User talk:Lupin/archive6

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Popup disambigation tool[edit]

Lupin - The popup disambiguation tool is truely great, so far its worked like a charm! Thanks a lot! The only thing I've noticed is that it lets you try and fix disambiguation links on Special Pages (like "What links here"). I haven't tried it to see what happens. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 00:23, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I found another one. I use FireFox 1.0.6. Here's how to reproduce the error. Edit a new page, click to get a cursor in the edit box, place the mouse over one of the links above the edit box (causing a popup to appear), start typing. For me, this causes the title of the page (as it appears at the top of the window) to grow with each new key I press. Strange. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 00:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Copy that - these should be problems no more :-) Thanks for taking the time to let me know. Lupin|talk|popups 01:27, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Lupin!! KZollman pointed me to your fabulous dab tool within popups! Works great.  :-) I think I've performed over 1,000 dab corrections using the tool. The only thing I have to do manually is when a link is redirected to a disambig page. I have to find and fix those manually (or temporarily redirect the redirect page to the dab page and use your awesome tool).  ;-) An example is Keyboard. Keyboards redirects to Keyboard which is a disambiguation page. So, there were a couple hundred links to Keyboards which most of them should have been Keyboard instrument. Even though the popup tool shows the ability to dab the link, it doesn't find it cause it is looking for the wrong wiki tag :-). All-in-all, a freaking great addition to any toolbox!!!! >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist 01:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Wow, it's great to hear from (nearly) satisfied users who are getting so much use of the tool! I spotted the bug with redirects today and it's on my list of things to sort out. Lupin|talk|popups 02:01, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Hey, you've made me very happy already, so I'd say 99.99% satisfied is pretty darn good!! I am surprised more dab'ers haven't taken off with this. It's truly amazing. >: Roby Wayne Talk • Hist 03:47, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


Barnstar of Diligence

On RC patrol I often see meagre little articles on English villages which aren't deletable, but in themselves just look sad and unloved. Adding one of your "dotty maps" invariably makes a "what is this article doing here?" article look like an article which, given some TLC, could go places. Have a well-deserved barnstar, and keep up the good work! Tonywalton  | Talk 21:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Lupin|talk|popups 22:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)


Just a note about the use of this template. It is generally intended for articles that are specifically problematic, not just any that are missing references. Adding it to every unreferenced article has been rejected in numerous discussions. Also it is not meant to go at the top of articles. If yu look at the talk page of the template, it is universally agreed that it belongs either on the talk page or at the bottom of articles. - SimonP 14:07, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing me up on this. I'll place this template at the bottom of articles in the future. I don't actually see the distinction between a "specifically problematic" article and one which lacks references - our own guidelines says that lacking references is a problem. Having read the template talk page, I think that I will reserve the use of this tag (and its companion, {{primarysources}} which I just created) for non-stubs, though, and I like the idea of putting this in the References or section, or creating one if it doesn't exist. Lupin|talk|popups 14:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
On a specific case: why did you add this template to Marijampolė municipality? It is a stub badly needing my attention, but what's the reason for the template? Where am I missing something? Renata3 13:02, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I came across the page by hitting the "Random article" button and noticed that it contained a lot of unsourced data with no obvious way of checking it. Lupin|talk|popups 13:24, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Koç Holding[edit]

I changed the subtitle "External links" to "References" in the hope to satisfy your complaint. Please check it again and remove your insertion if it is OK. Otherwise let me know what else to do. Thanks. CeeGee 14:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Evan Luard[edit]

The sources for the information contained in the Luard article will essentially be verifiable from the articles that the Luard article will link to, most notably the Oxford West and Abingdon and Oxford (UK Parliament constituency) pages. The Oxwab article is already sourced, and as I build the Oxford article, it will also be fully sourced. Is this sufficient to qualify as "referenced"? --New Progressive 15:47, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest copying the relevant references to the article itself rather than relying on other articles. After all, they may be deleted from the articles which Evan Luard links to or replaced with other references at some stage in the future. Lupin|talk|popups 15:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Globalise Resistance[edit]

Hi, just wondering why you removed critisms from Globalise Resistance page?[1]--JK the unwise 17:40, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Hm, I don't remember doing that. I probably did something stupid with an edit conflict. Sorry! Lupin|talk|popups 17:44, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
No worries, I think it was the unwise 18:10, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Popup nav tool[edit]

Thanks for that, it's a really cool tool. IceKarma 20:56, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


You placed a {{verify}} notice on the article for the book "Exterminator!". Could you please explain what references you require? The book is the reference. (Please reply on my talk page). Cheers. 23skidoo 00:20, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I've deleted all the information you feel needs to be sourced as I cannot provide verification and have no time to do so. 23skidoo 16:26, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Likewise, I'm curious what references you think need verifying in the Angel of the Morning article. Song recordings are not generally sourced here on Wikipedia (maybe they should be), and the reference to Jerry Maguire is self-evident by seeing the film. Reply via my Talk page or yours, as you see fit. Nae'blis 08:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for dropping me a note. I believe that every article should be fully referenced, which means that every assertion made should be verifiable by reading references which are listed in the article. For example, in the Angel of the Morning article, several assertions are made which I would not immediately know how to verify. These include
  • the original song-writer
  • Juice Newton's version met with "further success" compared to Simone's
  • Shaggy's Angel song was indeed a reworking of this song as claimed
  • Tom Cruise sings the original , and does so badly (remember, no original research; even this should be sourced)
I'll admit now that this is not the most egregious case of unbacked assertions on the 'pedia, but still I think that the article would be greatly improved if it could, in principle, be independently verified by consulting references listed in the article rather than by using some unspecified "common sense" resource for songs. Even if there's a standard well respected reference work or resource for song recordings, then it should appear in the article. As a non-expert, I shouldn't have to know what this is - I should be told. Lupin|talk|popups 11:33, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Again, I'm wondering about your {{verify}} at Particle physics phenomenology. I don't know what to add there. What references would you add to Tennis to explain what kind of activity it is — it's not like there are any contoversial claims made that require verification? I think that article is rather a stub. --RE 17:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Let me add though, that I completely agree with you that it's important to have references, that is something I often find lacking in articles... --RE 17:47, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that the purpose of wikipedia's policy which requires that articles provide references is solely to verify "disputed" or "non-obvious" facts, ie facts which people decide to challenge. The purpose is surely to make it possible to verify every assertion made, whether or not any particular person considers it "obvious". Otherwise how can we make any claim to be an authoritive reference? For example, in Particle physics phenomenology, I would like references to support the following claims:
  • particle physics phenomonology is a recognized term
  • the description of it in the article is accurate
  • the examples cited are indeed part of this subject
I don't think that Tennis is a great example of an article that doesn't appear to need references - there are lots of people in the world who don't know what tennis is, and who may want to check that the article is not making spurious claims. Having every fact referenced is also an excellent way to make it harder for vandals to insert plausible-sounding nonsense.
Any assertions made which seem "obvious" to the author and are not referenced surely fall foul of Wikipedia:No original research. This is an excellent policy, and a corollary to it is that references must be provided in one form or another.
Finally, there is a secondary side-effect of requiring articles to provide references (which although beneficial in my opinion, is not the main reason that they should be provided -- the main reason is that not doing so damages Wikipedia's credibility as a reliable reference work). Making references mandatory would set a standard that I think should replace the current unclearly defined standards of "notability" that many people seem to want articles to meet on AfD. Many articles which people deem "un-notable" are hard to find references for, and almost every article that people seem to agree is "notable" can be found credible references for. It is my opinion that requiring references would be a much more transparent way of estabilishing an "encyclopedic" standard than the current mish-mash of half-baked ideas, which seem to lack any clear foundation. Lupin|talk|popups 23:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, you certainly don't have to convince me about the importance of references, and you are right in what you are saying. (Though in a newly started article like this one the references are not the most obvious thing missing.) --RE 16:11, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

