Talk:Love jihad conspiracy theory
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Hi Doug_Weller & Foxhound03. The following edit I made [1] is not WP:SYNTHESIS, it's from the book "Hindu Nationalism in India and the Politics of Fear" by Dibyesh Anand, Published by the academic publisher Palgrave (https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9780230603851), and it's specifically from Chapter 3, which you can access the online version of here : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057%2F9780230339545_3, and it mentions love jihad 7 times, (i've screenshotted the pages, if you are unable to access them) here one Page 66 (https://i.imgur.com/p3UUyl8.png) and 67 (https://i.imgur.com/lmqRWvD.png)
And all the other sources are just the direct references from Anand's references section starting on page 175. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] Swagmaster11139248 (talk) 11:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello Swagmaster11139248, there is a clear and obvious problem with not only the un-encyclopedic tone you had used but by the baseless assertions you had made. I do not believe it was an edit in good faith. You included phrases such as "Chad Muslim alpha male", "there is a big conspiracy by these Muslim Chads" and "Radical hindu men also have detailed sexual fantasies about the Chad Muslim men.". There are also grammatical mistakes littered all over your addition. Your sources may support some of what you had added, but there is a major reworking of your languages needed.
Foxhound03 (talk) 12:22, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's correct, it's badly written. You can use those pages by Anand, but not his sources. Doug Weller talk 12:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Fringe theories noticeboard discussion
A discussion about this article is taking place on the fringe theories noticeboard. If you are interested, please participate at WP:FTN § Love Jihad conspiracy theory. — Newslinger talk 23:16, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Lead
@Newslinger: Do you think editors here were all sleeping throughout these years that they didn't know better than this edit you have made?
All your sources are passing mentions and mostly outdated news reports. But I will mainly talk about addressing your book sources. Your one book source talks a lot about Love Jihad, but does not introduce it as a "conspiracy theory".[10] Other source makes a single mention of the word "conspiracy theory".[11] This is not enough to label the subject as a 'conspiracy theory'. Most academics see no 'conspiracy theory',[12][13][14] nor the quality news sources.[15]
Even if you think this is a conspiracy theory, it is technically incorrect because most of the cases saw the reporter of Love Jihad incident to be the victim or victim's parents.[16][17][18][19] How they can have any political motive behind it? They are reporting because what they claim to have experienced than doing anything to orchestrate conspiracy.
Since divorces have taken place in India after the complaint to the court about love jihad,[20] that means there is authenticity in this concept and it cannot be rejected as 'conspiracy theory'. Central Bureau of Investigation and the judge Ajay Kumar Gudia, too agreed with the existence of "Love Jihad".[21] Now whether the concept is being exaggerated or not is another thing, but it is not a conspiracy theory. Rustam Fan (talk) 00:21, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- The academic sources do indeed describe Love Jihad as a conspiracy theory or fabricated claim. See the following quotes (emphasis added):
This chapter examines the conspiracy theory of "Love Jihad" across traditional and social media discourse in India as a way to show how affective strategies promoting Islamophobia are employed through logics of "digital governmentality" (Badouard et al., 2016).
"Love Jihad" is a campaign started by right-wing Hindu nationalists in 2009 (Gökarıskel et al., 2019) alleging that Muslim men feign love to lure non-Muslim women to marry them in order to covert them to Islam (Rao, 2011). The exponents of this conspiracy assert that innocent Hindu women are converted to Islam in order to increase the Muslim population, thereby waging jihad or holy war against Hindus (Gupta, 2009). By evoking demographic fears and anxiety, this campaign demonizes Muslims and works to advance the patriarchal idea of saving Hindu girls from an imagined Muslim menace (Das, 2010). The case study of "Love Jihad' showcases how propaganda and emotionality have, through digital media, come into a now digital discursive configuration, one which has been ideologically named the "post truth era," dominated by online trolls and conspiracy theorists.
Farokhi, Zeinab (3 September 2020). "Hindu Nationalism, News Channels, and "Post-Truth" Twitter: A Case Study of "Love Jihad"". In Boler, Megan; Davis, Elizabeth (eds.). Affective Politics of Digital Media: Propaganda by Other Means. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-000-16917-1. Retrieved 19 September 2020 – via Google Books.
