User talk:Izkala

Precious

"put more emphasis on her achievement"
Thank you for quality articles such as Zourafa, for solving template questions yourself or ask at the village pump, for helping the herculean task to merge templates, for joining the cabal of the outcasts although being warned, for supporting my dangerous dreams about amnesty, for your (insufferable hopeless) quest for justice, for a subtle change to a DYK hook "to put more emphasis on her achievement", - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:06, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Did you know that your hook suggestion is on the Main page now? Pictured ;) - We could also call it a demonstration of {{Classical works row}}, - thank you! - We should probably write a better docu. Thoughts? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

See {{Parameters}} to help you with documentation. Alakzi (talk) 22:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I have a house full of dear guests, no time ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

ps: I could imagine to link from the first mention of symphonies to the first symphony in the table, etc, how? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

See {{Anchor}}. Place the anchor in the leftmost cell of the first row, and link to it with [[#anchor_name|symphonies]]. Alakzi (talk) 22:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

will do, thank you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

works nicely, but I wonder why the display is always a little above, - just curious. - I would like to have the same links in the infobox but am afraid someone will say "no navigation from an infobox",- thoughts, watchers?

You need to place the anchor inside the template, or it'll get shoved in the last cell of the preceding row. I don't think infobox links would bother anybody here; people only object to infobox links when they carry no intrinsic value. Alakzi (talk) 23:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I tried the links, but am too tired to get the anchors in the templates. Help welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Simply move the anchor to the end of the "title" field. Or you could wait until Friday, and I'll do it for you. Alakzi (talk) 23:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Done, works nicely for most, see? - I wonder why for anchor "vocal" it shows the bottom of the row? (Or does it always, just the others are shoreter?) - Should I do the same anchor thing for {{Classical discography row}}, instead of |"|id? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:11, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Appears to be the same for all of them. Try moving the anchors to the front. No, |id= is better; I just thought I'd save you the template editing. Alakzi (talk) 07:29, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Will do that later, off for a hike, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:15, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Copying from template to template done, + hike from Lorch was lovely, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Must've been quite a view. Many moons ago, I went on a school trip to the Rhine valley in Hesse and Nordrhein-Westfalen, though we didn't stop at Lorch. Alakzi (talk) 19:48, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Gorgeous Rhine Gorge ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Nice to see you signature again! Remember dedication of the confused soul, a GA now? It's up for DYK, review needed to make an appearance on Sunday possible ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for that model of a review! - What do you think of limiting infobox service there and here? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't really know enough about Bach's cantatas or the genre or music in general to be able to offer a worthwhile opinion. Alakzi (talk) 12:41, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

You don't need knowledge of music to have an opinion on a removal of information in the infobox of a featured article which has been on the Main page on February. If you look at this list you see that scorings are quite different, and worthy to be shown, as was decided when the infobox was created. Even if a scoring is nothing exceptional, a link from "Instrumental" to the Baroque instruments is a reason to have it. - Contemplating to have "id" for the rows in that list and redirect to them rather to stub articles in some cases, such as BWV xyz = List of Bach cantatas#xyz. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Uum, would it not make sense to redirect the stubs then? Alakzi (talk) 13:04, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

History, condensed: we have several very different articles on the around 200 Bach cantatas. Some were started as early as Wikipedia. Some were started by me. Some were started by Dr. Blofeld who some day had the desire to complete the navbox, including stubs. Some were started by Nikkimaria. Some are red links. Some were expanded to FA and GA. - Looking at a stub such as Erwählte Pleißenstadt, BWV 216a: a link to the respective row in the list might provide more context with the others than the single article. I would still keep the article, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, but we might have some trouble reliably locating the anchors to replace them when the articles are eventually fleshed out. Though unconventional, maybe we could have a shortcut point to the list article. Alakzi (talk) 14:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

What is that please, a shortcut point? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Using the catalogue number, e.g. BWV 216a should point to the list, rather than the stub. Alakzi (talk) 15:23, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Seems what I tried to say, - we should do it at least for the red links, to ease creation, - what do you think? And what qualifies for "rather the list"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

The parameters were discussed at length, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:02, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

It's best brought up on the template talk page then; I'd not realised we've got an infobox for Bach. Alakzi (talk) 14:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

We had Bach first, actually, my first collaboration with Andy, and my first interest in an infobox design. (There was musical composition, but nothing substantial.) As at that time I was the only one dealing with Bach, I was free up to a certain point. Mind the date, well before an arb case, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Now the wish came up to have a footnote explaining what BWV means. Could that be done somehow automatically for articles which have BWV in the title? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

It could be done. Is that what's been decided? Alakzi (talk) 22:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I read the discussion as if it was the best option, - please check, I often don't get things. I prefer it by far to the ugly bold link. It had been in BWV 22, demanded at FAC time as I now remember. I copied it to the other FAs (172, 165) and two GAs (35 and 29), then arrived at this question, - too lazy to copy to hundreds. If people really need an explanation of BWV although it's linked in the infobox I think this may be a method. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:47, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll do it tomorrow, I suppose, unless somebody can come up with a better idea. And unless I've been blocked again by that time. Alakzi (talk) 23:05, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea, suggested it on BWV 35 talk and received no protest. People who don't like it could easily revert, + I wrote most of the articles in question, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Nice to see the result on my watchlist! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Five errors isn't too bad, I guess. Let me know if anything else crops up. Alakzi (talk) 22:09, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you! - I would like to be able to have a tool to ease the transition from the list of recordings to templated, which I just did for BWV 17. Like have a master with all the conductors, - only few things change regularly: title, soloists, years, - other items occasionally. Thoughts welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:19, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

• Next question: in my comment, there's a long piped link, - why doesn't it go to the proper place? At least it on my display, it first goes there, but after the page is fully loaded, somewhere below.? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
  • It's because of the ArbCom collapsible sidebar; it collapses after you've jumped to the section, effectively pushing the page down. Alakzi (talk) 08:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

You deserve another gem for completing the Wagner stage works, and another for removing all fixed-sized images from opera infoboxes, - but I give only one ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

You deserve another gem for defending me when I was not there, - discussion was mercifully closed --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

You've also missed out on the repeat rejection of my template editor user right request. A jury of two administrators adjudicated that I do not morally qualify. Alakzi (talk) 17:24, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

What did you expect as a member of the outcasts? Moral? Justice? I adopted the new userbox, and one member joined because of it ;). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:08, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I expected that they'd piss me off, which is what happened. Alakzi (talk) 20:40, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Apology

@Cassianto: Some time ago, I asked for you to be blocked over a disagreement we had at Laurence Olivier. I'm sorry; I'd violated my own principles. Alakzi (talk) 15:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

	No Hard Feelings
	No Problem Alakzi, I'm not a grudge bearer. I hope to see you back soon. CassiantoTalk 19:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Template questions

I went over my talk, to gratefully remove you from those who have given up, and saw two questions:

• How would I change the size of an image in an infobox without using (the unwanted) "fixed size" (example)?
• How can {{infobox}} take an image (example)? I see that the template doc requests to code it as in an article. Should we request parameters instead. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
• ps: especially as it seems not to work, tried my talk, - put the image to the top for now
• next: some lists of movements (example) not yet transformed to {{Classical movement row}} distinguish the winds in brass and wood. Easy solution: forget about that, simply combine the two and explain the difference in the text. I really don't know if the added complexity of having to supply sometimes two columns, with variable headers, is worth trying.

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

{{Infobox person}} hasn't got a parameter which maps to upright, so you'd have to use the file inclusion syntax, e.g. |image=[[File:Maria Radner.jpg|frameless|upright=0.7]]. You could request that a parameter be added to the infobox. (It might've made sense to build Module:InfoboxImage into the generic {{Infobox}}, but it's probably too late for that now.)

