Talk:Sasha Grey

Template:Vital article

Pendu Sound Recordings

FYI, the last red link on Sasha Grey can be now resolved by Draft:Pendu Sound Recordings, please kick it if you can, it's one of several possible showstoppers for a GA review request.
Other issues: All references have to be checked and fixed with WAYBACK if they don't work as expected. The #Activism section should cover Equal Pay Day and maybe Planned Parenthood, unless that ends up in a hopeless tangle with donations from selling her merch. The relevance of more than 1.2M Twitter followers is unclear (for me), feedback requested on enwiki doesn't care how many friends you have. –84.46.53.62 (talk) 15:36, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

GFE 2009 for #Acting

— unsigned image to the right added by 84.46.52.217 (talk) 12:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

GFE 2009 beats Broken 2007 for #Acting. –84.46.52.115 (talk) 11:08, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Something about Sasha Grey in art and culture as pop icon or similar is also missing, maybe as new section under #Personal life mentioning Richard Phillips, Richard Prince etc.^[1] Not sure how to tackle this: –84.46.53.251 (talk) 06:51, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Richard Phillips (American painter) covered in #Appearances (major parts of this stub are about Sasha Grey.) –84.46.53.245 (talk) 15:10, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Ditto for the Matteo Bittanti page linked above, intentional red link here, a teacher + researcher at the California College of the Arts mentioned on 14 enwiki pages should be notable. –84.46.53.245 (talk) 15:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

That didn't make it, self-published source by Matteo Bittanti not quoted anywhere else as far as Googlebot can tell it for queries Duellanti 2010 "sasha grey" or "Matteo Bittanti" "sasha grey".<shrug />, yet another demo why I considered "patrol" or "review" rights (not here) as honour (checking contributions by other editors), and disliked "auto-patrol" rights (because it bypassed 4 eyes for my own contributions), GB fan  –84.46.53.245 (talk) 22:28, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Twitter followers (no matter what the number is) are irrelevant without WP:42 reference (consensus). –84.46.53.3 (talk) 00:31, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

This edit covers Equal Pay Day, seven years + one day too late (I didn't bother to find a source for March 8, 2012, assuming a PEBKAC on my side). Oddly this edit is tagged as possible BLP vandalism. Nice, if that accelerates the review here, but stupid, if it distracts reviewers from more urgent issues. So far I figured out that this tag is always triggered by YouTube videos as references, now I wonder if that feature is implemented as "using the word 'video' on a BLP", which would be extremely minimalistic. –84.46.53.128 (talk) 07:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Planned Parenthood added to #Activism, there are just too many good references to drop it silently here, only because I consider any merch as abomination. –84.46.53.128 (talk) 09:54, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Instead of sources for Richard Prince I found Julião Sarmento and more important thejuliettesociety.com with a better bio than on her home page.^T-39h –84.46.52.207 (talk) 16:07, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Two references incl. Dazed should do for A4 (2010), just in case here's 3rd reference:^[2] –84.46.52.207 (talk) 19:04, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Chris Hanley was a dead end, or I didn't grok it. –84.46.52.207 (talk) 20:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

All references checked: 57 revisions started on March 14, 22:17 PDT (2019-03-15 05:17Z); now nominated as good article in category Media and drama. Total changes since 2018-12-09: 315 revisions from 43,870 bytes with 96 references to 62,186 bytes with 134 references. –84.46.52.92 (talk) 19:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

FYI: Talk:Playboy#Sasha Grey. –84.46.52.92 (talk) 08:44, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Fixed, now listed as celebrity on Playboy, and because Playboy is already wikilinked in the body no further #See also list is required at the moment (Grey is on two Playboy lists.) –84.46.52.28 (talk) 14:51, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

