User talk:Ceoil/Archive 14

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search


Hi Ceoil, I gave the Garden of Earthly Delights a few copyedits..If you can round up a posse it might be a very interesting subject....considering...there's a lot going on there. Modernist (talk) 06:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but to be honest Bosch gives me the creeps - his heaven as much as his hell. Plus as always I'm trying to cut down. I don't think I have too much material on him. Johnbod (talk) 16:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Edits and spelling[edit]

Not a problem; I'm glad to help. I was planning to drop you a note to ask if a little light copyediting (spelling, removal of the occasional comma) would be all right with you. I didn't want to step on your toes. This picture was a favourite of mine when I was a kid -- this and The Triumph of Death. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't use the "G" word (not really me), but I've always had a bit of a dark streak. Seriously, though, I've always loved the incredible amounts of detail and layers of meaning you find in this period. Good stuff. Kafka Liz (talk)

About the 1517 documentation: Is there an account separate from the de Beatis description, or is this it? If they they are the same, perhaps we might merge the first two sentences of the Provenance section? Kafka Liz (talk) 00:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. Let me know if what I've written is inaccurate or otherwise problematic. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I suspect you are gone for the evening but just wanted to let you know I think I've got most of the typos and will check it over again in the morning (my time). Please let me know if there are any sources you would like but are can't get ahold of: I have access to an excellent library which has almost everything under the sun. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Couple of questions about this sentence... "Bosch was always a highly regarded master, and his work had wide appeal, including Charles V, while Felipe de Guevara own several of his pieces shortly after the artist's death." Did Charles V own or commission some of Bosch's work? Which ones? Who is Felipe de Guevara? I'd like to rework the sentence a bit incorporating this information so the whole paragraph flows better. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music Newsletter[edit]

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 13 - April 2008
"God is in your scrotum!'"- Perry Farrell
Project news
New members

Arleach, Panic!out, N0tverycreative, and Gallagher2x2 joined the alternative music fold during April.



You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated Giggabot (talk) 08:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


I can't find a free copy online, but here's the reference: "Divine Judgment in Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights," Peter Glum. The Art Bulletin, Vol. 58, No. 1 (Mar., 1976), pp. 45-54. Or I can email you a PDF. Let me know. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

No worries about the typos. I don't seem to be able to attach the file via "email this user," so can you drop me a line with your email address? Thanks, Kafka Liz (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Done! Hope it's useful. Kafka Liz (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Was this article helpful at all? I only ask because this Glum also has a 2007 book on the subject (haven't found reviews yet, and don't recognise the publisher), and I was wondering if it was worth a look. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. I'll work on getting hold of his book. And some wine to go with. ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 13:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Notification of Something[edit]

Fair warning, you are referred to on my user page. I don't know which one is you, but I fancy I'm taller. –Outriggr § 06:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

You, on Johnbod's page:
"I haven't yet found an angel..."
Neither have I, Ceoil. I hope they are too busy to help with wp articles, but please send her friend my way when you find one. –Outriggr § 21:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I told you before Outriggr that I have little regard for the clever bastards that have mastered this spelling thing. And when they parade my ignorance on my talk, which I own, well that makes me very vengeful indeed. War it is again so. War in our time. Shame, as I was growing tolerent, andgetting to like you. Ceoil (talk) 13:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Peraps I should make the odd typo of my own to convinse you that, of your spelling, fun I do not make. I only found that particular instants charming, Coil, just charming. Shirley we can remain on descent terms? By the way, in the intrest of transparency you should publish (and then amend as necesary) your list of enemies. See WP:DONOTBENOTNICETOPEOPLEWHOARENOTNICETOYOU. –Outriggr § 02:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Im sorry and want to be friends again. A list of ememies I can email, but be aware as I am so fickle it changes from day to day. Today your not on it. Ceoil (talk) 08:15, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