{{Classical movement row}} has already got a maximum of ten columns, so combining the two sounds like the sensible thing to do. Alakzi (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

thanks, makes sense, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

How would I get the monkey pietá to the infobox on my talk then? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Using |image=[[File:MonkeyForestPietá.jpg|76px]]. Alakzi (talk) 10:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, - I misread the documentation, and none of the examples has an image to copy from, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

These two edits need to be reverted, if somebody would be so kind. Alakzi (talk) 10:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for spotting that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please check

I transformed now St John Passion discography to templated. Please - if you have time - check for my typical mistakes ;) - As I worked/copied from St Matthew there might be entries not belonging in St John, for example (found a few which I fixed but am sometimes blind for the obvious), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with it, though I've not checked for misplaced entries. You need to be prefixing the ordered lists with an asterisk to avoiding breaking up the outer list. Replace the following:

* '''Choir type'''
# Large choirs (red background): Bach (choir dedicated to Bach's music, founded in the mid of the 20th century), Boys (choir of all male voices), Radio (choir of a broadcaster), Symphony (choir related to a symphony orchestra)
# Medium-size choirs: such as Chamber choir, Chorale (choir dedicated mostly to church music)
# One voice per part (green background): OVPP or OVPP+R (with ripienists reinforcing the soloists in some chorale movements)

* '''Orch. type''' (orchestra type)
# Large orchestras (red background): Bach (orchestra dedicated to Bach's music, founded in the mid of the 20th century), Radio (symphony orchestra of a broadcaster), Symphony
# Chamber orchestra
# Orchestra on period instruments (green background)

... with:

* '''Choir type'''
*# Large choirs (red background): Bach (choir dedicated to Bach's music, founded in the mid of the 20th century), Boys (choir of all male voices), Radio (choir of a broadcaster), Symphony (choir related to a symphony orchestra)
*# Medium-size choirs: such as Chamber choir, Chorale (choir dedicated mostly to church music)
*# One voice per part (green background): OVPP or OVPP+R (with ripienists reinforcing the soloists in some chorale movements)
* '''Orch. type''' (orchestra type)
*# Large orchestras (red background): Bach (orchestra dedicated to Bach's music, founded in the mid of the 20th century), Radio (symphony orchestra of a broadcaster), Symphony
*# Chamber orchestra
*# Orchestra on period instruments (green background)

Alakzi (talk) 17:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, taken, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:57, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox transmitter

I've renamed {{Infobox UK transmitter}} to {{Infobox transmitter}}. Any suggestions for its improvement? Better image handling would be a start... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

We could start with: using Module:InfoboxImage for the |image=; chucking out |footnotes=; renaming |height= to |mast_height= and |height2= to |tower_height=; combining the two switchover parameters (unused); unlinking the switchover label; and incorporating {{Geobox coor}} and {{Location map}}, which would fall back on Wikidata. Alakzi (talk) 18:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Fancy knocking something up in your sandbox, which I can copy over? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

As it happens, this is the only page I'm allowed to edit. Code is below. Alakzi (talk) 18:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

[snip code] That's just what I was looking for; thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

@Andy: Could you please replace line 42 with:

| data4       = {{#if:{{{coordinates|}}}|{{{coordinates}}}|{{#if:{{Both|{{{latd|}}}|{{{longd|}}}}}{{#property:P625}}|{{Geobox coor|{{{latd|}}}|{{{latm|}}}|{{{lats|}}}|{{{latd|}}}|{{{longd|}}}|{{{longm|}}}|{{{longs|}}}|{{{longd|}}}|type:landmark{{#if:{{{coordinates_region|}}}|_region:{{{coordinates_region}}}}}

This should fix retrieving coordinates from Wikidata. Alakzi (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Done; thanks again. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I've logged out to preview a page to confirm that it works, but apparently that's too much to ask for: "You are currently unable to edit pages on Wikipedia due to an autoblock affecting your IP address." I must be Wikipedia's worst enemy. /s Alakzi (talk) 18:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

That's standard. Don't sweat it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:41, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

BTW, you're still free to edit sister projects, such as Commons or Wikidata. I can imagine your skills being very useful at the latter, especially. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Pleas see User talk:Pigsonthewing#Infobox transmitter and, one you're able, perhaps you could kindly mop up, using AWB? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes. You could unset |wikidata= until that time. Alakzi (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Template editing

Sorry it has taken me so long to write here and explain why I removed the template editing user right. Back in March when you requested it, as you acknowledged at the time, you did not meet the granting guidelines. Point 1 is that your account was registered for at least a year, and at the time you were active for just over a couple of months. However they are just guidelines and I used my discretion to grant the request. At the time you seemed to be sensible editor who would benefit greatly from being able to edit templates. Your actions over the past few weeks have caused me to reassess this opinion somewhat: frankly you seemed to go off the rails. Given the damage that a template editor can potentially do, it does not seem wise that editors prone to edit warring and uncontrolled outbursts should have this right. As I had gone out on a limb to add the user right, I felt it was my duty to remove it. It is not my intention that this should be a permanent removal and I certainly hope you rebuild your reputation as a fully trusted editor. Personally I would like to see 1-2 months of drama-free constructive editing before I consider reapplying the right, although of course you are welcome to challenge this decision or reapply at the usual page where it will be looked at by other administrators. I wish you good luck and look forward to seeing you back to active editing in a few days. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

@MSGJ: You removed Alakzi's TE status despite none of the grounds listed at WP:TPEREVOKE for doing so having been met; with no pressing emergency; and with no community discussion of your plan to do so. It was your duty not to do so under such circumstances. It should be restored immediately. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

As MSGJ is the one who gave the right, and used their discretion to do so earlier than normal I think it well within their discretion to remove it. I would suggest to Alakzi waiting until the block has expired and then if you are confident with the result discuss it in a wider venue. While MSGJ has given a set of expectations for the return the right they have also made it clear that they would be satisfied if the community makes it clear they wish Alakzi to have the right and returned by another administrator.

I have little doubt that Alakzi will be able to demonstrate community confidence in this area. Really the only example of abuse of extended rights was the misuse of the bot account to circumvent a block. This is unfortunate but I don't think will result in permanent loss of trust from the community. Chillum 20:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

When MSGJ turned on that status, he did so as an admin acting on behalf of the community. A discussion was open and although he pre-empted it, it is certain that others in the community would have shown support there (the only reason I did not do so, having recommended Alakzi to apply, was that MSGJ beat me to it). The community has expectations of when and under what circumstances TE status may be revoked (personal whim of the admin turning on the status not being one of them), and they were (and are) not met. Hence MSGJs action was ultra vires. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to your (new) impression me, which I lack both the felicity and resolve to challenge. If you don't feel that you can trust me, that's OK. I do not believe that I need to work towards "rebuilding" my reputation; I am who I am, and that's not going to change overnight - nor over the course of two months. (Which is not to say that I do not recognise my shortcomings.) But I also ask that you ("you" being anybody who might be reading this) consider whether there might be more productive ways to approach people who appear to be dejected than finger-wagging and the expression of profound disappointment. Stigmatisation has never helped anybody; quite the contrary. What happened with Malik Shabazz might serve as a better example. Alakzi (talk) 20:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Jumping in (sorry if its unwelcome) to say that Alakzi is one of the most helpful editors and especially template editors that I came across on wikipedia. Whatever happened recently, his contributions far outweigh it. --Gonnym (talk) 18:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree, but people are loss averse: according to prospect theory, losses outweigh comparable gains when evaluating utility. Webdrone (talk) 19:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." It is interesting how clever people grasped such basic concepts long before Adam Smith, Jeremy Bentham and the Chicago School, and the embodied folk wisdom is usually more intelligible to the average Joe than economics jargon. But I digress. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure, the statement "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" feels very intuitive to anyone. However, there is only so much descriptive power in the "embodied folk wisdom" and until someone builds a theory which somehow quantifies/qualifies these phenomena and makes testable predictions, such statements are of limited practical value. How many birds would have to be in the bush to forsake five or ten birds in your hand? Webdrone (talk) 20:14, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

WebDrone, you're being gently teased. I have a bachelor's and master's degrees in economics, and was pretty fair mathematical economist before I decided to pursue a law degree. Believe me, I know first-hand that you begin to lose most of your audience when you introduce basic concepts like marginal utility to the conversation. That said, your point above is, of course, perfectly valid: most administrators see nothing gained by handing out additional tool sets when they perceive some element of risk in doing so. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:54, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Are you and Gonnym any less risk-averse? I would think it's more of a question of the value we each ascribe to normative behaviour, or, perhaps, your exposure to my normative deeds. Alakzi (talk) 21:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely. Your behaviour which may have upset others and to them that might have constituted a great loss, to me doesn't really matter since either I don't work in those areas or else am not particularly involved. People will value the same fact differently and will ascribe different loss/gain values to it if it affects them in a different manner. For instance in your case, you introduced me to Wikipedia and helped me learn how to edit etc. Your presence here has been only positive to me — I am blind to all the losses someone else might see, who may have gained nothing by your presence but only had edits reverted etc. (a troll for instance). But even in the case where people see both losses and gains for your work (for instance template workers), it would take a lot more positive gain for them than losses (to power, authority or any current status quo) to accept your changes. Webdrone (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Alakzi: No doubt that potential accusations of WP:TOOLMISUSE can lead to some CYA. Someone that has not had a previous positive interaction with you is more likely to find you risky.—Bagumba (talk) 21:39, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Ignoring the specific case of Alakzi here and continuing on a more abstract path for the sake of an interesting discussion, the different valuations to losses or gains by each individual might be what causes different people to react differently to the same situation. Webdrone (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Like most economic theory, that assumes that the persons involved are rational actors. The inherent flaw in that is that some folks are guided by a cost-benefits analysis, while others are listening to the voice of Blinky the Clown. Economists (and other mathematical social scientists) assume human decisions are still rational in the aggregate, as in the The Wisdom of Crowds, and economic demand theory and its many derivatives are, in fact, dependent on that assumption. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Closing XfDs you've participated in

