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Butch Hartman again

I was looking at the Danny Phantom page and notice a fair bit of it maybe Self-published as well as questionable sources as sources on themselves so i start looking at other pages related to Butch Hartman and notice samiler they see Template:Butch Hartman for full list of the pages. usally for his youtube channel Added on 12 August 2020 by Fanoflionking

You're asking about the article on Danny Phantom (a children's animated superhero television series) and related articles. I took a quick look at the article Danny Phantom, though not at the others. You're right. Many of the sources are completely inadequate. If there were eight days in the week, I would (i) remove any "reference" that's to a web page of a retailer (e.g. Amazon); (ii) change any remaining "reference" that doesn't purport to be a reference to a "note" if it seems to have some value, delete it if it doesn't seem to have value; (iii) remove any references or notes to Youtube videos that aren't indisputably uploaded by their copyright holders; (iv) remove anything else that seems dubious; (v) sprinkle a very large number of "Citation needed" templates on the resulting article. However, there aren't eight days in the week (and I am ashamed to confess to a complete lack of interest in kids' animated superhero television series). Perhaps somebody with more time or interest would like to implement my suggestion (or similar). -- Hoary (talk) 22:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

stared with DP tonight I will carry on the next few days, remove anything that looks too inadequate. Fanoflionking 21:01, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Caption text

page	remove questionable sources	time done	date done	page protect	time done	date done	tag added	date	time
Butch Hartman	yes	12:34	August 14, 2020	no	no	no	yes	August 14, 2020	23:41
The Fairly OddParents		10:48	August 15, 2020					August 15, 2020	10:48
Danny Phantom		22:32	August 13, 2020					August 14, 2020	23:44
The Magic Roundabout (film)		16:16	August 16, 2020				no	no	no
: Template:Butch Hartman		09:51	August 17, 2020

here are main pages if any one know any more where there qustionable data go ahead and added it on P+T

DP page protection was Declined for "Some dubious sourcing in the past isn't a good reason to protect it now. If they all start coming back, then it may be something to consider for a short period" so I will not requst page protection of the others and will carry on fixing the pages on the next copile of days Fanoflionking 08:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

The one article that I looked at cited a lot of junk sources. But it's likely that other editors would disagree, insisting that no, these aren't junk sources. You should explain what you are doing, not here but in the talk page(s) of the relevant article(s). Please write carefully and read anything carefully before hitting the blue "Publish changes" rectangle. No spelling mistakes, no grammar mistakes, just concise, intelligible, persuasive text. -- Hoary (talk) 13:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I have also added factual accuracy tags to the pages to notifce page readers. Fanoflionking 15:19, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

done all i can hopefully it will no longer be a promblem Fanoflionking 08:53, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Article Creation

Hi,I really love writing and reading. So far I've written about 10 dialogues and compositions and I want to create an article. The problem is that I don't know how to. Lady Pakun .k (talk) 11:36, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Lady Pakun .k, and welcome to the Teahouse.

Please see #Article Approval inquiry below, where I answered much the same question for an unregistered user. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 13:27, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

New-to-Wikipedia editors are advised to put in more time editing existing articles before trying to create one. Good luck, either way. David notMD (talk) 06:04, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Lady Pakun .k |If you want to actually create an article,listen to David notMD . Probably after your 20th or 50th edit, you may be geared up for advice, but if you don't want advice, I think you may want to read the pages related to wikipedia article policies after your 100th edit .Nihaal The Wikipedian (talk) 11:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Citing Law Suits in a BLP

1. Trying to add a Legal Citation copied a paragraph of the actual Judgement and wiki editors keep deleting it saying it's a "Copyright violation" the thing is the Source is a Official Legal Public Data base (Canlii) and specifically allows copying and citation which I properly cited.

"...legal materials published on the CanLII website, such as legislation, decisions and commentary, including editorial enhancements inserted into the documents by CanLII such as hyperlinks and information in headers and footers, can be copied, printed and used by Users free of charge and without any other authorization from CanLII, provided that CanLII is identified as the source of the document."https://www.canlii.org/en/info/terms.html"

2. How to add the Law suits including a copy of the Judgment Paragraphs into the BLP,

3. The BLP is Non Neutral as is without the addition of Legal citations and currently includes a Lawsuit that the BLP "Won" but none of the other and some related Lawsuits which I want to add.

An not related to the party am aware of the industry and law suit cited in the original article and trying to contribute a balanced in context info. Please advise. DragonFireWar (talk) 18:54, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

DragonFireWar, lawsuits are usually copyrighted and under license, and often these licenses aren't compatible with Wikipedia's license (linked in the page footer). You should instead write an original summary (careful to not violate WP:NOR) of the suit and use Wikipedia's citation feature to cite the lawsuit and media reports ext. Ed talk! 19:05, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Hello, DragonFireWar and welcome to the Teahouse.

Court decisions and opinions, as well as the actual texts of laws, are not protected at all under US copyright laws. This goes back to Wheaton v. Peters, and there have been a number of broader holdings since. So anyone claiming that quoting a court decision is a copyright violation is simply mistaken.

However, a court decision is a WP:PRIMARY source, and the relevant policy section says: Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them. ... A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. ... Use extra caution when handling primary sources about living people. and WP:BLPPRIMARY (which is linked to from WP:PRIMARY) says, in relevant part Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. I think this case falls under Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person, so you should seek a secondary source that interprets the court decision and puts it in context. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 19:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Ed6767 court decisions are public domain under US copyright law -- I can find additional case law if you want it. No one can put them under any license, and attempts to do so have been overturned by SCOTUS. However, the primary source issue is significant here, and would apply to a paraphrase sourced to the decision. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 19:11, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

To: Ed6767 - Seriously the problem with a lot of "Editors" on wiki is that they say and think stuff without any fact checking a published Legal Judgement by Courts in the US and Canada in fact most if not all Western Countries are a matter of Public Record and not copyrighted and/or incompatible with wiki or it's license terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonFireWar (talk • contribs) 19:22, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

To: DESiegel - Thanks for the response your statement is factual and makes a lot of sense.

To clarify I simply want to list the Law Suits in this persons BLP without making any assertions or even one word of my own - simply the Law Suits and a Summary Judgement Paragraph copied with a proper citation that's all. This keeps being deleted by people who are claiming "Copyvio" like experienced wiki editor DMacks - "DMacks talk contribs‎ 8,386 bytes -5,599‎ same coypvio again Undid revision...".

How can this bogus removal of my contributions for this one BLP based on non existent Copy Violation be stopped? Note that other Wiki BLP's have a laundry list of Lawsuits on Wiki! — Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonFireWar (talk • contribs) 19:28, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

@DragonFireWar: First, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (unfortunately). DESiegel's statement seek a secondary source that interprets the court decision and puts it in context is the key point. Direct transcipts of a court case can be full of all sorts of things that are irrelevant or downright wrong (procedural irregularities like objections, uncorrected transcription mistakes, etc.). As a tertiary source, we report what secondary sources have written; we need those sources to interpret, distill, and summarize the information and explain what of it is significant and why. We can then report on what those sources said.

As a hypothetical example, Giant Corp., with $5B in annual net income, gets sued 100 times a year, sometimes asking for millions of dollars in damages. 90 of those suits are either won by the company, dismissed, or just die of old age (the suits, not the plaintiffs). Ten of them are settled for a total of $1.5M. Is this significant? Are any of the individual suits significant? $1.5M could easily be less than the cost of fighting them. Often, they might be contractual disputes, where they owed something between $x and $y to a vendor, and needed a court to settle on the number, not find that they did anything wrong. We need that analysis by sources to tell us.

DESiegel, I noticed in the CanLI license quoted above that they release their own "editorial enhancements" freely as well. Do you know if the US prohibition against putting them under any license includes such editorial enhancements that Cornell, LexisNexis, etc. add to their products? Can/do they copyright the presentation and not the data? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

AlanM1 I believe that is a somewhat complex area. Original commentary that is separate from a decision or a law is clearly an original work, and subject to copyright protection. But when the comentary becomescl;osely intertwined with the PD content, it can lose protection. There was a case a few years ago.e a state (I'm thinking Georga or Alabama) had made an exclusive deal,with a publisher (perhaps lexis?) to put out the "enhanced and annotated" version of the state code of laws, which was re-enacted and authorized annually. Someone distributed an open-source version o0f the code, and the publisher sued for copyright infringement, based i8n part on their "independent" head notes and such "editorial enhancements". The publisher lost, the op0en-source project won. But I think that the state legislative committee had been in the habit of approving and enacting the version with the enhancements, and that was part of how it lost copyright. All this is from memory -- I read the decision in full, but it was a couple of years ago. I don't recall the case name, but I'm sure I could find it. So the details probably matter in such cases. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:38, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Several quick points... Has anyone bothered to ping @Diannaa: who had first detected this situation as a copyvio? Why are we talking about SCOTUS and US law for Canadian content? I have not studied Canadian-government-content copyright, but after DragonFireWar restored for the third time what Diannaa had removed as copyvio, I looked at https://www.canlii.org/en/info/terms.html and see "legal materials published on the CanLII website, such as legislation, decisions and commentary, including editorial enhancements inserted into the documents by CanLII such as hyperlinks and information in headers and footers, can be copied, printed and used by Users free of charge and without any other authorization from CanLII, provided that CanLII is identified as the source of the document." It's not clear that this is free enough a license. In particular, it does not clearly address reprinting/redistribution or third-party sales. For copyvio, I always err on the side of caution in the absence of consensus, especially when other editors well-versed in copyvio handling have already raised a red flag. I had not (and still am not) taking any position on the BLP, appropriateness of extended quote even if we have license, or other editorial concerns at this time. DMacks (talk) 03:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

United States copyright law is not applicable in Canada. In Canada, government works, including legislation, enjoy copyright protection for 50 years from publication date. This includes legal materials and court documents of the Province of British Columbia, where this court case took place.— Diannaa (talk) 14:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Some of the analysis may have been written by the CanLII people. But the CanLII license is not liberal enough for our purposes either. It's not clear whether or not commercial use or derivative works or indexing are allowed, and they specify that mass reproduction by bots is definitely not allowed. Our license allows all these things.— Diannaa (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Just to clarify, my question to DES was tangential, regarding his discussion about the US case (as an example).

As far as the primary issue of the CanLII license, ... can be copied, printed and used by Users free of charge ... (emphasis mine), I'm guessing that "Users" (capitalized) might be defined somewhere as those who have registered an account (and accepted ToS), and the phrase could easily be interpreted to be talking about use by such Users only – not re-publication. Dianaa's note that they specifically disallow mass reproduction by bots is some evidence of their intent, at least, which I agree we should respect as not being "free enough" license. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

"External indexing of published documents by Web robots when such use is not authorized by the instructions in the robots exclusion file...", and their robots.txt specifies "Disallow: /en/bc/bcca/". That sounds like we are not allowed to host indexable content from the URLs whose content DragonFireWar has copied. DMacks (talk) 03:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Wiki Editors...Many BLP's with Lawsuits listed on wiki have Primary Sources and Copy of Court Documents.

