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September 13

Reverse sunk cost fallacy?

I wonder whether I an experiencing a sort of reverse sunk cost fallacy. A while a go I bought a very cheap car for my daughter to practice driving while learning and hopefully for the first year when insurance on all but lowest insurance groups is expensive. I spent X on the purchase and then another 10% on new tyres, which I thought was reasonable if it lasted 6 months and good if it lasts a year. Six months on it is due for an MOT (UK vehicle test), and needs almost X spent on it again to pass. I have a feeling "I will have spent 2X on this car and that's a lot for an old car, perhaps its time to look for a newer one. Logically though if I were in a position now when someone offered me a repaired car with newish tyres and a 12 month MOT for price X i'd think it a very good deal. Am I experiencing a reverse Sunk cost fallacy? I can't get over the strong feeling that I shouldn't get the car repaired even though logically it seems like a good deal-- Q Chris (talk) 11:33, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Can you find a newer and hopefully better car with a 12 month MOT for less than 2X in six months? Otherwise I would get this one repaired. 194.174.73.80 (talk) 12:38, 13 September 2018 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin

And that is an example of what I think is the reverse sunk cost fallacy. The actual test would be "Can you find a newer and hopefully better car with a 12 month MOT for less than X", the first "X + 10%" is already sunk! -- Q Chris (talk) 12:42, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

So there would be 3 possible situations?

1. Sunk cost is included to bias in favour of investing more in the current state (sunk cost fallacy)

2. Future costs estimates are the only cost input into the decision (pure rational)

3. Sunk cost is included to bias against investing more in the current state (reverse sunk cost fallacy)

I'd say, Q Chris, that you are making sense, if that is what you mean. Not sure if it has been studied by academics in psychology, like the sunk cost fallacy has, though. --Lgriot (talk) 14:48, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

You are right, the test should be "less than X" and not "less than 2X": if I only can find another car for e.g. 1.5X but not less, I should probably keep the old one. Except the newer car is so much better that I can anticipate it will spare me much trouble in comparison with the older car. On the other hand: the old car I know well while with the new one I risk some hidden quirks will make me curse the day we met. In this case the new car should cost substantially less than X (Another case of half full vs. half empty?). 194.174.73.80 (talk) 14:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin

Q Chris, consider that most cars need X spent on them on a regular basis. If they're old and cheap, it's for an MOT fixup/bribery (depending on your country of residence). If they're old and expensive, it's for extra expensive parts as part of regular maintenance (or worse, if it's in the "old and cheap" car's shape), and if they're new/ish you might not be spending much, but that could be one way to think about the cost of depreciation, and it will come to bite you back in your rear if you skimp on little things like transmission oil, like many people do. If you know what parts are the most likely future money sinks, that the car has never crumpled any crumple zones, and that your daughter likes the car, keep it. 93.136.126.233 (talk) 19:35, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

The general fallacy here is that people think "A 20k car costs me X per year, so a 1k car should cost me not a lot more than X/20". They fail to realize how much of the cost of car ownership doesn't scale with the car's value. I'm not sure what that fallacy is called. 93.136.126.233 (talk) 19:37, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

September 14

Identification of statues

I was recently visiting an university for some academic work and I came across a fascinating installation.Does anybody have any idea as to it's depiction and/or it's meaning? I tried to find some plaque (for the purpose) but in vain.∯WBG^converse 13:01, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

According to the file name of this other image at Commons, it's called Integrity and is by someone named Debabrata Chakraborty. I'm not finding much else about the installation or the sculptor on the Web. Deor (talk) 13:55, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Half full Half empty

Already posted on Humanities desk.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why is this funny? Which psychological mechanism is taking part? Which theory of humor is applicable? Etan J. Tal(talk) 22:11, 14 September 2018 (UTC) Who says it's meant to be funny? I don't find it funny. Just sort of decorative. †dismas†|(talk) 22:17, 14 September 2018 (UTC) Which of the two markings is informative depends whether the reader is the barman or the drinker. There is a titillating sense of Paradox in the notion that being half-way through emptying can be indistinguishable from being half-way through filling, which may be called an example of Dialetheism. DroneB (talk) 22:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

