Talk:Twitter: Difference between revisions
→Requested move 17 May 2024: Oppose renaming |
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*'''Oppose''' because making [[X (social network)]] a separate article is preferable. There's so much shift in the platform after the acquisition (premium service, API pricing, check mark policy, media reports on increased hate speech...) that different articles should cover the entities. [[User:Emiya Mulzomdao|Emiya Mulzomdao]] ([[User talk:Emiya Mulzomdao|talk]]) 16:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose''' because making [[X (social network)]] a separate article is preferable. There's so much shift in the platform after the acquisition (premium service, API pricing, check mark policy, media reports on increased hate speech...) that different articles should cover the entities. [[User:Emiya Mulzomdao|Emiya Mulzomdao]] ([[User talk:Emiya Mulzomdao|talk]]) 16:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' and instead support [[User:Masem]]'s proposal to rename [[Twitter under Elon Musk]] due to the drastic shift in the platform's governance and policies following the acquisition. [[User:Aditoo17|<span style="color:blue;font-weight:bold;">Aditoo17</span>]] [[[User talk:Aditoo17|💬]]|[[Special:Contributions/Aditoo17|✒️]]] 16:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Oppose''' and instead support [[User:Masem]]'s proposal to rename [[Twitter under Elon Musk]] due to the drastic shift in the platform's governance and policies following the acquisition. [[User:Aditoo17|<span style="color:blue;font-weight:bold;">Aditoo17</span>]] [[[User talk:Aditoo17|💬]]|[[Special:Contributions/Aditoo17|✒️]]] 16:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose move.''' The better option is to rename the Twitter under Musk article and shift stuff between the pages. '''[[User:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">O.N.R.</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Old Naval Rooftops|<span style="color:#002244">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 16:40, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:40, 17 May 2024
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Frequently asked questions Q1: Why don't you rename this article to "X"?
A1: For recognizability and ease of searching, Wikipedia articles use the name most commonly used in reliable sources, which is not necessarily the official name used by its owner or its current name. For example, we use Kanye West instead of Ye (musician), Statue of Liberty instead of Liberty Enlightening the World, and United Kingdom instead of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Renaming this page "X" would also require some form of parenthetical disambiguation, whereas Wikipedia prefers the use of natural disambiguation if possible.This subject has been discussed extensively. As of May 2024[update], there is strong consensus against renaming Twitter-related articles to "X". Please see the following discussions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Please do not attempt to make a new move request unless there have been substantial new developments or if you have a highly convincing argument that was not previously considered. |
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Twitter name
I read the FAQ. Looked at the RMs. Couple thoughts:
- Most prior discussions have low attendance, less than a dozen editors. I don't see discussions of long length involving the wider community.
- The argument of discoverability is the same argument that Twitter is/was the better brand name. Hardly anyone will disagree with that, forever. It was an epic brand rename failure. Thus, we on Wikipedia will always argue that Twitter is more "discoverable", because it's fundamentally true on and off Wikipedia. Nevertheless, maintaining Twitter forever, for discoverability reason, is POV, essentially concurring with - and consciously indicating - it was a brand rename failure.
- X.com redirects to twitter.com .. this is an extremely strong case for keeping Twitter for now. If/when the company changes to X.com, the case for Twitter gets weaker.
- Wikipedia can follow the lead of many other sources using "X (formerly Twitter)" etc.. as an intermediary step, a deprecation step. This is already done piecemeal throughout Wikipedia.
-- GreenC 14:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with concerns over small headcounts in the previous RMs. An RfC should probably be done in the future, with options like "X (social network)", "X (website)", "X (formerly Twitter)", and "Twitter" as titles. SWinxy (talk) 19:44, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would keep the current article name, because it’s the historical and common name. But if you had to change it, I would change it as “X (formerly Twitter). TheMasterMind321 (talk) 20:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- Unless we can agree on “X (formerly Twitter)” being the WP:COMMONNAME I doubt that we could change it to that. I can’t think of instances where we had to attach the former name to the title, and you’re unlikely to get consensus on changing it to something like “X (social network)”. The fact that the URL is still twitter.com and consensus being that “Twitter” is the COMMONNAME lends credence to maintaining the current title. Padgriffin Griffin's Nest 03:15, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
(formerly XXX)
would be an unconventional form of disambiguation. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)- Also this would set precedent for other titles like ye (formerly Kanye West). Padgriffin Griffin's Nest 11:10, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Lead wording
The lead currently begins X, commonly referred to by its former name Twitter
, though it is edited frequently and may well change again during this discussion. Other versions appearing this week include Twitter, officially known as X since July 2023
, and simply X
. Can we agree on a stable version? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Certes (talk • contribs) 05:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- I thought I put a hidden note the other day asking editors not to change the established wording. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:40, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
X vs. Twitter in other articles
Okay, is there any clear guidance on which name should be used in other articles? Should it still be referred to universally as Twitter? "X (formerly Twitter)"? ViperSnake151 Talk 04:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Changing the lead sentence.