1. I am not copying or linking to court documents that are not Final in terms of Judgement rendered by the Court e.g. Motions and/or Hearings or Affidavits and no Assertions are being made,

Please review and advise on wiki Primary Sources in the context of No Assertions and Final Judgement from the Primary Source actual Judgement Court Docs which are expressly allowed to be copied and linked by the Court in question the BC Supreme Court in Canada BC Supreme Court Copyright Terms,

2. I am copying and linking to FINAL Court Decisions and there is the EXISTING Lawsuit listed in the current NON Neutral BLP,

3. No "Assertions" - As a Primary Source (the actual Court Doc) there is no "Assertion(s)" being made by me I am only copying the Summary Judgment of the Judge in a Final decision by the court,

Further linking to a "third party" as a secondary source is almost impossible due to either non existence and/or third party commercial copyright, adding my own words would require linking to Primary Source that is the Court Document rendering Final Judgement and I do not want to add any of my own words I prefer to stick to the facts,

There appears to be a link being made by Editors and or assumption about "Copyvio" and Assertions - there is no Assertions being made by the contributor only a straight Copy which is allowed by the original source Court documents - the Courts in BC Canada (see Copy and Linking Terms of the BC Supreme Court BC Supreme Court Copyright Terms",

4. BC Court and Canada Government Copyright - The Courts in British Columbia, Canada expressly allow Copy and Linking - see their terms...BC Supreme Court Copyright Terms

"...1. EXTERNAL LINKS BC Supreme Court Copyright Terms

Links from this site to other sites are presented as a convenience to users. The British Columbia Superior Courts do not accept any responsibility for the content, accuracy, reliability, or currency found on these external sites. In addition, different privacy and reproduction policies may apply. Users wishing to rely upon information contained on the external links should consult directly with the source of the information.

The linking to this site from an outside organization does not imply on the part of the British Columbia Superior Courts any endorsement or guarantee of any of the organizations or information (including the right to display such information) found on their respective web sites.

2. COPYRIGHT/PERMISSION TO REPRODUCE

Materials on this website were produced and/or compiled by the British Columbia Superior Courts for the purpose of providing direct access to information about the courts. The Court of Appeal for British Columbia and the Supreme Court of British Columbia are the copyright owners of the information unless otherwise stated.

The decisions and reasons for decision of the British Columbia Superior Courts may be reproduced, in whole or in part without further permission from the individual court.

The official version of the reasons for judgment is the signed original in the court file. In the event that there is a question about the content of a judgment, the original of the judgment in the court file takes precedence. Copies of the original judgment can be obtained by contacting the local registry. A photocopying charge is payable.

Other information on the site is also available for use and may be reproduced, in part or in whole and by any means without change or further permission from the individual court.

In both cases, we ask only that:

Users exercise due diligence in ensuring the accuracy and currency of the materials reproduced; The Court, identified by name, be identified as the source and, The reproduction is not represented as an official version of the material reproduced, or as having been made in affiliation with or with the endorsement of the British Columbia Superior Courts."

5. The BLP is Non Neutral and their is an existing Lawsuit listed therefore other Lawsuits ought to be listed, I'll note that most other BLP's on wiki with Lawsuits have copy and links to Primary Sources including Court Docs, e.g. Justia etc... why would this BLP be any different?

6. As far as Canlii - a Legal Public Database and their Robots terms it appears to be targeted at Search Engines etc - I could ask them for express permission for linking in wiki I am pretty sure they would allow it but I would have to ask them in writing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.110.120.247 (talk) 20:26, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Can I edit the article "Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence"?

I am new to Wikipedia and I want to edit this wiki article Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence because it is full of criticism that isn't scientifically neutral and affected by cultural views on the subject of rejuvenation. I posted a new section in the talk page("The "Scientific controversy" section needs to be removed" without an account) and talked about the problems with the criticism in the article, what next? should I wait for someone to see what I wrote and edit the article?. I am allowed to edit the article myself?. ThunderheadX (talk) 16:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

There is no lock on the article, so you are allowed to edit it. I recommend you read the extensive Talk entries to see if your position has been discussed in the past. And given the contentious history of the article (see changes at View history), expect that your changes might be reverted, which would talk you back to Talk. David notMD (talk) 18:48, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

ThunderheadX: it might also be worth reviewing the policy on original research. You many not add anything which is your own interpretation of a source, or your conclusion from one or more sources. Conversely, if you think there is something in the article which is not supported (directly) by a source, you may remove it. But, as David notMD says, you may need to be prepared for a struggle! Having said that, Wikipedia is not a battleground, and the aim is to reach consensus about what should be in article. --ColinFine (talk) 19:04, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Hello, ThunderheadX and welcome to the Teahouse.

As David notMD says above, any editor may edit that page, it is not protected. But edits should be supported by reliable sources, and for articles dealing with medical topics, as that article does, by sources compliant with WP:MEDRS, a significantly stricter standard of sourcing. Also, removing an entire section well supported by sources is not am usual procedure, and is likely to be reverted. Please read about the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle. If you make a bold edit, and it is reverted, you should then discuss on the article talk page, not repeat the bold edit or otherwise edit war. If the recent post on Talk:Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence was by you, you were not logged in when you made it. You might want to post there while logged in to indicate that this was your posting. I have responded at some length on that talk page, which is the proper place for discussing in detail how to improve that article. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 19:06, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

DESiegel: I have responded to you. How can I provide a source when I simply claim that the sources in the "criticism" doesn't support any real argument against SENS?. Someone just took non-scientific statements and interpreted them as "scientific criticism" against SENS.--ThunderheadX (talk) 23:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Consensus is not reached on the Talk page of the article. Given this, you should not deleted the Scientific controversy section. If there are newer references to cite, cite them. David notMD (talk) 01:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: Above you stated that "Consenus is not reached on the Talk page of the article." Perhaps you meant "has not been reached"? (I hope) Respectfully, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Either that or "has not yet been reached." David notMD (talk) 02:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: I responded to your reply in the talk page. How do I know if a consensus has been reached?, are you going to keep telling me your opinion about what I am saying in the talk page?.

I have very reasonable arguments against the "scientific controversy" section and it is quite clear that the SENS goals are simply judged differently than more conventional medical goals of fighting things that are culturally accepted as "diseases", and the reason is mainly cultural rather than scientific.--ThunderheadX (talk) 17:27, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

And I chose to not reply. David notMD (talk) 17:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I need help to write my first article

I would like to ask if someone can help me to rewrite an article about a contemporary artist.According to the notes I have received, I am having problems with the encyclopedic way to write. Joannych Joannych (talk) 22:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, come on, Joannych! This is not some minor problem with 'encyclopaedic tone' - you are clearly determined, both here and on Spanish Wikipedia to promote an article about this person. And to do it again and again. These pages have been deleted multiple times, on both sites. Robert McClenon might have been gentle with you in commenting about tone of writing but, quite frankly, you need to worry more about how to meet our Notability Criteria, especially WP:NARTIST. Your key priority is to find sufficient published reliable sources to support the article, or it has no chance of becoming an article here. Then you need to write in a neutral, encyclopaedic voice, not as a "big-me-up" promotional piece. If you cannot do that, then please leave it to someone who can. I need to ask: are you employed or paid by the artist to create this page? It seems highly likely to me that you are, or perhaps you are related to them? Either way, please declare any Conflict of Interest you have before further editing. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:20, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I'd noticed the deletions from es:WP when I wrote what's below, but not the deletions from en:WP. Yes, first, Joannych, declare any conflict of interest. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I suppose that you're asking about Draft:Adrian Arguedas Ruano. Here's the first half of a sample:

Adrian Arguedas is one of the most versatile exponents among Costa Rican visual artists and in the last 25 years, as one of the leading, visible and most prominent artists in Latin America.

Exponent of what? Also, this highly laudatory assertion would require very sound referencing -- not just one or two citations of fluffy write-ups in magazines, but instead books, published by university presses or similar, surveying Latin American art.

Here's the second half of the sample:

He used various materiality respects throughout his artistic journey showing great versatility,

Past tense: Is he retired, or dead? What is a "respect"? What's a "materiality respect"? By "journey", do you mean career?

There's no referencing for either the first or the second half of this. I'm sure that many editors could make the English read more smoothly; but thanks to the lack of referencing, for all they (or I) know, this could all be fictional. The whole thing looks like a PR release (complete with an unreferenced list of exhibitions, presented in reverse order).

Start by adding solid references (where these exist). Continue by removing any assertion for which you can't present solid references. Then attend to the prose style of what's left in the draft. -- Hoary (talk) 23:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Joannych - It is not helpful to start multiple threads in the same forum at the same time about the same issue. Do you think that we don't notice that we were still talking to you above? Do you think that we are too stupid or too busy to notice? Editors who ask the same question over and over again, including more than once on the same page, do not get anything useful accomplished that way, but they do annoy the reviewers. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:44, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all for your responds... I don't understand the way you work, it seems to me that you are trying to make so difficult for others to write articles... I can understand that not everyone can write, but you guys have a lot of different links and procedures that we have to follow in order to add information in this online "Free Encyclopedia". Even in Spanish wish is my native language and English, you keep avoiding people to add information. The artist that i am trying to write this article about, have a lot of information about his professional trajectory and artwork style in books articles, TV program, university links, museums, galleries, etc. It is not that I am trying to add his information in Wikipedia today... it is for sure that some day his biography would be part of this encyclopedia just because. I work in a totally different field. I think it is clearly easy to notice that I am not a philologist or literature professional, I don't read books, and I am not a writer... I really want to finish this article because I like to to the best I can, but if you put it so hard i rather not to continue... i am not anybody who like to keep arguing with Nickname people...i don't like arguing at all.. if you consider yourself anonymous then write this article... Joannych Joannych (talk) 00:52, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Joannych has disclosed their COI on their talk page, and I have added the connected contributor template to the draft. The disclosure was i am not getting paid for creating an article.... actually, this is going to be my first article, I am doing this for an artist that i know, it would be based on multiple articles and books about his career.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 01:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you i have requested the article deletion joannych Joannych (talk) 02:07, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry to see this, as I and several other editors have been working on the draft. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Robert McClenon The creator of Draft:Adrian Arguedas Ruano now wants to delete it, and tried PROD, which was rejected as it applies to articles, not drafts. Would a Speedy deletion tag be the right way to go? If so, would you please do the honors? Tagged that way, the creator would have some time to change mind, and then act on that by deleting the Speedy deletion tag. David notMD (talk) 02:32, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

User:David notMD - I have put a G7 tag on the draft with a diff to their comment above. User:Tribe of Tiger - You can contest the deletion. I am not expressing a view at this time on whether to delete, and am only acting as a scribe. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon, David notMD, and Tribe of Tiger: I found evidence that he may be in six museum collections, and was able to confirm one so far. I have removed the deletion tag(s) and done som preliminary cleanup. He appears notable.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:09, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@ThatMontrealIP: thanks, will try to help. I have not searched for sources, just yet. The over the top prose can be remedied, easily...as long as we have sources. Regards, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 03:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: i forgot to ping you also. In short, I'll keep an eye on the user's COI issues and try to rescue the draft.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, User:ThatMontrealIP. This seems to be a case where a difficult editor almost prevented a notable subject from getting an article; but Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, a very large collaborative effort. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Robert McClenon Agreed. We are a collaborative process. Judging an article subject on the basis of an editor seems to be poor policy. Notability should stand alone. We may not “like” a new editor, perhaps because they have not, within a week’s time, or so, instantly understood and complied with our many and varied policies. Who is punished, by our refusal to accept a new article subject, on this basis? Are we to say, “you are a poor WP editor, therefore we will cut off our noses to spite our faces”, and refuse to consider a new article subject, because it has not been properly presented? I think we are better than that, and I am sure that you, as an experienced editor, would obviously agree that a “difficult editor” should not prevent us from adding worthwhile articles. Many thanks to @ThatMontrealIP: for their good work. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 04:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Two Observations

First, I looked at the current version of Draft:Adrian Arguedas Ruano, and I think it is well on its way to being accepted as a C-Class article of an artist whom we should have an article about. The artist's agent didn't do him any service, but Wikipedia volunteers are doing what makes Wikipedia what it is.