Perhaps if we afforded people the benefit of WP:AGF and allowed them to close discussions they participate in, we'd see a dramatic reduction in not-not-voting and more of a willingness to compromise. What is so terrible about letting someone who's invested time and effort in understanding and debating a particular issue wrap the discussion up when there appears to be a consensus? This is yet another of Wikipedia's specious rules that discourage collaboration. Alakzi (talk) 23:16, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

teh rulez, teh rulez, - conclusion: don't invest too much energy in one discussion, - nite, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Closers must have no strong feelings one way or the other. :) The rules are path dependent and there's too much accumulated shit in that direction to make trying to shovel it out seem worth the effort. Opabinia regalis (talk) 23:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, we could simply ignore the figurative trail of shit. That always works out. Trust me. Alakzi (talk) 23:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Potential WP:COI: I wouldn't want someone who !voted to delete an article which I contributed to also be the person who closes that discussion.—Bagumba (talk) 23:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, yes, the assumption is that they'd be biased. But if consensus seems clear, I'd think it matters nought who carries out the outcome. If it's been a heated discussion, then absolutely, it's best to leave it to a neutral third party. However, to object to the closure of a TfD that's a unanimous delete by a participant is unproductive, if nothing else. Alakzi (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

It matters in the second-order way that someone else will eventually think it matters enough to do something about it, and that's almost certainly a bigger waste of time than just not doing it in the first place. I suppose a better use of time would be if I remember to close some TfDs later, though. Opabinia regalis (talk) 00:22, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

God forbid we ever have a good-natured disagreement on Wikipedia. :-) Alakzi (talk) 14:15, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

When you restored your ASCII smiley I noticed you put noses in them. Now that's just weird ;) Opabinia regalis (talk) 22:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Aaaand, it's blown up. Alakzi (talk) 16:57, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Some people just love rules and dramah... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:00, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I think I've probably lost a few years of my life from reading AN and ANI. Alakzi (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

From the department of you-couldn't-make-this-up

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive273#Disclosure Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:37, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

That's "cool story, bro" material. The shit you do and say on the internet will haunt you forever, but it shouldn't necessarily be that way. It looks like he was quite young then, too. OTOH, if he'd just stop being so trigger-happy today, that'd be great. Alakzi (talk) 18:48, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I have indirectly mentioned you here.—Bagumba (talk) 18:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's a little more complex than getting upset with having my rights removed. Ultimately, it's that I'd become so invested in Wikipedia that I'd developed perhaps extraordinary expectations of other people, on quite a personal level. On another note, should I assume that the block on my bot account will be lifted tomorrow? Alakzi (talk) 19:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Bot account unblocked, as (partial) penance. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:38, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Alakzi (talk) 19:43, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Alakzi: I left out details in the interest of providing a brief summary (which was still long), and leaving the focus on the admin's actions, not particulars of the dispute.—Bagumba (talk) 19:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, no, I wasn't criticising you; I just thought I'd take the opportunity to clarify. Alakzi (talk) 19:43, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

NP. "extraordinary expectations of other people": Someone once told me to not think of things as weaknesses in others, but rather strengths of yourself.—Bagumba (talk) 19:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:Composition bar

@User2534: {{Composition bar}} was changed for WP:COLOUR compliance, which could not have been ensured if the text overlaid the bar. (For the purposes of web accessibility, we assume achromatopsia, and thus rely exclusively on contrast.) This is, of course, exemplified by the #3333FF example, the contrast of which is so inadequate, that just about anybody will have some trouble reading. Finally, as we make no guarantee that the bar graphic itself is accessible, a colourblind individual might've found themselves in the unfortunate position of being unable to read both the text and the graphic. If you've got any ideas for improvement that do not sacrifice accessibility, shoot. Alakzi (talk) 11:04, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Another point to make is that graphics are generally considered to be a secondary or complementary medium of information, which is why we are adamant about ensuring colour contrast for text, but we're more lenient with graphics. Alakzi (talk) 11:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Would it be possible to use the original composition bar template as a standard, but make an option for displaying your new format if needed? (For instance a clickable small question-mark behind the comp bar) User2534 (talk) 11:24, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

We'd have to use JavaScript or CSS selectors, neither of which are available inside templates. Alakzi (talk) 11:33, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

If it's about contrast why not just make it so that numbers for instance becomes white over dark comp bar? User2534 (talk) 11:54, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Firstly, because we'd not always be able to achieve a 7:1 contrast ratio, which is standard; a red background (#FF0000), for instance, does not provide adequate contrast against black (5.252) or white (3.998476770754) text. Secondly, the text might span both the filled bar and the background, so that white text might be readable with one, but not the other. Alakzi (talk) 12:10, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Can't remember where, but I'm pretty certain that I've seen a format somewhere on Wikipedia where parts of the text automatically changes colour if the background colour changes for a part only. User2534 (talk) 12:21, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm quite certain there's no such format, unfortunately; it is beyond the realm of what can be automated with style. Alakzi (talk) 12:30, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, was probably thinking of the opinion polling pages where text sometimes is white for darker colours, but I see that it's not "automatic". User2534 (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

It can be made automatic with {{Greater color contrast ratio}}, but only when the background is uniform. The issue presents itself when the text overlaps two different backgrounds, and some of it's got to be coloured white, and the rest black. Alakzi (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

What if you use black background on darker party colours like the third example here Template:Composition bar? If it the two colours then doesnt become too close of course... User2534 (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@User2534: As I have said earlier, we can't always achieve triple-A compliance (a 7:1 contrast ratio) by adjusting the text colour only, so this is all hypothetical. And yeah, there wouldn't be enough contrast between the shaded and unshaded areas of the graphic. We could place the text on a white background, but there would be times when we'd be obscuring the edge of the bar. Alakzi (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Back in the saddle?

What time do you get sprung? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:04, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

In an hour and a half, apparently. Alakzi (talk) 14:06, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Ping me. I'll buy you a digital pint. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: I'd be chuffed. Alakzi (talk) 15:40, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Though I still can't edit any other page because of autoblock. Alakzi (talk) 15:50, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I am currently trying to find the autoblock. Chillum 15:57, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Are you being given an autoblock number? Chillum 15:58, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

6289162. Could you also unprotect my talk page? Alakzi (talk) 15:59, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Are you cleared? This says it will expire 2015-08-21 16:59, but if I try to lift it, it says it is not found. Is there an IP address? Maybe you need to use {{Autoblock}}.—Bagumba (talk) 16:24, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

• You should be good to go. I found the autoblock (it would have expired in 30 minutes, for some reason) and removed it. Someone else got your talk page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I tried to remove it, but Floquenbeam is just too fast and got there first. Chillum 16:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Alakzi (talk) 16:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

sigh. Alakzi (talk) 17:53, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I was gonna help with the TfD backlog, but on second thought, nah. Alakzi (talk) 17:54, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

AWB restored.—Bagumba (talk) 18:01, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

...and I restored the tag. Bot can run again as before. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:12, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

And my apologies. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:16, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. All is well. Alakzi (talk) 18:49, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox gridiron football conversion

Hi Alakzi. Glad to see you back. Are you still interested in adapting your Module:Infobox college coach/convert to meet the needs of converting Template:Infobox gridiron football person to the numbered parameters? Given the very successful run of the module on the college coach infobox, this would definitely be helpful. If you'd prefer not to pursue that, I can poke around and find someone else who's interested. Either way, thanks! ~ Rob^Talk 18:02, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I could do that. Are the |jersey= and |uniform_number= parameters redundant to |number=? Alakzi (talk) 18:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks like it, and I've never seen them in use in modern articles. Maybe I'll make a tracking category later on and see about transitioning any existing uses over to |number=. ~ Rob^Talk 18:28, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@BU Rob13: Here you go. Alakzi (talk) 18:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! That was an impressive turn-around time. A bot is probably the best way to implement this. Would you like to submit a BRFA for Abotzi or shall I submit this BRFA once my current one gets approved? ~ Rob^Talk 19:18, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Still not as quick as Ryanair. ;-)

I'd rather not, to be honest. I'm trying to cut down on the time I spend on here. Alakzi (talk) 19:41, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I can submit it once I get my initial approval for the unrelated task. Do you mind if I request your assistance should any issues get brought up? It's essentially the same code that was already approved, so I doubt there will be any significant issues. ~ Rob^Talk 19:48, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

No, I don't mind at all. You could try setting up some test cases in the fashion of Module:Infobox college coach/convert/testcases. Alakzi (talk) 19:52, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

