Talk:Kalamazoo, Michigan

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I initially put up the Kalamazoo Wiffleball League not to self promote (we have plenty of players) but because I think it's an interesting fact and league. Were certainly are not ultra famous, but had an feature in Gazzette last year, which was republished in the Chicago Tribune and many other papers nationally. This brought on a few morning show interviews etc. Not a big deal. But our league does feature 80+ athletes from the West Michigan area and we have three fields in Oshtemo Township. I'm not going to get butt hurt if that's not enough notoriety to be included on the Kalamazoo page. I guess if this is the channel to keep from having an edit war, then I will start here. [1] [2]

I've looked through your contribution history and you seem to keep adding this information over and over despite several other editors reverting it. One mention in a local newspaper does not make something notable. ZacharyLassiter (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I guess I didn't realize that because ZacharyLassiter didn't know whom we are, no one did. If by several editors you mean two, then yes, two deleted it. One was a unregistered IP address, the other was you. At first with no tag on the edit, other times with a non descriptive edit tag. I only posted the "mention" in the local newspaper to prove some evidence that we exist; no your right, being "mentioned" *cough*3page insert in the entertainment section*cough* in a paper isn't enough notoriety by itself. So I am going through the proper channels and asking more people that just Zachary Lassiter, who for some reason thinks the "World Series of Softball" somehow has less obscurity. Monkeyevil (talk) 22:54, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I deleted it as well, per WP:NOTABILITY. Non-professional sports teams are rarely, if ever notable (though leagues can be in some cases; i.e. Little League Baseball. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:00, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
The Big League softball world series is very notable [3]. I suggest you read up on WP:NOTABILITY and WP:UNDUE WEIGHT. Also the tone of your comments is very nonconstructive. ZacharyLassiter (talk) 23:04, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Who are you addressing here? OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:13, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
user:Monkeyevil ZacharyLassiter (talk) 23:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
You should probably report me to the admins for my "tone" as well then. I'm sorry that I made additions without first reading WP:NOTABILITY if the first person that removed my content would have linked me to that this would be a non issue. In the same context Softball World Series is not notable, and it being in Kalamazoo adds nothing to the article. Monkeyevil (talk) 23:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC
Resolution Can we all agree on the following: (1) Some amateur leagues are notable (particularly, those that compete over a large region, nation-wide, or internationally, and (2) individual amateur teams are rarely, if ever, notable? (For example, notice that winning teams from the 2009_Little_League_World_Series do not have their own articles. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:57, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Justin Zellers[edit]

Can anyone provide evidence that Justin Zellers [4] is in any way notable enough to be mentioned in the article? olderwiser 02:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Who? Mackensen (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
He doesn't have his own article, whoever he is. -- MisterHand 01:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monkeyevil (talkcontribs)

Move content?[edit]

Seems to me like a bunch of the stuff on this page would fit better on the Kalamazoo County page - for example all the stuff about pfizer since the majority of their facilities are in Portage. Shadowblade (talk) 05:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to it in principle. Pfizer's facilities certainly have an effect on the whole county -- but, by the same token, they are of great relevance to the economy of the city proper of Kalamazoo. Any other things you also think should be moved?
If you just do it, odds are unless it gets someone really riled up, no one will complain. I myself will reserve judgment until I see how it looks. Munion 20:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Notable people[edit]

Can anyone provide evidence that Justin Zellers [5] is in any way notable enough to be mentioned in the article? olderwiser 02:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Who? Mackensen (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
He doesn't have his own article, whoever he is. -- MisterHand 01:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Name origin[edit]

I question some of the explanations given for Kalamazoo's name origins.

  1. "negikanamazo" might be "negigo-namezow" (otter's under-tail) but it would never be "stones like otters" because the "stone" aspect of the word is not found in "negikanamazo." The only specific stone that might be contained in the name would be Vermillion, but if so, the translation would have been "otter's vermillion-tail" or "vermillion-like otter" where the translator would have known the word for "vermillion" since it was a common word and would have translated as such. The word for "stone" would be "sen" in Potawatomi.
  2. "kikalamezo" cannot mean "mirage" or "reflecting waters" in Potawatomi because the "reflect," "shine," "appear," or "water" aspects of the word do not exist in the word "kikalamezo."
  3. The explanation for "boiling pot" would not work in the language. Though the word for a pot is "kik" in Potawatomi, the boiling liquid portion would be -gamezo and not -gayamezo / -ganamezo (which in Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi, the "l" have transitioned to either "n" or "y"). Even if reduplication was taken into consideration, the reduplication would have been -gayamezo (from -gaiamezo, not -galamezo). Anyway, -gamezo is a combining form of "boil" and you would need a pre-verb to tell how the kettle boils.