"adding section title again for consistency on transcluded pages" seems wrong to me[edit]

Lupin's comment on Sam Vimes' talk page

OK - the rationale behind it is that the content is transcluded onto Lancashire County Cricket Club in 2005, Middlesex County Cricket Club in 2005 and so on. The third-level headings is simply to get correct headings on this page - and the Lancashire v Middlesex 18 September 2005 really shouldn't stand on its own (articles like those were originally placed as a subpage of Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket, then moved to subpages of 2005 English cricket season, and now they stand woefully alone but are probably going to be merged within the next week or so. I realise that it makes the article look rather odd and non-standard, but the alternative is making the "county cricket club..."-pages look even worse, which I don't want since it's the transcluded pages I want people to read. Having said all that, it's probably a system that gives the editors of these articles more headaches and arguments than it's good for, and we're thinking of a new one at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket. Oh, and thanks for those lovely pop-ups :) Sam Vimes 12:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Right. As long as those articles which only exist to be transcluded are moved out of the root of the main article namespace and into a subpage then I'm a happy bunny. Lupin|talk|popups 23:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


I wonder if it would be possible to teach the popups to open their links in a new window (or tab)? Controlled by a new variable, of course. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, this shouldn't be terribly hard. Perhaps. I'll take a shot at this. To plug a new feature, if you turn on keyboard shortcuts, then in firefox or opera you can hit "e control-enter" to edit a page in a new tab, "h control-enter" to see the history in a new tab, and so on. (There must be ways to do this in other browsers too, but I don't know the shortcut for opening new tabs). Lupin|talk|popups 23:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm trying out your script right now. As far as the shortcuts go, is there any other way to access them, some way that doesn't require the use of ctrl-enter? By the way, it is a very nice script. Thanks. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 22:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
You can just press enter to launch the link in the same window if you like. Alternatively, I could probably come up with an option to just launch the link automatically when you press the shortcut key if you think that this would be useful. Lupin|talk|popups 04:24, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
This seems to be working, the new windows business at least. I don't know if new tabs is possible from javascript (although people can specify that they want all new window links to open in new tabs from their browser prefs). The new version is in the development version, popupsdev.js, rather than popups.js. If you want to test it, you'll have to change popups.js to popupsdev.js twice in your user javascript file. The new option is called popupNewWindows. Lupin|talk|popups 00:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Works like a charm! Thanks! (I have firefox set to do new windows as tabs, so it does exactly what I wanted.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:41, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

use of "unsourced" tag[edit]

I noticed you added the "unsourced" template to the St. George's Bay article which I created several hours ago. I'm not quite sure how to source the article, as everything I wrote is publicly available on any map of this region in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Plasma east 04:36, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I suggest you add a reference to a publicly available map of the region. Better yet would be to add a link to a credible publication or publications which corroborate your interpretation of such a map, but I'd settle for a map. Lupin|talk|popups 11:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Popup suggestion[edit]

First of all, brilliant work. A cartload of barnstars.

I was thinking... the action links are a bit visually overwhelming, especially when one is just reading the encyclopaedia and is primarily interested in the preview. The simplest thing to do is to give them a separate css class from the preview, so that they can be changed to a lighter colour. Another great thing would be if we could come up with some sensible way to make all the action links fit onto one line (as an option of course). Zocky 06:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Good idea about the CSS. I'll look into it. As for the action links on one line, I must admit I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. I currently have the following arrangement, with the second and final lines optional (for a talk page):
articleTitle ⋅ lastEdit
contribs ⋅ count ⋅ email ⋅ block
edit|new ⋅ history ⋅ un|watch ⋅ article|edit
whatLinksHere ⋅ relatedChanges ⋅ move
un|protect ⋅ un|delete
Is this what you'd like?
articleTitle ⋅ lastEdit
contribs ⋅ count ⋅ email ⋅ block
edit|new ⋅ history ⋅ un|watch ⋅ article|edit ⋅ move ⋅ un|protect ⋅ un|delete
whatLinksHere ⋅ relatedChanges 
Or did you just want all the linebreaks removed so line-wrapping is automatic? (If you turn of the maxwidth option, then they often would all fit onto one line in this case, I expect).
articleTitle ⋅ lastEdit ⋅ contribs ⋅ count ⋅ email ⋅ block ⋅ edit/new ⋅ history ⋅ un/watch ⋅ article/edit ⋅ move ⋅ un/protect ⋅ un/delete ⋅ whatLinksHere ⋅ relatedChanges
Or something else? If so, please let me know what you have in mind. Lupin|talk|popups 12:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I was thinking more along the lines of [E][L|H][T|E|+][+W|-W], i.e. making it very short. OTOH, having an option to put the links beneath the preview would probably be enough to achieve what I want (i.e. useful definitions while browsing, without being distracted by all the links, or getting rid of them). Zocky 14:01, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
OK, I think I have tackled both requests now. To try it out, switch to the development version by changing popups.js to popupsdev.js, twice, in your user javascript file. Then you can play with CSS (eg a.popupNavLink {color: #2AA}; span.popupNavLinks {color: #F00}) and also try setting popupNavLinkStyle='cryptic';. There's also the possibility of having more-or-less arbitrary user-defined formatting for the navigational links at the top - ask if you want to know the gory details. For example, you could set popupNavLinkStyle='<<mainlink>>*<<edit|shortcut=e|e>>'; for another somewhat minimalist approach.
In fact, a simpler answer to your request would have been "set popupNavLinks=false;". But that doesn't work really well in the stable version (popups.js). This has been fixed a bit in the stabledev version, so that's another option if they really get in your way. Lupin|talk|popups 22:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I looked at the source and I see that the thing is quite flexible. I played a bit and came up with an idea for the layout of popups that should do what I want without being cryptic (ignore the choice of colors, of course):