What's going on with the test cases listing 11 tests failed (for college coach)? ~ Rob^Talk 20:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

It's because they're not really test cases; I'm comparing the output of the module with the template's. A test case would be where you'd compare the output of the module with the expected output, and the two would have to be identical. Alakzi (talk) 20:18, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. ~ Rob^Talk 10:09, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

In starting to put together test cases, it appears that one has failed. The conversion is not handling sports headings properly. Mind taking a look? The test that doesn't appear to be working properly is "test_teamsYears_withSports" (and the closely related "test_teamsYears_withSports_multipleBrs"). ~ Rob^Talk 20:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

@BU Rob13: Well, there are no sports headings in {{Infobox gridiron football person}}. The infobox shows nothing because it requires that both *_team1 and *_years1 are defined; but the data is not actually lost. {{subst:#tag:pre|{{subst:#invoke:Infobox gridiron football person/convert|main|playing_years=Basketball<br>1<br>2<br>3|playing_teams=<br>A<br>B<br>C}}}} produces:

{{Infobox gridiron football person
| name = 
| image = 
| alt = 
| caption = 
| birth_date = 
| birth_place = 
| death_date = 
| death_place = 
| team = 
| number = 
| status = 
| position1 = 
| height_ft = 
| height_in = 
| weight_lb = 
| college = 
| CIS = 
| high_school = 
| CFLDraftedYear = 
| CFLDraftedRound = 
| CFLDraftedPick = 
| CFLDraftedTeam = 
| NFLDraftedYear = 
| NFLDraftedRound = 
| NFLDraftedPick = 
| NFLDraftedTeam = 
| playing_years1 = Basketball
| playing_team1 = 
| playing_years2 = 1
| playing_team2 = A
| playing_years3 = 2
| playing_team3 = B
| playing_years4 = 3
| playing_team4 = C
| career_highlights = 
| CFL = 
| NFL = 
}}

Alakzi (talk) 21:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Would it be possible to have the conversion fail gracefully/return an error when confronted with a _years1, _team1, etc. that consists only of white space? Alternatively, the template could be altered so that if _years1/_team1 don't both exist but _years2/_team2 (etc) exist, then the latter are still displayed. ~ Rob^Talk 21:28, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, I've set it up to output an error inside an HTML comment, which you can then locate with hastemplate:"Infobox gridiron football person" insource:"Template:Infobox gridiron football person conversion error" in Special:Search. Alakzi (talk) 21:48, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Just to make sure I understand how it's working now, all teams/years will now display following conversion, but some info will be hidden (the sport heading) until I manually fix that, right? ~ Rob^Talk 23:07, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

No, the behaviour hasn't changed; they'll all be hidden if either team1 or player1 is empty. Simply, this will make it possible to patch them up promptly without the need for a tracking category or adding upwards to 100 #ifs in the infobox for display purposes, and while maintaining the convenience of an automatic conversion. Alakzi (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Interesting ... any clue why the test cases that were previously displaying as blank are now behaving as I just described, then? That's very odd. ~ Rob^Talk 23:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Because I'd flipped the empty string logic like an idiot and unpaired parameters were being discarded. Now fixed. Alakzi (talk) 23:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, I keep forgetting that empty strings are boolean true in Lua. It's not easy being human. Alakzi (talk) 23:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

CONTRAST and basketball infobox

If you were interested: Template_talk:Infobox_basketball_biography#WP:CONTRAST:_text_color_and_borders. I'll take it as no if there's no activity. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 01:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Somebody needs to add the border to the header methods of Module:College color. Ideally, we should consolidate the infobox and navbox methods. Alakzi (talk) 01:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Can that somebody be you :-) —Bagumba (talk) 01:40, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, it looked like Frietjes was working on it, so I didn't want to butt in. I'll take a look a little later. Alakzi (talk) 01:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Understood. There's no ownership, but there is (in a good way).—Bagumba (talk) 01:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Done. Alakzi (talk) 09:34, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I've moved the border changes from Template:Infobox basketball biography/style/sandbox into the production version.—Bagumba (talk) 22:13, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Help needed: Infobox

Can you please help resolve the color issue on Template talk:Infobox Jain deity. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs) 07:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I gave it a shot. Alakzi (talk) 15:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thankyou, but its not working. Please visit Parshvanatha. Also we don't need another field tirthankar_color, as we already have color. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo 16:08, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

It should be fixed now. Alakzi (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. It worked finally. You are a saviour. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo 16:19, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Can you help me just one more thing please. The image field, can you please set a default size for it. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo 16:33, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

The image defaults to 220 pixels - or whatever you've set your thumbnail size setting to. Per WP:THUMBSIZE, hardcoded pixel widths should be avoided. HTH. Alakzi (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Restore and move

Hey, A. Can you request a restoration of User talk:Alakzi/Infobox college sports team, and have it transferred to my user space? Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Requesting admin help per above. Alakzi (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd like to circle back around to that project for a uniform team infobox, with appropriate options, for all college sports in the near future. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I have restored it. Any user should now be able to move it to the desired location. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:48, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Thanks. Was there also an associated primary page? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:Medal oddity

Hey. Can you take a look a this odd result: the older {{MedalCountry | Great Britain}} renders "Competitor for Great Britain", but {{Medal | Country | Great Britain}} renders "Representing Great Britain". They both should produce the former, not the latter, regardless of which coding format is employed. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:26, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. {{MedalCountry}} should be transcluding {{Medal}} for consistency, but I've no longer the necessary privileges to make that change. Alakzi (talk) 14:30, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, keep a TE to-do list. I'm betting you'll get your TE permission back in a month or so; in the mean time, we need to find a friendly TE to run interference on small tasks for you. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:39, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, there's plenty who frequent this page. ;-) Alakzi (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Do you just want {{MedalCountry}} to become {{Medal|Country|{{{1}}}}} or am I missing something? It seems we have:

• {{MedalCountry|GBR}} ->

|- ! colspan="3" style="text-align:center;vertical-align:middle;background-color:#eeeeee;color:inherit;" class="adr" | Representing GBR

• {{Medal|Country|GBR}} -->

|- ! colspan="3" style="text-align:center;vertical-align:middle;background-color:#eeeeee;color:inherit;" class="adr" | Representing GBR

which are not quite identical, but should produce the same result. If so, I can do that for you. I note that both "Country" and "country" exist as switches in {{Medal}}. The documentation could do with cleaning up. --RexxS (talk) 20:08, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, that's all there is to it; it's the same I've done with {{MedalGold}}, etc., in the past. Anyway, I'd be grateful. Alakzi (talk) 20:22, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm happy to make any TE edits you like until your TE status is - rightly - restored; and will gladly speak in your favour when you decide to request that (not that you should have to) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done - Similarly, I'll do my best to ensure that the encyclopedia doesn't suffer unnecessarily from your temporary inability to contribute where you're most useful. --RexxS (talk) 21:45, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	For your contributions in the realm of template editing and enduring an absurd number of requests for your expertise on your talk page. Thanks for all you do! ~ RobTalk 14:54, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, much appreciated. There's no element of endurance; I quite enjoy it. Alakzi (talk) 15:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	Thanks a lot :D -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo 16:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome, Pankaj. :-) Alakzi (talk) 16:26, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Conference standings tables

Hey. As an experiment, can you reduce the line spacing on Template:1923 Southern Conference football standings? These tables are ridiculously long and take up an inordinate amount of article space, of which the old Southern Conference -- with 20-odd members -- is the most egregious example. There has to be a better solution, and I'm searching for it . . . . If this looks good, I might be interested in a universal solution. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I've reset the line-height in {{Standings Table Entry}} to the infobox default, which is 1.5 em (1.5 times the height of the letters); it was 1.8. Alakzi (talk) 17:03, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

While you're there, you might want to take a look at the inaccessible symbols used (†, ‡, probably § as well) - and the tiny text (73% of normal) that I can't read without zooming the browser. Just a thought. --RexxS (talk) 17:08, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I've bumped the font size, made the title row background brighter, and replaced <br> pseudo-lists with lists. What would you suggest be done with the symbols? Alakzi (talk) 17:22, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I just saw this, so I'm playing catch-up . . . line-height is now 1.5 em, and text size is 85% of main body text, correct? If so, it looks much better; previously the data lines were unnecessarily and disproportionately spaced, as noted. Rexx, what would you recommend for replacement characters for the explanatory notes -- is there any reason we could not use superscript capital letters (e.g., A, B, etc.)? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:30, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

