Talk:Charlotte Flair: Difference between revisions
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'''SUPPORT''' Should already be moved, but to add my two cents, essentially all official sources are using "Charlotte Flair" now, including WWE themselves (as noted multiple times above). They've gone as far as listing her as "Charlotte Flair" on the Raw Women's Championship title history, even for her first two reigns when she was just "Charlotte". The argument that the announcers haven't called her "Charlotte Flair" is silly. Ring announcers often use the short name. --[[User:JDC808|<font color="green">JDC808</font>]] [[User talk:JDC808|<font color="black">♫</font>]] 04:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC) |
'''SUPPORT''' Should already be moved, but to add my two cents, essentially all official sources are using "Charlotte Flair" now, including WWE themselves (as noted multiple times above). They've gone as far as listing her as "Charlotte Flair" on the Raw Women's Championship title history, even for her first two reigns when she was just "Charlotte". The argument that the announcers haven't called her "Charlotte Flair" is silly. Ring announcers often use the short name. --[[User:JDC808|<font color="green">JDC808</font>]] [[User talk:JDC808|<font color="black">♫</font>]] 04:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC) |
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'''Support''' It's been made official that her name is Charlotte Flair. |
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== Add Bow Down to The Queen as the NXT name for Natural Selection == |
== Add Bow Down to The Queen as the NXT name for Natural Selection == |
Revision as of 06:00, 7 November 2016
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Orphaned references in Ashley Fliehr
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ashley Fliehr's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "OWOW":
- From Kevin Nash: "Kevin Nash's profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-08-18.
- From Rosa Mendes: "Rosa Mendes". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved May 25, 2008.
- From Tenille Dashwood: "OWOW profile".
- From Bo Dallas: "Taylor Rotunda profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved May 18, 2012.
- From Dustin Rhodes: "Dustin Rhodes profile". Online World of Wrestling.com. Retrieved 2009-08-19.
- From Natalya (wrestler): "Natalya Neidhart Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 26, 2008.
- From Claudio Castagnoli: "OWOW profile".
- From John Layfield: "John Bradshaw Layfield Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-27.
- From Damien Sandow: "Damien Sandow". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-12-20.
- From Mason Ryan: "Mason Ryan". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 11 August 2010.
- From The Great Khali: "Khali at OWOW". Online World of Wrestling.com. Retrieved 23 September 2007.
- From Bret Hart: "Bret Hart profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-07-30.
- From Rey Mysterio: "Rey Mysterio Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2012-10-19.
- From Ricky Steamboat: "Ricky Steamboat's Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-06-06.
- From Dwayne Johnson: "The Rock Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 13, 2008.
- From Mark Henry: "Mark Henry Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-04-13.
- From Consequences Creed: "Austin Creed profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
- From Kaitlyn (wrestler): "Kaitlyn". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-09-15.
- From The Usos: "The Uso Brothers – Online World of Wrestling". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved July 9, 2011.
- From Big Show: "OWOW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Archived from the original on 25 June 2009. Retrieved 2009-07-24.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (help) - From Cody Rhodes: "Cody Rhodes Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved October 18, 2007.
- From Adam Birch: "Joey Matthews profile". Online World of Wrestling. Archived from the original on April 2, 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-20.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (help) - From Road Dogg: "OWOW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-01.
- From List of family relations in professional wrestling: "Charlie Haas Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-22.
- From William Regal: "William Regal Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-20.
- From Eddie Colón: "Primo Colon Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-06-16.
- From Byron Saxton: "Byron Kelly Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-04.
- From Randy Orton: "Randy Orton Bio". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved July 16, 2008.
- From Lita (wrestler): "Lita Bio". Online World of Wrestling. Archived from the original on 2 December 2009. Retrieved 2009-12-01.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (help) - From Sean Waltman: "Sean Waltman Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-05-01.
- From Ric Flair: "OWOW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-08-29.
- From Armando Estrada: "Armando Alejandro Estrada Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Archived from the original on 22 April 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-25.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (help) - From Stone Cold Steve Austin: ""Stone Cold" Steve Austin at Online World of Wrestling".
- From Matt Striker: "Matt Striker Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-02.
- From Josh Mathews: "Josh Mathews Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 21, 2008.
- From Reid Flair: "Reid Flair". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-02-14.
- From Sheamus: "Sheamus O'Shaunessy". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-07-16.
- From Sgt. Slaughter: "Sgt. Slaughter Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-10-19.
- From Scott Armstrong (wrestler): "Scott Armstrong Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-03-14.
- From Brad Maddox: "Brad Maddox". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved March 18, 2012.
- From Max Pelham: "Max Bauer profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-04-28.
- From Justin Gabriel: "Justin Gabriel on Twitter!".
{{cite web}}
: Text "date+2011" ignored (help) - From Naomi Knight: "OWW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 15 August 2011.