Second, User:Joannych - If you don't want to contribute to Wikipedia, you do not have to do anything here. Blanking the article was disruptive, and you have been warned now. Insulting the Wikipedia community is common enough, and the big girls and big boys of the Wikipedia community know how to ignore being insulted by uncooperative editors. Whether you improve your attitude or go away or get blocked is mostly up to you.

Robert McClenon (talk) 15:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

CC-BY-SA IGO 3.0

Is it okay to copy and paste Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 IGO material? Or is still WP:PLAGIARISM. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 02:30, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Aditya Kabir Whilst it is ok to use cc-by-sa text, providing it is clearly licenced and you give attrubution, you are still better to put text in your own words. This will probably be more succinct than the original, but will definitely avoid future problems of someone deleting it in good faith as a copyvio, and sll the arguments and investigations that could potentially then ensue. Nick Moyes (talk) 05:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Makes sense. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 09:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Help to publish a page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Mike_L._Whaley

I have been working on the page for Mike Whaley and have been including articles, references and citations. Can someone let me know if it is ready for publication? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Mike_L._Whaley

Thanks Dreamskygirlsa (talk) 06:37, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Dreamskygirlsa: this submission lacks reliable sources. Wikipedia and other user-generated content isn't considered reliable. Wikipedia may not be used as a reference for Wikipedia. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:29, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

HI,

I have removed the references relating to Wiki, are there enough references now to publish?

Thanks Dreamskygirlsa (talk) 08:01, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Not in my opinion, no. Incidentally, if you want a list, then use an asterisk at the beginning of each line:

• An item
• Another item
• Yet another item

-- Hoary (talk) 08:52, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Dreamskygirlsa, I've amalgamated two of your threads about the same draft. Please don't start new threads on this page willy-nilly. If you have a new question about Draft:Mike L. Whaley, ask it here. -- Hoary (talk) 09:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Alok Singh

• Link: Draft:Alok Singh

Sir i created a article ob the influencer aloke singh y it is not accepted Fashinhub2020 (talk) 06:54, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Fashinhub2020: this page has a lot of unreliable sources. Unreliable sources in this page include, but may not be limited to, Wikipedia (WP:CIRCULAR, WP:UGC), other Wikis or sites with user-generated content. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:17, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I am fascinated by the notion of "official influencer". Which agency certifies influencers? -- Hoary (talk) 08:57, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: I'll bet you thought you were making a joke.[1] Conductor, stop the ride; I'd like to get off now. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 13:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, FMS! -- Hoary (talk) 01:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

A String of SCARY recent developments at WIkipedia

A String of SCARY recent developments at WIkipedia

Recently, there are some string of new pages created on WIkipedia, targeting a particular honorable community in India, i.e. Rajputs, many such article pages have been created in one month to demonize the image of Rajputs in India, where people are infuriating hatred against rajputs by sourcing these wikipedia articles, which is not appreciated. Hence I request the Wikipedia community to take steps to bring down these article from the Wikipedia website.

The links of such articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajputization https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%A4_%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%BC%E0%A4%B2_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A7%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%82_%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%80_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A5%80 Wikimaster2107 (talk) 07:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Wikimaster2107: First things first, this is the English-language Wikipedia, so we cannot do anything about the Hindi-language Wikipedia, which is a separate project.

We are not going to take down an article just because people find it offensive. However, we will rewrite/take down articles if they are not based on reliable sources. Reading Rajputization, the author LukeEmily seems to have used scholarly sources; however, I know nothing about the subject, so I cannot evaluate how they fit in the mainstream academic consensus.

If you can find reliable sources that contradict the article, do bring them by creating the article's talk page and/or notifying Wikiproject India to bring in additional editors. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 08:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

USCGC Courier 410-WAGR/WTR MARAD document reference

How do I properly reference a document substantiating the scrapping of a United States Coast Guard Cutter? The item is known as a part of the ship's MARAD documents. The US Department of Transportation is the issuer. I am sadly stupid about Wikipedia. I have not discovered a proper way to reference this item. Since there has been much confused Wiki talk about when the various ships, each named Courier, were scrapped, I would like to present the proof for the radio broadcasting ship named Courier. Or, if someone Wikipedia wise would do it, I would appreciate it. I have a great love for the ship. I've been aboard many times. It changed my life. I just want the correct facts to be present. Thank you. Courierkid (talk) 10:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy: Article is USCGC Courier (WAGR-410). I tagged the sentence "USCGC Courier 410-WAGR/WTR was decommissioned in 1972 and scrapped in 1977." as citation needed. Courierkid added an image of the MARAD document dating the scrapping in 1977. No mention there of the decommissioned date. David notMD (talk) 10:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

There are other problems with the article that need a military historian's help. Two refs to webcutters (also shown as External links) go to 404 errors. David notMD (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Reason of rejection (Wencke Synak)

Hello dear community,

A Wikipedia admin reviewed the first page I create on Wikipedia: Draft:Wencke Synak, and rejected it because as he said there are no reliable sources.

However, the German actress shows significant coverage being featured in IMDB, Amazon Prime Video, Spotify, Deezer & Cast Upload. This criteria is then fully met!

Moreover, you can look for example in the category of german actresses (in the bottom of the draft) and you'll find that dozens of actresses with lower number of reliable references have their pages published without any note even.

Please, reconsider reviewing the page and tell me your point of view about what I said and if I'm right.

Kind regards RobertLasper (talk) 11:14, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

RobertLasper Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I would first point out that it is a poor argument to cite other similar articles as a reason for yours to exist. As this is a volunteer project where people do what they can when they can, it is possible for inappropriate articles to go undetected, even for years. We can only address what we know about. It could be that the other articles you see are also inappropriate. Standards also change over time, and what was once acceptable may not be any longer. Please see other stuff exists for more information. If you'd care to point out some of these other articles you have seen, we can address them.

Your draft was declined, as you note, because the sources you have given are not independent reliable sources with significant coverage of this actress, showing how she meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable actress. IMDB is not considered a reliable source as it is user-editable. Streaming or social media website also aren't usually considered reliable sources as it is not difficult for any person to post their work (or others') to such places. What is required are reliable sources like news reports or independent reviews that have a reputation of fact checking and editorial control that have chosen on their own to give this actress significant, in depth coverage. Significant coverage goes beyond brief mentions, interviews, and routine announcements. Please see Your First Article for more information. 331dot (talk) 11:20, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Thanks for the clarification.

I fully recognize that citing similar pages is a poor argument. However, it's not just 10 or 20 pages, but more than 50 that I checked and some of them were created/edited recently.

I'm sure that there are hundreds or even thousands of pages of artists that are based on IMDb or Spotify...

IMDb publication can be author-edited but needs to be approved by the admin tea of the website.

Moreover, you can't publish in Spotify, Deezer... If you're not a well-known musician.

I don't want to change the Wikipedia policy about sources :) but let me tell you that all sources I cited are verified and controled.

Also, please give me advices of reliables sources for artists.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertLasper (talk • contribs) 12:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

RobertLasper Yes, it is entirely possible that there are hundreds if not thousands of articles that do not meet guidelines and should not be present on Wikipedia. Again, as this is a volunteer project, people do what they can when they can, and evidently someone has not taken the time to weed out inappropriate articles about German actresses. If that's something you want to undertake(I'm guessing not), feel free.

Please read WP:RS to learn more about what reliable sources are. A site that merely publishes, say, music or films does not establish notability. It might be okay as a source for what work they have done, but that would be all. 331dot (talk) 12:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

 105.234.166.2 (talk) 13:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes of course, I can go ahead and edit those pages too. But I'll need to know example of reliable sources for artists. I've read the articles of Wikipedia in this sense but I still need more help from an experienced admin here.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertLasper (talk • contribs) 14:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

RobertLasper Any editor can help you with this, not just an administrator. I'm not aware of specific sources considered reliable for artists. But in general a source is considered reliable if it has a reputation of fact checking and editorial control. That disqualifies things like blogs that are not overseen by an editor and do not check or verify things they claim as facts. Usually reliable sources includes news reports(though not interviews with the subject) or independent, unsolicited reviews of the subject or their work. 331dot (talk) 14:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Though it's not just for artists, a general list of sources and their level of reliability can be found at this link. 331dot (talk) 14:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Again,

Please tell me what do you think about the following sources: https://www.rtl.de/cms/besuch-auf-der-kinderkrebsstation-diese-maerchenkoenigin-zaubert-kranken-kindern-ein-laecheln-auf-die-lippen-4104678.html http://jjschreibt.de/2016/beruehren-wie-es-nur-die-kunst-kann/ https://www.schauspielervideos.de/fullprofile/schauspielerin-wencke-synak.html http://sofahelden.com/index/artikel/Interview-mit-Schauspielerin-Wencke-Synak/8436

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertLasper (talk • contribs) 17:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Help with moving #Draft:Francis Baraan IV to article space

Hi, guys! I noticed that in my draft for #Draft:Francis Baraan IV, it says there are multiple issues and sources are questionable. Which among the sources are questionable? It is just a stub, and the sources I gave are reliable, independent, and are all verifiable. They have editorial oversight, too. Please help me improve it by letting me know where to improve.

Thank you. MediaManager1 (talk) 13:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to The Teahouse MediaManager1 Reference number 1 is not a reference? Reference number 8 is to Facebook which is never a reliable source and your user name suggests you might have a conflict of interest here? Theroadislong (talk) 13:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

MediaManager1 If you are here as the representative of Mr. Baraan, you must read the conflict of interest and paid editing policies and make the required declarations. 331dot (talk) 13:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

dead account

How do I delete his wikipedia account Onyekwere09 (talk) 13:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Onyekwere09 Accounts cannot be deleted; if you no longer wish to use it, just abandon your account. 331dot (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

How can I make a Wikipedia page?

 Abcdxyz124567810 (talk) 14:09, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Abcdxyz124567810: please see User:Ian.thomson/Howto. Please be advised that creating a new article is the hardest task a new user can undertake on Wikipedia. Creating a Wikipedia article requires much effort and knowlegde of Wikipedia policies, and I see more than a dozen failed attempts per day. Victor Schmidt (talk) 14:24, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Can someone make a wiki page about Tait Fletcher?