The rule-of-thumb is that any character you can type from a standard keyboard (without using the [Alt] key) is almost certain to be readable by a screen reader. Capitals are fine, of course, as are !$%^&*+#@ (no, I'm not swearing), and so on. Some screen readers can read more symbols than others, although some also have punctuation turned off by default. If you're not sure, I'd always recommend pinging Graham87 to see if he can hear the symbol you're considering. The biggest problem is usually the owners of the affected templates whom you'll have to convince that "we've always done it that way" isn't a great counter-argument against accessibility fixes. --RexxS (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I've replaced the three icons and set up a demo at {{CFB Standings End}}; perhaps Graham could tell us if they're all readable. Alakzi (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Graham87 01:25, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

And it's been reverted. Alakzi (talk) 07:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

My edit too, but at least now we have a reason. Take it to the template's talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:29, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

You thought I was just being cynical when I predicted what the biggest problem would be, didn't you? If I could just get odds on wagers like that, I'd be a very rich dino. --RexxS (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Can y'all provide a link to this template talk page discussion? I can't find it. I'm the guy who requested the test edit (which I believe was very successful in improving the appearance of the table and reducing the article space it previously required), and I concur with the comments above regarding the accessibility of the explanatory note glyphs. If we're going to have a discussion with some sports editor who doesn't quite get it, it would probably be better for all concerned if you pushed me to the forefront of that conversation. If someone needs to "translate" for the benefit of the "masses," it may be better coming from me. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

They reverted because the hash sign was gobbled up by the parser; I've fixed it now. Alakzi (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Immediate problem solved? No reverts? Do we still want to change the explanatory note glyphs? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:18, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, I've had to revert to fix it; no, I've not been counter-reverted. I've replaced the three inaccessible glyphs in the process. Alakzi (talk) 17:27, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Ping me if conflict arises. I'm happy to leave it the way it is now; my major mission has been accomplished. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:36, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Quinn

I'm guessing you've figured this out already, but: the move request needs an admin to close it because the page is protected so that only admins can move it. Anyway, it seems to have been done now. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:15, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, but I'd listed it at WP:RM/TR, so it would've been moved sooner or later. Anyway, matters little. Alakzi (talk) 19:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Stop

Please, stop interfering with the job of WP:SPI Clerk ([1]). SPI Clerks are allowed to removed off-topic material from SPI pages (see: WP:SPI/PROC, "This material should not be reinstated by anyone other than Clerks or CheckUsers"). Your behavior is disruptive to the process. Vanjagenije (talk) 19:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll leave it to you to imagine how much respect I've got for SPI, CUs and their clerks. Alakzi (talk) 20:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

The clerks are just mopping up. That's rather like yelling at the bus driver, because you don't agree with your local transport policy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:05, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Not really; the bus driver is making a living. Clerks have no reason to be. Alakzi (talk) 20:07, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

You also have no reason to be here if you don't want to respect the rules. Please, stop your disruptive edits immediately. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:11, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't respect the rules. Now what? Alakzi (talk) 20:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

You pose a threat to the community now. You are evil. You must be rendered harmless. In the words of Nietzsche:

"How much or how little that is dangerous to the community, dangerous to equality, resides in an opinion, in a condition or emotion, in a will, in a talent, that is now the moral perspective: here again fear is the mother of morality. When the highest and strongest drives, breaking passionately out, carry the individual far above and beyond the average and lowlands of the herd conscience, the self-confidence of the community goes to pieces, its faith in itself, its spine as it were, is broken: consequently it is precisely these drives which are most branded and calumniated. Lofty spiritual independence, the will to stand alone, great intelligence even, are felt to be dangerous; everything that raises the individual above the herd and makes his neighbor quail is henceforth called evil; the fair, modest, obedient, self-effacing disposition, the average in desires, acquires moral names and honors." Webdrone (talk) 15:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Alakzi you are doing a great job making me regret reducing your block. Keep it up and I will reconsider. Chillum 20:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't put up with threats. Alakzi (talk) 20:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Well I am not asking you to. I am asking you to stop being disruptive and telling you what will happen if you do not. Do not expect me to go out on a limb for you in the future either, you are making me look like a fool for reducing your block. Chillum 20:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Right, yeah, being disruptive in the archive of a farce of an SPI case. Please tell me more about how I'm being disruptive. Alakzi (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Well I think WP:STICK it relevant. You need to let this go. You have already had it explained to you that clerks can remove off-topic comments. You inserting an off-topic comment 4 times is disruptive. Frankly if you don't understand how it is disruptive then that is unfortunate but hardly a requirement for us to prevent further disruption. I think right now you are acting in a manner that cannot possibly benefit you. I suggest you take a break if you cannot control your temper otherwise you will take a break regardless of your desire. People get checkusered everyday, you agreed to it when you edited to site, get over it. Chillum 20:29, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

If you're looking for someone or something to assert your authority over, can I suggest a pet turtle? If many other established editors are getting CU'ed every day, that is very, very worrying. Alakzi (talk) 20:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

The quality of the evidence in that SPI says everything there is to be said already. More commentary distracts from it ;)

Relatedly, Chillum, I'm going to guess that "get over it" is second only to WP:CALMDOWN in having the opposite of the intended effect. Opabinia regalis (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

@Vanjagenije: you may assert that WP:SPI/PROC are rules. I say they are not. You have the ability to remove whatever you think inappropriate from those pages, but I'm telling you that you need to be rather more sympathetic to a user who has apparently been checkusered four times without any good reason. I don't disagree that Alakzi isn't helping himself with that material, but it's obvious he wants to protest against his treatment. A wise editor might have talked to him first, rather than inflaming the situation by inviting him to re-revert and then calling him "disruptive".

@Chillum: you will benefit from reading the m:CheckUser policy. The WMF takes use of the checkuser tool very seriously. Nobody has agreed to being checkusered without good reason, nor should they expect that to happen. You don't have access to the checkuser logs and are not in a position to pontificate over whether the checks done on Alakzi were reasonable or not. Until that is established one way or another, you need to step away from this. It's far better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. --RexxS (talk) 20:58, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice RexxS. I will give it all due consideration. Chillum 21:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not concerned with the quality of the evidence; I'm concerned with the guilty until proven innocent approach to CU. For a start. Alakzi (talk) 21:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Template:California wildfires

Template:California wildfires is a brand new template and the color scheme that I initially gave it was incorrect. There is no reason to go about updating multiple other templates because of a typo on this template. --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

My objection is that it's not compliant with WP:COLOUR; that is to say, there's inadequate contrast between the text and the background. We must ensure a minimum contrast ratio of 7:1 for the sake of readers with deficient and impaired vision. Wikipedia:Colour contrast is probably easier to digest. Alakzi (talk) 17:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Per the very link listed on Wikipedia:Colour contrast, there is a ratio of 7.71:1 so what exactly is the problem? --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

@Zackmann08: Except there isn't. Alakzi (talk) 17:59, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah. The issue was that the links were coming up as visited on my end so I was getting #0b0080 for the link color (which does give 7.71:1) while you were getting #0645ad. Fair enough. --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 18:34, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you!

Just wanted to let you know that regardless of our recent interaction on WP:RFPP, I think that you are a net positive to the Wikipedia project. Keep at the good work/feedback you provide, especially with templates. It definitely helps this place! Steel1943 (talk) 19:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that; and you too keep up the good work on RfD and other places. Alakzi (talk) 19:17, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

@Steel1943: Seeing as you've asked for the protection of several templates to be reduced as of late, you may also be interested in this CfD. Alakzi (talk) 19:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

MLB All-Star Game template

Hi,

Would you be able to make the wrapper suggested in here, please? (I've no idea why we need to keep it at all, but there you go...) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I did do so in the sandbox of the two templates. Alakzi (talk) 08:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I've updated both. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:52, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

ANI for personal attacks and disruptive editing

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. —Мандичка^YO 😜 09:21, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, if you're unwilling to abide by WP:COLOUR even after it's been spoon-fed to you you're a -- at best, uncaring at worst. Alakzi (talk) 09:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

"Uncaring the worst", thank you for the phrase. Your message on top might be shorter by the (redundant) circumstances, and by the image, - I preferred before with the sapphire showing when I hover over the talk link ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:16, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

At least the question of my gender is now settled. Alakzi (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I must be blind again (somebody saying "that guy's block log" settles nothing, I have a female friend who is often treated as a guy), also said that I don't care because I don't want to marry you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Provocation

Please do not rise to this latest provocation. You've got mail. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:31, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Read, thank you. Not to worry, Chillum will be here in short time to block me. Alakzi (talk) 10:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Navbox

Given its ubiquity I suggest that we attend to the colour-contrast in {{Navbox}} as soon as possible. Do you have a suggested scheme you could put on its talk page, as a stalking horse? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I would suggest that we simply do not colour in the background of the title, which will also put people off from colouring it in elsewhere, and slightly brighten the groups background. It'll take some getting used to, but so do all things. Alakzi (talk) 11:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Compare:

We could also take a page out of {{Navbox Canada}} and use borders exclusively. Alakzi (talk) 11:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not going to get very involved in this, because I'm not particularly involved in template editing, but it is visually unpleasing to have no background at all for the title but a background for a header below that. I prefer the borders as a solution. ~ Rob^Talk 12:29, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

We could also go for washed-out colours, which would be the easiest to sell. Alakzi (talk) 13:36, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

That may be best. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:38, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I suggest moving this discussion to the template talk page; rather than having it (at least) twice. Tiresome though the resulting bikeshedding may be, it may be better to post a centralised notice of that new discusson, too. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:38, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

AWB error?