- From Ricardo Rodriguez (wrestler): "Online World of Wrestling Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2 September 2011.
- From Ezekiel Jackson: "Ezekiel Jackson profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-07-24.
- From Christian (wrestler): "Christian Cage's profile". Online World of Wrestling. Archived from the original on 2012-06-23. Retrieved 2013-02-05.
- From Darren Young (wrestler): "Darren Young". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-04-27.
- From Kane (wrestler): "Kane Bio". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-08-05.
- From Seth Rollins: "Seth Rollins". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved August 9, 2010.
- From Johnny Curtis: "Johnny Curtis". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-01-24.
- From Stephanie McMahon: "Stephanie McMahon Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-05-01.
- From Michael Hayes (wrestler): "Michael Hayes Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-05-03.
- From Evan Bourne: "Matt Sydal Bio". Online World of Wrestling.
- From Chris Hero: "Chris Hero". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved May 17, 2011.
- From Charles Robinson (referee): "Charles Robsinson Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-10-03.
- From Ariane Andrew: "OWW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved September 4, 2011.
- From Hornswoggle: "Hornswoggle Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-02-29.
- From Billy Gunn: "Kip James Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-04-18.
- From John Cena: "OWOW Profile". Online World of Wrestling.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|accesedate=
ignored (help) - From Curt Hawkins: "Curt Hawkins". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved May 20, 2010.
- From Tyson Kidd: "Tyson Kidd Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-05-02.
- From The Bella Twins: "The Bella Twins profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved March 31, 2009.
- From Brodie Lee: "Online World of Wrestling profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-05-31.
- From Mick Foley: "Mick Foley's profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-04-14.
- From Layla El: "Layla El". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 15 June 2009.
- From Terry Taylor: "Terry Taylor Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-09-22.
- From Alberto Del Rio: "Alberto Del Rio". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-08-30.
- From Pat Patterson (wrestler): "Pat Patterson's profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-04-28.
- From Dolph Ziggler: "Dolph Ziggler Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 27, 2008.
- From El Generico: "El Generico Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-10-11.
- From The Chickbusters: "A.J. Lee". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved September 11, 2010.
- From Heath Slater: "Heath Slater". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 12, 2011.
- From Drew McIntyre: "Online World of Wrestling retired 4 feb 2013 Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 21 March 2008.
{{cite web}}
: line feed character in|title=
at position 27 (help) - From Bill DeMott: "Bill DeMott". Online World of Wrestling. Archived from the original on 21 February 2009. Retrieved 2009-03-05.
{{cite web}}
: Unknown parameter|deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (help) - From Mike Dalton (wrestler): "OWOW Profile". OWOW. Retrieved 18 March 2012.
- From Daniel Bryan: "Daniel Bryan profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-03-26.
- From Hunico: "Hunico". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-08-10.
- From Booker T (wrestler): "Booker T profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-09-17.
- From Percy Watson: "OWOW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-06-06.
- From Trish Stratus: "Trish Stratus profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-03-02.
- From Místico: Online World of Wrestling. "Mistico Profile". Retrieved 2011-02-24.
- From Roddy Piper: "Roddy Piper Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-09-19.
- From Triple H: "Triple H Bio". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-08-30.
- From Aksana (wrestler): "Aksana". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-09-01.
- From Santino Marella: "Santino Marella's OWOW profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-07-30.
- From Jack Swagger: "Jack Swagger Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-01-28.
- From Dusty Rhodes (wrestler): "Dusty Rhodes' profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-06-07.
- From Ted DiBiase, Jr.: "Ted DiBiase Jr Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-05-02.
- From Matt Bloom: "Matt Bloom at Online World of Wrestling".
- From Brock Lesnar: "Brock Lesnar profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved April 22, 2007.
- From Yoshi Tatsu: "Profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2009-06-30.
- From Windham Rotunda: "Husky Harris profile". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved February 7, 2012.
- From Titus O'Neil: "Titus O'Neil". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2010-07-24.
- From Pac (wrestler): "OWOW profile".
- From Jimmy Snuka: "Jimmy Snuka Profile". Online World Of Wrestling. Retrieved 2011-03-14.
- From Ron Killings: "OWOW bio". Online World of Wrestling. Retrieved 2008-08-15.
- From Ryback (wrestler): "OWOW profile".
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:36, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:26, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Ashley Fliehr → Charlotte (wrestler) – She hasn't really wrestled as "Ashley Fliehr" or "Ashley Flair" from what I remember. All her notability has been as "Charlotte." GeicoHen (talk) 14:08, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Risky, but Support --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:01, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- WHOOO! Makes sense. She's more famous for being Flair's daughter than anything, but "Charlotte" is probably more commonly associated with Flair than the name "Fliehr" is. More importantly, it's the name she's done semi-notable things under. High school volleyball and being someone's relative don't count for much. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:33, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bayley (wrestler) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:15, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Move to Charlotte Flair?