The lead sentence should be: “Twitter, officially known as X since July 2023.” Instead of “X commonly referred by its former name, Twitter.” It’s just better wording, and it saves some time reading. + the article name is “Twitter.” So start it with Twitter & not X because people might not know what that means. And then add “officially known as X since July 2023.” To let people name it started out as Twitter then became X in July 2023. Therefore spreading more information. So my version of the lead sentence makes more sense. TheMasterMind321 (talk) 20:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- I would agree, but there is hidden text saying
Please do not alter this wording
. Is there a consensus for this wording, or was it added unilaterally? BilledMammal (talk) 02:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)- The wording was shaped by multiple editors over the course of several months. The hidden note was added because drive-by editors would arbitrarily change the wording every few days, which led to edit wars and instability. I don't think any wording is necessarily "better" than others (there are probably a million different combinations we can use), but there is WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS for the current wording. If editors desire a formal discussion to reach formal consensus on a wording, I wouldn't be opposed. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- The current version was authored by @Unknown0124 in February 2024. Before that, it changed many times (
formerly and commonly
,colloquially
,formerly known as
,formerly called
,currently rebranding to X
, etc.) Again, I don't really have a preference for which wording, but I do think we should pick one and stick to it. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Changing primary URL.
Twitter officially known as X since July 2023. Is changing their primary domain from Twitter.com to x.com, and it’s already happening on the app. X.com will be the primary, we don’t know if Twitter.com will be a secondary domain or not even exist. And t.co most likely stay. So x.com is the new primary url. TheMasterMind321 (talk) 20:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's not. Tested. — kashmīrī TALK 21:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's slowly rolling out, here in the states it still takes me to Twitter.com and asks me to migrate from a "Legacy Twitter.com account to an X.com account" but after closing that it lets me in. See here: https://twitter.com/d1mden/status/1790332811141865575 TechnoKittyCat (talk) 02:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Can confirm users in NZ are experiencing this. Keep getting redirected to x.com instead of twitter.com. I hate it. 115.188.25.183 (talk) 21:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not happening at least in the U.S., but regardless, we would need a (reliable) source to support that. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not confirmed by Probely[1]. — kashmīrī TALK 22:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- VPNing into NZ redirects to X.com for me. In the states it goes to Twitter.com for me, and my profile is still copied as Twitter.com/[myusername] TechnoKittyCat (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- +1 as an Australian, redirects to x.com if I go to twitter.com. Seems like they're rolling it out in some jurisdictions, probably as a test. I've updated the article to say that as of today , in some jurisdictions twitter.com redirects to x.com with a citation. If anyone has any issue then go at it I guess haha Luminism (talk) 08:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is still Twitter.com here in Britain. Possibly there are some experiments, but X.com is still nowhere near being the official domain.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- +1 another Australian. It's redirecting to x.com for me but showing the following error message on desktop: "Something went wrong, but don’t fret — let’s give it another shot." My best guess is that they're phasing it in. It's working for me on mobile view though. It's not letting me archive but it's showing the following message: "Welcome to x.com! We are letting you know that we are changing our URL" Since it says that they're changing it, it means that they haven't completely changed it for everyone and there's no need to update the primary URL until it's transitioned. 𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓔𝓭𝓾𝓬𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓐𝓾𝓭𝓲𝓽𝓸𝓻 13:24, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- In the US, site redirects to X.com now. My profile link still copies as twitter.com TechnoKittyCat (talk) 04:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- +1 as an Australian, redirects to x.com if I go to twitter.com. Seems like they're rolling it out in some jurisdictions, probably as a test. I've updated the article to say that as of today , in some jurisdictions twitter.com redirects to x.com with a citation. If anyone has any issue then go at it I guess haha Luminism (talk) 08:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- VPNing into NZ redirects to X.com for me. In the states it goes to Twitter.com for me, and my profile is still copied as Twitter.com/[myusername] TechnoKittyCat (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Domain name changed
Twitter.com is now x.com, and you have no excuse not to change the article name. Kerim Demirkaynak (talk) 07:48, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- It is x.com for me in Britain now and has changed in the last 24 hours. Still looking for secondary sourcing on this but it looks like the change is in progress.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Previous consensus: I don't have an opinion on this matter but there have been six move requests in five months, the previous one as recently as five months ago, and the general consensus has been that unless the new article title meets WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NAMECHANGES, WP:NATURAL and/or WP:CRITERIA, it is unlikely to be moved. The name an entity chooses to identify as is not always the article title. For example, if Kanye West identifies as Ye, it doesn't mean that Ye is more recognisable. It is extremely unlikely the article would be moved to X so if it is ever moved, it may be to X (social network). 𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓔𝓭𝓾𝓬𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓐𝓾𝓭𝓲𝓽𝓸𝓻 09:20, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Confirmation via the Verge. That said, while renaming is now likely an option, I still suggest that we should keep anything dealing with Twitter prior to Musk's buyout as a separate, historical article. --Masem (t) 11:57, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the article name unchanged per WP:COMMONNAME. It's already X.com here in the Philippines. Ahri.boy (talk) 12:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Twitter could be a separate article, similar to how Twentieth Century Pictures and Fox Film have separate articles despite being merged to form no prizes for guessing. Kailash29792 (talk) 13:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- "You have no excuse" is not how discussion happens here. Maybe things work differently on the Turkish Wikipedia, but we operate by consensus. — Scott • talk 15:57, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 17 May 2024
It has been proposed in this section that Twitter be renamed and moved to X (social network). A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Twitter → X (social network) – The arguments presented in the talk page notice are not sufficient; such a supposition must be stated before I may present my arguments. Likewise, the previous discussions referenced do not adequately express the necessity of a move request. I believe this qualifies as both a "substantial new development", as references to "Twitter" now appear officially absent, and an objection to a previously and overwhelmingly considered argument.
