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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or - for assistance - at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.
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How often should we link to one and the same author in the reference section? I am always tempted to link them more than once in longer sections: For example, at User:Gun Powder Ma/Roman economy Scheidel, Walter is listed under "Size and structure of the economy" as co-author, under "Demography" as sole author and again at "Further reading" as co-editor. Lo Cascio, Elio is one time co-author and another time sole editor (both under "Size and structure of the economy"). Should I put

  • still only one link to each of them
  • As many links as occurrences (Scheidel 3x, Lo Cascio 2x)
  • as many links as there are subsections or 'author functions' (author, editor)?

Gun Powder Ma (talk) 17:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are no guidelines on this? Gun Powder Ma (talk) 14:53, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OVERLINK is the relevant MOS page. Use your best judgment, it seems. –xenotalk 15:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

National Bridge Inventory inline citations

National Bridge Inventory search (by Alexander Svirsky) allows me to learn details about particular bridges, but there is no apparent way to create inline citations for this information. There are several Schuylkill River bridges without articles that I would like to create. I have photos available. I could look for Philadelphia Inquirer articles at the Free Library of Philadelphia, but I would welcome comments on whether to create the articles as stubs with photos, but no citations. --DThomsen8 (talk) 14:57, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See List of crossings of the Schuylkill River for specific bridges, such as JFK Boulevard bridge.--DThomsen8 (talk) 15:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There's no reason why you can't cite that web site by including the search arguments needed to get to the data. for example,

Svirsky, Alexander. National Bridge Inventory (search for state=Pennsylvania, feature intersected=Schuylkill). Retrieved on July 12, 2010.

Remember that clearly explaining to the reader what the source is is more important that following any strict citation format. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Freely-licensed video of Jimmy Wales ?

Hi everyone!

Is there a freely-licensed video of Jimmy Wales available somewhere? I would like to create a parody. Thank you for your help! --62.167.75.199 (talk) 19:33, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you are creating a parody, you may use almost any video under fair use, depending on what legal jurisdictions are involved. OrangeDog (τ • ε) 22:32, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of 1974 Macropædia articles

What the heck? List of 1974 Macropædia articles has been here for three years, and yet it only covers a list of articles starting with the letter "A"? Is this even a meaningful article for Wikipedia, could it be a copyright violation for listing the volume's table of contents? And the same copyright question and concern as to whether this violates Wikipedia is not a directory applies to its sister article, List of 2007 Macropædia articles. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 21:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tables of contents are unusual in this regard, in that lists of facts are non-copyrightable, but their arrangement is, but only if said arrangement involves some form of artistic judgment. The common interpretation of this principle is that you can't copyright an alphabetical list or phonebook, but you can copyright a list that organizes by quality or whatever. (e.g. listing the names of the cars that were in "The Best Cars of 2008" alphabetically would not be copyvio, but listing them in the same order of rank as the publication could be.) That said, it's a rather pointless article that we probably shouldn't have. Take it to AfD. --erachima talk 23:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
More complex than that. You can't copyright the phone book because it's a complete list. You probably can copyright a list of encyclopedia articles because some creativity went into selecting which subset of posible eneclopedia articles should be written and included in the work.©Geni 01:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have nominated both articles for AfD. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 20:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Medal of Honor

Editorial correction: The Medal of Honor is NEVER "won" or "earned." It is awarded! Every recommendation is very carefully evaluated at many levels in the chain-of-command, and an award is NOT automatic.

George Bleyle Hudson, Ohio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.117.9.87 (talk) 01:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not only the MoH. No military medal of any kind is ever won - ony sports medals are won. Roger (talk) 07:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the Purple Heart more of an "entitlement" than something that you earn for being wounded in combat? –MuZemike 19:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That may be so but it misses the point. No sane person goes into combat thinking "I'm gonna go earn myself a Purple Heart!" It's not something a person strives for like an Olympic medal. Roger (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide-Too much information?

Moved to Talk:Suicide

Is anyone patrolling NewPages?