The "love jihad" is a bizarre myth about a Muslim campaign to conquer Hindus by stealing their girls, one heart at a time. The story goes that a handsome young man appears in the community and woos away a Hindu girl with his seductive charms and promises of a better life. He has been schooled in a madrassah, but possesses the wherewithal for modern courtship, like a motorcycle and a mobile phone. Only after she has run off with him does he reveal himself as a Muslim, either forcing her to convert or selling her into slavery.
Like all good propaganda, there is a molehill of fact somewhere within this mountain of fiction. Love often does blossom between young men and women whose matches are deemed unsuitable. Sheer probability dictates that most of these scandalous liaisons involve Hindu couples of different castes or classes; relatively few are interreligious. Some of the couples elope; some are forcibly, even fatally, separated—including through the infamous practice of "honor killings."
George, Cherian (September 2016). Hate Spin: The Manufacture of Religious Offense and Its Threat to Democracy. MIT Press. pp. 83–109. ISBN 978-0-262-33607-9. Retrieved 19 September 2020 – via Google Books.
Muslims form about 15% of India’s population and have suffered severe marginalization in education and employment, since the partition of Hindu-majority India and Muslim-majority Pakistan in 1947 (Alam, 2010). They have since faced recurrent riots (Varshney, 2003). Other hostilities include false accusations of love jihad (a conspiracy theory claiming Muslim men feign love with non-Muslim women to convert them to Islam) and attempts to convert Muslims to Hinduism by Hindu fundamentalist organizations (Gupta, 2009). After the rise of a right-wing Hindu nationalist party Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in 2014, hate crimes against Muslims and Dalits have spiked for allegedly consuming or transporting cows (considered holy in Hinduism) (Human Rights Watch, 2018).
Nair, Rashmi; Vollhardt, Johanna Ray (October 2019). "Intersectional Consciousness in Collective Victim Beliefs: Perceived Intragroup Differences Among Disadvantaged Groups". Political Psychology. 40 (5). Wiley: 917–934. doi:10.1111/pops.12593. Retrieved 19 September 2020 – via ResearchGate.
- All of the following reliable news sources also describe Love Jihad as a conspiracy theory, and almost all of them offer significant coverage of the Love Jihad conspiracy theory and its consequences. See the following quotes (emphasis added):
9 reliable news sources describing Love Jihad as a conspiracy theory
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Purewal, Navtej K. (3 September 2020). "Indian Matchmaking: a show about arranged marriages can't ignore the political reality in India". The Conversation. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Byatnal, Amruta (13 October 2013). "Hindutva vigilantes target Hindu-Muslim couples". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Dhara, Tushar (26 July 2019). "In Rajasthan, a case of "love jihad" cuts stereotypes of caste and party allegiances". The Caravan. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Bhanutej, N. (23 December 2013). "Socialise at your peril in Indian district". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
"Hindu radicals risk sectarian tension by pushing 'love jihad' conspiracy theory". Agence France-Presse. 26 October 2014. Retrieved 2020-09-19 – via South China Morning Post.
Daniyal, Shoaib; Yamunan, Sruthisagar (31 August 2017). "Love jihad bogey: Hadiya committed no crime. Why has she been in confinement for a year now?". Scroll.in. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Vetticad, Anna MM (23 July 2020). "Let's talk about the Hindu-Muslim amity in Sushant Singh Rajput's films, and other inconvenient truths". Firstpost. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Bhattacharjee, Manash Firaq (19 December 2019). "An Unnatural Politics and the Madness of the Indian State". The Wire. Retrieved 2020-09-19.
Chandni Doulatramani (13 March 2019). "Ad on Hindu-Muslim unity gets far right in a twist". Asia Times. Retrieved 2020-09-19. |
- Your examples of incidents, as a whole, consist of a batch of allegations with no confirmed cases of "Love Jihad". None of the divorce cases you have cited involved courts that commented on the existence of "Love Jihad" as a phenomenon. The books you have linked do not show that "Love Jihad" is not a conspiracy theory, and are not an adequate rebuttal for the numerous high-quality reliable sources I have provided above that show that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory. By removing the conspiracy theory descriptor from the first sentence in Special:Diff/979473860, you have violated the Wikipedia:Fringe theories § Unwarranted promotion of fringe theories (WP:PROFRINGE) guideline.
