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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are two questions:
Should One Direction be described in the past tense ("was", "were", rather than "is")
Should all members be listed as past members in the infobox or just Zayn Malik and Liam Payne?
Past tense and all listed as past members. It's been 8 years, for all important intents and purposes One Direction is broken up (there has been essentially no group activity over this entire time period), and the Wikipedia article should reflect that. Hemiauchenia (talk) 11:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per US Weekly, the band reportedly split up several months after the "indefinite hiatus" began [1] Wikipedia is not a WP:CRYSTALBALL, and the article can be changed to "is/are" if the band ever reunites. EDIT: NME article from 2023 says that 1D have not formally discussed a reunion, and consistently described all 5 as "former members" [2]Hemiauchenia (talk) 04:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given the fact that the five members have pursued solo careers and the band is no longer active after 2016. As the infobox shows years active 2010–2016, regardless of Malik's departure and Payne's death, it is clear that there is no activity going on for this band; the first sentence at least must not use present tense to cause confusion to readers and a contradiction in between the history section and infobox. Also, please remove the indefinite hiatus footnotes from the infobox or avoid using the word hiatus when there is no reunion or resumption yet. 14.0.158.69 (talk) 23:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an reminder regarding Payne's death for Editors:
On this wikipedia, the subject is the band One Direction, Payne's death is not part of the band history, anything about him, please go to his own biography page. we should be focusing on writing one direction as a band, as the main subject between 2010 and 2016 only (not individual). Just briefly mentions payne's death in the Legacy section and Band members section. 14.0.175.205 (talk) 20:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Past tense and all past members, but note I have nothing rooted in Wikipedia's guidelines to support my opinion. I just think it's the right thing to do. Liam's death makes it all the less likely 1D will ever re-form, anyway. mftp danoops22:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There hasn't been much discussion for a bit of time in regards to this, is it safe to say that the discussion can be closed? As there looks to be a consensus towards having it both "past tense" and with evidence being pointed towards "past members" as in recent sources, the members are referred to as former members. HorrorLover555 (talk) 15:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I submitted a request for closure yesterday when the template expired. It looks like consensus is for "past tense", but because of how contentious the change seems to be I thought it might make sense to have an uninvolved party close. Thesixthstaff (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since One Direction are not publicly active, listing the "current" members would only be an assumption. The article can be updated to whatever a statement says if and when it's released, but for now I think they should be listed as past members as they are described by sources. Miklogfeather (talk) 22:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both band is inactive as a matter of fact; we shouldn't be using the word hiatus (lit.'A temporary absence from the public or the mainstream.') to describe both, as we cannot predict whether they will have a comeback in the future. Per WP:CRYSTALBALL. 14.0.158.69 (talk) 09:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I mostly agree with describing it in the past tense. But how do we draw the line on hiatuses? Liam's death might eliminate the chance of a reunion, but, before that, what would be the difference from another band like Radiohead for example? Both have been inactive for years and their members became involved with other projects Lucafrehley (talk) 21:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We know that Radiohead reunited for rehearsals, and sources don't call the band members "former members" or "former bandmates" like for One Direction, so I'd say if up-to-date sources most commonly describe the band or all the band's membership in the past tense, and there's no evidence of activity, it should be written so on Wikipedia. Miklogfeather (talk) 22:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The indefinite hiatus would go toward a one direction of a lifetime and beyond. Let's not face it — Everything that has a beginning comes to an end.14.0.158.69 (talk) 00:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Present tense and only Zayn Malik and Liam Payne listed as past members. I would like to shift the focus of this discussion away from non-policy-based arguments. If we want to say that they have broken up permanently, then Wikipedia policy requires a source which explicitly says this. This discussion needs to be based on an analysis of reliable sources, but thus far, no one has provided or analyzed any sources. The official word in August 2015 was that the band was not splitting up: see this NYT article quoting a tweet from Niall Horan and Louis Tomlinson. However, I was recently reading Liam Payne's obituary in The New York Times, and it actually does state directly: But in January 2016, the band split, Us Weekly reported. That Us Weekly article cites an anonymous source: Five months after announcing they would begin an extended hiatus in March, One Direction’s Louis Tomlinson, Niall Horan, Liam Payne and Harry Styles will split, a source close to the British boy band reveals in the new issue of Us Weekly. If it is true that the band split in 2016, I'm pretty surprised that we missed this, so I looked back in the talk page archives, and there was a small discussion about the article: Talk:One Direction/Archive 3#Band split. Someone did actually try to cite the Us Weekly article saying that the band has disbanded, but another person pointed out this Billboard article which reported that Billboard's own anonymous source denies the breakup news, saying nothing has changed regarding hiatus plans for the group, and all will be revealed in due time from the band members’ own mouths. All of this is actually mentioned in the article itself under the 2015–2016: Made in the A.M. and hiatus section. Because of this discrepancy, we continued the present tense format to this day, and as far as I can tell, Payne's death hasn't changed anything. We are still waiting for some official source (or alternatively a clear consensus in reliable sources) to say that the hiatus is actually a permanent split, before we can say in Wikipedia's voice that it has become a permanent split. There are a number of traditionally reliable sources reporting the group's status as still on "indefinite hiatus": see Reuters[3], BBC[4], The Guardian[5], CBS News[6]. Mz7 (talk) 01:45, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What have music publications such as NME and Record Collector had to say about the band's status? (hiatus, split, etc.) Not just recently, but going back eight or so years: Record Collector often produce articles about bands that haven't done anything for a while. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As do countless other articles, and I doubt there's a single source listing Horan, Styles and and Tomlinson as current members unless it's parroting this Wiki page. Miklogfeather (talk) 13:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Present tense and only Zayn Malik and Liam Payne listed as past members: Listing all members of One Direction as past members could cause significant confusion because it would suggest that the band has officially disbanded, which isn't true. While One Direction is on an indefinite hiatus and Zayn Malik left in 2015, the group has not officially dissolved. Marking everyone as past members could mislead readers into thinking the group no longer exists, when, in fact, there’s always the possibility of a reunion. To avoid this confusion, it’s better to reflect the hiatus status while only listing Zayn and Liam (due to his passing) as past members, and keeping the rest as current but inactive members. Btspurplegalaxy💬🖊️03:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"always the possibility of a reunion" this is literally true of all bands, and Wikipedia is not a WP:CRYSTALBALL. Zayn Malik was part of the joint statement made by the surviving 1D members after Payne's passing on the official 1D social media accounts, which implies that there is no meaningful difference between him and the 3 supposedly remaining members of 1D. Hemiauchenia (talk) 04:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While he is mentioned in the statement, it does not change the fact that he left the group. It is important to use the infobox correctly. Moving the three current members to the past members section would not align with its intended purpose. Regardless of the hiatus duration, the group has not disbanded, and the remaining members should still be listed as current members. Btspurplegalaxy💬🖊️05:57, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, having three "current" members could mislead the reader into thinking they have continued as a trio, which isn't known. They are all formerly One Direction members, even if they didn't officially disband, as per coverage of the group. Miklogfeather (talk) 13:42, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it would cause confusion, as the current lineup reflects the group's status. Most people are aware that Zayn left in 2015 and that Liam sadly passed in 2024. The members aren't 'formerly' part of the group, since there hasn't been an official disbandment. Listing all members as past members isn't the right approach. The infobox is designed to show both the current and past lineups accurately. Btspurplegalaxy💬🖊️04:24, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Past tense. Why not we just state that fact they all five have gone solo after 2016. It is much more accurate. Using the word hiatus is vague and controversial. I am still not understanding why this wikipedia doesn't mention about their solo career at all. For the member list situation, all five on their biography page on wikipedia, their infobox writes "Formerly of One Direction". 14.0.158.69 (talk) 04:55, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's rewrite the first paragraph or the lede on here. To address all the issue and update to reflect the current situation of the band below. 14.0.158.69 (talk) 07:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Past tense and all listed as past members. There has to be a point where no news from a hiatus becomes marking the band as inactive. Nearly a decade feels sufficient; the number of reports from the past few days describing "former" members, plus the statement from members including Malik implying an absence of any current lineup, tips the balance in my view. U-Mos (talk) 11:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current second sentence is ungrammatical, reading The group consists of Niall Horan, Harry Styles, Louis Tomlinson, Zayn Malik until his departure in 2015, and Liam Payne, until his death in 2024 (emphasis mine). If this RfC is decided in favour of present tense, I think that sentence should be changed to something like The group consists of Niall Horan, Harry Styles, and Louis Tomlinson. It previously included Zayn Malik until his departure in 2015 and Liam Payne until his death in 2024. Pinging Redrose64 who reverted my earlier attempt at fixing the grammar – any objections from you (or anyone else) to implementing that now as a temporary solution, in line with the current status quo of present tense, until the conclusion of this RfC? No opinion on present or past tense apart from that. Rummskartoffel20:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with using the sentence "The group consists of Niall Horan, Harry Styles, and Louis Tomlinson" unless a reliable source says so. It gives the impression that One Direction have continued as a trio which is speculation at this point. If present tense is decided, I suggest changing "The group consists of Niall Horan, Harry Styles, Louis Tomlinson, Zayn Malik..." to "Whilst active, the group consisted of Niall Horan, Liam Payne, Harry Styles, Louis Tomlinson, and Zayn Malik until his departure in 2015" or something along those lines, with Payne's death being noted later in the lead like Britannica does. Miklogfeather (talk) 21:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rummskartoffel: I am not favouring one side or the other, I'm trying to prevent people from pre-empting the outcome of this ongoing RfC. Here's the thing. Beginning soon after the Liam Payne news broke, this article has attracted a lot of attention, with people making edits that were nullified by other edits soon after. On 17 October, Hemiauchenia started a discussion, and on 18 October, opened this RfC. There's nothing wrong with that, discussion is good, but while the discussion is ongoing it is disruptive to ignore that discussion and make exactly the kind of edits that are being discussed. That basically says "I don't care what other people feel, this is what I want it to read". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:19, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that's what you mean, but for the avoidance of doubt, I wasn't aware of the RfC when I edited, and I wouldn't have edited if I had been.
This acknowledges that the band isn't formally dissolved while also listing the core members of the band during their active period as well as Zayn's departure. Liam Payne died way after the band's active period, which is why I didn't include it. Referring to other bands with members who died outside of the active period such as The Beatles, Pantera. or Kara, death of a member usually isn't listed when introducing the members BUT it does appear in other parts of the bio.
('example 1: The Beatles bio, "Lennon was murdered in 1980, and Harrison died of lung cancer in 2001. McCartney and Starr remain musically active.")
('example 2: Pantera bio,, On December 8, 2004, Dimebag Darrell was shot and killed on stage by a mentally unstable fan during a Damageplan concert in Columbus, Ohio. Vinnie Paul went on to form Hellyeah after his brother's death, and died of heart failure in 2018,[8] leaving Brown and Anselmo as the only surviving members of the band's best-known lineup.)
So I imagine Payne's death can be mentioned in the part of the bio where the members are confirmed to have gone off on solo careers.
Proposed for 1D page: The band went on indefinite hiatus in January 2016, allowing all members to pursue other projects. During this period, Payne died in 2024 after an accidental fall a third-floor balcony at a hotel in Buenos Aires, Argentina. - K-popguardian (talk) 03:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the 