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"After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities."
"After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities."
The literal call to dismantle "Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems" is a common far left objective in the western world, an uncorrelated to ecology outside of ecology being a mean to an end.
The literal call to dismantle "Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems" is a common far left objective in the western world, uncorrelated to ecology outside of ecology being a mean to an end.


Omitting such an important political bias held by Greta would is against Wikipedia policy of factual neutrality. This is bad in these days and age, as it will lead to more and more people considering wikipedia "biased and unreliable".
Omitting such an important political bias held by Greta would is against Wikipedia policy of factual neutrality. This is bad in these days and age, as it will lead to more and more people considering wikipedia "biased and unreliable".

Revision as of 20:54, 8 December 2019

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Protected edit request on 26 November 2019

Current

Greta Thunberg[a] FRSGS (born 3 January 2003) is a Swedish environmental activist on climate change whose campaigning has gained international recognition.

Thunberg first became known for her activism in August 2018 when, at age 15, she began spending her school days outside the Swedish parliament to call for stronger action on global warming by holding up a sign saying (in Swedish) "School strike for the climate". Soon, other students engaged in similar protests in their own communities. Together, they organised a school climate strike movement under the name Fridays for Future. After Thunberg addressed the 2018 United Nations Climate Change Conference, student strikes took place every week somewhere in the world. In 2019, there were at least two coordinated multi-city protests involving over one million students each.[1][2]

Thunberg is known for her blunt,[3] straightforward speaking manner,[4] both in public and to political leaders and assemblies, in which she urges immediate action to address what she describes as the climate crisis. At home, Thunberg convinced her parents to adopt several lifestyle choices to reduce their own carbon footprint, including giving up air travel and not eating meat.[5]

References

  1. ^ Cohen, Ilana; Heberle, Jacob (19 March 2019). "Youth Demand Climate Action in Global School Strike". Harvard Political Review. Archived from the original on 5 July 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  2. ^ Haynes, Suyin (24 May 2019). "Students From 1,600 Cities Just Walked Out of School to Protest Climate Change. It Could Be Greta Thunberg's Biggest Strike Yet". Time. Archived from the original on 23 July 2019. Retrieved 22 July 2019.
  3. ^ "'Is my English OK?': Greta Thunberg's blunt speech to UK MPs". SBS News. 25 April 2019. Archived from the original on 30 August 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  4. ^ "The Swedish teen holding world leaders accountable for climate change". France 24. 25 January 2019. Archived from the original on 2 September 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  5. ^ Watts, Jonathan (March 11, 2019). "Greta Thunberg, schoolgirl climate change warrior: 'Some people can let things go. I can't'". The Guardian. Retrieved October 24, 2019. Her parents were the guinea pigs. She discovered she had remarkable powers of persuasion, and her mother gave up flying, which had a severe impact on her career. Her father became a vegetarian.

Notes

  1. ^ Swedish: [²ɡreːta ²tʉːnbærj] ⓘ.
Proposed

Greta Thunberg[a] FRSGS (born 3 January 2003) is a Swedish environmental activist on climate change whose campaigning has gained international recognition. Thunberg is known for her blunt,[1] straightforward speaking manner,[2] both in public and to political leaders and assemblies, in which she urges immediate action to address what she describes as the climate crisis.

Thunberg first became known for her activism in August 2018 when, at age 15, she began spending her school days outside the Swedish parliament to call for stronger action on global warming by holding up a sign saying (in Swedish) "School strike for the climate". Soon, other students engaged in similar protests in their own communities. Together, they organised a school climate strike movement under the name Fridays for Future. After Thunberg addressed the 2018 United Nations Climate Change Conference, student strikes took place every week somewhere in the world. In 2019, there were at least two coordinated multi-city protests involving over one million students each.[3][4] At home, Thunberg convinced her parents to adopt several lifestyle choices to reduce their own carbon footprint, including giving up air travel and not eating meat.[5]

