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January 12

Citations that include small caps in title

I made these changes to the carnitine article in line with the MOS of chemistry, where names like L-carnitine should have small caps (as in l-carintine). These names occur in references as well. For example, reference 1 (doi:10.1016/j.nut.2004.04.003) has the title Supplementation of l-carnitine in athletes: does it make sense?. How do I include small caps in reference titles without producing these citation errors that I have produced? EdChem (talk) 00:27, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I've answered this question for you before, haven't I? See Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2019 December 15 § Small caps within citation templates.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:40, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, you have, and thanks for the reminder. I apologise for forgetting :( EdChem (talk) 02:01, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Wiki World

Hello Wikipedia world,

My name is Deepankar Dey and I am new here in Wikipedia. Can anyone please take me through Wikipedia article editing guideline? Thanks in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepankar Dey (talk • contribs) 05:32, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Deepankar Dey, The Wikipedia Adventure is an interactive tour on how to edit Wikipedia, which you may enjoy. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 06:02, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Twinkle

I have twinkle. I also used it to rollback vandalism etc. But, for few days I can't see Rollback, Vandalism, AGF options. Why?  :) S A H A  08:46, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

​Where are your scripts stored? Your common.js appears to be empty. – Thjarkur (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur: what is this? I have no idea.  :) S A H A  11:35, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

​Oh sorry, I forgot Twinkle was a gadget you loaded in your preferences. The rollback buttons only appear when you are looking at the latest edit, if you look at old edits you only get "Restore this version". It appears you have been using Twinkle's rollback since this post so it appears to be loading correctly for you. – Thjarkur (talk) 13:14, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Help me Editing Fijian Wikipedia!

I editing Fijian Wikipedia addressing very huge problem of this language's Wikipedia, Fijian Language has too much words have multiple means, some words I can't understand and surprising outstand means (e.g. manumanu in Fijian also mean virus. Link:https://glosbe.com/en/fj/virus), some words I can't find a applicable match of these words (e.g. Infection in Glosbe Fijian Dictionary have 25 entities, I can't find out which is suitable of the word mean in Fijian. Link:https://glosbe.com/en/fj/Infection), that spend me too much time to creating these articles and fix these wrong words correctly, eventually some words I can't find out which is appropriate in Glosbe, leaving these words and sentences incorrectly.

Glosbe is unreliable, there is few Fijian dictionary in Internet, can someone help me find out an useful, reliable Fijian dictionary website? Weather Top Wizard (talk) 12:30, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Weather Top Wizard: hi there. The help desk is for asking about using or editing Wikipedia. Unfortuantely, this isn't the place to ask about Fijian dictionaries. Perhaps you could do a general google search or ask at the Wikipedia:Reference desk. Thanks, Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 12:36, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

private drafts

Where on Wikipedia can I create a private draft to test the visual editor, without the draft being visible or editable by outside users?

I have had a very unpleasant first experience trying to edit wikipedia for the past two days, having text written in a draft and marked clearly as placeholder for a work in progress be reported for copyright violation and repeatedly deleted despite being marked as a test of the editor.

MariusPoenar (talk) 13:39, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi MariusPoenar - You can't. All content on wikipedia (be that in draftspace, mainspace or userspace) is editable by all users. You do have a sandbox at User:MariusPoenar/sandbox, however, this can be edited by other users. If there is a copyright violation, this is a legal issue, and will be removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:43, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I see you have further comments on your talk page, so I'll comment further there as well. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:44, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Lee Vilenski - I did not know that Wikipedia uses the word Draft to mean something other than its common use both in dictionary and other online services (for example in Gmail saving an email as a Draft saves changes to a folder for later edit, it doesn't make it visible to everyone who uses Gmail). I understand the distinction now.

I had pressed Publish in the Sandbox because the page did not save my changes otherwise, and thought that something called a Draft and marked as containing placeholder text would not be viewable or editable by anyone else.

This misunderstanding could have been cleared up in a few seconds of communication, but none of the editors who hit me with threats of banning and copyright violations over the past two days bothered to "Assume good faith" or "Don't bite the newbies" at any point. MariusPoenar (talk) 14:34, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

MariusPoenar We want to be nice to all new editors, but copyright violations put Wikipedia in legal jeopardy, and must be addressed immediately. It is not always possible to take the time to warn users first about such matters. You should also be aware that all edits to every page on Wikipedia appear in the Recent Changes feed, which is monitored around the clock by thousands of editors from around the world. If you don't want other people to see something, you shouldn't put it on Wikipedia. If you want to practice using the Visual Editor or just regular editor, you should do so in your Sandbox with just practice edits. You can also make it clear that you are practicing editing in your edit summaries. 331dot (talk) 16:01, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

331dot I did make it clear that I'm practicing editing, it just seems to have been ignored. MariusPoenar (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@MariusPoenar: I sympathize with your confusion: the situatin irritates me, too. We used to call the "publish" button "save", but we changed it (apparently) for legal reasons to "publish", because when you hit that button, the result is stored on our servers and is available, and "publish" is the term that is used in the "terms of use" you agree to every time your hit that button (look at the text below the button.) The truth is that a strict interpretation of copyright law says that you are violating copyright when you save that info on those other web sites, regardless of what you or they call the action you take to cause the material to be written to their servers. We are paranoid about copyright, because some group that is hostile to Wikipedia could try to use it to shut us down. -Arch dude (talk) 19:26, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Arch dude Thank you for the details. MariusPoenar (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

After closing an image on a page, the page jumps back to the top instead of what I was just viewing

So I'll be viewing a page and whenever I open then close an image I'll get pushed back to the top of the page. This makes for very frustrating viewing as I'm constantly scrolling back down to where I actually was. I tried doing some research to figure out if there's some setting or browser extension that could be causing this but I can't find anything. Issue occurs on both Chrome and Firefox on my computer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.10.234.212 (talk) 14:26, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

This is a known bug (phab:T229484) but the fix has not yet been applied. You could comment on that ticket (which is half a year old) and encourage the developers to merge the fix. – Thjarkur (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Where can I ask a question (and get an answer)

Sorry if this is a bit snarky, but I'm quite frustrated, and, frankly, quite irritated - and this isn't the first time. Several HOURS ago, I looked for, and found, SOME, but VERY limited information on Kenneth Maddy. I've been aware for some time now, that any user is able, in THEORY, to edit any page here - but have been unable, for multiple reasons I may touch on here, to be able to figure out HOW to do so, both tonight AND several times in the past.

