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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 76.65.41.59 (talk) at 05:06, 29 June 2018 (→‎Is JonTron notable?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Article reads like a list

While it is notable, the article reads a lot like a timeline list, which isn't a very good way to convey the information as almost every section reads like this. I don't know what WP tag covers this though or how to convert the current content to something more readable. 216.243.63.186 (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Archive

A bunch of statements for the contested deletion of this article (the majority from Reddit, one imagines) have been archived to Talk:Jonathan Jafari/Archive 1. — foxj 01:15, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved  — Amakuru (talk) 17:28, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Jon Jafari → JonTron – As per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PSEUDONYM. Most resources refer to him by that name; JonTron has ~420,000 hits on Google versus ~225,000 for Jon Jafari. Google Trends: JonTron v. Jon Jafari.

Am a bit hesitant to move this uncontroversially because 1) the article has just been created and 2) "JonTron" is fully protected due to repeated recreation in the past. Satellizer el Bridget (Talk) 11:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Just looking at the titles of the sources should make this clear. It is definitely the subject's common name. I don't think it's a controversial move, no, thogh I find it curious that the article now (finally) exists. The article won't get deleted this time? ~Mable (chat) 11:20, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I would suggest taking this to AfD if you disagree, but I believe there are now more than enough reliable sources to warrant the article's existence. — foxj 12:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would support this. — foxj 12:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Disregarding the question of notability, the person is better known by their pseudonym. Someone else can AfD this again if they want to. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:33, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per COMMONNAME — Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. CookieMonster755 📞 ✉ ✓ 18:32, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per COMMONNAME, if a person is known as X but is actually called Y by the common public the Y should be the wikipedia name. Snoop_Dogg, 50_Cent, Eminem, Egoraptor, iJustine, Markiplier and numerous others. This page should also redirect to JonTron. avalean (talk) 18:39, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per COMMONNAME - More people search for "JonTron" then do search for "Jon(athan) Jafari". It's far more easily recognizable, and should definitely be used instead. TheSqrtMinus1 23:16, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Support per COMMONNAME. We clearly have examples of this for other internet personalities (eg PewDiePie, Markiplier) Leave redirect on this page for obvious reasons. --MASEM (t) 18:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, can we close this...? Thesqrtminus1(talk) 16:56, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Just spoke to Mr. Jafari, he approves of the page and we should be getting a Creative Commons approved photo any time now. 【Zagexma】 23:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Zagexma: Heh, nice. Would be cool to have. Make sure he explicitly publishes it under a Creative Commons license (see WP:DONATEIMAGE for the reasoning). :) (also, hi reddit) — foxj 00:37, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 3 May 2016

I am the author of the original draft of this page as seen here, and would like to add more sources that I find as well as continue to add new information. 【Zagexma】 00:47, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Zagexma: This template's just for specific edits. I think the protection was a mistake so have contacted the admin for clarification. If you want to make a specific edit please detail it below in the same way you requested this edit. Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience! — foxj 00:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Personal/Early Life

I want to gather some resources on Jon's early/personal life. I know he attended Palos Verdes Peninsula High School along with some other YouTubers. He is of Persian decent on his father's side. I also know that he had a Newgrounds account under the name BirdmanXZ6 where he made animations about onions[1]. Most of these facts I know simply because they were stated on Game Grumps, but I cannot find any legitimate sources that say these things. Perhaps we can get Jon to write a post similar to Egoraptor's?: [2] 【Zagexma】 21:21, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would strongly recommend against referencing a self-published source; see WP:PRIMARY. — foxj 17:55, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source for middle name?

I found this link, although I'm not sure if it's entirely credible. It cites Jafari's middle name as "Aryan," and his birthdate and location of birth are a match. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VG8Z-6WQ Anthonymous (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NB to editors

Please try to avoid citing facts to Jon's YouTube channel or to random tweets. These are primary sources and not suitable for Wikipedia. Thanks! — foxj 17:50, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously, we need a picture.

Thesqrtminus1(talk) 13:29, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Zagexma: I know this is a pain in the ass, but can you please have Jon email permissions-en@wikimedia.org to confirm that the picture is his. As it is, it will look like "Flickr washing" (creating a Flickr account to upload copyrighted stuff under a "free license"). Thanks! — foxj 02:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

JonTron Show page?