And Talk:Pop icon#Emma Peel + Sasha Grey. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 15:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Updated status from 2018-12-09, old 43,870 bytes with  96 references, new 71,545 bytes with 153 references.
Updated status (before review), was 62,186 bytes with 134 references, now 71,545 bytes with 153 references. –84.46.52.103 (talk) 17:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Updated status (before review), was 62,186 bytes with 134 references, now 73,113 bytes with 155 references. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 01:06, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Updated status (before review), was 62,186 bytes with 134 references, now 76,072 bytes with 163 references. –84.46.53.181 (talk) 03:35, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Double fault: Pendu Sound noticed dark ambient and "death-dub".[108], 2nd Pendu red link four lines below the 1st has to be unlinked. Reference [108] is a dupe of [12], all-caps in [12] is ugly, otherwise it can be recycled.
Unforced error: the 2011 video game Saints Row: The Third, which was released in November 2011, unsourced + irrelevant release month, for Linux it was allegedly 2016. –84.46.52.217 (talk) 13:23, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Minor nits fixed, the major stuff noted in the next paragraph follows in April. –84.46.52.44 (talk) 18:22, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I think I never tried to find a review for book II instead of III, AXS:^[3] Same author, same site, 2016 (fresh for S.G.), about music:^[4] Modeling for Interview (magazine) Germany:^[5]. In #Awards wikilinking Babysitters (adult film) makes sense (redirect to section, won in a film category), it should be also added in #Career near her 25th AVN awards. –84.46.52.217 (talk) 19:22, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

All added / done: –84.46.53.186 (talk) 10:57, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Potentially good hypocritedesign.com source about Richard Phillips' short film still discussed (RS or not) at the TEAHOUSE. –84.46.53.186 (talk) 12:30, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Meanwhile archived, I've added HyDe (Trial and Error), 2nd use as source on enwiki. –84.46.53.140 (talk) 10:21, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

I've removed two WP:RS/N#HuffPost contributors sources, one reference replaced by a Pendu source copied from the draft. –84.46.53.140 (talk) 10:31, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

A total of four HuffPost/artinfo removed with extreme prejudice. –84.46.52.110 (talk) 14:32, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – Draft published by Nanophosis, thanks: –84.46.52.203 (talk) 23:02, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Batch2

1. Clumsy "somewhere in between", yes, but Kinsey scale has no grey, and I have no better idea how to express this. Actually it's a verbatim quote, but she said straight and gay instead of heterosexual and homosexual. Willing to replace this by her plain English if desired... –84.46.53.4 (talk) 16:24, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

   Fixed by Bilorv. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

2. I Melt With You, she played a minor role, reviews of the film belong on I Melt with You (film). I've added the wikilinked director, apparently they both like Nine Inch Nails and (from the NYC Pendu crowd) Chelsea Wolfe.
3. Shrouded Corpse Bathing While Hip-Shaking: No reviews apart from the Indonesian reference, even the English title is unclear (IMDb uses Membunu: murder).
4. Would You Rather (film) covered by Rotten critics consensus and on its wikilinked page. We have the quote of Amy played by Grey in the Rotten reference.
5. China Test Girls: No wikilink, no entry on Rotten, the reference is the best available background info.
6. Saints Row: That's two wikilinked video games, reviews belong on the relevant pages, she's only voicing one of the major protagonists in these games.

   Added THQ interview video as reference. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

7. Durch die Nacht mit ...: That's a documentary, some Rotten Tomatoes links (this + two others for Grey) lead nowhere. I'm aware of one German review roughly stating that the two persons (Sasha + a lady from Hamburg) were very different, the German introvert kind of overwhelmed by the more extrovert Grey. Is that interesting?

   Added Herbertstrasse, Hamburg, nightlife, good enough. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

8. Entourage: That should be handled on the wikilinked 7th season list. It isn't, but I've also not seen any significant review about Grey's role apart from episode summaries. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 18:04, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

   7th season got fresh + rotten tomatoes. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

9. aTelecine: There are six pages for major works of this band, detailed descriptions on who did what when belong on these pages. She was a co-founder of the band, and in his post-split interview Cinnamon claimed that he did most of the later work. She got the dog. That dog is arguably relevant (on Personal life) if desired, it has its own Twitter etc. accounts, even a (dead) YouTube channel.

   No pets/cats/dogs on BLPs per Talk:Emma Blackery#Missing info. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

10. We have better sources for her contributions to ex-TG (vocals covering Nico) etc. (mostly vocals), and detailed info about the Consequences of love for Death in Vegas (co-producer, video director, lyrics, singer.)