 195.149.195.165 (talk) 14:57, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

It does not appear that he meets Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion -- see WP:BIO. Also, his article was previously deleted -- see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tait Fletcher. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Articles: Quality of the articles presenting the political leaders of Vietnam while taking as "guide" the articles " List of heads of state of Germany and List of presidents of Germany"Beautiful Bavaria (talk) 14:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Teahouse experts,

Germany and Vietnam are 2 reunified countries. But in Wikipedia each country is presented by articles with different quality.

About the leaders/heads of state/presidents, Germany and Vietnam are presented with different articles: Regarding Germany: Article List of heads of state of Germany, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_of_Germany Article List of presidents of Germany, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_Germany

Regarding Vietnam: Article List of heads of state of Vietnam, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_of_Vietnam Article List of presidents of Vietnam, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_Vietnam Article List of heads of government of Vietnam, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_of_Vietnam

My concern is: While in the above mentioned german articles leaders of (the communist) East Germany and (the pro-western) West Germany are fully depicted with correct titles and functions, in the vietnamese articles leaders of the (pro-western) South Vietnam (1954-1975), aka Republic of Vietnam, are ONLY PARTLY mentioned.

But NOT enough: Titles, functions in the 3 articles are not correct described and inconsistent.

My question: How can Wikipedia push through, that the contents of the above mentioned "Vietnam" articles should be updated in such a way, that leaders of all, I mean really all, vietnamese political systems (communist/socialist and pro-western/non communist) are fully presented based on equivalent treatment respectively based on quality work? As guide for articles with expected quality, the "Germany" articles mentioned above could be used.

By the way: Emblem of Vietnam, regardless of North Vietnam, South Vietnam, reunified Vietnam, should be discarded from the "Vietnam" articles mentioned above, because these articles are only dealing with the leaders/heds of state/presidents/prime ministers and not the country Vietnam itself.

Thanks in advance. Beautiful Bavaria (talk) 14:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Beautiful Bavaria, and welcome to the Teahouse. The answer is that Wikipedia cannot "push through" anything: Wikipedia doesn't have an editorial board, a management, or anything that might make it capable of taking action. The bits of Wikipedia that make things happen, exclusively, are editors, like you and me. It's great that you have found inconsistency between what could be similar articles; but something will only change if you, or somebody else, decides to make them change.

Your choices, then, are 1) leave it as it is; 2) decide to change one or all of the articles, to make them more consistent; or 3) try to enrol some other editors who are interested in these area, to make the articles more consistent. I would advise you to take course 3. You can start discussions on the talk pages of the relevant articles; or you could look at the histories of the articles, and see if there are particular editors who have contributed heavily to them, and appeal to those editors (either on their user talk pages, or by pinging them from a general discussion. I was going to suggest you appeal for collaborators at WikiProject Vietnam, bt that does not seem to be active: there may be other WikiProjects that are appropriate to ask at. (You might also drop a note to WikiProject Germany, in case anybody there would be interested in working with you.) Of course you can pursue more than one of these approaches. --ColinFine (talk) 15:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Issue: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Hi

I have just created a Wikipedia page entitled "DeVono Cresa". A number of sources that I have cited are saying "Missing or empty DC072020 (talk) 15:26, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, DC072020 and welcome to the Teahosue. You seem to have fixed DeVono Cresa since you posted this. Thank you. However, please understand that the |work= or |website= parameters should provide the name of the site or other publication, not the domain name. Use "Forbes" not "forbes.com" for example. In general, anything with a ".com" or other domain is probable incorrect, unless that is the only name a site is known by.

Do feel free to ask any further questions about editing Wikipedia that you may have here. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 16:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Converting raster to vector SVG's.

Hello. I saw that it was requested that we upload lossless SVG's for JPG, GIF, and PNG. I've done so, but my files were nominated for deletion, because they came out as raster. I have no idea why it's doing this, because my programs keep saying that they're vector graphics. I'm using Photoshop and Illustrator. I was wondering if somebody could please show me how to make them properly. Thanks! LocalContributor281 (talk) 16:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@LocalContributor281: Converting to SVG isn't necessarily a simple process. It sounds like you just opened a PNG image and said save as SVG, which simply resulted in the raster image being embedded in the SVG. I'm not an expert on this, but here is someone elsewhere on the internet answering a similar question....[2] You may also want to ask at WT:GL if no one here chimes in. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:47, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi LocalContributor281. You should also be careful when creating and uploading svg versions of non-free content such as logos and character images because doing so might not comply with Wikipedia's non-free content use policy (see WP:NFC#Multiple restrictions and c:COM:SVG#Copyright). In such cases, it's generally best to only upload official vector versions released by the copyright holder(s) of the image(s). -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

What do the red and green numbers mean

Under contributions, each individual contribution has - in between date and the article title - a number in parentheses. What does that number mean? Thanks! COBURY (talk) 17:07, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

COBURY, they depict how many bytes the page size changed by in the edit, i.e. if they've added content to the page, it'll be green with a positive number, and if they've removed content from the page, it will appear in red with a negative number. Hope this helps. Ed talk! 17:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!

Editing Page

Hello, we are trying to update our page and the edits we made were undone. How do we successfully make changes? Kathleenapf (talk) 17:08, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Kathleenapf Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I would correct your language in that the Art Production Fund is not "your page", but an article about your organization. Please review the conflict of interest and paid editing policies and make the required declarations. I'm not entirely sure why your changes were removed- although what an organization considers to be its "mission" is not encyclopedic content. Wikipedia is only interested in what others say about your organization, not what it wants to say about itself. As you are affiliated with or work for the organization, you should avoid directly editing about it, but you are welcome to make formal edit requests(click for instructions) on the article talk page, detailing any changes you feel are needed, so an independent editor can evaluate them. 331dot (talk) 17:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Kathleenapf: Also, perhaps you are just using "we" to refer to yourself, but please remember accounts cannot be shared. Each person must have their own account and edit using that account only. RudolfRed (talk) 17:52, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Update logo image

[[3]] The logo used here is more than 10 years old. How does one go about changing the logo as a non free image? Peachy198588 (talk) 18:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Peachy198588, What do you think is wrong with the logo that's used on Wikipedia? I went to the university website and it seems like the same logo is in use today. (Though the version on the homepage doesn't have the slogan -- not sure if that's what you intend to change, or if multiple versions with/without the logo are in use simultaneously.) Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Calliopejen1, Is it that they have gone over to an all purple logo? link here Ktin (talk) 01:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

No "Black Manifesto" page?

In searching for the text of The Black Manifesto (1969), I looked in vain for the page. The topic appears on a number of other pages, which cry out for a link to this not-yet-page.

Surely it qualifies for notability? Although it was perhaps ephemeral, 51 years on, it still speaks. And the renewed discussion of reparations makes the Manifesto's demands significant.

There are ample resources! Just a few online examples: Sources: https://www.trcnyc.org/blackmanifesto/ https://episcopalarchives.org/church-awakens/exhibits/show/specialgc/item/202 https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/biographies/historians-us-biographies/black-manifesto https://religionnews.com/2019/12/30/50-years-after-black-manifesto-religious-groups-take-up-reparations-again/ https://www.presbyterianmission.org/story/webinar-explores-the-black-manifesto/

Cultural Influences: https://blackmanifesto.us/

Anyone interested in working on a "Black Manifesto" page? JFLohr (talk) 19:49, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@JFLohr: If the page is not there, it's because no one has written it! here is a quick draft, in case anyone would like to develop it. Definitely notable. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@JFLohr: Hey look, it's an article now: Black Manifesto. Very notable topic, thank you for suggesting it. Some areas for expansion might be the specific demands of the manifesto (money was supposed to go to certain orgniazations) and some more detail on the outcome (some gave money, some refused). ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment: What a great example of how Wikipedia pages can get created. Although here at the Teahouse we never offer to create articles for people - that's something we leave for them to do, with guidance from us - there is equally nothing stopping us if we want to. But here is a brilliant case of a page being created by two Teahouse Hosts, initiated by a simple question from a user, JFLohr. Normally, we might just have suggested posting the idea at Wikipedia:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement, and left it at that, so how nice to see the baton being picked up and carried in this particular instance. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

work titles

So if you have a list are you're just doing a job title followed by a name, I thought you're suppose to capitalise the job title, are you suppose to capitalise each part of that, so "Interim Manager" "Persons name" or is the second bit "manager" suppose to be lowercase? Govvy (talk) 21:53, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Govvy, I believe you're referring to this edit. I agree with Walter Görlitz's edit -- only the first word should be capitalized. I'm not sure if a WP:MOS guru has some guidance about Wikipedia's particular style guidelines on this point, but here is a web search that gives some further explanation to how capitalization of job titles is treated. Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:32, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Govvy, Lo and behold, there is MOS:JOBTITLES. Calliopejen1 (talk) 22:34, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I was kinda looking for a second opinion, at times I feel like going by "trust no-one!" heh, I thought in the singular way that it was listed was fine, and it wasn't a prose sentence, so, you might see why I am confused about the issue I hope. Also the MOS:JOBTITLES seems somewhat unclear to the situation as that example does not provide one example of general job titling. Govvy (talk) 22:40, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@Govvy: I agree with W.Gorlitz's edit which changed the job titles to lower case, but I also agree with you that our examples at WP:JOBTITLES do not describe well the situation where you needed an example of an everyday job title. My personal opinion is that I like to see job titles written in capitals before or after someone's name, just as I prefer to see all common names of plants and animals starting with capital letters, and will always write them with such in 'real life'. But definitely not here in Wikipedia articles, where I fully accept I and everyone else must adhere to the in-house 'Manual of Style, even when I personally abhor it. You were absolutely right to question it. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Follow-up to Editing a draft page in VisualEditor

Hi. I'm editing a new draft in VisualEditor, "David J. Zimmerman", and when using editor tools such as "fix ambiguous links" or "fix missing links" I'm getting the warning "this page may not be private..." This seems to be a new issue as several days ago I was able to use those tools. Thanks! VictorMooney (talk) 01:13, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Draft:David J. Zimmerman. Nick Moyes (talk) 01:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome back, VictorMooney. I'm just off to bed, so won't be able to help you directly, but could I ask you to clarify exactly which tools you are referring to? I did a quick visit using Visual Editor (which is not my main editing method) and I am unclear if you are using some installed script to run a ref-fixing tool. I wasn't aware of the two editor tools you refer to as being standard within VE. I think the more you could explain, the easier it might be for someone else to respond to you. Sorry I can't help further tonight. Regards from the UK (where it's currently 2:30am!) Nick Moyes (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Nick Moyes. At the bottom of the draft page, "David J. Zimmerman" there is a yellow box titled, "Review waiting, please be patient." Various tools are within that box such as, Where to get help, How to improve your article, Editor resources and Reviewer tools.It is the Editor resources that I was attempting to use. Sleep well! — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorMooney (talk • contribs) 01:38, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, VictorMooney, I get that too. The link to dabsolver is to a site identified by IP address rather than a domain, and Firefox (my browser) warns me that it might be dodgy. If you look at User talk:Dispenser/Dab solver, you'll see that others have had this problem too. The last comment says it "requires accepting an expired certificate", so browsers are warning you that the certificate on the website is expired and it's possible that the site or the link has been hacked. I haven't looked at Dabsolver, but I rather doubt that it will ask for a password or any other confidential information, so I think it's probably safe to use; but caveat utilitor. --ColinFine (talk) 09:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, ColinFine. "caveat utilitor" indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorMooney (talk • contribs) 13:52, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

