User talk:Angusmclellan

Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 December 27

I have decided to withdraw the nominations for now to see how History of BBC television idents can be improved upon. Although the arguments in favour of keeping the image are sometimes a little dubious and neatly sidestep the idea of adding more relevent text in their place, I'll see what can be done before any deleting takes place. I'll give it a couple of months and probably try again. Wikiwoohoo (talk) 18:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Gerrit Mannoury.jpg

Hi, thanks for the "Deleted old revision 20100103003949" of the Gerrit_Mannoury.jpg image. Now I wonder if you could delete some more old versions. In the last two days (2-3 jan (see my user contributions) I have reduced the size of about 35 fair-use images (for a better compliance with fair-use regulations). Most of those images I uploaded myself. I think it would be even better if all of those images would be removed? -- Mdd (talk) 21:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your work and the tip: I gave the {{non-free reduced}} template a try. -- Mdd (talk) 21:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

File:District-9 advertising Canterbury Tail 25 June 2009.jpg

I notice you closed this PUF as keep based on Commons:Commons:Freedom of panorama#Canada, but freedom of panorama only applies to 2D reproductions of buildings or 3D artworks. Direct quote from that page: "The freedom provided by the quoted section does not apply to typical two-dimensional works such as paintings, murals, advertising hoardings, maps, posters or signs." Can you please reclose as delete. Stifle (talk) 12:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

What can I say? Oops probably. Close updated. Will delete the image shortly. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:35, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Re:Baffled, puzzled, confused, don't understand

LOL overzealous. Yes, you do have a point. But I do think that it is fair to say that I only try to nominate files which are orphaned or have no real foreseeable use. Wikipedia has enough of these unused files laying around and frankly, it's not like Commons needs all of them either (as if there weren't enough over there). I concur that good quality, but useful files should be retained despite being orphaned, but remember, Wikipedia is not an orphanage! All I'm trying to do is to do my part to cleanup. -FASTILY_sock^(TALK) 02:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Edokter and WP:UNINVOLVED

I saw your choice of edit summary here, which I happen to agree with. Please see User_talk:Edokter#Please_be_mindful_of_WP:UNINVOLVED. Unfortunately, it appears this is a pattern of behavior with Edokter (talk · contribs) and failure to abide by WP:UNINVOLVED. Perhaps further discussion of this might be appropriate? Cirt (talk) 06:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia can be a barrel of fun!

Saw your comment on Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Holdone and couldn't stop laughing, literally. My sides hurt. What a win, Just thought it shouldn't go unnoticed :) Outback the koala (talk) 07:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Sir Noel Power.jpg.jpg

Your decision is simply unfair. There were equal number of people who supported and opposed the deletion. But you came, you left your comment, and then you deleted the photo right away. You did not give chance for others to give feedback on your comment. I strongly protest that the discussion should be reopened.--Clithering (talk) 13:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

The policy which determines whether and where and when we can use non-free pictures such as this one is Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. This states: "To avoid deletion, the uploading editor or another Wikipedian will need to provide a convincing non-free-use defense that satisfies all 10 criteria. ... Note that it is the duty of users seeking to include or retain content to provide a valid rationale; those seeking to remove or delete it are not required to show that one cannot be created—see burden of proof." That's the basis of my comments. And the comments are there not as a "vote" but to explain why the result was as it was. I assume that you wouldn't have found the single word delete to have been a very satisfactory explanation. As I said in my comment, I think this image has more problem meeting the requirements of #8 than #1, but restricting my comments to #1 it was clear from your comments that no effort had been made to find a free image beyond a simple search on Google. Apparently this was not judged to be sufficient by two editors who commented. Jheald's contrary view seemed to rest on a blanket presumption that non-free photographs of dead people are automatically irreplaceable. I see no basis in policy for that view. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me how sad it is that Wikipedia:Files for deletion is not a place for mutual discussion. Now I have a few points in regarding to your comments:

the uploading editor or another Wikipedian will need to provide a convincing non-free-use defense

I believe adequate rationales were provided in the info page when the photo was uploaded. I wonder did you really read that page and can you retell what rationales were provided.

Nobody saw any need to add a free image during the several years

This is a rather subjective comment. No one added a free image does not mean no one saw the need. The reason may be because people saw it too difficult to obtain a free photo and gave up. There are many HK-related biographies have been left unattended to in Wikipedia, but you cannot dismiss the fact that there is a need to upload images for them.

it was clear from your comments that no effort had been made to find a free image beyond a simple search on Google

This is an obvious error of judgement and a grave accusation. How clear was it? In fact, much effort had been made to search a free photo in different sources, but the effort was in vain. If you have some idea to find an free image of the late justice, why don't you share here? The current photo was obtained from a webpage of a museum where I think is an appropriate source.

Lastly, there are many fair-use photos, such as File:RoyJenkins.jpg and File:LordWeatherill.jpg, were uploaded without meeting objection. I think you need to take action fairly and reconsider my case. Thanks again.--Clithering (talk) 16:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

If I thought I had made a gross error, such as the one Stifle pointed out at #File:District-9 advertising Canterbury Tail 25 June 2009.jpg above, I would change this close as I did in that case. I don't thing I did so I won't. When a decent interval has passed it will surely be possible to contact the family and ask them to donate a picture of Sir Noel. Or find a public domain one. Until then we can do without one just as we did without for several years. If you'd like to dispute the deletion, please try Wikipedia:Deletion review. Whatever people may say there, the actual policy here is clear. It's up to you to show that a free image cannot be obtained and you have not done so. Until you contact the subject's family you will not have come close to exhausting every avenue.

It would be fair to add that I disagree with the rationales you provided for File:SirTLYang.jpg and File:Yuet Keung Kan.jpg: the non-free content guideline states that non-free images of living people are almost always replaceable. I'd suggest looking at alternatives such as contacting the subjects and asking for a free picture. Or you could always do what was done with Power, whether by accident or design: wait for them to die and then claim no free image can be obtained.

Finally, given that there are around a third of a million non-free images on this Wikipedia it would be very unwise to draw any conclusions from the existence of other pictures or from the rationales offered for their use. "Other stuff exists" is generally considered to be an argument to avoid at AfD at least and so it proves here too. The Weatherill one is assuredly not an acceptable use of a non-free image and I have tagged it accordingly. The Jenkins one is debateable so I have opened the debate. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Shannon O'Donnell Maureen Naylor

How come these files are being non-disputed as such that they are not qualified to be on wikipedia? However, for some photos, they are allowed to be on Wikipedia? What is the problems with my photos that I uploaded?

