Talk:United States

Reverted religion fact

The most religious area of the United States is American Samoa, not Mississippi. The rate of religious affiliation in American Samoa is more than 30% higher than in Mississippi. A sentence mentioning this fact was added, but it keeps getting reverted.

One objection is that mentioning American Samoa is too trivial. What makes mentioning American Samoa more trivial than Mississippi? While it's true that American Samoa is not a state, it is still part of the United States (it has a zip code, U.S. National Park, people there get U.S. Medicare and sign up for the U.S. military, they have a representative in the U.S. House of Representatives, etc.)

Another objection is that this article is only about states, which isn't true. This article is about all components of the United States: states, territories, the federal district, etc.

The religion fact is not explicitly about territories: for example, if the religious rate in Mississippi was 99.5%, then American Samoa would not need to be mentioned. It just happens to be that American Samoa has the highest religious rate in the country.

I'd like to bring the religion fact back, but first want to acknowledge whether it will get reverted again. LumaP15 (talk) 01:02, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

The Gallup poll mentioning the range of religious affiliation is mentioned at the main article, Religion in the United States, which apparently doesn't mention American Samoa. The relevance of the A.S. number should be vetted there before it is put here. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

That article (Religion in the United States) did mention American Samoa, but like with the U.S. article, it was reverted. I restored the American Samoa mention in that article. LumaP15 (talk) 02:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

That may mean that you're just going to be reverted there. Per WP:BFD you need to discuss the appropriateness of the A.S. figure there, and get consensus for its inclusion. Dhtwiki (talk) 04:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

American Samoa has a much lower population than Mississippi. The entire population is estimated to 54,194 people. It is not that surprising that they are less diverse when it comes to religion.

"CIA Factbook 2010 estimate shows the religious affiliations of American Samoa as 98.3% Christian, other 1%, unaffiliated 0.7%. World Christian Database 2010 estimate shows the religious affiliations of American Samoa as 98.3% Christian, 0.7% agnostic, 0.4% Chinese Universalist, 0.3% Buddhist and 0.3% Bahá'í.

According to Pew Research Center, 98.3% of the total population is Christian. Among Christians, 59.5% are Protestant, 19.7% are Roman Catholic and 19.2% are other Christians. A major Protestant church on the island, gathering a substantial part of the local Protestant population, is the Congregational Christian Church in American Samoa, a Reformed denomination in the Congregationalist tradition. As of August 2017, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website claims membership of 16,180 or one-quarter of the whole population, with 41 congregations, and 4 family history centers in American Samoa. Jehovah's Witnesses claim 210 "ministers of the word" and 3 congregations. " Dimadick (talk) 10:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

References

Efforts to overemphasize U.S. territories in this article are questionable. American Samoa is a tiny, unintegrated territory of 54,000 people, less populous than a small U.S. city. Mississippi (however much some editors wish to dismiss it) is an integrated state of the Union with 55 times the population of American Samoa. Comparative U.S. stats rarely if ever cite U.S. territories. Even the WP listings of largest U.S. cities and metros don't rank San Juan, Puerto Rico. Puerto Rican cities are listed separately. Mason.Jones (talk) 15:48, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

And yet, in its wisdom, the community has deemed the territories to be part of the country. --Golbez (talk) 15:58, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I agree with the "inclusionist" side. I'm just concerned when its supporters include territorial facts/factoids that should be rarer than comparisons of actual states 55 times more populous (and far more complex and diverse) than American Samoa. Mason.Jones (talk) 19:55, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't think size really matters. For example, American Samoa has a quarter, just like populous areas such as California and Texas. And American Samoa sends a non-voting representative to Congress just like the much more populous Puerto Rico. Also, with regard to size (population), California is 68 times larger than Wyoming, and yet both are treated equally in many ways (they each have 2 senators, etc.) With regard to integration, while territories of the U.S. are not states, there are numerous examples of them being under the jurisdiction of the United States; for example, people in the territories get medicare, sign up for the U.S. military, vote in presidential primaries, have federal employees, U.S. post offices, etc. If looking at religious figures from all distinct entities of the U.S. (all the states, territories and DC), one sees that American Samoa happens to have the highest rate of religious affiliation. LumaP15 (talk) 21:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Making sweeping statements about U.S. demographics using a tiny U.S. territory of only 54,000 residents is problematic, no matter how many USPS facilities it hosts. If the American Samoa religious stat follows "Vermont is lowest/Mississippi highest", it must at least be qualified ("unusually high due to 100 years of evangelical and Mormon missionary activity on sparsely populated islands"). Otherwise, it's irrelevant for a country of 325 million people. Territorial stats should be an exception, not the rule, in this article. Mason.Jones (talk) 19:34, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

How about saying that "Mississippi has the highest rate of religious affiliation of the 50 states" and that "the territory of American Samoa has a higher rate, but a much lower population".--Khajidha (talk) 12:33, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Why do we need this statement at all? It's pointing out ~1/30th of the political units in the country, comprising 1% of its population. Why is it so important to say that Mississippians and Samoans say they're more religious than the rest of the country? That doesn't add to an understanding of the country as a whole. I'll come out against having this whole clause in. --Golbez (talk) 13:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced content moved from article

I moved this section here for discussion as to whether it should be sourced and included or excluded.