September 15

Unknown lettering on penknife

I recently purchased this penknife and would be grateful if anyone is able to tell me the meaning of the lettering on the knife. Additionally I am puzzled by the curious shape of one of the blades, what might be the purpose of that? With anticipatory thanks. Richard Avery (talk) 06:54, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

The monogram near the hinge looks Cyrillic - a D and a V. DuncanHill (talk) 11:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Odd Blade, either a crown bottle opener or for taking stones out of horses hooves.194.126.80.63 (talk) 13:17, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it would work on crown caps. Could be a type of sheep's foot (a blade used to trim sheep's feet). DuncanHill (talk) 13:21, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Agree on Cyrillic. The first character in what looks like a serial number is also Cyrillic. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions, It was purchased from Latvia so Cyrillic lettering is not surprising.Richard Avery (talk) 07:11, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, but just to note that Latvian has always been written using the Roman alphabet. 2A00:23C1:CD83:1F01:D536:2A6C:D8F2:9746 (talk) 09:41, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but when Latvia was part of the Soviet Union, Russian would have been prevalent as well. See Languages of the Soviet Union, which also notes that after 1937, there was a concerted effort to both a) write all languages in the USSR in Cyrillic and b) spread Russian throughout the Soviet Union. --Jayron32 11:14, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

That lettering is price. (ц 1р60к)(1,60) -Yyy (talk) 09:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

The Russian word for price is цена, so I'm guessing the first letter is an abbreviation of it. The Cyrillic "r" looks like a "p", so "Price one rouble sixty kopeks". 92.31.140.53 (talk) 13:17, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

York sidewalk glass button

A glass button in York sidewalk.

What is the function of this glass button in York sidewalk? It is about 3 cms in diameter. It might have been used for some communication device, but now obsolete. Etan J. Tal^(talk) 11:01, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

They marked the old 'Breadcrumbs' trails. It was a scheme by the city to get people visiting the sights in an interactive way - see [1][2][3][4]. You can still buy the book on Amazon. Nanonic (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! Etan J. Tal^(talk) 11:32, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Where is the original Japanese copy of the WWII surrender?

In the article Japanese Instrument of Surrender, it says that a replica of the Japanese version of the surrender document is on display. Where is the original? RudolfRed (talk) 21:08, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Diplomatic Record Office of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Japan) -- now called Diplomatic Archives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan; per file description: file:Japan Instrument of Surrender 2 September 1945.jpg 107.15.157.44 (talk) 23:01, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! RudolfRed (talk) 02:22, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

September 17

Evolution

I've recently read in a pseudo-scientific text that a few non-mainstream scientists claim humans evolved into chimps, or that the common ancestor of chimps and humans resembled the latter much more than the former.

I'm laughing my ass off right now, has any scientist actually cobsidered this because I can't find any? Makuta Makaveli (talk) 19:31, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

You might find the article Chimpanzee–human last common ancestor of interest. The first two of the assertions you mention does not seem to be supported by much evidence (although it might have seemed more plausible years or decades ago when various discoveries had not yet been made).

The second is more difficult to assess, because it depends what is meant by "resemble." Both humans and chimpanzees/bobobos have, of course, evolved over the same time period, and arguably "as much, but differently" since the (rather drawn-out) split, through being selected by the different and changing ecological niches which each came to prefer. I've certainly seen a few passing suggestions in the serious scientific literature that chimps/bonobos have changed in broad appearance somewhat more that humans, but the dearth of "proto-chimp" fossils, due to their initial and increasing specialisation in more heavily forested habitats (where fossils more rarely form) means we don't yet have nearly as much evidence as we would like. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.172.36 (talk) 19:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Many of the humans that I know must have come from asses!194.126.80.63 (talk) 10:51, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

[[5]] might be of interest, as a suggested possible candidate for the last common ancestor. There is an artist's impression based on a skull - I leave it to you to decide, on the basis of the people you know, whether it is closer to human or chimp. Wymspen (talk) 10:29, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

September 18

Is there a district in Moscow called Kievskaya?

