User talk:Paralympiakos

Gegard Mousasi's nationality

Hello

Could you stop changing Gegard Mousasi's nationality to Armenian? If you've ever watched him fight, you'd see that he is representing The Netherlands. They even played the Dutch national anthem for him during his Light Heavyweight title fight a couple of days in Dream 16. He's ethnicity might be Armenian, but he is fighting out of/representing the Netherlands and that should also be the nationality represented in Wikipedia. For example, Giorgio Petrosyan is also ethnic Armenian, but he's fighting out of Italy due to his Italian nationality. An ethnicity is not a nationality, Gegard Mousasi has a Dutch nationality and that flag is portrayed in his every fight, therefore I am changing all of them back to Dutch, which is the correct one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doku1 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No, you're not going to. He was born in Armenia, to Armenian parents. He's Armenian, with Dutch citizenship, nothing more. Paralympiakos (talk) 20:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Watch his fight, read any of his biography at Strikeforce/Dream. Stop reverting it back to Armenian. I know that he is born to Armenian parents. That DOES NOT mean he is fighting out of Armenia. Stop being childish.

Doku1 (talk) 20:52, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

He's fighting out of the Netherlands, but it's not his nationality! The flag represents his nationality, not country of residence. Paralympiakos (talk) 20:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Look at Dream 16 and any other Dream please. He is ethnic Armenian, but he is fighting out of the Netherlands. The Dutch National anthem is being played during the Mizuno fight, and you are still reverting it back to Armenian. He is representing the Netherlands, simply put. That does not mean he isn't Armenian, look at Kenny Florian, he has Peruvian parents, he doesn't have a Peru flag on his fights. Stop undoing for Gods sake and watch a Mousasi fight before trying to make a pointless discussion.

Doku1 (talk)

I've watched plenty of his fights thank you. Let me ask this....is Brad Pickett American because he fights out of ATT? Paralympiakos (talk) 21:04, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

hey bud, im on your side regarding the Gegard Mousasi issue. he is Armenian. 207.246.169.110 (talk) 00:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks, but it doesn't really matter now. I'm not risking edit warring with that other person. They're clearly wrong, but won't take no for an answer, nor discuss it. The blanket revert was best at first, but I'm just going to leave it now. Unfortunately, the actions of the few ruin it for the majority. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sean Sherk

Please mind the WP:3RR. -- Tom N (tcncv) talk/contrib 01:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Sean Sherk#Suggested wording for September 25 results and discuss the matter there. Thank you. -- Tom N (tcncv) talk/contrib 01:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

3RR doesn't count when it's reverting after vandalism. The IP is purely troublemaking, inserting NPOV and removing sources without explanation. I'm justified. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:22, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

30 Sept DYK

Hi Paralympiakos, firstly in case you missed it, I posted this earlier today, bare minutes before someone else posted. Secondly, re you Sept 30 DYK nom, you might want to check the hook as the bolded article links to an article for a dead guy. Him fighting would thus be challenging. EdChem (talk) 04:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Arrgggh! Can't believe I missed that one. Cheers. As for that hook, I'm still doing a little research before committing to it. I just want to find reliable sources for each of them before creating their articles. I have a feeling that most of them would pass our MMA notability rules, but I just want to make sure. It's frustrating when hours of work are turned into deleted edits. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:24, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The original hook suggestion

FAO Ed, since I archived a lot of my talk page, here is the suggested hook you came up with:

... that M-1 Global's Eastern European Champions Artiom Damkovsky, Magomed Sultanakhmedov and Kenny Garner will face their Western European Champion counterparts Mairbek Taisumov, Rafał Moks and Guram Gugenishvili for the lightweight, middleweight and heavyweight division championships (respectively) in mixed martial arts today in St. Petersburg? Paralympiakos (talk) 13:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

We have a replacement fighter; also a redlink. So far, our drafts are: User:Paralympiakos/Guram Gugenishvili and User:Paralympiakos/Magomed Sultanakhmedov. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Pablo Garza (fighter)

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Please use rollback only when appropriate

Hello Paralympiakos. I think you just used rollback here. I would like to remind you that rollback is only to be used in cases of vandalism; clearly there was no intent to vandalize in this case. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 01:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Rollback may be used when it is self-explanatory and there is no need to explain the change. Incorrectly formatted image is that very case. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:57, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, first of all, that's not correct. WP:ROLLBACK: "Constructive or well-intentioned changes should not be reverted without an explanatory summary, as it is impolite to the author of those changes." You should assume that that edit was well-intentioned. You didn't leave an edit summary, and you didn't explain to the user what they did wrong (it was their very first edit). I left them a welcome template, which is a more productive way to help new editors. Again, I urge you to look carefully at the rules for using rollback. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 02:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to say the same to you; you are wrong.....and I quote ""Rollback" links should be used only when the reason for reversion is immediately clear" - that would be this. Anyone who sees that incorrect image tag would immediately know that a rollback is the clearing up of that. If you disagree, go take it up with those that wrote the rollback summary (to get the rules clarified), as I'm going off what the rules are and I'm justified in what I did. Since we're lecturing, I would say to you that you shouldn't swear in your edit summaries. Goodnight. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:04, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe that's correct. Please see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#When_to_use_rollback, where I have asked editors more knowledgeable than myself to weigh in. If I am wrong, I gladly stand corrected and you have my apologies. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

If it wasn't correct, it wouldn't be in there!

• You neglected to emntion the second half of that sentence, which says "for example, reverting obvious vandalism or undoing one's own edits." Given this and the examples of use cited by Drmies, which are questionable at best, I have removed the permission from you. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:26, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey Para, a suggestion to make reverting vandalism easier without rollback privileges is WP:Twinkle. It's what I've been using all this time. After having been granted rollback without requesting it, I struggle to find how it is better than Twinkle. I'd hate to see you quit attempting to revert vandalism because I know it's a pain without a good tool to do it with. --TreyGeek (talk) 05:13, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? What a joke! I'm playing by the rules. HJ, the sentence you've just quoted says "FOR EXAMPLE". That doesn't mean it's limited to that. What I did was self-explanatory and well within the rules, so restore the right now, please. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:27, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

In response to you, Trey, I tried twinkle, but it's a horrible tool. It requires Firefox, which I don't use regularly and every time I used it, it opened up new windows, which was a pain.

I can't believe the grassing nature of this place though. Instead of focusing on editors who are doing a good job, just because I'm not "using rollback right", go and sort out the damaging vandals. I was warranted in what I did and a few of those edits quoted as ANI as ridiculous and they are obvious vandalism. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:37, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Paralympiakos, some observations I have made about rollback (noting I've never used it):

• using it for anything but blatant vandalism is risky, irrespective of what the documentation says
• if an admin misuses it, they get told "bad admin" and have a finger waved at them
• if an accusation of editor misuse is raised, having an admin unilaterally remove it is highly likely
• I believe that the disparity is much more about admin power than anything else - it is a classic example of why WP:NOBIGDEAL is of questionable credibility
• consequently, whether any of the points you are making are right or not, you're going to lose this one
• when you ultimately get it back, only use it in cases of blatant bad faith vandalism
• when you become an admin, you can go back to doing what you've been doing and likely nothing will happen
• If you haven't read it before, look at WP:RANDY and see why experts get treated like shit. The same is true for experienced users v. newbies... there are many admins who will shit all over you if you bite a newbie, and won't care about the value of your contributions. The "potential" of a newbie will be seen as more important than your 12 000 edits. Unfortunately, this is just the way things are.  :( EdChem (talk) 15:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm using Twinkle with Chrome without any real problems. The popup windows are there to help you provide warnings to those whose edits you just reverted. That feature can also be turned off as Twinkle is highly configurable, IMO. As I said, just tossing an alternative option out there for you. --TreyGeek (talk) 16:24, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