my mistake-- (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


Greetings, enemy. So that's what your name means. And all this time I had supposed you fancied yourself the Copy editing oil lubricating the engine that is Wikipedia--boy, would that have been lame. I love your work and wish I could purchase a Ceoil-based clone-editor-servant (on eBay?) who would dutifully write better articles about Charles Sheeler and Wayne Thiebaud while I take naps. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 02:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Ceoil is one of my clients, Mr. Fat Man, and he is fully engaged in projects—but there are others, and I'd be happy to discuss the going rate for a clone-editor-servant with you. Vandalay Art Industries represents talented humanities editors from most developed nations. All are over 18 years of age, and some are especially eager to serve the reading appetites (or skimming, if that's your thing) of an engaging gentleman such as yourself. –Outriggr § 03:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
You've heard of Caravaggio then, Outriggr? And yet you still know nothing of the order of things; of what is mightier than what.[1]. Ceoil (talk) 23:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
What's this about owls? Doesn't the article have enough images already? They're crowding me man. –Outriggr § 00:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Great King Rat[edit]

I listened to Scarlett Johanssen's debut album today. She sounds like a boring, bland version of Liz Fraser circa "Song to the Siren". To add insult to injury, Bowie has guest appearances on two tracks, but he's only singing background vocals! And they put his vocals low in the mix! Retards . . . WesleyDodds (talk) 02:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

My turn. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I also listened to it today. Played it for a girl I have a crush on, actually. If anything you need to hear it again. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
My god, man, what's with your edit history today? Suicide? Self-injury? Someone needs to stop being so miserable. Go watch a movie or something. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Screw that. What you really need to do is find an article that combines indie and paintings, and make that an FA. Stone Roses perhaps? WesleyDodds (talk) 01:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, it's not outright bad; just very underwhelming and blah. Definitely not worth buying if she weren't a famous actress. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I am slightly offended that none of my articles are listed as your favorites. Do they require more images of paintings? WesleyDodds (talk) 04:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

You wouldn't happen to be able to find the NME and Melody Maker reviews for Murmur, would you? WesleyDodds (talk) 09:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Have you contacted them before? There's a lot of e-mails to sort through on the website. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Do you think mentioning that I want the reviews to cite on Wikipedia would help? Maybe I should throw in a YouTube link . . . WesleyDodds (talk) 21:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

What's this I hear about you taking a break? WesleyDodds (talk) 02:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

This is how I imagine we collaborate on articles together: [2]. Wiki editing requires a certain amount of flair and dashing. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Looks like we'll have to update the article. Are you going to buy it? WesleyDodds (talk) 21:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
According to the new issue of Q there's a new autobiography/extended rant by Mark E. Smith out. WesleyDodds (talk) 01:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Horses. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm feeling rather angsty myself today. More angst-rock: [3], [4], [5]. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Fair warning: you're going to get an "orphaned fair-use media" notice on your talk page soon. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Is e-mail not sufficient? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Things would be so much easier if you developed psychic powers and transmitted it to my brain. By the way, seen any good movies lately? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I highly recommend the new Indiana Jones movie, if you're into movies about hard-ass archeologists who punch evil commies for two hours. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of documentaries: Lemmy. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Not. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Time to RAWK. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, then. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
So that's what you sound like. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
This is what we sound like in California: [6] WesleyDodds (talk) 23:28, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm curious about this magic roundabout now. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry about that faux pas of Irish/Californian international relations. Hopefully this link] works, and we can avoid armed conflict. Oddly enough the quality of this upload is superior to that of the "official" one. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
LA bands are generally full of shit, and San Francisco bands have by and large been filthy hippies. So it's either Green Day or Pavement, and I like Green Day more than I like Pavement. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Huey Lewis' old band was the backing band for My Aim Is True, and the News wrote music for Back to the Future, so all is forgiven. Fun fact: I was born in the same city CVB is from. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Let's rock. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll raise you one Josef K video. WesleyDodds (talk) 00:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Not as good as a hand puppet singing Heaven 17, but it's rather fey. WesleyDodds (talk) 00:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep an eye out on Be Here Now (album), so that critical consensus doesn't change from "pretty awful and disappointing" to "this poll says it's great!" again. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Running. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

