Talk:January 6 United States Capitol attack

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Current consensus on size and organization:

The specific subjects of international and domestic reactions, the aftermath, the death of Brian Sicknick, the law enforcement response, and the events at state capitols and other cities, are not covered in full detail here but in the linked articles. Portions of those articles are transcluded here, if opportune, per WP:SYNC.
As long as the article is too long (true as of Nov 5) it should be shortened, but the Very long tag should not be used (for the whole article); instead, Very long section tags could be used. An idea to use more refined methods of managing length (copyediting, moving information to notes, refining/trimming transcluded sections, etc.), instead of further splitting and more routine removal was agreed on here and here.

Current consensus on naming and terminology:

The page's title was moved to 'January 6 United States Capitol attack' after this move request.
The decision to not use the word "urge" in the lead, in reference to Trump's actions, was agreed in this subsection.
There is no consensus to call this event Terrorism as per this RFC

WP:ACDS actions:

~~Under ACDS, starting Jan 16, a move request cannot be opened nor be closed to move to a title using the word "insurrection" for a month. See the Arbitration enforcement log (diff) for details.~~ Expired since Feb 16.
Under ACDS, only users who possess the extended-confirmed user right may close discussions for this page. See the Arbitration enforcement log (diff) for details.

A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on January 6, 2021.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, 2021 United States Capitol protests → 2021 United States coup d'etat attempt, Not moved, 6 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 United States Capitol protests → 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, Moved, 6 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → United States Capitol insurrection, Procedural close, 7 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 breach of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 8 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → The Trump insurrection, Procedural close, 9 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 breach of US Capitol, Not moved, 15 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Storming of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 16 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Insurrection at the United States Capitol, Not moved, 16 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 Terrorist Attack on the United States Capitol, Not moved, 21 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol riot, Not moved, 23 January 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol attack, Not moved, 4 February 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Storming of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 16 February 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → January 6 United States Capitol attack, Moved to 2021 United States Capitol attack, 31 May 2021, discussion
Move Review initiated 1 June 2021. Overturned, moved to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, 1 August 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol attack, Moved to 2021 United States Capitol attack, 2 August 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 attack, Not moved, 7 November 2021, discussion
RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 United States Capitol attack, No consensus, 8 January 2022, discussion
RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 United States Capitol attack, Moved, 28 July 2022, discussion

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Copied 2021 storming of the United States Capitol (oldid, history) → Aftermath of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol (diff)
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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

January 3 to 9, 2021 (5th)
January 10 to 16, 2021 (7th)

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Alex Pasternack (2021-01-14). "As a mob attacked the Capitol, Wikipedia struggled to find the right words". Fast Company. Archived from the original on 2021-01-15. Retrieved 2021-01-15.
Alex Hern (2021-01-15). "Wikipedia at 20: last gasp of an internet vision, or a beacon to a better future?". The Guardian. Archived from the original on 2020-01-15. Retrieved 2020-01-15. At 6.34pm UK time on 6 January this year, one Wikipedia editor, with the username Another Believer, decided that events in Washington looked important enough to warrant an article. Tentatively titled "January 2021 Donald Trump rally", the initial entry was brief: "On 6 January 2021, thousands of Donald Trump supporters gathered in Washington DC to reject results of the November 2020 presidential election." {{cite news}}: |archive-date= / |archive-url= timestamp mismatch; 2021-01-15 suggested (help)
Heather Kelly (2021-01-15). "On its 20th birthday, Wikipedia might be safest place online". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 2021-01-15. Retrieved 2021-01-15. This month, the online encyclopedia's strengths and quirks were on full display as hundreds of volunteers furiously worked to create a page for the Capitol riots as events unfolded Jan. 6. As it transitioned from a protest to something more violent, Wikipedia's volunteer editors added key details while debating the article title, as shared by editor Molly White. Was it a protest, an insurrection or a riot? It ended up the "2021 storming of the United States Capitol." Hundreds of people were working on the ballooning document at a time, which has now been touched by nearly 1,000 editors, is more than 10,000 words long and has been viewed nearly 2 million times.
Stephen Harrison (2021-01-15). "To Celebrate Wikipedia's 20th Birthday, Try Editing It". Slate. Archived from the original on 2021-01-16. Retrieved 2021-01-15. Take the recent debate over the nomenclature that Wikipedia should use to describe last week's frightening events. Should that destruction and violence be described as President Donald Trump's supporters "storming" the United States Capitol, an "insurrection," or a "coup attempt"? Is it "terrorism"? "The long-standing consensus is that article titles on events, such as this, should reflect how reliable sources have described the event," said Chet Long, one of Wikipedia's long-term volunteer administrators, who edits under the username Coffee. The issue here was that reliable sources have covered the event using all of that nomenclature. At publication time, the Wikipedia article is named "2021 storming of the United States Capitol" based on the consensus of editors that the majority of media sources have also characterized it as a "storming." Of course, reasonable minds can disagree on that decision, which developed after spirited, reasoned debate. One thing is clear: That's not a boring issue. The language that the world's most popular internet encyclopedia uses to describe the events of Jan. 6, 2021, will affect how that day will be perceived by the public in both the short and long term.
Grace Gedye (2021-02-04). "When the Capitol Was Attacked, Wikipedia Went to Work". Washington Monthly. Retrieved 2021-02-04. As protestors at the Capitol turned violent, one major debate among Wikipedia editors was how to describe the event in the page's title. Was it a protest? A riot? An insurrection? A coup attempt?
Stephen L. Carter (2022-08-02). "Are We in a Recession? Don't Ask Wikipedia". The Washington Post. Retrieved 2022-09-02. And nobody will be surprised to learn that the page designated "2021 United States Capitol Attack" is also partly locked. Fierce argument rages even over what the page should be called.

