and have created a section for it Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs/Image review#Tharosaurus. Lavalizard101 (talk) 11:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree. There is no place for guesswork by amateur artists in this encyclopaedia, or we'll all be doing our own sketches in MS Paint of notable people when there's no other free image available of them! If a properly trained palaeontologist collaborates with a competent artist to create a serious, academic attempt at a life-like interpretation, then that could be used if the artist has been persuaded to release it under a useable licence. But we have to draw the line somewhere; it just shouldn't be drawn and shown here. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

This topic has been rehashed many times in policy discussions [4] [5]. WP:DINO/WP:PALEO has a peer review process precisely for this reason, to ensure that all user-created images are grounded in reliable sources. Regardless, the image in question here is, in my opinion, unlikely to pass without serious modification. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 01:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Need help making an article better

Hello, Please I'm a new editor and I created a new article about a Media Entrepreneur doing remarkable work in my country. I have no personal affiliations with her, however the page was moved to draftspace with a remark of possible conflict of interest. I guess It's in the way I wrote the article. I have made some adjustments to the article, I'll appreciate is any of the volunteers can review and share feedback on what to do to ensure I follow Wikipedia's guidelines. Thank you

Debbylicious (talk) 10:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Debbylicious, you claim to have no affiliation with her, yet you also claim to have taken her professional portrait. Don't lie to us. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 13:59, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The person's portrait you uploaded, has been deleted by an admin over at the Commons. Please do not upload images you may have found on Google or somewhere on the web and claim its your own work. 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 15:01, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Debbylicious, before you do ANY MORE EDITING it is required that you declare on your User page if you have either a paid or personal connection to her or her husband. If you do not, declare that on your Talk page. David notMD (talk) 16:32, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. I’ll ensure I give proper image credit next time. Debbylicious (talk) 18:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Change article title

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Coastal_Observatory I would like to change the same of this article (I work with the manager of the programme and it was changed in 2022 the name that is, we are no longer referred to as Plymouth Coastal Observatory. We had to make a new user account as we did not have access to the original the new user is SWCM2023 originally we were allthingscoastal, could we please change the article title to South West Coastal Monitoring Programme SWCM2023 (talk) 10:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello SWCM2023. First, your username is a violation of the username policy. You cannot have the name representing the company, and it (as well as your use of "we" implies that your account is being used by multiple people. As for your question, unless you have a reliable source, the title of the article probably won't be changed. Asparagusus (interaction) 12:51, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The original name of the article, is fairly accessible to the public. Currently the new name is possibly best as a redirect? This is a subject best addressed on the articles, talk page. Broichmore (talk) 13:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I have requested the change of username and this account is for my own use, I was unaware of the rules previously I apologise. There are government pages available, this is a soft rebranding. SWCM2023 (talk) 13:54, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

How can i fix this?

I want to move:
Tropical Storm Amelia (1978) to Tropical Storm Amelia because this Amelia was more notable then the other Amelias, plus it was the only Amelia in the Atlantic.
Tropical Storm Delia (1973) to Tropical Storm Delia because it was the only time the name Delia was used for a storm in the Atlantic.
and Typhoon Doksuri (2023) to Typhoon Doksuri because it's literally the second-costliest typhoon and it killed over 136 people.
but when i try to move them, it says that a page with that name already exists, or the name i have chosen is not valid.
How do you fix this? EvilDumplingDuck (talk) 12:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @EvilDumplingDuck! You are making an argument that the articles should be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. My suggestion would be to post this at WT:WEATHER, which is a very active WikiProject. Folks there will be able to check whether these moves are justified and to perform them if so. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 13:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, okay. EvilDumplingDuck (talk) 2:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I contributed an adition to entry of Xiefei on August 14th 2023 earling morning. 6 hours later. I found

I contributed an adition to entry of Xiefei on August 14th 2023 earling morning. 6 hours later. I found the addition was deleted. Who deleted and Why? The addition is Themes and Style. Jingfua (talk) 13:06, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Your addition to Xie Fei (director) was reverted because it added unsourced content to a biographical article. All content requires reliable published sources to back it up. Theroadislong (talk) 13:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

See Help:REFSTART for instructions on how to add a source. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 13:27, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi，I just copied Martin Scorsesse entry. There is no source mentioned too. Can you explain?

Filmmaking style and technique[edit source]

Several recurring filmmaking techniques are identifiable in many of Scorsese's films. He has established a filmmaking history which involves repeat collaborations with actors, screenwriters, film editors, and cinematographers, sometimes extending over several decades, such as that with recurring cinematographers Michael Ballhaus, Robert Richardson, and Rodrigo Prieto.

Slow motion and freeze frame[edit source]

Scorsese is known for his frequent use of slow motion, for example, in Who's That Knocking at My Door (1967) and Mean Streets (1973). He is also known for using freeze frames, such as: in the opening credits of The King of Comedy (1983), throughout Goodfellas (1990), Casino (1995), The Departed (2006), and in The Irishman (2019). His blonde leading ladies are usually seen through the eyes of the protagonist as angelic and ethereal; they wear white in their first scene and are photographed in slow motion—Cybill Shepherd in Taxi Driver; Cathy Moriarty's white bikini in Raging Bull; Sharon Stone's white minidress in Casino. This may be a nod to director Alfred Hitchcock. Scorsese often uses long tracking shots, as seen in Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Casino, Gangs of New York, and Hugo. MOS sequences set to popular music or voice-over are regularly seen in his films, often involving aggressive camera movement and/or rapid editing. Scorsese sometimes highlights characters in a scene with an iris, an homage to 1920s silent film cinema (as scenes at the time sometimes used this transition). This effect can be seen in Casino (it is used on Sharon Stone and Joe Pesci), Life Lessons, The Departed (on Matt Damon), and Hugo. Some of his films include references/allusions to Westerns, particularly Rio Bravo, The Great Train Robbery, Shane, The Searchers, and The Oklahoma Kid. Slow motion flashbulbs and accented camera/flash/shutter sounds are often used, as is the song "Gimme Shelter" by The Rolling Stones heard in several of Scorsese's films: Goodfellas, Casino, and The Departed.