There's also the dead obvious. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Looking at your pages I'm thinking I should increase my FA output. Any project suggesstions? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, to do that one I would have to enlist the help of someone more knowledgable and enthused about the group (probably a certain former indie kid from the soon-to-be-independent Republic of Cork who likes paintings and messing with fellow editors named Outriggr), and that wouldn't help the disparity between our FA counts, now would it? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I really like this song for some reason: [7]. I think it's the bassline in the second verse, mainly. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Epic. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

We of course have to have a Cure song. Heartbreak song no. 1. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Heartbreak song no. 2. It's a demo and not as great as the finished version, but it's better than linking to a video some twat made by putting the album track against some still pictures. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Highlander is awesome, for so many reasons. Sean Connery, sword fights, Queen soundtrack. It was robbed at the Oscars that year. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Heartbreak song no. 3. This is kind of obvious. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Heartbreak song no. 4. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Heartbreak song no. 5, if you're the angry sort. This is how we Americans typically deal with our emotions: turn the guitars up and yell a lot. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I love how that Fall link has a snippet of post-Peter Gabriel Genesis in it. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Maybe this will cheer you up. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Lay off the mope rock and watch this on an endless loop. Greatest music video ever? Quite possibly. Pay attention, because there will be a quiz later. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Cover. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:46, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget your daily recommended dose of ROCKING OUT. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
[Is relevant right now. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
For your consideration: Indopug and I are currently talking about older band FAs, and Pink Floyd came up. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Not a fan of Floyd myself, just rather aghast at the quality of the article. How about a GA then? For a group so well-documented and oft-discussed, there are some rather basic problems in the article. I just had to list the members of the band in the lead, because there was no mention of them whatsoever. That seems like a kind of basic thing that should be there. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
"Slim Slow Slider" is my favorite out of that one. Oh, and no way am I letting you win the contest yet. 23:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I was looking through Rock's Backpages again for Nirvana sources, and I found this quote from Kurt Cobain about his family lineage: "Actually it was Cobain, but the Coburns screwed it up when they came over. They came from Country Cork, which is a really weird coincidence, because when we toured Ireland, we played in Cork and the entire day I walked around in a daze. I'd never felt more spiritual in my life. It was the weirdest feeling and-I have a friend who was with me who could testify to this-I was almost in tears the whole day." WesleyDodds (talk) 10:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

This is why I'm not an admin. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

This week's collaboration is right up your alley. If you don't like that song I can give you another. 08:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey there[edit]

Glass of Jamesons.jpg Hope I'm not being out of line. Also hope it's not the wrong flavour. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

You drink Jameson's by the pint? Hard man... Kafka Liz (talk) 02:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to say hai[edit]

Have a great day ! -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


How come we all start working on Garden at the same time each day?? –Outriggr § 00:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

You mean each night. Gnight. Ceoil (talk) 00:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Because Europeans never sleep. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Ha, we do from time to time, but more efficenly than ye. Ceoil (talk) 00:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Ceoil. Have a nice vacation or other separation from wikipedia (which you mentioned somewhere). That is all. No cleverness here. OK. –Outriggr § 00:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

WBOSITG's RfA[edit]

Battle of Waterloo[edit]

Hi there! I just had a (rather pleasant) surprise realising we're both busy adding images to the article, almost simultaneously. Anyway, have a peek at the talk page - I've found a few others that can probably be slotted in, and have started a section for discussing the new images.