JD2635 (talk) 21:48, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Changeux's picture

Hello,

This story is getting ridiculous. With the help of Changeux himself I have been trying to fix the situation. We have tried all the licenses, sent all the e-mail requested. We are just fine for a while, and then someone come and complain again, or worse delete the picture without warning. It is like an iterative nightmare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lenov (talk • contribs) 22:52, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Some other websites using this picture of Changeux (it is the one of the pictures he systematically provides): http://www.freebase.com/search?limit=30&start=0&query=changeux, http://www.canalacademie.eu/spip.php?article4852, http://cinp.org/congress/past-events/munich-2008/awards-2008/cinp-pioneer-award/, http://www.medicine.uottawa.ca/uobmri/fra/evenements.html, http://plgomes.blogspot.com/2009/11/changeux-neurociencia-e-conhecimento.html, http://fens2008.neurosciences.asso.fr/pages/program.html, http://www.monumenta.com/2008/content/view/69, http://www.inb.u-bordeaux2.fr/siteneuro2/pages/Lundisemin/archisemin/archSemin07/Changeux.php, http://www.admiroutes.asso.fr/larevue/2009/94/changeux.htm, http://www.canalacademie.com/Hommage-a-Jean-Bernard,1126.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lenov (talk • contribs) 23:08, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Changeux just CCed me the email he sent to wikimedia, confirming that this picture is in the public domain. Could-you or someone suppress the deletion procedure please. Thank-you. Nicolas Le Novere (talk) 12:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Forteviot Bronze Age tomb

Hi, Angus. Can I ask which book shop you purchased the 'Forteviot dagger burial? Jack forbes (talk) 23:30, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Jack, it's just a short two page notice in History Scotland magazine (which you might be able to get in a big newsagents). I can send you a copy if you have your email enabled. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:34, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I've just enabled my email now, Angus. That would be great if you could send it. Jack forbes (talk) 23:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

No bother, Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:44, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I've just ticked the box to enable other users to send email. Missed it the first time, sorry. Jack forbes (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Uí Duach Argetrois

I came across them in your sandbox. Our sources do not agree, and they are either Corcu Loígde proper (MacCotter) or belong to the Uí Fidgenti-Liatháin block (Bhreathnach). See here for support for the latter. Possibly there were two distinct Uí Duach in Munster. But I suspect the early Uí Fidgenti-Liatháin had a special gravity for attracting septs of the Dáirine not seated inside the borders of Corcu Loígde proper. DinDraithou (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Re:A solution for image license/source/whatever problems: delegation and teamwork

I just happened to check in things when I saw your message. Thank you for your recommendation. I do believe it is a very good one. Even though I will not write anymore articles for Wikipedia, mostly because of what has been discussed before and because I have health problems, I will at times check into the situation of some of the images. I was disapointed that the "Nurses at Tortuguero" image was deleted because it was obvious that the image was a group or platoon image taken by the military as only such an image would have been permitted. I want to wish you and your loved ones a lot of blessings this new year. Take care. Tony the Marine (talk) 07:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

re:Help with an image

Hi Angusmclellan. I didn't see any public domain notice but I'm not familiar with the website. --Jmundo (talk) 13:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Puerto Rican images with problems

Hello Angusmclellan, I created a Wikilink to a subpage in Project Puerto Rico which will lead to "PR images with problems, view it here: [1]. I then created the page: WikiProject Puerto Rico/Images with problems. I would like it if you to wrote an introduction on the page, explaining the purpose, time limits and so on. I will then post the news of the page creation on the talk pages of other interested users and ask them to place it in their "watchlists". Feel free to make any corrections and tell me what you think. Tony the Marine (talk) 00:54, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Source material fully quoted

You stated that our policy on verifiability "discourages" us from posting the actual source material. Could you quote the exact language where you're getting this from, so I can review it ? Thanks.Wjhonson (talk) 10:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The "Access to sources" section isn't envisaging that the entire source document is being uploaded to Wikipedia. The implication seems clear to me. You may very well disagree but please don't feel under any obligation to tell me so at length. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Dr. Zakir Naik.jpg

yes,i didn't check the dates,mistake i think the file should be moved to commons then.Linguisticgeek (talk) 12:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Then why keep this copy on the english wiki.delete it then.Linguisticgeek (talk) 12:36, 12 January 2010 (UTC).thanks for the info anyways an advice please archive your talk page it takes a hell lot of time to download.Linguisticgeek (talk) 12:51, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Paper

Thank you very much, Angus. I have sent you an email from a new account. I actually don't use email very much these days and it turns out the account I used for Wikipedia was getting flooded from a Facebook account I regret starting. In the meantime I have come across this new paper on Saint Ruadán, who belonged to the Uí Duach. Judyta Szacillo (pp. 50 ff) discusses the question of their official descent from the Eóganachta, presumably meaning the Uí Fidgenti/Uí Liatháin block, as I have seen no other pedigree for them.

http://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/QUEST/FileStore/Issue8MARSConference/Filetoupload,146273,en.pdf DinDraithou (talk) 13:46, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Urban Outfitters Image

It's not "my" image. If you have a problem with the image, then you should take up your issue with whoever uploaded the photo in the first place and on the image's page — whether or not the issue belongs in the UO article, however is fairly clear... it's illustrating the item in as discussed in the article. 842U (talk) 16:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding "Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Starbus-with-AMT.jpg"

Hello Angusmclellan,

I have added information in "Replaceable?" section of "Non-free use rationale" template and have also removed the tag you placed over the following images :-

• File:Hybrid-Starbus.jpg
• File:Tata-Sumo-Grande-MK-II.jpg
• File:Tata-Indigo-MANZA.jpg
• File:Tata-PRIMA-truck.jpg
• File:Tata-Xenon-CNG.jpg
• File:Tata-MAGIC-IRIS.jpg
• File:Manza.jpg
• File:Starbus-with-AMT.jpg

I hope this have sufficiently addressed your concern.

regards, --Anmol.2k4 (talk) 16:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Non Free Images

You questioned the "non-free" images on the Old Forge Blue Devils page. Let me make one thing clear for the n'th time. I own these photos. They are very old. They are probably the only ones in existence. The photographer is most likely dead. There is no copyright on them. Why do these photos bother people? I don't understand. They are historical to the people of Old Forge, Pennsylvania, and I have gotten many compliments for posting them. Lou72JG (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

These images have all, I think, been deleted once or twice. You keep uploading them and they keep getting deleted. Wikipedia:non-free content aims to explain when and where you can use images that are apparently still copyrighted. The kinds of images which are acceptable and where are here. And even if one picture, or two, would be OK, there are currently seven. This is excessive when our goal is to use as little non-free material as possible. If you think the images should be here, and evidently you do, I'd encourage you to ask about the pictures at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions to see what others think. Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

The only reason I chose "non-free" for the license information is because thet last two time I chose public domain, which they basically are, and they were deleted. There is no copyright on these photos....none at all. Lou72JG (talk) 19:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Image removal

My issue is much the same as above. You questioned the"non-free" status of an image I created, I own, reporoduced, and am the subject of. What's the problem? Why did you remove the image from album: Bliss Wishes by L. Cedeño?