In response to Ed, you may noticed that I've made few article edits today as a result of this. Already, there's a backlog of vandalism and it would take an age for me to sift through it manually, without rollback, so I'm not even going to bother. I don't see why I should go through a year of vandalism patrol, article creation etc just to get treated like shit for a simple mistake (one that was done in perfectly innocent faith). I think your points are excellent and now I'm going to see what happens to the MMA project without me for the next few days. Things would have been different if I'd just been told about where I was going wrong. As you and Trey know, I make mistakes on a semi-regular occurrence, but that doesn't mean it's done on purpose. The rollback should have never been taken away in the first place and until it is restored, my faith/contributions in/to this place will be lowered. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:43, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Sad to see you are disillusioned with Wikipedia, it seems to happen to alot of editors at some point or other. I know that mistakes happen, and supposedly no one is expected to be perfect, but wikipedia is a place where established editors get treated badly on a distressingly regular basis. Unfortunately, there is a colossal double standard in the treatment of admins and 'regular' editors, and it will take significant cultural change before that is rectified. I hope you will decide to continue contributing. I will be working on our joint DYK (I've been doing easier stuff lately, my stress levels are elevated). Try not to take what has happened personally, and remember what you have accomplished. Take care. EdChem (talk) 01:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, don't worry about the DYK, I'm still going to be around to work on that with you. It's just for now, I can't be bothered going through the backlog of vandalism and "porly ritten sentances". Reading the last message back seems like an ultimatum, which was unintentional. I'm just going easy on my contributions until I've had chance to cool down a bit. That way I can't possibly get myself into trouble accidentally again. Have you done anything so far with our DYK then? Paralympiakos (talk) 11:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to see this but it is completely understandable. Frustrating to see when admins invoke WP:DGAF to try to tell you that you shouldn't care about being mistreated. The idea that there is a person worthy of fair treatment behind a user name just doesn't compute for some wikipedians, and that is a tragedy. Makes me wonder how they behave in "real life". Anyway... I've had some discussions at the disambiguation project, and tried to sort out things I've done – let's say my reception wasn't as positive as I'd hoped. I've also had more health issues, culminating (I think) with a vasovegal issue tonight (I avoided collapsing this time) so I forsee more medical tests in the near future (oh joy!). Hence, I haven't done anything for the DYK beyond watchlisting the page you started. I've been trying to do things that don't require a lot of attention and thought, basically staying within my limitations at the moment. Sorry I haven't been commenting on the Rollback thing, I don't have the strength for dealing with conflict at the moment. I will get to it, though - I promise. EdChem (talk) 15:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

To be honest Ed, the only difference now is that it's official for those admins to see. I'm just making it clear that I'm done with the issue. I wasn't getting anywhere and they were accusing me of allsorts, so that was just a measure of finality. As I've said before, I'm going to leave the MMA project to be hit badly. I'm trying not to be arrogant with this statement, but without me, the project would suffer. Already, there's a few dozen cases that have gone untreated and I'm just not going to do it. I don't have rollback and I'm leaving editing for a few days. All I'll be doing now is cleanup to UFC 120 - since I'm going to that event and it means something to me - and our DYK.

I think it's amusing that I'm being told "not to give a fuck" by admins. Firstly, I don't think admins should be swearing. I put "removing bullshit" in an edit summary a long time ago and I got slapped on the wrist for it, yet it's ok for admins to do it, just because it's a WP:essay. However, I also think DGAF is rather hypocritical when this is regarded as WP:NPA. I thought we weren't supposed "to give a f**k".....so why is that message regarded as a personal attack (when it's clearly not) and why do the admins care? That's a joke.

Another thing is my apparent "aggression". I know it's "teh intarwebz" where mood is hard to interpret, but there's zero aggression in my messages to these admins at all. If anything, I'm smiling whilst typing, as I can't believe that so many admins would act this way. I understand that can seen as me vs. many, therefore I must be wrong, but at the end of the day, they've all made mistakes and have likely not been punished for it. Look at one of HJs barnstars; it's for improving after many admin mistakes. Why wasn't his admin right taken away, yet my rollback was? Mad.

Anyway, don't bother getting involved with the rollback issue. I appreciate the concern and that you're looking out for me, but I'm dropping the issue and it's best if you don't incur the wrath/aggression/insults of the admins. I hope you get in better shape though! Your situation sucks big time! Just take it easy and get back to me on the DYK when you're up for it. We've got until the 28th (maybe a few days before to avoiding pushing in, in the queue). Paralympiakos (talk) 18:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Sean McCorkle

Please make an article for UFC's new heavyweight, Sean McCorkle. I know it's probably on your list, but I thought I'd ask. Anyway, I think you could make a really good article on the guy, I mean, just look at all his interviews, he's great! ahaha RapidSpin33 (talk) 00:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Lol. Erm.....check my contribs. It's a poor start, but I'll be getting down to the more intricate stuff soon. Paralympiakos (talk) 08:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you could, look at possibly editing Luiz Azeredo. :) RapidSpin33 (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Recent actions

Can you please discuss with me first before charging in making these changes? It may be an essay, but it's the done thing, as discussed with admins prior. Please do not interfere in what has been passed down. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Unlike policies and guidelines, usually no formal attempt to judge the community's support for the essay's content has been made According to the essay in WP:ESSAYS. If it is not a rule I should not give you a reason for do what I do. Furthermore biographyes are not redirected to Soccer or Music. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 00:17, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but that's thrown out of the window when that was the action/instruction etc given out by admin after discussions. This is what is done throughout the MMA project and it doesn't need someone charging in, changing that. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

given out by admin after discussions -> As I said before essay is not a rule. When WP:MMANOT became a policy, that must be redirected to Wikipedia:Notability (sports), you are free to argue. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 00:23, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Very smart. The second sentence, however, I do not understand. I think there may be a typo in there or something. Just leave it be please. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Jim Wallhead

The article Jim Wallhead you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Jim Wallhead for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Aaron north (talk) 23:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

97.86.80.130 "vandalism"

Hi. Are you sure these edits^[1][2][3] you reported as vandalism^[4] really are that and not good faith editing?

Thanks, --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Please take a look at:

• User talk:97.86.80.130#Erroneous block?
• Wikipedia:Blocking IP addresses#Shared and dynamic IP addresses

• That IP has accumulated many warnings but that doesn't mean today's user is a vandal.

• Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule
• Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers

• Every IP is potentially a newcomer.

• Wikipedia:Vandalism#What is not vandalism

I note that Dan Severn, Bas Rutten, Heath Herring and Christian Morecraft are all names of actual fighters. I don't know much about mixed martial arts but I am concerned that this anonymous editor may have been trying to make legitimate edits. Even if they're incorrect, if they were made in good faith, that's not vandalism.

I am not writing this to chew you out -- if you made a mistake here, then I made an even worse one by blocking this IP. Admins are rightfully held to a higher standard of care than regular editors, especially with behavioural issues on Wikipedia.

I don't know this topic like you do. Please look into this ASAP and let me know what the story is. If there's more to the story than I've laid out, then let me know that, too.

Thanks. If I've made a mistake, I want to make it right. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:37, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

PS, to keep the conversation from fragmenting across talk pages, please reply here; I'll be watching this page.

This is one where you'll have to take my comments on good faith. For the record, I'm aware of all of the rules and policies regarding vandalism (and about not fracturing talk page comments (see the top of my talk page)). Dan Severn hasn't competed at the top level in several years; he is 52. Kimbo Slice is an internet freak-show and was released (therefore cannot compete for the UFC because he isn't under contract). Herring is retired and Morecraft is a strange one. Not sure why they plucked that name out.