- MOS:FIRST states "The first sentence should tell the nonspecialist reader what, or who, the subject is." "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory, so the first sentence should label "Love Jihad" with the conspiracy theory descriptor. — Newslinger talk 03:57, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with Newslinger. Including "conspiracy theory" in the first sentence is in accord with Wikipedia style guidelines and good common sense. XOR'easter (talk) 16:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- You appear to be looking for the sources that somehow fits your narrative. Profoundly unreliable sources like The Wire, Scroll and other unreliable sources don't even come close to consideration.
- WP:NPOV is important. The lead should not be non-neutral, nor it should be providing weight to slant point of views. Like I said, most reliable sources don't call it a conspiracy theory and if you are going to quote farm the sources then you can see these much better reliable sources:-
On the hother hand, anti-conversion legislation has become a political tool for majoritarian identity politics. In addition, the question of mixed marriage and 'Love Jihad' has come to the fore in anti-Muslim discourses across the region. 'Love Jihad' refers to a claimed Islamist conspiracy whereby Muslim men trick non-Muslim women into marriage as a means to spread Islam.
Marius Timmann Mjaaland. Formatting Religion: Across Politics, Education, Media, and Law. Taylor & Francis.
"Courts also recognized the phenomenon of Love Jihad and commented against it in various cases. On 9 December 2009, Justice K T Sankaran of the Kerala High Court, suspected a clear love jihad angle, during a bail hearing for a Muslim youth arrested for allegedly forcibly converting two campus girls. According to Sankaran, police reports revealed that the 'blessings of some outfits' for a 'concerted' effort for religious conversions. Some 3,000 to 4,000 conversion incidences had taken place after love affairs in a four year period.... In 2017, CBI filed a charge sheet in an alleged case of 'Love Jihad' involving national-level shooter Tara Shahdeo. It was filed against Ranjeet Singh Kohli, who she had alleged had forced her to covert to marry him. The charge sheet was filed in Ranchi court under sections of criminal conspiracy, sexual assault, domestic violence and fraudulently organizing a marriage ceremony without a lawful wedding. After the marriage, Shahdeo, found that Kohli's real name was Raqibul Hasan Khan. She told the police and the CBI that she was tortured for over a month to accept her husband's religion...
Shantanu Gupta. The Monk Who Became Chief Minister: The Definitive Biography Of Yogi Adityanath. Bloomsbury Publishing.
- Now unless your sources are capable to address the incidents where convicted cases of 'love jihad' are addressed or they do tell how all of the reported victims, not just in India but also in Myanmar, United Kingdom, etc. are also a part of this 'conspiracy', it would totally make no sense. The lead is fine without that problematic term. Rustam Fan (talk) 00:42, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing any "convicted cases" that show that "Love Jihad" is a real phenomenon. Farokhi (first academic source from my initial comment above) makes it very clear that "Love Jihad" is a "conspiracy theory" and a "campaign started by right-wing Hindu nationalists in 2009". Farokhi's analysis was published by Routledge earlier this month, and her analysis is more reliable, more comprehensive, and more recent than anything you've presented.
Your two excerpts show that "Love Jihad" is part of "anti-Muslim discourses", and that people have made allegations of "Love Jihad". That is not mutually exclusive with "Love Jihad" being a conspiracy theory; conspiracy theories are a subset of claimed conspiracies. The Kerala case ended in 2012, when Kerala police concluded after a two-year investigation that "Love Jihad" was "A campaign with no substance", and then charged a website which propagated the "Love Jihad" conspiracy theory for "spreading religious hatred and false propaganda".
The neutral point of view policy includes WP:FALSEBALANCE, which states that "Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity." Although some people have made unconfirmed allegations of "Love Jihad" (an extraordinary claim), the mainstream scholarship and most recent reliable sources overwhelmingly consider "Love Jihad" to be a conspiracy theory or fabricated claim created by "right-wing Hindu nationalists".