Etrangere (talk) 10:09, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Legally the image would most likely be owned by one of (a) the record company E.M.7 or (b) the graphic designer who created the cover. Unless you are one or both of these the image won't belong to you as the derivative work article explains. If you do represent the copyright holder then there are a number of things need to happen to put the image back. Let me know if this is the case and I can explain these. If you want to use the image even though you don't own it then you need to "The cover of an album or single" and the "in an infobox about the album/single" options from the Wikipedia:Upload page. Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

As explained in the info box with the image: I am the record label as verifiable through BMI. I am the graphic designer who created the image from a photograph I took myself. I am also the subject in the photograph. Does that about cover it?

Page moved

Hello Angus, just thought that I would drop by to let you know that some one moved "WikiProject Puerto Rico/Images with problems" to Wikipedia:WikiProject Puerto Rico/Images with problems, in case you didn't know. Tony the Marine (talk) 18:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Helioculture image.jpg

If you ever need some grafical drawing please check out my response to your post at my talk page. Best, The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk)

Thanks

Thanks for your feedback on my new biographical articles about Charles S. Zane, Lily Eskelsen, and John F. Fitzpatrick (publisher). My first efforts, Utah Education Association and Dennis Van Roekel, were more stubby, but I think I'm getting the hand of this, and I appreciate your feedback.--Thelema12 (talk) 15:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Request

Hello Angus, In the "Puerto Rican images with problems" I found the book from which I obtained the images of "Alfonso Valdes" and "Sylvia del Villard" and posted them in the images files. Damien placed a question under the image if Alfonso Valdes, which since I am not to savvy in this, which I do not understand and since I do not want to give him the wrong answer, I was wondering if you could help me. Thank you Tony the Marine (talk) 15:34, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Broun

Alright, so my opinion is that while much of what he offers is insightful, it falls apart eventually. Basically he bases his speculation that the royal line was Pictish on nothing but the names of Britain and the 'Gabranaig'. We can hardly include it when the author himself admits to speculating and offers not even any good indirect evidence. Broun also fails to discuss the accepted Cenél Loairn pedigree of Macbeth's family or the Kingdom of Moray at all. Where are they? What about their role in the 8th century? He's happy to discuss the Eóganachta and Munster. It's no wonder the paper has not made it to more than a few collections in the world, and why Woolf appears conflicted about Broun's conclusions. What do you think? DinDraithou (talk) 16:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The paper is cited by Woolf multiple times in both Pictland to Alba and the chapter in A Companion to the Early Middle Ages. A good two thirds of the material appears in much the same form in Broun's Scottish Independence and the Idea of Britain, which parts are cited in Evans, "Royal succession and kingship among the Picts". It doesn't seem to have vanished without trace.

If the Cenél Loairn pedigrees are not being taken up as evidence by Broun or Woolf, it is because they are not accepted as genuine. If you look at ¶1697 in the Rawlinson B 502 genealogies (Máel Snechtai's pedigree), Woolf ("The "Moray Question"...", which Broun is presumably following here) divides this into three parts. From Máel Snechtai back to the first Ruadrí matches the evidence of the annals. From "Ailgelach" (obit AU 719.6) on back to Eochaid Munremar it is a pedigree from the Primchenéla. These are probably from the early C8th (there's a copy online of the Senchus, with the attached Primchenéla, here, but with one important mistake for our purposes: the pedigree starting "Mongan mc domnaill" is not Cenél Comgaill as the website states but instead follows that of Ainbcellech in the Cenél Loairn section; it is the pedigree that follows it, that starting "Echtgach mc nechtain", which is headed up as Cenél Comgaill). That leaves the section from Domnall to the second Ruadrí. Not only is the pedigree far too short - four names to cover about three centuries, so probably around four or five generations too few - but the content is also thought suspicious. If Morrgán is taken to be a misreading of Mongán, then all four of those names appear in the pedigree of Mongán mac Domnaill which follows that of Ainbcellach. For these reasons, or so I recall, Woolf presumes the pedigree to be an C11th confection aiming to provide Clann Ruaidrí with a suitably prestigious patrilineal descent, in line with their (newly?) elevated status. Woolf writes (p. 257 of A Companion) "Clann Ruaidrí seem to have been based in the region of Moray, and it is possible that they inherited their claim from the family of Aed." He presumes, in "The "Moray Question"...", that this link may have been matrilineal, so explaining the absence of a pedigree connecting Clann Ruaidrí with Cináed. Such a link would surely have been the most obvious way of demonstrating their king-worthiness, but only if it could have been swallowed by the audience.

But as for Cináed's Gaelicness, Woolf says (on p. 252 of the file you sent me), "there was, in his lifetime, no hint that [Cináed] was of Gaelic origin" ,and (p. 262), "what we can say is that, despite the apparent Pictish character of the dynasty in the later ninth century, by the 990s they wished to be regarded as Gaels". In Pictland to Alba (pp. 116–117) he does indeed note the poem at AU 878.3 connecting Aed with Argyll, and says, "if this is a genuine ninth-century lament, it may bear witness to two facts about Áed. His kindred were no longer ruling in Argyll but it was believed that they had done so in the past." He also makes the same point as Broun (at p. 105): that CKA's record of the reign of Domnall mac Ailpín, where the "laws of Áed son of Eochaid" are mentioned, should not be read as saying that Domnall was "king of the Gaels". Where Woolf and Broun differ is over the importance of the apparent name change circa 900, but that's not especially relevant to Cináed's time. The articles on Domnall mac Causantín and Causantín mac Áeda currently follow Woolf's line of thinking, at least as it is set out in Pictland to Alba.

Do you have access to the Scottish Historical Review on MUSE or something like that? Clancy's "Iona in the kingdom of the Picts: a note" would be worth a look. It is very short. If not, I can certainly send you that and "The "Moray Question"..." (some of which I find rather unconvincing, but that doesn't count for much).