In this case, I know little about the man, so would not even begin to think about editing it. However, when I looked at what was there, it clearly was not anywhere close to what I would consider to be the "normal", generally excellent Wikipedia page (thanks SO much to ALL involved). I admit I didn't read the page in it's entirety (since it was obviously not what I was seeking), so SOME of what I was looking for MAY have been buried amongst all the (?hyperbole?) that WAS there. Without going back and looking again (I've already spent more time than it was worth to me, AND am rather perplexed as to whether it's even appropriate HERE), the info there seemed like it was pretty much ENTIRELY a list of awards and praise he had received as a Senator, to the point of seeming almost like an election campaign piece, or perhaps, an extremely flattering obituary. It was VERY MUCH lacking almost ANY "typical" biographical information.

I lhen looked further, for what I was pretty much expecting to find, which was the often-seen comment attached to such articles (without being quite this blunt) that the article was not up to the normal standards of Wikipedia. THAT would have assured me that SOMEONE had at LEAST noticed it, and it was flagged for needed improvement, eventually. There was ONLY one brief, slightly negative comment there, however, saying simply that the article needed more references. While I would highly agree, my snarky take would be that it needed LOTS of references to LOTS of information that was NOT THERE . . .

So THEN I thought that, despite my many past frustrations with trying to figure out how to EDIT an entry (and the same number of times giving up), it shouldn't be NEAR that difficult to simply comment that the article was highly in need of improvement. Silly me. What I DID find, were several - no,actually, multiple pages that appeared to be the right direction to go - UNTIL one clicked on one, or more, of the (often) several links that seemed to be associated with almost every sentence or phrase within Wikipedia. Then I almost always discovered, after following several MORE links for each one I DID click on, that where I THOUGHT I had finally discovered the answer MIGHT be hiding . . . It wasn't. It would be inappropriate to recommend a clean-up THERE, because of one reason or another, accompanied by more links to explain why, in more detail . . .

Honestly, it is said that, with lawyers, the fine print giveth, and the fine print taketh away. I'd like to add to general body of common sayings: "With (?Wikipedians?), the LINK giveth, and MANY, MANY MORE links make you FEEL LIKE your BRAIN has been taken away . . . Honestly, I've tried to avoid being insulting, but I would not be surprised if NONE of you folks would be capable of sending a friend a new ADDRESS, if you moved, without somehow being able to insert a link.

To be fair, links would have helped me in writing this letter. I could have sent many of the multiple "ah-ha's" I THOUGHT I had found, so that SOMEONE might better understand WHY all ultimately led me to dead ends, or "not applicable's". If I recall correctly, at some point, I found a link to what appeared to be a GENERAL help page. THAT page consisted of about 20 or 30 links to more specific help pages, several of which looked promising, but each one I looked at consisted of . . . yeah, that's right . . . many more links.

Now, I have to admit that I realize I've probably wasted my time writing this, for multiple reasons - mostly since I'm in a writing mood now, and am primarily venting my frustration. However, I'm sort of HOPING that SOMEBODY might read this and understand my point of view just a little bit . . . since I could not figure out where to send it otherwise, and do not feel like spending most of my Sunday tomorrow, trying to figure it out. If I had, I might have made an effort trying to make it more coherent. Also, I believe I read something a few links ago that said unless I signed in, forget about any replies, but I wouldn't get them anyway ??? For now, it's TIRED and I'm getting late, and I haven't been able to figure out much of the text that appears below this, so I'll cut and paste them for anyone who MIGHT still be following. Can any of YOU figure out what they are saying? (Maybe if you follow the links?)

By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. (Yeah, sure, I completely agree)

THEN it requests me to select "Publish changes", "Show preview", or "Show changes" . . . Huh? I don't think ANY apply, but I'll play with these a bit after I share more from this page . . .

{{}} {{{}}} | [] [[]] [[Category:]] #REDIRECT [[]]  

. . . and there's more, which I assume has some purpose here, but it's beyond me, so won't copy it all, EXCEPT all the links further down . . . Now, somehow or another, I got all the way through college, AND managed to own a relatively successful business for 30-plus years, but should I have gotten a degree instead in IT, since everybody else in the world understands THESE, EXCEPT for me ? ? They are ALL links. Maybe I should click on each and every one, so I too, can become enlightened . . . Or, braindead.

This page is a member of 5 hidden categories (help) :

Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed Category:Pages automatically checked for incorrect links Category:Pages with editnotices Category:Project pages with short description Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5b0:2652:6fd8:3c2d:4476:9f4d:786a (talk) 14:45, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

• @IP, no, not a waste of time at all. For a start I would not be surprised if NONE of you folks would be capable of sending a friend a new ADDRESS, if you moved, without somehow being able to insert a link has now entered my personal Hall of Fame for summarising Wikipedians  :)
  Also, thanks for drawing the crummy state of the Kenneth Maddy article to our attention. If you take another look, I've simplified it somewhat, by the simple expedient of filleting it of all the crap, of which there was much. Ther's now less to say about Kenneth, but what there is, is at least readable. And yes, it does need more references (still). Cheers! ——SN54129 15:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

• "A bit snarky"? If you want to ask a question and get an answer, posting a giant wall o' rant with SCREAMING words and insults directed at the rest of us volunteer editors, who have absolutely nothing to do with you not wanting to avail yourself of the many different help and learning tools available before trying to edit, is usually not going to get it done. I'll pass. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 15:47, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Just several hours and you get frustrated? Already?! Calm down, there's WP:NORUSH. --CiaPan (talk) 15:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Code

Further to my thread above, see

<table>{{#if:{{{param1|}}}|<tr> <th>Parameter 1</th> <td>{{{param1}}}</td>

Which of the params is the resultant, visible one? E.g. if parameter 1 = name, whch of those shold say name? Thanks in advance to anyone who knows what the bally hell i'm taking about! ——SN54129 15:37, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

<td>{{{param1}}}</td>

The first use of that parameter, in {{#if:{{{param1|}}}|, is only evaluated. As the (incomplete) snippet above is written, if |param1= is present and has a value, then the return is <tr><th>Parameter 1</th><td>{{{param1}}}</td> and whatever follows that until the next pipe or closing }}.

You can mimic what I said:

if 'param1' is present and has a value, return italicized 'param1' → {{#if:param1|''param1''|param1}} → param1

if 'param1' is not present or does not have a value, return plain-text 'param1' → {{#if:|''param1''|param1}} → param1

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:01, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

By the way, wot exactly does tr, th and td mean (if you don't mind me asking).