To show that "Love Jihad" is not a conspiracy theory, you would need to find a majority of high-quality academic sources which state that "Love Jihad" is not a conspiracy theory, and not merely that it is a "claimed conspiracy" or that people have made allegations of "Love Jihad". At the present time, the mainstream scholarship supports describing "Love Jihad" as a "conspiracy theory" in the lead section. — Newslinger talk 01:37, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- Additionally, both The Wire and Scroll.in are reliable sources on the basis of their accolades, which include multiple Ramnath Goenka Excellence in Journalism Awards. The nine reliable news sources I have listed above include a variety of reputable publications from a number of countries. Regardless, the scholarship by itself is sufficient to establish that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory. — Newslinger talk 03:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing any "convicted cases" that show that "Love Jihad" is a real phenomenon. Farokhi (first academic source from my initial comment above) makes it very clear that "Love Jihad" is a "conspiracy theory" and a "campaign started by right-wing Hindu nationalists in 2009". Farokhi's analysis was published by Routledge earlier this month, and her analysis is more reliable, more comprehensive, and more recent than anything you've presented.
- Now unless your sources are capable to address the incidents where convicted cases of 'love jihad' are addressed or they do tell how all of the reported victims, not just in India but also in Myanmar, United Kingdom, etc. are also a part of this 'conspiracy', it would totally make no sense. The lead is fine without that problematic term. Rustam Fan (talk) 00:42, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
In short, “Love Jihad” is an alleged scheme through which Muslim men, pretending to be liberal, often at first hiding their religion and using contemporary seduction tactics, lure non-Muslim women into marriage
by Journal of Alternative Perspectives in the Social Sciences (2016) Volume 7 No 3, 355-399
Love jihad is a term used to describe alleged campaigns carried out by Muslim men targeting non-Muslim women for conversion to Islam by feigning love.
"Who Is the Muslim? Discursive Representations of the Muslims and Islam in Indian Prime-Time News".
Love Jihad is perceived as a movement in which Muslim men try to persuade Hindu women to change their religion to Islam by seducing them. The aim of such activities is the islamization of India, reducing the number of Hindu people and taking control over the state
"Obraz kobiety w dyskusji na temat zjawiska Love Jihad w Indiach". Jagiellonian University.
so called Love Jihad, in other words a strategy allegedly deployed by Muslims to woo young Hindu women
Angana P. Chatterji, Thomas Blom Hansen, Christophe Jaffrelot (2019). Majoritarian State: How Hindu Nationalism is Changing India. Oxford University Press. p. 57. ISBN 9780190083403.{{cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
- Do you think you can find a better critical source than Thomas Blom Hansen, Christophe Jaffrelot for this subject?
- And here is a 20 page journal by Univeristy of Chicago Press Journal which does not say it is a conspiracy theory or anything similar.
- You have said that it is a "A campaign with no substance", how that is any different than "alleged" act? No one is saying here to call it a proven act. Rustam Fan (talk) 04:18, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- Conspiracy theories are a subset of alleged conspiracies. A source stating that "Love Jihad" is an alleged conspiracy or "alleged camapign" does not refute the fact that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory. The phrase "A campaign with no substance" refers to the campaign to popularize the "Love Jihad" conspiracy theory. The article states, "A renewed campaign about love jihad was noticed recently following which Intelligence wing chief A. Hemachandran ordered a probe. Police said they found fake posters on the website [www.hindujagruti.org, which was charged by the Kerala police] purportedly published by a Muslim outfit offering Rs350,000 to Rs800,000 to Muslim youths for trapping girls and converting them into Islam. The cyber police have traced the brain behind the website to north India and zeroed in on its chief promoter." I have listed nine reliable news sources above, your criticism of two of them does not refute the other seven. — Newslinger talk 04:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- You have said that it is a "A campaign with no substance", how that is any different than "alleged" act? No one is saying here to call it a proven act. Rustam Fan (talk) 04:18, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment, I would agree that we should avoid calling this a 'conspiracy theory' since the subject has been taken seriously by enough academics as described above by Rustam Fan. Here is another recent source,[23] which shows the existence of this phenomenon has been confirmed by an official. The article appears to have always said that it is "alleged" to be happening, it is not confirming the existence, but I am fine with that. Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست (talk) 01:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- The source you have provided only shows