Or is it just the name of a metro station, i.e. would it make sense to say 'I lived in Kievskaya'? Ericoides (talk) 13:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

There's Kievsky Vokzal, the Kiev Station, which is one of the major train stations in Moscow, after which the Kiyevskaya metro station is named. The district around those could be called Kievskaya, although it's not its official name (it's part of Dorogomilovo District). --Xuxl (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, but are you saying that it "could be called Kievskaya" as a matter of fact or speculation? In other words, is it in use in ordinary Muscovite language as a place? So for example if you said, "I live in St Pancras," most Londoners would think you lived in the railway station of that name. Ericoides (talk) 16:54, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think this is right, Ericoides. It's many years since I was a Londoner, but I certainly wouldn't interpret "I live in St Pancras" in that way. St Pancras, London indicates that it is more limited than it used to be, but still more than just the station. --ColinFine (talk) 22:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Colin! I stand corrected. Can you think of a London example for my point? St P was the best I could come up with, looking at a Tube map. Ericoides (talk) 05:13, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Not sure I can, Ericoides. Most London station names are either streets or districts. (Even Victoria, which started out as purely the station name, is now a district). Perhaps Embankment? "I live in Embankment" sounds very odd to me. --ColinFine (talk) 10:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

I can't imagine anyone saying they live in Monument, and saying they lived in Mansion House would suggest they were the Lord Mayor. And there's always City Thameslink. Warofdreams talk 10:16, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Liverpool Street, which to 99% of people would mean the station, yet, of course, one could quite possibly be dwelling in. —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 10:25, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

(The term 'Vokzal' supposedly comes from Vauxhall station...) Hayttom (talk) 11:55, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

You might try a search for Ки́евская (it would help if you know Russian, which I don't); or, you could simply say "I live near Kievskaya"; presumably Muscovites would understand. 2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 18:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Kievskaya, being feminine, refers to the metro station, and is used by locals to designate the area around the station. You would say something like I lived "near Kievskaya" or "around Kievskaya", not in Kievskaya, as it's not a formal district of Moscow. There's no administrative unit smaller than district, but it's still useful to have a more precise designation than Dorogomilovo, which is pretty large. --Xuxl (talk) 19:22, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

it might be idiomatic to say "v rayone metro Kievskaya". Here, "v rayone" just means "in the vicinity of" (can also be used for amounts etc) even though Kievskaya is not, itself, a rayon (district.) Maybe this explains OP's confusion. It's borderline-ok to say "v rayone Kievskoy" but then it's unclear whether you mean the street or the metro station as both are feminine Aecho6Ee (talk) 23:30, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

There are a number of theories Vauxhall#In the Russian language. See also [6] and [7]. I just today learned of the existence of IBM railway station, whose derivation is obvious. 92.31.140.53 (talk) 15:21, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

September 19

Wine bottle corks

Hello. I'd like to ask what exactly one is supposed to do with the cork of a wine bottle once one has removed it? Is one supposed to put it back in the wine bottle after one has poured some wine, or can it just be thrown out? Are there any official recommendations about this from wine manufacturers? Thanks. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 07:04, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Replace the cork if you can, but it may have swelled out. If you're not going to finish the wine straight away, it is better to use a rubber "wine saver" (Google it).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:44, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