Hello Alakzi,

I noticed that you had made this edit to Bob Babich (American football coach) using AutoWikiBrowser (according to your edit summary). I've undone it because the edit resulted in the message "Script error: The function "main " does not exist." to appear in the lead, and I didn't do anything else because I'm not sure what "Split teams/years" (from your edit summary) means. Just letting you know. CabbagePotato (talk) 02:12, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks CabbagePotato - much obliged. I don't know how I missed that! Alakzi (talk) 07:43, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Public art row

Please can you look at the problem with the "owner" row in {{tl|public art row}], as seen in [2]? I've applied a temporary fix to the list article, for now, by entering a dash as data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:26, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Re: My BRFA

I have no desire for your latest block to be because of me, especially given that you're far more capable of answering any concerns about this BRFA's module than I am. Please, let Cyberpower's inquiry rest. Frankly, I'd prefer he just ask rather than have a group of people on IRC chatting about me privately. ~ Rob^Talk 16:30, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Bot request: Infobox NFL player

A, when you have some spare time, can you arrange to have the following parameters, and any and all associated input data, deleted from all transclusions of Template:Infobox NFL player:

1. debutyear = 1992
2. debutteam = New York Jets
3. finalteam = Orlando Rage
4. finalyear = 2001

These parameters were made inoperative earlier this year, and this is clean-up work. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:19, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

I could handle this if you'd like. I recall you expressed a desire to pull back from bot work, if I'm not mistaken. @Dirtlawyer1: Is there an associated discussion somewhere that showed consensus to deprecate these? ~ Rob^Talk 20:26, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Rob, the discussion was on the template talk page, the instructions regarding these parameters were removed, and the deactivation of the particular template parameters was performed by Bagumba. Several editors have been performing piecemeal removal for several months, but my best guess is no more than 10 to 20% of existing template uses have been updated by manual deletion of these parameters. Manual deletion is a huge waste of our editor resources; this is perfect mindless clean-up work for a bot. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:45, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I definitely agree; I was just asking because a BRFA will require a link to the discussion. It's at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 12#First/last appearance in player infobox, for whoever submits a BFRA. I created a tracking category for these parameters at Category:Infobox NFL player with debut/final parameters. Up to you whether you want to do this, Alakzi. Ping me if you want me to submit a BRFA. ~ Rob^Talk 21:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure, you can take it on if you want. Alakzi (talk) 21:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Has this data been transferred to Wikidata? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't appear to be, but I'm not sure it's worthwhile. If we ever transferred over the data for the pastteams parameter, it would contain the information from these deprecated parameters. We aren't losing anything. ~ Rob^Talk 21:14, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

No, Andy, this data has not been transferred to Wikidata. But if Wikidata has parameters for the debut team/season and final team/season of NFL football players, I would be amenable to delaying the deletion of these parameters while you manually transfer the input data for 14,000+ players to Wikidata. Any volunteers? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

"this data has not been transferred to Wikidata" In that case, I object to the removal of this data from Wikipedia. (FYI User:BU Rob13). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:49, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

This information is duplicated in the career fields. OTOH, the career fields contain lists, which aren't exactly what I'd call machine-readable. Alakzi (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Do you have any plans to make such a transfer? I'm happy to leave them if someone plans to transfer the data to Wikidata and it would be easier to have it already separated out, but I don't think we should leave them indefinitely if no-one plans to transfer the data and it could be transferred by reading the first/last item in the pastteams parameter, which duplicates this information. I would feel differently if the data was not duplicated in another parameter, of course. ~ Rob^Talk 22:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Cute, Andy. But apparently you're not willing to volunteer your own valuable editing time, as others have done [Special:Contributions/Dirtlawyer1|1]], to transfer core persondata (i.e. multiple name variants, dates and places of birth, dates and places of death, subject descriptions). If you are serious, please feel free to apply for a bot to transfer all NFL player history to Wikidata, and I will gladly support and applaud your proposal. Before you do so, however, you may want to note that the debut team/season and final team/season data duplicates the data embedded in the complete player histories in these infoboxes, as noted by Rob above, which are not being deleted. If you have any further questions, I will be happy to explain the template functions to you. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Rob: Andy is being facetious because I and a number of other editors objected to Andy's proposal to immediately delete all Persondata without affording concerned editors the opportunity to manually transfer core persondata (as identified above) to Wikidata, after Andy unequivocally stated that remaining Persondata could not be transferred by bot action. Given the core nature of some biographical data that had not been transferred to Wikidata from Persondata, that is a significantly different scenario than that outlined here. I'll leave it to you whether Andy is being serious; if so, I look forward to reading his bot proposal to transfer all NFL career history to Wikidata (and not just the redundant debut and final season datapoints). Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I was missing the context to that. That's what I get for blinking around here. ~ Rob^Talk 22:42, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Don't be mislead, especially by people failing to assume good faith: my comment was not at all facetious. But if, as Alakzi says, no data will be lost, then go ahead. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:10, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Question about tracking category

Hey Alakzi, if you have a moment, mind explaining this edit to me: [3]? I was duplicating syntax from similar tracking categories, and I'd like to know the difference between what I did and your corrected version so I don't make a mistake in the future. Thanks! ~ Rob^Talk 21:20, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Yours wouldn't track empty parameters, which are quite plentiful, I'd imagine. (I'm assuming that we'd want to bin empty parameters too, lest somebody attempts to use them in the future.) Basically, #if will only return "true" if any of the parameters is non-empty. The #ifeq will return "false" (which is to say, "true" for our purposes) if any parameter overwrites the "§" default value; the default value will be overwritten if the parameter is defined, whether empty or non-empty. For the nitty-gritty details of #if checks, see mw:Help:Parser functions in templates. Alakzi (talk) 21:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. ~ Rob^Talk 22:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

User:DMacks1

Man, I take one day off, and miss all the excitement. Thanks for squashing the not-me! DMacks (talk) 01:50, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	Thanks for the help on the U.S. county infobox template! – Illegitimate Barrister, 15:38, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Anytime. :-) Alakzi (talk) 15:40, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox U.S. county

'Cause we all sell apples round here, don't we?

Could you try that as a wrapper for {{Infobox settlement}} please? (I did, but failed.) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:31, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid we might upset the apple cart, but I'll take a look a little later. Alakzi (talk) 22:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

"If life upsets your apple cart, make cider". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:53, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

User temporarily inactive

I've resisted the temptation to reword {{User temporarily inactive}} to say "I'm using this template because I'm a teapot" (to see if anyone notices) and instead TfD'd it, on its own. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:52, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Need a new barnstar

Hey, A. Can you gin up a semi-attractive barnstar template for contributions to Wikipedia's articles about the sport of competitive swimming, perhaps with either a free-image photo or graphic that is representative of the sport? Alternatively, a free-image photo of an Olympic gold would probably work too. Perhaps with an aquamarine or swimming pool blue color scheme (AAA-compliant, of course). I need one to encourage/reinforce some newly active editors in the subject area. Also, I need an attractive template to serve as an invitation to join WikiProject Swimming, perhaps using the same color scheme as the barnstar. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I had time to spare. Alakzi (talk) 18:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, sir -- you're fast. Looks good -- very distinctive look from other barnstars, and I like that it is horizontally defined so as not to spread to fill the width of the monitor screen (like most other barnstars do). One suggestion: I think the overall look would be improved if we had a second contrasting color to complement the swimming pool blue (I assume this is the same hex as used in Infobox swimmer -- correct?). Perhaps we could use a navy or dark royal blue for the header and shadowbox effect to given it a little contrast -- what do you think? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:56, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Nope, it's not the same colour as the infobox's - I didn't even think to look! Uum, maybe? How's it looking now? Alakzi (talk) 19:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I think the darker blue shadow effect provides a needed contrast. How about a hairline/tool line border for the percentage screen area in 100% of the same color as the screen? That should give the light background a little more definition. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:12, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Is that what you had in mind? Alakzi (talk) 19:19, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I was actually thinking of using a border in 100% of the same color that you used for the background screen, but what you did works just as well. Can you gin something up using the same basic design and color scheme which I can use for an invitation to join WikiProject Swimming? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:36, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

See User:Alakzi/sandbox2. Alakzi (talk) 20:08, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