How to Submit New Content

Hello, a few weeks back I tried to research Kitchen Island here on Wiki and noticed that there was no information on this subject. So I went to research this subject and published my findings on my blog Now I would like to share my findings with your reader. LLC28146 (talk) 02:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@LLC28146: Previous discussion is at Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 July 23#I would like to submit a missing article section. I'm afraid blogs are generally not WP:reliable sources, especially trying to cite your own blog as a source. What you would need to do is summarize the main points (it would be too long if you went into that level of detail here) and cite the sources you found (if they are what Wikipedia considers reliable). Note that you should not copy text directly from your blog, even if you wrote it; even if it were freely licensed (I didn't check), as a practical matter, it's likely that someone will come along and think it's a copyright violation. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:58, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

AlanM1, I think he's saying that he has researched it and saved his research on his blog for a while. LLC28146, if the subject you're writing on is notable and has independent reliable sources that has talked about it, you can make an article about it. If you are unsure whether your article is worthy of being on Wikipedia, you can make it a draft first; if you are sure already, submit it for review and an editor will decide. GeraldWL ✉ 13:31, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Job

How Wikipedia help you get a job? Oliverdrinkstars57 (talk) 02:44, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Oliverdrinkstars57: Wikipedia is not designed to help you get a job. This is a forum for questions about how to edit or use the encyclopedia. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:48, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

To know , how to edit

where can I find the articles to edit? Iitianeditor (talk) 06:09, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Iitianeditor. Please check out Wikipedia:Community portal, which lists plenty of articles that need work. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:13, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Centennial, Colorado - how-to ref and clarify?

This is a very specific question, but related to other similar problems I am helping with on other articles, so, I'm asking so I can learn the right way to fix this. 2nd paragraph of history of Centennial, Colorado says: A number of court cases eventually established the right of incorporation to take precedence over the right of annexation.

I happen to know which court cases (and acts of the legislature) and where you can find said cases/acts, but...

1. the cases have long technical names like: CITY OF GREENWOOD VILLAGE, Appellant/Cross-Appellee, v. PETITIONERS FOR the PROPOSED CITY OF CENTENNIAL, Appellee/Cross-Appellant. There are at least two, plus petitions, etc. *Won't all that get in the way of readability?*
2. So... they want us to cite the court cases? How? This is one of them:https://caselaw.findlaw.com/co-supreme-court/1419117.html Is there a better way to get the info without citing the technical case mumbo-jumbo?
3. There are no less than five websites that quote this Wikipedia Article word-for-word. None give references. Finding a non-primary ref amongst all the copycats is... difficult. Mostly, there are news articles on the subject, most are very one sided, either for Greenwood Village or for Centennial. The language used in the news articles has neutrality issues, (as does this wikipedia article if I'm understanding the objections).

How do you fix this? Is the info superfluous? Is there a better way to state it so it is not so objectionable? Thank you! Katrazyna (talk) 06:48, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Katrazyna. The article about Centennial, Colorado contains far more content about the incorporation process than I ever recall seeing in an article about a city. If that process was really so controversial, then there should be plenty of independent, secondary sources discussing the controversy. It is not necessary to exclude sources that are "one sided" as long as the Wikipedia article fairly summarizes both sides of the issue, without pushing a point of view. Any website that is based primarily on the Wikipedia article is not an independent reliable source and should not be used as a reference. Articles should be based, as much as possible, on coverage in independent, secondary sources. Court rulings are primary sources that should be used only with great caution, and usually not at all. If independent secondary reliable sources do not discuss and analyze the court ruling, then why should an encyclopedia? As to whether the information is "superfluous", that would require a comprehensive survey of the reliable sources that have covered the founding of this city. I do not have that expertise or interest, but perhaps you do. The broad answer to your question is that you should improve the article, based on bringing it into compliance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that was my understanding. To clarify the question, the and tags, on the surface seem to be asking for a list of court cases and citation on the same, which would be inappropriate for Wikipedia. However, I think the implied meanings of the tags is that the information should be removed or appropriately reworded, and sourced from there. My question is which of these options is the right one. If the only sources turn out to be the court cases then should it be eliminated? If we can find more sources (such as news articles), we still don't want a list of court cases. What kind of wording would be less "vague" than "a number of court cases", and be more inline with the purpose of Wikipedia? Is there a way to look for Wikipedia articles that would be a *good* example of a typical article of this sort?--Katrazyna (talk) 14:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Katrazyna: I would use your judgment. There's no clean answer here. If the statement were sourced (even to a source listing the exact case names), I personally think it would be fine to say "a number of court cases". I doubt the reader needs the exact case names, and if they want further detail, they can go to the sources. But having no case names and no source makes it impossible to verify. (It certainly would be easier to search Google Books if the case name were there....). All this to say, I wouldn't be too dogmatic in how you approach the tags, which are just one editor's opinion. I'd start with looking for sources about the city's founding, see what they say, and go from there. Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:53, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Animoz

Second question: (i ran out of space on the last one)... I can't find a listing for Animoz, which is an excellent game for kids that highlights the plight of endangered species. i am happy to feed the basic info about this new game (created by a university student last year in Adelaide) to said geeky person, using some quick and simple way to communicate with each other directly, ie something like this page we are on? 60.241.157.11 (talk) 08:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I've changed the headline to just Animoz and put the question where it belongs, in the large edit field below. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 08:53, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Please place your main question in the larger edit window instead of the smaller edit summary/section header window. This has been fixed for you here. Please understand that Wikipedia is not just for merely telling about something. This is an encyclopedia that summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen to say about a subject, showing how that subject meets the special Wikipedia definition of notability. This game would need to have such coverage in order to merit an article- significant coverage goes beyond brief mentions or descriptions, such as news reports or independent reviews of the game. 331dot (talk) 09:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

so, just to finish off the story on Animoz - here is one link i have found already fame.org.au/news-and-media-animoz-fight-for-survival ( and there appear to be quite a few more but they were on locked news sites (subscriber only) thanks, Pip  60.241.157.11 (talk) 09:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Being a subscriber only website or otherwise paywalled is not a barrier to using a source on Wikipedia, see WP:PAYWALL. Sources are not required to be free or easy to access, only that they be publicly available. Again, please place your edits in the larger edit window. If you are using the mobile version or the app, you may find it easier to use the full desktop version in a browser on your phone. 331dot (talk) 09:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi guys, thanks for the quick response and guidance with where to put my info. (I hope my earlier query got through ok, the one about not being geeky enough to even know which line i am supposed to be on...?) So in my earlier query, I raised the question of whether I (and other would be contributors) could simply be offered a chance to be paired up with someone who knows their way around the site. I can supply a topic and all the relevant independent news source http links no problem. But i just don't have the time or patience to painstakingly learn my way around this (somewhat arcane system) you've got here. Making my living takes up most of my energies, I confess. My idea with being paired up with someone willing to develop an idea to full status on wikipedia is a matter of trying to help you guys improve your general community engagement ( so its prompted by more than just mere exhaustion and brain fade at the end of each working day by the time i get to type this to you!) After successfully helping to create a page stub on wiki about ten years ago (when i found it a lot more user friendly, simpler and easier in every way), I am pleased to see that page still exists, and still shows my own special contribution. Wonderful stuff. But in ten years i notice a worrying trend - only around ten percent of your contributors are women! I wonder if any stats are being kept on all this, because the less-user friendly it is as a site - the fewer women will want to engage with it. I know i am straying off topic, but the question seems a crucial one re Wikipedia's sense of itself as represenatational, which it clearly can never be if only a very tiny proportion of contributions come from women. I put forward this question because i for one, would be much more encouraged to get involved again if i had an opportunity to be paired up with someone who could 'run with' a new bit of info that could help expand wikipedia's reach. My early training is in journalism, so i am used to just jumping onto a computer and filing a story (after researching it of course), without all the hoops i find i have to jump if i want to be part of helping create the best wikipedia possible. thanks, Pip 60.241.157.11 (talk) 09:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

sorry, my apologies - now i realise i was supposed to put Animoz on the subject line, so my last entry ended up in the wrong spot: templates in other languages (see how i need to be paired up with someone else who already knows all this stuff... wouldn't that save you a lot of time correcting all these dumb newbie mistakes? :) 60.241.157.11 (talk) 09:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

No, you were not supposed to put Animoz on the subject line; you were supposed to look for the section titled "Animoz", click on the option to edit this section, and then edit it, adding new material. But I have (I hope) cleared up after you. I don't spend much time correcting this kind of mistake, because very few people make it. Your confusion in dealing with a talk page is unusual. -- Hoary (talk) 09:43, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Two comments:

The site you link to above has a lapsed security certificate. This is not a problem as far as Wikipedia policy is concerned; but it may deter people from trying to view the page.

Animoz is not listed at boardgamegeek.com. Their standards for listing a boardgame are much lower than Wikipedia's. Maproom (talk) 10:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Templates in other language

I think that this may not be the best place to ask this question, but asking here for lack of a better platform. I recently started editing on sa.wikipedia.org. I would have asked their, but it is not a very active site. Some of the templates like Template:Cite news and Template:Infobox school display their result in english not sanskrit ( example- see मॉडर्न विद्या निकेतन विद्यालयाः शृंखला). What can I do to help translate the template and correct this?--User:श्रीमान २००२ (User talk:श्रीमान २००२) 09:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC) User:श्रीमान २००२ (User talk:श्रीमान २००२) 09:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

In principle, you can edit templates just as you can edit anything else. In practice, templates may be s-protected or protected; if you can't edit a template (or are nervous about doing so), then perhaps make suggestions in the template's talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 09:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

. . . However, the "principle" (and policies, etc) may be different at sa:Wikipedia. Still, using a talk page to offer your services would surely be an acceptable way of starting out. -- Hoary (talk) 09:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: Thanks. Posted at the talk page.--User:श्रीमान २००२ (User talk:श्रीमान २००२) 10:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Approval of New wikipedia Article

Hello,

I recently added a article on wikipedia, but it got rejected twice saying insufficient sources, now i added more sources, can anyone help me by checking the article & tell me that whether i can submit it again or need to add more sources. My sandbox url where the article is published right now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hnfatema/sandbox Hnfatema (talk) 10:47, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

This is about somebody named Whitney Noelle. It comes with a photo. This photo is Hnfatema's "own work", and it's Whitney Noelle's "own work", or so we read. (Actually it looks at first glance like UNHCR's own work, but on further inspection looks stranger and stranger.) Anyway, please read and digest Wikipedia:Autobiography. -- Hoary (talk) 11:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

The photo is very strange! A pretty young woman, with a disembodied, mysterious hand sitting on her shoulder. A menacing figure in the background, who seems to be preparing to stab her. Yikes.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 19:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, The photo is not only strange, it appears to require full permission to be in Commons at all, and I have just tagged it as requiring that permission there, which means that it is uo for the Commons slow motion seven day speedy deletion process unless permission is received Fiddle Faddle 19:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Timtrent: when I first looked at its Commons info, I thought "this will not be around for long!" A seven-days wonder, then. It looks like some sort of weird Photoshop mash-up.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 19:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, I like the Commons method of challenging speedy deletion. It does a full deletion discussion nomination. But the discussions there are often uncontested Fiddle Faddle 20:06, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Timtrent, there are two versions of the ice-pick mash-up at Commons (or anyway two that I know of); just now I added the where's-the-evidence-of-permission? template to the second one. -- Hoary (talk) 22:30, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: Perhaps the photo is a cautionary tale? As in WTF? Invading someone's "clean laboratory", dressed in a non-sanitary evening gown, while sporting a dead, possibly infectious, hand on your shoulder, may lead to an ice-pick stabbing. Commons won't be pleased, either.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hnfatema Actually, Draft:Whitney Noelle Declined twice, and then Rejected. Given Rejected, do not resubmit, even though you have added more content. You can either ask the editor who rejected it "why" on that person's Talk page, or ask at Wikipedia:Help desk. Whether the image is properly attributed is a separate issue. David notMD (talk) 12:38, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Osbourn Dorsey

Hello. Can someone tell me how to change a page name please? I've just added a page on Osbourn Dorsey, a widely Googled inventor, but have mis-spelled his name as Osbourn Doursey in the page title. Can I repair this or do I need to delete the page and restart?