You're just going to have to trust me, it was IP vandalism and completely ludicrous. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:53, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks! --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

PS, for anyone else reading this, see:[5][6] --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:24, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm just curious, what is this? I've clicked it and it has just gone to the google page for Dan Severn. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

In case anyone ever comes back and tries to make the case you were "BITEy" in this incident, those are links to Google News searches (both current and archival) showing zero overlap between UFC 126 and any of those four fighters, corroborating your assertion. I did this because you have a userbox indicating your interest in becoming an admin some day. People look at candidates' user talk pages for signs an RfA candidate might be overly aggressive and BITEy as an admin. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:01, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, ok. Well thank you for the consideration then! To be honest, it's going to be at least 6-8 months before I consider standing. I've been on the wrong side of a few admins accidentally these past couple of months, so I'm attempting to rebuild my reputation slowly and quietly. I really hope I didn't come across BITEy; it's just that as an MMA fan, I can spot a hoax a mile off and frankly it is vandalism (and has to be dealt with to prevent re-occurrence). The unfortunate thing is when admins such as yourself (who are totally justified in querying me if they feel the need, as you did) don't know the ins and outs of the sport and believe that some IP edits are plausible, when I know for a fact that they are not. It's difficult being involved in such a specialist subject as mixed martial arts. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

When in doubt, wait on your RfA. I did. See my comment to question 3 at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/A. B.#Questions for the candidate -- I think this reassured some folks. This incident will most definitely come up, which is why I took real pains with my comments above.

As for these hard to prove-as-vandalism edits, I suggest you add a link to a Google News search or a fighter's web site to reinforce your complaint. Also, you would have been better off had you reported it to Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring where admins will hopefully take more time to investigate the content of the edits. Don't rely on "trust me" comments like you gave above; admins may trust your good faith while still worrying about your making a mistake, or worse, their making a mistake.

This is the first time in almost 3 years as an admin that I've worked WP:AIV. I spend much more time with complex spam at WT:WPSPAM than I do with vandalism. I find regular editors and admins are usually unfamiliar with the patterns of persistent and sophisticated spammers that cover their tracks; sometimes they're wary of anti-spam volunteers and accuse us of being BITEy or of being "link-Nazis" when they're just unable to see the spam patterns we see. I've learned from experience that the system of escalating warnings at Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace serve as something of safe harbour for an editor or admin; if you take the time to work through the sequence, it's hard to accuse you of bad faith. It's worth doing even if you just know the guy's going to ignore all 4 warnings and you just want to cut to the chase and be done with him.

Also, if the same guy starts over with a new IP or account making the same edits, be sure to point that out to admins and in your user talk page warnings -- that can be grounds for accelerating the 4-warning sequence. Here's an example of the same guy using 2 IPs on the Iron Chef article:^[7] Special:Contributions/198.164.153.61 and Special:Contributions/156.34.155.38. An additional clue is that when you use the Traceroute, Geolocate and/or Whois links (at the bottom of IP talk and contribution pages) and find the IPs are editing in the same area (New Brunswick, Canada in this case).

If in doubt, engage the IP or new editor in good faith first. You can always ratchet up the heat later. For instance, you could have reverted that IP and left a note on the talk page telling him you could find no evidence any of those fighters were entering the UFC 126. Tell him he needs to document the claim before adding it back. Life's short, so you can always do this with the {{Uw-unsourced1}}/{{Uw-unsourced2}}/{{Uw-unsourced3}}/etc. or {{Uw-error1}}/{{Uw-error2}}/{{Uw-error3}}/etc. sequences of templates. Just like the uw-test sequence, these sequences lead ultimately to a final warning in this case using the {{uw-generic4}} template.

I hope this is useful. Regards, --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:50, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Lolohea Mahe

i am the person who took the actual picture when he fought for me, so YES i am using my original work. and he is tongan. i know the strikeforce interview says he is samoan but alot of people think tongans and samoans are the same when they are not. people assume he is samoan. why do you think his nickname is "tongan warrior" ?????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntaufaao (talk • contribs) 10:28, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I've never heard of that nickname. If that picture is your own, then upload the original, not an edited version. The metadata shows you've used an editing program for the image, but if you upload the original, we will have proof it IS your image. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

the original file is huge, is that ok? I will gladly upload it. As for lolohea being tongan, would you like a link to his video interview where he says he is tongan? Or i can zoom in on the huge tattoo on his stomach that says in big letters TONGAN.

Source: strikeforce mma, its in the first line or two of the article and says TONGAN WARRIOR http://strikeforce.com/news/2010/03/strikeforce-challengers-7-preview/ http://www.mma-core.com/fighters/_Lolohea_Tongan_Warrior_Mahe?fid=124194 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.232.40 (talk) 19:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'm happy with the Tongan stuff and his nickname. Try to understand, it's difficult to believe a random person over a reliable source. Also, upload that file as soon as you can and it will be perfectly allowed, should the metadata prove it's legally your photo. Please link the photo to me as soon as you've done it. Thank you. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:29, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sean McCorkle

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Mark Scanlon (fighter)

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:03, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK

Hi Paralympiakos... I have finished and referenced all the career tables. I've also noted on my web page the number of bytes we've each added to each page, just so we know that we've both made a substantial contribution for both getting credit - not sure if this is checked, but I think we should cover the bases. I figure we want to move them to article space in about two days - does that seem about right to you? Thanks for the drafting you have done so far. I plan to do some copy-editing and expanding tomorrow, depending on what I can find.  :) EdChem (talk) 12:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Hah! That was good timing! Just as I saw that addition to your userspace, you sent me this message! Yeah, I'm happy to move in two days. What I'll do tonight is the detail for Garner, so that I have at least contributed to that article. I figure that should put us about even. I was going to suggest tomorrow that we hurry this up too as we're getting close to the limit. I've even got another timed one in Tesanovic for the 29th, so we may need to discuss what time we want this DYK to go live. In all honesty, I haven't a clue what time these fights take place live. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Wiki Cookies

		Cookies!
		You must be hungry after all the work... have some cookies! EdChem (talk) 04:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

PS: I've posted my plans at my talk page, which I think you noticed before I managed to find the cookies template. It was great to collaborate, I would enjoy working with you again some time in the future. EdChem (talk) 04:06, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

There's the Welterweight and Light Heavyweight title fights in M-1 to come in November ;)

I'm going to get some sleep in a little bit, so I'll talk to you in slightly more depth in the morning. Paralympiakos (talk) 04:08, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

HELP!! I'm trying to figure out the Western Europe Heavyweight Championship. This seems to put Guram as Eastern Europe champion. This has both Guram and Grishin as Eastern Europe champions. Are you sure Gugenishvili is Western Europe champion? Me = confused. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 06:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

This is what I love about the M-1 organisation. They are frankly, a farce. They've screwed up so much of the sport by holding one of the top fighters ransom. They have very entertaining fights, but goodness me, that is not how a company should be run. For some ridiculous reason, Guram Gugenishvili, a Ukrainian, won the WESTERN tournament AT the Eastern event. Absolutely stupid. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:30, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and this page is one of the few with legitimacy. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I figured some of it out once I read your Guram article, but it still strikes me as weird. I have now taken three of the six pages to article space, moving on to the others. I'm glad you liked Grishin and the Garner changes - and don't worry, a lede section is easy to overlook! :) EdChem (talk) 13:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I just figure they ran out of legitimate fighters for the west section and shoehorned some Russians and Ukrainians in there. For example, there are some proper Westerners like Lloveras and Moks (Spanish and Polish), but then we've got Taisumov and Gugen (Russian and Ukrainian). Silly company. Paralympiakos (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

The nomination: Template talk:Did you know#For October 28. I still need to do more copy editing on the last article (Magomed Sultanakhmedov) but I am too tired to do it correctly at the moment, and I wanted to get the nomination posted. It is good enough to pass DYK, though not as polished as the other 5 articles. You may want to add your own comments to what I have said. You can also see that I have added the DYKmake templates so we should both be credited for all 6 articles - assuming the hook is approved, of course. Cheers. EdChem (talk) 17:08, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