Given the existence of other article names such as Naomi Knight and the recently-renamed Christian Cage, which have added the wrestlers' less commonly used character surnames in order to remove the need for the less concise (wrestler) disambiguation marker, would it possibly be a good idea to move Charlotte's article to outright become Charlotte Flair? I understand it's not quite the same deal, as Charlotte Flair has never been her official ring name at any point; however, she is openly acknowledged as Ric Flair's daughter as an integral part of the Charlotte persona, we know "Flair" is "Fliehr" re-spelled, and Charlotte Flair has become a common unofficial name to refer to her as to the point that even NXT commentators have slipped up and called her this on occasion. For that matter, it might be a good idea to do the same for Natalya and change her to Natalya Neidhart (which exists as a redirect), who has the added bonus of having her last name actually be used as part of the Natalya character name when she was originally introduced to the WWE main roster as well as on WWE.com in an article sourced from 2014. Thoughts? 73.204.231.72 (talk) 16:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- Absolutely not. You said it yourself: "Charlotte Flair has never been her official ring name at any point" -so she is no Christian Cage case - and neither part is her real name. That Ric Flair is clearly acknowledged as her father is beside the point as "The Rock" isn't filed under "Rock Johnson". Str1977 (talk) 15:00, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose As stated, not her real name and her character does not use her father's last name. - Kiraroshi1976 (talk) 17:54, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
2008 Arrest Details and Latimer Marriage Year
The text of the cited news story only mentions an "unidentified 22-year-old man", not Riki Johnson. Furthermore, was she actually married at this time (the entry says "then-husband")? If you search Fliehr at the Mecklenburg County Record Database (http://meckrod.manatron.com/Marriage/SearchEntry.aspx?e=newSession), it shows a marriage license between the two was dated May 2010; so (assuming that 2010 date is accurate) either (a) they were married somewhere else in 2008, divorced, then remarried in 2010, or (b) they weren't married in 2008.
Somewhat related, the Latimer marriage took place in 2013 (if that detail would help the entry) according to the Orange County Comptroller (again, search Fliehr at http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp). Dalton Imperial (talk) 15:09, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
The Queen
@TheBellaTwins1445: re your removal at special:diff/735897565
Assuming you watched Raw last night you must remember hearing Charlotte being called this. It is definitely a reliable change to introduce this nickname to her article.
I did not introduce any new sources. I cited ones we have already accepted. Please add back the information you removed from the page.
I realize the Bellas are sore about Charlotte ending Nikki's reign but that is no reason to go and remove her nicknames. Ranze (talk) 03:36, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- There is no source to reference so the removal was valid. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" (talk) 03:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- I aliased 3 sources already present on the page for it. I can find some new ones if you like. Ranze (talk) 04:48, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Ranze: knock it off dude. You've been through this process before. Stop adding unsourced, nonnotable nicknames for wrestlers. CrashUnderride 04:01, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- The nickname had 3 sources next to it, if you actually check the diff. It established notability going back for some time. One of Charlotte's moves is actually named after this nickname, it's clearly notable. Ranze (talk) 04:48, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- You put three sources next to it but none of them said that was her nickname.LM2000 (talk) 05:13, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- The nickname had 3 sources next to it, if you actually check the diff. It established notability going back for some time. One of Charlotte's moves is actually named after this nickname, it's clearly notable. Ranze (talk) 04:48, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
@LM2000: I will reproduce the 3 sources I originally expanded, here for you to read, along with explanations.
- "Views from the Hawke's Nest: NXT Takeover". 411MANIA. 8 June 2014.
Charlotte hit the Bow Down to the Queen
- This names one of her moves, BDttQ, clearly Charlotte is "the Queen" being bowed down to, in the move. It is a reinforcement of her nickname every time the announcers call the move. If this existed in isolation and Charlotte were some kind of monarchist then I could understand hesitation, but this links into the other sources...
- Trionfo, Richard (November 30, 2015). "WWE RAW REPORT: A NEW GROUP IS FORMED, IS THE QUEEN OF THE JUNGLE SHOWING HER TRUE STRIPES?, ARE THE NEW DAY TURNING INTO J&J SECURITY FOR SHEAMUS?, A FEW RETURNS, AND MORE". PWInsider. Retrieved November 30, 2015.
- The portion of the title "IS THE QUEEN OF THE JUNGLE SHOWING HER TRUE STRIPES?" refers to Charlotte feigning an injury then pinning Becky Lynch after her father distracted her. Who else do you think 'queen of the jungle' refers to here?
- Trionfo, Richard (June 23, 2016). "WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT: SETH ROLLINS MAKES AN OPEN CHALLENGE, THE BOSS OR THE QUEEN?, THE WYATTS MAKE A STATEMENT, AND MORE". Pro Wrestling Insider. Retrieved July 17, 2016.
