Talk:Palestinian genocide accusation: Difference between revisions
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I wonder how the community views the issue. BTW, I've exhausted my revert quota for today. — [[User:Kashmiri|<span style="color:#30c;font:italic bold 1em 'Candara';text-shadow:#aaf 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">kashmīrī</span>]] [[User talk:Kashmiri|<sup style="color:#80f;font-family:'Candara';">TALK</sup>]] 21:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC) |
I wonder how the community views the issue. BTW, I've exhausted my revert quota for today. — [[User:Kashmiri|<span style="color:#30c;font:italic bold 1em 'Candara';text-shadow:#aaf 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em;">kashmīrī</span>]] [[User talk:Kashmiri|<sup style="color:#80f;font-family:'Candara';">TALK</sup>]] 21:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC) |
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: What a bunch of blatant lies. Total mischaracterization of an image, it's not from London, there is nothing in the source that says this is a protest by jews. Also, you claim that I accused someone of being a Hamas supporter simply because I added a link to an article about decades of Palestinian claims against Israel? |
: What a bunch of blatant lies. Total mischaracterization of an image, it's not from London, there is nothing in the source that says this is a protest by jews. Also, you claim that I accused someone of being a Hamas supporter simply because I added a link to an article about decades of Palestinian claims against Israel? Kashmiri, you seem to be blatantly pushing your pro-Palestinian bias. Please refrain from editing pages related to this topic.[[User:Monopoly31121993(2)|Monopoly31121993(2)]] ([[User talk:Monopoly31121993(2)|talk]]) 08:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC) |
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:: And btw, the image that you claim (inaccurately) shows Jews in London was replaced with a relevant image of a protester claiming "genocide" was being carried out in Palestine on Oct. 9th immediately after the war began which clearly shows that the "genocide" accusation has been around even before the Israeli invasion. The explanation that I provided was that the replacement image was not relevant to section that it had been posted in previously but was relevant to the section where I had moved it. There was however only space for one image in that section.[[User:Monopoly31121993(2)|Monopoly31121993(2)]] ([[User talk:Monopoly31121993(2)|talk]]) 08:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC) |
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Kashmiri, you seem to be blatantly pushing your pro-Palestinian bias. Please refrain from editing pages related to this topic.[[User:Monopoly31121993(2)|Monopoly31121993(2)]] ([[User talk:Monopoly31121993(2)|talk]]) 08:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC) |
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Combatting recency bias
As Super Dromaeosaurus highlights in a previous discussion on this talk page there is a prominent recency bias in the article due to the ongoing 2023 Israel-Hamas War and this bringing new prominence to the discussion of genocide of the Palestinians.
I've gone through some searches to pull the following news and opinion articles which comment on a genocide of the Palestinians (supportive of the allegation or against it) that have been published prior to 2023.
- 2000–2010
- Pappé, Illan (11 January 2007). "Palestine 2007: Genocide in Gaza, Ethnic Cleansing in the West Bank". Electronic Intifada.
Pappé, Illan (28 January 2008). "Genocide in Gaza, Ethnic Cleansing in the West Bank". The Indypendent."World stands united against 'genocide' in Gaza". Al Arabiya. 28 December 2008."Australian demonstrations show solidarity with Palestinian people". World Socialist Web Site. 5 January 2009."Caracas expels Israeli ambassador". France 24. Agence France-Press. 7 January 2009.Boyle, Francis A. (28 December 2009). "International Law And Israel's War On Gaza". Countercurrents.org.
- 2010–2015
- Steinberg, Michele (3 February 2010). "Prof. Francis Boyle: Israel Is Committing Genocide". Scoop.
- Lynfield, Ben (23 February 2010). "Israel 'stole Palestinian heritage'". The Independent.
- King, Tim; Izzat, Nahida (30 April 2010). "Southern Poverty Law Center, Palestine, and the Definition of Genocide". Salem-News.com.
Al-Jaza'iri, Isa (2 June 2010). "Flotilla massacre exposes criminal blockade of Gaza". In Defence of Marxism.- "Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission: Israel Guilty of Genocide". Scoop. 27 November 2013.
- Arman, Abukar (27 July 2014). "On Gaza, genocide, and impunity". Al Jazeera.
- Fisher, Max (1 August 2014). "Here's the full text of the deleted Times of Israel post backing genocide in Gaza". Vox.