Cameo appearances[edit source]

Scorsese usually has a quick cameo in his films (Who's That Knocking at My Door, Boxcar Bertha, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, After Hours, The Last Temptation of Christ (albeit hidden under a hood), The Age of Innocence, Gangs of New York, Hugo), he is also known to contribute his voice to a film without appearing on screen (e.g. as in The Aviator and The Wolf of Wall Street). In The Age of Innocence, for example, he appears in the non-speaking role of a large format portrait photographer in one of the passing scenes of the film. He provides the opening voice-over narration in Mean Streets and The Color of Money; plays the off-screen dressing room attendant in the final scene of Raging Bull, and provides the voice of the unseen ambulance dispatcher in Bringing Out the Dead. He also appears as the director of fictional newly formed Vatican Television in the Italian comedy In the Pope's Eye. Jingfua (talk) 19:51, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Those numbers you see in square brackets (which I see you're quoted text has removed compared to the article) are sources. As told to you before wikipedia requires reliable sources Lavalizard101 (talk) 20:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Dear Jingfua:

Welcome to the teahouse. Let's go through a paragraph you just quoted.

Scorsese is known for his frequent use of slow motion, for example, in Who's That Knocking at My Door (1967) and Mean Streets (1973). He is also known for using freeze frames, such as: in the opening credits of The King of Comedy (1983), throughout Goodfellas (1990), Casino (1995), The Departed (2006), and in The Irishman (2019). His blonde leading ladies are usually seen through the eyes of the protagonist as angelic and ethereal; they wear white in their first scene and are photographed in slow motion—Cybill Shepherd in Taxi Driver; Cathy Moriarty's white bikini in Raging Bull; Sharon Stone's white minidress in Casino.

You will see numbers in brackets, like what Lavalizard101 said, after sentences. These are the references to the sources.

You may hover your cursor over these numbers, and they will bring you to the links. The information on Scorsese's page comes from these links.

Now, if you wish to add information to the page of Xie Fei, you must first find information from internet sources and make sure they are reliable (for the criteria of reliability, please read WP:RS). Then, please use templates such as {{cite web}} to cite your sources in the article. Again, referring back to the example you brought up, the first sentence looks like this in code:

Scorsese is known for his frequent use of [[slow motion]], for example, in ''Who's That Knocking at My Door'' (1967) and ''Mean Streets'' (1973).<ref>[http://www.sensesofcinema.com/2002/great-directors/scorsese/ Martin Scorsese] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101225033838/http://www.sensesofcinema.com/2002/great-directors/scorsese/ |date=December 25, 2010 }} by Marc Raymond, ''Senses of Cinema'' (online), May 2002</ref>

If you do not provide your sources, the information you put up will be contested and likely removed. I hope this explanation is detailed enough. Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Cheers, -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 00:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Hey @Jingfua and welcome to the Teahouse.

First of all, were you editing the article while logged out? The edit on August 14 shows that an IP address made that edit. Second, that section was reverted because it was unsourced. You will need a source for that edit. 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 13:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Not only is it unsourced but it is also unencyclopedic. Lavalizard101 (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. What do you you mean"You will need a source for that edit. The Theme and Style addition is I wrote by myself. I do no need source for referenc. Thanks Jingfua (talk) 13:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

All content on Wikipedia needs to be verifiable. Please read the entry I linked above, which will explain it to you. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 13:51, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Original research is not allowed on wikipedia. Lavalizard101 (talk) 13:55, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

That article, even after reverting the unsourced additions, is still unsourced. The only citations are for two rows in the table of filmography. ~Anachronist (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

and those return 404 errors! So the article is effectively unsourced. Theroadislong (talk) 22:05, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

COI/NPOV – Where is the line?

I'm trying to understand who has a conflict of interest in a particular situation. I apologize in advance for keeping this vague and hypothetical, but I think this is not the place or time for specifics.

The subject is a for-profit company whose work is done almost entirely by volunteers. The company has a single owner, a small number of employees, many thousands of volunteers, and a Wikipedia page. The owner and employees clearly should disclose COI if they edit the article, but no Wikipedian has made such a disclosure.

My question concerns the volunteer hierarchy, and whether any unpaid editors fall under WP:COI. The organization has a class of Supermembers, chosen and empowered by company employees based on their adherence to company policies and priorities. Most of the company's employees are also designated Supermembers, but about 90% of the Supermembers are unpaid. Supermembers work closely with company employees and manage various departments manned by volunteers. Supermembers wield considerable power in the organization, including a non-employee committee that decides disciplinary matters up to and including permanent member bans. Supermembers retain their positions on condition of upholding and promoting company interests. Does the unpaid Supermember position constitute a close enough connection to create COI?

The company has a Supermember-managed Boosters department, functioning as the company's volunteer marketing arm. Boosters editing the company's article do so on behalf of the company, under the direction of one or more Supermembers (who might also be employees). Does non-Supermember Booster editing rise to the level of COI?

Thanks very much! MundoMango (talk) 16:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello MundoMango! I believe that does fall under COI. Even if it's not paid, the editors are being encouraged to do so by the company and might put in POV stuff. Asparagusus (interaction) 16:35, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Anyone associated with the company who edits about it on Wikipedia has a conflict of interest. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Welcome to the Teahouse, MundoMango. I didn't fully understand all the fine detail of the middle bit of your question, but it's totally irrelevant. Anyone who is involved in the company, whether as an employee, board member, CEO, or as a volunteer will ALL have a conflict of interest if they make edits to an article about that company or about that CEO (if they were to have a page of their own). Anyone employed by the company to edit that Wikipedia article would be WP:PAID, whether directly for doing the work, or indirectly through their salary, even if they edited without the boss knowing. They have an obligation to declare who is paying them, or they could be blocked from editing. "When in doubt, declare it out". I hope that helps. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @MundoMango, hmm, it's a little hard to answer in the hypothetical, but in the latter scenario of Boosters, I think that would clearly be a COI. Someone who's role it is to promote the company cannot edit the article without that role coming into conflict with their editing.