The current Ojibwa/Ottawa name "Giikanaamozoog" in the Potawatomi spelling would be "Gikenamezok" (See Rhodes referenced on Ojibwe language page.) However, this very most likely is a folk etymology that have become common usage today.

Though the Potawatomi have been associated with Kalamazoo, maybe the word Kalamazoo itself came from one of the Miami-Illini languages or from the Sauk language, thus causing the confusion to the meaning of the location. Before the arrival of the Potawatomi pushing others westward and southward, Miami-Illini tribes and the Sac were living in that part of Michigan. CJLippert 06:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Please provide verifiable sources for any such information. What you point out is interesting, and perhaps quite true, but without refering to verifiable source it would be original research. Most of the other accounts of the origin do have some source (if a citation is not there, I'll have to check). Even if thses sources may be ultimately mistaken, unless there is some other more credible verifiable source that directly addresses the issue of the etymology, I think all we can do is report what the sources say. olderwiser 12:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
OK. Well, I will reference myself, via Freelang Ojibwe Dictionary and the Potawatomi Language page. Rhodes, Nichols & Nyholm, Baraga, Cuoq... as well as other Algonquian language recorders and linguists do note of pre-verbs and post-verbs, as well as the vowel syncope found in Eastern Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi. CJLippert 16:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
In addition, Verwyst's "Geographical Names in Wisconsin, Minnesota,and Michigan Having Chippewa Origin" gives the translation of Kalamazoo as "Corruption of kikanamoso (it smokes, or he is troubled with smoke e.g., in his wigwam), pr. kee-kah-nah-mo-zo, or kee-kau-nau-mo-zo" which seems to be the same word Rhodes provides as "Giikanaamozoog" to mean "be Smokey." CJLippert 16:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Another possibility is that the name may have come from "gikenimaazo" (Potawatomi spelling: "kenemazo") to mean "examine/notice/know-about something for oneself." I have not seen any references giving this as a possibility, but linguistically speaking, this word would have been "kihkēlemáso" at one time... which still can suggest that the word's ultimate origin as being from the Miami-Illini tribes or from the Sac tribe. CJLippert 16:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Minor fixes some Kalamazooian could take care of: The song "Kalamazoo to Timbuktu" by Alec Wilder fixed the phrase in the minds of many Americans -- maybe 1940s or 1950s -- and there's a recent children's book entitled "From Kalamazoo to Timbuktu," and it's just easier to say the phrase if you put the cities in that order. Isn't the original and most most popular version of "I'm From Everywhere" sung by Hank Snow, not, not, not Johnny Cash? Msk49 16:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


my father, who lived there in the '70's-'80's told me that marijuana is decriminalized in kalamazoo, meaning that you only get a very mild penalty. is this verifiable? Joeyramoney 01:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

If true I've never heard such a thing, and I know enough stoners from there that I think I would have. Besides, any such law would conflict with federal law... Mackensen (talk) 02:19, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I know that was the case at some point in Ann Arbor, though I'm guessing that it no longer is. could your father have been thinking of that?

Ann Arbor currently has a law stating that the possesion of marijuana in small quantities is less than a misdemeanor offense (a civil infraction carrying penalties of less than $100). --Porqin 19:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This is also the law in Flint, which makes the possession of small quantities of marijuana one of the lowest offenses you can be caught for. --Criticalthinker 10:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

As a resident, I can guarantee that marijuana is not decriminalized in kalamazoo. The question is always that of the lack of jail space, as there has been much ado about having too small of a county jail. There is a lot of traffic of drugs in the area, due to the location on i-94, and its position halfway between Chicago and Detroit. One could add the area's meth problem with all of the drug task forces in the area.

paper mills[edit]

I was surprised to see that the section on Kalamazoo's economy had nothing on paper mills. I lived there as a kid in the 80's, and I remember that many of my friends' parents worked in paper mills, but that many have since closed (maybe one was left about 5 years back when I visited?). Anyone know more about this?