Navpopup suggestion.png

That would be the basic popup for a non-admin user hovering over a link to an article. Additional links for other cases could be put after related changes, so that the top bar always stays the same. How does it look? Zocky 01:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

That looks fantastic to me. I'll certainly take a look at doing this! Did you write some html to get that screenshot mockup? If so, please could I take a look? Lupin|talk|popups 01:23, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Nah, I faked it in MS Word. But basically it's only about dumping html in the right order and let css do its stuff. You'd need to assign classes and IDs so that things can be formatted properly. You want something like

 <div id="popup">
  <div id="popup_nav">
   <div id="popup_nav_top">
    <span id="popup_nav_top_edit">
     <a href="...">edit</a>
    <span id="popup_nav_top_history">
     <a href="...">hist</a>
     <a href="...">last</a>
    <span id="popup_nav_top_talk">
     <a href="...">talk</a>
     <a href="...">edit</a>
     <a href="...">+</a>
    <span id="popup_nav_top_move">
     <a href="...">move</a>
   <div id="popup_nav_title">
     <a href="...">title</a>
   <div id="popup_nav_info">
     1 kb, 1 wikiLink, 1 image, 1 category
   <div id="popup_nav_bottom">
     <a href="...">what links here</a>
     <a href="...">related changes</a>
  <div id="popup_content">
   <img id="popup_image"/>
   Foo bar baz

Zocky 01:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

"Error on page" message when hovering over links[edit]

Hi! I am trying your Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups with .js and .css files as given in the article.

When I hover over a link, the popup occurs correctly, but I then gat a constant "Error on page" message in my status bar at bottom left. It stays there until I hover over a new link, then the popup comes up OK, then the error message again. I'm on IE6 SP2 Windows XP Prof. Thanks! -- Sitearm | Talk 00:39, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Hm, there must be an error on the page :-) I don't have access to Windows, so I can't reproduce this myself unfortunately. Can you click on the message or some error icon to find out more detail about the error? If so, please tell me what it says. One thing I have noticed is that sometimes things get tangled in firefox (my main web browser) and errors appear in that browser. Then a reload (control-shift-R in firefox or control-F5 in IE) usually fixes the problem, which I suspect is a problem with wikipedia not sending data correctly rather than a problem in the script, but I could be wrong here. Could you try reloading with control-F5 and see if things get better? Also, sometimes there are problems with particular links and not with others. Could you see if you get the message when hovering over every link? If not, then it'd be interesting to hear which links cause the problem. Thanks for your help! Lupin|talk|popups 00:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Reloaded with <Ctrl><F5> and same result. Happens on all links that go to another page. Can't click on the status bar message. It's not a "showstopper", just "jarring". :) -- Sitearm | Talk 01:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I get the same error on IE, whenever any popup appears I get the "Error on page" message in the status bar. Double-clicking on that message produces the following details:

Line: 1
Char: 51
Error: Expected ';'
Code: 0

I got the same error and the same details on two different machines, both running IE6 SP2. You probably find this as unhelpful as I do (particularly as I couldn't find any line with 51 characters in any place that seemed relevant), but here it is for what it's worth. --Russ Blau (talk) 14:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I get the same error (Error: Expected ';') when hovering over links in IE6 on WinXP/SP2. The popup appears but with no popup menus when hovering over the popup title. The popup menus should appear because I'm not specifying any values for simplePopups and popupStructure. If I set popupStructure=menu, I still get no popup menus. If I set popupStructure=original, all the navigation links appear correctly, but I still get the above javascript error. I hope this gives you a little more info on this problem. Thanks --Bruce1ee 14:45, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I get this error too, both on XP and on Win2k machines, using IE6.0. Owen× 11:01, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Unaccounted-for icons on some popups[edit]

OK, next thing I notice are strange little pictures in some of the popups. For example, on User:Lupin a bluebell (flower) shows in the popup. On Wikipedia:Help desk, a green chameleon (lizard) shows up in the popup. They are about 60x80px in size and do not appear on the actual page when opened. Is this deliberate from your program, or something from the pages? It occurs on some but not all pages.

P.S. On article pages that do have pictures, such as Wikipedia:Image sleuthing, the icon (correctly) matches the first picture in the article. -- Sitearm | Talk 03:01, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The image is the first image that the popup script finds in the wikitext of the page. The script isn't so bright, so on User:Lupin it doesn't notice that the image of the flower is actually in an HTML comment, so isn't displayed on the article. On Wikipedia:Help desk, it's doing what I intended it to do though: it's got the first image on the page, which is Image:GreenAnole.jpg. So sometimes it gets it wrong, but it seems OK most of the time unless you set out to trick it, like I did on my user page. Lupin|talk|popups 03:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Ahh... many thanks! -- Sitearm | Talk 23:48, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Potential influence of popups on content and ideas for the future[edit]

I've noticed a thing about the popups that has great potential to help improve Wikipedia's content, once they come into widespread use. The fact that the popup shows a part of the linked page, opens up the question of what we put in that part, thus forcing some standardization of articles. In what form will they standardize depends directly on how the popup content is chosen, so it should be given some thought.