Shouldn't there be a separate page for the actual JonTronShow episodes? This is a biography on Jon Jafari himself, but there should definitely be a seperate page for the JonTronShow.

101.161.9.29 (talk) 10:32, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Inclusion of Aryan (Jafari's middle name) in this article

INCLUDE IF AND ONLY IF A RELIABLE SOURCE COMPLIANT WITH WP:BLPPRIMARY VERIFIES THE MIDDLE NAME:

There is a clear consensus to include in the article Jafari's full name, including his middle name Aryan, if and only if an appropriate reliable source verifies this information. As noted in a removal of the middle name by Sro23 (talk · contribs), "I know, but per WP:BLPPRIMARY, can't use public records as sources."

WP:BLPPRIMARY says:

Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses.

Therefore, the middle name should not be sourced with a source that violates WP:BLPPRIMARY. If no reliable source compliant with WP:BLPPRIMARY can be found, the middle name should not be restored.

Cunard (talk) 03:16, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

From what I've seen in the edit history of this page, we as editors can't seem to come to a consensus as to whether we should include Aryan, Jafari's reported middle name, in this article or not. It has been removed and re-added and removed and re-added again by various editors, myself included. An RfC looks like the only way we can come to a consensus on this without resorting to an all-out edit war. So, I put it to you, my fellow editors: Should we include Jafari's full name, including his middle name, in this article? Blurp92 (talk) 06:06, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

  • Include as requester. All other Wikipedia articles about people include their full names, middle name included. (Examples: 1 2 3 4 5) That, and Jafari's middle name is documented on the California Birth Index,[1] so it's safe to say that the name "Aryan" comes from a reliable source. Blurp92 (talk) 06:06, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
California Birth Index source

References

  1. ^ "Person Details for Jonathan Aryan Jafari, "California Birth Index, 1905-1995" — FamilySearch.org". FamilySearch.org. Intellectual Reserve, Inc. Retrieved 19 February 2017.
  • Comment - I'm confused as to what we are being surveyed on exactly: inclusion of the full name as page title, as the bold full name in the lead, the name in the infobox, or the name used to refer to him in the article? Until clarified, all I can think to do here is answer on a case-by-case basis:
Page title - stage name, per WP:PSEUDONYM, with redirects for variations of his full name.
Lead - full name with middle name included, per MOS:FULLNAME, followed by stagename per MOS:LEGALNAME.
Infobox - stagename at infobox top per Template:Infobox person, with full name and initial included in the Birth name row.
Article content - just last name, no middle name, per normal conventions (see Boxxy), unless it can be determined that he does not use his legal last name in any professional way, per the last paragraphs in MOS:LASTNAME (see Snoop Dogg as example). Yvarta (talk) 20:18, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@ Yvarta: For clarification, I was referring to the full name in the lead and the birth name in the infobox, which currently (revision 766296804) say "Jonathan "Jon" Jafari" and "Jonathan Jafari", respectively. Blurp92 (talk) 22:15, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thanks for clarifying. Yvarta (talk) 22:40, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Threaded discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Doubt about reliable source

I understand that the public record can be used due to WP:BLPPRIMARY, but I want to know if a video of him addresing this issue (minute 35:05 to 35:42) and confirming that Aryan is his middle name can be used or if that would violate WP:BLPSPS. Futhermore, while researching to ask this I found his IMDb entry where the middle name is also clearly stated, so I'm now wondering if that secondary source is clearly valid and my initial doubt is redundant. 87.221.153.144 (talk) 22:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That video should be fine per WP:BLPSELFPUB. I think we can trust that Jon knows what his middle name is. clpo13(talk) 22:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Add his Personal life

I demended of someone add personal life secton, Because the Jontron page is locked. 70.61.101.154 (talk) 14:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Controversy

I don't really think this section is noteworthy for inclusion. The websites that are reporting on it are mostly just opinion pieces and I don't even think it's that newsworthy of a story. In my view, it should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FOXHOUNDER1014 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Time has posted an article on the whole event on their website; it's in their entertainment section and online, admittedly, but that seems like a pretty good argument for this being newsworthy. (Source: [4] ). 32.217.161.69 (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