That would be the second cat-induced accidental rollback in two days. That critter is a jerk! Opabinia regalis (talk) 19:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

May I interest you in User:Mr. Stradivarius/gadgets/ConfirmRollback? ;-) Alakzi (talk) 19:43, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Ooh, I can turn them off on my stupid phone too; thanks! The cat probably doesn't like you anymore though. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming... Opabinia regalis (talk) 20:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Opabinia regalis: While we're here, could you restore User:Alakzi/common.js for me? Alakzi (talk) 21:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Did y'all get that sorted? Apparently Opabinia is evolving again. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks good, A. Where are these things going to live: do we move them to template space to be used as a tempalte, or into WikiProject space for copy and paste purposes? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Either works. Would we want to put a star on that barnstar? Alakzi (talk) 21:48, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Maybe a gold star on a gold disc, so it looks like a championship gold medal . . . where would you suggest we put it? It doesn't need to be massive relative to the defined box. . . . 21:58, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

How about File:Pictograms-nps-swimming-2.svg as the basis for the center of a star? ~ Rob^Talk 22:07, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to be slow here, guys. I like the line drawing graphic Alakzi found; the pictogram lacks charm. That said, what about adding a smallish (say 7 to 10 mm) gold star that overlaps the right side of the graphic? I'd like to pass out a few of these over the weekend. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Star-spangling complete. Alakzi (talk) 08:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. That looks good. Where will these animals live? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 09:45, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

@Dirtlawyer1: See Template:WikiProject Swimming barnstar and Template:WikiProject Swimming invitation. Alakzi (talk) 10:07, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

	A kitten for you!
	Will undelete for treats. Opabinia regalis (talk) 22:29, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't bargain with kittens. ;-P Alakzi (talk) 22:58, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Navigation popups

Do you use Navigation Popups? And are you perhaps able and willing to consider some tweaks that I think it could do with having, to enhance its usefulness yet further? I'm aware that your time is already much in demand, not least from me. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I do use navigation popups. Maybe, but coming in contact with JavaScript is something I try very hard to avoid. Alakzi (talk) 23:02, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough, but in case these are things you might want to address, or even find useful yourslef:

• Template sandboxes and testcases
• Wikidata ID

No expectations. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:POLEMIC

Sorry to bug but I wanted to politely request prior to filing an ANI for your group asshole box removal. I believe it violates WP:POLEMIC. I will not be asking for a block at ANI if it progresses to that, just the removal as it can be very divisive to the community and a user namely Floquenbeam that made a mistake in identifying you as a sock and then publicly gave you a mea culpa. Maybe let bygones be bygones for all involved me included, I want to do the same for you too, you seem to enjoy broad community support and it appears you are indeed a very talented editor. Shit happens people get pissed and say stuff all the time, I shouldn't fall into the one incident ruins you crowd or I'd be the biggest hypocrite around. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 04:47, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

No, I'm not going to let bygones be bygones; everybody's made it out of that fiasco unscathed, but not me. A singular apology isn't going to cut it. Regardless, the "group asshole box" is informed by the latest Signpost - its aim being to document my own experiences where I've been subject to exceptional normative assholery, much less than to name and shame any individual editor. The operative word is "groupthink". Alakzi (talk) 08:02, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I'd also still be interested to hear what it was about the CU that made it inconclusive when we live thousands of miles apart. Alakzi (talk) 12:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

In 64 months as a Wikipedia editor, I have never seen another administrator apologize for a mistake more openly, honestly, profusely and publicly than Floquenbeam. Something perhaps you should consider. He's also the admin who went on a limb to unblock you before the SPI results were in and when other administrators were avoiding your talk page. Also something to think about. My two cents. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:46, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I am not thankful to my detainers for releasing me. But, again, to criticise individuals was not my intent. Alakzi (talk) 13:54, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but that's what it looks like. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:07, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Fascinating, that. Please tell me what the twelve entries in my block log and the supposed breach of trust in my user rights log make me look like. Alakzi (talk) 14:19, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I haven't looked at a single block log, not interested. You - and others - look like the first entry on the talk - which here could be "appreciation of her merits", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Similarly, I never look at a block log unless I'm dealing with a vandal or disruptive editor. If you aren't editing disruptively, which I don't expect you to, no-one will look at it. On the other hand, putting a box like that on your talk page is likely to draw attention to the block log. I'm worried that if this goes to WP:ANI, even if a block is not asked for, a lengthy block will be given out. You are a very skilled template editor and an asset to the project. It's silly to throw that away to highlight people's mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. In this case, they've apologized profusely for them. ~ Rob^Talk 14:35, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The point is that they are not mistakes, but patterns of behaviour that are innate to the Wikipedia microcosm. Only Floq apologised; and as I've said previously, I am not looking for apologies. (I wonder if anybody ever listens to anything I say.) I'm not worried about the prospect of being blocked, so, please, stop trying to save me from myself, which I find very offensive. Alakzi (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for the response. On a second thought MFD will be a better option rather then ANI and it will only ask for the deletion of the box nothing else. I will excuse myself from your page after I post that. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:06, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

"If you aren't editing disruptively... no-one will look at it" Rob, that's bullshit. Alakzi's block log will be looked at and cited by anyone wanting to score points against them, or otherwise hurt them, regardless of their (Alakzi's) behaviour. We see this time and again. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

If they were to do that, it would be incivil, and that should be treated accordingly. In reality, it probably wouldn't be, but such is life, I suppose. ~ Rob^Talk 16:47, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's not like you witnessed it happening and even reported it to an admin, who then chided me. Alakzi (talk) 16:51, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Indeed it would and indeed it should. Much good does that do in practice. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Another chore

Please have a look at the changes suggested by Etamni in User talk:BethNaught#Doctor Who episode list. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:33, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see why we might want to add rowspans to {{Episode list}}; that's exactly what we were trying to avoid. Alakzi (talk) 11:34, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Non-admin closures

As of a few years ago, non-admins weren't supposed to close XfDs as "delete". Has this changed? I ask because I noticed you closed the TfD for Template:Other_Hoysala_temples and I frequently run across clear-consensus-to-delete/clearly-within-policy-or-guidelines-to-delete XfDs that I would like to close in a similar manner, so the admins can concentrate on the closures that require actual judgement. However, I won't do this unless I know that the rules have changed to allow this. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:23, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

@Davidwr: The practice was quasi-formally established after a recent RfC at WT:TFD. Non-admins are - indeed - now welcome to close uncontroversial TfDs as delete, and myself, Andy, BethNaught‎‎ and a few other people have been doing so in the past month. Have at it! Alakzi (talk) 20:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I updated Wikipedia:Non-admin closure to link to this RfC. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:29, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Rhaetian Railway articles

I don't understand why you've replaced the colours in the infoboxes of these articles with black on light grey. White on red is the official colour scheme of the Rhaetian Railway, as used for several decades on its trains and publicity material, including the RhB website. The Rhaetian Railway has also been known to publicise itself in German as "die kleine Rote" ("the little red"). I have checked the white on red colours using the snook colour contrast check: brightness and difference are sufficient, and the contrast ratio reaches at least WCAG 2.0's AA level, which is all that Wikipedia requires, at least where the choice of background colour is "appropriate, representative, and accessible", as it is here. Also of relevance to the question of accessibility is that the red background applies only to the infobox headers, which do not need to be legible for a reader to understand the contents of the rest of the infoboxes. Similar comments apply to the Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn articles. Unless you can explain to me a good reason for changing the colours, bearing in mind that full AAA compliance is neither compulsory on Wikipedia, nor recommended by WCAG, I will change them back. Bahnfrend (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

WP:COLOUR suggests AAA "where feasible". I don't see what exactly might be inhibiting the use of a triple-A colour combination in this particular instance. Other RR articles, such as Rhaetian Railway ABe 8/12, use a darker colour scheme, which you're welcome to replicate. Alakzi (talk) 14:17, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Teahouse invitations

Hey. Question about the merge of a close you performed today. See Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2015_August_23#Template:Teahouse_invitation_TW. Is there anything actually to be done here? Changing the text of the widely used template needs a wider discussion, so I'm setting that aside for a moment. It appears that a simple redirect would properly "merge" these two with no work. Surely I'm missing something here? ~ Rob^Talk 01:02, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

They seem to want the option to use the Twinkle blurb; it could be added a simple on/off switch, e.g. |alt_text=yes. It might be an idea to consult with the Teahouse first. Alakzi (talk) 07:38, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

My permissions

Per WP:PERM, I'm requesting the removal of my two remaining user rights and AWB access. Alakzi (talk) 10:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)`

I've removed these permissions as requested. Yunshui ^雲_水 10:15, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Very odd merge in holding cell