I just checked Special:Newpages and they are a solid yellow all the way back to June. I have never seen this before. Not even one article patrolled. Does anyone know what is going on? Thank you. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 03:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since you're worried about that, I'll start patrolling! Kayau Voting IS evil 03:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Great spirit! But that doesn't answer my question :) I just know that this solid yellow wall of unpatrolled articles can't be a job for one person. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 03:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Somehow the phenomenon is gone now. I hope it isn't the vector skin acting up. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 03:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is just a big backlog. Last night there were some white lines where patrollers had ben picking out pages to patrol. There are indeed a lot though, and although I'm not a NPP I've been having a go at reducing the list a tiny bit, but new pages are coming in every couple of seconds.--Kudpung (talk) 04:02, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the update. The first time I saw Newpages they were a solid yellow for group of 500 after group of 500 from July all the way to June. But checking again after coming here they looked much better with many white patrolled articles. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 13:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of Wikipedia

Is there any place were you can express some kind of criticism of Wikipedia with some chance of being read ? Ericd (talk) 18:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article, Criticism of Wikipedia, but that is obviously for criticism from the academic community and media, not individual editors. If you have an issue with a specific article or practice here, then the best place to discuss it would be the article's talk page or a relevant project page (e.g. WP:VPP). --erachima talk 18:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Read by whom? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A large audience of Wikipedians willing to improve Wikipedia. Ericd (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose the one of the pumps is as good a place as any. –xenotalk 18:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As a note, the more general your criticism, the less anybody will pay attention to it: It's too easy to say "wikipedia should do X and stop doing Y" - opinions like that are a dime a dozen. Be as specific as possible concerning what you think is wrong and how it could be improved; if possible, lead by example. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
More discussion and less deletion for instance : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record Ericd (talk) 21:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Read references before deleting allegedly unreferenced content. For instance again : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record Ericd (talk) 21:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Less stupid bots : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ericd#File_source_problem_with_File:Test_Black.jpg
Are user pages under the personal responsibility of the user ?

I've been there for long. I've been among the first to provide extensive image credits, I played a major rule in enforcing copyrights and licences here. Is it possible to express some views about the evolution of Wikipedia somewhere ? Ericd (talk) 21:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, if you have a complaint about a guideline/policy the place to talk about it is either the relevant talk page (e.g. this one for the image page rules) or the general policy discussion forum. --erachima talk 21:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You could try Wikipedia Review. –MuZemike 22:00, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if you'll find "a large audience of Wikipedians willing to improve Wikipedia" there. Herostratus (talk) 04:42, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from the occasional mollycoddled wiki-harasser, what you'd actually find at the WR are people that actually do care far more than most here, and have a better handle on what areas need addressing. Tarc (talk) 19:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Spiritual Healing" redirects (here)...

Hello,

On Wikipedia a search for Spiritual Healing gets redirected to Faith Healing. Shamanism seems to be a much better redirect direction. I'm waiting for feedback on an article on Spiritual Healing but in the meantime I hope the redirect can be moved.

Thank you,

Adrian-from-london (talk) 21:49, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shamanism is in the see also section. Either would be an acceptable redirect target, but Faith healing has the more similar name and is therefore the more obvious thing for a searcher for Spiritual healing to be looking for (that wasn't the album). --erachima talk 21:53, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I accept your point about Shamanism being in the see also section but I'd like to include some sort of reference in the context of Spiritual Healing. As there is already a section on Spiritualism could a reference to Shamanism be included there rather than having the term "Shamanism" in the see also section? Perhaps the phrase "Spiritualists may combine faith healing with ..." could be expressed better as "Spiritualists may combine Shamanic healing with ..."? Adrian-from-london (talk) 11:20, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm really not the one to ask about that (though it strikes me as an unusual phrasing to introduce, since Faith healing and Shamanism are overlapping but independent subjects that should not be conflated). You should use Talk:Faith healing to discuss it with other editors. --erachima talk 21:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The abundance of also, in Wikipedia.

First off, let me say sorry if this has been brought up before or if it doesn't belong here. As I look through Wikipedia one thing I am noticing is the over use of the word also, in most cases it can be deleted and still get the same point across as in the the case of my edits in the Eddie Murphy [1] article. I do realize this is a common article to add additional information in a sentence, but it seems to be used too frequently, by editors, to add more information. I am sure there are other cases of extra wordage, this happens to be the one I noticed, more so as a disruption to reading of an article. I am going to try and clear up the ones I notice and thought it may be best to bring it to the attention of some others, to keep an eye out for it.

