Talk:2020 United States census/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about 2020 United States census. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

New Sections added

I just added new sections comparable to the 2010 Census article to include design changes, questions that will be asked, and operational timeline milestones. I also added information about jobs, marketing plans and additional census uses. Shel5136 (talk) 20:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

External links modified

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Citizenship section

The section on the citizenship question seems to be about as long as the entire rest of the article -- should it be split off into a separate article?47.139.43.145 (talk) 05:30, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Did it start?

Or is it postponed due to the pandemia? --178.203.144.249 (talk) 18:18, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it has started; though yesterday (April 1) was the official launch (Census Day), the Census has been available to fill out online for weeks now. Funcrunch (talk) 19:51, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

I just added a bit on the impact from the Coronavirus pandemic. Funcrunch (talk) 19:51, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Data available

Hi, I miss the info of when exactly the census data will be available. How long does it need to put them online? At least until 2021? Regards, Dionysos1988 (talk) 17:20, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Concur. The article is unclear on when the new 2020 census demographic data results are expected to be available. Any sources on that? Previous history of when such data usually or have typically become available? N2e (talk) 14:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

"Citizenship question" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Citizenship question. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 7#Citizenship question until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 23:15, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 8 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by proposer. Just following what appeared to be evidence of a different WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAME, but it's obvious that we wish to have an exception here, which is perfectly fine and reasonable. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 09:15, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

2020 United States Census → United States Census 2020 – Per the website and logo, the official name for the census is "Census 2020", stylised with a prefixed "United States" (see: CNN coverage, Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction, Virginia Association of Counties, Planetizen Courses which runs PD for urban planning, New Jersey Department of State). As part of natural disambiguation, "Census 2020" is the most common name, but there is a need for a disambiguating title, hence United States Census 2020. Per WP:COMMONNAME, "United States Census 2020" is used in 129,000 indexed pages (Google Search), while "2020 United States Census" is used in just 42,200 indexed pages (Google Search). If you want to look at trends, they're about equally as popular search terms: Google Trends. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 07:16, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Oppose. Every other U.S. Census article on Wikipedia follows the naming convention of having the year first. Why should this one be different? Or do you propose renaming all of those articles as well? Funcrunch (talk) 16:58, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

@Funcrunch: US census articles already break consistency with most other census pages by having a capitalised "Census" (see 2021 Australian census, 2020 United Kingdom census, 2018 New Zealand census) - capitals are significant enough to distinguish per WP:DIFFCAPS. A redirect, like always, will cover this previous name. Also, saying that this move should be rejected because other articles use a different name likely warrants a read of WP:OTHERCONTENT - if other censuses are better known by a different name, they should be moved per policy. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 08:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Ironically, see below RM. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 08:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Oppose, not consistent with other articles. Free1Soul (talk) 17:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Oppose Consistency is important. Google search results are NOT a reliable reference of what the common name is. Reywas92^Talk 19:13, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

@Reywas92: Google Search has been used as the de facto measure of commonality of terms for years (see WP:UCRN's bottom paragraph). Do you have any other systematic method of searching how many sources use certain terms? ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 08:11, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

"2010 united states census" has more than twice the hits of "united states census 2010" because that's how it's said naturally. We are not going to have inconsistent article titles on the same topic because of the "proof" of one search. Note how https://www.2020census.gov/ uses "2020 Census" repeatedly because that's the common name, and adding "United States" matches the official name perhaps but does not justify a change. Reywas92^Talk 08:38, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

@Reywas92: Oh, okay, so Google Search is a reliable reference then? If so, I don't see why the search results for a census that happened ten years ago should override the search results for the actual subject of the article. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 08:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

No, it's NOT a reliable reference because you only have ONE data point. The 2010 article is not so named because of one data point either, but the common sense of simple syntactical usage, including that used by the Bureau in text, and consistency overriding a particular branding. Reywas92^Talk 21:11, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Strong oppose, we've already converted all election articles to begin with the year (i.e. Utah gubernatorial election, 2020 versus 2020 Utah gubernatorial election). Seems like leading with the year is the established naming convention.--Woko Sapien (talk) 21:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 November 2020