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Section sizes

Section size for January 6 United States Capitol attack (59 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	83,583	83,583
Background	35	81,109
Attempts to overturn the presidential election	18,780	18,780
Planning of January 6 events	18,815	32,265
Seditious conspiracy by Oath Keepers and Proud Boys	13,450	13,450
Predictions of violence	17,433	17,433
Law enforcement and National Guard preparations	12,596	12,596
Trump supporters gather in D.C.	14,940	50,013
January 5 meetings	3,724	3,724
Bombs placed	5,338	5,338
January 6 Trump rally	12,676	26,011
Trump's speech	13,335	13,335
Attack on the Capitol	3,545	82,429
Proud Boys march to Capitol as mob assembles	4,065	4,065
Bombs discovered near Capitol Complex	168	168
Attack begins near Peace Monument, led by Proud Boys	13,387	13,387
Attackers on west terrace breach Senate Wing hallway	16,511	16,511
Evacuation of leadership amid Capitol lockdown	27,182	27,182
Oath Keepers arrive and breach Rotunda	2,280	2,280
Ashli Babbitt killed by police while attempting to breach Speaker's Lobby	7,550	7,550
Attack on the Tunnel	5,873	5,873
Police clear the Capitol and Congress reconvenes	1,868	1,868
Federal officials' conduct	32	50,314
Trump's conduct	11,525	30,201
Inflammatory speech while knowing of weapons	2,934	2,934
Allegation that he assaulted a Secret Service driver	4,654	4,654
Endangering Mike Pence	8,159	8,159
Failure to end the attack	2,929	2,929
Capitol Police leadership's failure to prepare	2,698	2,698
Department of Defense leadership's refusal to send Guard	12,076	12,076
Congressional conduct	2,885	2,885
Deletion of Secret Service and Homeland Security text messages	2,422	2,422
Participants, groups, and criminal charges	6,750	62,645
Proud Boys	4,043	4,043
Oath Keepers	6,247	6,247
QAnon	8,780	8,780
White supremacists, neo-Nazis, and neo-Confederates	12,285	12,285
Others	8,261	8,261
Police and military connections	6,183	6,183
Analysis	10,096	10,096
Results	13	26,221
Casualties and suicides	14,091	14,091
Damage	8,242	8,242
Laptop theft and cybersecurity concerns	3,875	3,875
Aftermath	17	11,400
Political, legal, and social repercussions	4,600	4,600
Domestic reactions	2,571	2,571
International reactions	131	131
14th Amendment disqualification	3,094	3,094
Sarbanes-Oxley Act prosecutions ruling and impact	987	987
Analysis and terminology	1,754	12,561
Historians' perspectives	10,807	10,807
See also	1,258	1,258
Notes	31	31
References	14,397	14,397
External links	964	10,513
Federal government	3,127	3,127
Video	2,113	2,113
Timeline	4,309	4,309
Total	486,474	486,474

Trumps insurrection?