Completely unrelatedly, you may see that every thread since my loop question above is no longer directly editable. *groans from the back* What have I done now!  ;) ——SN54129 16:46, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Re: your loop question: you opened several templates with the {{ but you did not not close them so MediaWiki thinks that everything after the opening {{ belongs in the template that never closed. Don't do that.

html table markup:

<tr>...</tr> – table row tag

<th>...</th> – table header tag

<td>...</td> – table data tag

That you asked this question, make me wonder what it is that you are attempting to do ...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:04, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting that unclosed tag business Trappist the monk; I guessed it was something like that, but for the life of me I couldn't see it.

Per the above, it's an infobox. Or at least, it would be if I knew wot I was doing. All the best! And thanks again for your help. ——SN54129 17:14, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you should consider using {{infobox}} which has the purpose of creating infoboxen ...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:17, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Ah! That would be it then Ted  :) thanks for the informations! ——SN54129 18:37, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

List of most popular articles on Wikipedia

Is there a page for List of most popular articles on Wikipedia ... or ... List of most read articles on Wikipedia ... ? I was not able to find anything. If there is, there should be some "redirects" with those article names, no? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:48, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: You might find something at Wikipedia:Statistics#Page_views? ——SN54129 16:55, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Top 25 Report exists. It's more for popular right now than overall. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:33, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I found this, also: Wikipedia:Multiyear ranking of most viewed pages. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Missing blue "links" for "Edit"

On the above page, many of the section headings do not have the blue "Edit" link (usually located to the right of the section header title) ... why is that? Some do (prior to January 12); some do not (after January 12). Very strange. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:50, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: Yeah, that was me. ——SN54129 16:55, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

About Mehrdad Asemani

All information about my name and last name is wrong My real name is Mehrdad Asemani Please edit my profile . Some unknown people write Farsi and giving wrong information about my name and last name . Mehrdad Asemani This is the link of my profile — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:3500:282:39D4:1926:4F1F:6BD0 (talk) 17:28, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

There does not seem to be an article about you on the English Wikipedia(we do not have "profiles", we have articles.). If you are referring to the Farsi Wikipedia, you will have to address any issues with an article about you there; each language version is a separate project. 331dot (talk) 17:32, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

January 13

Ninas wikipedia article

Where is article for Nina on Wikipedia i thought you had a article on her — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.173.77.247 (talk) 00:43, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, a little more detail would help to identify the person you wish to search for; or click here for a list of people with the name. Nina of Nina & Frederik can be found at Nina van Pallandt. Eagleash (talk) 01:07, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

My "Your Notices" thing says 99+ and I can't get it to go to 0 and be useful

Help please. Peregrine Fisher (talk) 02:15, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I've had this problem for months so it's difficult to see notifications despite opting to clear all of the notices. There must be a solution for this! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:18, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I just marked all as read about ten times, about then different ways, and then it finally did it. Now I'm trying to get alerts to zero and it's being stubborn! Peregrine Fisher (talk) 02:29, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

What exactly did this edit do?

What exactly did this edit do? I can't figure it out. The edit is this one:

 19:16, January 12, 2020‎ 98.217.31.244 talk‎ 6,813 bytes +1‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit 

at the article Disappearance of Jennifer Dulos. Thanks. Also, what do I have to type, here, to show the "diff". Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:15, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: the edit appears to have added a space after the period at the end of the paragraph. I do no know the correct way to identify the "diff" but I just copy the URL like this [1]. -Arch dude (talk) 06:22, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Very odd. What (possible) reason would a person have to add a space after that period? When I "copy and paste" the title of the page, with the diff, and try to link it ... I get this: Disappearance of Jennifer Dulos: Difference between revisions. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:56, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: The Wikipedia:Simplest diff guide explains a way to make a link to a diff. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:22, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: You are confusing the URL with the page title. You used the title (the English-readable heading) with the URL (the machine-readable thingee that starts with "https://" and has slashes in it). -Arch dude (talk) 15:44, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

An IP user with no other edits made a one-character change that did nothing to change the appearance of the article. It seems pointless to speculate on why. But here's a hypothesis: they wanted to find what their current IP address was, so they made a harmless edit and then looked at the article's edit history. Maproom (talk) 14:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro:

1. I have formatted your question a bit.
2. Possibly a new user tested whether they actually can modify any article in Wikipedia.
3. Once you identified the edit in the article's history, click at the timestamp part (01:16, 13 January 2020‎) and you'll get the difference view at the URL https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Disappearance_of_Jennifer_Dulos&oldid=935505850 — then you can copy the revision ID, which is a number after the oldid= part, that is 935505850 in this case. Then you can form a wikilink like Special:Diff/935505850 or use some of {{diff}} templates. --CiaPan (talk) 14:51, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@CiaPan: Thanks for re-formatting my question ... and thanks for the info! Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Editors might look at an article and want to mark the fact that they have been there on a certain date and examined it, finding nothing to fix or change. They then add a harmless little space, thereby recording their visit in the history (really for their own use). I have done this myself. Surely, though, the editor should mark in the Edit summary exactly what he or she has done. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 15:55, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

OK. That makes sense. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't seem fair to intentionally burden other people's watchlists like that. I've long suspected that there are use cases with some editing tools (like the visual or mobile tools) that end up inserting extra blank spaces or newlines, probably when the user does and undoes something, and then saves the change to exit the editing page instead of just closing it or going back. I see it a lot, with or without other changes. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 22:41, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

How to stop people from altering text?