Regarding the other scenario, the only hard line we draw is paid editing, which is defined in the terms of service. For everything else, Wikipedia's normal approach of emphasizing the spirit over the letter of guidance comes into play. So it depends on a ton of factors. How much time does a supermember devote to their role/how core is it to their identity? (The more so, the more likely a COI.) Do they feel that, if there were negative info about the organization, they'd be able to add it objectively? (If not, definitely a COI.) If they do feel they can be objective, do they also feel that other editors who might find out about their role would have confidence that they'd be able to edit objectively? (The appearance of COI can be as bad as actual COI) Those questions can guide your thinking. If in doubt, err on the safe side and declare a COI. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all for the quick and thoughtful replies! The apparently irrelevant details about Supermembers reflects my poor understanding of the rules, hence the need to ask about it. Cheers! MundoMango (talk) 18:26, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

... when you said a company with a small number of employees, where most of the work is done by volunteers, I thought you meant Wikipedia for a moment! However, WMF is not a for-profit company, and has little influence over most of our "supermembers". Wikipedia does indeed have its own Wikipedia page, but I doubt anyone here has declared a COI in editing it, because it's blatantly obvious that anyone editing it is one of the volunteers who edit here, because they edited... I think?? My head is now going in circles, it is time to sleep. Elemimele (talk) 21:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Not Wikipedia! 😊 MundoMango (talk) 22:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

From AN/I: An IP user needs assistance to access the content of a deleted page

 Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents § Transfer_data_to_Russia

Hello Teahouse,

I was browsing AN/I and I came across a request given in the courtesy link above. This request is from an IP user 129.194.85.132. Their request is to access the text of a deleted page on enwiki: Шталаг XVIII-D.

I believe their request is best for the teahouse, so I am putting it here for them. Can some admin please assist them?

Cheers, -- TheLonelyPather (talk) 17:28, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Just as a point of information (because this seems to be an area that's unclear to many users, myself included), the preferred way to request administrator assistance is to add {{Admin help}} (t/l), followed by a description of your request, to your user talk page. See also WP:Requests for administrator attention. Fabrickator (talk) 18:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! This is super helpful. I learned something new today. TheLonelyPather (talk) 18:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - I've restored the article in the user space of the editor that created the article which hopefully resolves the request, since the editor was also asking about this, and have communicated this to both the IP and the editor. - Aoidh (talk) 12:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Deleting a User Page Marked Article

I once copied the Herman Armour Webster article to my user page. I no longer need it, and would like to have it deleted from my user page only. If I add the template {{db-userreq}} to my page the system thinks that I want to remove the article from Wikipedia which I do not. Can one of the administrrators help with this?Oldsilenus (talk) 18:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Photograph

Is there anywhere where I can find notable and good pictures (of people, places) that arent copyrighed or are in the public domain? 6thseries (talk) 19:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

The easiest way to obtain an image in terms of copyright is to take the image yourself. Is there something in particular you are seeking an image of? 331dot (talk) 19:23, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

If i get permission from a copyrighted source, how do i mention that i have permission to use it? 6thseries (talk) 21:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

You can't do it like that; Copyright law is very complicated. In order for a copyrighted image to be used on Wikipedia 'with permission', the copyright owner themself has to fill in a specific legal permission form and send it to Wikipedia: this requires them to explicitly allow any use of the picture by anyone in the world for any purpose (including commercial) so long as the copyright holder is acknowledged. Few copyright holders are willing to either (a) allow such unlimited use and/or (b) go through the required legal hoops. Note that for most photographs, paintings, etc, the copyright usually remains with the photographer/artist (or their heirs) for typically 95 years, regardless of who first published the photo, bought a print of it, bought the painting, etc. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 22:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

If you are looking for images you can use on Wikipedia, Creative Commons lists a number of sources with appropriate licenses. A rich source of UK places not listed there this is Geograph. Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:26, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been told to come here to find out how to phrase what the evidence shows ?

No, I don't understand it either Grabyrdy (talk) 20:10, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Tommaso Bai Pinging @Asparagusus, the AfC reviewer of the article. Your draft was declined due to its poor formatting and claims that were contradicted by the sources. There are also many peacock words in the text, which makes it seem like an essay.

For assistance with formatting, see WP:REF, and with phrasing your conclusions better, see WP:NPOV.

Regards, ContributeToTheWiki (talk • contribs) 20:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello again, Grabyrdy! I sent you here to ask about how to phrase statements in a neutral point of view and formatting. Thanks ContributeToTheWiki. Asparagusus (interaction) 20:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Grabyrdy This person may well meet our Notability Criteria but, right now, what you've presented us with is a complete mess. Your draft is not really very legible, and definitely not of a standard required for an encyclopaedia article. Please work on your draft and compare it to existing articles to see how they differ. Avoid your own personal opinions, and summarise only what other, Reliable Sources have stated about this person. You must use 'inline citations' to published sources which support each factual statement you add. Personal essays are not an acceptable format here, I'm afraid. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@Grabyrdy there is already an article on the subject here: Tommaso Bai. -- asilvering (talk) 00:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Given the existing article, consider abandoning your draft and contributing to the existing article. David notMD (talk) 02:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Wow ! Firstly, "peacock words" (how cute). None of the favourable opinions of the subject are my own - they reflect what the sources show were the opinions of the subject's contemporaries. Can't get more neutral than that, I think.

I accept there's lots of errors in formatting. I'm not very good at that, which is why I asked for help in the note I attached, which appears not to have been read. But I'm not going to waste my time correcting that when it seems you guys are incapable of distinguishing what are conclusions drawn from evidence cited and what are personal opinions. There are NO personal opinions in my entry. At all.

During my discussion with Asparagus I compared mine to the present entry on Bai, which is full of unsubstantiated claims and errors, based on sources over a century old and badly written. That's why I suggested a whole new article was the way to go. If you're happy with what's there, I'm clearly wasting my time here.