- The title portion "THE BOSS OR THE QUEEN?" refers to the match between Sasha Banks (do you accept her nickname is "The Boss") and Charlotte. The article even includes this sentence if you bothered to read it: "Charlotte says the only statement that is going to be made is her bowing down to her. Sasha might be the Boss, but she is the Queen." I added this quote to the article's present citation of it.
Here too I will reproduce the 5 sources from WWE.com that you just removed in special:diff/735951179. I'm wondering if you even checked them before deleting them and demanding consensus, even though nobody had actually objected to them yet.
- Medalis, Kara A. (13 August 2014). "NXT Women's Champion Charlotte vs. Bayley".
Will Charlotte sustain her rule over the NXT Divas division and make Bayley "Bow Down to the Queen" at NXT TakeOver?
- As above, this is simply supporting the move, clearly "the Queen" in the move's name is Charlotte.
- Taylor, Scott (26 May 2015). "'The Four Horsewomen' of NXT: Sasha Banks, Charlotte, Bayley and Becky Lynch on how they're changing women's wrestling".
CHARLOTTE: Honestly, people ask all the time if we feel pressure to deliver, or do we feel pressure from people putting us in these positions. But I don't think any of us feel the pressure, just because we're able to lean on each other. I don't know how to explain it; you all know what I mean? Watch: .. The Queen vs. The Boss
- WWE here is supporting the phrase "The Queen vs. The Boss" for a Sasha/Charlotte match, nuff said.
- "Come at the Queen". 15 February 2016.
Brie's Divas Championship Match with Charlotte at WWE Fastlane has taken on new meaning .. Charlotte was free to build momentum with a second victory over Alicia Fox
- "the Queen" in the title is referring to Charlotte, challengers like Alicia Fox are coming at her
- "Sasha and Charlotte are on the move in the WWE Power Rankings". 16 July 2016.
- The evidence here is actually in the URL.
- Wortman, James (21 August 2016). "Charlotte def. WWE Women's Champion Sasha Banks".
The Boss bows to "the queen."
- The recent article on the summer slam win should really be the final nail in the coffin, you do understand who "the queen" is here, right?
What objections do you have to these five? I've presented overwhelming evidence here. Ranze (talk) 05:38, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- The references refer to the move. Do you think Bayley should be called "The Stunner" because a 411Mania headline once said: "Bayley Hits The Stunner"?LM2000 (talk) 05:53, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Ranze, just stop. You behavior and repeated additions of non-notable nicknames, disruptive editing and attempts to use sources that don't say anything about what your using them to source, will eventually get you blocked. CrashUnderride 06:36, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- @LM2000: knowing Ranze, they will want to start listing "The Stunner" as a nickname for Bayley. lol. CrashUnderride 06:37, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Ranze, just stop. You behavior and repeated additions of non-notable nicknames, disruptive editing and attempts to use sources that don't say anything about what your using them to source, will eventually get you blocked. CrashUnderride 06:36, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Ranze: Like I said before its unsourced. I have looked at every link you posted, ive read them carefully top to bottom, none of them refer to Queen being her nickname, just a move, which is the issue here. If you present something that says her nickname is now The Queen then im sure there will be no issue, until then it's a justified removal. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" (talk) 06:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
It's clear to me that the people objecting have not checked all of the sources. Perhaps you looked at one of the weaker ones and stopped there, not checking further.
@LM2000: only some of the sources do as you say. Ignore them if you'd like and focus on the ones which are clearly referring to Charlotte as "The Queen". For example here are two I'd like you to take a second look at:
- Trionfo, Richard (June 23, 2016). "WWE SMACKDOWN REPORT: SETH ROLLINS MAKES AN OPEN CHALLENGE, THE BOSS OR THE QUEEN?, THE WYATTS MAKE A STATEMENT, AND MORE". Pro Wrestling Insider. Retrieved July 17, 2016.
Charlotte says the only statement that is going to be made is her bowing down to her. Sasha might be the Boss, but she is the Queen.
- Wortman, James (21 August 2016). "Charlotte def. WWE Women's Champion Sasha Banks". WWE.com.
The Boss bows to "the queen."
This is not a new nickname though, it is using one that she's had for at least a year, as its incorporated into her move name. Ranze (talk) 09:31, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
@Crash Underride: when you are done telling jokes, feel free to look at sources like the one above. My adding proof is not disruptive. This nickname is notable. These sources all support "The Queen" connected with Charlotte, some more clearly than others. Please stop engaging in false accusations. Ranze (talk) 09:31, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
@WarMachineWildThing: "its unsourced" is incorrect, I just listed sources for you, and I included sources each time I added it. Chris/WMWT you clearly missed something. Are you expecting the word "nickname" to be used? Look at the two sources I re-posted for LM2000 again please. Ranze (talk) 09:31, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Her finishing move is literally called "Bow to the Queen" and those sources all have to word "bow" shortly followed by the word "queen".LM2000 (talk) 10:02, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
WP:AGF is becoming difficult when you engage in misleading wordplay like this. Review the following sentence:
- Charlotte says the only statement that is going to be made is her bowing down to her. Sasha might be the Boss, but she is the Queen.