 Done All done, IMO. :) You think any of these might be GA-able? EdChem (talk) 04:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

PS: You can request deletion of the redirect pages now in your user space by adding {{db-u1}} tags to them, I have already done this for mine. The history all went with the articles when I moved them to article space. EdChem (talk) 05:18, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, great. I'll get onto the tagging later. As for GAing, I was going to leave after you told me a while back that you were stressed from the problems of GA. We could give it a go though if you like. My only concern is the lack of images. How many/which were you thinking of listing? Paralympiakos (talk) 08:54, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok. As far as GA goes, I was asking for your advice... do you think any of these are suitable? You know far better than I whether an MMA bio has sufficient content etc to meet the GA standard in the area. Obviously they will all need updating once the championship results are known, and details on the bouts added. I guess it is just something for you to consider. I do have another article up for GA review at the moment (Hans Freeman), but the review may not even start for a month. I am also toying with nominating rhodocene for FA, but that just may indicate that I am certifiably insane. I am proud of what we have achieved in our collaboration, but I don't know if the products meet GA standards; the idea of the other two championship bouts for november is interesting (assuming the fighters don't already have wiki-bios). By the way, I tagged all our articles as start class simply because DYK's aren't supposed to be classified as stubs, and they certainly aren't stubs anyway. I don't know whether an objective assessment would class them as start or C or B class. EdChem (talk) 11:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Given that I've only dealt with getting Jim Wallhead to GA status, I don't particularly know. However, I've got The Ultimate Fighter, Court McGee, Sako Chivitchian and Michael Johnson (fighter) up for GAN. I'd say our 6 definitely equal the latter two in that list. I'd be happy if you put those 6 (or any number of them) up for GA, because even so, it'll be about 2-3 months before they're looked at. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Dragan Tešanović

Hello! Your submission of Dragan Tešanović at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

FYI, I noticed the problem at T:TDYK when I checked our multi-hook nom, and I think the changes I've made should address the problems at Dragan Tešanović. :) EdChem (talk) 07:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dragan Tešanović

Courcelles 18:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Good catch

[8] – looks like I made a bit of a rooster up there... oops! EdChem (talk) 11:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

We all make mistakes, so don't worry about it. At least it was caught before having to get admins involved once it was in the queue. Goodness knows I've messed admins around enough lately. I got them to move a hook out of one queue and into another, thinking they'd put it in the wrong one. Turns out it was my eyesight, having just woken up. Excellent work with the DYK anyway! Really appreciate all your efforts. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Has there been a public statement as to why the Moks title bout was postponed to M-1 Challenge XXII? Any RS on the subject? EdChem (talk) 12:20, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Nothing I'm yet to discover. It caught me by surprise on the day of the event. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You may have noticed my expansion of 2010 M-1 Challenge Season. I have written a detailed description of the championship bouts (feel free to edit, of course)... any chance you could add a section above it on the non-championship bouts. Nothing huge - no need to mention them all, just the ones that were interesting. Maybe 750 characters or so? We'd basically be ok for DYK as a x5 on length then. EdChem (talk) 16:25, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I've not responded. As you may be able to tell, I've not been online since our last communication. I'll get on it now. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad we got to add the extra article to the hook. For the article, do you have a reference for the nationality of Joakhim Apie? EdChem (talk) 06:47, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

'Fraid not. I only put Russian down as I was watching the live stream of the event and that's what flag they had for him on the tale of the tape. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:50, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

WT:DYK

FYI, I appreciate what you were trying to do, but to be useful, and move things forward, it really needs a summary of arguments and issues. That's not easy to do, and it should probably wait a little longer anyway (not very much longer, mind). Rd232 ^talk 16:41, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Fine. I'm not treating it as an official vote, btw. I'm just wanting to see who stands where. I thought it would be best to compile a list of who wants what, rather than current, fractured discussion that is about 500 lines long. Paralympiakos (talk) 17:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Venues of the 1956 Summer Olympics DYK nom

Hi Paralympiakos... I think you might want to have a look at this nom. I'm not willing to do the review, in part because I wouldn't pass it with the references the way they are, and in part because I am so disillusioned right at the moment. I was taking some pride in both what we and the project were accomplishing, and I am finding having that held in such contempt is painful. I hope you are doing better than I. EdChem (talk) 12:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Last I looked, there were two queues waiting to have prep areas merged, so there were no free spaces for new prep areas. I've been trying to take the strain of Rlevse's loss, by helping out with DYK prep areas.

If I could help with the queues, then I would, but alas that requires an admin and there's a snowball's chance in hell I'd pass the admin test. Don't lose faith in DYK. I'm staying away from the discussion area, as I find a lot of it farcical. For now, I'm just going to continue on slogging with the way we currently have it. Sadly, it appears that Rlevse's dramatic exit has hit the community more than I thought it would. If needs be, take a few days away again and come back refreshed. Last thing I want is for you to retire too. Paralympiakos (talk) 14:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed your prep area work - I'm not surprised that Rlevse's departure has had such a big effect - and it is good of you to be stepping up. You obviously have more faith in DYK at the moment than I do. I thought you might be interested in my more recent comments in the discussion; I did mean my comments on the value of our collaboration. Thanks for your comment on not wanting me to retire, there are at least a couple of people who share the sentiment (see my talk) but I am sad to say I still feel very much undecided and disillusioned. EdChem (talk) 14:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen your recent comments in WT:DYK, so I'll go and search for them. Just keep my view and those of others into consideration. It would be a big shame if you left. After all, you're the first person I've ever bothered to collaborate with on articles! Take it easy man. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've taken a look through your contribs and it's largely based around the sentiment that I gave the "hear hear" to. I completely agree with your view point. I think this current panic is a lot of overblown nonsense frankly. All we need is more reviewers, because I'm having to fish down to November noms, rather than those on October 23-. There's only so much I can do myself. Anyway, as I said, I hope you take some time to think it through as you'd be a big loss. At the end of the day, I don't think there's much persuading I can do about the DYK's longevity or purpose, but I'm just hoping you don't feel stressed about it further. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I think you'd be one of very few people who even notice if I left, let alone care enough to consider it any kind of loss. I should be contributing with reviews but I just am struggling to be bothered.  :( EdChem (talk) 16:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I feel the same way. I see all these people with tons of barnstars for their contribs to a project. I've had zero. I sometimes feel unappreciated, but then again at least I get self-satisfaction. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:05, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

(ec) First sentence = not true. There's really no "should be doing X" on Wikipedia; we're all volunteers. Do whatever you feel like, and come back to DYK when you want to. (And it might be best to stay away from the numerous discussions; as MatSci says, it's unclear if anything substantive will come of them, and they aren't exactly cheery.) Shubinator (talk) 16:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

What Shubinator said. On a positive note, our joint DYK is now the prep areas. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Marcus Jones

Better known as a fighter? According to who? Thats an opinion. For two sport athletes, the correct title is Athlete. Look at Pat White (athlete) for an example.--Yankees10 23:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The info on the page speaks for itself. Is there a source for ANY info on his NFL career. For a six year veteran, there's sod all about that part of his life. Is there about his MMA career? Absolutely. Therefore not particularly an opinion, more of a statement backed up by fact. The correct title is NOT athlete. Give me some sort of ruling on this, because I know of no rules stating that.