As for the Eóganacht, Fraser, in Caledonia to Pictland, assumed the link to be the product of political expedience. Heading off at a bit of a tangent, I started writing Lang Stane of Auquhollie yesterday since there's a fair bit on it in that Broun paper. I've looked at what the Celtic Inscribed Stones Project says about it. It seems that there's a name on it. It may read, in part, "Dovoni...", about where one might expect a patronymic, or a gentilic, to appear. If you were thinking there might be a link to Munster, and if you had a name that read "something Dovoni-something", wouldn't "Dovvinias" and Corco Duibne come to mind as a likely solution? Coincidence perhaps, but it would be easier to understand a link to the Eóganacht being confected if there was a pre-existing link with Iarmumu believed to exist. As an idea I don't see that this is worse than any other wild guess, but alas!, it is not suitable for Wikipedia. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually it is borderline suitable and I just need to find where I've read about the early connection. One Munster tradition has it that the Dál Riata first occupied the West of Munster but for some reason left, to be replaced by their Corcu Duibne kinsmen. I think it is in the Conaire cycle somewhere, which I need to read again, and so I will bundle up both De Sil Chonairi Móir and De Maccaib Conaire and send them to you soon. One consistent theme is that the Dál Riata, Múscraige, Corcu Duibne and Corcu Baiscinn belong to a "dispersed and wandering" group of the Érainn more closely associated with each other than with the more "established" Ulaid/Dál Fiatach and Dáirine/Corcu Loígde. This is supported by the tradition (discussed by O'Rahilly and others) that the Múscraige, most closely associated with the Corcu Duibne, at some point turned against the Corcu Loígde and supported the Eóganachta. This may very well be where Munster really began to turn upside down, before the Osraige were lost. And let us not forget the historical favoured status of the Múscraige under the Cashel kings, and at the right time for us in Scotland. Maybe we should assume Corc Duibne to be an invention for a sept of the Músraige particularly interested in the assets of an Érainn ancestor/goddess Dovinia. Or maybe the Dál Riata invited along some of their kinsmen (who after all really knew their oghams) to the North.

Broun is missing about where else Gabrán and similar forms can be found. Another Gabrán became Gowran in County Kilkenny, interestingly in far east Munster, in old Ossory (a conspiracy?). Yet another might be the Gabra in Uí Chonaill Gabra, of the Uí Fidgenti, again in Munster, but in west County Limerick.

Maybe I've been misled about the Moray pedigree somewhere, so I would like to see "The Moray Question". I don't have access to the Scottish Historical Review.

Oh but just before posting I've thought of something problematical. The inner circle Eóganachta really hated the Eóganacht Locha Léin of Iarmuman, and the Eóganacht Glendamnach, to whom Cathal mac Finguine belonged, had recently enough been at war with the ELL.

Personally I don't feel compelled to accept Broun's conclusions because he devotes part of his paper to saying they can't be conclusions. On the ancestry of Kenneth's dynasty, the suggestion that long established royals were incapable of remembering even ancestor figures, or deliberately forgot about them, is basically absurd and unprecedented. This new crowd in Scottish studies evidently aren't familiar with how the Irish, Welsh, and the Gauls and Celts in general, treated their distant ancestors, human or divine. Fabrications are only needed for upstarts, new arrivals, and for vassals in the Celtic World. DinDraithou (talk) 00:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I've emailed the Moray paper, and the Clancy one. Yes, indeed, the pass of Gowran does seem to have been missed. Never say never because someone is sure to find an example you didn't. I'm not sure I've ever seen my bad idea repeated anywhere else, but it's very hard indeed to come up with anything truly original and downright impossible to have read everything.

It'll be difficult to find historians who would agree wholeheartedly with the view of genealogies in your final paragraph. Dumville's "Kingship, Genealogies and Regnal Lists" (1977) is fairly widely cited. It doesn't take an ultra-skeptical view, but still sees genealogies as being about ideology as much as biological reality, so too does the Ó Corráin lecture I linked to a while back. Even kindreds with perfectly good pedigrees are said to have improved them. Clann Cholmáin would likely be the best example, and twice over if their learned experts, rather than those of Síl nÁedo Sláine, turned one Conall son of Niall into two, as they were surely responsible for turning one Colmán son Diarmait into two. If that's what happened. Byrne accepts that it did in the introduction to the latest edition of Irish Kings and High-Kings.

It's also difficult to identify which historians who write about early medieval Scotland, if any, are offering an alternative to the arguments advanced by such as Broun, Clancy, Forsyth, Fraser and Woolf. Benjamin Hudson might do, although he doesn't seem to have written anything covering this period since The Kings of Celtic Scotland (1994). Archie Duncan, who represents an earlier generation than these, doesn't dispute the general idea (Kingship of the Scots, p. 9): "Recent scholars, however, have offered an alternative view reducing the catastrophic nature of Cinaed's succession by emphasising the usage of annalists, presumably contemporary, wherein kings from 842 to 878 are 'kings of Picts' and only in 900 is Domnall II, at his death, 'king of Alba'. This does not tell us how Cinaed became king, but it does suggest a continuity which is more believable than the slaughter legend, especially if Alba is indeed a Pictish name." He then goes on, as Broun says, to suggest that we should look to the reign of Giric as being a critical period. Which would be fine if we knew the first thing about it, but we don't. On p. 35, in the only discussion of genealogy I can find, he remarks: "The genealogist's concern was not with kingship among the generations, but rather with descent from distinguished or heroic ancestors in remote antiquity, and it is possible, indeed likely, that such pedigrees were fabricated to join a successful 'new' king to an ancient line of ancestors. The ancestry of Macbeth and Lulach may be the result of such pedigree-making, linking them to Loarn son of Erc, while Maelcoluim II descended from Fergus son of Erc."

Woolf uses the word "alleged" of Cináed's ancestry (Pictland to Alba, p. 320 321): "We seem, simultaneously, to be presented with evidence that suggests both, on the one hand, a Scottish conquest of Pictavia and, on the other, dynastic continuity through this period. A Scottish king-list compiled in the mid-twelfth century extends back through the Pictish king-list, suggesting that kings of that period saw themselves as heirs of the Pictish kings. The link between Cináed son of Alpín's alleged Dál Riatan ancestry and the idea that the kingship of Alba itself was a continuation of that of Dál Riata seems to have been fully formulated only in the late eleventh or twelfth centuries. It is even possible that this revised stance was the work of partisans of Macbethad or Lulach whose claims to patrilineal kinship with the ruling house were to be sought in Dál Riatan times. Likewise, the major churches of the kingdom, such as St Andrews, Dunkeld and Abernethy, together with lesser churches such as Deer, Culross and Loch Leven, seem to have promoted the idea that they had a continuous history originating in Pictish times and their origin legends appear to regard the kingdom ruled by the Picts as the same kingdom as that ruled by more recent kings. The idea, well known today, that there was a union of the Picts and Scots is a very late development, originating in the period after the Union of Scotland and England in 1707, a classic example of writing the past in the image of the present. The contemporary and near-contemporary evidence would seem to suggest that the Pictish kingdom suffered a political takeover by a Gaelic-speaking group but retained its integrity - much as England remained England despite the Norman Conquest. Against this interpretation seems to [be] the incontrovertible evidence that the Alpínid dynasty provided both the last Pictish and first Scottish kings. [para] One possible explanation for the political transformation of Pictavia into Albania would be to attribute a Scottish, that is to say Gaelic, conquest of Pictavia by Giric son of Dúngal. We have seen (in chapter 3) that later versions of the king-list include the statement that Giric 'first gave liberty to the Scottish church, which, up to that time, had laboured under the customs and mores of the Picts', and this may bear witness to popular or ecclesiastical beliefs about his role. Although after his death, or expulsion, the Alpínid dynasty he had supplanted returned, it may be that the nature of his 'regime change' has been such that certain aspects of it were irreversible. We might compare the situation of Edward the Confessor who ruled the kingdom of the English from 1042 to 1066. ...".