Over and out. Grabyrdy (talk) 10:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

The first issue you are having here is that "conclusions drawn from evidence" is not what Wikipedia is for. Wikipedia's aim is to summarise what existing scholarship says about a topic, not to draw novel conclusions, no matter how well supported. If there are reliable sources which support the claim, for instance, that Bai was born in or before 1638, the correct thing to do is edit the existing article Tommaso Bai, citing those sources. If the consensus of reliable sources is that Bai was born c.1650, then for Wikipedia's purposes Bai was born c.1650 until scholarship decides otherwise.

The second issue is that the articles for creation process is for articles which do not currently exist. As there is already an article on Bai, it doesn't matter how flawed it is, trying to create a new article is not the solution and is just going to cause more problems. You need to edit the existing article. If the article really is irredeemably flawed, that can include completely re-writing it from scratch, but you should still be working on the existing article Tommaso Bai. You shouldn't be submitting a draft article to AfC: creating a new article when there is an existing one is a content fork, which is discouraged. If you were to create a new separate article on Bai, it would either have to be deleted (there is a deletion criterion specifically for this), or redirected/merged to the existing article. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 13:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Best way to get edits done to a page about you yourself

Greetings - I am asking this question on behalf of Bunyan Bryant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunyan_Bryant). Neither of us know anything about editing Wikipedia pages, although I have done some reading about it. As I understand, neither Professor Bryant, as the subject, nor I, as someone who works for him, should edit his page. So, what is the best way to see that edits are done?

Professor Bryant published his memoir last year (https://www.rivertownsbooks.com/book-page/bryant-educator-and-activist), and that should be added to his page. There are also inaccuracies in the "Early Life" section (it's actually quite a muddle), so out of curiosity I clicked on the first reference and found that it links to the website of the New England Carnivorous Plant Society! LOL, why? And while reference 4 does say what it is cited for in Professor Bryant's wikipedia page, it is not really accurate. After obtaining his Ph.D. in Education, he was planning on becoming an educational consultant when he was recruited by the School of Natural Resources to start the Environmental Advocacy Program. While he was committed to and active in civil rights actions, it is misleading to say "his goal was to focus on civil rights." And yes, he did initially think he would stay for only a year or so at SEAS, but he ended up spending his entire 40-year academic career there. The description of his involvement with the Black Action Movement needs to be cleaned up, too. For one thing, his housing case (in 1965, well before he joined SEAS) was pursued in collaboration with CORE, not BAM.

Anyway, what is your advice for getting a listing for his memoir added and correcting inaccuracies on the page? Thank you for your help! Wikipedia is a frequent resource for me, and I appreciate the volunteerism that fuels it. - Janet Max (JEMMwiki) JEMMwiki (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, JEMMwiki. Thanks for asking about this and being clear about your connection to Bryant. The guidance you're looking for is available at Wikipedia:Simple conflict of interest edit request. You may also like to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#Writing about yourself, family, friends. The New England Carnivorous Plant Society issue appears to be because the link in that reference now redirects to the NECPS website - presumably it didn't when it was first added! I'll try to fix that shortly. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:33, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I tried to replace the link for that reference with one to the Internet Archive, but it appears that the original wasn't archived. I've marked the link as dead for now. Ideally, a replacement reference would be found. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@JEMMwiki The reference to a pdf about him being childless by choice is also a dead link. Maybe the Wayback Machine can supply a live reference you could use. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

@JEMMwiki, if you or Bryant can show editors where to find this information (or... the correct information) online currently, that would be a big help! -- asilvering (talk) 22:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

A page that should have been deleted already

Alaa Sarhan exists as an article but when I look at the talk page it says it was deleted on July 23, 2023. So was it created again? Is this allowed? 135.180.146.84 (talk) 23:21, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

No, not usually. Thanks for pointing this out. -- asilvering (talk) 00:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Terminology question: adopted step-sister or adopted sister?

This may be a dumb question, but I want to improve this article so I'm being something of a pedant.

There's a specific article about a crime case involving an incident where a man murdered his younger sister due to her race. I'm curious as how to refer to their relationship: early press refers to her as being his adopted step-sister while later more comprehensive coverage simply refers to her as his sister/adopted sister. They were raised together the majority of their lives by the same parents (as the murderer's biological mother killed herself he was raised by his sister's adopted mother, and his biological father raised them both. adopted half step-siblings? bit of a mouthful). Since the sister's identity is relevant to the crime (she was Asian, her brother was a Neo-Nazi) I feel like being accurate to the specifics of their relationship is important. Which one should I use? The article as is uses adopted step-sister (though the one in the native language of the country the crime occurred in uses adopted sister). PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:53, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Adopted step-sister makes it clearer what the relationship is in English. How other languages refer to it, especially if less precise, isn't relevant. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough on that logic. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

The following might help. A man (call him Alfie) has a daughter (Betty). Alfie becomes divorced or widowed, and then marries Caroline. She already has a daughter, Dolly. Betty and Dolly are then step-sisters. Alfie and Caroline then have a daughter together, Erica. So now Erica is a half-sister to each of Betty and Dolly. Not wishing to stop at three, Alfie and Caroline now go through a legal process of adopting Fiona. Fiona then becomes the adopted sister of each of the other three. (Are you following this so far?)

It's also possible that Alfie will legally adopt Dolly, or that Caroline will legally adopt Betty. In that case, you might conceivably refer to Betty and Dolly has adopted step-sisters, but that would be unusual terminology (at least, in English). The fact of the adoption won't change their status as step-sisters.

To summarise: half-siblings have one biological parent in common; step-siblings have no biological parents in common; adopted siblings have no biological parents in common but have been the subject of a legal process.

Finally, the fact that "they were raised together the majority of their lives by the same parents" has nothing to do with it. Mike Marchmont (talk) 13:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Table of Contents for Archived Sandbox Pages

I archived my page named sandboxUser:Oldsilenus/sandbox today using the copy and paste method. I did not copy the code at the top of the page which I thought generated the Table of Contents showing Archived pages (There was a prior Archive 1 page). I can search and see the Archived Sandbox 2 page listed but no TOC was generated & the Archived Sandbox page 1 seems to be lost (This is not a big deal). How do I get a TOC on sandbox showing archived pages . Please note that there is a my sandbox page that is totally unnecessary and could be deleted.Oldsilenus (talk) 01:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I answered on your talk page. Let's continue there. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Who decides the candidates for Arbitration Committee elections?