Here are some of my ideas about how it should work (in an ideal world where everything programs itself :P). Some of these would probably work best if mediawiki helped serve them.

Articles and user pages
  • I think you should concentrate on the idea of displaying the first paragraph. I'm not sure if it's worth to bother with sentences - they're a pain to detect, and it's not like "x sentences" means much - they vary hugely in length. If the first paragraph is too long it should be cut off at word boundary and followed by an ellipsis that links to the article. The length limit should be set reasonably high - if we want popups to encourage quality intros, ellipsis should be an exception rather than the rule.
  • Displaying the first image in the popup should help standardize the widespread practice of putting a right-flushed picture in the intro. Maybe the image should be displayed only if it is in the intro. Images shown later in the article may not be the proper ones to show in the popup.
  • It's a brilliant idea to look into comments for images - this allows us to have custom images for popups. Maybe there should be a stricted syntax for specifying those.
Talk pages
  • As it is, the first lines of a talk page are usually useless. It would be great if for talk: links, the popup showed the last few lines of the history instead.
  • Another option is to show the top of the talk page (which sometimes includes useful tips) only if there's any text before the first heading, followed by some of the history.
  • The popup should display the template's source.
Links to diffs
  • The popup should display (the beginning of) the diff.

I haven't looked at the javascript much apart from the layout bits. Would getting different bits of info for different links like this require major changes in the implementation? Zocky 11:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing these ideas! At the moment, the javascript is probably not flexible enough to make these changes immediately, but I hope to change that. A couple of quick comments:
  • I don't like the idea of introducing new image syntax to wikipedia unless popups are included for everyone (which I don't think should happen either). They're really just a hack at the moment.
  • I've tried to reduce server load and improve respoensiveness by only grabbing the source of articles (with &action=raw) and never looking at HTML. This means that I could do the templates thing and probably restrict to images appearing at the top (a little harder), but the others (displaying diffs, history) are trickier as things stand.
  • If and when I implement some of these, it's going to involved yet more configuration variables which the vast majority of users never set, since the manual is a bit daunting. Sets of config options which let you set an overall feel to the popups are needed, and some clever UI for making them trivial to select. Lupin|talk|popups 13:34, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
I was guessing that getting raw data is how you did it. In that case, the above would be complicated. But it may be worth investigating the possibility of updating the mediawiki php to serve popup content, maybe with "action=popup" or something. The way it works it shouldn't really be too hard.
The other thing, user settings: One thing you could do is make the javascript include a page like User:Foo/popupsettings.js, which you could than overwrite from javascript with prepared config sets, and put a drop-down menu for those somewhere. Maybe make the preferences link drop a menu of useful settings, both for popups and user preferences.
BTW, wouldn't it be great if you could do things like {{tools/popups|width=120|skin=mypopupskin}} on .js pages? Zocky 21:18, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, action=popup would be nice. I don't know php so it'd be a challenge to code though... maybe I can make a skin selection UI appear when you press a certain key. Since I'm short on space I don't want it to be visible all the time. Ideally the user would never have to touch javascript once the original installation was complete; if I use cookies to store the config data then this should be doable. Lupin|talk|popups 21:31, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]

Lupin supporting Lord Voldemort? Never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your kind words concerning my RfA. Although it seems this is headed the way of "no censensus", I hope you will think about supporting me again in a few months. Thanks my friend. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 13:36, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Protection of popups.js page[edit]

I've edit-protected your excellent popups.js page, as a significant number of users seem to be using it. Rationale: If vandals were to edit the .js page, this would open users running it to a variety of potential abuses. I think you're a sysop, so you shouldn't have any problem continuing to edit it. However, if you're not, just send me a message, and I'll try to work something out. -- Karada 17:11, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I think this is not necessary, as only sysops can edit other peoples' javascript files anyway, and they still can edit after protection. I think I'll remove the protection for this reason unless there's a compelling reason to keep it that I'm not aware of. Lupin|talk|popups 20:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Popups and Other Wikis[edit]

I just installed your script and it looks great. I am very impressed. As a Turkish Wikipedian I tried in Turkish Wikipedia and works ok. But. The name of the user space is not "User:" in tr Wikipedia and your script searches for string "User:" to understand what the type of page is. As a result in tr wikipedia your script thinks all pages are 0 namespace ie. article and doesnt show special attributes if you hover on a user link. So is it possible to define namespace variables in users monobook.js first and pass this variables to yoor main script. So your main script will only use this variable names instead hard wired "User:" string or any other this kind. So each wikipedian from other wikis can edit his namespace names in monobook.js and it will work. Of course it should support Unicode. Thanks again for this great script. --Dbl2010talk 01:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Making the script work on non-english wikis is part of my plan - hopefully I'll get around to this before too long. Lupin|talk|popups 13:11, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
The development version seems to be working well on - could you test it on the turkish site? The interface is not translated (and there's no way to do this at the moment) but I think I have the namespaces sorted out. To install it, you'll need this in your javascript file:
// [[Kullanıcı:Lupin/popups.js]]

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="' 
             + '' 
             + '&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>');
Lupin|talk|popups 19:18, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks good now and nice improvements on development version. Thanks. I will keep testing. --Dbl2010talk 06:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Pop ups[edit]

Hi Lupin, thanks for the tips. Everything went on smoothly; no glitches found. See you around. →Journalist >>talk<< 15:42, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Template:RfA-nom color[edit]

I sort of picked the color at random - wanted it to pop out, tho. :-D -- BD2412 talk 15:49, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

glitch(?) in the popups[edit]

I have only accidently stumbled upon the popups a few days ago, and it shall be a day I bless for the rest of my wiki life. but i seem to be having a few problems.