claimsa request from Yogi Adityanath, a politician affiliated with the right-wing, Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). Being a politician does not make one an expert in sociology, and politicians are not substitutes for or adequate rebuttals against actual scholarship. The majority of academics note that people (like Yogi Adityanath) have alleged that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy, but these academics also describe "Love Jihad" as a conspiracy theory created by "right-wing Hindu nationalists". — Newslinger talk 01:49, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- The source you have provided only shows
- It notes statements by an official, not Yogi Adityanath who only allowed setting up an inquiry after receiving enough reports. You are misunderstanding the source entirely. Majority of academics treat it as a plausible act or an alleged activity. "Conspiracy theory" is a very different thing. Azuredivay (talk) 02:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- The source states, "Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath has asked officials to formulate a strategy and 'bring an ordinance if required to prevent religious conversions in the name of love', an official said on Friday." The officials were acting under the direction of politician Adityanath. Further, this is a news report, and news reports rank below scholarship in terms of reliability. For the scholarship, see the excerpts from Farokhi, George, and Nair/Vollhardt above, as well as this excerpt from Economic and Political Weekly below (emphasis added):
- It notes statements by an official, not Yogi Adityanath who only allowed setting up an inquiry after receiving enough reports. You are misunderstanding the source entirely. Majority of academics treat it as a plausible act or an alleged activity. "Conspiracy theory" is a very different thing. Azuredivay (talk) 02:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The fake claim by the Hindu right that there is a “Love Jihad” organisation which is forcing Hindu women to convert to Islam through false expressions of love is similar to a campaign in the 1920s in north India against alleged “abductions”. Whether 1920 or 2009, Hindu patriarchal notions appear deeply entrenched in such campaigns: images of passive victimised Hindu women at the hands of inscrutable Muslims abound, and any possibility of women exercising their legitimate right to love and their right to choice is ignored.
Inter-religious love and marriages are a tricky terrain. They challenge various norms and customs and arouse passions of religious fundamentalists. The “threat” of such intimacies has often resulted in “constructed” campaigns, expressing the anxieties and fears of conservative forces. In India, the Hindu right particularly has been a master at creating panics around expressions of love, be it the Valentine Day, homosexual love or inter-caste and inter-religious romance, posing them as one of the biggest threats to cohesive community identities and boundaries.
The latest in such constructs by the Hindu right is the alleged “Love Jihad” or “Romeo Jihad” organisation, supposed to have been launched by Muslim fundamentalists and youthful Muslim men to convert Hindu and Christian women to Islam through trickery and expressions of false love.
Gupta, Charu (19 December 2009). "Hindu women, Muslim men: Love Jihad and conversions" (PDF). Economic and Political Weekly. 44 (51): 13–15 – via ResearchGate.
- How a source from 2009 is capable to address later investigations and court decisions confirming existence of love jihad?
- So you admit that you misrepresented the source by mislabeling claim of an official as one by Yogi Adityanath? You are claiming now that "The officials were acting under the direction of politician Adityanath", to escape from the allegation of misrepresentation but remember that editors are not here to hear your own conspiracy theories.
- You claim to have formed 'consensus' by posting logically flawed argument on talk page? Rustam Fan (talk) 04:22, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- I have provided four academic sources so far, Farokhi (September 2020), George (2016), Nair/Vollhardt (2019), and Gupta (2009), which explain that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory or fabricated claim. These publications agree that "Love Jihad" is an alleged conspiracy, and they also state that "Love Jihad" is a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are subsets of alleged conspiracies; they are not mutually exclusive. I've changed "claims" to "a request" above for precision. — Newslinger talk 04:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
- Can we agree to change the lead to something different? We can cover both point of views. Maybe by writing: "Love Jihad or Romeo Jihad is a scheme or a conspiracy theory, according to which Muslim men target women belonging to non-Muslim communities for conversion to Islam by feigning love."
- What do you think? Rustam Fan (talk) 04:51, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
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