Lutheranism in the United States has its origin in immigration from Scandinavia and Germany. North and South Dakota are the only states where a plurality of the population is Lutheran. Presbyterianism was introduced in North America by Scottish and Ulster Scots immigrants. Although it has expanded across the country, it is heavily concentrated on the East Coast. Dutch Reformed congregations were founded first in New Amsterdam (New York City) before spreading westward. Episcopalians/Anglicans played a pivotal role in the country's founding and separated from the Church of England after the American Revolution. They tend to be concentrated on the East Coast. Quakers are present mostly on the East Coast as well. Anabaptists and Pietists have a strong presence in Pennsylvania and in some East North Central states.

Utah is the only state where Mormonism is the religion of the majority of the population. Eastern Orthodoxy is claimed by 5% of people in Alaska, a former Russian colony, and maintains a presence on the U.S. mainland due to recent immigration from Eastern Europe. Finally, a number of other Christian groups are active across the country, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, Restorationists, Churches of Christ, Christian Scientists and many others.

--Mark Miller (talk) 21:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

Its oddly detailed, yet non-informative and unsourced. Look like a simple attempt to link some articles. Best covered in main article because it would be overly detailed if fixed. This is not GA level writing......I would ask.

• Lutheranism in the United States has its origin in immigration from Scandinavia and Germany

Where and when did they arrive?

• North and South Dakota are the only states where a plurality of the population is Lutheran.

by what kind of margin?

• Presbyterianism was introduced in North America by Scottish and Ulster Scots immigrants.

When last year?

• Dutch Reformed congregations were founded first in New Amsterdam (New York City) before spreading westward.

So this is about 1609–1625 right?

• Quakers are present mostly on the East Coast as well.

who, how?

• Anabaptists and Pietists have a strong presence....

is this meaning by the numbers or political power...or both?

• Utah is the only state where Mormonism is the religion of the majority of the population.

again by what kind of margin?

• Eastern Orthodoxy is claimed by 5% of people in Alaska, a former Russian colony, and maintains a presence on the U.S. mainland due to recent immigration from Eastern Europe

I like this fact....but like the rest no source

......and so on. I guess some good sources would be the first step, if all think we can make this informative over just links..--Moxy (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

References

Proposition

How about leaving the sentences about distribution, historical links, etc. out of that section? Focus on what denominations are present and so condense it entirely?Ernio48 (talk) 16:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

'current' constitution

In the intro I had removed 'current' before 'constitution' on the thesis that it is the only constitution the United States has ever had. My edit was reverted on the grounds that the Articles of Confederation had preceded it and constituted a 'constitution'. While the Articles were adopted by the Continental Congress in 1781, and therefore certainly preceded the Constitution which was ratified in 1788, the Articles were actually a wartime confederation which did not establish a central government, and therefore were not a 'constitution' as that term is recognized today. In view of the fact that the Founding Fathers agreed with this definition by deciding to abandon the Articles and write a new Constitution establishing a federal republic with a strong centralized government, one Constitutional scholar has stated that the U.S. Constitution "is regarded as the oldest written and codified constitution in force of the world."[citation 2] (see WP article U.S. Constitution - lead). Therefore, to use the word 'current' implies that other constitutions preceded the Constitution. I would like to remove the word 'current' and add the citation 2 noted immediately above, but I would appreciate other editors' opinions. American In Brazil (talk) 20:00, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Take note of the words in force in what you quoted above. The Articles of Confederation are older, but not still in force. So, "the oldest" doesn't contradict the use of "current" in the article. I think that it's fair to consider the Articles a constitution, as they describe, or constitute, the basic processes of governance, which otherwise might be according to accepted, but unwritten, usage. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

What you say about the Articles no longer being in force is certainly correct. However, the issue is whether the Articles were a 'constitution'. Dictionary.com defines 'constitution' as:

   noun
   1. the system of fundamental principles according to which a nation, state, corporation, or 
   the like, is governed.
   2. the document embodying these principles.

Since the Articles never provided for a centralized government, there is a strong argument that it was never a constitution. Therefore, the 'current' Constitution is the only constitution the United States has ever had. American In Brazil (talk) 02:27, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

The Articles reserved to Congress the right to make treaties, coin money, resolve disputes between the States, etc.; and it enumerated a number of rights, mostly those of the States. There wasn't an executive branch as we know it, nor a judiciary, and the power given to those branches that they now have; but the Articles set out a "system of fundamental principles" as I understand it. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Executive power was exercised by Congress. It was similar to the weak mayor system of government where executive power is exercised by the mayor and council, as is the case in some U.S. cities and some major cities outside the U.S. such as Toronto. Heads of departments are selected either by the mayor and council or by relevant committees. That does not mean these cities have no constitutions. TFD (talk) 14:32, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Is this article citing (current Constitution) referencing towards a revised version of the original? Meaning, other amendments added.

I think it's fair to say that we've always had a constitutional since our founding, and many founding Federalists like (Alexander Hamilton), pushed for a strong Central government. So we've always had that as well. NocturnalDef (talk) 08:00, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

UNESCO World Heritage Site

The list of World Heritage Sites in the United States of America is incorrect and leaves out Poverty Point in Northeastern Louisiana. This was designated a World Heritage Site on June 22nd, 2014 at the UNESCO Convention in Doha, Qatar. JonCaz (talk) 15:50, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. General Ization ^Talk 15:52, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Added In the future, please cite sources for your suggested changes and additions. Thanks. General Ization ^Talk 16:05, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2018

Change the default motto of the United States from "In God We Trust" to "E Pluribus Unum." The original is the latin and the alternative is "In God We Trust." Digital2analog (talk) 16:13, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Not sure what you are asking. E Pluribus Unum translates to Out of Many, One not in God we trust. According to this, "In God we Trust" is the motto. ~ GB fan 16:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: As GB fan's cite shows, request is incorrect. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:30, 20 March 2018 (UTC)