Okay, before I start, I have literally no idea of what I am talking about, so please excuse any incorrect names ect. Also, sorry if my complete noobishness makes your head explode with confusion (that tends to happen a lot to me)

I followed the instructions on setting it up and the popups were perfect for a while, but soon i lost the edit,hist,count ect options from the popups. I ignored it thinking that something may just be being fiddled with, but at least a day later and it has not rectified itself. Also, the colour scheme has gone all-to-whack and reverted itself back to orange. I have checked my history pages and nothing has been tampered with. Could you help? thanks Tekana (O.o) Talk 18:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry... that's me, I changed the script. It should be the case that you can now roll your mouse over the title of the article that appears in the popup and a menu of links should appear. If you don't like this, you can get back something close to the old style by adding the line
to your monobook.js file. Since the white-on-white default is confusing and hard to see, I put a default stylesheet in which is why you're seeing the orangeness. It should be possible to override that in your monobook.css. Try putting this in:
table.popupBorderTable { background: #990066 !important /* purple */ }
table.popupTable { background: #FF99FF !important /* purple*/ }
font.popupFont { font-family: serif !important; color: #990099 !important; font-size: medium !important}
By the way, the popups would probably look much better without that third line - that was just a silly example I put in. Lupin|talk|popups 19:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

My RfA![edit]

My dear Lupin, I simply wanted to drop by now that my RfA is closed to give you a big THANK YOU! for your kind support. Your trust in me and your consideration against editcountitis, when the matter of my relatively few edits was being put against me by a few people, gave me strength and cheered me up a lot. You'll always have a friend in me. Hugs! Smiley.png Shauri Yes babe? 20:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Possible bug with popups tool[edit]

Hiya Lupin, I haven't congratulated you on your excellent popup script, so I'll do that now (it's fantastic), and report a bug at the same time - I don't think it recognises interwiki links to the Scots Wikipedia (sco: links) as being interwiki links. Cheers, Talrias (t | e | c) 08:06, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

You mean it doesn't filter them when making previews? If so then that's a bug... if not, how is this bug manifested? Lupin|talk|popups 11:53, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The first one. See for example User:Talrias/Test subpage. Talrias (t | e | c) 13:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Customised script[edit]

I was wondering if I could get a customised script as follows:

On user pages

(Following links in the "toolbox" on the left column)

  • Kate's tool link for user
  • User's log
  • Block user
  • Unblock user
On general pages
  • "Purge" ie. purge server cache.
This should be a tab alongside the "watch" tab on the top of the page.

If you could make it I would be thrilled. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:50, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Here ya go. Lupin|talk|popups 12:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, but we seem to have a bug. Only the "purge" tab has appeared, the others are not present. (Just incase you need to know I use Opera 8 for Win). =Nichalp «Talk»= 13:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Side links still not being displayed. :( =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:34, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
They appear in firefox though. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:37, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I would be very surprised if this is not a cache issue. Try loading the page
in Opera, and compare it to what you get in Firefox. My guess is that the string wpUserNamespace, which was the source of the bug I fixed this morning appears in Opera but doesn't appear in Firefox. Try hitting reload until it disappears in Opera if that's correct :-) Lupin|talk|popups 20:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


Lupin, I noticed that you changed your popup tool recently. Unless I'm missing something, there doesn't seem to be a "block" link anymore for users. Am I missing something, or was that left out? Many thanks. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 21:30, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I don't see "contribs" or "count" for users any more. What's going on? Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 21:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
The interface has changed, perhaps for the worse. See Wikipedia_talk:Tools/Navigation_popups for an explanation. Lupin|talk|popups 22:53, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I've made a comment at Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups. By the way, did you see the Signpost article about your popup links that I wrote a week or two ago? Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 23:23, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I hadn't run across the signpost article - thanks for the publicity! Lupin|talk|popups 11:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


Thank you for the information about the popups. I've already set it up and wanted to tell you that I think it's danged spiffy! -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:48, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

firefox timeout window thingy[edit]

your javascript popup thingy makes firefox bring up the "script is running slowly dialog"... is there a long-running loop or something? suggest a event-driven model instead --BG 22:00, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe that this is because of this bug in some beta versions of firefox. Please upgrade to the latest version and try again. Lupin|talk|popups 11:51, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll try that --BG 22:00, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Cooper Creek reference[edit]

Hi. You added the {{unsourced}} template to Cooper's Creek. I've checked the Geoscience Australia website, changed the name of the article to Cooper Creek and added the coordinates which links to a page with links to many maps. Does this meet yor "sourcing" requirement? The "official" coordinates are where it flows into Lake Eyre. Zoom Multimap out to 1:4000000 to see the cartographic label. Cheers. --Scott Davis Talk 13:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Can you cite your sources for "most notable and yet least visited" (sounds like POV), and maybe also "It was along Cooper Creek that the explorers Burke and Wills met their deaths"? --BG 22:00, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
There appears to be a link to a source for maps, as you say, but that still leaves many assertions in the article which are not sourced in any way. BG has pointed out a couple of examples, and I agree that these need sourcing. I think I'd also find it hard to fact-check the sentences
It takes almost a year for water to reach Lake Eyre from the headwaters. In most years, none does: it is absorbed into the earth, goes to fill channels and the many permanent waterholes, or simply evaporates.
...based on maps alone. Lupin|talk|popups 22:22, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree that phrase sounds POV (I didn't write it). It's probably true - most people have heard of it, but I don't know whether I know anybody who's seen it - especially not in flood. I'll see if I can find a reference about flows. The Burke and Wills bit it is described in that article. --Scott Davis Talk 13:05, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

In this instance, I'm not too concerned about it being POV or not. What bothers me is that there's no way to check whether it's accurate or whether someone made it up, or whether it's someone's original research. Also, using other wikipedia articles as implicit references is suboptimal as it means that in order to check an article for accuracy I have to delve into each article linked from it, and these may or may not have references which back up the specific assertion I want to check. We should let each article stand alone with its own references in order that it may be properly verified. Lupin|talk|popups 17:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

League/league system[edit]

I don't know if you were going through systematically and looking to fix change any sports-related links to league to link to league system, but I noticed the one at official scorer. Unfortunately the league system article is totally inadequate, so I created a sports league page, since a sports league is different from a league system. So if you're going to make any more changes to links to league that should be disambiguated, feel free to link them to sports league instead.Kevin M Marshall 22:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Last modified date in popups[edit]

Hi Lupin. Thanks for the popup script. I've enhanced the September 25 version to optionally include the last modified date with the text preview. This is done by retrieving the Last-Modified HTTP response header with Downloader.http.getResponseHeader and storing it with the cached page entries. In raw download mode, this header is set by the MediaWiki software to the last modification date of the article content.