Anyway, must get back to my monolith! Angus McLellan (Talk) 02:28, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Angusmclellan! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 5 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 939 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

1. Charles Rizk - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
2. Elias Saba - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
3. Antoinette Spaak - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
4. Kamel Asaad - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
5. Bastiaan Ragas - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 00:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Damn bots. Translations tend to have as good, or as bad, sources as the originals. But perhaps I can round up a real live expert for the Lebanese guys ;-) Surely Mme Spaak has a source? Angus McLellan (Talk) 02:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank U

So far your great idea is working smoothly. I believe that the following three have been fixed and are ready to be closed: File:Usmcmayaguez.jpg, File:Bougainville-mud.jpg and File:AgustinRC.jpg. Could you check them out? Thanks Tony the Marine (talk) 01:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

PR images

Hi. Be careful with some closing. When an images is disputed for not having a source, providing a source does not automatically resolves the problem. Once a source is provided, when need to verify the fair use rationale (what is impossible to do without a source). That an image appeared in some books it doesn't automatically follows that we can use it under fair use on the web. Some closings seemed to follow this broken rationale. I'm sorry I'm a little busy right now and I'll point out the cases individually later.

In any case, thanks for your participation on the taksforce. --Damiens.rf 22:14, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Imperial Japanese Navy

Hi Angus! One of my FAs, Imperial Japanese Navy, is currently under Featured article review at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Imperial Japanese Navy/archive1. Although I would like to respond to the improvement suggestions at the FAR, I cannot technically edit the article since it has a paragraph about the Mongol invasions of Japan. Could give me your OK to edit the article? Thank you. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 22:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I am fine with this and I will note that on the enforcement page. Best of luck with the review! Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 22:50, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Hello Angus, I'm here in an official clerk capacity. You listed the dispensation at the first case not the second which is still in force until 2 February 2010. You left your comments at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance, but the active sanctions are at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/PHG. -MBK₀₀₄ 12:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Updated. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:20, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Informational query

In re: File:PulpFictionColors.jpg. When the discussion has produced no consensus for deletion, and especially when the arguments favoring deletion consist of four brief sentences, half of which evidence misunderstanding of policy, it is very important that the deleting administrator clearly explain the policy basis for deletion. Would you please do so? Thank you.—DCGeist (talk) 00:16, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

As it happens, your comments weighed significantly in my decision, but perhaps not entirely in the manner in which you had intended. The fact that you cited commentary did a good deal, or as much as anything ever can, to meet the requirements of #8 of the non-free content criteria. I have in mind the allusion to "Willis' physical appearance in character". However, things then went off in another direction. You stated that the "[i]mage is evidently judiciously chosen to focus on Willis's physiognomy and physical bearing in accordance with sourced critical commentary". Not the character portrayed, but Willis himself. The article echoes this, and was quoted by the other editor who argued against deletion: "Tarantino said, 'Bruce has the look of a 50s actor. I can't think of any other star that has that look.'" But this raises a problem. If it is Willis's appearance which was important, and the comments arguing against deletion do suggest that it was, then in avoiding #8 you've run into #1: an image of Willis will serve perfectly well to depict Willis's "physiognomy and physical bearing". And so, after all this, I deleted the image. Angus McLellan (Talk) 01:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Well articulated and much appreciated. Best, Dan.—DCGeist (talk) 06:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for assistance

Hi Angus. Sorry for the intrusion but I am here to request your assistance regarding a proposed audit of my image uploads that Damiens.rf has demanded on my talkpage as seen at User_talk:Dr.K.#Upload_review. I disagree with editor-centered audits which have the potential to lead to witch-hunts and intimidation of editors here . However I proposed at the above discussion that you act as a mediator in this matter and render an opinion regarding the validity of this unpecedented proposed editor-centered audit given also that Damiens.rf and I have been involved in opposite sides in the recent WP:AN discussion. You are free to proceed in any manner you see fit and should you choose to do so, your opinion on my image uploads is also welcome. Thank you for your consideration. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 18:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I missed this message earlier. I will have a think about this and get back to you. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Angus. I would still welcome your input even though I already replied to Damiens.rf here. Take care. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 17:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Image removal / Discussion

In the future why don't you perform due dilligence on images to include entering your issue with a particular article on it's discussion page. With regard to the image "L. Cedeño Bliss Wishes" - as sated in the notations with the image in Wikimedia commons: I took the photo, I'm the subject of the photo, I am the graphic designer who altered the photo, I own the record label E.M.7. That should cover it.

Now please leave the image in place.

Etrangere (talk) 21:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Conflict of interest, autobiography

RE: Neither of these are good. I refer you to Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and, more importantly, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. You are the last person on God's little green earth who should be writing about you, records you made, or companies you own. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

To begin with, I did not make the music on the album. I have the Artist with me RIGHT NOW though and he typed in that he grants permission. Further more, even if I had:

from: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view

Neutrality requires views to be represented without bias. All editors and all sources have biases (in other words, all editors and all sources have a point of view)—what matters is how we combine them to create a neutral article. Unbiased writing is the fair, analytical description of all relevant sides of a debate, including the mutual perspectives and the published evidence. Editorial bias toward one particular point of view should be removed or repaired.

The spirit of this guideline is in deterring wanton and unverifiable self promotion. The point being that the facts of a given topic can be given in a neutral POV even if the author is somehow related to the subject in question. All of the facts in this article are verifiable. There is no original research (see below)

(more from:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view)

Neutral point of view" is one of Wikipedia's three core content policies, along with "Verifiability" and "No original research." Jointly, these policies determine the type and quality of material that is acceptable in Wikipedia articles.''

(more from:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view)

material should not be removed solely on the grounds that it is "POV", although it may be shortened or moved if it gives undue weight to a minor point of view, as explained below.