Hello, I seem to be finding difficulties in the Qasem Soleimani's personal life subsection. People are referring to his relatives and children in past tense but they are in fact still alive. I tried adding notices in the source of the article but it doesn't help. I also tried searching the edit history to find some answers why my edit was reverted but I just find "Fixed" in the quick summary. Is there a better way to protect this subsection without applying protection to the entire article? At the time of writing this question I reverted the edit again on the article. LukeA1 (talk) 15:01, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Click on "Talk" at the top of the page you want to edit and raise the matter calmly in a discussion with the other editors on the Talk page. Yours, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 15:04, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @LukeA1: 'Had' (past tense) is correct. He is no longer alive, so "had 'X' children" is the way it is excpressed. Eagleash (talk) 15:08, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure if I'm at fault. I mean, by reading that sentence with the word "had" I get the felling that they deceased (and not Soleimani himself!). A few authors thanked me for that edit but as I said, I'm not sure. Still, I want to know how can I protect the text from future occasions like this if they occur? Can I file a request for a partial article protection? LukeA1 (talk) 15:17, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@LukeA1: His children are alive, but he died. So they exist in the present and he is in the past. Hence they are his children, but he was their father. And a relation of having children or father is somewhat like a process rather than a state, so when one end of the relation ceased to exist, the relation disappears, too – he had children, they had a father. --CiaPan (talk) 15:26, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@LukeA1: No. you cannot protect subsections. That is not what protection is for and it is not how Wikipedia works. When you and another editor disagree, you are supposed to discuss the issue with the other editors and reach consensus. The other editor's initial reversion is a signal that such a discussion is needed: you are not supposed to re-apply your edit until you reach a consensus: see WP:BRD. Protection is intended to freeze an article when an edit war or vandalism is disrupting the article. Protection is not supposed to "take sides" in an edit war, but to force the editors to begin discussion, so protection will freeze the article in what at least one side considers to be the "wrong" state. -Arch dude (talk) 15:38, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit count

Why is my edit count in preferences different than here? Interstellarity (talk) 15:40, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Because that's where 'they' have put it; whoever they may be. It's also in the page you linked at the end of 'basic information'. Eagleash (talk) 16:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

​I don't know what they're counting differently in "Basic information", but you will see the same number as the one in your preferences under "Global edit counts". – Thjarkur (talk) 17:02, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

There are several edge cases where different algorithms count edits differently, Interstellarity. For example, a page move may be counted as a single edit, or as one edit to the source page (creating a redirect) and one to the target page. I think the Xtools counter is probably the most accurate, but it is also on the slow side. I believe there are at least three different page count algorithms in current use. The results are normally close enough that the differences don't matter for most purposes. Ask on the technical pump if you want details. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:31, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@DESiegel: What do you mean by technical pump? Interstellarity (talk) 17:39, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Interstellarity: WP:VPT. --ColinFine (talk)

Asked there. Interstellarity (talk) 17:47, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Also, yeah, there's no official algorithm for this, certain things are debatable (like deleted edits, page moves etc.) Beware of WP:EDITCOUNTITIS. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:53, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Where was the policy on trademarks / commercial packaging established?

This is in regards to the following thread:

• Talk:Sriracha sauce (Huy Fong Foods)#Infobox bottle image 2

I would like to read the discussion where the current policy at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks#Use of graphic logos was established. I am mostly interested in the English Wikipedia policy, but I would also like to see where any related policies on commons were established.

At first glance it seems that we are using a more narrow definition of free use than most of the rest of the world is using (pretty much nobody has a trademark or copyright problem with using an image of a product), but I have a basic distrust in the "whatever seems right to Guy Macon" standard and would like to carefully consider the reasons why such a policy was implemented before challenging it. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Guy Macon on copyright policy, including the use of copyrighted logos, Wikipedia policy is clealtry and intentionally stricter than the law requires, and has been so since before I started editing back in 2005.

I am not a lawyer, but I am something of a legal amateur (and was for a time one of the leading responder on the legal site of stack exchange law.se) particularly on copyright issues. Wikipedia's limits on fair use go well beyond what a US court would require. I think this is partly to counter the internet culture where many assume that if it is online it is free to reuse, no mater what, often under a bogus claim of fair use. It is also partly to be sure that we are so clearly in compliance that it is unlikely that anyone would ever bring suit, and if anyone did, it would be quickly dismissed. I suspect in early days the prospect of large copyright damages was considered an existential threat to the site. Now that is simply not true, If it ever was, but the strict copyright rules help enforce a requirement to create original prose, and to detect spam. There is also a heritage of principle from the Free Software movement, and the later Open Content movement. We could probably loosen our policy a bit without legal jeopardy, but I doubt consensus for that will ever be achieved. I don't know where this policy was initially discussed. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 18:07, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@Guy Macon: You can search the archives of the images talk pages with relevant terms for past discussions. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:53, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I just spent 40 minutes searching. I found several discussion about what the policy already is, but nothing from before the decision talking about what the policy should be. It appears that the policy calling for not using images of common products because they (of course) contain trademarks by the makers of those products sprang out of the forehead of Zeus full formed and fully armed and armored. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:22, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Guy Macon: The local policy Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Trademarks#Use_of_graphic_logos might be linked with WP:NFCCP #3 (minimal usage of copyrighted content). But that's a guess.

As for Commons, I believe it is pretty much the cornerstone of the project that only "free" images, i.e. images under a CC BY SA license (which depending on your taste might too free because you would like to restrict commercial use, or too unfree because anything except CC0 aka public domain, but it is highly unlikely you can get community and WMF Legal support for changing the way it is), can be uploaded here, so that users can pull images from there without asking themselves any questions.

Regarding the sauce packaging thingie: the logo is likely copyrighted and the image contains the logo in a way that could be extracted (with non-abysmal contrast, resolution etc.) from the image, thus the image cannot be licensed as CC BY SA (which would include a reuser's right to carve out the logo and use it), thus it cannot be uploaded on Commons. That follows pretty quickly from Commons' licensing policy. Whether it cannot be uploaded/used locally (en-wp): see my guess above.

All that is linked to copyright, not trademarks. There is even commons:Template:Trademarked for the case of trademarked-but-not-copyrighted elements. (I would argue that accepting trademarked-but-not-copyrighted elements conflicts with the philosophical goal of (care)free reuse of Commons images, but the case is extremely rare anyway.) Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Are you saying that you cannot release a picture that you yourself took under CC BY-SA if the picture contains any material that is copyrighted? I thought the argument was that you cannot release a picture that you yourself took under CC BY-SA if the picture contains any material that is trademarked. In the case of Huy Fong Foods brand Sriracha sauce the rooster is a trademark, but every word on the label is copyrighted. Creative commons says

"CC licenses do not license rights other than copyright and similar rights... For example, they do not license trademark or patent rights, or the publicity, personality, and privacy rights of third parties.".

and WMF Legal says

"If you are concerned about content that is not just the marks, but happens to include a mark (like a picture of the office that happens to have a shot of the puzzle globe on wall in it), those images are fine to license under CC BY-SA or any other copyright license. Even if the Foundation does not claim copyright on those images, we do claim trademark rights to the marks contained in those images. This means a reuser can use the image that contains the marks, but they cannot use the marks themselves without committing trademark infringement."