Please have a look at this diff. If you want, I will try to integrate these changes with the October 3 version of the popups.js script. Mike Dillon 04:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Excellent, many thanks for this! I've put something based on your code in popupsdev.js, the development version. I decided to show the "age" of the page rather than the date, as the date can be rather lengthy and I think that most of the time it's the time that's elapsed since the page was edited that's of interest. Lupin|talk|popups 13:58, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome. I hope the other popups.js users appreciate it. I've found it helpful. Mike Dillon 15:20, 6 October 2005 (UTC)



Hey, the script is finally working in Opera. :) I wonder why it took so long to kick in? Thanks for the effort and time invested. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:45, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Good, glad to hear it. I think that the reason is that opera secretly caches more than it should. Lupin|talk|popups 15:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Anthony Jackson Image[edit]

Just wondered why you removed an uncopyrighted image from Anthony Jackson -Mjgw

Must have been a mistake. Sorry! Lupin|talk|popups 23:03, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


Is it possible, using javascript, to create Source Provenance and Temporal Provenance, as detailed in the sections under Wikipedia:Provenance#Proposals_for_provenance? If so, might you consider undertaking this task? It would probably be the next big thing (besides navigational popups, of course). — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-7 02:17

Welcome back! I have to admit that I don't really understand those proposals or what good they'd be. Still from what I can make out, this would be a job that would involve collecting lots of diffs and splurging them together into an unholy mess. If that's what's desired, then this is probably best done server-side without javascript, as accessing lots of pages to compare or mix them up together would be slow to do client-side. Lupin|talk|popups 02:31, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
That's what I figured. I think the point to all of this is to catch sneaky vandalism that was added a long while ago to an article that has since been edited numerous times with reverting the vandalism. At least, that would be the point of the source provenance. I think the temporal provenance would be used just to get an idea of what the actively edited parts of an article are. The source provenance would definitely be useful. I think a better tool, though, would be to require users to view the last edit of an article when submitting a new edit. Thus, everyone becomes a member of RC patrol, and much more vandalism will be caught. Is this something that you know how to add in? — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-7 11:41
Adding a copy of previous revisions to any given pages should in principle be doable using livepreview and a bit of javascript. On the other hand, livepreview is not perfect, so vandals would fine a way to exploit its flaws if we did this. Doing it server-side would be so much more reliable.
I've just worked out that you probably mean "view the diff between the last edit and the edit preceding it when submitting a new edit" rather than "view the previous revision when submitting a new edit". Again, possible, but I think best done server-side, this time because generating diffs is non-trivial programmatically, and it would be best to utilize the existing code in mediawiki rather than cobbling something together from scratch. I have to say that this would need a cunning interface if it wasn't going to be mighty confusing for the user too IMO. Lupin|talk|popups 12:17, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Little js help?[edit]

I'm sorry to bother you, but you're the only javascript guru I know. This is a simple request, as I don't know much javascript, I took the "auto afd" script that helps to automate the process of sending an entry to AFD and then modified so it would help to automate the afd closing. So I started with the del version. I think (I think) I got it right, but I can't get the link with the tab at top to show up, could you give a quick look at User:Drini/monobook.js and tell me what went wrong? I didn't delete anthing, just added, but now not even the tab at top for "Afd" is showing up anymore. Maybe the problem is with the even listeners, but I really don't know what's going on. -- (drini|) 05:09, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Hm, a guru? That's going a bit far, as anyone who actually knows how to write good clean code will tell you after looking at the godawful mess that popups.js is becoming :-)

Using emacs, c-mode and M-x indent-region, I found an error in your code: the braces don't match. I think the problem is that this is invalid:

if (stuff) 

and should be one of these instead:

if (stuff) 


if (stuff) 

My suggestion what you probably want for that function is

function autocloseafd()
  if (document.title.indexOf('Editing ') == 0)
      var action = '';
      var target = '';
      if (
          var l ='&');
          for (var i = 0; i < l.length; ++i)
              var eq = l[i].indexOf('=');
              var name = l[i].substring(0, eq);
              if (name == 'fakeaction')
                action = l[i].substring(eq + 1);
              else if (name == 'faketarget')
                target = unescape(l[i].substring(eq + 1)).replace(/_/g, ' ');

      if (action == 'closeafddel')
          document.editform.wpTextbox1.value = 'deleted per [[' + 'Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/' + target + ']]';
          document.editform.wpSummary.value = 'deleted per [[' + 'Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/' + target + ']]';
        document.editform.wpTextbox1.value += '===[[' + target + ']]===\n' +
          'Reason for nomination. ~~' + '~~\n*\n*\n*\n';
    add_link('javascript:closeafd()', 'c/afd');
Well, thanks a lot. Now everything is workign again, and the little tab with c/afd shows up. The only strange thing is it shows up when viewing a page, not when editing it. I tried to move the add_link() line outside the if scope, but then it all broke again. -- (drini|) 14:03, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Popup feed back[edit]

Lupin, I'm finding your popups a great help with admin tasks - using them all the time. Just one comment, the one think I find difficult is knowning when an editor has already been blocked. Would it be possible to have a quick link to the blocklog for a user? Thanks. --Doc (?) 11:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I've already done this in the dev version in fact. Once I satisfy myself that it probably won't go on the rampage, I'll overwrite the "stable" version with that. You can try it yourself if you like. Lupin|talk|popups 12:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Now using - brilliant vandal fighting possibilities - I'll let you know if I find any bugs! Thanks. --Doc (?) 12:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Bug: William "Grumble" Jones[edit]

When I use your popups "edit" button on William "Grumble" Jones in the "What link here" for American, it opens up William, and not even in the edit window. --Commander Keane 09:18, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me about this bug! It should now be fixed. Lupin|talk|popups 17:18, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Fantastic! The ability to go straight to editing a page using your popups has been a revolution when I'm link repairing. Thank you so much.--Commander Keane 17:28, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Popup question[edit]

I just changed my settings to return the missing editing menus I had in my popups following the changes to the script and fixed a mistake in my own style sheet so the admin links show too. However, I've noticed the admin links appear under the page title and the others appear above it. I'd like both menus to be below the page title. Can you change it or make it an option? Please answer on my talk. - Mgm|(talk) 20:07, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