He's only lost a couple thousand subscribers I don't think it needs to be in the wikipedia page — Preceding unsigned comment added by TraitorMania (talk • contribs) 03:52, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to agree that this is a minor footnote in his history and it should be removed. Supergodzilla2090 (talk) 04:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FOXHOUNDER1014 (talk • contribs) 03:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Supergodzilla2090: @FOXHOUNDER1014: Jontron's comments are not a minor footnote. It has been reported by various news sources including the aforementioned Time source. Kotaku reported that several of Jontron's "long time" fans have lost respect for him, as seen here. Other who had reported this included Polygon, Mic.com, and Crave Online. Yoshiman6464 ♫🥚 20:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Yoshiman6464: Mic, kotaku, etc are not noteworthy sources. BrxBrx(talk)(please reply with { {re|BrxBrx}}) 20:36, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@BrxBrx and Yoshiman6464: Um, yes they are, particularly for internet-culture related biographies for which general printed sources are not available or do not otherwise exist. — foxj 21:31, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Should say, there's a whole page on this stuff. It can be hard when these outlets have biases, but this has always been the case with media and it just means that care must be taken. — foxj 21:33, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(see also WP:UNDUE, which also applies here.) — foxj 21:34, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We are seriously using Mic as a source? Ridiculous we use THEM but we don't use Breitbart, stupid. 70.44.154.16 (talk) 01:30, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There has been a consensus that kotaku and mic are similar to the Daily Mail in terms of sourcing. They're very shaky. BrxBrx(talk)(please reply with { {re|BrxBrx}}) 20:45, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this section is not noteworthy and just an exercise in liberal point scoring, I suggest anything regarding the so-called controversy regarding the tweet be deleted until a reputable source can be provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.49.82 (talk) 19:30, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://time.com/4701304/jontron-jon-jafari-steve-bonnell-immigration-race-youtube/--Craigboy (talk) 07:55, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Normal Boots Article??

Right now Normal Boots just redirects to the JonTron article, but I honestly think it seems like something that is deserving of its own separate article. Anyone else agree with me on this???TheDisneyGamer (talk) 15:32, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If I am remembering correctly an article about Normal Boots used to exist. I do not know why it was removed. Queensferry572 (talk) 16:59, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It was deleted as not meeting the notability guidelines, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Normal Boots. I wild advise that any attempt to recreate the article take that into account or there is a good chance it would be deleted again.--76.65.43.125 (talk) 06:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That honestly makes sense- it was probably created by some 8 year-old or something who quickly half-assed an article up without actually adding any citations to show notability. So if someone actually put effort into a Normal Boots article then I think it'd be perfectly justified in existing.TheDisneyGamer (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

CC Picture??

The removal of and deletion mark for the show's logo got me thinking about a new picture. Looking through the talk page I know @Zagexma: was talking a couple of years back about a creative commons picture from Jon himself- what ever happened to that and/or what is the status of that?? ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 21:34, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2018

Change "over 511 million" to "over 550 million" 68.118.134.8 (talk) 15:02, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBriTalk 17:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is JonTron notable?

I'm not sure if JonTron needs a wikipedia article. Is this really necessary? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.57.212.59 (talk) 14:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He has voice credits in multiple video games, has received attention from several news outlets, has appeared in music videos, and has appeared in official promos for movei trailers. I'd say all of these factors combine constitute notability for sure. AlmightyMushroomMan (talk) 04:25, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@AlmightyMushroomMan: Actually, none of those reason (except for the news attention) really have much to do with notability. This article was deleted four times back when all he had was voice credits and video roles. The primary reason he's notable is because of all the coverage his controversial political views got; that was the key difference in the 5th deletion discussion (the one ended with a "keep" consensus). @185.57.212.59: This article has survived a very lengthy deletion discussion where it was decided by the community that he is notable, so it's unlikely that a new discussion would overturn the previous consensus. The previous discussion can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JonTron (5th nomination). –IagoQnsi (talk) 17:39, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It actually wasn’t his political views that influenced the last AFD since that was closed several and survivec deletion months prior to the his political issues. it’s likely going to be even stronger stronger now if 6th SFD is created.--76.65.41.59 (talk) 05:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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