Talk:Turkey

Requested move 20 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:SNOW (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 19:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

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Turkey → Türkiye – The country has changed its English name to Türkiye. 2600:6C5A:657F:D1F5:48D3:2853:9745:8762 (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Won't happen as everyone will keep referring to them as Turkey! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, per WP:COMMONNAME. Even in the period after Erdogan's December memo, 'Turkey' predominates in English-language sources. News in the past 48 hours has described the name change as an ongoing process, with unclear timelines. It's far too soon to make a call on this, and I propose a short moratorium on requested moves until other governments, inter-governmental agencies, and news media can react to moves by the country. Firefangledfeathers 03:36, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Obviously way too soon for such a major change. Wikipedia does not lead, it follows. But if this ever does catch on and the article gets moved, then Turkey (bird) should be moved to Turkey. Rreagan007 (talk) 04:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Since the bird is named for the country, we'll have to change its name to "Türkiye" also to be consistent. :) BilCat (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. As stated above, the most common in the English-language name for the nation is Turkey. Perhaps if media and other sources follow suit with using Türkiye, there would be a stronger argument for the change. ExRat (talk) 05:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Alex2006 (talk) 06:26, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME. Turkiye or its equivalent only used by Turkey major English sources. 125.167.57.203 (talk) 07:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, until the preponderance of reliable English language sources routinely use the spelling "Türkiye". Cullen328 (talk) 07:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose No sign WP:COMMONNAME has changed, as stated above. This needs more than a memo from Erdogan to change it - WP:RS English-language usage has to change before we change. DeCausa (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Firefangledfeathers. Slightly off-topic, this website [1] use the new spelling, but this [2] doesn't yet. Apparently, the word "Turkish" is still ok per government.[3] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The name change is not even adopted yet by the largest two Turkish media in English language, Hurriyet Daily News and Daily Sabah, who continue to use "Turkey" as of now. Due mention of the name change can be slowly phased in if usage in local and global English-language media actually increases. Once the name change will be established and dominate in a wide range of sources (which is entirely WP:CRYSTALBALL), we can address the page title again. –Austronesier (talk) 12:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose the English name is Turkey, not "Türkiye". Super Ψ Dro 13:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Turkish Constiution. Shadow4dark (talk) 13:46, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - obviously not the common name. The limit should probably be the lede sentence and a mention in the prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. This should be a snow close at this point, as it's obvious this RM will fail. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support and make this title a DAB, no clear primary topic for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:34, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • @Crouch, Swale: could you provide a rationale for your !vote? Firefangledfeathers 19:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
    • @Firefangledfeathers: A combination of WP:NATURAL, alternative names may be used to settle titles by using alternative names as well as WP:NOPRIMARY for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:29, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I would note that we have no reason to assume that Türkiye will ever be used a an English word by native English speakers. If we accept Crouch, Swale's argument above, the correct response would be the one they proposed at the August RM. Kahastok talk 18:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

  My point was partly the fact that the country is probably going to sometimes be called "Turkey" and sometimes "Türkiye" so this reduces the chances of the country being primary for "Turkey". Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support per noWP:NAMECHANGES.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:17, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
  • WP:NAMECHANGES would support retaining 'Turkey', as independent, reliable sources since the name change are continuing to use 'Turkey'. See, for example, the first five new pieces I found searching for 'Erdogan': Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal, Times of Israel, The Defense Post, and Reuters]. All but Reuters use 'Turkey' exclusively, and Reuters uses neither version. Firefangledfeathers 19:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The name "Turkey"

its "Turkiye" not "Turkey", according to the literal leader of turkiye. The nation changed its name after concerns of mistaking the country's name with the food, or how the word "Turkey" is a metaphore for being an idiot or stupid in some places. Guck the Mighty (talk) 22:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Republic of Türkiye as official name