Is it a nod to her finishing move? Sure, but it's still referring to Charlotte as being the queen. Having your nickname incorporated into one of your moves is common enough. Edge (wrestler) has the "Edgecution" for example.
Your saying "shortly followed by" is misleading because while "to the" is short, "-ing down to her. Sasha might be the Boss but she is" isn't particularly short. Plus that's "Bowing" not "Bow".
Also considering this:
- The Boss bows to “the queen.”
Even if this is still a nod to Charlotte's move name, her move is not named "the queen", so Sasha is not bowing to Charlotte's finisher, she's bowing to Charlotte, aka "The Queen".
Where is "bow" in these four?
- Taylor, Scott (26 May 2015). "'The Four Horsewomen' of NXT: Sasha Banks, Charlotte, Bayley and Becky Lynch on how they're changing women's wrestling".
CHARLOTTE: Honestly, people ask all the time if we feel pressure to deliver, or do we feel pressure from people putting us in these positions. But I don't think any of us feel the pressure, just because we're able to lean on each other. I don't know how to explain it; you all know what I mean? Watch: .. The Queen vs. The Boss
- Trionfo, Richard (November 30, 2015). "WWE RAW REPORT: A NEW GROUP IS FORMED, IS THE QUEEN OF THE JUNGLE SHOWING HER TRUE STRIPES?, ARE THE NEW DAY TURNING INTO J&J SECURITY FOR SHEAMUS?, A FEW RETURNS, AND MORE". PWInsider. p. 3. Retrieved November 30, 2015.
Charlotte appears to have hurt her ankle. Charlotte kips up and she gets the rollup and three count while Ric distracts Becky.
- "Come at the Queen". 15 February 2016.
Brie's Divas Championship Match with Charlotte at WWE Fastlane has taken on new meaning .. Charlotte was free to build momentum with a second victory over Alicia Fox
- "Sasha and Charlotte are on the move in the WWE Power Rankings". 16 July 2016.
the-boss-and-the-queen-are-on-the-move-in-the-wwe-power-rankings
I don't see "bow" in these. Just "The Queen" consistently being used to refer to Charlotte from May 2015 to July 2016. Ranze (talk) 10:22, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Here's some more:
- Lozanova, Dela (2015). "3 Changes The WWE Divas Division Desperately Needs".
Bring Queen Charlotte Back .. On NXT, Charlotte was the Queen .. The only way to fix this issue is to bring Queen Charlotte back.
- "Charlotte". WWE.com.
Watch: The Queen and The Boss clash in title classic
- this is a promotional phrased used to link to http://www.wwe.com/videos/wwe-network-sasha-banks-vs-charlotte-wwe-womens-title-match-summerslam-2016
- if you click the Twitter icon to the left of it it sends out a tweet like this one: https://twitter.com/Wayne_JClark/status/767725615483129857 note the automated text
- @RicFlairNatrBoy (4 December 2014). "THE QUEEN IS COMING HOME! @MsCharlotteWWE will be in Columbia, SC Friday (Dec 5), Augusta, GA Saturday (Dec 6), & Charlotte Sunday (Dec 7)!" (Tweet). Archived from the original on 24 August 2016 – via Twitter.
- Here you can see Ric Flair calling her THE QUEEN in December 2014. It clearly was being used in NXT for her, it's nothing new.
- "Charlotte shared WWE Raw's video. August 22 at 4:47pm".
The WWE Women's Championship is now fit for A QUEEN!
- "Charlotte shared WWE's video. August 22 at 2:00am".
See, The Queen doesn't need ANYBODY!
- "Charlotte August 21 at 4:43pm".
The Queen will RECLAIM her throne TONIGHT at WWE SummerSlam...