- Armstrong, Mick (6 August 2014). "What is happening in Palestine is genocide". Red Flag.
- Davis, Charles (13 August 2014). "Israel's War on Palestine: It's Bad, but Is It 'Genocide'?". Vice.
- Boren, Zachary Davies (25 August 2014). "Holocaust survivors and their descendants accuse Israel of 'genocide'". The Independent.
- "Palestinian leader accuses Israel of 'genocide' at UN". BBC News. 27 September 2014.
- Falk, Richard (6 October 2014). "Is Israel Guilty of Genocide in Its Assault on Gaza?". The Nation.
- 2015–2020
- Çelik, Mehmet (8 May 2015). "Israeli MP Ayelet Shaked who called for genocide of Palestinians named Justice Minister". Daily Sabah.
- Electronic Intifada (3 May 2016). "Palestinians call for boycott of genocide conference in Jerusalem". Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions.
- Burston, Bradley (9 August 2016). "What We Talk About, When We Talk About Israel and Genocide". Haaretz.
- Nussbaum Cohen, Debra (10 August 2016). "The Jewish Activist Behind the Black Lives Matter Platform Calling Israel's Treatment of Palestinians 'Genocide'". Haaretz.
- Sidahmed, Mazin (11 August 2016). "Critics denounce Black Lives Matter platform accusing Israel of 'genocide'". The Guardian.
- Azzam, Zeina (15 August 2016). "The Movement for Black Lives, the Palestinian Struggle, and a Creeping Genocide". Common Dreams.
- Cohen, Stanley L. (29 December 2016). "Israel's never-ending crimes: It's not just settlements". Al Jazeera.
- Litvin, Yoav (6 January 2017). "The mainstreaming of Palestinian genocide". Mondoweiss.
- "The Nakba did not start or end in 1948". Al Jazeera. 23 May 2017.
- Blatman, Daniel (23 May 2017). "The Israeli Lawmaker Heralding Genocide Against Palestinians". Haaretz.
- Mohamad, Nabil (16 September 2017). "Remembering the Sabra and Shatila massacre 35 years on". Al Jazeera.
- Barrett, Kevin (1 November 2017). "Balfour: 100 years of deception, genocide and denial". Crescent International.
- Aydogan, Merve (1 November 2017). "Balfour document led to 'century of genocide': Diplomat". Anadolu Agency.
- "Israeli forces kill dozens of Palestinians in Gaza 'massacre'". Al Jazeera. 14 May 2018.
- Dabashi, Hamid (22 May 2018). "Palestine after the May 14 massacre". Al Jazeera.
- Elia, Nada (18 September 2018). "Israel's siege of Gaza: When does it become a genocide?". Middle East Eye.
- Litvin, Yoav (15 February 2019). "All Zionist roads lead to genocide". Al Jazeera.
- Wintour, Patrick (2 May 2019). "Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide' in Middle East – report". The Guardian.
- "Potential US presidential candidate accuses 'racist' Israel of committing 'genocide'". Middle East Monitor. 21 May 2019.
- Fisk, Robert (12 December 2019). "Sabra and Chatila taught me all massacres become 'alleged massacres' if we don't pay attention". The Independent.
- 2020–2023
- Ridley, Yvonne (14 April 2020). "We must never forget Israel's massacre in Jenin". Middle East Monitor.
- Shakra, Eyad Abu (18 April 2020). "The Sabra and Shatila massacre". Arab News.
- Ali, Taj (11 April 2023). "British Unions Should Stand in Solidarity with Palestinian Workers". Jacobin.
I plan to gather a better list of academic pieces that have currently not been used in the article over the next week. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 23:48, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
- As stated here is a list of academic articles, books, and such that we don't use in the article, most of which occur from before the Israel-Hamas war.
- Academic sources
- 1950–2000
- Rouleau, Eric (January 1975). "The Palestinian Quest". Foreign Affairs. 53 (2): 264–283. doi:10.2307/20039507. JSTOR 20039507.
- Sayigh, Rosemary (October 1983). "Women in Struggle: Palestine". Third World Quarterly. 5 (4). Taylor & Francis: 880–886. doi:10.1080/01436598308419739. JSTOR 3990828.