The fact is the guy is a two sport ATHLETE. Just saying "fighter" in the title is wrong. I would agree with you if he played only a year or two in the NFL, but he played 6 years and that should not be ignored. He was a first round draft pick no less--Yankees10 23:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I would be inclined to agree you, if his NFL run was at all relevant. By having such a pathetic stub section, without sources, it makes me think he was something of a scrub and that his MMA career was far more relevant to his life. 6 years or not, he's surely not relevant if people haven't taken the time to give it at least a couple of sources and an expand. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

What does the length of a section have to do with anything? There are hundreds of articles of notable people that are just as short. That should have nothing to do with what the title says. Thats not a good reason at all. I'm going to ask User:Eagles247 see what his opinion is on the matter.--Yankees10 23:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

You're going to ask an NFL fan? Hmm, this one isn't predictable. Besides which, who is that and why on earth are they relevant to this discussion? Paralympiakos (talk) 23:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Who cares that he is an NFL fan? Being a fan of the NFL shouldnt have any influence on the what the title of the article should be. He's an admin that I hope can help solve the issue.--Yankees10 23:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Is that a serious question? As an NFL fan and, I'm guessing, your go-to-guy since you're getting him involved, there's bound to be a massive amount of bias going on. Admins aren't above bias. We've just seen an arbitrator retire after plagiarising. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

My point is why in the hell should being a fan of a sport have any influence on the what the title should be. Sorry buddy, but me being a fan of football is not the reason why the title should be athlete. Apparently you being a MMA fan is your reasoning, which is a terrible one.--Yankees10 23:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Getting quickly bored of this now. You're asking your "buddy" to come and fight your battles for you, partly, I hypothesise because of the shared NFL interest. My MMA interest has nothing to do with this. The fact is that his NFL career may as well not be on the page at present. I'm tempted to wipe the info as part of BLP concerns. There's zero sources for it. At least MMA, while few, has sources. Based on that evidence, it suggests to me that he's not notable in NFL. Thus "fighter". Paralympiakos (talk) 23:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Buddy? Check his talk page before you make idiotic claims. I have left maybe 2 or 3 messages on his talk page before. Nobody is asking for him to "fight my battles", I would just like an outside opinion on the matter.--Yankees10 00:00, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Careful now. Insults aren't a pretty thing. That's the only reason I can think that you went to an NFL fan. If it's wrong, fine. I did say it was only a hypothesis.....a convincing one, mind. Bye bye. Paralympiakos (talk) 00:04, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the article should be named "Marcus Jones (athlete)". Even if Yankees10 argued for "Marcus Jones (fighter)" I would still feel this way. Jones, according to NFL.com had a nice career in the NFL as a starting end for the Buccaneers, and he would have an article regardless of his MMA fighting career. Paralympiakos, if you still think I am biased in my decision (I can assure you I am not), you can ask other editors at WP:3O for their opinions on this matter. Eagles 24/7 (C) 01:10, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright then. It's clear that I'm outnumbered. Since I prefer to handle things myself, without running off for a third opinion, needlessly dragging things on, I concede this one. Hardly happy about it, since the NFL is barely covered in the article and needs sourcing by someone, but alas, such is life. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:14, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I have added a source to the football career section, if you need anymore let me know. Eagles 24/7 (C) 01:35, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Paralympiakos and Yankees10, commenting as a watcher of this page who has worked with Paralympiakos, might I encourage you both to take note of Eagles247's approach? Rather than disagreeing with one another, simply adding source(s) on the NFL career both resolves the BLP concern and clarifies that an "(athlete)" descriptor is appropriate. RS's are a great tool when trying to resolve differences of opinion. EdChem (talk) 01:43, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Somewhat of a message aimed at Yankees more than me though. I wasn't the one proving NFL notability really.... You have an argument, back it up with sources. That's all I wanted. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Mate, you could have done a search for sources too... you weren't obligated too, but it might have been the high road. EdChem (talk) 01:52, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I know, but a) I don't appreciate being banded as making "idiotic claims" and b) for all my replies, I really was rather busy with a new page creation over the last couple of hours. Anyway, the matter is over at least. We're in queue 3 for the DYK, btw. That's about 32 hours off, I think. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

User:Mountaineer1976

Can you keep an eye on this guy? He was reported to WP:AIV for vandalism^[9][10][11] but I think mostly he was just frustrated in trying to build some MMA articles while getting deletion notices and one vandalism warning as of the time of the block request.^[12] I'm not saying he did a good job of handling our rules but he is building content. For this reason, I declined the block request.^[13]

I think maybe he could use some help from a sympathetic, MMA-knowledgeable editor to continue editing without further hassles.

I'm not MMA-knowledgeable, so if I'm misreading the quality of this guy's work, please feel to set me straight.
--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:27, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Alrighty then. Thanks for coming for a second opinion. Out of curiosity (and it's totally cool, so I'm hoping you don't take this question the wrong way), how did you find me? I'm unfamiliar with your name, so I don't know if we've had interaction before.:Anyway, I've taken a look at the user's contributions. There appears to be good faith going on with the majority. Execution is very poor, as there is zero detail and no sources, but the intent is positive. A couple on that list have been previously deleted, I believe, as I listed a couple of non-notables at AFD (I think). The improvement, to, for example the current version of Yasubey Enomoto came from other users who saw the poor state it was created in.

Out of interest, what would you like me to do? I'm happy to point him/her in the right direction with our documentation on MMA for wikipedia, but I'm concerned that it may be avoided and not paid attention to, as the warnings about template blanking were.

In summary, good faith article writer whose contributions are 50% notable, 50% not, and who doesn't seem to co-operate much at present. Advice on a role I could play? Sorry if tl;dr. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

*edit*Just scrolled up to see your name several times. You were the person with the helpful advice. Apologies for forgetting!! Paralympiakos (talk) 23:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I knew you were a thoughtful editor who knows MMA. I agree this is a problematic editor but I thought he got pretty chewed up today by the time I encountered him on AIV. Here are my comments on the subject to the editor that reported him. If nothing else, could you keep an eye on his talk page for overly hasty speedy deletions? I just don't understand the MMA world -- what's keepable and what's not. Again, if you're busy, don't worry about it. I appreciate the feedback you've already given me about this editor's work.

Thanks! --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:16, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely, I'll keep my eye out. It's a little difficult to know what is being written unless you take a look at the contribs of an individual, so I'll have to periodically keep looking at Mountaineers.

As for what's keepable and what isn't, we have a little essay that we sometimes take as policy in WP:MMANOT. Any fighter who has competed 3+ times in that list of organisations is usually worth having an article for. It's not that difficult to figure out notability if you use that guide, but don't worry, because I'll be keeping an eye out now. For what it's worth, with regards their writing length, I remember what it was like what I first started out and while not as bad as some of his/hers, my written articles weren't to the same standard as they are now. I'll see if I could possibly inspire a small amount of writing, even if it is only a couple of paragraphs w/ sources. I've now watchlisted the talk page as per the request. Thanks for keeping me in mind. I'll give you a shout if there's any further trouble. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

P.s. I left a message for Mountaineer just offering some support and help. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:52, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks so much! --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I will write you later. mountaineer1976 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountaineer1976 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I am azerbaijani by nationality, and my english is not very well,for that reason it is difficult to me to write grammatically article. And my articles is poor for that reason.mountaineer1976

Ok, I'll wait until you've send me a further message before I respond. Glad to see you're happy for help. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:33, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

FYI, I removed this speedy tag on Fight Festival; I don't know if the subject is sufficiently notable to justify retention but I thought we shouldn't speedy such a well-developed article without a discussion.^[14] If you have any precedents or sources that would preserve this article, it would be useful; without them I would have to vote against this article in an AfD.