    Richard Fearless wikilinked, Talk:Death in Vegas 2006…2018 rewritten. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

11. Some parts of the music will make more sense when Draft:Pendu Sound Recordings replaces the red link, it's often the same NYC Pendu sound crowd including Grey since aTelecine. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 18:32, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

    2 months old draft added to 5 WikiProjects. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

12. The Equal Pay Day video "controversial", that was a WP:SYNTH by me based on the title of the first reference, and I removed it after your earlier observation and after checking that the content doesn't justify this adjective. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 18:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
13. Is there any more on Grey's political beliefs? Of course, dozens of Twitter messages, but not in MSM as far as I recall that. One earlier op-ed (she was the author) is covered in Personal life. I think she'd be a good journalist if she wanted to, but apparently she wants to be a photographer (cf. Neü Sex and her instagram photos.) Completely un-encyclopedic at the moment. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 19:08, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

    After adding a new source to #Activism with "more than only Sanders" I've removed it again,,^[6] in essence it quoted the old source, and the reliability of mofopolitics.com based on only two other enwiki uses is unclear. WikiLinking Lotta Continua would be unwise. –84.46.52.75 (talk) 13:35, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

    If it's not shown to be particularly significant then there may actually be no need to mention it at all. Just a thought... -- Begoon 14:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

    If you're talking about the motto, I think it's significant, see #Lotta continua below and the three references for it on d:Q2709. Only a wikilink could be misleading, Continuous Struggle is a lousy translation, in German it would be Der Kampf geht weiter, English The fight goes on, in the direction of the Churchill quote in Fool's Overture.^[7] –84.46.52.75 (talk) 07:24, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

    One of the greatest tracks in music history. I saw the live Supertramp tour back in the day. No, really I just meant her support for Sanders, the content in the reference seems to be just "(Sasha is a Bernie supporter)" in a long interview, but I have no strong feelings on its inclusion or not. -- Begoon 07:37, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

    Looking at her Twitter today she's following him or at least re-tweeted his info about the Yemen war resolution (2019-04-04). –84.46.52.225 (talk) 01:29, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

14. The widths of the Award table are still very out of proportion: They are perfect for me tested with two browsers, the first column widths are all determined by the arguably worst cases. The last column co-starring gets by definition the rest, forcing it into a smaller width would break it for me. I now specified column widths (percents) in the header, but as this has almost no effect for me I have no idea what it does for you. Wild guess, your browser window is far wider than 1600 pixels. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 19:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
15. IMDb only used as source for their idiosyncratic "Membunu: Murder" title, this source always was only about their title not matching the title in the Indonesian source, explained above; and in the original edit summary by me added + reviewed months ago, please check [8] and the next three edits for the background. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 19:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

    Pointless reference replaced by wikilink. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

16. Genesis 2009 vs. 2008: Both, #1 2009, #6 2008, possibly more TBD on demand. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 20:11, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
17. Australians queen of the night reneeruin.com is used as source on five pages including Sasha Grey, as noted in the edit summary. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

    Resolved

     – archived RS/N inquiry. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 02:37, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

18. The original summary mixed assessments nailed it, excluding one now removed source about another film: I've restored the good status-quo-antea for the four remaining GFE critics, we made it worse. There are now two other critics (actually three, you mangled two into one, I removed the extra, because I can't see the Orlando Weekly page anymore) covered by The Week, and another review by Violet Blue. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 20:47, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
19. I found the G4tv video as archive.org/details/g4tv.com-video38325 and used this as archiveurl=…, another source for "grey" based on the Kinsey scale. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 21:05, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Final

1. /GA1#Final paragraph 5 of 6 fixed. –2A03:2267:2:0:B8ED:C598:A71B:4D19 (talk) 05:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
2. For today I've had it with paragraph 4 of 6, the trimmed and rewritten lede makes sense for me. –2A03:2267:2:0:8498:22F:A2F6:437F (talk) 07:50, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
3. All overlong quotes trimmed, stripped, or removed, paragraph 3 of 6 addressed. –84.46.52.41 (talk) 08:34, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
4. WP:RS/N#Renee Ruin matches paragraph 1 in the final comments. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 16:07, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