Said, Edward W. (1984). "Permission to Narrate". Journal of Palestine Studies. 13 (3). Taylor & Francis: 27–48. doi:10.2307/2536688. JSTOR 2536688.- Linn, Ruth (1999). "In the name of the Holocaust: Fears and hopes among Israeli soldiers and Palestinians". Journal of Genocide Research. 1 (3): 439–453. doi:10.1080/14623529908413971.
- 2000–2010
- Ron, James (2000). "Savage Restraint: Israel, Palestine and the Dialectics of Legal Repression". Social Problems. 47 (4): 445–472. ISSN 0037-7791.
- Staub, Ervin; Bar-Tal, Daniel (2003). "Genocide, mass killing and intractable conflict: Roots, evolution, prevention and reconciliation". In Sears, D. O.; Huddy, L.; Jervis, R. (eds.). Oxford handbook of political psychology. Oxford University Press. pp. 710–751. ISBN 978-0199760107.
- Stohlman, Nancy; Aladin, Laurieann (2003). Live From Palestine: International and Palestinian Direct Action Against the Israeli Occupation. South End Press. ISBN 978-0896086951.
- Beinin, Joel (2003). "Is Terrorism a Useful Term in Understanding the Middle East and the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict?". Radical History Review. 2003 (85): 12–23. doi:10.1215/01636545-2003-85-12.
- Litvak, Meir; Webman, Esther. "Perceptions of the Holocaust in Palestinian Public Discourse" (PDF). Israel Studies. 8 (3). Indiana University Press: 123–140. JSTOR 30245620.
- Said, Edward W. (2004). "Memory, Inequality, and Power: Palestine and the Universality of Human Right". Alif: Journal of Comparative Poetics. 47 (3). American University in Cairo: 15–33. doi:10.2307/4047418. JSTOR 4047418.
- Kuriansky, Judy (2005). The Case for Palestine: An International Law Perspective. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 978-0275990411.
- Midlarsky, Manus I. (2005). The Killing Trap: Genocide in the Twentieth Century. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0521894692.
- Quigley, John (2006). Terror in the Holy Land: Inside the Anguish of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Duke University Press. ISBN 978-0-8223-8676-6.
Usher, Graham (2006). "The wall and the dismemberment of Palestine". Race & Class. 47 (3). SAGE Publications: 9–30. doi:10.1177/0306396806061084.Abed, Mohammed (2006). "Clarifying the Concept of Genocide". Metaphilosophy. 37 (3–4). Blackwell Publishing: 308–330. doi:10.1111/j.1467-9973.2006.00443.x.- Moshman, David (2007). "Us and Them: Identity and Genocide". Identity: An International Journal of Theory and Research. 7 (2): 115–135.
- Ganguly, Debjani; Curthoys, Ned, eds. (2007). Edward Said: The Legacy of a Public Intellectual. Melbourne University Publishing. ISBN 978-0522853568.
- Rogan, Eugene L.; Shlaim, Avi, eds. (2007). The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948. Cambridge Middle East Studies (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0521699341. – First edition, 2001
- Vollhardt, Johanna R. (2009). "The Role of Victim Beliefs in the Israeli–Palestinian Conflict: Risk or Potential for Peace?". Peace and Conflict. 15 (2). Routledge: 135–159. doi:10.1080/10781910802544373. ISSN 1532-7949.
- Hanafi, Sari (2009). "Spacio-cide: colonial politics, invisibility and rezoning in Palestinian territory". Contemporary Arab Affairs. 2 (1). Brill: 106–121. doi:10.1080/17550910802622645. ISSN 1755-0920.
- Bloxham, Donald (2009). The Final Solution: A Genocide. Oxford Histories. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0199550340.
- 2010–2015
- Lieberman, Benjamin (2010). "'Ethnic Cleansing' versus Genocide?". In Bloxham, Donald; Moses, A. Dirk (eds.). The Oxford Handbook of Genocide Studies. Oxford University Press. pp. 42–60. doi:10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199232116.013.0003. ISBN 978-0199232116.
- Collins, John (2010). "Between Acceleration and Occupation: Palestine and the Struggle for Global Justice". Studies in Social Justice. 4 (2): 199–215. doi:10.26522/ssj.v4i2.1002.
- Herman, Edward S.; Peterson, David (2010). The Politics of Genocide. Monthly Review Press. ISBN 978-1583672129.