Once again, thanks for helping this guy. Content-builders (not admins) are king around here, in my eyes.--12:30, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I left a note for the editor that tagged the article; see User talk:Terrillja#Fight Festival. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Artiom Damkovsky

-- Cirt (talk) 12:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Kenny Garner

-- Cirt (talk) 12:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Maxim Grishin

-- Cirt (talk) 12:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Guram Gugenishvili

-- Cirt (talk) 12:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for 2010 M-1 Challenge Season

-- Cirt (talk) 12:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Paralympiakos, I have added our joint 5-article hook in the the DYK Hall of Fame - look for the top entry in the section of 5 article hooks at WP:DYK/HoF. EdChem (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Ashleigh Grimshaw, Robbie Olivier

Hello! Your submission of Ashleigh Grimshaw, Robbie Olivier at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Arctic Night 12:20, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Appreciation for Collaboration / Cooperation

		The Half Barnstar
		Paralympiakos, I award you the right half of the barnstar to match my left half, because between us we have achieved something that I suspect niether of us would have done on our own. I have certainly enjoyed collaborating with you to add to Wikipedia, and appreciate being reminded of the positive aspects of this place. EdChem (talk) 14:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Capitalization of "mixed martial arts" 2

Hi, I thought I wouldn't have to discuss this again after our previous discussion (to which you had stopped replying) but judging from a recent discussion, you still seem to be confused about English capitalization rules. In the latter discussion, you repeated the errors that you made in the former:

• "It's MMA, not Mma."

  Initialisms are always capitalized, regardless of what they stand for.

• "Well spell it out then. Mixed Martial Arts."

  We do not capitalize a phrase simply because there exists an initialism for it. For example, "finite-state machine" is not capitalized, even though the initialism "FSM" exists.

• "As the full name of the sport, I believe it to be a proper noun, e.g. Mixed Martial Arts, not Mixed martial arts."

  It is not a proper noun, and full names of sports (e.g. boxing, basketball) are not capitalized (unless it is a special case where the name is derived from a proper noun; "martial art" is not a proper noun, so MMA is not a special case).

If you don't believe me, then listen to the participants of the recent discussion linked above. —LOL ^T/_C 19:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not an error. Even sherdog uses "Mixed Martial Arts" multiple times. Mixed martial arts just looks ugly and hence I change it. You going around making semi-automated edits isn't exactly helpful, so I'm making a case for IAR. Please just leave it as is. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Sherdog only capitalizes "Mixed Martial Arts" in page titles, or in the occasional oversight. Here is a sample of Sherdog's news articles, without "Mixed Martial Arts" in the title:

1. ... One of mixed martial arts' most beloved and important figures will make his eagerly ...
2. Currently, 40 States safely regulate the sport of mixed martial arts and enjoy local and statewide economic benefits associated with the ...
3. is negotiating for the services of Russian mixed martial arts star Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures), Sherdog.com confirmed Sunday. ...
4. ... A karate dojo masquerading as a mixed martial arts gym is hardly new.
5. ... Professional boxer James Toney, who makes his mixed martial arts debut Saturday night at UFC 118 at the TD Garden in Boston, has had a lot ...
6. ... The sport of mixed martial arts has taken another step towards legitimacy, as the Canadian province of Ontario announced it will sanction ...
7. ... The mullet-sporting mixed martial arts maestro checked in at 135 pounds for his main event showdown with Takeya Mizugaki (135) at WEC 40 ...
8. ... The pound-for-pound world in mixed martial arts is typically seen through the prism of the ...
9. ... Still one of the most recognizable superstars in mixed martial arts, Arlovski (15-6), who turned 30 last month, was knocked out by longtime ...
10. ... The well-liked Lewis left an indelible mark in mixed martial arts.

Out of an unbiased sample of 10 Sherdog articles, none of them capitalize "Mixed Martial Arts" outside of titles, so I don't see any case for IAR. Accusing me of being unhelpful doesn't help either, and neither does disregarding your co-editors. Please stop trying to come up with arguments in favour of incorrect capitalization, and just listen to us. —LOL ^T/_C 20:06, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, "listen to us or else" seems to be the message here. No thanks. I'd rather disregard messages like that. Paralympiakos (talk) 20:58, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

Hi! I'm here to provide a third opinion, in response to the request at WP:3O. Don't worry Paralympiakos, I can see why "listen to us" sounds objectionable at first glance, but Wikipedia is based around consensus and discussion. And based on the precedence already established with kung fu and taekwondo, the discussion elsewhere, as well as the usage by reliable sources, the consensus is to not capitalise. Now, granted, consensus can change, but this is something that you'll have to take to a much wider forum. Hope that helps!—hkr Laozi speak 00:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Perspective from a wiki-friend

Paralympiakos, I'd like to offer some friendly advice, which I hope you can accept in the spirit in which it is offered:

1. Whether you like it or not, there clearly is consensus on the MoS, and that makes the wiki-'correct' heading "Mixed martial arts". I agree with you that it looks inelegant - I had to change headings in my science articles because of this rule - but aesthetic preference does not override established consensus governing style across the 'pedia.
2. If you keep going the way you are going, you are going to get dragged to a board like ANI, which would suck. So, please stop reverting changes like these, because consensus will crush you. Be pragmatic and choose your battles wisely.
3. If it annoys you enough to pursue the issue then I implore you to fight in the wiki-acceptable way. Try for consensus for an MoS change, or an exception for sports, or something like that. I don't think your chances of getting a change are good, but if you want to try, that is the correct way to go about it. In the meantime, accept the existing consensus.
4. There is nothing stopping you from altering headings but remaining within the MoS rules. Perhaps you would find a heading of "MMA career" more palatable than "Mixed martial arts career". Looking for rule-compliant alternatives is a wiser strategy than reverting MoS-supported changes directly.
5. You can try to invoke IAR if you like (you have the right to do so) but you need to recognise that IAR cases can also be overturned by consensus, and I suspect that is what will happen if you try this route. Either way, you need to invoke and discuss the IAR case at a suitable central location if you want to argue for its application across MMA biographies. The biographies wikiproject or the MoS talk page are two potential locations, or maybe the content noticeboard - these are suggestions from the top of my head, this is not meant as an exhaustive list. I would also suggest reading the discussions on kung fu and taekwondo mentioned by hkr above, you may get some insight into differing perspectives and find some allies who could share your perspective.

Mate, try not to let this annoy you too much. Even if you don't like others' edits to articles you have written, you do have to accept that no one here owns an article, and collaborative projects require consensus to mean something. Be well. EdChem (talk) 06:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I can accept the advice in friendly nature, Ed. It's just that I'm sick and tired of being told what to do. It's like an order/ultimatum, rather than discussion. Somebody/people on wikipedia once said "if you're not contributing to articles and writing, then what are you here for?" I'd say this applies to LOL, who seems to just go about making tedious, MoS edits. No respect for writing, just mass reverting anybody to happens to go against some of the silly MoS "rules". By that, I mean that maybe efforts should be focused on writing and contributing in ways other than petty endash/emdash and MoS alterations. The encyclopedia isn't going to die just because record tables have endashes instead of emdashes. This is what I despise about MoS rulings, not to mention the fact that emdashes (to go into that area for a second) look hideous.

As for Mixed martial arts vs. Mixed Martial Arts, the examples given say "mixed martial arts". No capitalisation of the first M, just all lowercase. Now, obviously a heading can't be ===mixed martial arts career===, but then why go the ghastly route of capitalising ONE of the words? As for as I'm concerned, it's "mixed martial arts" or "Mixed Martial Arts". I prefer the latter for obvious reasons. Now, ownership doesn't come into this, but if it does, then it applies equally to all other parties who continue to change it to "Mixed martial arts". Paralympiakos (talk) 14:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

You're not being told what to do, but rather one little thing not to do, and that's spending special effort solely to undo good (in Wikipedia's POV) edits that bring an article in accordance with the MoS. Funny that you accuse me of having "no respect for writing, just mass reverting anybody to happens to go against some of the silly MoS 'rules' ", because I haven't ever mass reverted without prior discussion or removed any piece of writing over style, and you're the one mass reverting without any discussion whatsoever with the other party. Also fyi, the MoS is part of Wikipedia's featured article criteria and my edits aren't tedious, thanks to semi-automated scripts.