Hi Alakzi. What do you think about the merge of {{Infobox Iranian election campaign}} to {{Infobox Election Campaign}} currently pending following this discussion? It makes little sense to me. They may have similar names, but the two templates are entirely distinct. The former has to do with the campaign of a single candidate while the latter has to do with election results for two parties. It seems fairly obvious that these can't be merged, and I have no idea how the discussion closed as it did. How would you recommend proceeding? ~ Rob^Talk 23:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

@Rob: {{Infobox Iranian election campaign}} appears to have been forked from {{Infobox U.S. federal election campaign}}; the former could be globalised with little effort, but non-American election campaign articles are somewhat of a rarity. The sole {{Infobox Election Campaign}} transclusion could be replaced with {{Infobox election}}, which has got a bunch of customisable fields for gallups and such. Alakzi (talk) 00:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Probably best to figure this out by filing another TfD, I imagine. ~ Rob^Talk 00:20, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Andy? Alakzi (talk) 00:25, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

See my original proposal. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:17, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Paul Signac

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Paul Signac. Legobot (talk) 00:05, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Substitution pending

When you're marking templates as "substitution pending", this indicates that the only thing needed to complete the merge is to substitute remaining transclusions, correct? Double checking before I go at it with AWB. ~ Rob^Talk 15:34, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Which ones will you be doing? Alakzi (talk) 15:36, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I plan to eventually submit a BRFA for {{Infobox Paris metro}}, {{Infobox Deutsche Bahn station}}, and {{Infobox China station}}, as their transclusion counts are in the thousands. It's not feasible for a human editor to do those, at least not in a timely fashion and without wanting to kill themselves. ~ Rob^Talk 15:56, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

OK. You'd need to substitute the sandboxes of China and Japan station; see also Wikipedia:Bot requests#Replacement of Template:Infobox Country World Championships in Athletics. Alakzi (talk) 16:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm learning! (or not, we'll see)

Mind checking out Template:Infobox computer peripheral/sandbox and letting me know how I did in attempting to create an appropriate template that could be substituted to complete the merge into {{Infobox computer hardware}}? I'm sure it's the Frankenstein's monster of templates, but I think it serves its purpose. I'm especially interested in how badly I fucked up the parser functions whether the parser functions do their job, as well as whether my use of safesubst was appropriate. ~ Rob^Talk 21:22, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Very good, but remember never to leave a blank line before/after a <noinclude> and to safesubst: keywords. I'd have normally unbundled the nested #ifs into a #switch with a truthy control variable; but in this particular instance, I'd have rewritten it as follows:

{{{{{|safesubst:}}}#ifeq:{{{minimum|}}}|{{{maximum|}}}
| {{{minimum|{{{maximum|}}}}}}
| {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#invoke:Separated entries|main|separator=–|{{{minimum|}}}|{{{maximum|}}}}}
}}

Leading and trailing whitespace and new lines inside #ifs are trimmed, so do use them to make your code more readable. Alakzi (talk) 21:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll keep both of those in mind for the future. Is there any page with a list of modules that tend to be useful for templates? I'd never seen Module:Separated entries before, for instance, but it's the best tool for this task. ~ Rob^Talk 00:33, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Afraid not, but here are some utility templates you might find useful:

• Template:Both - check that both parameters and non-empty without having to nest #ifs
• Template:If empty - a saner alternative to nesting parameter aliases
• Template:Parameters - performs a variety of tasks to help with merging and documenting templates
• Module:LuaCall - call any Scribunto method directly from wikitext
• Template:Geobox coor - an error-catching Template:Coord wrapper
• Module:Separated entries and all of its wrappers, like Template:And list
• Template:Ensure AAA contrast ratio - track WP:COLOUR violations
• Template:Greater color contrast ratio - automatically colour the text according to contrast ratio
• Module:DemoTemplate - makes demonstrating templates a breeze

Alakzi (talk) 08:15, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Question on TfD process

Template:NTFA (1886-1986) seasons was deleted earlier today, but it was still transcluded on an article until I removed it a few minutes ago. I'm very rusty with TfD and I've never been super-active there to begin with, but it seems like this isn't how the process is meant to work. So basically I have a bunch of questions: was it my responsibility as the nom to remove the transclusions (I didn't think so, but things could well have changed)? should my nom rationale have been more explicit that it wasn't orphaned? was it your responsibility as closer/G6 tagger (honestly not having a go if it was)? was it the deleting admin's responsibility to check it had no transclusions? or, alternatively, have I misunderstood this whole thing? Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 12:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

It was my responsibility and omission. As it was all red links, I'd probably not thought to check for transclusions, and I might've been slightly misguided by "[it] doesn't navigate anything". Alakzi (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, no problem, it happens. My initial post here now looks overly lengthy... Cheers, Jenks24 (talk) 12:45, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Question about merging infoboxes with slightly different links, etc

Hiya. I'm working on the merge of {{Infobox World Bowl}} et al into {{Infobox Super Bowl}}, and I think the best way to accomplish it is an additional parameter for type of game that adjusts the various links, headers, etc (i.e. if "|type = sb", all the links to articles, etc reflect Super Bowl info, if "|type = wb", all the links to articles, etc reflect World Bowl info). Before I go about doing this with ifeq, is there an easier way to manage something like that? I've got to imagine there's a module or something that allows you to handle this in a more straight-forward way than nested ifeq functions. ~ Rob^Talk 21:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd use a #switch inside a sub-template to emulate functional programming; see {{Infobox soccer draft}} and {{Infobox soccer draft/draft}} for inspiration. I'm a bit short on time right now, but please let me know if you'd like me to explain further. Alakzi (talk) 21:52, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

"#switch" was exactly what I was looking for, pretty much: an if-elseif-elseif framework. I noticed you were looking at the sandbox. Thoughts? I think it works quite well and easily allows for merges of the other templates but am certainly up for suggestions if there's a better way to go about things. ~ Rob^Talk 01:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'd use a master switch in a sub-template, so that we won't have to go hunting through the infobox code to make changes to links. And do we need to repeat the broadcasters link? Alakzi (talk) 01:22, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

The code won't get much more complicated than it already is in the infobox code; while there are many other templates to merge, most don't appear to have unique links (for instance, most use MVP, not a specified page like the Super Bowl has). I'd think a template-within-a-template would complicate things in this case. The repeated broadcasters link is somewhat necessary, as it appears some templates have only one of the network or announcers parameters. I did remove a third link to it in the header, though. ~ Rob^Talk 01:38, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't see why it might complicate things. We regularly split out configuration settings, for instance, because it makes it easier for non-programmers to edit those settings and makes the code more readable. Alakzi (talk) 08:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

The problem, in my opinion, is that you'd have to split out every switch. Multiple are needed. If it were just one, it would make sense to me, but having 4-5 subtemplates is a bit overkill when each switch is just a few lines, isn't it? Or is there a way to do this all in one template? ~ Rob^Talk 14:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

You'd nest the switches, either by label or by type. Alakzi (talk) 15:31, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

For my page watchers

I have now asked for further input on the revocation of my template editor user right at WP:AN, where I will be doubtless harassed to the point that I will be driven out of Wikipedia. Alakzi (talk) 08:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Please don't let others drive you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:25, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I just got aware of that issue, after it was posted at AN (which is on my watchlist). Alakzi, could you tell me why you don't trust the community? That sounds a bit strange, I mean, to trust, or not, an indiscriminate and vague collective of people. Kraxler (talk) 15:30, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

The community I refer to is the "community" many AN and AN/I regulars invoke to give credence to their asshole opinions. It is the community that's unapologetically dragged me to SPI; run a minimum of four checks on my account; blocked me several times due to and to cover up their own failings; and accused me of being a sockpuppet of a banned editor. And it is this community which then had the gall to proclaim that I have breached their trust. Whether opinion diverges on the fringes is irrelevant; the decision-making core comprises amoral extreme reactionaries. Alakzi (talk) 15:56, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

We don't harass people of Wikipedia because they want to contribute in the template area. You may find it hard to believe but we want to you stay here and continue the very good work you have been doing. You were not blocked to cover up anything, these sorts of assumptions of bad faith insult others and poison your own expectations. Chillum 15:59, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Alakzi, I don't think that you can generalize like that. The actions you describe above were done by some particular users, invoking (falsely) "community support", and they'll have to take responsibility for it. I'll have a look at this later on, and may post something at AN. I suggest you drink a few cups of tea in the meanwhile, and try to calm down. I know, it's not easy, years ago, during some heated arguments, I was too on the verge of leaving forever, but I'm still around, and remain cool as a cucumber now even during red-hot arguments. Kraxler (talk) 17:51, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

"Calm down" typically has the opposite effect. I was also at that point, but stayed telling myself that some would enjoy me leaving, and I didn't want to grant that pleasure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:21, 6 September 2015 (UTC)