You mean you'd like to do away completely with the separate user menu and have all the links in one long menu? This would not be very hard to do, so please let me know whether or not I've understood what you want. Lupin|talk|popups 23:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I want all menu links to go under the title of the page. The regular links on one line, the admin links on the next. - Mgm|(talk) 04:52, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
A popup with menu in firefox/linux
I think we're talking slightly at cross-purposes here, since for me (firefox on linux) the links appear in a menu on several lines. Doesn't this work for you? Please upload a screenshot so that I can see how things look from your end. Lupin|talk|popups 15:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Also, I tried disambiguating some links pointing to Mummification using the popups, but only got the choice to use the link Mummy when it should also offer me the option Mummification (bondage). Why isn't that option showing up in the popup? - Mgm|(talk) 22:22, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Odd, I get the choice between Mummification (BDSM), bondage, mummy, preservation. Which browser are you using? I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, but you shouldn't expect "Mummification (bondage)" to appear if the link on the disambig page is piped to give it a different name to its target. Only the real targets of links on the disambig page should appear. Lupin|talk|popups 23:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I was referring to the Mummification (BDSM) link, I changed that one since mummification (bondage) redirected to that. I only get Mummy as an option when I try to dab pages in IE 6 on Windows 98. - Mgm|(talk) 04:52, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Strange. I don't have access to windows, so it's hard for me to pinpoint the problem, unfortunately. You could see if firefox exposes the same bug or not. Lupin|talk|popups 15:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Popup to my userpage on a Windows 98 system with IE 6
  • Here's the screenshot. I'm using the "fancy" setting in one of the customizable settings. You can see the rest of my settings at User:MacGyverMagic/monobook.js. Hope this helps. - Mgm|(talk) 16:43, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Yes, thanks. I've made a new possibility for the popupStructure variable, 'fancy2'. You can try it out in the dev version. Lupin|talk|popups 18:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I had to cut out my old code, but the dev seems to be working. How long does dev code generally take to be implemented?
    • Lately, about a week if nothing goes wrong. Lupin|talk|popups 19:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Pop-up tool suggestion - fixing redirects[edit]

Hi Lupin. Spotted the link to your fantastic tool this morning on my watchlist where someone had used it for a dab fix. It's great - thanks for all your work with this! Just one suggestion (couldn't see any other ref to this particular suggestion on your talk page - apologies if I'm duplicating a request...). If you use it to auto dab, the edit summary includes a link to the tool (which, as I mentioned, is how I found out about it). However, if you use it to auto-fix a redirect, the edit summary doesn't automatically include a link. Could a link be added? Unfortunately I wouldn't have the first clue how to go about implementing something like this... Regards, CLW 07:54, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Wow, people asking me to push the tool harder! Since you've asked for it, I'll put this into the development version which should work its way into regular use once it's been tested a bit. Lupin|talk|popups 15:16, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

disable popup nav?[edit]

I'm using Safari on OSX and the navigation popup is crashing Safari quite regularly, so I would like to turn them off. I've deleted my User:Lethe/cologneblue.js, but I'm still getting the popups. The suggestion at the page to refresh my cache by pressing shift-command-R does not appear to work (actually, it doesn't appear to do anything). Can you help? thanks -Lethe | Talk 19:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

What's probably happening is that things are getting cached by either your browser or a wikipedia server when they should not be. Here's my suggestion based on similar experiences with Opera. Try loading this url in Safari:
This is the url your browser uses to get your user javascript file, I think. Hit refresh/empty your cache/do a rain dance until this reflects what you think it should (ie until it comes up blank). Then restart your browser and try again. Repeat until you start getting the desired results consistently. Then the popups should be banished. Lupin|talk|popups 19:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


Your tarball of academic shields has come in handy, I'm posting just to let you know of shields I've constructed using your images-- University of New Zealand, University of Otago and Victoria University of Wellington (all GFDL of course).

I plan on doing more, many thanks for the source images.

DiamondVertex 10:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

New maps please![edit]

Could you create some new GB 'dotty maps' for the following places please? Many thanks.

Little Warley, Essex: 51.677461° 0.373007°

Ingrave, Essex: 51.602483° 0.344541°

West Horndon, Essex: 51.567471° 0.341296°

Stondon Massey, Essex: 51.679967° 0.292119°

East Horndon, Essex: 51.574341° 0.357527°

Great Warley, Essex: 51.592812° 0.287727°

Kelvedon Hatch, Essex: 51.668624° 0.274189°

Navestock, Essex: 51.651831° 0.25889°

Herongate, Essex: 51.59234° 0.357015°

Doddinghurst, Essex: 51.66354° 0.304306°

Blackmore, Essex: 51.69021° 0.320131°

Childerditch, Essex: 51.583089° 0.324775°

Pilgrims Hatch, Essex: 51.635912° 0.291342°

Hutton, Essex: 51.630104° 0.357527°

Warley, Essex: 51.606962° 0.299994°

Ingatestone, Essex: 51.670127° 0.379856°

Leigh-On-Sea, Essex: 51.541881° 0.655872°

Abridge, Essex: 51.651722° 0.120084°

Great Wakering, Essex: 51.551622° 0.816589°

Writtle, Essex: 51.730213° 0.432257°

Sturmer, Essex: 52.067421° 0.478273°

Terling, Essex: 51.80566° 0.563992°

Canvey Island, Essex: 51.516604° 0.579435°

Thundersley, Essex: 51.568357° 0.59824°

Rowhedge, Essex: 51.856932° 0.947476°

Rayne, Essex: 51.876888° 0.514278°

Layer de la Haye, Essex: 51.842952° 0.857982°

Thorpe-le-Soken, Essex: 51.856703° 1.163904°

Takeley, Essex: 51.867501° 0.26823°

Fryerning, Essex: 51.677461° 0.373007°


Coed-y-Brenin 52.829353° -3.907523°

Ta. Mauls

Uploading now... enjoy. You can look here for the filenames. Lupin|talk|popups 02:55, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

pop-up tool... yet another suggestion[edit]

what about endnotes? is there some way we can get the note instead of the first lines of the article when we hover on those? No urge, that would be nice, that's all...

