Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 June 2

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SharabSalam (talk | contribs) at 13:29, 2 June 2020 (→‎Category:Death of George Floyd). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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June 2

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Meadowbrook Polo Club

Nominator's rationale: Eponymous single-page category. Wire723 (talk) 12:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Death of George Floyd

Nominator's rationale: While I could imagine putting this in Speedy renaming after the article was moved from Death of George Floyd to Killing of George Floyd, I expect some editors will want to debate it. That said, if an admin decides it should be renamed in two days per C2D, that is certainly fine with me.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 12:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Italian drama road moves

Nominator's rationale: Typo. Errix (talk) 10:07, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Scotty Emerick songs

Nominator's rationale: Single member of the category is a redirect. Provides no help to readers. Richhoncho (talk) 09:59, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Shelly Fairchild songs

Nominator's rationale: Single member of category which is also a redirect. No help or assistance to readers. Richhoncho (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Holocaust plays

Nominator's rationale: The current title is somewhat ambiguous and the 'about X' name is common anyway if you look at the Category:Plays by topic. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:00, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Sexual orientation and society

Nominator's rationale: "Sexual orientation" mostly applies to the L, G, and B and is a subset of LGBT. "LGBT and society" makes more sense as a parent category, not a child of this one. But this one contains some LGBT subcategories and articles that go beyond the scope of just sexual orientation. Given that many but not all articles span both, it's probably most natural just to merge up into "LGBT and society". -- Beland (talk) 03:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If kept, reverse the hierarchy (make LGBT the parent category of sexual orientation) and move some content from sexual orientation to LGBT. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:30, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In theory, I get the idea that this would also include straight/asexual content. In practice, the nominator is correct that this is LGBTQ content. RevelationDirect (talk) 10:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Films by demographic audience

Option A
Option B
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate categories for the same purpose, i.e. films for children/teens/adults. In case option B is preferred, other categories may be renamed as well: Animation by demographic, Animated television series by demographic, Television series by demographic, Anime and manga by demographic, Japanese manga magazines by demographic, Categories by demographics. Place Clichy (talk) 08:24, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/question, "adult movies" is meant as a genre for sure. Can we perhaps merge all of them to "by genre" categories? Marcocapelle (talk) 15:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Marcocapelle: Good point. Until recently, Category:Adult films was a soft redirect to Films about sexuality. However in this acception adult is a mere euphemism for erotic or pornographic films, which are otherwise correctly categorized by genre as such. There are other art forms such as animation or comics where the word adult is clearly used to describe works that are not oriented towards a young audience but that cover a wide variety of topics and genres that are not sexual in nature, I would therefore not rule out the room for a demographic/audience category scheme (that's a lot of negatives). The main concern behind this nomination is the duplicate. Place Clichy (talk) 17:10, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    So currently, adult animation is the only content that certainly does not belong in a "by genre" category. That sounds like merging (while purging adult animation) is also an option to consider. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comics are also a form of art where the adult target would be defining regardless of genre, at least for Franco-Belgian comics which I know better. Category:Adult comics is currently poorly parented imho, but Category:Anime and manga by demographic is definitely one such category by readership and not by genre. I guess that in cinema or television, non-sexual adult films are probably the mainstream type of films, so this characteristic would not be defining. Place Clichy (talk) 18:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I find Category:Novels by age-group, which is similar (but excludes say men's/women's interest groups). I have a feeling there was a 4th way of describing this method of subcatting in some other tree. It should be Category:Categories by demographic. Category:Magazines by interest is another (wider). Oculi (talk) 18:34, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Oculi: that's a very good catch, many thanks! While the focus of these variously named categories seems to be on age rather than gender or other demographic (e.g. education, wealth or ethnicity), I guess that the structure seen in Category:Mass media by interest is the closest thing to a well-organized category by demographic target audience. I also think I like by age-group better than by demographic or by audience. AS the term mass media may not be applicable for all, I suggest creating a new Category:Entertainment by age-group or Category:Entertainment by interest and moving there the various categories discusssed above, renamed such as: Category:Films by age-group, Category:Animation by age-group, Category:Television series by age-group, Category:Anime and manga by age-group etc. I wonder if the hyphen is appropriate though. However, this structure should only host material for which this age-group target is defining, and certainly not to place every film or series or novel in an age or gender category. Place Clichy (talk) 18:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment by age group is really a ratings (in countries where there are such) categories, do we want to do that as different content triggers different ratings (violence doesn't trigger much ratings fuss in the US but nudity does; in Scandinavia it seems the other way around). I don't think that certain ratings (other than adult, where age restrictions preclude minors from attending) denote the demographic of the audience and many films work on several levels (Shrek comes to mind). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:55, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 03:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Oxudercinae