    • Update two minutes later: sorry--just saw that paper and paper products are indeed on there in terms of former industries. My bad for not noticing that sooner. Does this mean that they're all gone?


One of the paper mills: From (verified members section)

Allied Paper Plant Built: 1890 Closed: 1998

The Allied Paper factory currently consists of three mill buildings, Mill C, Mill D, and Mill E, and a power plant (The Power House). There are also several electrical switchgear cabinets on the property, a Consumers' Energy substation (which has now mostly been removed by Consumers'), and the remains of an overhead viaduct that once carried steam, process water, and perhaps electricity between the above mentioned buildings on the north side of Alcott street and the former Mill A and Mill B buildings south of Alcott. (Mills A and B were torn down some years ago.),-85.6087965497971+(Allied+Paper+Plant+%5Bbad+guess%5D)&hl=en

Moped army[edit]

There seems be an ongoing revert war over inclusion of a paragraph regarding a Moped Army group (for example, [6]). A number of anon IPs often removed the paragrraph without comment. But today, one started saying it was to remove inaccuracy. OK, so I looked at the article Moped Army. It says the group was formed in Sturgis, not Kalamazoo. Now personally, I couldn't care less since the entire paragraph is trivial fluff. But I might note that the Moped Army website contains a link to an article in the Kalamazoo Gazette [7], in which it says that the groups was organized by three friends from Sturgis while they were students at WMU. Exactly what you want to make out of this is already exceeds my interest in the topic, but I do wish the reverting woould stop. olderwiser 19:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

That's sufficient citation for me to dismiss these anons as simple vandals.--chris.lawson 20:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, the anon has a point. They're a recognizable local phenomenon, but Sturgis isn't Kalamazoo. I'm prepared to let the removal stand, unless we can think of some way to word the paragraph differently. Mackensen (talk) 11:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
We could expand the statement to explain that it was formed in Kalamazoo by people from Sturgis, as per the article mentioned above.Munion 22:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't much care whether it's mentioned or not, but what's driving me crazy is the fact that this is cited on the Moped Army's own Web site and yet some anon, for lack of better things to do, thinks blanking it is a good idea. The manner of the edit is what turns people against it, even in the case where an anon may be correct (and it seems abundantly clear in this case that the anon is wrong).--chris.lawson 00:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Is a bunch of kids on scooters REALLY culturally significant?User:Anon
I don't really care about the Moped Army, but it does have 371 members and started a nationwide organization. It originated in Kalamazoo and does deserve some mention. Strunke 13:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

They have their own entry on Wikipedia with even more information, a link on the Kalamazoo entry might be appropriate, but not an entire sentence. 13:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It is basically one sentence, not an entire paragraph. Does Pfizer pay you to edit Wikipedia all day? Get back to work.Strunke 13:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't work for Pfizer, but I do enjoy their bandwidth. That being said, F U in the A. "User:StrunkeOwner" - 13:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Mhmm. I'm sorry, you are nice and all, but I'm not the one who would enjoy that. I changed it to a link and three word description as a compromise. Strunke 14:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

External Links[edit]

Recently I posted an external link to This is a new local search website that I believe is by far one of the best local search sites available for Kalamazoo. The link was removed and I was sent a warning from Chris Lawson asking me to not post inappropriate links on the page. Just wanted to clarify some things to Chris - I am in no way affiliated with the site and I have no stake in it whatsoever. It is a free site available to anyone and it offers "reviews" of local businesses which meets one of the "what should be linked to" criteria held by Wikipedia. Additionally, the site does not require registration for anyone to use. After looking at the link I found it to be riddled with Google and Amazon ads, offers to purchase coupon books, and the ability to purchase advertising space, all of which could easily come across as someone trying to promote their site. I realize the site has decent info to offer, but it calls to question what's acceptable and what's not. Also the link is plagued with many dead links - so many that the site doesn't even function correctly. So I'm not asking for you to relist the site, just asking that you treat all links equally. I live in Kalamazoo and find a site like ibegin to be invaluable - nothing like it exists. Thanks for your time. Dolemite06 03:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up here. Obviously, we have no way of knowing whether or not you're affiliated with the site ;) but if you were a spammer, I doubt you'd have bothered to explain yourself this thoroughly. MyKalamazoo probably ought to go, but Built Kalamazoo, despite its brokenness, probably ought to stay. And I don't have any problem keeping the iBegin link around now that you've explained the situation further. Feel free to re-add it.--chris.lawson 04:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate your response Chris, and I thank you for being open to my comments. Dolemite06 02:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Headwaters of the Kalamazoo River[edit]