The article in question again: does not violate this guideline. According to Wikipedia guidelines for inclusion this article is noteworthy enough to merit inclusion. POV is not the defining issue.

It's possible that I'm off base, I don't think so but it is possible, and if so I'll take my que from moderators after discussion.

As for God's little Earth? Are you God? Are you the one who decides and enforces all Wiki policies? I doubt it. So if you have a legitimate and discernible argument which you can present in coherent terms please state it clearly and gain consensus.

If in the end this article is deleted - I'll contact the journalists at NPR and request they post the article. Either way, the article is bound to stay on Wikipedia. It seems more useful to iron out the issues you might have rather than play "God."

Thanks.

Try educating yourself first by actually taking the time to read WP:COI, WP:POV, and WP:NPOV before making egregious claims regarding Wikipedia policy. You are in no position whatsoever to make threats so I suggest you stop. -FASTILY_sock^(TALK)

Have I made a threat?

I am doing my best to educate myself on Wiki policy. In my estimations I have not made any egregious claims. If you assert that I have can you be specific? Can you please point out the specific error of my interpretation of policy?

and again: Have I made a threat? If so can you point it out please?

As for my requesting that someone who is not associated in any way with the subject matter - write the article (NPR)... Isn't that what you and your fellow editor are telling me is necessary?

Very confused.

Thanks again.

Etrangere (talk) 00:28, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

If someone at NPR, or anyone else, would write an article, or expand an article, because you asked them to, then they would have a conflict of interest also. If you'd like the views of an expert on this subject, that wouldn't be me. I'd suggest you ask User:Durova. She has given a great deal of thought to the subject, and has given talks on it. Regards, Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Request

Angus, I'm sorry for bothering you with the requests in the "Puerto Rican images with problems". Unfortunately it seems as if you and I, besides the nominator, are the only ones trying to do something. I don't understand why but the nominator is not closing those which have been fixed, that's O.K. I have fixed the sources, licenses and when needed, added the rationale which appears in Wikipedias criteria of fair use. Please check these out and if possible close: File:EstevesWP.jpg; File:RamonaValdez.jpg; File:Antonio Maldonado.jpg; File:German Rieckehoff Sampayo .jpg; File:JJvaldez.jpg; File:De Arellano with awards cropped.jpg; File:DeVillard.jpg; File:O'Niell2.jpg; File:Jesus Colon.jpg. Thank you in advance. Tony the Marine (talk) 01:18, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Random Playmates for Deletion

Hello, I saw that you proposed a number of playboy playmate articles for deletion. When I've run across these discussions before, WP:PORNBIO is usually cited to me for inherent notability, i.e., "A person is generally notable if they meet any of the following standards", "is a Playboy Playmate". While BLP concerns shouldn't be disregarded, its not a ground for immediate deletion unless there is contentious or attack information in the articles. I would propose that you remove the proposed deletions from these articles, as I did for the 1st one I saw, Charlotte Kemp --Milowent (talk) 19:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

MTX Jackhammer picture

That image has been here for over a year; it has a copyright thing on it already. It says fair use under US law. Daniel Christensen (talk) 19:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Playboy Playmates

Could you please stop listing Playboy Playmates for prods. They are notable per WP:PORNBIO. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 20:01, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

After going further down my watchlist, I see that you deleted several Playmate's articles. Could you please replace them? Dismas|^(talk) 20:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Moved to Commons/Files for deletion

Thank you for making my life easier with that tag :) Bwmoll3 (talk) 12:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

IFD closed maybe a bit prematurely?

Hello, would you mind reconsidering your early closure of Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 January 20#File:Woodward pic of woodward.png? As I said on the parallel case of Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 January 21#File:Woodward pic biloxi oyster warf.jpg, there isn't normally a life-of-author-plus-70 rule in the US, and in cases of paintings from this time period there are rather complicated issues about determining when it was created, and when and how it was first published. I'm afraid we might need a bit more discussion and more background data to determine these cases. Perhaps, to avoid bureaucracy with DRV and all that, you could just revert the early closure so we can talk it over at leisure while the IFD runs its normal time? Thanks, -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Non-Free image in the Nokia N900 article

Regarding : File:Nokia N900 05 lowres.jpg, it is my understanding that your are right by saying that my fair use rational cannot any longer apply as the Nokia N900 has been released, and as such, a high quality free image is easy to come by. You are welcome to delete it. Thanks. --Mandor (talk) 05:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The Moray Question

Thank you again. This is an excellent paper and Alex Woolf is a pleasure to read. Obviously now it is possible that the pedigree is ultimately spurious. But at the same time Scotland was different from Ireland and I am having trouble with who else they could have been. Obviously it is popular to see Picts in the Void. But I recall that in Ireland we were able to correct the ancestry of the Dál nAraidi and Dál gCais only with an excellent knowledge of early medieval Irish populations. For Scotland we lack any record of what must have been countless minor and discard septs of both the Dál Riata and Picts, with contributions from the Britons, Angles, and Norse. Clann Ruadrí could have been anybody or everybody.

The Cenél Loairn themselves are wonderfully mysterious. It would appear that ten or more later clans, like the Mackenzies and Macleans, were claiming descent from them quite early. I know of no surviving legend concerning this but there must once have been tales in existence. DinDraithou (talk) 05:43, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Rheged

• I just added a couple WPs to Talk:Rheged. The more the merrier. But my geography is a bit spotty, and I don't want to offend anyone. Would you mind quietly rmv'ing any that are inappropriate? Tks. • Ling.Nut 06:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Dirge Within removal

Hi, I was curious as to why you removed the Dirge Within page, they are a signed to a record label (E1 Entertainment) which makes them eligible for their own Wikipedia page. x IDidThePope x 00:19, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't show up as something I deleted if you can see that. In fact, I'm not seeing that there ever was a Dirge Within article. If you click on a red link and it has previously existed you should see a message to say that, like at The Little Street of Vermeer and its Location. Are you sure about this? Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

It was saying it was you yesterday x IDidThePope x 11:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC) "12:07, 13 January 2010 Angusmclellan (talk | contribs) deleted "Dirge within" ‎ (A7: No indication that the article may meet guidelines for inclusion)" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xididthepopex (talk • contribs)

Makes sense now. Yes, it does seem that I deleted Dirge within (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). I've undeleted it, but it is very likely to be deleted again if it remains as it is. If you look at WP:BAND, you'll want to show that it meets one, or preferably more than one, of those criteria. References to reports in music and lifestyle mags, newspapers, major entertainment websites, and so on, are always the best way to go about this. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I will clean it all up when i get home later x IDidThePope x 12:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xididthepopex (talk • contribs)

Anglo-Saxon Kings

I have been tidying up some of the introductions to the articles on Anglo-Saxon Kings. I noticed that they often did not make clear at the start who they are, and I thought that it would be clearest for the user to start by saying that they are Kings of Wessex and their dates. I think that I may have improved the article on Æthelberht so that it no longer needs a note that additional citations are needed.