Nominator's rationale: Categories both contain Mudskippers. Lymantria (talk) 12:16, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Mudskipper and Oxudercinae are not synonymous, all of the mudskippers are members of the subfamily but not all of the members of the subfamily are called mudskippers, some are called gobies and many don't have common names.Quetzal1964 (talk) 19:24, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 03:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Transformers: Chojin Masterforce character redirects to lists

Nominator's rationale: Transformers: Chojin Masterforce redirects to Transformers: Super-God Masterforce, so the category should be renamed accordingly. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 05:29, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 04:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:57, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Plovers

Nominator's rationale: This category puts a bird that is usually not found near bodies of water under Category:Shorebirds.  The articles are all in more appropriate categories (e.g. Category:Charadriinae). DexDor (talk) 12:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:Charadriinae, but leave a redirect, as this is a plausible search term. (alternatively reverse merge, as the taxonomic family name is obscure to non-specialists). Peterkingiron (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The 4 articles are already in scientifically-named categories so no merge is necessary. Categories using scientific names are generally better than those using common names as they are more clearly defined and form a complete non-overlapping set. A non-specialist can go to the Plover article and from there go to the (scientifically-named) category (or just use normal hyperlinks to other articles). DexDor (talk) 19:33, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
PS re reverse merge - it should be noted that the interwiki links are generally on the scientifically-named categories (e.g. Category:Plovers has 1, Category:Charadrius has over 20). DexDor (talk) 05:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Are dotterels and kildeer plovers or not (every other species in the genus with these two has plover in the name)? A shared name element is not a defining characteristic. Plantdrew (talk) 01:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Houses in Lynnfield, Massachusetts

Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to category:Houses in Essex County, Massachusetts. Small category (2 articles) for a small town. User:Namiba 14:22, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominating:

  • Dual merge per nom. @Namiba: please use the standard nomination format "Propose merging X to Y and Z" to make the merge targets crystal clear to everyone. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Language of countries

Nominator's rationale: merge/rename/delete, the categories initially stroke me as oddly-named because the "of country" format almost suggests that languages are owned by countries. In fact for all of them more natural merge or rename targets are possible, as indicated. These container categories may have been created in order to make it more explicit that expatriate content is also allowed, but the articles are in a language subfolder which allows expatriate content anyway. So if that was behind it, it was a nice thought but not effective. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If merged, the primary target for the first one should not be as nominated, but matching the current name without the country, I.e. Category:Mass media by language of India to Category:Mass media by language – as it is currently a diffusing sub-cat of the latter. Manual merging and further work would also be needed re other parents.
As for the nominated target Category:Mass media in India by language, it is currently used for "mass media in India by medium and language". If we want a category for "mass media in India by language and medium", whether merged into the former or kept separate, some of the language categories would require splitting into India-specific sub-cats, N.B. Tamil (also covers Sri Lanka, Malaysia and sundry others) and Urdu (Pakistan as well as India). This has been partly done e.g. for newspapers – see the sub-cats of the newspaper category nominated above. – Fayenatic London 18:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not 'by language and medium' - Category:Mass media in India by language will necessarily contain the subcat Category:Newspapers published in India by language. Oculi (talk)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Canada's Sports Hall of Fame inductees

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The Canada's Sports Hall of Fame recognizes Canadian athletes for their performance much earlier in their lives. This category groups athletes from different sports and different eras in one large category while the articles are already well grouped under their respective sports which better aid navigation: Gordie Howe is in 16 hockey categories, Barbara Wagner is in 13 skating & Olympic cats, and Ferguson Jenkins is in 29 baseball cats. This award tends to get mentioned in a list with other awards, although there are exceptions where it's in the lede or omitted entirely, so it doesn't seem generally defining. The contents of the category are already listified at List of members of Canada's Sports Hall of Fame. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Background We previously deleted similar national All Sports halls of fame for Germany here, Scotland here, and New Zealand here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jack Kirby Hall of Fame inductees

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The Jack Kirby Hall of Fame was an award from 1989 to 2001 named after Jack Kirby that recognized long careers as comic book artists. Like most halls of fame, this award reflects the fame of people that are already prominent in their profession and isn't defining. That's reflected in the articles where this award is generally listed in passing with other hall of fame inductions (Over the course of a weekend, one enthusiastic editor moved that awards paragraph to the intro for about half of these articles though.) The contents of the category are already listified here for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -RD
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