I know that I receive an invitation to vote on who becomes a part of wp:Arbcom every year. I was invited last year, but I did not cast a vote because I had no idea what arbcom even was. Though now I know more about Wikipedia's inner workings, I am still unsure how candidates that appear on the poll are chosen in the first place. Is there are a project page where editors self-nominate? I intend to vote this year so any responses will be appreciated! Ca ^{talk to me!} 02:52, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Nominations are made by interested editors themselves, however an editor who is not an administrator has never won the election. The project page will be made in due time. Hope this helps, NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 02:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ca to expand, there's a specific time period for self-nominations, which will come after a community discussion on rules for the election, and then choosing the election commissars. Last year, it was the 13th-22nd November. Nosebagbear (talk) 09:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Player Profiles For NBA Players.

Can someone make a Player Profile Heading for each of these NBA Players? Allen Iverson Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving JwillWiki454 (talk) 02:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

JwillWiki454, you sound like you may be just the person to make these edits. If you're not feeling comfortable editing the article directly you can start the work in a sandbox page. If you decide to tackle this but feel confused at any point feel free to {{ping}} me or post on my talk page. Good luck, Rjjiii (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Why hardblock proxies

I'm a bit confused. It is not hard for admins to deal with disruption when a registered user edits through a proxy. By creating an account, users that have a valid need of using proxies can request for unblock more conveniently. IntegerSequences (talk | contribs) 02:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Proxies are often hard blocked because long-term abusers and vandals have been using proxies to evade blocks in the past and it would simply cause too much disruption when these proxies are unblocked due to the risk of abuse by vandals. — Prodraxis {talk • contribs} (she/her) 11:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

It is hard to deal with disruption from hundreds of sockpuppet accounts on proxies. Hard may not be the right word, but it is usually disruptive. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 12:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Articles excessively exaggerates the importance of fringe group

The articles on the "World constitutional convention" and "Provisional World Parliment" clearly exaggerates and treats uncritically a fringe group with no public profile and significance, to the point that reading it gives one the impression that it's a serious and important with statements like "The convention and its subsequent developments played a vital role in advancing global governance and world peace." which is just nonsense.

I have no idea how to get someone with authority to either remove the pages or at the very least heavily edit them so it's apparent that this a fringe group of no consequence. 46.162.125.17 (talk) 05:14, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

For each article, go to the foot of its talk page and make the suggestion there. Or, as there are two articles, choose the most pertinent of the "WikiProjects" whose relevance to the articles is indicated by templates at the top of the articles' talk pages, and comment on that WikiProject's talk page. Be sure to identify the articles precisely (neither World constitutional convention nor Provisional World Parliment exists) and not to encourage discussion on more than one talk page at any one time: simultaneous discussions of the same matter at different places are a waste of participants' time and likely to put those participants in a bad mood. -- Hoary (talk) 05:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: World Constitutional Convention
 Courtesy link: Provisional World Parliament
CiaPan (talk) 06:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Concentrating on the Provisional World Parliament, IP editor, you are quite right about the nonsense statement of playing "a vital role in ... world peace"; you don't need to ask anyone, you can simply delete this sentence as it's not supported by any source and is genuinely nonsense. I've left it for the moment, so other editors can see the true state of that article.

The difficulty with articles about fringe groups is that we can't just describe them as an irrelevant fringe unless some serious source has written about them, describing them as an irrelevant fringe, and serious sources rarely write about fringes unless they've become relevant for some reason. On the other hand, a tremendous amount of sourcing on the provisional world parliament article is inappropriate; the Times of India ref is sponsored (paid-for) content, some of the sources are defunct blogs and stuff from the organisation itself, there's really very little solid stuff there. This is an article that requires a considerable re-think, possibly even complete deletion and start again. Elemimele (talk) 07:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Probably the World Constitution Coordinating Committee article could be verified, too. --CiaPan (talk) 08:14, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I've worked on toning down the language a bit for some of the articles here. — Prodraxis {talk • contribs} (she/her) 11:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Making a page about Sid Bishop, Deviants guitarist/songwriter and book author (name used Ian C Bishop

Can I make a page about him? 2601:1C2:1800:B540:C9C7:7F3D:CE17:ECC1 (talk) 07:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP Editor, welcome to the Teahouse!

Articles about musicians need to follow the strict Wikipedia:Notability (music) requirements. In essence you need to find at a minimum of three sources that are independent of Sid (so not a PR interview), are from a reputable place (such as well known newspaper), and discuss Sid in detail or provide significant coverage.

I'd recommend going via the Wikipedia:Articles for creation process which will allow your article to be reviewed by an experienced editor, though note there is currently a wait list of 4 months due to a backlog.

Let us know if you have any questions! Qcne (talk) 08:45, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually, while there are thousands of AfC drafts waiting for a reviewer, the system is not a queue. Reviewers select which they want to review. Thus, could be days, weeks, or sadly months for a review. David notMD (talk) 09:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Article creation and publishing

i am trying to find a professional publisher to publish my articles on wikipedia Jojoarticles (talk) 07:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Jojoarticles, and welcome to the Teahouse.

Quite simply, DO NOT DO THIS.

An article about your company, whoever creates it, will not belong to you, will not be controlled by you, and will not necessarily say what you want it to say. Almost anybody in the world will be able to edit it, except you and your agents, who are permitted only to request changes

Such an article will be based almost entirely on what people with no connection to you have chosen to publish about your company, not on what you or your associates say or want to say. Promotion of any kind is forbidden.

It follows that if there has been little or no such independent material published about your company, there is absolutely nothing that can go in an article (the Wikipedia jargon for this is that the company is not notable) and no article will be accepted.