   Fixed based on Just another blog. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 20:45, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

5. Paragraph 2 asking for "more detail" about #Acting and #Music is resolved for the latter, so this reverse count-down will go up to 7. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 06:57, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
6. Paragraph 2 #Acting also done, Entourage 7th season had fresh/rotten tomatoes, critics for films where Grey had no leading role ignored. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 13:59, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Grey vs. Gray

Okay, I knew that there were at least two inspirations for Grey, certainly not related to the much later 50 shades. It's in my 3rd reserve ammo depot chrome://bookmarks/Bookmarks bar/.plan/ToDo/SG, because "no picture/video" is unsuited—or rather, boring—for sharing on G+, LinkedIn, or blogger in the 2010s.^[9] Figuring out what I thought about this source, it cannot be archived, WayBack as client gets an error (400).

That an artist widely recognized as nerd ("el cerebro del sexo") has a spelling error—intentional or otherwise—in her nickname never made sense for me. She mostly sticked to the Dorian Gray legend in public. Clear case of "gotcha" in the paused GA review, I didn't expect some kind of expert in the Fields of Grey, blog label FoG.^[10]

Of course I now have to add the other legend. All good spells have many facets, at least two reasons for Grey are perfectly fine, and Sasha Gray is anyway already listed as alias in the infobox. –84.46.52.208 (talk) 10:09, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Done. –84.46.52.208 (talk) 21:00, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

 – by Bilorv in this edit; I didn't grok grey wrt the Kinsey scale. –84.46.52.115 (talk) 12:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Lotta continua

Fun stuff not related to the GA review, but now might be a good time to discuss it: d:Q2709 (I can type that Interwikilink without checking) has a motto "Lotta continua" with an Italian reference. She actually used it (instead of "regards" or similar) in mails, IIRC she also had a company with that name. –84.46.52.208 (talk) 18:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Implemented (end of lede) with Italian source. –84.46.52.26 (talk) 07:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Now in #Personal life, not wikilinked, Lotta Continua doesn't express Never surrender. –84.46.52.233 (talk) 17:29, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

She has MAS. LC. on her Twitter profile, and LC is exactly what lotta continua says, and agrees with itwiki, therefore "I dare" wikilink it now. For MAS I'm not sure what it is, but Memento Audere Semper would fit (found on it.wiktionary.org/wiki/MAS - eyes wide shut for the fascist connotations.) –84.46.52.225 (talk) 00:59, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

TMZ and the restraining order

@Steam5, Iamcuriousblue, and Bilorv: FYI, I've put TMZ on the BLP/Noticeboard. –84.46.53.4 (talk) 00:48, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

@Iamcuriousblue: The recent GA review kind of forced engagement back in, but I think it is not too bad, Grey used the word "fiancé" at different times. I still hope to nail WP:RS/P#TMZ (yellow: caution, instead of red: stop) on BLP/N. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 14:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

FWIW one contributor on BLP/N wrote about TMZ that No "celebrity gossip" news is ever "reliable", the entry is now archived. –84.46.53.186 (talk) 02:57, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Awards

I've tagged Adultcon with {{multiple issues|{{primary}}{{notability}}}}. For the AFGW awards I found a "Best Orgy Scene" matching the Fashionistas Safado: The Challenge, we already had that as AVN award in the table; I simply added a row for another award. The AFGW award for the Best Blowjob Series went to "Gangbang My Face" (Evil Angel) with Sasha Grey as only one of many other actresses in part 1, not unlike the Fashionistas, but an award for a series, not a scene, therefore I didn't add that. –84.46.53.181 (talk) 03:02, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