I've also found this site, full of prints from the day. Although they've put copyright notices on them, since the copies are faithful two-dimensional reproductions of public domain works, we should be within our rights to take them, strip the copyright out, and use them ourselves. -Kieran (talk) 21:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I suspect the images may be tricky to find elsewhere, but we'd probably only want a few. What is nice is that they describe particular events within the battle, although most of those are fairly low-quality ink drawings.
Incidentally, and just in case you didn't know, we're in full FA-drive swing on the article right now, so your help is especially welcome. -Kieran (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

RFA Thanks[edit]

Thanks for your support at my recent Request for adminship. I hope you find I live up to your expectations. Best, Risker (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Thought of you[edit]

Let's see now what you gentlemen can make of this fine mess. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

RfA thanks![edit]

Solo Dios Sabe.jpg RfA: Many thanks
Many thanks for your participation in my recent request for adminship. I am impressed by the amount of thought that goes into people's contribution to the RfA process, and humbled that so many have chosen to trust me with this new responsibility. I step into this new role cautiously, but will do my very best to live up to your kind words and expectations, and to further the project of the encyclopedia. Again, thank you. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 05:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Right wing[edit]

I was just about to rework this a bit - want me to hold off? Or butt out? ;) Kafka Liz (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't have chosen better -- that's a favorite of mine. Article will be on its way shortly. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Done. I think it's pretty close. If possible I'd like to add to the legacy section, as Modernist suggested... well, I'd like someone to, anyway. I've been think about trying to improve the flow of the Interpretation section, as they (forget who exactly) suggested at the PR. Other than that, I think it's looking pretty good. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
By the way, how do the legal documents fit in with the lust theme of the man and the pig? Kafka Liz (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Garden FA nom[edit]

Is it ok if I continue to tweak it a bit, or should I leave it alone for now? I haven't been through an FA before, and I know the article content is supposed to remain relatively stable. All in all, I think it looks really excellent; you've done a brilliant job. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 00:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I have made too many edits here to vote, but I will keep an eye on it. Should be fine. Johnbod (talk) 00:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Got a bit sidetracked this evening, so the stuff I wanted to work on will have to wait for the morning. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about messing up the formatting. Quick question: Should all the references mentioned in the notes also be in the bibliography as well? I noticed one or two that were missing. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think only the one I just added, now that I know we're not including articles. Regarding ISBNs, they're a constant nightmare for me, formatting wise. They never seem to do what I want, but I'll give it a shot. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
In that case, I'll remove the Glum article from the bibliography and add his book. Kafka Liz (talk) 19:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
From the looks of it, books we should add to the bibliography are Kleiner (note 6); Veen and Ridderbos (n.12); Snyder (n.61); Rooth (n.67), and the aforementioned Glum book. I assume the citations should be abbreviated accordingly? Kafka Liz (talk) 19:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll wait and follow your lead, then. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll get on it. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The book cited as "Grange": Is Snyder its author, or does it not have an author listed? Kafka Liz (talk) 20:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Glum ISBN is fixed. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I just quickly reverted your change to Pearls Before Swine (band) (unfortunately without having first read all the edit histories) because I've always understood that the album cover shows part of the "Hell" part of the Garden of Delights triptych, and the "Earthly" reference should properly be applied only to the central panel. Has this arisen and been discussed elsewhere? Sorry to chip in - good luck with the FA nom. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

"Hairy people"[edit]

Aren't those the von Baldasses? Kafka Liz (talk) 23:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That's why he was known as 'Wig for short. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Did any of the sources mention Mary Magdalene in regards to the hairy woman? There's an iconographic type of the Repentant Magdalene where she looks a lot like a Wookee. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's Friday night, so I may not be here too long. I just intended to take a quick look and got sucked in. I'm taking a crack at that sentence on the Interpretation section now. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts? Kafka Liz (talk) 00:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Cripes, I hadn't seen all the new comments at the review! No wonder! Kafka Liz (talk) 00:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I saw the good review! You're right about calling in other copyediting eyes - I've been concentrating so much on sentence flow that I discover I'm missing some holes in the overall train of thought. Got your back come the morning, though.
I also saw the page blanking... I don't know him as well as you do, obviously, but figured something bad must be going on. I'll drop him a line... Kafka Liz (talk) 00:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