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. BD2412 T 16:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

– "Census" is a common noun and should be lowercase, as consistent with other countries. Reywas92^Talk 22:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Support, this seems like a fair change.--Woko Sapien (talk) 21:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Note to @Reywas92: I have closed the 2010 census RM opened by you and converted this one into a multi-move request. Please feel free to revert me if you want to keep them separate. BegbertBiggs (talk) 23:34, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

No, I meant to have just one discussion, did I do it wrong? Reywas92^Talk 23:38, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

You began a separate second discussion. Template:Requested move#Multiple related move requests has documentation on how to start a request for multiple pages at once, in case you need it in the future. BegbertBiggs (talk) 23:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Support - this was always my preferred title, but I found that there was more evidence for United States 2020 Census. With the above RM closed, I'm more than happy to resolve these inconsistencies and wouldn't actually mind at creating some formal naming conventions and manual of style guidelines for censuses :) ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 09:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Comment - I am neutral on whether or not census should be lowercase, but whatever consensus is reached, for consistency, I think we should apply that to all the articles about the 24 U.S. Censuses going back to 1790 United States Census, not just 2010 and 2020. ECTran71 (talk) 01:42, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree; it should be consistent throughout Wikipedia. --Woko Sapien (talk) 20:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment Reywas92 I agree with ECTran71 and others that the same capitalization should apply to all census. Strongly recommend that you list them all above and doing an involved relist to get consensus for all the moves. (t · c) buidhe 21:34, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes, obviously, as I stated above. I have revised the header to tag all pages. Reywas92^Talk 22:20, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Reywas92, you might also want to add United States Census to the proposed list as well. --Woko Sapien (talk) 16:17, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Not the way this works, as the discussion is well along and can't Christmas tree items onto it. All of these are proper names, by the way, per sources on each page. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Support - as these aren't proper or official names, just common names. However, we shouldn't move this for no other reason than that's how other articles do it. Bneu2013 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Oppose per proper name. See United States Census, United States Census Bureau and other links, as well as search engine results and the page sources of the nominated articles (have checked a few of the pages and they seem consistent). When used by itself, 'census' is lower-cased, but as part of the full name it seems to be upper-cased. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Support per nom. Mgasparin (talk) 09:07, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The "Reapportionment" Section Seems to be Incomplete

Utah has gained the most population (as percentage), but isn't mentioned in the states likely to gain seats.

Because it isn't. Read the sources...... Reywas92^Talk 18:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Outdated

The article is kind of outdated, some phrases are used in Past tence, althought we are in 2021 now, but there is for instance, such sentence: "As of April 1, 2020, Census Day, the Census Bureau still planned to complete the count by the end of the year". 76.21.97.234 (talk) 11:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

No one cares. Hmm, OK. 76.21.97.234 (talk) 05:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Population table

Not only the values in that table don't agree with the official Census source, the population of the individual states doesn't even add up to the population of the whole USA... --Ngfsmg (talk) 16:04, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I think I realized what happened: the population for the states is the resident plus overseas population,called "apportionment population" in the source, while for DC it's just the resident population. The total US population at the end of the table considers them both but doesn't include DC, being just the sum of the 50 "apportionment populations". I think we should use the same metric for all of them --Ngfsmg (talk) 22:52, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Redistricting data

With the recent release of the redistricting data, the Census Bureau is already cautioning against comparing data to that of the 2010 census. This appears to be primarily a result of the large increase in the number of people identifying as multiracial. That being said, we might should discuss this and reach a consensus before entering every single tidbit of data that was just released. Bneu2013 (talk) 18:21, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

See my post at WikiProject United States. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 03:18, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

What is an ACO?