The argument that Twitter is the WP:COMMONNAME for the topic of this article is not well-supported, and the referenced articles above are not comparable. For instance, Kanye West is the name Ye chooses to perform under. The Washington Post lists several companies that have changed their name after becoming established. Though these examples often predate Wikipedia or occurred before the pages for these companies were made. It is not uncommon for a company to change its name or the name of its service; despite the strange decision, the usage of "Twitter" does not reflect self-references to Twitter or X by the company and an increasing acceptance towards "X". Though not infallible, Google Trend data suggests an acceptability towards X.
Though there remains a significant usage of the term, I believe sufficient time has passed to support the claim that X may be used to a degree wide enough that—with consideration for official usage—this move request is supported. The term "X" has largely replaced "Twitter" in news articles where the service is not being referred to in the past, though "formerly known as Twitter" remains a common descriptor. This appears to be associated with a change in the AP Stylebook. help.x.com refers to "X Rules" and "X accounts", and twitter.com is now x.com, the reason why I have suggested this move; The Verge wrote "it's not Twitter anymore". In a personal account, many articles I edit where a person is quoted on the topic have increasingly referred to X, not Twitter.
This move request is largely without precedent, but there exist instances where object within the real world have changed names, creating an inconsistency with colloquial references to said object. Willis Tower in Chicago is commonly referred to as Sears Tower because the tower had been known as that for 35 years. Similarly, Comiskey Park is known as Guaranteed Rate Field and formerly U.S. Cellular Field, but Chicago residents continue to refer to the field as "Comiskey". Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport is Washington National Airport to many. Name rights moves may be comparable in this circumstance, as they present a shift in colloquial terminology and official terminology that is reflected within Wikipedia to adhere to the present name of the field or building. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 13:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Hope it happens sooner rather than later, because at this point there's no excuse to not move it. Unknown0124 (talk) 14:32, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose only because what should be done is keep Twitter as everything pre-Musk take over (with a brief summation of the takeover), and move Twitter under Elon Musk to X (social network) to cover the takeover. There will need to be some content shifted between these two articles, but this will make future editing of the new stuff cleaner than trying to fit the new stuff into what Twitter did from the start. --Masem (t) 15:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Also we should decide what to do with History of Twitter, which I think should be merged into these two articles on the same basis; the content there split between pre- and post-Musk easily fits within both of these suggested articles. — Masem (t) 15:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- I completely agree with both of these suggestions. Sock (
tocktalk) 15:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- I completely agree with both of these suggestions. Sock (
- Also we should decide what to do with History of Twitter, which I think should be merged into these two articles on the same basis; the content there split between pre- and post-Musk easily fits within both of these suggested articles. — Masem (t) 15:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support. There is no reason not to rename the page, X has been known by its new name for a good while now, the only people protesting this are those living in a pipe dream where they think that not changing this page name is going to make Elon rebrand X to Twitter. Professional Adriazeri (talk) 15:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support The last vestiges of what was once Twitter have been scrubbed from the Earth. Bremps... 15:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. The correct course of action to address these distinct entities is as Masem suggests above. — Scott • talk 15:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support but Twitter as an entity that existed between 2006 and 2024 may have to be split off into a separate article.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose because making X (social network) a separate article is preferable. There's so much shift in the platform after the acquisition (premium service, API pricing, check mark policy, media reports on increased hate speech...) that different articles should cover the entities. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 16:06, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose and instead support User:Masem's proposal to rename Twitter under Elon Musk due to the drastic shift in the platform's governance and policies following the acquisition. Aditoo17 [💬|✒️] 16:31, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose move. The better option is to rename the Twitter under Musk article and shift stuff between the pages. O.N.R. (talk) 16:40, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
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