References

  1. ^ "'Is my English OK?': Greta Thunberg's blunt speech to UK MPs". SBS News. 25 April 2019. Archived from the original on 30 August 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  2. ^ "The Swedish teen holding world leaders accountable for climate change". France 24. 25 January 2019. Archived from the original on 2 September 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  3. ^ Cohen, Ilana; Heberle, Jacob (19 March 2019). "Youth Demand Climate Action in Global School Strike". Harvard Political Review. Archived from the original on 5 July 2019. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  4. ^ Haynes, Suyin (24 May 2019). "Students From 1,600 Cities Just Walked Out of School to Protest Climate Change. It Could Be Greta Thunberg's Biggest Strike Yet". Time. Archived from the original on 23 July 2019. Retrieved 22 July 2019.
  5. ^ Watts, Jonathan (March 11, 2019). "Greta Thunberg, schoolgirl climate change warrior: 'Some people can let things go. I can't'". The Guardian. Retrieved October 24, 2019. Her parents were the guinea pigs. She discovered she had remarkable powers of persuasion, and her mother gave up flying, which had a severe impact on her career. Her father became a vegetarian.

Notes

  1. ^ Swedish: [²ɡreːta ²tʉːnbærj] ⓘ.

Reasoning: If she is "known for her blunt, straightforward speaking manner", then this should surely be in the top paragraph, especially to flesh it out a bit and because it is significant - arguably one of the reasons people listen to her. I have not changed any wording, simply moved the ordering around. I have moved the remainder of the paragraph to join with the paragraph above, but this sentence could be moved elsewhere, left alone on its own paragraph, or simply removed. I look forward to discussing this proposal and I thank you for your time. Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 20:11, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:00, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: should I go for a WP:RFC or wait to see if others participate or create a new section to discuss this? Thanks, Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 18:08, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No need for that. Just allow a few days to give others a chance to comment. If there is support (or no opposition) then I can make the change. Cheers — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MSGJ: is it long enough now? Thanks, Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 10:38, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and by the way, there is no longer full protection on the article. Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 10:39, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you go ahead and make the change and be prepared to discuss further if an editor disagrees. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:50, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done thanks for the help. Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 21:40, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Her full name Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg should be put in the lede