Thank you Universal Kakistocrat (talk) 12:52, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Universal Kakistocrat: Such a rename is technically known as moving a page, here from Osbourn Doursey to Osborn Doursey. It is much easier that deleting-recreating, and preserves the page history. Your account is semiconfirmed (more than 10 edits, more than 4 days old) so you should be able to do it yourself (see Wikipedia:Moving_a_page#How_to_move_a_page). If you encounter technical difficulties, please ask again.

Regarding the article itself, I strongly suggest scrapping the patent body - does it really help the reader? Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 13:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Tigraan. That's exactly what I was after. I agree with you about the patent text. It was just me being lazy. There's a hanging reference as well. I plan to use sections of the patent to show that Dorsey's patent has nothing to do with knobs/handles and also the patent drawing in the reference to show a knob predating 1878. I'd left the text there ready for me to edit, on the basis that no-one was likely to stumble on it before I'd got back to it. Do you have a recommendation with how to deal with that circumstance? Or do most people write articles outside Wikipedia before dropping them in complete? For the time being I've moved it onto my own talk page. RegardsUniversal Kakistocrat (talk) 13:43, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Your own Sandbox as a better place. David notMD (talk) 15:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Universal Kakistocrat: You seem to say that the article is not ready yet. I have moved the page to Draft:Osbourn Dorsey, in the draft space, in order for you to edit it before it goes live; an equally valid alternative would have been to move it to one of your user subpages (e.g. User:Universal Kakistocrat/Osbourne Dorsey).

If you are not sure of what you are doing, I suggest submitting the article via the articles for creation process instead of reinstating it into the mainspace once you are done editing it. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 15:38, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia App Payment Support

Can you bring google play payment support in Wikipedia Android App. Please do this so that people who want to support Wikipedia but can't, Can donate Wikipedia by using Google Gift Card. Thanks to Wikipedia for helping me in my school projects from years. A 13 years old supporter of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vishwaroop7 (talk • contribs) 2020-08-18T14:21:37 (UTC)

Hello, Vishwaroop7, and welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for wanting to donate. Donations are collected and processed not by Wikipedia, but by the Wikimedia Foundation, so nobody here has any input to how they are collected. donate:Ways to Give has information about different ways to give, but I don't see Google Gift Cards there. At the bottom it says "For questions, please contact donate@wikimedia.org", so I suggest you mail them and ask. --ColinFine (talk) 13:33, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

This is in my Sandbox, Can You Help Me With Your Input (Opinion) to increase the chances of getting it published?

contents of sandbox

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to navigationJump to search John Homenko, The Distinguished Lunatic John Homenko (born 1955) is a renaissance person: an international classical pianist, accordionist, composer, environmentalist, guitarist, music producer, photographer, singer, songwriter, software developer, translator (Russian, French, Italian), and literary writer.[1] He has written over 300 musical pieces in various genres: classical, pop, jazz, hip hop, and rap. He has written already over a span of 50 years starting at the age of sixteen. His songs have been used internationally by groups notably Gil Scott-Heron. He gained the moniker, "The Distinguished Lunatic" by appearing at a New York Metropolitan Opera performance, wearing a Daffy Dan tee shirt, among well-to-do designer clad attendees.[2] 1 Early life 2 Musical career 3 Radio 4 International concerts 5 Promoting The Environment 6 Notable 7 Discography 8 Books Published 9 Filmography 10 External links Contents 1 Early life 2 Careers: Music and Software Development 3 Radio 4 International Concerts 5 Promoting The Environment 6 Notable 7 Discography 8 Books Published 9 Filmography Early life John Homenko began his musical career playing the accordion at age eight at Renwood Elementary School in Parma, Ohio. In 1966, he began studying piano with Ron Kohout a well known Cleveland and New York jazz pianist. While studying piano he began a long career of writing folk, rock, pop, classical and jazz songs. He played local night clubs and various coffeehouses in the Cleveland area such as "Peabody s", "The Fantasy Nightclub", and "Brother's Lounge". He studied classical piano with Ron Kohout through out his college years. Between 1981 and 1992, Homenko performed as an opening act with the name, "The Pulse" and "The Distinguished Lunatics" for such headliners as the Forecast, Suzanne Vega, and Livingston Taylor. Careers: Music and Software Development Music The release of the album Prospect Avenue got him some public recognition due to the local hit song, Kenny Kings, "KFC". In 1977 he performed on the air on Cleveland's Saturday Feature Weekly Showcase, Studio A, hosted by Larry Collins featuring Ed Alisauskas on guitar. He soon added Wendell Cowell on congas from the band Gil Scott Hering to the group, supplying percussion. They toured either under the name "The Pulse" or "The Distinguished Lunatics" from 1980 until 1990, and produced the albums: "Prospect Avenue", "God Grades On A Curve", and "The Altar Boy's Got A Hickey". In the early 80's Homenko produced the direct-to-disk digital solo album, "Nine Days In A Coma". He played in the band "The Distinguished Lunatics", 1984 through 1986. In the late 80s to early 90s, he produced the albums "From A Romance To A Funeral March", "I Thought About You", And "1998" His latest releases include "The Altar Boy's Got A Hickey", "Don't Go There Charlie Hebdo", and "Vote For None of The Above ("About The 2016 Presidential Election"). An avid producer of folk music, he has produced five recordings for the band, "The Distinguished Lunatics", and has written over three hundred folk, pop, jazz, and classical songs. He still plays many venues, including the Hessler Street and Coventry Street Fairs in Greater Cleveland, Ohio. In 2002, Homenko took a master class with the 1999 winner of the classical Cleveland Piano Competition, Antonio Pompabaldi. Homenko released and sold a classical CD, "From A Romance To A Funeral March". In 1982, Homenko wrote a short vocal piece to welcome the new conductor to the Cleveland Orchestra, Maestro Van Dohnanyi. He sent the recording to the Maestro. In 1990, Homenko became a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's Musicians Consortium, advising the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on matters of purchasing keyboards and amps to be used at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. [3] The Distinguished Lunatic's Album, "Prospect Avenue" became part of the the Chicago Libraries' permanent "Blues Collection" in 1993. [4] Software Development Homenko developed software programs ranging from the use of facial recognition, robotics, sensor measuring to the use and design of multi million row databases. He participated in the NASA Space Challenge for three years in a row utilizing his software skills to promote the environment.[5] Radio In 1984 he performed on the air on Cleveland's Case Western Reserve's Saturday Feature Weekly Showcase, Studio A, hosted by Larry Collis featuring Ed Alisauskas on Guitar. [3] In addition, Homenko's song, "Let It Rain, Gas On The Plain", was featured on Click and Clack's National Public's Radio Syndicated show, "The Tappet Brothers". Homenko collaborated with Russell Rucky and John Agostin on a musical called, "Prospect Avenue", Cleveland Ohio. Homenko was the sole perosn who wrote a muscical using Cleveland, Ohio, as the main subject. This was followed by two award-winning critically acclaimed works: "Work/Eat/Sleep", "I Almost Got A Date", and "If Only They'd Realize Life". International Concerts Homenko has played solo piano across India and China, mainly college campuses. He played in twelve cities in India and teamed up with sitar and tabla players in 1984. Upon returning from China, he wrote a chant, "Work/Eat/Sleep" which was inspired from Tibetan chants, which was a type of the "pre-rap" song. His song, "Oriental Melody" was used by Gil Scott-Heron, an international recording artist, while touring Europe. Promoting The Environment Homenko led the campaign to get bicycle racks on Cleveland Area Buses and Rapid Transit cars by gathering signatures and presenting to The Regional Transit System in Cleveland, Ohio, in 2000. Locally, Homenko grows milk weed to save the Monarch butterflies from extinction. He recycles his rain water, clothes washer's water, and dish water to the point he only uses less than 20 gallons per week. He has been mentioned as one of the most ecologically minded individuals in America several times in the Cleveland, Ohio local newspapers. He continues to take great pride in his compost pile, recycling of water, and low use of electricity and gas from his local utility suppliers. Homenko helped produce a book of children's pictures with The Council On Human Relations" in Cleveland, Ohio in 1985 to promote racial harmony in the Cleveland, Ohio schools. Notable Homenko received the lifetime American Legion Award for leadership, courage, and life time achievements. He spent four and one half years volunteering at a nursing home, playing piano and using his spoken Russian to help out Holocaust survivors. Discography Prospect Avenue (Dark Night Studios, Rocky River, Ohio, USA) 1988 (Pearl Ann Studios, Parma, Ohio, 1988) 1998 (Pearl Ann Studios, Parma, Ohio, 1998) From A Romance To A Funeral March (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2000) I Want To Be A Kid Again (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2015) I Like Butts (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2017) God Grades On A Curve (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2018) Accidental Lament (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2018) From Parma, Ohio, To Parma, Italy (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2010) The Altar Boy's Got A Hickey (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,1998) Dark Nights (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2009) Coffee, I Like It Black (thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com,2018) Books Published Children's Book (Cleveland Press, 1985) Off The Cuff (Amazon Press, 2017) Growing Up In Parma, Ohio (Amazon Press, 2018) Computer Art (Amazon Press, 2016) Posters of the band, "The Distinguished Lunatics" (Amazon, 2017) Filmography Homenko filmed a one hour video of his travels to China and Tibet in 1986 and sold the video to university libraries in the US and Canada in order to raise money to bring a Chinese student to study in the US. He raised enough money and found a sponsor for the student. The film, "China And Tibet 1986" is available on to view through JohnHomenko.com's website for free. [6] Homenko recorded The National Taipei Orchestra at Cuyahoga Community College in Parma, Ohio and distributed his recording to the library for free. Homenko wrote a "Cleveland" musical, "Prospect Avenue", based on his album, "Prospect Avenue". The musical was presented to "Dobama Theatre" in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, but was not produced by the theater. External links http://www.JohnHomenko.com John Homenko's Website http://thedistinguishedlunatic.wordpress.com https://sites.google.com/site/johnhomenko/ear-eye-entertainment/china-and-tibet-1986-video Homenko, The Distinguished Lunatic, John. "Cleveland International Piano Competition 2013 Street Pianos". You Tube. John Homenko. Retrieved 17 June 2019. Crump, Sarah. "Designers Out In Force At Opera". Google. Cleveland Press. Retrieved 17 June 2019. Santelli, Robert (March 8, 1996). "Musicians Cosortium". Rock And Roll Hall of Fame (March 8, 1996): Page 1. Retrieved 17 June 2019. Chicago Libarary, Chicago Library. "Chicago Blues Project". Acquisitions. Retrieved 17 June 2019. NASA Space Apps Challenge, NASA. "Environmental Applications". https://2019.spaceappschallenge.org/. Retrieved 17 June 2019. External link in