The Adultcon "award" 2007 is BS: Adultcon tried this once in 2007. Grey did not get any of their awards, and "Adultcon Vice President Renaud West estimated the attendance at 'maybe 100,' adding, 'It was not well-attended, but the right people were there.'"^[11] She was listed as one of the top 20 hardcore porn actresses, and I had to fix the XBIZ {{cite press}} EL on Adultcon with WayBack to check at least this irrelevant fact.^[12] Maybe it was a consolation price, far below any standard for Sasha Grey after 2007. –84.46.52.115 (talk) 12:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Adultcon 2007 "top 20 honor roll" removed, 16 back to 15 awards. –84.46.53.186 (talk) 01:22, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Now {{multiple issues|{{external}}{{notability}}}}. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Exactly four enwiki articles mention TLARAW: Sasha Grey#Awards matching the List of awards and nominations received by Sasha Grey, Mason (director), and (unsourced) Wasteland (film). I think the two sex toy awards could be also removed as not notable, unless we find some source that she was involved in the engineering or at least present at the award ceremonies. –84.46.53.186 (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

FYI: Talk:List of awards and nominations received by Sasha Grey#TLARAW. –84.46.52.225 (talk) 02:00, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

TLARAW sex toys removed per Special:Diff/891212178/891212307, the WikiProject Awards is still on attention=yes for a third opinion and one last TLARAW award for Mason (director). –84.46.52.219 (talk) 05:54, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Infobox image

At the moment the infobox has "caption = Grey in 2010", should that be "caption = Grey for G4 at AEE 2010" or similar? Technical, "image_upright = 1.11" works for me, please remove it if it doesn't work for you. –84.46.52.48 (talk) 14:58, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Implemented. –84.46.52.44 (talk) 17:53, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Adult and atheist categories

Four adult categories were unclear, and I removed them "immediately" (= years too late) per policy. Are former porn stars supposed to be categorized like active actresses, or does that make no sense? This must be some solved problem, I just don't know what the solution was, and where it is documented, e.g., not in Category:American pornographic film actresses.

Next issue, assuming that one category is okay, which should it be? Is "bisexual" better—in a cybernetical sense, least loss of information—than "American"? For "pornographic film actors from California" I'd assume that it's better than "American pornographic film actresses", a small loss for the gender info vs. a huge win for the location.

After that it gets bizarre, not unusual in the Fields of Grey, is "LGBT adult models" better than "American female adult models", and why on earth do these rotten cats try to mix four unrelated concepts (occupation, location, gender, sexual preferences)? Categories for cinéastes, vinyl collectors, or industrial musicians would be far more interesting than this ex-job/geo/sex mash-up.

I've also replaced two "atheist" categories by one "existentialist" category. Nobody knows if she's an atheist (as in "no god or goddess at all"), a part-time atheist (as in "still praying occasionally"), or even belongs to Category:Christian existentialists, but I know that BLP-cats are no BS-bingo for best OR-guesses. –84.46.53.95 (talk) 19:08, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Commons OVERcat

Ditto, two LGBT cats retired, covered by two corresponding bisexual categories, the locations (CA or US) are also covered in other cats. –84.46.52.142 (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steam5: Your edit summary Please don't remove the categories, This is for her nationality and the occupations makes no sense for me, the B in Bisexual is the same as in LGBT, the former is a proper subset of the latter (aka "sharper"). We have twelve American and five California categories for the nationality, and as noted above two occupations (musician and writer) are already covered by two corresponding sharper Bisexual categories.
If what you want is some verbatim "United States" in the categories, maybe because "American" could be unclear, it's not done, almost all subcats of Category:United States use "American" or the name of the state, e.g., "Actresses from California" => "Women in California" => "California society" => "Society of the Western United States".
If you think that "California" could be unclear, we can move Sasha Grey down to "Actresses from the Greater Los Angeles Area‎", that's not Mexico. Ditto for other American/Californian categories. What we definitely do not need are LGBT categories to get a U.S. nationality. –84.46.53.140 (talk) 12:33, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

@Steam5: 3rd opinion invited: –84.46.53.175 (talk) 23:35, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Fallout

ToDo: Find a RS for the Consequences of Love in Mission: Impossible – Fallout, cf. M:I - Fallout - Nightclub Song BASS REMIX on YouTube. Maybe simplify the current convoluted allmusic reference credits with [13] (2016). –84.46.53.188 (talk) 13:26, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

EL2REF Vice done. If you plan to see her in the former Denver city hall check out their dress code, no refunds. –84.46.52.110 (talk) 08:14, 21 April 2019 (UTC)