--Guy Macon (talk) 18:02, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Template:Infobox comic book title

Setting the parameter

| 1shot = Y

in the "Infobox comic book title" does not seem to be automatically adding [[Category:One-shot comic titles]]. See this edit for reference. Is there something more complex than just setting that value to Y in play?
Thanks,
2pou (talk) 23:45, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

@2pou: It seems to only add that category (and others) if |sort= is set. See Template talk:Infobox comic book title#Auto-categorization. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Interesting... Thanks for the help! -2pou (talk) 01:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

January 14

Thanking Editors

When clicking the "thank" link, I'm asked to confirm that I want to "publicly send thanks". How, exactly, is it public? I've found no means of seeing who thanked whom. Am I missing something, or is this just a general warning that it potentially could become publicly visible at some future point in time?Quickfix333 (talk) 02:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Quickfix333: Special:Log/thanks (which is at the Page tab → Page logs → All logs). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 02:21, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Good to know, thanks. Quickfix333 (talk) 03:16, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Application of "Subsequent use" style guideline for people's names

Is the subject's name in the lead of a biographical article considered "initial mention" for purposes of WP style guidelines? Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography#Subsequent use says, "After the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only, ..." I ask that question after an edit changed the beginning of the "Early life" section of William Hartnell from "Hartnell" to "William Henry Hartnell" with the edit summary "Restore full name to first section, as it is the first usage outside of lead." Eddie Blick (talk) 02:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teblick, The lead does not count for initial mention. Generally, someone's full birth name will be noted in the Early life section (with some exceptions of course), and just surname from there. But their name should also be listed in the lead, as a lead should summarize an article, and present no new information. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, CaptainEek; I appreciate your clarification. I wish the style guide had specified that the lead does not count. I tend to read things literally, so I didn't realize that an exception exists. Eddie Blick (talk) 03:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@CaptainEek: are you sure? Where are you getting this information from? In the absence of a conflicting guideline, why are you concluding "initial mention" actually means "initial mention outside the lead"? (Courtesy ping Eddie Blick) – Teratix ₵ 03:42, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teratix, Ya know, I could be wrong here, perhaps its me that has misinterpreted the guideline. But I've seen it the way I suggest more than the other. Perhaps that just means that such pages are out of MOS compliance, but I think the MOS does need clarifying in that case. For example, Donald Trump's article lists his full name at the beginning of the lead, and also at the beginning of the early life section. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 03:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I read through several FAs; they mostly, though not exclusively, employ CaptainEek’s style. I personally dislike it, as it seems browbeating to present the same information twice to the reader. – Teratix ₵ 04:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Teratix, This could probably warrant a request for comment, or at least a discussion on the MOS page, as there is some uncertainty here. While I do it my way(cus I thought it was policy tbh, but now see that policy is vague), I agree that it does kinda feel like browbeating. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 04:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I have opened such a discussion at MOSBIO talk. – Teratix ₵ 05:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for starting that discussion, Teratix. Eddie Blick (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

State and local political sex scandals in the United States

This page is incomplete and misleading. For instance, David Dreier never served in state or local government, yet he is on this page. Also, the scandal that landed him on a page like this does not meet the definition of scandal laid out on the Federal sex scandal page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mediaexpert3 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mediaexpert3. I have removed Dreier from that category, as no scandals are mentioned in his article.--Quisqualis (talk) 06:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Good work, thanks. He is also featured on the List of federal political sex scandals in the United States even though, like I said, his situation does not meet the criteria laid out as a "scandal." Shall I edit that page? Mediaexpert3 (talk) 07:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

You can edit Dreier's page. At the bottom, the categories are listed. Remove the federal sex scandal one.--Quisqualis (talk) 07:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Redirect codes

I often see explanatory codes underneath the first line of Redirects. Where is there an explanation of these codes? If I am creating a redirect (and redirects are cheap, and are encouraged if they are useful), where is there information on which of these codes I should use? Robert McClenon (talk) 08:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Are you thinking of those listed at Template:R template index or more comprehensively at Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages? --David Biddulph (talk) 08:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

What to do?

Hi, I have been asked continuously to add award column (in infobox ) in Shamsheer Vayalil article. Though I think the anon. IP request is genuine (as per Template:Infobox) but I can't take any risk in adding the award column in infobox. Anyone interested then, help in sorting out this IP user problem. (Ankitroy1997 (talk) 10:17, 14 January 2020 (UTC))

@Ankitroy1997: You are the latest addition to an ever-increasing group of editors who have been repetitively asked by dynamic-IP editors to add unnecessary detail to the Shamsheer article. The talk page, as you have noted, reveals that the awards edit has been requested previously (possibly more than once) and been declined. If you do not wish to become involved, write a polite reply at your talk page to say so. There's no burden on you to make edits others request but aren't willing to learn to do themselves. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 11:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

In this case, there is a CIR/IDHT problem that caused them (a single IP editor comprising two young people) to be asked by someone last year to not edit the page themselves. They keep canvassing for new victims, who are usually sorry they responded, so I've tried to at least point new potential victims to the article talk page to see the history. Other solutions welcome. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: They once again edited my talk page with the similar request.They also told that they want betterment of articles. They also know that I belong from India so, I think they find "brotherhood" in me. Their demand is to add awards column(Pravasi Bharatiya Samman,2014) in infobox. I also think their request is "genuine" this time(don't know about previous ones).

Till now I have only edited Madhuri Dixit article( interested in actors and actresses article) and that also in paragraph not in infobox. Editing infobox is a serious job because it's difficult to manage space there. I don't want to hurt them or anyone emotionally in the beginning or even in future. I have seen you and others have helped them a lot. Help them for the last time and think you are helping me instead. After this I'll also start ignoring their matter. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 13:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ankitroy1997: If you want to do so, it's relatively simple to add the award to the infobox. If you click 'edit source', once the edit window opens you will see a line about 12-15 lines down 'awards ='. Leave a space after the equals sign and add the text. Preview it and publish if you are happy with it. However, other editors have felt it not to be notable and have declined it. If it is added again there's always the possibility that it will be removed. The IP-editor should not ask multiple editors for the same or similar edits. I don't think it could be considered canvassing but it's not really in the spirit of Wikipedia. (There's a 'loose' consensus that the award should not be included). Eagleash (talk) 14:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: It that correct? Please see the article Shamsheer Vayalil and tell. I think I did it. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Not quite. I have fixed it as part of this edit. The 'pipe' (vertical line at the start of the row is vitally important). I have also removed 'residence' as it is an unsupported parameter. Eagleash (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash: Do you also find something wrong I mean to say it is "Pravasi Bharatiya saman" instead of Pravasi Bharatiya Samman (2014)? Ankitroy1997 (talk) 15:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes; you misspelled it and missed the capital S – and then came here to point out the error... !? I have fixed it... Eagleash (talk) 15:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Update/Delete faulty page

