User talk:Sam Sailor

“ One by one, the guests arrive The guests are coming through The open-hearted many The broken-hearted few ” — Leonard Cohen, "The Guests" based on a 13th-century Persian poem ——————————————— Welcome! Need help? Click on [show] to the right ——————————————— This page was last edited or modified by 84.219.252.47 (talk) on 2018-11-30. Jabal Zikt Moved to: Talk:Wadi Zikt Click on show to view the contents of this section Hiya. You AfD'd then withdrew on the article Jabal Zikt. I've just discovered - after the exhaustive process of AfDing almost 100 of John Carter's mad GEO settlement stubs for the UAE - that he's done just the same with these mountain names. They're cruft. There are a small number of mountains, hills and tells in the UAE which are named and geographically notable, but Carter appears to have gone through every place name (or a similar 1987 database derived from tagging names from the 1960s Trucial Oman Scouts survey which is madly out of date and just plain wrong - a long story I'm happy to tell you if you have the time) and just given it a mountain. There are mountains around Zikt, they're the Hajjar Mountains but each mound doesn't have an individual name locally. So just because there's a wadi and dam at Zikt doesn't mean there's a 'Mount Zikt' or Jebel (NOT Jabal - that's an archaic transliteration) Zikt. In fact, the article's waymarker doesn't even point to a mountain or hill. We have a number of notable and named mountains and hills - Jebel Ali, Jebel Jais, Jebel Buhais and so on - and it's right they're identified, sourced and catalogued. But the 'Carter Mountains' are another series of problematic article creations that should be deleted. You were right to AfD it (the German bot article is another false positive, it's just based around the WP pin location) and I'd like to do just that. What's the best way to go about doing so, do you think? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC) PS: Sadly there are loads of the damn things and it's going to be wearying checking them all... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC) Thanks for your message Alexandermcnabb. I had hoped we could use se:Jabal Zikt for expansion and verification, but I trust your judgement in these matters. Wikipedia:Renominating for deletion does not mention withdrawn nominations; the question is if we then default to the six months, generally do not renominate the page for at least six months, unless there is something new to say, and even so, usually wait a few months., or if this is a case where "there is something new to say", which I am inclined to say is the case. Why not wait a month or two? Sam Sailor 13:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC) Sure, there's no rush, it's been festering for 10 years or so. Trouble is there's loads of 'em! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:59, 12 October 2018 (UTC) Heya - I moved Jabal Zikt to Wadi_Zikt which struck me as elegant. Hope you concur! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Alex, I can think of editors who would prefer to start a new article, and thus get the creator credits, and send the old title to AFD. Moving (renaming) a page in main space and repurposing it is done maliciously by some WP:SPAs, and is then called an article hijack. Obviously that is not the case here, rather contrary you are reducing process, and with Spinningspark's comments here I think we are all good. Sam Sailor 10:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC) I can't pretend for a second I didn't do a little sigh at the loss of a new article! :) Thanks for the blush on the autopatrol application! :P Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Alexandermcnabb, you're welcome. Sam Sailor 10:57, 15 October 2018 (UTC) I'm fine with the repurposing, I just have two comments. Imo, the page would be better at Zikt rather than Wadi Zikt. On the Piper aircraft, if it was once a notable landmark, it is still notable now per WP:NTEMP. If it isn't there anymore, change to the past tense rather than removing the passage altogether. SpinningSpark 14:01, 15 October 2018 (UTC) If you want to move it, fine by me. You could argue the wadi is more notable than the settlement as it's not much of a settlement and it's a mighty fine wadi. The aircraft was used as a direction marker for the route to Wadi Wurrayah in Dariush Zandi's book 'Offroad in the Emirates' and so was known to many expats 25 years back, although it's absence was known to many more after it rotted away and the remains were removed and everyone got lost because there wasn't a plane where the book said there was one and the publisher never revised the text in subsequent editions. Is a crashed plane a notable landmark? I tended to 'no' on that one, but again if you want to keep it, it's no biggie. Warayah is now a major nature reserve and so you can't drive to it any more that way in any case. And we should be doing this on the Wadi Zikt talk page and not cluttering up Sam's kitchen here... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Um...I was pinged here so I can only presume my opinion was wanted here. SpinningSpark 17:12, 15 October 2018 (UTC) (←) @Spinningspark: Absolutely, there's no problem. Sam Sailor 17:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC) You've got mail! Hello, Sam Sailor. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 14:42, 2 November 2018 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. GABgab 14:42, 2 November 2018 (UTC) This week's article for improvement (week 45, 2018) Hello, Sam Sailor. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Civics Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Gulf of Alaska • Latin music (genre) Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Please comment on Talk:David M. Cote The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:David M. Cote. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC) KwikBoost page question Hi Sam, Wanted to reach out to say I appreciate your input and help; I'm still new to Wikipedia but I've been enjoying my time here learning from and interacting with other editors. Charging stations are a new and developing technology and I saw there is a page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station Linked from this page, there's another page for ChargePoint, a company that innovated in this field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChargePoint While the page for "Charging stations" focuses on charging stations for electric vehicles, "Charging station" technology has since expanded to include stations built for charging mobile devices. Today there are many companies now offering charging stations for mobile phones; KwikBoost is the company that patented the technology for mobile phone charging stations. Should I instead be looking to edit the "Charging station" article to include mobile device charging technology (where KwikBoost would then be linked?) Let me know your thoughts; I'd love to work with you on this regarding developments in this technology and improving Wikipedia's current stock of information on this. Kenrdale (talk) 14:33, 7 November 2018 (UTC) Kenrdale, apart from KwikBoost, what can I help you with? Sam Sailor 21:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC) Hello Sam Sailor, sure, thanks for your response - is the Wikipedia page for Charging Stations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station) the proper page to build upon to include mobile charging station technology? When you have a moment, would you mind taking a look at ChargePoint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChargePoint) and letting me know what you think of that page's references? Thank you again! Kenrdale (talk) 02:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC) Commons and en dashes About this, I really wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to script something that "does stuff" to Commons and its filenames. That's a bot request task. I agree it something that should be done, though. I know how/where to request bot stuff on en.WP but am not sure how/where it's done on Commons.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:25, 8 November 2018 (UTC) SMcCandlish, thanks. We filed a BOT request at WP:BOTR#CAT:MISSFILE bot (permalink), and two applications have been filed at BRFA, Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/RonBot 12 and Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Galobot 2. Sam Sailor 12:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC) In the interim, I've patched the Template:Infobox U.S. county template to support a |map_county= parameter, so this problem can be worked around at least for US county map auto-generation. After foolishly breaking the template for a moment, it now works. Not sure if there's anything to be done for cases like dates in bio photos.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC) This week's article for improvement (week 46, 2018) Distribution map of modern man (Horniman Museum) Hello, Sam Sailor. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Mongoloid Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Civics • Gulf of Alaska Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 12 November 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • AfroCine: The Months of African Cinema Continues…. Greetings! Thank you very much for signing up to participate in the Months of African Cinema global contest/edit-a-thon, and thank you for your contributions so far. It is already the middle of the contest and a lot have been achieved already! We have been able to get over 200 articles created in over seven (7) languages! The figures soars to up to a thousand, if Wikidata entries are included. Furthermore, there have been about 5 in-person gatherings of Wikipedians in different countries across the world to create articles about African(a) cinema! We are very excited about what has been achieved so far, but your contributions are still needed to further exceed all expectations! Let’s create more articles before the end of this contest, which is this November!!! Article suggestions can be found here. You can also add to this list. Some notable reliable sources for African cinema can be found here. Again, this list needs expansion. Interested in Wikidata translation? check out the Occupation Drive, which is being led by Wiki Loves Women, in support of the contest and the project! Please remember to list articles you have created or improved in the Article Achievements section of the contest page, so that they can be easily tracked. Thank you once again for being part of this global event! Kind regards.