How to replace a wine cork [[8]] It also explains when you should not re-use the original cork. Wymspen (talk) 10:34, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Wine bottles aren't single serving? --Jayron32 11:05, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Used Wine Corks are often too damaged by the Corkscrew to remain an airtight Bung for bottling of wines, but they are sold for use in craft projects like wine cork wreaths, wine corks boards and keeping bugs off Australian Ockers. The following scenario left an open question: A diner orders and pays for a bottle of wine brought to his table at a restaurant where he expects to meet his date, who does not turn up. He tells the waiter that this leaves him with twice as much wine as he cares to drink at one meal, and asks to have the cork so that he can take home the remaining wine. The waiter (where this actually happened) protests that the restaurant cannot allow this because to do so would violate their state liquor license which permits "only to serve, not to sell, wine". In the event that I know of, this legal objection was made to vanish by magic means To Insure Prompt Service. DroneB (talk) 11:08, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Stelvin caps solve the problem nicely, as does the goon bag. --TrogWoolley (talk) 11:42, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Flags in Hunting

May anyone know why flags are used in hunting? Thanks. Omidinist (talk) 12:15, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Does this answer your question? --Jayron32 12:24, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes. Thank you, Jayron. Omidinist (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Correct location of Wagah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah states that Wagah is in Pakistan, not in India. This is false since according to Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wagah/@31.604757,74.5719473,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x391912bcf27f495d:0x325315a52b19a1a9!8m2!3d31.604757!4d74.574136), Wagah is in India and Pakistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.220.33 (talk) 14:05, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

This issue should be discussed at Talk:Wagah, and not here, since the correct place to discuss problems with articles is article talk pages. --Jayron32 14:08, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Uber seatbelts

I'm in a bit of a bad mood right now because I feel that my life has been put at risk.

I often ride with Uber where I live in Kyiv. The standard of traffic, cars, and drivers in Kyiv is not what can be expected in the rest of Europe, and every few days I ride with Uber and sometimes I feel I'm in real danger. I would feel much better if I had a nice tight seat belt (and it would be good if the driver wore one because they can prevent secondary accidents) but these are not always provided.

This page from Avis car rentals says that "It is compulsory for all inside the vehicle to wear a seatbelt [in Ukraine]." I'm not a lawyer and I'm not asking for legal advice but I infer that it is also compulsory for vehicles to have seat belts.

Uber's feedback options have no provision for complaining that an Uber car doesn't have seat belts. (It does have really good provision for complaining about driver performance.) My actual question is a starting point for further action:

Does Uber say anywhere that drivers' cars should have seat belts? I can't find it on their site. If not, how can I discuss it with them? The site seems to be designed to discourage new topics.

Hayttom (talk) 19:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hayttom: The Uber website help page [9] says you can ask questions via the app or Twitter. This page I found via Google implies that there is a seat belt law but it is widely ignored [10] RudolfRed (talk) 20:03, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

If they won't do anything about it, you could consider wearing a motorcycle helmet while you're riding. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:01, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Put "driver failed to provide a vehicle with adequate safety devices" under driver review. --Khajidha (talk) 22:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

And then beware of assassins. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:44, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you all. I found the place in the app for complaining that there were no seat belts. I hope I don't get blacklisted. Hayttom (talk) 05:44, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Resolved

While this isn't legal advice, note that per Seat belt legislation, the existence of legislation making it compulsory to wear seat belts if they are fitted doesn't mean it's compulsory for all cars to have them. It's very common that legislation for safety devices grandfathers in existing vehicles given the cost etc of installing them after manufacture. Seat belts are generally easier to install than say airbags, still this often happened. Legislation requiring rear seat belts are fitted generally predates legislation requiring they are worn, and in many developed countries the legislation requiring them to be fitted is in the 1980s or earlier so very few current vehicles can legally not have them. In fact, they may now require them of most vehicles or there may even be standards requiring improvements depends on cost e.g. [11]. But in the developing world, things may be different e.g. our article suggests it was 2002 in India, with no mention of it ever applying to vehicles which aren't new. I have no idea where Ukraine fits into this. Whatever the requirement for general private vehicles, many countries have additional requirements for passenger service vehicles. However while Uber sets their own standards, they generally seem to feel that they can ignore any legal standards especially those specific to passenger service vehicles that they don't agree with. Nil Einne (talk) 13:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