—Thedistinguishedlunatic (talk) 13:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Suggested edit to opening para, removing laudatory puff:

John Homenko (born 1955) is an international classical pianist, accordionist, composer, environmentalist, guitarist, music producer, photographer, singer, songwriter, software developer, translator (Russian, French, Italian), and literary writer.[1] He has written over 300 musical pieces in various genres: classical, pop, jazz, hip hop, and rap. He starting writing musicat the age of sixteen. His songs have been used internationally by groups including Gil Scott-Heron. He gained the moniker, "The Distinguished Lunatic" after appearing among well-to-do designer clad attendees at a New York Metropolitan Opera performance, wearing a Daffy Dan tee shirt, .[2]

Only my own thoughts. BTW is Gil Scott-Heron a group?Universal Kakistocrat (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Please don't post the content of an article or draft here, Universal Kakistocrat. Use a sandbox, or create it as a draft using articles for creation. --ColinFine (talk) 14:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Your User page is also NOT a place for drafting content. Please move what you have there to your Sandbox, and then clean up your User page. David notMD (talk) 15:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• @ColinFine and David notMD: The collapsed content contained the sig of the person who actually posted it here, Thedistinguishedlunatic. I've moved the sig below the cob. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 16:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am new to WP family and willing to learn how to write a page for myself

Hiya I am recently joined Wikipedia editor page and would like to learn how to write and edit the information. I tech in university in STEM subject it would be handy if i learn and i can teach our students too. I did look into you-tube not really helpful to be honest, any one would like to be my mentor and i will be sincerer student to learn

Thanks in advance, MBasha81 (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@MBasha81: consider the resources listed under Wikipedia:Education program/Educators. You can direct any questions about those to Wikipedia:Education noticeboard. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:31, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Uhm, how to put this diplomatically! If you really do teach at a university, then I'm guessing that your language--and probably the language of the university at which you teach--is not English. You might see if there is a Wikipedia version in your language. Uporządnicki (talk) 15:51, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, MBasha81. It's great to see a few more scientists around here, especially when they recognise the value that Wikipedia can play in helping students research specialist STEM-related subjects. I think the time has long passed where every university told its students that Wikipedia is unreliable. A really great place to start to understand how we roll here is Help:Introduction, and maybe even try out our interactive tour called The Wikipedia Adventure. As a science educator yourself (and I'm guessing you might work at a Welsh university?), you might like to be aware of Wikipedia:Education program and some of the resources that are available for educators to run organised programmes for students. Obviously, you would need to gain an understanding of the basics of Wikipedia before trying to assist other students, or to set them assignments. (The worse thing you could do is tell students to create a new page on a topic about something that we simply would never accept - so it's important to learn how you can utilise Wikipedia effectively.) There are more resources at https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education.

I do sense that one or two of your edits have been interpreted as promoting particular research work. I've not checked in detail, but it is better if you can cite sources which interpret that research, rather than using the original research in its own right. It's also a good idea to be clear on your WP:USERPAGE about your involvement in any such research work by saying a few words about yourself and your interests in using and editing Wikipedia. You don't have to identify who you actually are in real life - though it's not too hard to guess - but if ever anyone questions an edit you've made, then understanding your background and intentions really helps to make other editors appreciate what you're trying to do, and to guide you if needs be. Regards from the East Midlands, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

New article request with COI

I have a conflict of interest with Gotransverse, meaning I am advised not to create a page for the company due to Wikipedia's COI rules. However, I would like to know if I could be of assistance in requesting the Gotransverse Wikipedia page by providing independent and reliable sources as I am very familiar with the company. How should I go about doing this while adhering to Wikipedia guidelines? Any and all suggestions are welcome. Kksmt (talk) 15:52, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Kksmt:, and welcome to the Teahouse. I doubt that Gotransverse qualifies for an article under Wikipedia's inclusion criteria (see WP:CORP). Could you provide us what you consider to be the top WP:THREE sources supporting the notability of Gotransverse, so that we can evaluate them and give you further advice? Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Please check my article

Good day, guys!

Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions here. Please let me know what I can change in my article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Famous_people_from_KBR/sandbox I submitted it but got a feeling they will decline it. I feel like wiki rules are too complicated. Famous people from KBR (talk) 17:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

This page is largely a copyright violation from the subject's own web site and I have tagged it for speedy deletion as such. Wikipedia is not interested in what subjects have to say about themselves--we need sourcing from reliable sources which are independent of the subject. --Finngall ^talk 17:33, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Check the footer of the mentioned website. Text and photos are allowed to use. Also check that most information got external links to independent sources and articles, websites, etc. There are more external links than in the majority of existing Wikipedia pages. I know that, as the wiki is a source of the information for me. There is not even 1 source to the website. Well, how can you change the biography of a person? Should it also be unique for Wikipedia? no, it can't be my friend. All information has been collected specifically for the website and wiki. Page on the wiki supposed to be released even faster than the website. So we are not violating copyright rules, we own this text. If proves needed, let me know, we can arrange it. We are just trying to show the world that there are people from our small region who achieved significant results in the world arena. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famous people from KBR (talk • contribs) 17:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Famous people from KBR: thanks for that clarification. When you say "we", what do you mean exactly?ThatMontrealIP (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

By "We" I mean few editors. We might be new to Wikipedia but we have experience in coding, web, writing articles, etc. Hope you noticed that in our first article. We would be useful for Wikipedia and will try to establish it as a reliable source of information for our region. Not just Yandex and Google. ThatMontrealIP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Famous people from KBR (talk • contribs) 19:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Famous people from KBR:, I have left you a message at your Talk page concerning your username in this discussion. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:21, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Mathglot Thank you, responded there.

Placename policy

Could you direct me to the policy for using local names in the English-language Wikipedia, please? (I can only find policies on foreign languages but I'm not using a foreign language but the indigenous one.) I was entering some text this morning for a village in an area where the majority of people speak Welsh. I didn't delete the English names but placed the indigenous name first. I see that this is what happens on several other pages in many languages but I'm told that I'm contravening policy by placing the Welsh name in the text. I think it's crucial that this is dealt with properly as we are slowly losing the indigenous names, sometimes replaced with meaningless English ones. Thanks. Gorwel2 (talk) 18:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Gorwel2:, The policy is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). Basically, we use whatever name is most commonly used in English-language sources. If English-language sources generally use an indigenous name, we'll use that. If they generally use an English name, we'll use that. See also WP:RGW about how Wikipedia isn't the right place for advocacy. We're not interested in shaping the world, just reflecting the world the way it is. 18:31, 18 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calliopejen1 (talk • contribs)

Hello Gorwel2. I do agree with the anonymous reply immediately above. Because this is English Wikipedia, it is appropriate to refer to places in Wales by their common name as used in English. Thus, Germany, not Deutschland; Anglesey, not Ynys Môn etc. Putting the Welsh name first (or indeed even second) in an article that simply mentions that placename and then links to its page is not really OK. What is a very good idea, however, is to ensure that the lead sentence of any article about a Welsh place on English Wikipedia does indeed have the Welsh name immediately after it, if it is spelled differently in Welsh. Similarly (but I haven't actually checked), I would not expect Welsh Wikipedia to have its articles fiddled with in the same way, with English spellings of place names put before Welsh ones, and certainly not on the dubious grounds that too many of us damned English happen to live there! Sorry if sounds harsh, but this his how we work it. Does that make sense? Nick Moyes (talk) 20:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Question

I was told that.... "I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Carmen Yulín Cruz have been undone because they did not appear constructive." However I deleted information that was "not constructive about Trump". Please explain? Trumpster2020 (talk) 20:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Trumpster2020, The answer is very simple. By making the edit you did you expressed an opinion. We don't accept opinions. You also removed a cited fact from an article. No-one cares about anyone's political affiliation here, just the protection of articles from vandalism. Indeed you may not realise it but you have received a level 1 warning for removal of material from articles. Fiddle Faddle

Userbox

How does one create a userbox? ----MountVic127 (talk) 20:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC) MountVic127 (talk) 20:20, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, MountVic127, and welcome to the Teahouse. You'll probably get all you need to know at Wikipedia:Userboxes, and may well find that there is already a userbox in existence to advertise your particular interests. But it's a fun exercise to make you own. Hope this helps, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Admin please remove these edits and block the editor

Hi All, Please help to remove these edits from public view. They are highly disparaging and obscene. Editors have changed the edits but it is still visible in the page history.