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC) A message from Agrani Sinha Hello Sir, I was not aware of the fact that i could not post my amazon links. Now i completely understood why you deleted it but i want to know that without this issue could i make my wikipedia page inspite of being an author? I am not yet known to the public because i have never tried to, I had not even did any promotions or marketing for my books. Your help will be highly grateful for me :). Agrani Sinha (talk) 17:09, 14 November 2018 (UTC) Dear Agrani Sinha, just call me Sam. As the message I left you on your user talk page says, it is not strictly forbidden to write an autobiography, but it is strongly discouraged, and better left to someone without a conflict of interest. Searching Google for "Agrani Sinha" I do not find sources that would make a biography pass the notability guideline for people. We often refer to such cases as WP:TOOSOON. The good thing is that you are young, and you have all the time to develop your talent and create a career. Your books are all published via CreateSpace. If it was me, I'd try to get a deal with a notable publishing house. Good luck with everything! Sam Sailor 17:26, 14 November 2018 (UTC) Missed that Sam, I'm sorry I failed to notice your long post of Nov. 7 at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Lighthouses#Naming_convention. I thought that discussion had gone quiet, but now I see not. Let me know what lighthouse article names that I moved are proper names, in your estimation; a couple of those might help focus the conversation. Dicklyon (talk) 01:06, 15 November 2018 (UTC) WP:CONSENSUS is policy, and policy should be followed. You were told that you edited against consensus, yet you have chosen to move ~100 lighthouse article since. They should all be moved back. Neglecting to read posts is not an excuse for not engaging in a fact-based dialogue. On the contrary you have edit warred you undiscussed changes to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (architecture) back in again. Please self-revert. Sam Sailor 15:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC) NPR Newsletter No.15 16 November 2018 Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. Hello Sam Sailor, Community Wishlist Survey – NPP needs you – Vote NOW Community Wishlist Voting takes place 16 to 30 November for the Page Curation and New Pages Feed improvements, and other software requests. The NPP community is hoping for a good turnout in support of the requests to Santa for the tools we need. This is very important as we have been asking the Foundation for these upgrades for 4 years. If this proposal does not make it into the top ten, it is likely that the tools will be given no support at all for the foreseeable future. So please put in a vote today. We are counting on significant support not only from our own ranks, but from everyone who is concerned with maintaining a Wikipedia that is free of vandalism, promotion, flagrant financial exploitation and other pollution. With all 650 reviewers voting for these urgently needed improvements, our requests would be unlikely to fail. See also The Signpost Special report: 'NPP: This could be heaven or this could be hell for new users – and for the reviewers', and if you are not sure what the wish list is all about, take a sneak peek at an article in this month's upcoming issue of The Signpost which unfortunately due to staff holidays and an impending US holiday will probably not be published until after voting has closed. Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)18:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC) Space style? I ask about your change in Talk:Beluga_whale#Are_spaces_around_numbers_needed_in_tables? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Numbersinstitute (talk • contribs) 23:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC) Responded at the appropriate venue. Sam Sailor 06:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC) Sagitarius+ Your script, Sagitarius+ shows quite a lot of errors in the console log while searching for a suitable redirect target. The text of one of the errors is attached : Error text index.php?title=User:Sam_Sailor/Scripts/Sagittarius%2B.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript:2549 Uncaught TypeError: Cannot set property 'href' of undefined at HTMLInputElement.inputChanged (index.php?title=User:Sam_Sailor/Scripts/Sagittarius%2B.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript:2549) . Please look into this. Regards — fr + 18:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC) Please comment on Talk:Doug Wardlow The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Doug Wardlow. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC) Blocked Why did I get blocked by Materialscientist even if I triggered the edit filter? 125.160.113.199 (talk) 08:02, 18 November 2018 (UTC) The IP you are using is currently not blocked - if it was, you could not post on my user talk page. Triggering an edit filter is something else than blanking the sandbox header. Sam Sailor 08:05, 18 November 2018 (UTC) Is topic removal harmful or not? 125.160.113.199 (talk) 08:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC) I don't know what you mean by "topic removal". Give an example. Sam Sailor 08:21, 18 November 2018 (UTC) The section header removal like this: == Section == - 125.160.113.199 (talk) 08:26, 18 November 2018 (UTC) The answer is probably yes in most cases, especially with level-2 headings. There are times when, say, an article has multiple very short paragraphs each under their own heading, when it can make sense to merge two or more sections into one. Use common sense: would the article become a better read for the reader? Another case where section removal is sometimes OK is empty sections. What do you want to edit? Sam Sailor 08:38, 18 November 2018 (UTC) If I unreported a user from the noticeboard, what will happen? 125.160.113.199 (talk) 13:01, 18 November 2018 (UTC) Sorry, but it does not take a PhD in SPI to connect the dots here. I posted a welcome message and a TWA invitation on your talk page on purpose: try to forget the past, start with doing the full TWA course, then continue with regular and constructive editing. Sam Sailor 06:58, 19 November 2018 (UTC) This week's article for improvement (week 47, 2018) The Equator on the world map of the Earth Hello, Sam Sailor. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Equator Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Mongoloid • Civics Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 19 November 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • ArbCom 2018 election voter message Hello, Sam Sailor. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC) Request on 19:19:33, 21 November 2018 for assistance on AfC submission by Yammmmmm Yammmmmm (talk · contribs) User:Yammmmmm (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Hi the article I submitted for review yesterday was not accepted because part of the article is directly copied from the SOM website. There will only be one reference if citation is done. You mentioned that the act of paraphrasing sources is not allowed too. I would be grateful if you can tell me how do I proceed? Thanks Yammmmmm (talk) 19:19, 21 November 2018 (UTC) Yammmmmm, a place to start would be to do the The Wikipedia Adventure that I invited you to do on your talk page. Sam Sailor 20:22, 21 November 2018 (UTC) You've got mail Hello, Sam Sailor. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.JC7V (talk) 20:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC) Editing Atom Hovhanesyan, Abstract Expressionist artist Wikipedia pages Dear editor, please visit artbyatom.com (updated recently) and check artbyatomhov Instagram pages,with multiple new posts (published by me Ara Hovhannisyan, Atom's Father), plus check beautiful pages at kunstmatrix.com/en/artist/atom-hovhanesyan, artPal , Saatchiart.com galleries. Unfortunately I am old and not so familiar with modern social media, but that's all support that my only Son (deceased so young) actually has. Please let me know anything that I missed in my efforts to commemorate my Son's name, who dedicated himself to art and died for art. Sincerely, Ara Hovhannisyan - arahov62@yahoo.com or arahov63@gmail.com Arahov70 (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC) Dear Ara Hovhannisyan, please forgive me this delayed response to your message. My old heart goes out to you and your family for your loss. English Wikipedia's basic criteria for testing if a biographical subject warrents an article reads:      People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject. I did a thorough search for sources in regards to Draft:Atom Hovhanesyan, and I was unable to find the required significant coverage in independent sources. A litmus test in cases like these is to ask the question: would I, who did not know Atom, be able to write Draft:Atom Hovhanesyan (or something similar) based solely on the available sources? The answer, currently at least, is "no". I think it is a wonderful tribute to your son's oeuvre you have created on artbyatom.com. I hope we will be able to retain you for the project writing about other subjects. There is always a need for editors who know other languages than English, and I will post an invitation to WikiProject Armenia on your talk page. If there is anything I can do for you here, never hesitate to ask. Warm regards, Sam Sailor 08:57, 29 November 2018 (UTC) References This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2018) Siri is a virtual assistant part of Apple Inc.'s iOS, watchOS, macOS, HomePod, and tvOS operating systems. Hello, Sam Sailor. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Siri Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Equator • Mongoloid Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:05, 26 November 2018 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Uniforms of the Italian Armed Forces I have immediately removed content that had been added to the draft page but after your comment it says that we have copyright sentences. Can you check it, please? Thank you in advance. LIUCnicolo01 (talk) 11:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC) LIUCnicolo01, you did it well, Nico, I just asked for revision deletion of the copyrighted material. In the current live version of the draft no copy-vio is detected. Grazie! Sam Sailor 11:48, 26 November 2018 (UTC) query on notifications Hi sailor Sam, I hit your user page accidental, and saw one of my fave quotes of Len Coen, freed now sadly for us. Anyway, I got a notice that a page I touched was reviewed (by you, a hakea fwiw) but I am not the creator. Does this mean that the page was unreviewed, or my edit was? Note that I refused some offer of auto review years ago, and hope that is not making work for those who concentrate on these matters? Are you familiar with how this works, or have a neat link that explains the triggering of review notices I see? [excellent composition on the photo above this edit window, wish I was there :] Have a good one cygnis insignis 12:01, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Cygnis insignis, wish I was there too - likely time for a 3-months wikibreak come spring. :) Could you look in your notifications and clarify which page we are talking about here? Thanks, Sam Sailor 12:11, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Wiki is good when the weather is not. The page that prompted me to solicit an answer from you, who just happened to be active, was Hakea macrocarpa history, and is that incidental, but may clarify what I am blathering about. cygnis insignis 12:18, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Cygnis insignis, ok, thanks, that gave me a clue: you are referring to Hakea morrisoniana, a redirect (to Hakea macrocarpa) that you created on 27 October, and that I patrolled earlier today. Everything looks fine. If you click on Hakea morrisoniana in your notifications you are likely to be