Up to Æthelred it seems uncontroversial to describe them as kings of Wessex, but not from Alfred on, and Mike Christie suggested that I should ask for your advice. Alfred and Edward the Elder are both described in the infobox as King of the West Saxons, Alfred at the start of his article as King of Wessex and Edward as 'an English King'. Kings thereafter are described as King of England or King of the English and mostly by different titles in the text and the infobox. Some editors think that Alfred and Edward should be described as King of the West Saxons as this was their contemporary title. My own view is that using such a little known title is confusing for users, and that it would be best to describe all kings up to Edward the Elder as kings of Wessex and all subsequent kings as kings of England, but I am doubtful whether it is reasonable to make such wholesale changes off my own bat. What do you think? Dudley Miles (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Peso.jpg

Is there a reason this was being moved to commons? if it's not PD-Cuba it shouldn't be on commons either. Anyways can you delete it for good now? Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:56, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Long story, which I think you'll find further up this page, based on a mis-reading of Cuban copyright terms. Deleted now. Thanks for the reminder, Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

File:Woodward pic biloxi oyster warf.jpg

Angus, what the heck am I to do with this one? :-) I'm confused with the conversation that you and Fut. Perf. were having. I can't work out now whether you think it should be kept, or whether it should be deleted. Can you clarify your thoughts at the AFD? I'd like to get this one closed to clear the backlog. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 11:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I think we agreed that that one should be kept as we have a publication date and no renewal to be found, so the close was fine. I am rather less confident about the paintings of old New Orleans. I'll follow up on those myself. Thanks, Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers... that's what I thought. If you do find that there is an issue, let me know. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 12:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Close final FFD

Hi Angus, I've managed to clear the backlog at FFD. However, as I commented on one FFD nomination, could you close? The FFD is Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 January 18#File:Thomas Youngblood at Monsters of Rock 2007 in Zaragoza, Spain.jpg. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 12:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I was too slow. Someone beat me to it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Help

I realize the spectacular possibility that the Picts constituted a small aristocracy (of peculiar custom?) and were distinct from the populations over whom they ruled. I would like to research this, and find or fashion somewhere to discuss it in Wikipedia. What is our evidence? DinDraithou (talk) 07:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Thegn vs thane

Hi Angus. Someone has proposed to move thegn to thane. Your input is much appreciated. Cavila (talk) 08:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of Category Operalia

There was no consensus and most people argued that it should be renamed or kept. Please visit again the discussion.--Karljoos (talk) 21:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

"Consensus" and "most" are not always related. Wikipedia:Consensus states that "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale" and the Wikipedia:Overcategorization guideline (OCAT), whatever its flaws may be, is at some level that "wider scale" which needs to be kept in mind when weighing arguments and closing CfDs. OCAT is reasonably clear on award categories, and has some things to say about eponymous categories which can be more generally applicable. Given this context, the arguments to have kept the category would, I feel, have had to supply clear and compelling reasons why the guidance in OCAT was not relevant in this case. In my judgement they did not do this.

If you do not find this explanation satisfactory, you may wish to follow the process outlined at Wikipedia:Deletion review. Best regards, Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletion review for Category:Operalia

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Category:Operalia. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Karljoos (talk) 22:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Trailers

Yes, I was involved in such a discussion w-a-a-y back, but I was on the receiving end of some expertise by a Wikipedian well-versed in the area. I don't know if there's ever been a WMF advisory or extensive discussion. I've uploaded a few still images from trailers in the past few years, but I believe I've brought them all to Wikipedia, rather than to Commons. That said, given my understanding of the issues, this should be a very fruitful resource field for expanding Commons. DCGeist (talk) 01:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Why did you delete Category:19th-century national presidents in Africa?

There was no WP:CON-- as I already pointed out to Johan-- and I quote.

Keep/Expand : Alansohn, Carlaude, JohanSteyn123

Delete/Merge : BrownHairedGirl, Good Olfactory , Vegaswikian

Please revert this or comment on your reasoning. Thank you. ^{Carlaude:Talk} 19:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I am curious as to whether you have actually read WP:CONSENSUS? You appear to be counting votes and treating every comment as being of equal validity. Is that the case? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:23, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes I have read it, and agree there are some occations where some votes are not truly valid, but I am not crazy I about your apparent hope that I can read your mind or I just think like you do. This is not even a comment on your reasoning, and I do not think that that was too much to ask of you. Why don't you just say what you mean?

Considering you had the option of just "re-listing the discussion to gain consensus"-- I would say you need an actual reasons to just dismiss views that you disagree with. ^{Carlaude:Talk} 07:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

No clairvoyance is required. I'm happy to answer the question, but we do need to be speaking the same language. If I say consensus means what WP:CONSENSUS says it does, and you say it means counting all of the "votes", then we aren't likely to be communicating properly.

I discounted Alansohn's comment for reasons which, I think, should be obvious to anyone who reads CfD. When his comments are right, it's on the stopped clock principle. If he's ever read the Categorisation or Overcategorisation pages, he must have decided that they are wrong and he is right. His comments are largely a waste of his time, and the time of whoever reads them.

That this was part of a larger system is a reasonable argument, on the face of it. It does beg the question of whether the larger system is valid, something that wasn't entirely accepted. There was also the point raised that this was 'an "overall scheme" that is almost completely self-manufactured by one editor', something that wasn't addressed. So, yes, there's an argument here, but it is not accepted by all who saw it.

The argument that this was unhelpful to readers and not especially meaningful was advanced. This wasn't refuted so far as I can see. Although there were questions raised, they were addressed more fully than those regarding the "larger scheme". The criticisms of this view didn't convince the last person to comment.

JohanSteyn123's comment would have been germane had the only question, or even the main one, concerned the size of the categories. Although this formed part of the nomination, it did not, as it happened, form the basis of the debate. I entirely agree that the category was large enough to stand on its own and this question didn't have anything to do with the close.