Hello, having problems with this Wikipedia page i made, it needs some agent updates. Because it is displaying a wrong message to people so i was asking how can i edit or delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orinea (talk • contribs) 12:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Orinea: Which "page", and what do you mean by "agent updates"? What are you seeing? The only recent edit by you appears to be to your User:Orinea/sandbox, to add File:Comedy Kings Network LOGO.png. BTW, where did you get that logo? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

There's also Draft:Comedy Kings Network which contains an error message. Details of how to fix it can be found at Template:Warning VisualEditor bug. Eagleash (talk) 14:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Orinea. I see that you uploaded the logo to Commons with a declaration that you are the copyright owner: this means that you have a Conflict of interest in writing about this organisation, and you are discouraged (though not forbidden) from writing about it. Further, If you receive remuneration from it in any way, you must comply with the policy on WP:paid editing.

The reason that editing with a COI is hard is that it is difficult to be neutral in tone. Remember that Wikipedia is really not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves: it is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject have chosen to say about it, and been published in reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Orinea: Before you waste any more time on this, please read and study our notability requirements for organizations. See WP:NCORP. Really. I mean it. Wikipedia wants an article on every notable subject. Wikipedia does not want and will delete an article on any subject that is not notable by our definition, which is frustrating for you and irritating for us. None of the references in you current sandbox are suitable to establish notability. We end up deleting about 200 articles every day. You may be able to find a more appropriate web site for your material: see WP:OUT. -Arch dude (talk) 16:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Coppia Italia 2019 - 2020

There is no mention anywhere of Palermo, nor are shown on the map but, they are definitely in the competition so why have they been completely excluded? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.44.51.247 (talk) 14:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Where is your published reliable source that says they are in the tournament this year? Did their exclusion from Serie B not also exclude them from the Coppa Italia? --David Biddulph (talk) 15:13, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

How do I archive my user talk page?

My user talk page is getting a bit cluttered, and I want to archive it. How can I do so? Thanks! Félix An (talk) 15:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Start here Help:Archiving a talk page - X201 (talk) 15:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Félix An: I took the liberty of adding an archive box for you, but of course, you can get rid of it if you like! ——SN54129 15:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: Thanks! Félix An (talk) 15:14, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

wikipedia page

Hello, I used to have a wikipedia page and I see that it has disappeared. How can I find it with all the contents that were on it? It was well written so was wondering if it is in an archive somewhere. How can I get it back online?Mcbfr19 (talk) 15:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mcbfr19 and welcome to Wikipedia. Unfortunately, according to your stats, you haven't actually written any articles yet  :) perhaps you used a different account? It's very difficult identifying the article without a title, you see :) ——SN54129 15:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Mcbfr19: Do you mean that you were the subject of a Wikipedia article? If so we will need the name of the article to answer your question. -Arch dude (talk) 16:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Proofreading

How does anyone do proofreading on wiki sites? There are times i would like to help with this. I'm not perfect but have some background through a school newspaper. That was a long time ago so i am a little rusty but still think it is possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:38CA:9750:24C1:3B6B:16F8:5E2D (talk) 16:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for offering to help. You are free to just jump in and edit Wikipedia articles to improve them as you see fit. However the editors who enjoy this sort of work have formed a project and have a lot of information about their work. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. -Arch dude (talk) 17:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in editing Wikipedia! It can always use more copyeditors. I'd recommend you register an account, which will give you access to various gadgets and customizable settings that make life easier here. It also facilitates communication with other editors, an important part of our model. Please also see our Manual of Style. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 15:47, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikiredia

(This Help Desk is not really a suitable place for this question.) Does anyone know about Wikiredia? It's a mirror of Wikipedia, but unlike Wikipedia it allows Google to spider its talk pages. You might think it doesn't have talk pages, because its (copies of our) articles don't link to them; but I found it from a Google search which took me to one. Maproom (talk) 16:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

No, but from my first look it seems like a violation of Wikipedias license since there is no form of attribution(I'm on mobile right now, possible that I missed something, but I dont think so). Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 06:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Issues with a wikipedia help

Hello, my name is Alvaro Gonzalez. I am trying to solve issues with the following Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denise_Rousseau, but I am unable to understand why they arise. Can someone help me?

Best regards. Alvaro — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlvaroGM88 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@AlvaroGM88: Please read the links in the "issues" box on the page. Basically, Wikipedia needs secondary sources, not primary sources, and those secondary sources need to meet certain criteria: see WP:RS. -Arch dude (talk) 17:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Protected pages

I have done 25+ edits on wikipedia in just two days of joining. I also want to edit protected pages. What is the procedure for that? Ankitroy1997 (talk) 19:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997, once your account is four days old, you should be able to edit semi-protected pages. See Wikipedia:Protection policy § Semi-protection and Wikipedia:User access levels § Autoconfirmed users for details. Eman235/talk 19:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997 Is there a particular reason that you want to edit protected articles? That's not something that new users typically seek out to do. 331dot (talk) 19:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@331dot: Hahaha!!!.. Don't be afraid my friend. I want to tell you that my interest is in editing actors and actresses article as well as in billionaires also. Some of the articles( the articles which I described above)are protected and we are not allowed to access them. This is the only reason. Ankitroy1997 (talk) 04:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Ankitroy1997 Who is "we"? 331dot (talk) 10:20, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

331dot "we" means new editors who are new to wikipedia (like me).Ankitroy1997 (talk) 12:29, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ankitroy1997: even before you are autoconfirmed, you can make suggestions on the articles' talk pages. When you do start directly editing, I strongly recommend that you study the WP:BLP policy since it appears that those are the types of articles you are interested in. It's one of our very few core policies, and inadvertent violations are one of our biggest problems. And thanks for helping! -Arch dude (talk) 06:51, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Conflicting information

Hi, just wanted to point out that this page states that this person both did and did not have children:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabwedaung_Mibaya

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.15.64.170 (talk) 19:12, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

The no-offspring statement is apparently sourced but requires a page No. as the online archived book is of 645 pages and search of contents using Zabwedaung Mibaya did not reveal the info. The 3-children statement appears unsourced and I removed it and copied it oput of the i/bx. I also left a note at the TP of the editor who created the page, hoping for clarification. Eagleash (talk) 21:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Reference error that isn't visible