Cook, William A., ed. (2010). The Plight of the Palestinians: A Long History of Destruction. Palgrave Macmillan. doi:10.1057/9780230107922. ISBN 978-0230107922.Saldívar, Martha Vanessa (December 2010). "From Mexico to Palestine: An Occupation of Knowledge, a Mestizaje of Methods". American Quarterly. 62 (4). Johns Hopkins University Press: 821–833.- Moshman, David (2011). "Identity, Genocide, and Group Violence". In Schwartz, Seth J.; Luyck, Koen; Vignoles, Vivian L. (eds.). Handbook of Identity Theory and Research. Springer. pp. 917–932. doi:10.1007/978-1-4419-7988-9_39. ISBN 978-1-4419-7988-9.
- Davidson, Lawrence (2012). Cultural Genocide. Rutgers University Press. ISBN 978-0813553443.
- Docker, John (2012). "Instrumentalising the Holocaust: Israel, Settler-Colonialism, Genocide (Creating a Conversation between Raphaël Lemkin and Ilan Pappé)". Holy Land Studies. 11 (1). ISSN 1474-9475.
- Lloyd, David (2012). "Settler Colonialism and the State of Exception: The Example of Palestine/Israel". Settler Colonial Studies. 2 (1): 59–80. doi:10.1080/2201473X.2012.10648826.
- Shalhoub-Kevorkian, Nadera (2014). "Human suffering in colonial contexts: reflections from Palestine". Settler Colonial Studies. 4 (3): 277–290. doi:10.1080/2201473X.2013.859979.
- 2015–2020
Lentin, Ronit (2016). "Palestine/Israel and State Criminality: Exception, Settler Colonialism and Racialization". State Crime Journal. 5 (1): 32–50. doi:10.13169/statecrime.5.1.0032. JSTOR 10.13169/statecrime.5.1.0032.- Shalhoub-Kevorkian, Nadera (2016). "Stolen childhood: Palestinian children and the structure of genocidal dispossession". Settler Colonial Studies. 6 (2): 142–152. doi:10.1080/2201473X.2015.1024380.
- David, Lea (2017). "Holocaust and genocide memorialisation policies in the Western Balkans and Israel/Palestine". Peacebuilding. 5 (1): 51–66. doi:10.1080/21647259.2016.1265045.
- Levine, Mark; Cheyfitz, Eric (2017). "Israel, Palestine, and the Language of Genocide". Tikkun. 32 (2): 50–55. doi:10.1215/08879982-3858345.
- Culverwell, Shannon M. (2017). Israel and Palestine- An analysis of the 2014 Israel-Gaza war from a genocidal perspective (BA).
- Amir, Merav (2017). "Revisiting politicide: state annihilation in Israel/Palestine". Territory, Politics, Governance. 5 (4): 368–387. doi:10.1080/21622671.2016.1231630.
Bashir, Bashir; Goldberg, Amos, eds. (2018). The Holocaust and the Nakba: A New Grammar of Trauma and History. Columbia University Press. ISBN 978-0231544481.Abdullah, Daud (2019). "A century of cultural genocide in Palestine". In Bachman, Jeffrey S. (ed.). Cultural Genocide: Law, Politics, and Global Manifestations. Routledge. pp. 227–245. ISBN 978-1-351-21410-0.- Divine, Donna Robinson (2019). "Word Crimes: Reclaiming The Language of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict". Israel Studies. 24 (2). Indiana University Press: 1–16. doi:10.2979/israelstudies.24.2.01. JSTOR 10.2979/israelstudies.24.2.01.
- 2020–September 2023
Nijim, Mohammed (2020). Genocide in Gaza: Physical destruction and beyond (MA). University of Manitoba.- Fatafta, Marwa (2021). "Permission to Narrate 2.0". Arab Studies Journal. 29 (2): 128–133.
- Farsakh, Leila H., ed. (2021). Rethinking Statehood in Palestine: Self-Determination and Decolonization Beyond Partition. University of California Press. doi:10.1525/luminos.113. ISBN 978-0520385634.
Nijim, Mohammed (2023). "Genocide in Palestine: Gaza as a case study". The International Journal of Human Rights. 27 (1): 165–200. doi:10.1080/13642987.2022.2065261.- Musleh-Motut, Nawal (2023). Connecting the Holocaust and the Nakba Through Photograph-based Storytelling: Willing the Impossible. Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 978-3-031-27238-7.