redirected to the target, Hakea macrocarpa, hence the confusion. :) The notification you received is triggered by the patroller (me, in this case) marking the page as reviewed with the Page Curation tool. Sam Sailor 12:32, 26 November 2018 (UTC) A clue, from me, might happen I suppose, could be I don't immediately want to spar with you :) And thank you for the heads up on my ability to miss the obvious, always a timely reminder when I am focused on minutiae and commenting on the meta. Have a good one, give me a hoy if you are sailing by a local port. cygnis insignis 13:09, 26 November 2018 (UTC) A barnstar for you The Reviewer Barnstar This is for your valuable efforts for reviewing new articles in Wikipedia. Thank you. PATH SLOPU (Talk) 12:43, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Thank you Path slopu, that's very kind. Best, Sam Sailor 12:46, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Achievements of Sachin Tendulkar Sorry fat fingers syndrome led to accidental rollback. Nthep (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2018 (UTC) @Nthep: No worries, I'm diagnosed as well, and occasionally combine it with foggy brain syndrome subsequently relying on foregiveness, which NearEMPTiness gave me with a friendly click on "thanks". Thanks for posting. Sam Sailor 20:18, 26 November 2018 (UTC) Please comment on Draft talk:Joan Kelley Walker The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Draft talk:Joan Kelley Walker. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julia Bösch I was surprised to see that relished rather than merge and redirect to outfittery. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 06:03, 28 November 2018 (UTC) A comment or two more won't hurt. Best, Sam Sailor 06:04, 28 November 2018 (UTC) Abu Dhabi copyvio Ahahahaaaa! I put 'press release' in the edit summary 'cos the language was SO press release. I didn't realise it was a WAM file. Zawya has just copied the WAM file (WAM is the UAE National News Agency), so is that a copyright violation? WAM material is free to use, it's sort of like tagging a PR Newswire piece as Copyvio when it's clearly intended for widespread dissemination and use. In any case, it's PR fluff right out of the tin.. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:21, 29 November 2018 (UTC) @Alexandermcnabb: The copyvio on Abu Dhabi was reported by CopyPatrol (permalink). Double-checking the source showed a "Copyright © 2018 Zawya" as well as a "© Copyright Emirates News Agency (WAM) 2018", hence the revdel request. But, as you imply, even if it had been a copy-paste from a CC-compatible source, it would still need removal under POV/PUFF/FLUFF. If you are interested, the policy is at Wikipedia:Copyright violations, and Enterprisey's latest script, cv-revdel, eliminates the somewhat tedious excercise it used to be to collect diffs for {{copyvio-revdel}}. Sam Sailor 16:08, 29 November 2018 (UTC) I am, actually, I'll go take a look. Thanks. Also, a news agency disseminating material intended for wide use but copyrighting it is, well, just mad... :) Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC) (talk page stalker) @Alexandermcnabb: Even though press releases are, by their nature, "clearly intended for widespread dissemination and use", they are very unlikely to be intended for anyone to use, either unchanged or modified in any way whatever for any purpose whatever, subject to attribution to Wikipedia which is (pretty well) the terms under which Wikipedia content is licensed. Therefore, copying such a press release to Wikipedia certainly is an infringement of copyright. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 20:36, 29 November 2018 (UTC) Your close on Talk:Barry O'Sullivan Might I ask what rationale you're basing your close on? There's clearly no consensus on the discussion and if anything, the consensus is that it should be changed, seeing as how that's the ONLY side that has provided any arguments based on policy with the keep only refer to not liking the change. By policy, the reason for closures, are when first, it's not too soon. Well there's no minimum specified since it's not a formal discussion like an RFC so this could fit. When the discussion is STABLE, that is when new editors are not joining the discussion and points are only getting repeated. Seeing as how Irn just joined, and points are not yet being repeated, this doesn't fit. When further contributions are unlikely to be helpful, well this also clearly doesn't fit seeing as how this requires that no new points are made, yet they are and there is no clear outcome yet. And the last point is not too late, which is that it should be closed when editors have moved on, but seeing as how the discussion was still active, this also clearly doesn't fit. So seeing as how the close does not fit 3 out of 4 of the tests to close... By what rationale are you closing? Your closing comment also isn't uninvolved, so you wouldn't be allowed to close anyway as closing is for UNinvolved. You're saying those arguing for change have presented no source for that it should be taken seriously, but the argument presented is that policy SPECIFICALLY STATES that no such requirement exists. The only source that is needed according to policy is that it was said, a remark that has been referred to in the discussion but your close ignores. So a further question becomes... Did you actually read the discussion before closing? Did you review the policies that was pointed out? Because if you did, why is your close not even acknowledging that policy arguments was even brought up? If you didn't, then why are you even closing at all? 84.219.252.47 (talk) 05:53, 30 November 2018 (UTC)