"I discovered Firefox yesterday, which as a built in spell-checker." Was that deliberate, then? ;) Sorry to crap out on you yesterday... It's a holiday weekend here and the weather was just too amazing to stay indoors. And thank you, for your kind words and encouragement the other day. Kafka Liz (talk) 12:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Mail. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 00:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Excellent!! Kafka Liz (talk) 01:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Ah, looks like you knew before I told you. Congratulations back atcha. You're the one who got us all started here. Kafka Liz (talk) 01:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi Ceoil, I like that the article gets to the point right away with Triptych. It gets right to the painting right off the bat, and that's what it should do. Sources etc. can come later as they do. You are doing a great job - by the way...Modernist (talk) 21:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


The tool I used is here. On my page there are some links to other examples. Do show me what you produce and ask if you need more advise. As always its only obvious after you have done it... cheers. Victuallers (talk) 15:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC) You want to save it too! Oh well... I don't know how to save "work in progress", however if it is 99% finished then I merely cut and p[aste from the tool into a wikipedia page that is in edit mode. If you get really clever then you put them in templates. If you find a better way or fail to understand my quick reply then I'll speak to you soon. Victuallers (talk) 21:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Popular culture#In popular culture[edit]

I think the above section should be created forthwith and should contain all of the trivia sections ever cut from any article. A massive wharehouse of popular culture in popular culture where the popular cultists can worship it. (Thanks for giving Guardian angel the heave ho. I'm waiting for an "In popular culture" section to be added to what may be my best article, Ormulum.) Geogre (talk) 00:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Request for Peer Review help[edit]

Thank you for you work as a peer review volunteer. Since March, there has been a concerted effort to make sure all peer review requests get some response. Requests that have gone three days or longer without a substantial response are listed at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I have three requests to help this continue.

1) If you are asked to do a peer review, please ask the person who made the request to also do a review, preferably of a request that has not yet had feedback. This is fairly simple, but helps. For example when I review requests on the backlog list, I close with Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, ...

2) While there are several people who help with the backlog, lately I have been doing up to 3 or 4 peer reviews a day and can not keep this up much longer. We need help. Since there are now well over 100 names on the PR volunteers page, if each volunteer reviewed just one PR request without a response from the list each month, it would easily take care of the "no response" backlog. To help spread out the load, I suggest those willing pick a day of the month and do a review that day (for example, my first edit was on the 8th, so I could pick the 8th). Please pick a peer review request with no responses yet, if possible off the backlog list. If you want, leave a note on my talk page as to which day you picked and I will remind you each month.

3) I have made some proposals to add some limits to peer review requests at Wikipedia_talk:Peer_review#Proposed_limits. The idea is to prevent any one user from overly burdening the process. These seem fairly reasonable (one PR request per editor per day, only four total PR requests per editor at a time, PR requests with cleanup banners can be delisted (like GAN quick fail), and wait two weeks to relist a PR request after it is archived), but have gotten no feedback in one week. If you have any thoughts on these, please weigh in.

Thanks again for your help and in advance for any assistance with the backlog. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The Garden of Earthly Delights[edit]

Great coordinated a successful effort..and congratulations...nice surprise.. Modernist (talk) 03:59, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Well done[edit]

Much appreciation...Modernist (talk) 23:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Fine Arts Star.png The Barnstar of Fine Arts
The Barnstar of Fine Arts for a job well done at the Garden

Tafel IV o.jpg
Second that. Please accept these German soldiers as a token of my appreciation. You never know when they may come in handy. Kafka Liz (talk) 23:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes well done all - I'm pretty busy now, but we'll nail that legacy in the end! Johnbod (talk) 02:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Peter Wall[edit]

Many thanks for your copy-editing. I'll wait until you're done before diving in after you. But I did thought it worth commenting on one of your changes here. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 23:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The FA-Team[edit]

Hi. There has been some discussion of how to improve the FA-Team's functioning. It's be grand if you could comment on the new suggested structure, and perhaps also look at our current proposals. Thanks. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 18:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