Also Please block this user who is only editing to vandalize the article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/MohitGemini

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nigerians_in_India&diff=prev&oldid=962326543&diffmode=source Guy Foxx (talk) 21:10, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Guy Foxx: I have hidden three of those edits on the basis that they are somewhat offensive and BLP violations. The others are not so bad, and will remain in the edit history. The editors in question have not made sufficient bad edits to warrant a block, though they have received at least one low-level warning. Please continue to monitor the article and their edits, if necessary. Persistent bad faith editing should be reported at WP:AIV, where we would normally expect you to have already given the necessary warnings, and only report them once they continue. Bear in mind that highlighting inappropriate edits in the way that you have done here only serves to draw attention to them, so this is not really a sensible thing to do. In future, please do so more subtly, and follow the advice offered at WP:REVDEL. An article that is receiving sustained vandalism from multiple editors can be given protection for a short period of time. You can make requests at WP:RFPP should this ever happen again. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you @Nick Moyes: for your quick response and the action I requested. I am sorry that my method of highlighting these problem edits was judged as "not sensible", I do understand why you said so. Actually, I was not sure how or where I could have reported it. Before coming here, I did check Wikipedia:Administrators and also Wikipedia:Requests for administrator attention to decide the right forum where I need to post this request, but those pages did not talk about hiding revisions. With no other option left, I posted my concern here as my last resort before giving up on this. Now that you have clarified about REVDEL, I will seek help from there if needed in future. Finally, may be you or someone could add the guidance on REVDEL on Wikipedia:Requests for administrator attention too. I wish you have a very good day.Guy Foxx (talk) 22:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Working on an article

I am currently working on an article titled User:Charlie Smith FDTB/W.I.P.. Every time that put anything under Heading Level 2 with the the "==" on either side, the remainder of the article becomes italicized. I'm not sure why this is happening and I would appreciate some help. Thank you, Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Charlie Smith FDTB:  Fixed here. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 21:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Copyright issue

Hi. I'm a new editor working on Draft:David J. Zimmerman and am not clear why the posting of certain external links poses copyright questions. I received this comment from a reviewer. "→‎External Links: commenting out what's hosted at squarespace.com and whose copyright status is therefore dubious undothank" There are several articles written about David J. Zimmerman which no longer appear online. The external links I posted were links to pdf's which were created from the articles when they were online. Thanks. VictorMooney (talk) 22:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

This is the edit in question. (As it happens, I'm the person who made it.) The first of several such articles is something titled "Taking on the Tragic in Unconventional Portraits", from the Wall Street Journal. Can you demonstrate that its reproduction on squarespace.com is authorized by the copyright holder? (I find this hard to believe, particularly as the WSJ imposes a paywall.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. No, I can't demonstrate the reproduction is authorized. Can you suggest what might show authorization? Would emails from the publications be sufficient? I appreciate your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorMooney (talk • contribs) 22:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

VictorMooney, they look to be PDF print outs from the websites of the actual publications - you might just want to link to the original, even if they implement a paywall. A quick google will do this. Ed talk! 22:55, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Ed. I'll keep those links off the draft until I find a good solution. I did read in WP "help" that linking to sites with a paywall is discouraged. VictorMooney (talk) 00:58, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@VictorMooney: While free-to-read sites are preferred, a paywalled source is still better than nothing (it can usually be found/read by someone with access at WP:RX if needed). Just to clarify part of the original question, when a source looks like it's a potential copyright violation, one reason we don't want to link to it because it's more likely to disappear than other sources. Also, archivers watch for new citations on Wikipedia and archive those cited pages, which I think could create a problem for them, too. From a moral standpoint, I think it's best that we do what we can to not support copyright violators. (BTW, note WP:INDENT for the preferred discussion page formatting. Thanks.) —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:42, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hey so I am trying to update a page

So I am trying to update the Deltarune page because their were a few things that needed to be updated but this is my first time ever editing and I need either advise or a link to something that can help me with that. Yeeterboi135 (talk) 23:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Yeeterboi135, welcome to Wikipedia. You can find useful resources at Help:Getting started. The issue with your edits at the moment is that you're not citing your sources, i.e. you have to say where you got your information from. You can do this with the citation button in the Wikipedia editor, see here. Please let us know if you need any further help :) Ed talk! 00:00, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for notability guidelines

Hi, I'm a Wikipedian author who is writing about Indonesian government officials, and was thinking to divert to the viral world. I want to make an article about Muhammad Didit, an Indonesian youtuber who has gone viral as Man who did nothing for 2 hours. You could search the term on Google, and it will generate some web sources, especially the one from Phillipines, who is regarded as the Philippines' newspaper of record. Could someone review the notability of this person? Thank you. Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 02:22, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Jeromi Mikhael, welcome to the Teahouse. If you have sufficient sources that can explain things about him, you can sure write one. You are pointing out an Indonesian YouTuber, meaning you'll write a biography. Biographies are usually hard to make, but if you can make one, sure. Only write sentences that can be backed up by sources; do not make unsourced reliable claims. Feel free to ask more things on my talk page if you have a lot more to ask. Terima kasih, dari GeraldWL 06:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

How to upload photos

I take my a lot of photos and noticed they could benefit some of the pages on here. How can I upload new ones to Wikipedia pages that are relevant? Can I do it from phones? Dosp416 (talk) 02:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Dosp416! You could upload your file here! Please notice the copyright matters when uploading! Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 03:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hyperlink country names in "List of __ by country" articles?

In an article listing something by country, should the countries be hyperlinked? For example, at List of legal entity types by country, the countries are not linked, but I have seen articles in the same format (countries as section headers) in which countries are linked. What's the policy on this? I'm guessing not linked (?) CampWood (talk) 03:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi CampWood. I'm assuming you mean WP:WIKILINK when you say "hyperlink", but generally links shouldn't really be added to section headings as explained in MOS:HEAD. You probably have seen such a thing done in other articles per WP:OTHERCONTENT, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should've been done. In the article you cite above as an example, it might be possible to add a hatnote (e.g. {{Main}}, {{Further}}) at the beginning of each section to a relevant article like is done for List of legal entity types by country#India and List of legal entity types by country#Russia or even possible to add a link inline like is done for List of legal entity types by country#Albania; however, I'm not so sure that linking to the main article about a country itself is really going to be very helpful to the reader of an article about legal entities unless there's a specific section in the main country article which covers such a thing in more detail. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

how to make my page seen on search links

 Adam Timothy Mayemba (talk) 06:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@Adam Timothy Mayemba: All you've done so far is to create a Userpage - which is not an encyclopedic article. Please use the Article Wizard to create an article. You can find advice on how to create it at WP:YFA. Please note that autobiographys are strongely discouraged and I personally haven't seen somebody suceed so far. Also, an Wikipedia article might not nessesarely be desireable. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:20, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Create an article

 Rxdd Sxvxge (talk) 12:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Rxdd Sxvxge, welcome to the Teahouse. Do you have any details on what article you want to make? Like biographies or films? That way I can give you specific infos. GeraldWL ✉ 12:17, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Commons files vs. Wikipedia files

What is the difference between files uploaded to Wikimedia Commons and files uploaded to the File namespace on Wikipedia? Is one better than the other? Maka, the Two Star Meister! (talk) 12:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Maka the Two Star Meister, welcome to the Teahouse. Commons files and Wikipedia files generally do not have any difference, you can upload your files in either place (although it is encouraged to upload on Commons as editors on other projects can use it). However, if the file you're uploading is copyrighted, upload it on Wikipedia, because Commons does not accept them. Copyrighted files should also comply fair use. GeraldWL ✉ 12:39, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) @Maka, the Two Star Meister!: All files uploaded to Wikimedia Commons are available under a free license (I would say usually CC-BY-SA but I do not see a Commons page that says everything is available under that license). Therefore, they must come from a source that itself can be relicensed as such. On the other hand, the File namespace of en-Wikipedia (Wikipedia in English; rules are different on, say, the German version) may contain copyrighted materials if they satisfy WP:NFCC. Notice that these criteria are (intentionally) stricter than the fair use legal restriction given by Gerald Waldo Luis.

As a general rule, you should migrate everything you can to Commons, and keep as local files those who have copyright restrictions (typically, album covers, film posters etc. that are used to illustrate articles about the subject they promote). Files from either location can be used in English-Wikipedia articles in the same manner. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 12:47, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• The Wikimedia movement includes about a thousand Wikis, including around 300 language versions of Wikipedia, plus Wikimedia Commons. If an image is on Wikimedia Commons it can be used on all of those thousand Wikis, plus others from outside the movement. But if an image is only on one language version of Wikipedia it can only be used there unless someone copies or moves it. Think of it as the software looking at two wikis whenever an image is specified, the wiki you are on and then Wikimedia Commons. So if you can release the image under an open license and you want as many people as possible to use it, then Wikimedia Commons is the place to go. But if it isn't your work, for example you are uploading a low resolution copy of a book cover or album cover under the fair use provision then stick with the English language Wikipedia as Wikimedia Commons does not host "fair use" files. ϢereSpielChequers 13:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
• As an addition to WereSpielChequers, copyrighted files should only be used in either: 1) The article it is about, meaning for primary identification; 2) The article where relevant. If t is option 2, then you must add a sourced commentary about said file, see Jaws (film)#Music as an example. It does not only preview the main theme, but also gives information that casual readers may be interested to know. If you cannot find a commentary, do not use it mainly for decorative purposes, at least until you can find one. Images are supplemental, so it is not required to have one if there can't be one. That's what I can say. GeraldWL ✉ 13:24, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
  • I think you mean other people's copyright:). By default what we do and upload is copyrighted, but under a very open license that allows others to reuse what we have done provided they comply with CC-BY-SA. If anyone wants to upload images that other people own the copyright of then I would suggest reading the relevant policy in full. ϢereSpielChequers 14:02, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Trouble in moving/redirecting/renaming a page

I would like for this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Stuart_Bertolotti-Bailey to be the only one for Stuart Bertolotti-Bailey AND Stuart Bailey (from which I messily redirected it), and I would like for the category 'Wikipedia' to be removed – that was also a mistake.

I have no idea how to fix this mess. Please help me! TheServingLibrary (talk) 12:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi TheServingLibrary, welcome to the Teahouse. If you want to move a page to where appropriate, just click the "move" button beside "View History." You can do it by hovering over the "More" button. When a page is moved, the previous name is already a redirect, so that's instant solved. I hope that's what you're asking. GeraldWL ✉ 12:42, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi sorry this is not what I mean. I just want to have one page called Stuart Bertolotti-Bailey. With no redirects. And the category 'Wikipedia' that appears before the name is wrong. Should I deleted the whole thing and redo it? How do I even do that? OMG what a mess TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:00, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

TheServingLibrary, That is not possible. You can remove the redirect once you move it, but that is considered blanking a page, and an editor should not blank a page. Just keep it a redirect, there's no harm. GeraldWL ✉ 13:07, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. How do you remove the redirect? I basically need to undo the last couple of things I did (the redirect and change of category) but I can't find a way to do it. Thank you so much for helpng me. TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:09, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, for some mysterious reason it doesn't let me visually edit but only source edit the page now... what a disaster. TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

TheServingLibrary, done. The contents have been migrated to the unprefixed page. GeraldWL ✉ 13:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Gerald THANK YOU. Thank you sooooo much. TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

One last thing: do you know why I can't simply edit the page anymore, but the only thing I can do it source edit, which is very inconvenient? Thank you again!! TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:22, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

TheServingLibrary, you can visually edit the page. Just go the the right top, see that pencil icon? Click it, and click the eye icon where it says "Visual edit." GeraldWL ✉ 13:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

AMAZING. THANK YOU. SORRY to be so bad at this. TheServingLibrary (talk) 13:31, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

What makes an edit vandalism?

What makes an edit Vandalism. I am pretty new to editing and I corrected the List of Republicans who oppose the 2020 Donald Drumpf presidential campaign article to correct the incorrect statement that Mitt Romney was senator of Massachusetts, when he was actually Governor. This was flagged as vandalism and I am not clear on how it was vandalism. Can someone please explain this to me? Victor Scimitar (talk) 13:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Victor Scimitar! If you're referring to this edit [4] labelled as "Edited to show Mitt Romney was the Governor of Massachusetts, not Senator", then it's presumably because you also changed Donald Drumpf's name to "Donald Drumpf" throughout the entire article. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 13:44, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Agreed with YorkshireLad. Even if you hate the subject, such vandalism will ruin Wikipedia as an encyclopedia and is vandalism, just like real-life vandalisms. I understand that reference tho. GeraldWL ✉ 13:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I was unaware I was doing this, I have a browser that does that automatically, I apologize and that makes sense why that got flagged. Sorry