I doubt we could do anything about it permanently, but more just wanted to get this off my chest and see if I was the only one noticing this. - Mcmatter (talk|contrib) 14:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am looking for some advice on the care and feeding of essays

I am looking for some advice on the care and feeding of essays.

When we have an essay in a subpage, under our main User page, do we have an obligation to place a __NOINDEX__ directive on it? The directive is to prevent search engines from finding rough drafts, or pages of notes, that aren't wikipedia articles, and presenting them to web searchers in a way that might fool them into thinking they were going to a wikipedia article, that met our standard for notability, reliability, etc.

But we want our essags to be read widely, so perhaps the {{noindex}} directive is not appropriate?

How does an essay get promoted from being a User-space essay to a wikipedia-space essay? Is there some kind of review, prior to moving it the wikipedia name space? Is there a template to add to an essay, requesting comments, or requesting review, prior to moving it to the wikipedia name space?

I have encountered a disturbing phenomenon -- some contributors have drafted essays, placed them in the wikipedia hame space, and then routinely cite them in ways that imply the essay is an actual wikipedia policy, and without acknowledging that they were the essays authors. What response do others recommend when one notices a contributor citing their own essay as if it were a policy?

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 13:17, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't think one has to actually get an essay under review before moving to the project namespace. There's an awesome one about citing but Uncle G but he never moved it to the project-space. On the other hand, a lot of project-space essays like don't leave giant gaps between sections are not of particularly high quality but still managed to stay in the project-space. Kayau Voting IS evil 14:12, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • (You're thinking of User:Uncle G/On sources and content, yes?) There are lots of useful pages in user space that aren't in project space ranging from User:Dpbsmith/BEEFSTEW to User:Raul654/Raul's laws. By concidence, I was reading User:Tony1/How to improve your writing just now (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fashion faux pas for why). It's not just me alone. It's far from just me. (BEEFSTEW, for example, was the focus of much attention some years ago when there was massive factionalism over articles on schools. It's an example of this situation in action, indeed. People linked to it as a shorthand.) It's worth remembering, by the way, that the project namespace is not the policy namespace. Uncle G (talk) 17:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • One can write an essay directly in Wikipedia space if one wants to. It had better be fairly good, or all it'll do is make oneself look stupid. As to "What response do others recommend when one notices a contributor citing their own essay as if it were a policy?" - public ridicule works sometimes. You can nominate any essay for deletion via WP:MFD if you want to; if someone is being annoying with it, or if it's just substandard, you probably should. Herostratus (talk) 04:38, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • If someone is "being annoying" by linking to a page that xe wrote as an explanation for and expansion upon xyr discussion contributions, nominating it for deletion has proven, time and again, to be a particularly foolish, childish, and petty thing to do. See Wikipedia:Don't be quick to assume that someone is a sockpuppet (MfD discussion) for a far better approach to that sort of thing, in action. Uncle G (talk) 15:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'm not talking about essays in user space, but in Wikipedia space. I do not agree that one should be able to place an essay in Wikipedia space and have it not eligible to be challenged. The MfD and following discussion that you cite does not at all strike me as any of foolish, childish, or petty. Are we not allowed to have these discussions? Herostratus (talk) 01:28, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • Read again. The page that I pointed to was an example of how to address essays in a way that isn't foolish, childish, and petty. Look closely at what actually happened in that case. There are, of course, many cases in MFD of people nominating pages for deletion solely because they disagree with the contents, and many MFD discussions full of "speedy keep" arguments as a result. Did you not realize that there's a long history behind the advice at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion#Before nominating a page for deletion? It's the fact that people tried to abuse MFD as a big hammer for forcibly winning arguments about guidelines, policies, and essays. It's happened again and again, and it's been an example of such foolishness and pettiness time after time. MFD is no more a hammer than AFD is. Uncle G (talk) 01:52, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good place to discuss usage question?