We go through the "ghastly" route of capitalizing the first word because of MOS:HEAD#Section headings. Ownership doesn't apply to those who make edits that are 100% supported by MoS and common sense, but it does somewhat to those who mass revert against Wikipedia guidelines simply because they subjectively claim that something looks "ugly" or "hideous" or "silly" or "ghastly", etc. —LOL ^T/_C 18:55, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

UFC's Wikipedia page

Hey since your mostly in charge of changing all MMA-related articles, I was wondering if you can take most of the pictures off of UFC's Wikipedia page, because most of them are irrelevant and make the page look crappy and kind-of corny. So can try to take some of the pic's off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumardey (talk • contribs) 15:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not in charge and no, I won't be taking any of the pictures down. They serve a purpose. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:14, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Yea some of the pictures do serve a purpose, but not all of them. Look at the Shonie Carter picture, whats the point of that pic. Just look at the NFL or Premier League wiki page, those pages look like a professional sports league. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumardey (talk • contribs) 15:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

As does UFCs. Paralympiakos (talk) 15:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Not with those useless pictures —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumardey (talk • contribs) 15:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm sorry you don't like it, but clearly other people don't have a problem with the pictures, or they'd have been taken down months ago. If you wish to make removals or alterations of content, then please discuss them. I'm glad you've not taken anything down as yet, but your heading changes constantly take place without discussion and are often a bad move. If you wish to suggest which to remove (besides the picture of Shonie Carter), then please suggest them first. Paralympiakos (talk) 16:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Danny van Bergen

Hello! Your submission of Danny van Bergen at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 28bytes (talk) 07:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Brent Weedman

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Douglas Lima

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Fight festival article is contested

Hi. How do you do ? I apologize fo my bad english. They write me about speedy deletion of article named "Fight Festival". Speedy deletion of the page is contested. What i must to do ? mountaineer1976 —Preceding undated comment added 14:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC).

Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a candidate for deletion. The organisation has no notability. Repeated creation isn't welcomed either, which I think (may be wrong) that you've done. If that is the case, try to avoid doing that. Paralympiakos (talk) 21:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Danny van Bergen

The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Wiki-Notable?

Hi Paralympiakos, is Henrique "Negao" Oliveira (sherdog bio) notable by WP-MMA WikiProject standards? PFHLai has suggested a current nom of yours at T:TDYK could be expanded, and I'm willing to help you with it, if you like. I think doing something positive might be helpful for me, given how WT:DYK is making me feel just at the present moment. Cheers. EdChem (talk) 10:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey bud. I'm willing confused by PFHLai's stance on my two noms. I fail to see how adding an extra name to the Erick Silva hook (the one about torrential rain screwing up the fight) would make it "hookier". Frankly, I'd say (perhaps subjectively, I know) that that is one of the more interesting hooks out there. Who has heard of combat sports taking place outdoors? It just doesn't happen.

I appreciate the offer of help too. My one concern is that our semi-policy of WP:MMANOT wouldn't allow for Oliveira to pass. He has two fights in "Jungle Fight" which is part of the second tier, but not the usually-required three. Now, for some fighters, if they have two, I personally am willing to let that go, but others aren't, and when they see that those two resulted in failure (a loss and an NC), they're likely to think he's going nowhere and isn't all that notable. I'm going to wait and see what is said at DYK, because I've responded to the two comments. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I think PFHLai was being helpful, pointing out the opportunity to add a second nom. It isn't necessary for hookiness, it's just an opportunity that is available. But, if he isn't notable then he isn't. What about others who competed in the event (DYK ... that A, B, and C were victorious in MMA bouts in torrential rain etc etc)? EdChem (talk) 11:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, if that's how you read it, then ok, but it wasn't what I got on first viewing. I'll take a look to see if there are any notables from that event, but unless there are some that have records of 4-0/5-0 etc, that it's doubtful I'll find the time to create more. I don't think I've had 50 edits in the last week tbh. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:19, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

T:TDYK and WT:DYK are pretty nasty at present. However, PFHLai has a long history of supporting the project (he has more than 1000 nomination credits, in case you were unaware). He was an enthusiastic supporter of my expansion of my DYK credits #4 and #5. I certainly would approach anything he suggests as meant in a positive / helpful way.

Incidentally, a x5 expansion of Renan Barão is an option. He has a 23-1-1 record, but the article is under 900 characters, so there must be more that could be said. EdChem (talk) 11:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

It's a possibility, but as above really. Paralympiakos (talk) 11:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

(e.c.) FYI, other victors were:

• Edson "Conterraneo" Franca (13 - 3 record, no wiki-article) Sherdog bio
• Rodrigo Damm (9 - 4 record) 413 characters so a x5 expansion is possible
• Carina Damm, already has a significant article
• Jorge "Jorjao" Rodrigues (21 - 5 record, no wiki-article) Sherdog bio
• Marcelo Guimaraes (4 - 0 - 1 record, no wiki-record) Sherdog bio

So, assuming that the expansions of Rodrigo Damm and Renan Barão were done, it could be a 3-article hook. If Guimares and Franca are wiki-notable, then a five article hook is possible. Thoughts? EdChem (talk) 12:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the research, but for now, I think I'll leave it. The impression I've now got is that I should do the 2nd article now rather than later; but I have no intention at the moment of doing a 2nd one, as none of them are particularly relevant. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:31, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I guessed that you weren't interested - fair enough. Are we still contemplating the hook for December, or are you getting too disillusioned? (Or maybe just hoping I'll leave you alone?) EdChem (talk) 03:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Give over, I'm not thinking the latter at all. I'm all for the December hook. It would be a hook for our work on Moks and Sultan to go to waste. Paralympiakos (talk) 06:34, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Court McGee

The article Court McGee you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Court McGee for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Aaron north (T/C) 20:13, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Krzysztof Soszynski

Will you fix the record for Krzysztof Soszynski, his record is missing 3 fights. RapidSpin33 (talk) 03:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Yuri Alcantara

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ashleigh Grimshaw

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Robbie Olivier

The DYK project (nominate) 12:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal

		The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal
		Paralympiakos, I notice that you have created or expanded 30 or more articles that have been selected for highlighting on the main page. That is a substantial achievement, of which you would be justified in being very proud. You are also contributing to the reviewing and administration of the DYK project, work that I for one am pleased to be able to acknowledge. Well done, and keep up the good work! EdChem (talk) 12:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Erick Silva

The DYK project (nominate) 18:07, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Michael Willian Costa

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Lincon de Sa

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of The Ultimate Fighter

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article The Ultimate Fighter you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Viriditas (talk) 07:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the notification. Looking forward to working with you (hopefully not too much ;) - my last GAN was an instant pass). Paralympiakos (talk) 17:10, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

See my comments about the references. Please add author names and other pub information as needed. Viriditas (talk) 21:39, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Edson Barboza

How was my edit on Edson Barboza's page vandalism? I simply recognized the fact that (despite some other user's claim) there is NO SUCH THING as a black belt in muay thai. As a muay thai practicioner and amateur mixed martial artist, I can assure you that muay thai does not use a belt system, even in Brazil. If you wish to remove my edit, fine... but don't have the nerve to call it vandalism. If you actually believe this misinformation to be true, I seriously have to question your qualifications. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.241.99 (talk) 04:15, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I gave you a warning for introducing errors, I never called it vandalism. If you were a true mixed martial artist, you'd know that Brazil DOES hand out belts in Muay Thai. What qualifications? Do you think you need qualifications to edit wikipedia? I have qualifications in outside life, but they have nothing to do with this... Paralympiakos (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Strikeforce