The acronym ACO was used without being defined. EvanJ35 (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Why is census not capitalized in heading?

In editing a few pages, I've changed the link to this page from United States Census to U.S. census only to receive a complaint from User:Alansohn who apparently prefers the redirect. Setting aside the question of whether a redirect should or should not be fixed, is it correct for census not to be capitalized in the page title and for this to then be listed routinely on pages with it capitalized? The same problem exists with 2010 United States census, 2000 United States census, and 1990 United States census pages, all of which have census not capitalized in the page title and then routinely listed capitalized on the many pages on which it is referenced. It seems the page wording link should be consistent with the page name whatever the answer to the capitalization question. Thanks for any thoughts/input. Keystone18 (talk) 17:26, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

On this page, "Census" only seems to be capitalized when it appears as part of an office title like "Census Bureau"; when referring to the census itself it's lowercase. Media usage seems to corroborate this. In any case we should not repeat the irritating federal Habit of capitalizing Nouns for no Reason. Einsof (talk) 08:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

The template phraseology used on every single city, town, and municipality page (usually in the intro and "Demographics" sections) are: 2020 United States Census, 2010 United States Census, etc. But the pages they link to, of course, are actually 2020 United States census, 2010 United States census, etc. It can't be both ways. Either the pages are wrongly named, or the template postings were a vast error. Keystone18 (talk) 04:47, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Got it. The usage you describe certainly seems widespread on municipality pages, but not universal. Under New York City#Demographics I find more immigration into the city than outmigration since the 2010 United States census. In the lede for Chicago, I find With a population of 2,746,388 in the 2020 census.... It seems like individual pages aren't even consistent. I'd think the right move here should be to follow the secondary sources, which (from looking at the references on this page) seem to favor "census". Einsof (talk) 03:02, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

See this move discussion for the reason behind this inconsistency. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Populations Do Not Match Prioirity Values

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data/apportionment/2020PriorityValues.pdf has the priority values. The formula is a state's population divided by the square root of the product of how many House seats a state has so far and one more than that which it is trying to get. For example, after a state has four seats, its priority value for the fifth seat is the population divided by the square root of 5*4, which is the population divided by the square root of 20. For California, Illinois, New York, and probably other states, the priority values do not match the 2020 populations in the table. For example, California's priority value according to the table would be its population of 39,538,223 divided by the square root of 2, which is 27,957,746 when rounded to the nearest whole number. Its priority value for a second seat is actually 27,984,993 when rounded to the nearest whole number, which is about 1/1,000th higher than its priority value if the table was correct. EvanJ35 (talk) 19:18, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

@EvanJ35: This is because the population in Wikipedia table is the "Resident population" of that state. "Apportionment population" is different, it is the sum of "Resident population" and "Overseas population". "Overseas population" of a state counts the U.S. military and federal civilian employees living outside the 50 states & DC (and their dependents living with them), who are assigned to their home state. Here is a link to resident, overseas and apportionment population of all 50 states+DC+PR: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data/apportionment/apportionment-2020-tableA.pdf Hope this helps. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 20:27, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/dec/2020-apportionment-data.html This page has more excel and pdf datasheets about apportionment. You may like to go through them, if it feels interesting. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 20:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Census used in which election cycles

The page mentions that the census will be used for elections from 2022 to 2030. This seems incorrect. Shouldn't it be 2032? Diane Langlumé 04:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dianelanglume (talk • contribs)

No, why would you think that? The 2030 census will be use for 2032. Reywas92^Talk 13:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Reywas92 I have to agree with you. I believe that the 2030 census is applied to the 2032 election cycle. Stevenmitchell (talk) 03:35, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Why is there no demographic data in the article?

Why is there no demographic information in the article? Shouldn't that be in this article too? At least there is data on the Trump Administration's errors in undercounting and overcounting. That should also be in the general article on the U.S. Stevenmitchell (talk) 03:26, 27 July 2023 (UTC)