The article presently states: "the village of Match-e-be narh-she-wish, was described as at the head of the "Kekalamazoo river" (this village became the present-day city)". The headwaters of the Kalamazoo River are nowhere near Kalamazoo, but 50+ miles away in Hillsdale County. I haven't removed the text, as I don't have access to the cited source. It may be that the source is using "head" in a different sense, and that village did become the present-day city. Sagsaw 21:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

That language appears in the 1821 Treaty of Chicago [8] and the 1827 Treaty of St. Joseph [9]. The Royce map of Indian cessions in Michigan also clearly labels the location of Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish's village at the present location of Kalamazoo. As to why the location was described as being at the the head of the "Kekalamazoo river", I can't say. olderwiser 22:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


Bilbo's pizza also brews its own beer with four styles. It's escaping me, but I'm sure there is a fifth place that sells its own beer as well.

You might be thinking of Shakespeares.. which has had a couple of its own custom beers on tap, but they get them from some other brewery across state. Cbsteven 14:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC) cbsteven

Name Origin Move[edit]

Given that a number of other articles contain information on the origins of the word "Kalamazoo," I propose relocating the Name Origin section to its own article.

Other articles which could link there include Kalamazoo River (which currently directs readers to the city's article for name history) and List of Michigan county name etymologies (which contains a vast oversimplification and could stand to link to somewhere with more information).

Any input?

Munion 23:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Kalamazoo Kangaroos?[edit]

No mention of the Kalamazoo Kangaroos who use to play for the NPSL? Rypcord 21:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

From Here to Kalamazoo[edit]

There isn't anything on the common practice of saying "From Here to Kalamazoo" or "I'm Going to Kalamazoo" (When a destination isn't known or doesn't want to be said) in New England? -- 16:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC) (Actually a lazy Tikuko)

I suspect its omission may be because most of the regular contributors to this article are probably from Kalamazoo or Michigan generally, and so none of us have heard this New England saying. --Munion 09:43, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Seal of the Corporation of Kalamazoo.png[edit]

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Image:Seal of the Corporation of Kalamazoo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 09:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Reference to lyrics of "I've Got a Gal"[edit]

There are a lot of sites that show the lyrics to this song. But MOST of them say "I'm gonna send away, hoppin' on a plane" which obviously can't make sense cuz nobody would have used an airplane in Glenn Miller's day to go to Kalamazoo; also "away" doesn't fit. A couple of sites show different lyrics, which I think is correct after listening carefully to a Glenn Miller CD: "I'm gonna send a wire, 'HOPPIN' ON A FLYER, LEAVIN' TODAY'." The part I capitalized here would be the message in the (telegraph) wire which would be a very likely way for a guy to send a message to his gal in Michigan. The flyer would be an express train. I would suggest changing the referenced url to: (removed per WP:COPYRIGHT) (talk) 23:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I've just listened to my own copy and you're right--he definitely says "flyer." I've updated the link. Mackensen (talk) 00:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Public Safety[edit]

Isn't it worth mentioning, somewhere, that Kalamazoo is one of the few cities to have a unified Department of Public Safety? It's a pretty unusual attribute. If so, the mention should use similar wording to what the Sunnyvale reference uses. Jokeboy (talk) 08:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I've started an additional article for KDPS due to its notability as the largest public safety department in the nation Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety ZacharyLassiter (talk) 21:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Opening Sentence[edit]