Is all this going to be dismissed too? Ranze (talk) 10:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- I call myself King but that doesn't make it my nickname. I reclaim my throne when I come home from work, doesn't make me king. Nothing says it's a nickname, sorry don't see it can't agree with it. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" (talk) 11:05, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Chris please stop addressing sources in isolation. I'm not making an argument to call Charlotte "The Queen" just because she does that. In addition to her, Ric Flair calls her that, WWE.com articles call her that, announcers call her that, and third party reviewers call her that. What special kind of criteria besides these types do you tend to rely on to support nicknames for wrestlers? Ranze (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- I have problems with most of your sources, from those that are directly describing her hitting her finishing move, to those that probably are talking about Sasha Banks taking it (every source that says Boss vs Queen). The source from this diff, I think, is the strongest one you've provided so far actually. It is third party, reliable and quotes her directly talking about herself. This could be, and has been so far, dismissed as an offhand remark rather than a reoccurring nickname though. I'm interested to hear what others besides Chris and I think of the Twitter and Facebook sources Ranze provided and to see if those clarify that "The Queen" is truly a nickname.LM2000 (talk) 12:04, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- LM2000 do you really "The Boss vs The Queen" is referring to "Sasha versus Charlotte's finishing move" instead of "Sasha vs Charlotte"? Really? Have you ever heard the "Bow Down To The Queen" shortened to "The Queen"? If that move was ever going to be abbreviated it would be to "Bown Down" since that is the action-verb of the move and "the queen" is merely providing context as to who the victim is bowing down to (Charlotte). Thank you for acknowledging at least one of these sources. Facebook/Twitter are just to provide additional references, the best source is probably the statements directly on WWE.com referring to her as The Queen. Ranze (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Ranze: let's go through this again, earlier this year, you created a re-direct for Dean Ambrose from Iron Man of the WWE. The re-direct was deleted, because why? Oh yeah, just like this, Dean called himself that, ONE TIME. The name of a move means jack @#%$ until the name is applied to the wrestler, on a regular basis. I would be fine with the name being added, if only he ad become a regular name first and you wouldn't hear it and say "Hey, I gotta add this to Wikipedia before someone else" after only one reference. CrashUnderride 15:53, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Crash this is not an appropriate place for you to vent your personal vendetta against me that is leading you to disrupt this article. You are making false statements to support your narrative here and I think you should recuse yourself until you've actually checked the references and/or are willing to be honest about their contents. I've supplied about a dozen references by this point, not "one" as you incorrectly state. Charlotte refers to herself repeatedly as 'the queen' on her official facebook, WWE.com refers to her repeatedly as 'the queen' in pages I have linked above, third party reviewers also call her this. Ranze (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- Wha, wha wha, every critizims and attack. Grow up, follow the guidlines and stop your disruptive edits. CrashUnderride 01:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Oh and @Ranze: my only "vendetta" against you is when you instance to include "nicknames" that aren't notable and names that are obscure Talk:Cameron (wrestler)#Requested move 22 August 2016 and your constant lying by providing "sources" that mention nothing about what your using them to source. So there, that's my "vendetta" for everyone to see. Now please, stop whining and crying and provide the proper sources. CrashUnderride 01:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Wha, wha wha, every critizims and attack. Grow up, follow the guidlines and stop your disruptive edits. CrashUnderride 01:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Crash this is not an appropriate place for you to vent your personal vendetta against me that is leading you to disrupt this article. You are making false statements to support your narrative here and I think you should recuse yourself until you've actually checked the references and/or are willing to be honest about their contents. I've supplied about a dozen references by this point, not "one" as you incorrectly state. Charlotte refers to herself repeatedly as 'the queen' on her official facebook, WWE.com refers to her repeatedly as 'the queen' in pages I have linked above, third party reviewers also call her this. Ranze (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
@Crash Underride: you are disrupting the process of community discussion by mischaracterizing the sources I'm giving you. This is not an appropiate place to make personal attacks on me. Cameron's full name and Dean Ambrose's nicknames have nothing to do with Charlotte (wrestler). You can bring that up on the wikiproject or complain about it to admins or something.
I have provided proper sources, and those who have opted to honestly review them like LM2000 have acknowledged this even if still on the fence as to whether we agree on their importance. If you invite any third parties to come evaluate these sources they will plainly see that every source I've introduced is related to the association between Charlotte and "The Queen". Some indirectly (the ones referencing the "Bown Down to the Queen" move) and some directly (Charlotte being called "The Queen").
I have never lied here, and if you get that impression, you may not understand the context in which I have presented some of the sources, such as the indirect-support 'bown down' couple. Ranze (talk) 01:47, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- Well here's how we can stop these situations from arising; wait and see if a nickname stays before rushing to add it like you have with Iron Man of the WWE and (how it's a redirect is beyond me) Radical Mongoose. Only then will I WP:AGF when it comes to you. So, yes, when I see you've editted a page I cringe and expect you to have added information that's not notable. CrashUnderride 01:53, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Marriage references
I have introduced a couple template:unreliable source? templates to the date ranges given here and I don't think they should be removed until we have updated out sources. We presently do have sources but they do not support all the numbers given.
The side template says (m. 2010; div. 2012) for Johnson and (m. 2013; div. 2015) for Latimer. Both are probably true. I assume good faith and whoever added them probably did get them from a reliable source but just didn't include it.
The sources we actually include which mention the marriage are these:
- Aquino, Denise (July 26, 2015). "5 Things You Probably Didn't Know About Charlotte Flair". Geekend Gladiators.
Charlotte was married to Riki Johnson. The couple got married in North Carolina last May 2010 .. Right now, she is still currently married to Thomas Raymond Latimer
- Ahmed, Tufayel (October 6, 2014). "TNA Wrestling's Bram on his famous father in-law Ric Flair: 'It's not something you think about, it feels normal'". Daily Mirror. Retrieved October 16, 2014.