Working Man's Barnstar.png The Working Man's Barnstar
To Ceoil, on the occasion of a rainbow. Thanks. -User:SusanLesch

Re. Peter Wall II[edit]

(copied over from my talk page:) Thanks so much for the moral support. And also for helping out with the copy-editing: much appreciated. Unfortunately, and it really pains me, I've decided to withdraw the FAC, as I don't think the article is stable any more, and in its current state I would have to vote against it, too. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 08:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

More on Peter Wall[edit]

Hi Ceoil. I noted Jbmurray's concerns about my changes to Peter Wall, and posted this section on the talk page so we could discuss it. I was kind of hoping he would explain in more detail what his concerns were, and he did offer to do so via e-mail, but I said it was best to discuss content issues on Wikipedia and he accepted that. I was a bit taken aback that he was distressed enough to withdraw the FAC, and I'm pleased that he has decided to sleep on it. I noticed you have reverted some of my changes. Would you be willing to discuss on the talk page, or do you want to wait until Jbmurray is back online? Carcharoth (talk) 10:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, our posts crossed. I'll switch over to the article talk page. Carcharoth (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I think we should keep the discussion on the article talk page. Carcharoth (talk) 10:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


has been tendered. Cheers, JNW (talk) 16:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative music newsletter[edit]

The Alternative music WikiProject Newsletter
Issue 14 - May 2008
"I go to a fucking office and I write. I'm not one of these dickheads who opens a beer, high fives his mates and opens his mouth and shit pours out, which he then writes on a beer mat. It doesn't come easy."- Nick Cave
Project news
New members

Seraphim Whipp, Guitardude3600, Lunar Jesters, Kristmace, Freedom (song), TwentiethApril1986, JD554, Thom, and Sethward joined the alternative music fold during May.



You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up for WikiProject Alternative music. If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter, or would like to receive it in a different form, add your name to the appropriate section here. This newsletter was delivered by the automated Giggabot (stop!) 07:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


... for the barnstar and for your kind words. I really enjoyed working on the article with you guys. :) I'd be happy to help at the Sistine Chapel as well; thanks for the invite. Kafka Liz (talk) 16:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Baby Boy (song)[edit]

Hi Ceoil, thanks for the help. I left comments there. Please check. --Efe (talk) 01:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I saw your name in the PR volunteer list and I am inviting you here: Wikipedia:Peer review/Déjà Vu (Beyoncé song)/archive2. Thanks. --Efe (talk) 03:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi, I noticed that you said you were listed at WP:PRV and willing to copy-edit music articles. I was wondering if you would be willing to help me out ? I have put the Doggystyle article up for FAC and it has been requested that it receives a copy-edit before it can pass as a FA. A partial list of what has to be changed is at the FAC page, but I think the article would need a complete copy-edit to ensure it has good grammer and that the prose flows well. I personally don't know what to look for, so I would really appreciate your help. Can you help me out ? Please get back to me soon :) - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 18:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ceoil. Thanks for the help. I hope you can drop some comments there. For Doggystyle, I did some cleanup there. --Efe (talk) 00:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Its FA now. =) --Efe (talk) 01:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Woah ha! Ceoil (talk) 01:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your support vote at Roman Catholic Church NancyHeise (talk) 04:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Not just another drop in the ocean[edit]

Yeah. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

As I am not a Catholic (Protestantism, yay), explain to me Catholism in ten words or less. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Right. If you give me eleven words I'll convert you; so best you just move along about your business. (Oh, and its Astral Weeks night again tonight). Ceoil (talk) 23:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
What do you think of Moondance? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Barely worthy of a wedding band. Fat uncle music. Ceoil (talk) 23:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
True story: I asked my brother to buy me Astral Weeks on CD and he came back with Moondance. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Euf; I share your pain. When I was 11 i asked my 7 yr old brother to go to the city to get me Queen I. He came back, nine days later, all excited, with Queen II. We have made up since, but Jesus Christ; Queen II?? Ceoil (talk) 00:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Few and far between decent Van Morrison tracks I've found on you tube - spare a dime? Ceoil (talk) 00:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