The Ivory Coast article currently continues to use the name Ivory Coast for the article's title but lists the country's official name as Republic of Côte d'Ivoire. While Côte d'Ivoire is not the common English name of the country, it is the governments official name for use in English. Currently the websites for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Culture and Tourism, Agriculture and Forestry, Health, Justice, National Defense, National Education, Trade and Treasury and Finance all list the countries official English name as the Republic of Türkiye. The majority of ministries that are not on this list are due to them not having official English language websites. The country's English official name being the Republic of Türkiye is overwhelmingly backed by the Turkish government, which is the most authoritative source of what the country's official name is. While Republic of Türkiye is not the common English name, it is undeniable the official English translation of the country's name and that it should be listed as such in the info box and lede. --Kappasi (talk) 17:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there a discussion board for this? I wouldn't mind changing the official name to Republic of Türkiye, but at the same time WP rules that the name should follow what is most prevailingly used in English. For example the Czech government has lobbied for years to change the official short name of their country to Czechia but this has not caught on in conventional English usage, so the article name remains "Czech Republic". Yekshemesh (talk) 18:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Yekshemesh: WP:COMMONNAME applies only to article titles. Republic of Türkiye is the full official name, and to say that anything else is the full official name would be misinformation.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:26, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Like I said, I don't mind the name change but what do other editors say? I saw there was a discussion board for this. Yekshemesh (talk) 01:56, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

This would be the place and I made the change since nobody has objected. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 14:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Perhaps you'd consider elaborating on why you reverted [4] this change as you've provided no information in the edit summary? Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 17:07, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

We discussed this several times. There is still no consensus on this name, and there is still no UN submission on this official name change. Beshogur (talk) 17:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

A submission to the UN makes very little difference. Countries such as Abkhazia and Transnistria still have official names without even being part of the UN. At the end of the day, the Turkish government is in charge of what their county is called in an official capacity. Kappasi (talk) 19:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Well bad examples of non-UN members. Except, Turkey is still used in international issues. Beshogur (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Then discussions like this are the place to build consensus and I think it's time to start an RfC. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 20:03, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I would support inclusion, but we might see soon whether UN is going to accept it as "Türkiye" or "Turkiye", without the "ü" which doesn't exist in English. So I would wait. Beshogur (talk) 20:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The websites of the Grand National Assembly and Constitutional Court haven't changed the name. It looks like mostly executive branch institutions that have adopted the name. Firefangledfeathers (talk | contribs) 17:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

While it seems to have not yet been adopted by other branches of government, the name change was through a presidential decree which means that it is Turkish law unless the another law is introduced by the Parliament to overrule it. Kappasi (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

It’s misleading to say the presidential decree makes “Republic of Turkiye“ an official name. It doesn’t. There is, under the constitution, only one official name for the country, and that’s Türkiye Cumhuriyeti. That is literally the only official name. What the presidential decree did, as stated in this article in Hürriyet Daily News, is to give an instruction to Turkish governmental bodies to use the spelling Turkiye in English language communications that they issue - it doesn’t apply to anyone else even under Turkish law. That’s a very limited scope and not the same thing as “official name” in law or the constitution. In comparison the real official name of the country under the constitution is used for all purposes. The presidential decree specifically doesn’t say that “Turkiye” is an official name - and it couldn’t because it would then contradict the constitution which would be unlawful. Wikipedia isn’t a Turkish governmental institution and unless the constitution is changed to adopt a name for the country in English, and Republic of Turkiye is that name, this whole issue is irrelevant to what the “official name” of the country is. DeCausa (talk) 20:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Then the vast majority of countries should not have "official" names. Since this is a dead-end it's time to have an RfC. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:32, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I’m not sure what you mean by that. Most have translations of official names, as does this article. DeCausa (talk) 19:34, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@DeCausa: The Ivory Coast is described in its article as "officially the Republic of Côte d'Ivoire", Taiwan is labelled as "officially the Republic of China (ROC)", so on and so forth. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:39, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Côte d'Ivoire is a special case. As far as the others are concerned, that’s not literally true is it. They’re translations of the official name. Normally, the precise formulation of the translation isn’t in doubt. The “short hand” of “officially” not being strictly correct doesn't normally matter and would be overly pedantic to state “it’s the generally accepted translation of the official name”. Côte d'Ivoire is different. For that there is an “official” translation in Ivorian law. Now compare that to Erdogan’s circular. That literally does not declare that to be “official”. It’s a direction for the spelling to be used in limited specific circumstances. And for Turkiye, because it’s not generally accepted as the translation of the official name, then it’s misleading to call it that. DeCausa (talk) 19:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

"Republic of China" is the translation of 中華民國 in English based on common usage. 中華 does not mean "Taiwan", it means "China". So not a helpful analogy. –Austronesier (talk) 18:33, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Edit request: double word

Could someone with editing privileged please fix the line "Also also it is a member of Erasmus Student Network which is a Europe-wide student organisation which has more than 15.000 volunteers across the Europe." in the Education section. The double "also" is the error. -- ☽☆ NotCharizard (talk) 06:23, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Notcharizard: Fixed  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

RfC on the official name of the country in the lede

Which of the following two should be the article's lede sentence?

1. Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye [ˈtyɾcije]), officially the Republic of Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] )
2. Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye [ˈtyɾcije]), officially the Republic of Türkiye (Turkish: Türkiye Cumhuriyeti [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] )

Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:38, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Poll

• Option 2. The most official name in English is "Türkiye", not "Turkey". WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here because we're discussing what we should describe the official name as, not what we should title or describe the country as in the text. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:38, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
• Option 1 We do not base wikipedia articles off the statements of Turkish state media. The UN still lists Turkey's name as "Turkey" and it is still WP:COMMONNAME so I suggest Option 1 unless there is some sort of official law mandating the change.
• Option 2 The Turkish government is using the name "Republic of Türkiye" and the article should be in line with other articles such as the Ivory Coast with "Republic of Côte d'Ivoire" even if is not the common English name of the country.--Kappasi (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
• Option 2 for neutrality, so that both spellings of the name (Turkey, Türkiye) are represented. Khestwol (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
• Option 1 It’s misleading to say this is a new “official” name. What has happened is much more limited than that. This is Erdogan’s circular of 3 December and this is Hürriyet Daily News’s coverage of it. What the circular actually says is that “Made in Türkiye” should be stamped on exports - that’s the focus of the circular. As far as other usage is concerned, it says “necessary sensitivity will be shown on the use of the phrase ‘Türkiye’ instead of phrases such as ‘Turkey,’ ‘Turkei,’ ‘Turquie’ etc.”. Erdogan doesn’t under the constitution have the power to determine an “official name” for the country and the circular doesn’t claim that this is the official name in English. Some of the Turkish media have got very excited about this and there’s plenty of exaggerated references to an “official name” but I don’t believe any such media coverage is WP:RS for the legal position, which is this is about, per WP:RSCONTEXT. DeCausa (talk) 18:12, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

  Türkiye is used by most government departments now on their official English language websites, not just for products made in Turkey.Kappasi (talk) Kappasi (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

  that doesn’t make it the “official name” and there are departments that don’t use it. DeCausa (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

• Option 1 The official name of the country has not changed. It is still Türkiye Cumhuriyeti. We translate it by its components the way these are translated in common usage: Türkiye → "Turkey" Cumhuriyet → "Republic". The current government has chosen to promote "Turkiye" as translation for Türkiye, and hence "Republic of Türkiye" for Türkiye Cumhuriyeti, but that does not affect the rendering of the official name in WP based on common usage. –Austronesier (talk) 18:30, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
• Option 1. As far as I can tell, Erdogan did not declare "Republic of Türkiye" to be the country's official name. His memo expressed his wish that "Türkiye" be used as the brand of the nation in official publications and communications, mentioning "Made in Türkiye" in particular. No mention of what the official name in English should be. Many sources covering this in the following months have made it clear that this is an ongoing process, including by getting the UN to change the way it refers to the country. No source presented so far has said that this has actually happened. The UN is still using "Republic of Turkey".
  Major Turkish governmental institutions, including its national legislature and highest court, are still prominently using "Turkey", with the Constitutional Court using the full "Republic of Turkey". English language news media is continuing to use "Republic of Turkey" over "of "Türkiye" by about 5:1, according to Google News hits over the past month. Even Turkey's executive branch does not seem to have settled on its final choice. As of February, Erdogan was considering dropping the diacritic mark from the u.
  Nothing official has happened when it comes to "Republic of Türkiye" yet. We'll know when it's official because the whole Turkish government, other nations, intergovernmental organizations, and news media will shift. That has not happened. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:01, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

talk:Kappasi|talk]]) 20:44, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

• that doesn’t make it the “official name” and there are departments that don’t use it. DeCausa (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

• Option 1 for now. As I read from some sources (here, here and here, for instance), Turkey is registering the new name at the UN. I would switch to Option 2 when this registration will become official. P1221 (talk) 07:24, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
• Option 1. Despite "Republic of Türkiye" is currently being used by the top official bodies, it has not been declared as the official name of the country. It is more of a governmental preference than an official name. Nozdref (talk) 11:15, 11 April 2022 (UTC)