September 20

Harassed by a congressional candidate

I am getting one or two calls every day from people wanting me to vote for Gil Cisneros for Congress. I have asked them to put me on their do not call list, but the calls keep coming. I do need to answer the phone because I am on a hot project and my customer needs to reach me. Any suggestions? --Guy Macon (talk) 02:52, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Is it a live call or a robocall? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:03, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Live. Plenty of fresh faced volunteers working hard to hand Trump a democratic congress (I have no love for politicians on either side). --Guy Macon (talk) 03:18, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Caller ID. MarnetteD|Talk 03:08, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I probably should get a caller ID box, but that still leaves me hearing the phone ring and looking at the caller ID - not much of a time saving over hanging up as soon as I start hearing the political pitch. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:18, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

That would depend on what you're using the caller ID for. If the political calls always come from a number or range of numbers, with digital phones (e.g. DECT) you should be able to block the caller so it never gets through. If for some reason you need to use an analog phone, it'll be more difficult although you should be able to find a provider who'd let you block the number on their end. If the political calls hide their numbers or come from too many different numbers to block this won't work. If you can be sure of the number of the person who will call you, you could simply whitelist their number but I suspect many people who are awaiting a customer call can't use a whitelist. Nil Einne (talk) 13:26, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Block the number. The procedure varies, but usually you just go into call log, find the number you want to block; from there it might vary, but tap (or select) the number, and one of the options should be something like "Block Caller". WikiHow has "4 Ways to Block a Call", there are also apps for that (no idea if they're any good). 107.15.157.44 (talk) 03:58, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

What if you tell the caller that you will vote for the candidate who calls you the least? Hayttom (talk) 05:46, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Did that. Although I have zero intention of voting for either of them, I have told several of the volunteers making the calls "I asked you to stop calling me and you didn't, so I am supporting Young Kim (his republican opponent). Made no difference. --Guy Macon (talk) 08:40, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

There are various things you could try, depending on how much abuse you want to heap on them. You could say, "Don't ever call this number again." If they argue with you, just keep saying that until they hang up. And if they persist or call back, be as obnoxious and vulgar as you can think of. If they start lecturing you about talking that way, tell them it's your phone, not theirs. Or, for another zinger, tell them you talk the way Trump does. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:46, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Or, keeping with my theme of insulting politicians from both sides, talk to them the way Maxine Waters does. :) --Guy Macon (talk) 08:40, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I've heard of people sending an invoice for their time to companies that persist in mailing or phoning them. Send the local Democrats' office a bill by recorded delivery, tell them you value your time at $100 per interruption and a $50 admin fee for the necessity of loggin and billing them. A nice bill for a few hundred dollars... they'll quickly stop calling you. They might even pay. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

If you're willing, this strikes me as the sort of thing where a little of more public embarrassment may help. Try making a fuss on Twitter, or maybe Facebook. Nil Einne (talk) 13:26, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

There's no end of facetious/violent/unlikely suggestions on the net for rebuking spam callers. As pleasant as it might be to contemplate some kind of retribution such as blowing a whistle into the mouthpiece so that the caller gets hearing damage, it won't actually provide the relief you're looking after because the person on the call is not the one who decides who to call - in many case, they don't even dial (that's done by a robot, from a list). Long term, the solution is to elect politicians who will enact laws that ban this kind of annoyance. Matt Deres (talk) 14:58, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

This is one of the features of the modern world. I believe that around 90% of email traffic is spam. I solved that problem by not getting email. 92.31.140.53 (talk) 15:14, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Or you could try spam filtering. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:23, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