There really is an unusually high proportion of wankers covering Van Morrison songs on their guitars and filming it for YouTube. Can't find anything decent. How about some more Paul instead? WesleyDodds (talk)
Thanks man. Paul is always welcome around here. Ceoil (talk) 07:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Could you upload a soundclip of "Transmission" to Joy Division? I've wanted to move "She's Lost Control" down to the Musical Style section for ages, where it can be used in context to talk about Hannett making Morris play his drum kit in separate pieces and all that rationaled fair-use goodness. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Give me a few minutes. Can you look after the FU stuff though. Ceoil (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
It'd be basically "This clarifies as fair use because this song is fantastic. And we talk about it a bit; maybe you might learn something". WesleyDodds (talk) 11:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Don't expain; do. Any others you want, now that I'm in the mood ;-) Ceoil (talk) 11:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Gonna need some Banshees ones soon enough, but I have to expand the bio beyond 1979 for that to work. Uhhh . . . give me a few moments. I'm going to stare at my iPod looking for inspiration. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Well "happy house" would be my choice, though I'm not a fan. Ceoil (talk) 11:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't even think I've gotten as far as "Happy House" in the bio yet. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I have to admit that some of the thoughts I had while watching this could get me blocked from the internets not to mind wikipedia. Still, Jesus! Ceoil (talk) 11:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Take you time Dodds; its ok nobody is watching. Except me and my 4 zombie admin accounts Ceoil (talk) 11:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Uh, I guess some R.E.M. clips for the albums. Something for Murmur besides the frankly overrated "Radio Free Europe", and so on. Maybe replace the soundclip for "Come as You Are' at Nevermind with a 10% length copy if you have it on you. Wish I could think of more right now, but all the others I'm thinking of would require me to write some brilliant prose in the article body to "use the fair use media in an educational context", and while I love doing that, I'm a bit tired right now. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Um "Harbor coat"? By a mile my favorite rem song. Anyway, G'nit. Ceoil (talk) 11:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I'm up an eating hamburgers. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Just finished watching A Hard Day's Night. I think those boys might be on to something. Do you think they're notable enough to warrant a Wiki article? WesleyDodds (talk) 01:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


Dear Ceoil, thank you for your helpful editing of the RCC page. I appreciate your improvements very much. Thanks. NancyHeise (talk) 11:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the "As a result" is referring to the monastic impact mentioned in the previous sentence with respect to the conversion of the Lombards and visigoths. But it is fine as you've rewritten it. Xandar (talk)

Ceoil, I think all of your edits are absolutely fine. The monastic impact was actually one of the reasons for the conversions, it was not our invention but the text you left was fine too. I'll let you decide on that. NancyHeise (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Excellent job on the prose, Ceoil. We needed you and we appreciate you. Have a great time at your friends party. All the best. NancyHeise (talk) 23:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi Ceoil, WesleyDodds pointed me in your direction as you may have sources for Bunnymen info – although he warned me about talking to you when you're drunk! ;-). I'm currently working through their albums in an effort to get them to at least GA. I've got the liner notes from the first 4 expanded remasters and I've got the Turquoise Days book. If you have anything that might useful I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks --JD554 (talk) 09:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Roman-Persian Wars[edit]

How many times are you going to change your userpage?! Well, as a genuine self-seeker now that I am working on an article that I intend to submit to FAC, and which is already undergoing an A-Class Review in WP:MILHIST, I remembered you again! I'd be grateful if you could have a look on the prose, and comment, in general, on any deficiencies you may find. Cheers!--Yannismarou (talk) 19:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Sistine Chapel[edit]