Greetings,

does anyone here know where the reference error on User:Jo-Jo Eumerus/1669 Etna eruption comes from? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:31, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Those refs are defined in the refs list but never used in the article, just like the message says. If you search on the ref name in the error message, you will find the definition in the ref list. MB 19:53, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@MB: Problem is, there is no error message anywhere... Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Then what is it that you see that indicates there is a ref error? Eagleash (talk) 21:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Eagleash:The page is listed in Category:User pages with reference errors, which is being triggered by some template as there is no string "User pages with reference errors" in the article text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: The error messages are in the HTML of the rendered page but are hidden by default. I can see them in Firefox by choosing "View page source" and then looking for the word "error". User:MB/common.css contains the line .brokenref {display: inline !important;} which, I think, makes them show up. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

That CSS works, the message is that "Castagnino1994" and "Azzaro1999" aren't being used. – Thjarkur (talk) 23:15, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus, I've been gone all day. I saw the error messages but didn't realize it was because I had special CSS; that must have been something I added years ago. MB 23:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks,^^that did it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:14, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Confused

Hi - I used the Username TerraVanStern but my name is Margi White and I was trying to post something about 1) my boss Terra Vanzant Stern 2) Our company and 3) Leaner Six Sigma which is a system we used that is getting a lot of attention lately. I got a message back that I couldn't write about myself but I was writing about my boss - is this still something you can't do. And, Finally since I'm a new user I really can't find my user page. I looked under the user name I used but it says a page hasn't been created. Thank you very much. All the info I gave for the short three pages I created (that I hope I can add to later) can be verified if you go to our website www.SSDGlobal.net. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by TerraVanStern (talk • contribs) 20:19, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

TerraVanStern, You can write about yourself, but it is strongly discouraged. Same goes for writing about anyone you know personally. My personal recommendation is as follows:

1) Disclose paid editing per WP:PAID (assuming you are being paid to do so). Not doing so while being paid is a good way to get blocked from the site indefinitely, per the WMF Terms Of Service.

2) Change username as to not impersonate your boss

3) Very carefully review the notability guidelines and the person notability guidelines.

4) Resume writing the article at your own risk, a large number of reviewers will end up holding you to high standards if you're a paid editor

For note, user pages are for internal use only. No-one will ever actually see them on, say, google, as they are not indexed.

--MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 20:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I've looked over the two drafts you created. Neither would be accepted, as the subjects do not satisfy WP:GNG. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@TerraVanStern: I would like to emphasize Clarityfiend's point. Before you waste any more time on this, please read and study our notability requirements for organizations. (WP:NCORP) and for individuals (WP:NPERSON). Really. I mean it. Wikipedia wants an article on every notable subject. Wikipedia does not want and will delete an article on any subject that is not notable by our definitions, which is frustrating for you and irritating for us. None of the references in you current sandbox are suitable to establish notability. We end up deleting about 200 articles every day. You may be able to find a more appropriate web site for your material: see WP:OUT. -Arch dude (talk) 20:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Where to go to get advice on a policy dispute

Quite simply, there seems to be a dispute among us about list policy. I want to know the right place to go to in order to ask the general editor population to weigh in on the policy itself. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Methodist Churches in Leicester is the AfD where it has come up. Jerod Lycett (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jerodlycett: Generally, on the talk page of the policy in question. In this case I cannot determine the exact nature of the policy or of the dispute, so maybe start by articulating that in concisely. -Arch dude (talk) 21:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Arch dude: The policy in question is WP:LISTPURP, with an aside of that vs WP:NOTDIR. That seems to be the entire debate across that and two related lists up for deletion. I'm WP:TIRED of the debate that I accidentally started, and honestly took a moment to convince myself to not AN/I the whole thing. Jerod Lycett (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jerodlycett: (Minor note) LISTPURP is a MOS guideline and not a policy; NOTDIR is a policy. — MarkH₂₁^talk 22:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Request for help to upload/replace main image on my father's Wikipedia

Hello,

My father, Pampero Firpo, was a professional wrestler who died on January 9, 2020.

I'd like to update the main photo on his Wikipedia page, since the one that is on there now has a big line through the center of it.

I'm being disallowed from updating the picture on his Wiki page, and I can't seem to attach it here.

Could someone who is an 'authorized user' please help me out?

His wikipedia page is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pampero_Firpo

The image that I want to replace his main one with is a promotional photo from my Dad's personal collection.

Thanks,

John Kachmanian, son of Pampero Firpo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkachman (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Please accept my condolences on your loss. Regarding the image, you are not being permitted to upload it because you don't have 10 edits(though you are only three away); if you get 10 edits, you should be able to upload it. See WP:UPIMAGE for more information. You will want to make sure that you have the correct copyright for the photo- the copyright for promotional photos usually belongs to the photographer or agent and not the subject of the photo(or in this case, his estate). Others probably have better advice than I do. Again, I am sorry for your loss. 331dot (talk) 22:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jkachman: getting involved with the details of copyright law is the last thing you need at a time like this, so I hope we can help you avoid too much frustration. I know that professional wrestlers often have dedicated fans, some of whom take pictures for them. If you know one of these folks, you might request that they upload a picture to which they own the copyright, instead of fighting through this yourself. The reason it's hard it that we try hard to obey the law, and copyright law is truly messy. If you encounter a problem, please immediately come back here for additional help. -Arch dude (talk) 07:01, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

January 15

Publishing a draft article

I have created a draft article (CMTPedS), how do I update to a published article so that it is visible to everyone and comes up in searches? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshua.T.Burns (talk • contribs) 00:20, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

​You submit it for review by adding {{subst:submit}} at top. I've submitted it for you. Most of the cited sources come from an author with the same name as your username, if you are that person I would recommend reading WP:COI. – Thjarkur (talk) 00:25, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Translation article

I created my first translation article Kurchenko Andrii Ihorovych. The title for some reason displays the word Draft: Should that be the case? Who will help me rename? Thank you --Knignik 2 (talk) 00:21, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

You submit it for review by adding {{subst:submit}} at top. I've submitted it for you, getting a review can take anywhere from one day to several weeks. – Thjarkur (talk) 00:33, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL

HI I GRADUATED FROM SANTA FE HIGH SCHOOL IN 1976, SANTA FE IS NOT PART OF THE HOUSTON METROPLOITAN HOUSTON IS HARRIS COUNTY SANTA FE IS IN GALVESTON COUNTY IN BETWEEN GALVESTON AND HOUSTON, SANTA FE USE TO BE CALLED ALTA LOMA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.28.94.217 (talk) 07:38, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Presumably this refers to the lede paragraph in Santa Fe High School (Texas). (There are several other Santa Fe High Schools.)