Hi. This isn't the question, it's the meta-question! I didn't want to ask it till I was sure I was in the right place, so I'd appreciate your advice. I want to ask a question about a usage, almost a spelling thing really. Suppose (bad example coming up)there were hundreds of pages on Wikipedia that referred to "ice creme" and I was pretty sure it should be "ice cream". Not sure enough just to be completely bold and do them all - if I were 100% sure then yes, I would just get stuck into it. It's not as far as I know an AmE/BrE thing - I mean, to be honest, I think it's just a right/wrong thing but I do want to check what others think before I launch into some kind of crusade. It's not specific to one article so I can't ask there - it's scattered all over the encyclopaedia. It's also not a word that is always wrong - just usually, or in my view anyway! Where, do you think, is the best place - Pump or otherwise - to ask this question? Thanks in advance for your help and best wishes, DBaK (talk) 22:22, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If it were a question not related to Wikipedia editing, I'd point you to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language, which may not be a bad idea anyway. But for an on-wiki issue of that nature, this is as good a place as any. Anomie⚔ 00:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much DBaK (talk) 01:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So what's the word? Puggery? Cantiflas? Aglet? I'm dying to know. There must be a bot for simple word replacement, right? Herostratus (talk) 04:27, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please see below: Usage: "habitants" vs "inhabitants". Thanks! (PS Sorry to disappoint with less interesting words than puggery, cantiflas and aglet.) DBaK (talk) 13:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The "ice creme/cream" example is exactly what's going on with capitalization in bird, dog, and horse articles. Some editors insist on capitalizing every single goddamn breed name. The ornithologists are the worst, but the other two aren't going down without a fight. I'm trying to help out with the dog articles; I at least know some about what names to capitalize. The MoS guidelines aren't clear on that, although English (outside of ornithologists, kennel clubs, and equestrian clubs (whatever the hell they're called, I honestly don't give a damn)) would not capitalize non-proper noun breed names (Jack Russell terrier, but not bloodhound), and a few proper nouns aren't even capitalized (chihuahua). I know this is correct, and I'm not the only one; however, the people at these articles attempt to (and in the bird articles have succeeded so far) in forcing their colloquial capitalization on here.
This seems as good a place as any to have that sort of discussion, especially if it doesn't fit into a specific guideline (my example would fall under MoS, except that they are intent on handwringing; however, I want this discussion to stick with the original question). It's a high-visibility place, and it could bring out change quicker and end up generating fewer entries on WP:LAME. But that's just my thought. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 05:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your thought, and sorry to hear of your Woes With Capitalization. I hate Excessive Capitalization, which I think Makes Everything Look like a Victorian Concert Programme. Good luck. For my query, please see Usage: "habitants" vs "inhabitants" below. Thanks! DBaK (talk) 13:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Read WP:MODLANG; it's primary author makes the exact same point you do about Victorian-style capitalization. I find it exceedingly annoying. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 17:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Usage: "habitants" vs "inhabitants"

I believe that most (though not all) uses of the word "habitants" on Wikipedia are wrong, and that it should usually be "inhabitants".

See this for a search.

I'm not talking about specialist uses like Habitants, obviously, nor where it pops up in, say, Victorin Lurel to tell us that he was "born 20 August 1951 in Vieux-Habitants". clearly those are fair enough anyway and I wouldn't be going near them.

My concern is with places such as Safané Department where we read that Safané has 7,502 habitants, Banga has 374 and so on. To me this just sounds wrong and I think it should be "inhabitants". What do you think?

I went through something similar - though not exactly the same - over "habited" and "inhabited" and there was able to consult my favourite linguist who assured me that my view was OK whether you're working in AmE or BrE. (She's an AmE speaker living in the UK!) However I don't feel I can impose on her goodwill for a second doubt-bout. I do not think that this is an AmE/BrE issue, but could of course be wrong. I am tempted to simply be bold and just get on with it, but it would be a bit embarrassing if I were missing the point. If it were a real point, anyway ...