Is this on the back burner for now? Kafka Liz (talk) 00:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm waiting for a few books I ordered from Amazon over the weekend. Modernist suggested we tackle the ceiling instead, but I'm not decided on that yet. I have books on Michelangelo and Raphel, each of which go into good detail on the chapel, but am waiting for bios of Botticelli and Julius II. Haven't found anything on its architecture yet. Ceoil (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The books I found focus mainly on the walls, but there are plenty more that I haven't checked out yet. I'll look into the architecture thing. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Great. The article on the chapel would be mainly summary style, and we would need to spin out a lot of the existing content, mostly the Botticelli sections. Ceoil (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Sistine Chapel Ceiling[edit]

The references pertain to that entire section, not simply the last paragraph which includes two inline refences. The info has been condensed from those references, which is why the references pertains to the entire section, not to a number of individual "facts". I wrote the stuff, and I referenced it. Amandajm (talk) 01:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Most of the sections are referenced in the same way, for the same reason. What do you suggest? Amandajm (talk) 01:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
In the meantime, please stop removing them! You seem more concerned about a minor infringement of format than the referencing of the mmaterial! Amandajm (talk) 01:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Point taken. Ceoil (talk) 01:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The Sistine Chapel Ceiling is already a GA. If I were to tidy it up a bit it would probably come up to FA standard.
I just took a look at Garden of Worldly delights, to see what you people have been doing. I haven't been buying into the FA process, because I find it beastly.
However, my comments are that despite the fact that it is well referenced and meets the nitpicking requirements, it isn't well-written enough to satisfy MY requirements of an article.
A statement like "Such and such is considered the artist's best known work" is cautious B.S. It either IS or isn't thhe best known work, or else it is or isn't one of his best known works. To say it is considered a best known work is to say that those who consider, consider they know it, which if you follow me, you will see is nonsense. And the statement is referenced'?!
The often-used phrase "It is likely...." is frequently used ungrammatically, and occurs in the Bosch intro a couple of times.
There are parts of the article where one referenced fact is piled on another often in an order that doesn't quite make sense, because of the desire to meet FA requirements for citing sources. Some of the silly people want every single sentnece with an individual refernce, which is ridiculous, and simply not done in most academic writing.
I found an article the other day that took it to the absolute extreme. A single sentence had five inline citations, all of which directed to the same page of the same article, as in "John Brown was born on 3rd March 1966[1], at 5 am[2], in King George's Hospital for Mothers and Babies, Missenden Road, Camperdown[3] to Mary, nee Smith[4] wife of Peter Brown[5]." This is the sort of ludicrous over-referencing that people do to meet FA requirements. I can't be bothered trying to score llittle stars. I'd rather take on a big generic article and knock it into a workable shape.
About the general article on the Sistine Chapel, yes it needs an overhaul. I haven't looked at Michelangelo for a long time. I decided to opt out of that won. It probably needs work as well. Amandajm (talk) 02:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm most sorry! I was only referring to the one expression. I have read that sort of thing in quite a few articles, where the writer dooesn't want to get challenged over making a statement like "The statue of David is Michelangelo's best know sculpture." I personally don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the Garden of Worldly Delights is B's best known work. Do you mind if have a little fiddle? I probably won't change any content at all, but just slightly rearrange and link material.
As for the Sistine Chapel- Go for it! Amandajm (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
That's very nice of you! :-) I'm home sick. Amandajm (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Brian Boru[edit]

Dear Ceoil (wonderful to see the Bosch painting here, it was one of the first I admired at Web Gallery of Art), I'd like to ask why the entire section 'In popular culture' was removed from Brian Boru. I know that Trivia sections are 'discouraged' but I thought that the 'Popular culture' bit was rather useful, e. g. for leading a reader to the eponymous Alan Stivell album which is now often seen as groundbreaking. Saluti cordiali, HTO (talk) 01:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Why the Brian Boru deletions?[edit]

I know a lot of those things are factoids, but they demonstrate the persistence of Brian Boru in modern consciousness, in some case his very basic position in Irish (and more generally modern Celtic) culture and identity. Why remove them? At best, the more trivial one like the vodka might be deleted, but most of it is quite worthy of note. --Svartalf (talk) 12:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)