- October 2023–Present
"Active Genocide Alert - Israel-Palestine: There is No Justification for Genocide". Genocide Watch. 13 October 2023."Genocide Emergency Alert: Israel and Gaza". Lemkin Institute for the Prevention of Genocide. 17 October 2023.El-Affendi, Abdelwahab (2024). "The Futility of Genocide Studies After Gaza". Journal of Genocide Research. 27 (1). doi:10.1080/14623528.2024.2305525.
- -- Cdjp1 (talk) 19:29, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I don't think recency bias is unreasonable here considering the current accusation (in this war) is by far the most significant. JDiala (talk) 08:08, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- I also think that it seems reasonable to expand on this article with the reliable sources that you have found. David A (talk) 08:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Oh dear
The Bias Against Israel on Wikipedia p-11. Ho hum. Selfstudier (talk) 19:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, it seems like the problem isn't that 2.3 million Palestinians will soon have all been gleefully, enthusiastically, sadistically, and maliciously starved to death. The problem was that anybody reported truthfully about that it ever happened. I suppose that warrants lots of lobbying for censorship against the Wikimedia Foundation. David A (talk) 21:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Any coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict, no matter how neutral it tries to be, will always be considered "biased" by some party to the conflict, due to the opposing sides wildly diverging perspectives on the conflict. I don't think there's much reason to pay attention to this critique as the World Jewish Congress is hardly an impartial observer here. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:05, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do not think that we should underestimate the enormous lobbying power of AIPAC or the extreme willingness of United States politicians to act according to their wishes, possibly including passing legislation to systematically censor Wikipedia. David A (talk) 08:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Some recent work by the author of that missive. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/378467937_Beauty_work_or_beauty_care_Women's_perceptions_of_appearance_in_the_second_half_of_life Selfstudier (talk) 09:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- The author mentions Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany in an interview in response to the question "What has been the most biased Wikipedia entry you have seen?". Said article was created by the one who shall not be named. Selfstudier (talk) 18:04, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- That article was created as "holocaust inversion" and has since been renamed and rather significantly edited. IMO it's more NPOV now than it was when it was created.
- I wish the author would create an account here and really get into the detailed process of challenging NPOV, because either there are sources we're missing that should be incorporated into these articles, or there aren't, but AFAICS neither the paper nor the interviews get into that inconvenient level of detail. Levivich (talk) 18:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, the paper cites no sources, no scholarship that could be used here. The piece is basically a polemic with no references that illustrate the bias in this article. If this article is unfairly biased, it's because the reliable sources are intellectually compromised, and there's nothing any editor can do about that. Jonathan f1 (talk) 04:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- I do not think that we should underestimate the enormous lobbying power of AIPAC or the extreme willingness of United States politicians to act according to their wishes, possibly including passing legislation to systematically censor Wikipedia. David A (talk) 08:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Infobox
There is an infobox on this page: Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. Why can’t there be one here. There was one, but it was removed, It could be restored with any necessary changes. Scientelensia (talk) 11:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Valuable image removed?
User:Monopoly31121993(2) removed[1] a long-standing photo of Jewish people protesting against the Palestinian genocide in London, initially without a rationale, then (when reverted) with an edit summary stating that there was not enough room for two images removed the less relevant image which is also highly offensive to most Jews who consider the genocide accusation as blood libel
[2] This edit and comment seemed to censor the fact that Israeli policies also face opposition by some Jews. Combined with the fact that Monopoly31121993(2) today tried to brand all those bringing up the accusations of genocide as Hamas supporters[3], I'm apprehensive that this removal may not be to the benefit of Wikipedia.
I wonder how the community views the issue. BTW, I've exhausted my revert quota for today. — kashmīrī TALK 21:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- What a bunch of blatant lies. Total mischaracterization of an image, it's not from London, there is nothing in the source that says this is a protest by jews. Also, you claim that I accused someone of being a Hamas supporter simply because I added a link to an article about decades of Palestinian claims against Israel? Kashmiri, you seem to be blatantly pushing your pro-Palestinian bias. Please refrain from editing pages related to this topic.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 08:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- And btw, the image that you claim (inaccurately) shows Jews in London was replaced with a relevant image of a protester claiming "genocide" was being carried out in Palestine on Oct. 9th immediately after the war began which clearly shows that the "genocide" accusation has been around even before the Israeli invasion. The explanation that I provided was that the replacement image was not relevant to section that it had been posted in previously but was relevant to the section where I had moved it. There was however only space for one image in that section.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 08:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
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