Are you sure you understand what is meant by "Houston metropolitan area"? While the city of Houston is indeed in Harris County, Texas, the Houston metropolitan area aka "Greater Houston" also includes eight other counties, including Galveston County, Texas. All nine of these counties are tabulated in the section Greater Houston#Demographics.

If you have further queries, feel free to make them here, but please:

(a) do not use ALL CAPITALS as this is often interpreted as SHOUTING and is considered to be rude – I know you likely did not intend to seem rude but some people are so put off by ALL CAPITALS that they won't bother to read any question that is so typed: also

(b) please end your post with four tildes, i.e. ~~~~. This automatically adds your signature (in your case your IP address) plus a time and date, all of which helps us to keep track of who is saying what in the conversation. If you don't have a tilde key on your device, you can copypaste it from the drop-down menus at the bottom of the editing box: the tilde is the first character in the 'Symbols' menu. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.208.126 (talk) 10:04, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Category

Can anyone help me to create a category page? Category:Rail transport in Kolkata I thought it like a simple article page, but it seems different. Please help.  :) S A H A  10:23, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Arnabsaha2212: You already created it. I reverted [2] text which is automatically displayed if there are subcategories or pages (there currently isn't). Maybe the parent categories should follow a pattern in subcategories of Category:Rail transport in India by city. When creating a new category, I always look for similar categories to select the content. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:59, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Arnabsaha2212: I changed the categories it was in based on its sibling Category:Rail transport in Mumbai. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:15, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Little bit lost

Hello ! I really don't know where to go, I have encountered a problem on a page (European Collectivity of Alsace) where an editor keeps readding outdated data with no source. I have added an official source for 2020, dating back from december 2019 (so one month ago). So that would be an edit war. A strange one, but still.

What's now really distressing is that the user is not doing that nicely. I wrote a very polite summary for my edit (Readded the correct 2020 population estimate. Added source for referendum. Added a short history. Good day.), and I have that now :

• "Your petulance is only making you look bad. The estimate is already obsolete. Check the meaning of that word: "obsolete"."
• "Your estimate is not sourced - where is the link to a specific page? - while the official 2017 census is sourced."
  • The user is lying... if you check the diff, I am the one that provided a source, they did not...
• "Edit war starters usually get their come-uppance sooner rather than later."
• Finally, on my talk page : "The presumptuous tone and counter-factual attitude that you adopt here will not make you many friends. It is true that there was a population estimate for 2020, made in 2019. But since the publication of the official census figures for 2017 by INSEE, on December 30, 2019, this figure has become fanciful and this estimate, obsolete. Given the growth rate of the departments of Bas-Rhin and Haut-Rhin since 2007, the total population in 2020 is necessarily higher than that of 2017, which is higher than the estimate that you revere so much. Give up the worship of this idol."

Where should I go ? What should I do ? That isn't a basic content dispute, it's really exhausting and distressing... CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 12:00, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

The place to discuss edits to an article is on its talk page, in this case Talk:European Collectivity of Alsace. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @CocoricoPolynesien: I've only had time for a quick look. It seems to me that the 2019 figure was an estimate. I.e. a 'guessed' or extrapolated figure which may or may not be accurate. It seems that once the 2017 census figures have been audited or checked they become the official figures and would take precedence over the estimate. It might be OK to include both figures making it clear that 2019 is an estimate. Please try to resolve with the other editor involved to reach a consensus, preferably at the article talk page. Help in resolving disputes can be found at WP:DR and WP:BRD. Eagleash (talk) 12:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you both for your answer ! I agree, however the 2020 data were published after the 2017 ones by the exact same gov agency, making them more recent. I don't see how a 2017 census would have precedence over a more recent 2020 estimate. I will use the talk page as you advised me, and probably add the 2017 census (if of course I find a source because the other editor didn't provide one !).Done. Problem is, it doesn't solve the agressiveness of the other editor and its attacks... Thank you, CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 12:40, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Question

How to suggest changes/updates to a specific article— Preceding unsigned comment added by Indianboyzz (talk • contribs)

The best thing to do is to be bold and make the changes yourself. If you don't wish to do that, or can't due to page protection, you should make an edit request on the article talk page of the article you wish to see changed. 331dot (talk) 14:49, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

2 questions

Hello,

I have two questions. My first question is when I review AFC submissions, how can I prevent submissions from being added to my watchlist? My second question is I'm going to be on vacation until Monday. Because of this, I won't be as active during that time. I would like to have some talk page stalkers answer questions on my talk page just in case I'm offline. How can I find some? Please ping me in your reply. Interstellarity (talk) 16:02, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

​1. I think you can turn off Preferences > Watchlist > Add pages and files I move to my watchlist. 2. You could just add a "Away for a few days. Other editors: feel free to reply to questions here" on top, maybe someone at this help desk decides to watchlist it. Most things here aren't that time-sensitive, so you can also just enjoy the vacation :) – Thjarkur (talk) 16:17, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Interstellarity: 1. If you don't want to change the preference mentioned above, assuming you see the moved/edited submission page after you save it, click the blue star tab at the top to uncheck it. 2. Maybe mention it at WT:AFC for the attention of other AFCers? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:26, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur and AlanM1: Thanks for your help. That fixes the problem. Interstellarity (talk) 16:29, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Would like there to be more clarity in climate statistics labels

I recently noticed that for a given city, the climate statistics display includes not only "average high" but also "mean maximum" (and likewise for "average low" and "mean minimum") labels for each month of the year.

Because "high" and "maximum" are synonyms, as are "low" and "minimum", as well as "average" and "mean", I sought clarification. None was to be found in the text immediately below the climate statistics display.

There is, however, in teeny type at the *top* of the climate statistics display, a reference to the following footnote:

"Mean monthly maxima and minima (i.e. the expected highest and lowest temperature readings at any point during the year or given month) calculated based on data at said location from 1981 to 2010."

Maybe if I thought about it a great deal, I could figure out how this differs from the monthly "average high" but right now I find it to be nothing but confusing.

So: My question is this: Where can I join a discussion among Wikipedia editors who might be persuaded to make the meanings of these designations much, much, clearer to readers?50.205.142.35 (talk) 18:35, 15 January 2020 (UTC)