- Johnson, Mike (November 3, 2015). "Charlotte-Bram update". Pro Wrestling Insider. Retrieved November 3, 2015.
That divorce was finalized in the State of Florida on 10/29.
The first source affirms the month/year she married Johnson but does not mention what year they divorced. We still need a source to affirm that they divorced in 2012.
The second and first source affirms that she was presently married to Latimer during the time of each article's publication (October 2014 and July 2015) but neither mentions when they got married, we still need a source affirming that 2013 was the year they were married.
The third source affirms the date that she and Latimer were divorced (October 2015) but nothing about when the marriage began, or when she and Johnson divorced.
So basically, we need sources to support the "divorced Johnson 2012" and the "married Latimer 2013" stats. If this data is presently available in a reference currently here then we need to alias it and cite it. Only the "married Johnson 2010" and "divorced Latimer 2015" stats are supported right now by the cites. Ranze (talk) 19:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Update: @Dalton Imperial: was right about the Orange Country Compttroller, I just added that to support the 2013 marriage to Latimer, now the only source missing is the 2012 divorce date to Johnson. Perhaps if we could find out what state it happened in we could find a similar Comptroller log for it? Ranze (talk) 20:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
If I am reading these correctly all that is missing is the divorce from Johnson. So if we were to break everything down she could have divorced him anytime between 2010 and 2013. Am I correct in assuming that it is not known where they were living when married, alot of divorces can be found in court records if we knew what state. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" (talk) 22:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Requested move 29 October 2016
![]() | The request to rename this article to Charlotte Flair has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag. |
Charlotte (wrestler) → Charlotte Flair – As with Natalya Neidhart, WP:NATDAB would have applied anyway, but should be moved per WP:NAMECHANGES as this is what she is being billed as now.[1] LM2000 (talk) 20:45, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support as nominator.LM2000 (talk) 20:53, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose. It is neither her real surname (as opposed to Natalya's surname) nor is it (maybe not yet, maybe not ever) her established ring name. Why this compulsion to immediately jump because WWE coughed a few times? She still is known better as simply "Charlotte". Str1977 (talk) 21:04, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
- WWE establishes it as her ring name. Maybe we should wait till media calls her "Flair". This will be similar when Emmalina returns. --wL<speak·check> 22:06, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
- It remains to be seen. WWE has flip-flopped before. But, of course, WP must be quicker. Str1977 (talk) 22:13, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose - She's known as Charlotte atm so we should stick with it until sources and the media state otherwise. –Davey2010Talk 00:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- She's actually being billed as "Charlotte Flair" now, as shown on WWE.com and reflected by ESPN, Wrestling Observer, Uproxx, among others.LM2000 (talk) 00:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- She actually was introduced as simply "Charlotte" at Hell In A Cell, which IMO counts more than a few interns at WWE.com adding the surname and a couple of sites reporting on wrestling parroting that. Str1977 (talk) 14:15, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
SUPPORT It was on numerous sites that she was adding Flair to her name. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" Talk to me 08:42, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support - I can't find any reasons to oppose since the sources of the above are enough to justify the move. Nickag989talk 15:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose until Hell in a Cell (2016), we need in-ring confirmation, so to speak, that she is changing her ring name for good. JTP (talk • contribs) 16:56, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose I agree with JTP I posted something similar her name change is in her page body Flair will eventually be dropped over time. 47.202.27.147 (talk) 17:05, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- That's not what I said. I said that we need confirmation, such as a Hell in a Cell results page or the ring announcer to call her "Charlotte Flair." I didn't say that it'll be dropped over time. JTP (talk • contribs) 20:23, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- I Said I posted something similar to your posting so I was unable to save it. My finding is that Flair will be used for a short time and later on be dropped we know she is Ric Flair's daughter and if Flair is used she will be living in her father's shadow. 47.202.27.147 (talk) 23:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose because she has been known mononymously as Charlotte since the start of her career. Flair isn't legally her last name. The ring name Charlotte Flair has only been used for less than a week. Wait until that name is more known than the Charlotte mononym if it ends up becoming her ring name for the long run. DantODB (talk) 01:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Charlotte already dropped the Flair moniker at Hell in a Cell. DantODB (talk) 03:21, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Robe said Flair, boots had CF on them. WWE.com still says Charlotte Flair. Wiki is founded on sources and the Main source says otherwise. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" Talk to me 03:32, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Robe has said Flair since Wrestlemania. The "Charlotte Flair" name has only been used a week, that is if it continues. WWE.com still has Lilian Garcia listed as a Superstar. DantODB (talk) 03:53, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Robe said Flair, boots had CF on them. WWE.com still says Charlotte Flair. Wiki is founded on sources and the Main source says otherwise. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" Talk to me 03:32, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Charlotte already dropped the Flair moniker at Hell in a Cell. DantODB (talk) 03:21, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I brought this here because the page was moved back and forth several times, so I thought this would be a closer !vote. I get a WP:TOOSOON argument, the fictional last name argument not so much. I use Natalya Neidhart as an example because she was rarely called this; Neidhart is a real last name, "Natalya" is a fictional name, yet we went with that current title because of WP:NATDAB and to avoid disambigulators. Her wrestling family background is central to her gimmick and is mentioned constantly, as is the same with Charlotte. This is totally different from Naomi Knight and Cameron Lynn, whose kayfabe surnames were rarely mentioned and became too obscure to be used in the article titles.LM2000 (talk) 03:43, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose per all who oppose. 97.95.68.240 (talk) 10:34, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support as per WWE.com, which shows her ring name as Charlotte Flair. Jay Coop · Talk · Contributions 18:29, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support. It's most definitely being used now, even noted by non-WWE sources, and is a great way to avoid a parenthetical disambiguation, which we should if we can, provided the natural diambiguation is not obscure. This isn't; people (outside WWE) were already calling her "Charlotte Flair" months ago. oknazevad (talk) 19:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Let's wait and see how this plays out first. Too early to tell if this will be her primary ring name going forward. Or if it will catch on. Idenitor (talk) 22:56, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Similar to Natalya Neidhart, the name is not obscure and unusual (in contrast to Naomi Knight and Cameron Lynn) and is used due to WP:NATDAB to avoid disambig. Sekyaw (talk) 11:22, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose The name change should wait until it is confirmed via on RAW that she is offically changing her in-ring name to Charlotte Flair. All I've heard is Charlotte being referred to as Charlotte Flair by the commentators, therefore it's not an officially change. MSMRHurricane (talk) 18:11, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- It is official. They began using "Charlotte Flair" on television and all social media since Hell in a Cell. Sekyaw (talk) 02:50, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- No it's not. The graphic when she won the title just said "Charlotte" and on Raw, the announcers just said "Charlotte" and NOT "Charlotte Flair". I don't think they know what to do just yet. Idenitor (talk) 07:58, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- It is clearly official. WWE changed all of her info, such as her official WWE.com page and other WWE.com articles [2][3][4][5] as well as on other official social media sites after her HIAC win. Sekyaw (talk) 23:27, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- No it is not "clearly official", at least yet. A few web mentions isn't the end-all be-all. Let's wait and see if WWE uses the name on-screen or if the announcers say it regularly. There's no harm in keeping the page name as it is for now. Idenitor (talk) 01:02, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- It is clearly official. WWE changed all of her info, such as her official WWE.com page and other WWE.com articles [2][3][4][5] as well as on other official social media sites after her HIAC win. Sekyaw (talk) 23:27, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- No it's not. The graphic when she won the title just said "Charlotte" and on Raw, the announcers just said "Charlotte" and NOT "Charlotte Flair". I don't think they know what to do just yet. Idenitor (talk) 07:58, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- It is official. They began using "Charlotte Flair" on television and all social media since Hell in a Cell. Sekyaw (talk) 02:50, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
WWE.com is a main source, Wikipedia is founded on sources. The fact there are so many solid sources and this is still going on is insane. Chris "WarMachineWildThing" Talk to me 02:05, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- One thing I missed, but Silverfish pointed out on Talk:Hell in a Cell (2016), was that her official social media accounts are using the full name: [6], [7], [8]. There seems to be little doubt that this is the full name of the wrestling character. I'm not sure if it matters that they don't call her by her first and last name every time she comes to the ring.LM2000 (talk) 02:11, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- This is like Xavier Woods still saying "…your WWE World Tag Team Champions," even though the championship is referred to as the Raw Tag Team Championship now. Jay Coop · Talk · Contributions 05:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- If you think WWE.com, which is primarily in-universe/fictional ongoings is a reliable/main source, then you have a lot to learn about how research works. Idenitor (talk) 16:28, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- @Idenitor: Please read WP:PW/RS. WWE.com is a reliable source. Jay Coop · Talk · Contributions 19:34, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
SUPPORT Should already be moved, but to add my two cents, essentially all official sources are using "Charlotte Flair" now, including WWE themselves (as noted multiple times above). They've gone as far as listing her as "Charlotte Flair" on the Raw Women's Championship title history, even for her first two reigns when she was just "Charlotte". The argument that the announcers haven't called her "Charlotte Flair" is silly. Ring announcers often use the short name. --JDC808 ♫ 04:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC) Support It's been made official that her name is Charlotte Flair.
Add Bow Down to The Queen as the NXT name for Natural Selection
It was the name of her somersault cutter on from her NXT debut and at least until she won the NXT Women's Championship at NXT Takeover. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grizzexploder (talk • contribs) 09:40, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
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