Many of the organizations offering to edit Wikipedia for pay are scammers. If they are honest, they will tell you up front that they cannot guarantee that an article on you will be accepted or that it will say what you would like it to say. Why would you choose to pay anybody in those circumstances?

Please see An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing, When your boss tells you to edit Wikipedia, and WP:SCAM. ColinFine (talk) 10:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, we are trying to contact the publisher Star Mississippi, we require services for publishing an article, our mother company Stillfront lead us to teahouse to acquire more information. please let us know as soon as possible, thank you much appreciated. Jojoarticles (talk) 07:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. You can contact a user directly via their user talk page, such as User talk:Star Mississippi. However, you will first need to declare as a paid editor; please see the information I have just placed on your user talk page. 331dot (talk) 08:12, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Review Process

I have two queries:

1. I have created a document in my sandbox, and by default it has this title: "User:EtherealOwl/sandbox". This is not an appropriate title for my document. How to update it?
2. After I submit the draft for review, how long will it take?

EtherealOwl (talk) 07:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I will shortly move your sandbox contents to Draft space with a more appropriate title(the exact title is not important until the draft is accepted and placed in the encyclopedia). You will then just need to click the Submit button on the screen- however, your draft is completely unsourced and would be declined quickly. Any article about this person needs to summarize what independent reliable sources say about them, and all substantive facts about a living person must be sourced per the Biographies of Living Persons policy. For more information about referencing, see Referencing for Beginners. 331dot (talk) 08:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I have moved it to Draft:Mohsin Qureshi. As for a timeframe, there is currently a large backlog of drafts awaiting review, well over 4,000. The expected timeframe is several months, though it depends on how quickly a volunteer reviewer chooses to review it. It could theoretically occur in the five minutes after you submit it, but that is not very likely. 331dot (talk) 08:07, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Totally unsourced so pretty easy to decline within minutes. Theroadislong (talk) 08:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

For a biography of a living person, all factual statements need to be verified by references. See above for useful links. I recommend creating refs in your Sandbox, and only when formatted correctly copy/pasting into the draft. David notMD (talk) 09:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

In addition, I suggest reading WP:BACKWARD and WP:42. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Making a different image the "hover-over" image?

Hi! Is it possible to choose a different image than the first one in an article as the one that appears when you hover over the Wiki link.

Thanks, Madeleinehales (talk) 09:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC) :)

@Madeleinehales Do you mean what we call the WP:LEADIMAGE, top right image at for example articles like Daniel Craig? Those can be changed, but it's not a personal setting, if that's what you meant. It is possible to change the image by changing the article, but there are some rather strict rules involved. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean the specific case when there's a template in the lead, but the template does not contain a good photograph for the article. For example, for the COLLAPS article I have put the template further down because if I use it at the top, it will set the lead photo to the ISOLDE logo. Is there a way to avoid this?

Madeleinehales (talk) 11:42, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Madeleinehales: There is a little-used method, and I'm just going to mention it so you can check the documentation and consider making a request as appropriate: MediaWiki:Pageimages-denylist. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 12:21, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I will look into it :)

Madeleinehales (talk) 12:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Matthew Goodwin

Someone anonymous seem to be attempting censorship of use of sources that are critical of Matthew Goodwin from the article about him. Could an experienced editor investigate? 147.188.240.134 (talk) 10:28, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Anonymous person, I'm an experienced editor, but the use of sources that's being censored or otherwise snipped by another anonymous person seems unusually verbose, and more or less based on some Twitter spat. Perhaps you could produce a more concise version based on something more substantial than "social media". Incidentally, I hope that the editing spat doesn't intensify; but if it does, expect semi-protection: No edits by any anonymous person. -- Hoary (talk) 10:42, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes it's a Twitter spat but that Twitter spat has been reported on by reliable sources that aren't social media. 147.188.240.134 (talk) 10:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Just so I know, can you please post the "reliable sources" you're speaking of? — Prodraxis {talk • contribs} (she/her) 11:22, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, here they are: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/white-is-new-black-populism-and-academic-alt-right/, https://leftfootforward.org/2023/07/matt-goodwin-ridiculed-over-bizarre-claim-in-new-video/, https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=isbn:9781138591677, https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/londoners-diary-professors-robert-ford-matthew-goodwin-academic-freedom-b960453.html. 147.188.240.134 (talk) 11:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Material from the article introduction was also removed ("Goodwin's early work was well received but his most recent book, Values, Voice and Virtue, has attracted criticism that he has transformed from being an analyst of populism into a right-wing populist himself."), which was based on a large number of reviews referenced in the Matthew_Goodwin#Values,_Voice_and_Virtue_(2023) section, including newspaper sources. 147.188.240.134 (talk) 11:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Article Submission

I've authored an article about Wisconsin's inaugural driving school, emphasizing its historical importance. After receiving a deletion notification, I've submitted a 'contested deletion' response. I'd appreciate feedback on both the article and my response.

If there are areas of improvement or specific concerns, guidance would be invaluable.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

__________________________________________________

The Article: (with minor revisions to align with Wikipedia standards)

Arcade Drivers School: Historical Overview

Beginnings and Initial Challenges Arcade Drivers School was established in 1950, following the suspension of operations at Art-Rite Drivers School, which had been founded in 1947 by Stanley Artrite. Art-Rite is documented as one of the earliest driving schools in Wisconsin, as evidenced by its listing in the 1947 Yellow Pages.

In 1950, operational challenges arose for Art-Rite when Artrite faced legal issues. The school's operations were temporarily halted during this period.

Transition to Arcade Drivers School

William McCluskey, who had prior associations with Art-Rite, took over the institution during its period of suspension. He renamed it to Arcade Drivers School, with the name reflecting its location in Milwaukee's Plankinton Arcade Building. McCluskey faced challenges in reaching out to former Art-Rite customers due to limited access to their contact information.

Evolution of Arcade Drivers School

Under McCluskey's direction, the school emphasized quality in driver education. This was reflected in the training standards and the condition of the training vehicles. The school's growth led to an increase in trained instructors, some of whom later started their own driving schools. The school's consistent advertisements in the Milwaukee Journal over several decades highlighted its presence in the local community.