What I think might be clouding the situation is that "habitants" is fine in French and that some, at least, of the articles that concern me are I believe of Francophone origin. What I am interested in is getting a clear view (if possible) of what people think the mainstream current usage is. I am wildly uninterested in hearing about what was current in 1783 or what might be argued under some circumstances to be an appropriate specialized usage: I just want what people - native-fluency English-speakers - normally say and sounds right to them. Certainly from my own experience of speaking and writing English for a few decades "habitants" simply sounds wrong ... I'd be very pleased to hear others' views, especially supported by evidence, were that possible. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be inclined to agree with you; outside of quotes and other specific-type situations, usually you'd say something like, "Barentsburg has approximately 900 inhabitants", not "Barentsberg has 900 habitants". Habitants is not a commonly used word outside of domestic situations (a married couple would usually be "co-habitants", and other such things), so inhabitants would seem to be the right word. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 17:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've never even heard of the word "habitants". Thenormal English word is "inhabitants", period, and if you made this change I can't imagine any serious opposition. (Incidentally, according to Wiktionary], the word "habitant" is pejorative, in Quebec, which would be another reason not to use that word.) Herostratus (talk) 01:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both very much for the replies. They are pretty much in line with what I have thought and I am relieved that (so far) no-one has emerged to say "Good Heavens man, how can you possibly have reached your great age without encountering this utterly common usage and here are 73 credible examples, to boot." On the French-Canadian usage, Habitants is certainly interesting but of course not directly relevant to this question. I feel increasingly certain that it's an error in the particular cases which I'm addressing. Interestingly some of them are demonstrably translations of articles from other-language wikipedias (for example, a place where [other] French text actually survived untranslated into the English version) and on many of the pages of concern if you click the interlanguage links you find that in the other languages "habitants", or something very close to it, is normal - that is, English is unusual in having the "in-". I know from my other researches that this "in-" can cause confusion (habited, inhabited, uninhabited) and I suspect that this, coupled with with a non-English-first-language editor having a valiant go, may lead to this usage which I increasingly feel is less likely to be interesting, unusual, a different dialect etc and more likely to be, er, wrong. I'll give it a few days before I really try to draw a conclusion but that's the way I feel things are looking right now. Thanks again, best wishes, DBaK (talk) 09:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
See wikt:habitant. This word can be used to mean inhabitant, but is rarely encountered compared to the latter. I'd prefer to stick with the far more common inhabitant. Dcoetzee 12:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and thank you very much. DBaK (talk) 16:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

However, if the article is about the Montreal Canadians, all bets are off! [2] - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, and thank you, but it does mention legitimate uses, and my obvious intent to go nowhere near them, several times above. Best wishes, DBaK (talk) 16:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Call for applications for Checkuser or Oversight permissions

The Arbitration Committee invites applications for Checkuser or Oversight permissions effective with the posting of this motion. The application period will close at 2359 hours UTC on 1 August 2010. For this round of appointments, only administrators will be considered. Candidates who ran in the May 2010 elections are encouraged to apply for consideration in this round of appointments. Administrators who applied for permissions in the round leading to the May 2010 election may email the Committee at arbcom.privileges@wikipedia.org by the close of the application period, expressing continued interest and updating their prior responses or providing additional information. New applicants must email the Committee at arbcom.privileges@wikipedia.org by 30 July 2010 to obtain a questionnaire to complete; this questionnaire must be returned by the close of the application period on 1 August 2010. The Arbitration Committee will review the applications and, on 13 August 2010, the names of all candidates being actively considered for appointment will be posted on-wiki in advance of any selection. The community may comment on these candidates until 2359 on 22 August 2010.

For the Arbitration Committee, NW (Talk) 17:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss this

New chart tool on toolserver

Hi,

The Visualizer for Wikimedia projects is in production on the toolserver. It generates a chart with the data published on a wikipage. See also this diff for a concrete Wikimedian usage. Cheers, --almaghi (talk) 19:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Could not get contents from MediaWiki api on secure.wikimedia.org/w/api.php.. –xenotalk 19:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How did you get this? Could you eventually retry? Thanks, --almaghi (talk) 19:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC) What url[reply]
It is because when logged into the secure server {{visualizer}} passes "&project={{SERVERNAME}}"</tt> (resulting in "&project=secure.wikimedia.org") when it should (probably?) pass "&project=en.wikipedia.org" –xenotalk 19:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thank you very much for your report, you're right it should pass "&project=en.wikipedia.org" . Is secure.wikimedia.org an alias of en.wikipedia.org ? How to handle this with other projects secure servers? --almaghi (talk) 19:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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