September 22

Heaven and hell

In the view of various religions (those that believe in heaven and hell), what happens in the following scenario: Two people love each other, one goes to heaven and the other goes to hell. How does the soul in heaven cope with the fact that their loved one is in hell? I'm not looking for individual opinions on this, but what various religions actually believe from their specific viewpoints. 121.45.102.242 (talk) 13:29, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think the subject of how people cope with something is typically part of a well-defined doctrine or dogma in any church/denomination that I am aware of. The Bible seems to imply that the love of God is ultimately more important than the love for ones relations. Jesus i.e. said the following concerning this: "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37) and "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) - Lindert (talk) 16:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I wonder how hating one's parents squares with "Honor thy father and thy mother"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:04, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

A web search on "hate his own father and mother" (with the quotes) turns up a bunch of people who attempt to address this with mixed results. Another popular theory is that when you have two different authors in two very different cultures writing different books with over a thousand of years between them there are going to be contradictions between them. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:50, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Even so, the Ten Commandments would have been well-known to the authors of the Gospels. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:21, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

A google search on [ heaven married ] shows a number of websites that attempt to answer the above question. The Bible says:

Luke 20:27-36 New International Version (NIV)

27 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.

28 "Teacher," they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother.

29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless.

30-31 The second and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children.

32 Finally, the woman died too.

33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?"

34 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.

35-36a But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.

36b They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection."

--Guy Macon (talk) 17:17, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

• The OP made a presumption which is not yet itself established, known as a plurium interrogationum. Questions that follow on from not-yet-established presumptions (i.e. questions of the form "When did you stop beating your wife"), are not meaningfully answerable. In this one case, the OP's presumption that what the soul cares about in heaven is in any way connected to what the soul cared about on earth has not been established, so any questions that follow on assuming it is are flawed. --Jayron32 22:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't know why this was hatted as unanswerable. The OP clearly states "I'm not looking for individual opinions on this, but what various religions actually believe from their specific viewpoints." This is totally answerable by pointing the OP to specific texts from various religious groups which describe their understanding on the matter. --Lgriot (talk) 12:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

As Jayron pointed out, the premise is flawed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:19, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't know why it was closed. I certainly didn't do it, and think that closing it was a bad idea. --Jayron32 13:44, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

No, I closed it, based on your argument that the premise is flawed. I've now re-opened it. Have at it! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:20, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

• Dante's Inferno is always worth reading (the Mark Musa translation is best). For one thing, it gives an insight into medieval explanations of situations like this. Mostly (see Canto V) it sees such an attachment as itself sinful, placing Earthly attraction above the only just goal of mankind, slavish attendance to the Church's teaching. So both would have condemned themselves (for that act alone) to one of the nicer suburbs of Hell. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:35, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
  • How did those Christians ever manage to reproduce? Anyway, I'm reminded of this line attributed to Mark Twain: "Heaven for climate, hell for society." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:43, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

September 24

How to reference a quoatation

I found a quote ("Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." Ralph Waldo Emerson) from a quote website called quotemelon . I like this quote and I want to post this quote and maybe some other quotes on my blog. So now I am wondering how to reference it. Should I reference it to the website I found it from or quotes do not need referencing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joojebaz (talk • contribs) 16:29, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

References

If its just for your blog, then referencing where you found it is fine. Note however, that many quote sites are notoriously lax as far as verification is concerned, and are often wrong (either misquoted or misattributed). If you reference the source, and its wrong -- then its the sources fault and not yours. Of course it would be best practice to quote Emerson using the original source; however, according to "expert" Ralph Keyes (probably this Ralph Keyes) in the The Quote Verifier : "No source of this quotation has ever been found in his works." But, Muriel Strode wrote a poem published in August 1903 titled "Wind-Wafted Wild Flowers" that includes:

I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail.

Source: "Tag:Muriel Strode". quoteinvestigator.com. Quote Investigator. June 19, 2014. —2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 22:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)