Her full name should be put in the lede. Everyone else's bio page does this. Including the lovely Tony Blair, for instance. And the handsome Charles Clarke. And Paul McCartney. And Paul's daughter, Stella McCartney. MartiniShaw (talk) 16:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why certain editors keep deleting it from the opening on the English wikipeida. Not acceptable given we can source it and it is her name. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Quite. Mussolini has it. Hitler too, though Adolf (born Adolphus) only had one first name. I can't find anyone else who does not have their full name in the lede, and I have looked all over the place. As you say, not acceptable. MartiniShaw (talk) 17:08, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You already brought this up for discussion on 31 August 2019. See the existing thread in the archives. As for me, I'm concerned that the inclusion of her full name would cause unwanted titillation among those who are biased against the subject. Esowteric+Talk 17:11, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And that is, itself a rehashed discussion from 4 June 2019. Esowteric+Talk 17:19, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See MOS:BIRTHNAME. I don't see the risk of "unwanted titillation among those who are biased against the subject" being a factor in that guidance. It's her name (as included in the infobox), so - if it's reliably sourced - it should be included in the opening sentence. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Full names, especially of BLPs that get a high level of attention, require a reliable source. If not it’s best left in the infobox. For example, for YEARS people thought Emilia Clarke’s middle names were Isabelle Euphemia Rose based on shotty sourcing from some British business database; but in her op-ed she said her full name was Emilia Isobel Euphemia Rose Clarke. Same name, different variation. Err on the side of caution until then. Trillfendi (talk) 17:28, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"the subject's full name, if known, should be given in the lead sentence". No mention of any "caution" in the Manual Of Style on Wikipedia. And her full name is given in the info box so your argument is without any merit whatsoever. At the risk of repetition of the MOS, "the subject's full name, if known, should be given in the lead sentence". MartiniShaw (talk) 17:38, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Caution comes from the Biography of Living Persons policy, not the manual of style. The first word is literally caution! Is it that hard? Trillfendi (talk) 18:00, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This appears to be a reliable source giving her full name. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:51, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Trillfendi, is what hard? The BLP rules you are referring to do indeed have "Caution" as literally the first word. BUT...the sentence is "Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event."
Is Greta Thunberg discussed in terms of a single event? Obviously not. Don't flog dead horses. Thanks! MartiniShaw (talk) 14:35, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Policy doesn’t discriminate against notoriety. Trillfendi (talk) 14:43, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or against puppets on strings. MartiniShaw (talk) 15:07, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could you clarify who and what you mean by "puppets on strings"? Esowteric+Talk 15:59, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What did I mean by that phrase? I was referring to some editors on here who seem to be easily influenced by those who should know better. I won't name names in order not to miff anyone. I hope that explains things a little, and nobody in particular was troubled. Cheers! MartiniShaw (talk) 03:09, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've blocked MartiniShaw for a continuing pattern of boundary-pushing on this subject. Acroterion (talk) 03:21, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is an excellent source. Well done. Thank you for your thoughtful, hard work! MartiniShaw (talk) 17:57, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:VERIFY: "In Wikipedia, verifiability means other people using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source ..."
WP:BLPPRIVACY: "With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, people increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public ..." Esowteric+Talk 18:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Her full name is already in the article. The article breaches the Wikipedia's Manual Of Style by not putting the full name in the lead sentence. MartiniShaw (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Makwan Prize referenced in this article, which quotes her full name, has been presented to her. If her name was given wrongly, or if she objected to its publication on that site, it is reasonable to assume that the organisers of the prize would have removed or corrected it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:26, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
MartiniShaw, you write "Do not add irrelevant claptrap about privacy. Her full name is already on the page. It should be in the correct place!". MOS contains guidelines; BLP contains policy. Policy trumps guidelines, and guidelines trump essays. Esowteric+Talk 18:28, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any other good examples of living people (notable, by definition) where we withhold mention of publicly and reliably known full names on the grounds of privacy concerns? If not, it seems that the only factor in this case is that some editors think that publication of her full name in the lede would in some way fuel opposition to what she says - which is an irrelevant consideration. If this disagreement is not going to be resolved on this page, it should be put into a wider forum for discussion. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:37, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps take it to an RfC, Ghmyrtle? Is there precedent, or do two RSs fulfill the policy "Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public". The word "widely" looks deliberate on the part of the policy-makers. Esowteric+Talk 18:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Esowteric: You have no evidence it would cause titillation among our readers, and your comment about readers biased against the subject seems completely off-topic, we can't anticipate the reactions of our readers and nor should we. If you want to include your assertion in our BLP policy go ahead and try, otherwise your comment has no value here, what matters is sourced material not original research editors causing titillation among so-called prejudiced readers. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 19:07, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Esowteric: Two previous discussions strongly indicates no consensus to not include. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 19:09, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@RichardWeiss: That was just an aside. I am actually concerned that including GT's full name may contravene existing WP BLP policy, though I may be mistaken, and I'm willing to stand corrected. This has already been discussed at length twice (see archives), so maybe it's not such a clear-cut issue? Esowteric+Talk 19:12, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also aware that we're into a second recent full page protection for partisan content disputes, so it would be good to hear from uninvolved editors. Esowteric+Talk 19:28, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm concerned that the inclusion of her full name would cause unwanted titillation among those who are biased against the subject
  • tit·il·la·tion - the arousal of interest or excitement, especially through sexually suggestive images or words
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean. GMGtalk 19:53, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck through that comment. There have been so many content disputes and quibbles here recently, finding any way to nibble away at the article and demote the subject's standing or, as her opponents would say, "deify" her – that I gave way to momentary exasperation. Esowteric+Talk 20:14, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Some good examples include Salvador Dali, Kiefer Sutherland and Mobutu Sese Seko, Sutherland still alive. So what is different about Greta? ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 20:22, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) If we have a reliable source, I'm not sure I understand how including her full name says anything one way or another, for or against. Seems like a pretty mundane fact. GMGtalk 20:24, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg's full name is already there so any special considerations for privacy (or whatever the no-full-name people are coming up with) are without any merit whatsoever. The issue here is that her full name Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg should be in the leading sentence like every other BLP on Wikipedia. If it is a mundane fact then let's just do it. Cheers! MartiniShaw (talk) 22:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding the full name to the lede. As noted in the RfC section below, I think the two reliably-sourced citations should be provided (whether the full name occurs in the lede or the infobox) to meet policy on WP:VERIFY and WP:BLPPRIVACY. Esowteric+Talk 06:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Prior to this, the infobox entry should have been cited. Esowteric+Talk 07:05, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think you guys should edit the official page to show her full name. I read all the talks here and it's nonsense that the US and BR version does not show up her full name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.216.145.7 (talk) 20:02, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Totally agree. Relevant sources must be provided tho. DAVRONOVA.A. ✉ ⚑ 09:44, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment

Should the subject's full name, Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg, be included in the opening sentence? Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:17, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes I think it is appropriate to include her full name in the lede, but it should only include her full name. IE don't say "Greta Thunberg (Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg born 3 January 2003)..." just say "Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg (born 3 January 2003)..." Cook907 (talk) 20:33, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why would anyone repeat her name in parentheses if her full name was there? Trillfendi (talk) 20:41, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is Wikipedia, I'm sure you've seen worse things out there 😂. Cook907 (talk) 20:58, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Several times an hour, my friend. Trillfendi (talk) 01:16, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We generally would only use parenthetical when the person is most commonly known by a pseudonym or have changed their name. When they are commonly known by a nickname or some other condensed version of their real name, we would generally use the full birth name. When someone is known by a condensed version of a changed name, then we would use the COMMONNAME for the title, use the full current name for the initial bold, and use their birth name in parenthesis. For an example, see Bill Clinton. GMGtalk 21:26, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In answer to @MartiniShaw's dismissively signing off with: "Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg's full name is already there [without reliable citation] so any special considerations for privacy (or whatever the no-full-name people are coming up with) are without any merit whatsoever." Again, I would gently point out that (generally speaking) BLP contains policy and MOS contains guidelines, and that policy trumps guidelines which trump essays.
WP:BLPPRIVACY: "With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, people increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public ..."
Hence the need for more than one RS citation. Anyhow, many thanks! Update: Thanks for doing that, @WWGB. Esowteric+Talk 06:43, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Request to add native pronunciation of surname

On Japanese TV she is referred to as グレタ・トゥーンベリ as if the surname is pronounced "toon-berry". I am a bit curious as to whether this is correct. Can we get a native pronunciation of the surname in the article? Thanks. PeepleLikeYou (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @PeepleLikeYou: Here's an interview wherein at thirteen minutes and seven seconds into the the interview Greta addresses the many pronunciations of her name. Click and go to 13:07 of the interview where Greta pronounces her name.Johnrichardhall (talk) 09:10, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This talk page is for discussing ways to improve the article. I think it would be an improvement to the article to add the pronunciation to it. PeepleLikeYou (talk) 13:51, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think an audio clip would be an excellent addition. Paulmlieberman (talk) 15:16, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @PeepleLikeYou and @Paulmlieberman. I just found that there is an audio clip of the correct pronunciation of Thunberg's name within her bio. It is found as "cite 2a (note a)" of the opening sentence on her bio, right after her printed name. It can also be accessed here:
Thank you very much for your contribution. PeepleLikeYou (talk) 01:58, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed there is such a note in place and has been for some time. The surname in normal English (standard English phonetics) is Thun (starts with vocal 'th' as in them, those & rhymes with gun) plus -berg which rhymes with the first syllable in Ferguson or in the surname of Peter Bergman and many other Americans. People interested in learning and practicing Swedish phonetics can see that note. However the long 'u' in Swedish is practically impossible for speakers of English to say 100% right. If I were trying to teach it I would suggest Tibnberry. "Toon-" is way off the mark. Mispronouncing any name - trying but not succeeding (like when CNN makes an incomprehensible mess of Göteborg) - is not considered courteous when it comes to personal names and is thus always inappropriate. We know Greta in English from Greta Garbo and I recommend, there too, to stick to standard English phonetics. When getting into its Swedish pronunciation we run into standard Swedish versus Stockholm dialect, etc. - it's complicated - which thanks to Ms. Garbo is not needed here. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:04, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Greta political agenda missing despite being a political figure

There is no mention whatsoever to her political affiliation or those of her family, despite her co-signing far-left extremists manifesto.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-strikes-un-conference-madrid-by-greta-thunberg-et-al-2019-11

"After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities."

The literal call to dismantle "Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems" is a common far left objective in the western world, uncorrelated to ecology outside of ecology being a mean to an end.

Omitting such an important political bias held by Greta would is against Wikipedia policy of factual neutrality. This is bad in these days and age, as it will lead to more and more people considering wikipedia "biased and unreliable".

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