Advertising Trends in Driver Education

The latter half of the 20th century saw driving schools, including Arcade, engage in advertising campaigns, particularly in the Yellow Pages. Arcade's rebranding strategy during this period influenced naming trends among competitors.

Collaborations and Partnerships

Arcade collaborated with Sears, leading to the introduction of 'Sears Driving School' in Wisconsin.

Current Status

Arcade Drivers School has remained operational over the decades, marking its presence in Wisconsin's driver education sector. Other schools, such as 'Easy Method Driving School' and 'North Shore Driving School', have also been operational for several decades.

_________________________________________________

My Contested Response to the Article Marked for Deletion:

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because...

(I am working on an article about Arcade Drivers School, Wisconsin's first and longest-standing driving school. This institution has been operational for over 70 years and has indirectly influenced the structure and standards of nearly every driving school established in the state since.

Historical Significance: Arcade Drivers School is not just a commercial entity; it represents a significant part of Wisconsin's educational history. As the state's first driving school, it has set industry standards for over seven decades.

Neutrality: I am neither an employee nor a stakeholder in Arcade Drivers School. My interest in this topic stems from my professional background in the driver education industry from 1987 to 2005. As a former owner of Assurance Driving School, a competitor of Arcade, I have firsthand knowledge of the industry's evolution and Arcade's pivotal role in shaping it.

Notability: Many current driving schools in Wisconsin indirectly trace their origins and methodologies back to Arcade. This institution's resilience, despite the rise and fall of numerous competitors, underscores its significance in the industry.

Personal Experience: While I was trained by Arcade in 1986 and later established my own driving school, I've observed many others follow a similar path. Despite training its competition, Arcade has remained a stalwart in the industry, a testament to its foundational role in Wisconsin driver education.

Objective Recognition: My intention is not to promote Arcade but to acknowledge its historical and ongoing impact on driver education in Wisconsin. Its enduring presence and influence on multiple generations of driving schools make it a notable subject for an encyclopedic entry.

I am committed to adhering to Wikipedia's guidelines and ensuring that the article is factual, neutral, and verifiable.

I appreciate your consideration and am open to feedback to improve the article further.)

--Dwappes (talk) 03:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC) Dwappes (talk) 12:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Dwappes, welcome to the Teahouse!

Unfortunately your draft was deleted, so I cannot check, but did you provide any sources for your article? It looks like you did not as your text above has no in-line citations.

Every fact and statement in your article needs to be backed up by independent and reliable sources. This is so anyone can verify that the statements in your article are accurate and to ensure that your topic is notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. If you do not add any sources then I am afraid your article will never be accepted onto Wikipedia.

It might be worth reading Wikipedia:Your first article which gives you the dos and don'ts of creating an article, plus the Wikipedia:Citing sources guide that explains how to cite sources.

The easiest way to forward is to find reliable, independent, secondary sources that cover the driving school in detail, and then summarise them in your own words. That should make up the content of your article draft. Note that the sources must be:

- Reliable: Your article should rely on strong, reliable sources that are published by reputable institutions. Primary sources can be used for basic facts (such as a date of birth), but they should be supplemented with strong secondary sources that offer analysis or interpretation.

- Independent: Your sources should be independent of the subject, for example not self-published or from the subject's own website.

- Show significant coverage: Your subject should be discussed in detail in the sources you find. The sources should provide in-depth information or analysis about the subject, going beyond basic facts or promotional material.

- From multiple places: You should find at least three separate reliable, independent, secondary sources that discuss your subject.

- Not original research: Wikipedia articles should summarise existing knowledge about a subject, not present new research. This means you should avoid drawing your own conclusions or analyses from the sources. Stick to summarising what the sources say in a neutral tone. You also can't use your own personal experience.

You should also check the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) criteria which explains what the threshold that organisations and companies must pass in order to have a Wikipedia article. If the driving school cannot pass the threshold set out in that link, then I am afraid it cannot have an article at this time.

Let me know if that helps, and if you have any questions. Qcne (talk) 12:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. The article was deleted before I could add newspaper articles that supported my statements. In fact, the article was deleted while I was writing it with an explanation that it was 'promotional'. Arcade Drivers School was the first driving school ever established in Wisconsin and their trainees went off to establish their own driving schools. Arcade is basically the 'root' of the driver education industry in Wisconsin. I can put all the facts and supporting documents together, but not if the article keeps getting deleted while being drafted. So, what do I do? Dwappes (talk) 13:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry your article was deleted mid-editing, that sounds frustrating. You can ask an administrator to recover the draft at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion.

You can then either work on your article in your sandbox, which is a testing space. Or you can work on your article in the draftspace, which is what you did originally, and not submit it for review until you have finished with it. I wonder if you accidentally submitted it for review, and then it was deleted as it appeared to the reviewer that it was a finished draft? I'm courtesy pinging the deleting administrator who can hopefully clarify @Whpq.

If you think you have the right sort of sources to back up all your statements, and you think the driving school passes the notability threshold mentioned above, and you're careful to write the article in a dispassionate, neutral, encyclopaedic way: then you should be okay. Qcne (talk) 13:11, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Do you know how I would upload or use information from a .pdf copy of a newspaper clipping as a citation from 1947 that has a copyright? The clipping is the only evidence that verifies my assertions in the article. Dwappes (talk) 16:47, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Your sources don't have to be accessible online. You can either use the Visual Editor's citation tool, or in the Source Editor use the Cite news template. If you still wanted to upload the clipping, I would suggest using [6]https://archive.org/.

However I will say that we usually need a minimum of three sources for an article. You're fine to cite a single source for a single statement, but if your article only relies on only a single source throughout (the newspaper clipping) then it likely will not be accepted. Qcne (talk) 16:52, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Dwappes,

I understand it is frustrating to have your efforts at an article deleted. The reason it was deleted was because the tone of the article was promotional with phrases like " impeccable condition of training vehicles" and "Arcade's innovative spirit extended beyond advertising". You need to avoid advertising like phrases, or if they really are true, then they need to be backed up by reliable sources. I will restore the draft for you, but you will need to address the tone of the article. -- Whpq (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Getting a new library database included on the Book sources page?