If I reduce the argument to the main points and who made them, we have: Alansohn missing the point entirely, as usual; JohanSteyn123 arguing about something that turned out not to be disputed after all; you arguing that the larger scheme should be respected; and three people who disagreed with you. There are not, as you suggested, three arguing for and three against. There are three against, one for, and two who aren't adding anything to the discussion, one because that's normal, and the other because, while the comments were valid, they were not in fact addressing the main question. When comments are made is also of some relevance: the last two comments were in favour of deletion, and the final one was from someone who had the chance to read all of the arguments. Angus McLellan (Talk) 15:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Fastily

I notice you've blocked FastilySock. Are you also going to start an RFC on User:Fastily proper? If you are, I'll back it. I've just made three comments that read like this on Images for Deletion:

File:Multiple Antenna.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Daniel Christensen (notify | contribs | uploads).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Use not stated. FASTILY_sock^(TALK) 04:22, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Keep and trout nominator. In this edit, Fastily removed this image from the article Television antenna, where it was serving to give a good illustration of a kind of television antenna. So the image was not orphaned, clearly encyclopedic, and its use was obvious. This is conduct unbecoming of an administrator. :-(

I've also read a bit, and see he's done the same thing on multiple other articles, apparently mostly tracking one user's image uploads and removing them from wherever they may happen to be, and nominating them for deletion under artificial pretexts. I can't imagine more discouraging action towards someone just trying to help illustrate the Wikipedia. If he didn't have the mop, I'd be asking Fastily be banned as a vandal. Since he does, I imagine he's done something good for the Wikipedia before, but this is just horrible. --GRuban (talk) 19:48, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know your concerns. You're right. It is horrible. The kind of thinking that would lead someone to remove a free image from an article without replacing it with a "better" one and then nominate it for deletion as orphaned, unencyclopedic and use not stated (← that bit should be in 72-point blinking text) makes my head hurt when I try, and fail, to understand it. I really do expect a clear assurance that this will never happen again. It's not the umpteen messages, or even the less than frank nominations, although those are really unacceptable from an administrator. It's the whole idea of nominating free content which has a fairly obvious use or which could usefully be moved to Commons. Why would anyone do that? How does it help the project? It makes no sense at all to me. And unfortunately it isn't a first. Look at User:Ericci8996 last month, although that didn't blow up quite the same thankfully.

As for an RfC, I am still undecided. I think I will wait and see what is said before I make my mind up. Best regards, Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of some of this. I thought Damiens.rf was bad, but this is unreal. The attempt to delete free images with an untrue rationale just has me flummoxed. If you decide to file an RfC I'll happily certify. And did you notice that he unblocked his own sock? I'm guessing it was to clear an autoblock, but... sheesh. AniMate 01:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

PHG

Please see Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance#Neutrality issues. --Elonka 21:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Osraige

Now the pressure is on. I have added the Osraige to Template:Royal houses of Europe for being notable troublemakers. DinDraithou (talk) 20:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Cearbhall

Is there much than can be done with Cearbhall of Osraighe? Its quite a good article, as are a few other on his contempories, but are there any more sources left to use?

Sorry for not getting around to the Ua Conchobar articles. I've got waylaid with Gaelic-Irish medieval bios. I am proud to state that I have helped bring up the Medieval Gaels category to 941. I've also gone out of my way to write up and catagorise the same for Irish counties. Thus far the top three are Dublin (1244); Galway (1057); Cork (870). It just looked weird that we had so few from way back, and especially with purely Gaelic names.

I've also added substancially to the category Irish poets useing the above standards. Otherwise how are people looking up their county ever gonna hear about them?

All else is good. Hope to reach 1100 for Galway soon, and to eventually top Dublin. We'll need more from the midlands to balance us out. Fergananim (talk) 01:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Angus

What's the specific issue please? Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 20:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Angus. I have no clue why Elonka is reacting like this. The previous matter we had was over the Mongols and Jerusalem and Elonka finally recognized that the Mongols may have been in Jerusalem, while User:Srnec now confirms that "reliable sources say unequivocally that the Mongols were in Jerusalem" [2], which is quite a progress knowing how I was criticized for putting this fact forward. Now she is apparently threatening me for no specific reason other than contributing to that article. I'd be delighted if you could help.. Best regards Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 20:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not that sophisticated :-) old generation I guess, but e-mail works just fine. Best regards Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Just never done it... any advice on how to work it out? Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 21:04, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, nothing in Gmail. Never mind... it's time to go to bed now. I wish Elonka would learn to relax a bit. Cheers Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 21:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested [3] I think this is a total misrepresentation of facts. I think this is harassment. Cheers Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 06:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I haven't had a chance to look at all of this, but there is some good advice, although sometimes hard to follow, which I have heard: Cunctando regitur mundus. Please send me an email and we can discuss this privately. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:32, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

E-mail sent Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 20:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Got it. Many thanks. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:49, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Since PHG is continuing to disrupt the GA nom (and has escalated to making personal attacks), I have filed an AE request to extend the topic ban, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Request concerning Per Honor et Gloria. As you are his mentor of record, I am letting you know in case you would like to comment. --Elonka 22:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Since the AE thread was not the proper venue, a request for the extension of the topic ban has been filed here. --Elonka 07:37, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your RfA Support

Angusmclellan - Thanks for your participation and support in my recent successful RfA. Your confidence and trust in me is much appreciated. As a new admin I will try hard to keep from wading in too deep over the tops of my waders, nor shall I let the Buffalo intimidate me.--Mike Cline (talk) 09:04, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Alod

I came across the word 'alod' as a type of medieval tenure. It is not in Wiktionary, and in Wikipedia it redirects (for a reason I do not understand) to a comedy website called 'Something Awful'. I found in a Domesday glossary http://www.britainexpress.com/History/domesday-terms.htm that it means freehold land. I think it would be worth creating a (stub) article for it, but I am not sure how to create one when the word already redirects, and whether it belongs in Wikipedia or Wiktionary. Can you advise? Dudley Miles (talk) 18:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I think alod may have been a more common early medieval spelling. Googling "alod" with "Domesday" gives 2000 hits compared with 1000 for "allod", and googling the spellings with "Anglo Saxon" gives a majority of 1000 to 850 for alod. I have added a reference to the Domesday spelling to the article on allodial title and changed the alod redirection page to a disambiguation one.Dudley Miles (talk) 13:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to re-name de Clare Article

It seems crazy to me - the whole idea. But whatever your opinion, would you please weigh in on this discussion? Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 February 15 The category is entitled Category: House of Clare. Thanks Mugginsx (talk) 21:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Angus

Wow! that's a great offer. Thank you so much! At present I am recovering from rotator cuff surgery ===soooo painful, consequently, I cannot do too much on Wiki except for a few minutes at a time, but I will take you up on your very generous offer! As I said on my talk page, I follow your work and I find it to be very scholarly. That's not flattery, just the truth! That's why I wanted you to put your opinion to that request. Now, I am going to retire, take my pain pill and hopefully enjoy a little time without pain! Thanks! Mugginsx (talk) 22:47, 15 February 2010 (UTC)