No one listed Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons II as Strikeforce: San Jose: Diaz vs. Noons II. The Strikeforce event pages should be consistent. And, per your rules, you always go by what the MMA media refers to the event as. No one has (ridiculously) called it Strikeforce: St. Louis: Henderson vs. Babalu II. Refer to any major MMA media sites for proof. Please make up your mind. Udar55 (talk) 19:33, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Page name is fine as, say, "Strikeforce: St. Louis" or "Strikeforce: Houston", but the official name is "Strikeforce: (Area): (Opponents)". Leave it as I put it please. Paralympiakos (talk) 19:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Again, please make up your mind. Why is Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons II different? Shouldn't you be demanding (again) that it say Strikeforce: San Jose: Diaz vs. Noons II? Please explain why that one is different. Udar55 (talk) 19:48, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Darrill Schoonover

The edit I made wasn't vandalism. If you ask anyone about the guy, they'll know him by that name after TUF.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

It was vandalism. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:06, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of The Ultimate Fighter

The article The Ultimate Fighter you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:The Ultimate Fighter for things which need to be addressed. Viriditas (talk) 07:37, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

If you have any questions or need further clarification, please contact me. Viriditas (talk) 07:37, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, again. Merry Christmas and happy new year! I would like to close out this review before the end of the year. Previously, you said you were going to take a look at the secondary sources in the further reading section and update the article if needed. Viriditas (talk) 00:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I took a look at the secondary, but didn't see any relevant info that wasn't already in the article or necessary. To my mind, this is definitely a GA already and any further changes aren't warranted to secure such a status. However, if you feel otherwise, then I respect your opinion. Unfortunately, I won't be able to work on it for a few days, as I'm going away on holiday. Apologies. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I think you know my concerns. Aside from some prose issues, I think you're right, this article should be passed based on the work that has been completed to date. Viriditas (talk) 12:12, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Because this review was categorized as sports and recreation, I added it to the martial arts section on the GA page.[15] But, should it be added to the TV section, instead? Viriditas (talk) 12:47, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Ian Loveland

I've created the Ian Loveland page, could you read over it and make the appropriate edits? I haven't added the record box yet, I'll do it if you don't have the time, but it's the one thing I hate editing more then anything. Thanks :). RapidSpin33 (talk) 06:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Cain Velasquez extra info

Why do you keep un-editing my revisions?

I'm adding extra info about the rounds. And they're cited. Please stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quixadox (talk • contribs) 03:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Keep? I've done it once, because it's useless information. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK?

Hi... I have started two of the pages for the DYK, assuming we are going ahead:

• User:EdChem/Tomasz Narkun
• User:EdChem/Vyacheslav Vasilevsky

Are we still going for it? Sorry I've been distracted. EdChem (talk) 10:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I presumed that given the lack of communication, we were going to settle for a 2 hooker. I'm on a full time job atm with stupid hours, so my time online is limited. I think there's been a change in one match btw. Abner Lloveras is back in, which I'm not sure if he was a month ago. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Abner wasn't on my list, but his article could still make it as a x5 expansion, as the present version isn't much more than the results table. If you have time to contribute to the articles, great. If not, I understand.  :) EdChem (talk) 13:31, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Your attention is needed

When you get a chance, can you address the comments needing attention here? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 12:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Michael Johnson (fighter)/GA1

Your GA nom of that article is on hold. Please click the link above to see my concerns. AaronY (talk) 03:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Vyacheslav Vasilevsky

Hi Paralympiakos, could you please help me with a quick question? Accoring to Sherdog this fighter's name is spelled Vyacheslav Vasilevsky. According to M-1 Global the spelling is Vyacheslav Vasilevski. Our joint nomination has been partially reviewed, and the question of the correct spelling has been raised. Any idea which is correct? Thanks, EdChem (talk) 09:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Usually, we go with the most common name; that being the sherdog one. There's always alternates on foreign websites, as there can obviously be national differences in spelling. The most important thing to take into account is that the sherdog spelling is the one that people are most likely to search for, so under WP:COMMONNAME, or some advice with a name similar to that, I'd go with sherdog's spelling.

As a side note, I'm sorry I've not been able to help out with this hook. I've been truly snowed under with work and various commitments. Hope you're doing ok. Paralympiakos (talk) 12:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks... the articles I have written could certainly do with additions from you, when you get the chance - that is Vyacheslav Vasilevsky, Tomasz Narkun, and Shamil Zavurov. If you have time now, I have fixed the references and results of Abner Lloveras, but the text needs expanding to above 3000 characters, and I don't think I'll get it done. I know what it's like to be snowed under, so I understand and it's not a problem, don't stress yourself. Keep well. EdChem (talk) 12:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Magomed Sultanakhmedov

The DYK project (nominate) 12:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Rafał Moks

The DYK project (nominate) 12:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Rollback/Huggle

Don't know why you don't have it already, and I know you're much more on top of MMA pages than I am. If there ever was a candidate for rollback, it's you. I'm happy to nominate you if you don't feel comfortable self-nominating. Additionally, Huggle is quite helpful for situations like the one that we just had on UFC 124. I'm happy to walk you through the setup if you'd like. Anything I can do to help.--Gnowor^T_C 02:43, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd be grateful for a co-nom for it. I had it a while back, but an admin charged in and removed it because I made an error in usage. Instead of talking me through it, they just went ahead and removed it. Getting back wasn't something I was planning on asking for, but if others put in a good word, I'd be happy with that. Thanks for the kind words. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

The template for a request auto adds the editor's own name for the nom. If you toss the nom up there right now, I'll happily add many more kind words. Thanks for all the work you do on WP.--Gnowor^T_C 02:49, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Alright bud. I've done that now. Appreciate the thanks. Ditto to you. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:53, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Again, you've obviously done much more work than me. I've added my two cents, and tossed in another when I saw an old block. You should get rollback. You deserve it. Going to watch UFC 124 right now. Hope you get the opportunity to as well now that the page is protected. Have a good one!--Gnowor^T_C 03:02, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, to explain that block, I was fairly new to wikipedia and I saw an editor constantly reverting the order of fights to a non-conventional style. I considered it troublemaking, but made the mistake of calling it "vandalism" and "stupid". For 3RR and those labels, I got a cooldown block. These things unfortunately happen when people are ratty and fatigued. Have a good night anyway. Paralympiakos (talk) 03:05, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Attention Required

Paralympiakos

I have two comments (purposing edits) requiring attention. It is not under my privilege or understanding to make the correct edits so im bringing them to your attention.

The first comment is located on the "List of UFC champions" dissusion page under heading #22 regarding Jose Aldo.

The second (and within realizing this may not be your exact area) is located on the "List of K-1 champions" dissusion page not listed under a numbered heading but regarding K-3 Grand Prix Champion Ivan Hippolyte.

Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.41.223 (talk) 03:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Upon further review of the UFC home Wiki page, under the Notable Fighters heading, Jose Aldo listed under Featherweight and Dominick Cruz under Bantamweight could have reedited titles to remove former WEC Bantamweight and Featherweight Champion from their names. A WEC Championship does not contribute to the status of a notable UFC fighter and as such should be removed, as is the case with Dan Henderson not including the title former PrideFC Welterweight Champion.

The UFC page is protected which is why I`m also bringing this to your attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.41.223 (talk) 04:37, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Christmas Card

File:Wikisanta-no motto.png

Merry Christmas At this festive time, I would like to say a very special thank you to my fellow editors, and take the time to wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. And, in case you can't wait until the big day, I've left you each three special presents, click to unwrap :) Acather96 (talk) 10:10, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Green and Yellow Present.gif

File:Yellow and Red present.gif

File:Blue and Red Present.gif

GO fuck yourself. Paralympiakos (talk) 10:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of The Ultimate Fighter

The article The Ultimate Fighter you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:The Ultimate Fighter for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Viriditas (talk) 01:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

You nominate yourself for stupid made up awards... get a life! You troll as much as anybody else you rip on people and then once they prove wrong or anything of that sort, you call them a troll and try to ban them or just delete a post they made. People I have seen people constantly try and report or say they want to but don't know how. Get off your high horse kid, or more likely and even more pathetic and sad, adult.