Isn't the first sentence inaccurate? ("Kalamazoo is the largest city in the southwest region of the U.S. state of Michigan.") Grand Rapids is larger, and looking at a state map it's very much in the southwest region of Michigan. (talk) 04:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The Grand Rapids, Michigan article says it's in west Michigan, not southwest. This is somewhat subjective. If you want to change it I won't argue. Rees11 (talk) 10:15, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
I spent an hour thinking about it after I posted last night, and I've somewhat softened on it. I've lived in Michigan most of my life and when I first read the opening sentence it struck me as incorrect. But having lived in "Northern Lower" Michigan and "Mid-Michigan" (which aren't necessarily geographically accurate) I can understand that maybe the people around Kalamszoo consider their area "Southwest" Michigan (and as you said Grand Rapids in "West" Michigan). So, although I feel it's slightly misleading, I can see it possibly as a point of pride for Kalamazoo. If that's the case I'm OK with leaving it. (talk) 16:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


I believe the part about MSU-KCMS is incorrect. The vast majority of operating costs for KCMS are funded and controlled by Bronson and Borgess. The residency programs at MSU-KCMS have nothing to do with MSU. Djaquays (talk) 03:46, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Kalamazoo in song lyrics[edit]

I note that Durova removed the following "per WP:RS and WP:LINKVIO":

There are numerous songs that reference the city name in lyrics and title, including: "All Over The World" by Rascalz, "Down on the Corner" by Creedence Clearwater Revival,[1] "I've Been Everywhere" by Hank Snow and Johnny Cash;[2] "I've Got a Gal in Kalamazoo" by Glenn Miller; "Kalamazoo" by Ben Folds Five;[3] "Kalamazoo" by Primus;[4] "Kalamazoo" by Luna;[5] and Kalamazoo by Mike Craver on his album "Shining Down".[6] The word also features in the opera Einstein on the Beach by Philip Glass. An indie film, Kalamazoo?, features the city as a backdrop.

To begin, these are references that support the fact that Kalamazoo is in the lyrics. It is hard to argue about "policy". In any event, the presumption that they are in violation of copyright is not necessarily correct (but would depend upon the terms of the sites). Wholesale deletion of any website that quotes lyrics, even official websites of the band) does not help the article. I guess it is Wiki's intent to be the 'copyright police' for the world. In any event, I would note also that I personally received a note from one of the artists thanking me for putting the reference into the article. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Stan

John Fetzer and the Fetzer Institute[edit]

Wondering why there is no mention of John Fetzer and the Fetzer Institute on this page. It seems his role in the history of radio in this city should at least be noted, not to mention the supporting hand the institute has extended financially through grants to so many programs and events that make this city so special. {{Pd janson (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)}}

Orphaned references in Kalamazoo, Michigan[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Kalamazoo, Michigan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "climate":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 08:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)


It appears to me that the overall tone of the Kalamazoo article is to inflate the importance of the city. Claims of the 4th largest CMSA in Michigan are not matched by the U.S. map at the CMSA entry, which doesn't even show a CMSA for Kalamazoo-Battle Creek. Use of the questionable MSA figure instead of the more valid urbanized area measure. A claim that K-zoo has the first pedestrian shopping mall, when the Wiki article on that subject says that it was actually in Atcheson. It to me seems like someone has been using this page for local boosterism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

The Kazoo/BC CMSA is the 85th largest in country. See List of Combined Statistical Areas. That makes it the 4th largest in Michigan. Lansing is 83rd, Grand Rapids is 38th and Detroit is 12th. And Kalamazoo is known as Mall City due to the pedestrian mall which was constructed in 1959. It isn't unheard of that a Wikipedia article is wrong, but I know there has been some contention. I wouldn't call something that the city has claimed and used as a motto for over 40 years an exaggeration, possibly just a disputed claim. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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  1. ^ Lyrics for Down on the Corner
  2. ^ Note that when I just clicked on this link, McAfee antivirus issued the following warning concerning this website "may cause a breach of browser security. Why were you redirected to this page? When we tested, this site attempted to make unauthorized changes to our test PC by exploiting a browser security vulnerability. This is a serious security threat which could lead to an infection of your PC." I've eliminated this link as a result, although I am sure that alternates on the web exist.
  3. ^ Lyrics to Kalamazoo by Ben Folds Five.
  4. ^ Lyrics for Kalamazoo by Primus
  5. ^ Lyrics for Kalamazoo by Luna
  6. ^ Mike Craver Kalamazoo.