Thanks, Jules LT 03:18, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Do you know where all the possible endnote templates are listed? I'd need that to implement this. Lupin|talk|popups 03:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

popup tool[edit]

Hi Lupin, just dropping you a quick note to say a HUGE THANKS for your fantastic js work with this tool. How did I ever manage without it? It is absolutely brilliant and cuts out several page clicks of navigation for some tasks.

I have one question though, are there any other undocumented parameters that can affect the interface and mode of operation such as:

popupAdminLinks = true/false;
simplePopups = true/false;

Thanks in advance. 10:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, glad you find it useful! There are several options documented at WP:POP; others may be found by playing with popupLiveOptions=true; and/or looking at the source (look for "newOption"). Lupin|talk|popups 22:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, checking them out as we speak =:-) 08:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Search feature[edit]

I haven't checked, but does your popup have a search feature that will search for the link text? This would really speed up work for the Wikipedia:Missing articles folks. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-18 04:32

No, but that's a lovely idea. I could also do a global wikipedia search link while I'm at it... Lupin|talk|popups 12:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
This is now in the dev version in the menus only. Lupin|talk|popups 13:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I tried finding an appropriate HTML character that looked like a magnifying glass, but nope... — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-18 13:41

A quirk[edit]

Hi again. I must say that after initial doubts I have warmed up to the idea of a menu for actions. However, the way it's implemented now, it makes it hard to get to the links in the preview, because the menu drops once you move the mouse over the title. The easiest way to remedy this would be to add a link named "actions" and display it just like the "user" link is now displayed for user subpages. That way the menu would drop only when the user wanted it to drop.

An alternative strategy might be to align the dropped menu to the right, so that it disapears if the user only passes over the title with the mouse (as this will usually happen near the left border of the preview). Zocky 16:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

You're right, this has been irritating me too, so thanks for prompting me to do this! Please try the dev version with popupActionsMenu=true;. This feels more consistent with the user menu and makes the previews easier to use as you say, so I may make this default to true. Lupin|talk|popups 22:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Very nice, tnanks. Another thingy: It would be nice if it was:
Frogs • actions • redirects to:
Frog • actions
or even
Frogs • actions • redirects to:
Frog • actions
...if you know what I mean. Zocky 12:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I know what you mean. This isn't quite as easy to do as the other stuff, but I'll certainly think about it. Lupin|talk|popups 13:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Hermione1980's RfA[edit]

Thank you for your support on my RfA; I really appreciate it! I will do my best to live up to the trust you've shown in me. Thanks, Hermione1980 23:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Pop up tool and categories[edit]

I just installed the pop-up navigation tool and it reads 0 categories for every page I have tried previewing. I'm running Mozilla 1.0.7 and Windows 2000. The problem also happens when I run IE. Just to let you know about the bug.--Bkwillwm 16:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

You're right! Thanks - there was a silly typo in the code. This should be fixed in the dev version. Lupin|talk|popups 17:22, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Fix this redirect[edit]

Lupin -- the popups are a great tool! Thanks for doing this. One minor suggestion, for fixing double-redirects. Suppose "[[Foo]]" is a redirect to "[[Bar]]" and "[[Bar]]" is a redirect to "[[Baz]]". If I am on the [[Foo]] page and use the pop-up to fix the redirect, it wants to change #REDIRECT [[Bar]] to #REDIRECT [[Baz|Bar]]. The |Bar part isn't necessary in this context and might be confusing to anyone else who is tracing redirects. --Russ Blau (talk) 13:36, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, good idea. That's going onto my todo list... Lupin|talk|popups 22:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Popups not working for me[edit]

My mouth is watering at the prospect of getting your popup tool, but for some reason it won't work for me. I'm using Safari on Mac OSX on an iBook. Do you have any idea what the problem might be? RMoloney 18:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Never mind - it was just taking its time to start working. RMoloney 18:22, 20 October 2005 (UTC)


Lupin, thanks for your support on my RFA. I very much appreciate it. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. See you around! thames 18:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Also thanks for the nice work separating out the 404 errors in Wikipedia:Dead external links. Should be handy! -- Marumari 19:43, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Popups question[edit]

I, Eloquence, hereby award you a technology barnstar for your excellent Wikipedia popup script. Popups have never been more useful!

Would it be feasible to auto-update the popup window when you hover over links inside the pop-up? This would make it feasible to navigate through Wikipedia without ever clicking a link. Oh, and of course you deserve a barnstar for this fantastic tool.--Eloquence* 21:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the idea and the barnstar! It's a nice idea... I'll think about doing this. A more intuitive UI (IMO) would be to have separate popups appearing over the existing popup, but this requires fundamental changes to the code to make it more modular. I am reworking the code from scratch with stuff like this in mind, so this may eventually materialise! (Eventually being the operative word here as I'm going very slowly). Lupin|talk|popups 22:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Good luck, refactoring can be a pain. I'm not sure it's more or less intuitive to have popups upon popups. In effect, your popup system is kind of a "mini-browser", so I think some of the same considerations apply as in traditional browser UIs. Imagine your browser would open every link in a new window, for example. But it's hard to tell without testing it. My guess is that, if the popup was refilled using the same time delay as used for the initial popup, and only the links in the "content area" (below the title and menu) would be active in this way, it would be reasonably intuitive. In fact, I sort of expected it to already work this way ;-).--Eloquence* 23:36, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Lupin, I am testing the Dev version right now. This was a question I was going to ask, but Eloquence beat me to it. I tend to agree that a new popup (with focus) over the existing popup would be more intuitive. This could then be lost when the mouse moves back over the existing popup to allow a new link to be previewed. Sounds like a lot of work, but I am no JS guru. Multiple cascading popups would in theory be possible. I like the new dev version BTW, very clean, and the Options facility is fantastic. Keep up the good work. 11:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


The problem with using monobook.js is that I absolutely hate monobook. If you have the popup for classic, that'd be better. you? DS 00:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

    • Ah, never mind, I see now. Thank you for your suggestions; I plan to implement them later on. Again, thanks. DS 00:47, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


I added that thing, and that thing is so far above me that I barely comprehend what it did.(It added the move tag, right?) Man, is there anyplace where someone who knows little to nothing about Java and CSS can learn this stuff? Even my HTML experience is fairly minimal. Karmafist 02:54, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understnad your question. Lupin|talk|popups 11:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)