There is no search option for books in Maine, USA on the Book Sources page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=Special%3ABookSources%3Fuselang%3Dqqx#Find_on_Wikipedia. Not sure who to ask, but can we change this? Pwilliams47 (talk) 13:12, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Editing A Description

Hello. I just received a message that my recent edit was not constructive. The addition to the post was 100% accurate and provided more info than the original. How do I know what was not constructive? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Visentin BDPI (talk) 15:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

This edit [7]? Basically you were writing an unsourced ad. Use social media for that, it's not what Wikipedia is for. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

As added to your Talk page, you deleted referenced content and added unreferenced, not neutral-point-of-view content, with hyperlinks, which are not allowed. David notMD (talk) 17:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Bade Miyan Chote Miyan 2023

help me to improve and publish this article Incognitopublisher (talk) 16:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Incognitopublisher. For some reason you removed the reviewer's reason from the decline notice. Please do not do that. I have re-added it.

In any case, your article has been submitted for review so you now have to wait for it to be reviewed by a volunteer: this may take up to four months. Qcne (talk) 16:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

thank you Incognitopublisher (talk) 16:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Incognitopublisher The decline reason for Draft:Bade Miyan Chote Miyan 2023 was WP:TOOSOON, meaning the reviewer is of the opinion tha the movie does not warrant an article until after it is in theaters (2024) and published reviews are available as references. Expect the resubmittal to be declined for the same reasons. In the meantime you can add a Plot section. David notMD (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

draft and wikidata

I just created a new page, I mean the draft of the page.

I know that, for wikipedia pages in several langages, there is one wikidata page.

The wikidata page for my draft doesn't exist because there is, currently, no page on any wikipedia.

So my question is : should I create the wikidata page, now even if it is a draft on wikipedia, or later when the draft will be validated, or will the wikidata page be created automatically ? Yunan973 (talk) 16:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

What happened to the "Skip to bottom" button?

Up to a couple of days ago, there was a button at the top of the Teashop page, labelled something like "Skip to bottom". I don't recall the exact wording, but - as the name suggests - it took you straight to the most recent topic on the page. As a frequent Teashop lurker, I found this useful.

But the button seems to have disappeared. Now, this is not in any way a serious problem, so please don't spend any time in replying. It's just that I am curious as to why a moderately useful feature was removed. Or am I simply looking in the wrong place? Mike Marchmont (talk) 16:28, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I see little up and down arrows in the bottom right corner of my browser which skips to top or bottom- do they appear for you? I'm on the new theme. Qcne (talk) 16:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mike Marchmont Yes, it was labelled as "To read the newest questions, skip to bottom" as seen in this old revision of the header prior to changes made today for unknown reasons. My assumption is that the up and down arrows button already does the same thing hence no point repeating. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

to reinstate the blocked account under user:AmeTefTes

Dear sirs, i erroneously reverted my discussion on the theory of profit commission agent banking system .so can you unblock my accoutnt under user name:AmeTefTes and let me continue my discussion. thanks in advance for your cooperation. Ameha Tefera(DBL) 196.189.147.150 (talk) 16:41, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Ameha,

Wikipedia, including your User Page, is not to be used as a webhost to post your own original research or theories. That is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia. Qcne (talk) 16:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

What you created at User:AmeTefTes was Speedy Deleted back in August 2022, but there is no evidence that this account was blocked. You should be able to log into that account, and if you wish, create a draft via WP:YFA on a topic of your choice. The SD was because you were creating article-like content on your User page. See WP:UP for what does and does not go on a User page. David notMD (talk) 17:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have 'discussions', nor does it have original research. It has articles with content verified by reliable source published references. David notMD (talk) 17:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Found an article that looks quite promotional.

This article looks suspiciously promotional... Aspect Ventures 2607:FB91:882F:9554:AD4:1551:80E9:65EF (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor.

You've marked this for speedy deletion a few times, but speedy deletion has been declined three times. Try requesting a deletion via WP:PROD or WP:AFD instead.

I don't think the article reads as particularly promotional, but I think it could probably be merged into the founder's articles instead. Qcne (talk) 17:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Seeking Feedback for Article

Hello,

I am a long time user but am very new to editing Wikipedia. I am located somewhat near the Sharpner's Pond Anti-Ballistic Missile Site and decided to effectively fully rewrite the article for the location as it was a stub filled with inaccurate information and dead links. I also did some photography at the site to add to the article. I am pleased with the article but would love some feedback. I am new to editing and still a novice as to using the wiki editor.

Feel free to edit the page or leave me some feedback! Explore9021 (talk) 17:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Can you please check if this wiki page is okay, looking for some feedback?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pjanvi1008/sandbox Pjanvi1008 (talk) 18:07, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Defining a child actor on their article as a "child actor"

I have seen some articles about 'child' or 'teen' actors defining them as such, e.g.

John Doe (born Month X, XXXX) is an American teen actor.

I don't think we should do that as we don't do it with adult notable people, including actors, but maybe I am wrong and it is allowed.

So, is it allowed or not?

This is a question asked out of curiosity for me to have as Wikipedia-oriented knowledge. GrafiXal (talk) 20:51, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@GrafiXal Welcome to the TeaHouse. I understand where you are coming from I do not know enough to properly answer this question but in my opinion I dont think it really matters. @Illusion Flame @Grumpylawnchair Do any of you have an answer that might help. Shadow345110 (talk) 21:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Wrong link

Hi,

An entry on Wikipedia links to the wrong bio (on another Wiki page).

How can I fix this?

Thank you Baribun (talk) 21:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruth+handler+date+of+birth&rlz=1CAEZTK_enNZ1044&oq=ruth+handler+date+of+birth&aqs=chrome..69i57.8116j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&ssui=on

ruth handler 122.56.74.25 (talk) 21:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)