Trump never asked for this to happen. He stated over and over not to be violent. He said to protest peacefully if they were going to protest. If you can show one instance of Trump saying "We need to forcefully change the results of the election with a riot" or anything similar to that, then ill sit down and be quiet. 97.113.112.155 (talk) 19:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We do not need to, we just need to show RS said it, they have. Slatersteven (talk) 19:43, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Funny you don't mention he also said to "fight like hell". 🤔 – Muboshgu (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(yawns) ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:25, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Important notes you missed...

1) The leader of the group that went inside the building was nancy pelosi's son in law. He was the guy wearing horns. 2) The cops opened the barricades and the doors to the building for protesters to enter, they didnt barge through barricades. 3) The fact you refuse to remove the "false" out of "Trumps false claim the election was stolen" just because you dont feel comfortable removing a source from the article says alot about the bias the moderators have here. 97.113.112.155 (talk) 19:55, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of point number one, I think you mean Jake Angeli, and it might be worth perusing that article. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 20:02, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nancy Pelosi's son in law is Michiel Vos. He was reporting from within the riot for Dutch television channel RTL 4’s talk show, according to the Associated Press. 73.162.157.101 (talk) 18:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lolololol. The disinformation is strong with this one. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:42, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

sigh... ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:25, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Article seems a bit biased?

I'm not too knowledgable about US politics (I'm not from the US) but some of the wording seems to me unrelated or skewed to make Trump look as bad as possible. I will refer to the beginning section:

• "Called to action by Trump," (referring to the capitol attack) - The Wikipedia article cites two news articles - one from the New York Times, and one from Business Insider. Both articles refer to a tweet by Trump: "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th, Be there, will be wild!". I am dumbfounded as the Wikipedia line implies that by tweeting those lines Trump directly told protestors to breach into the capitol. A politician rallying supporters up to protest is nothing new, how come that is any different?

Additionally, the claim that Trump instigated the attack should be treated as an opinion, not concrete facts (since it's political analysis), and thus referred to as such: maybe something along the lines of "[Political analysts] say that Trump instigated the attack" with accompanying sources.

• "...to support his false claim that the 2020 election had been "stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats" - I don't want to delve into the claims too much but calling them outright false is misleading. It has never been proven, but we don't know for sure. It would be more accurate and better to call them "unproven" or "unsubstantiated".

• "and said "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.", In his hour-long speech Trump included 22 grammatical variations of the word "fight"." - This information is pretty much irrelevant and only serves to cast Trump in a bad light. The only real justification of including it is to show that Trump did incite the mob to violently breach into the capital, but the word "fight" has been used in political discourse rhetoric for ages (e.g. "Obama fought against Romney in the 2008 elections", "Fighting for Women's rights"), it doesn't exclusively mean fight in the sense of violence (e.g. "Biden fought off the Coronavirus"). It is, most frankly, a blatant skewing of Trump's words in order to make him look as if he directly instigated the attack.

Incidentally, in the same speech Trump said: “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” (my italics) [source], this directly contradicts the previous point but its not mentioned in the paragraph.

• "Trump resisted sending the National Guard to quell the mob." - This statement cites only one source and is a gross skewing of what we know happened - We know that it was Mike Pence who (allegedly) ordered the National Guard to quell the mob, not Trump. We can't exactly know from that that Trump resisted quelling the mob.

And that's only from the opening paragraph. I don't say this as a Trump supporter (which I am not anyways, not that it should matter), but rather as a supporter of an unbiased Wikipedia with no political influences. It is not to say that Trump didn't do anything wrong - far from it, I simply wish that the articles would be more reliable as an independent source rather than a mouthpiece for whoever can edit the article most subtly.

Thanks lads. BonkeySmoke (talk) 08:19, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Books, news reports, analysis, and Congressional testimony. The article is not biased. SPECIFICO talk 08:51, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To address one point, The claim the election was stolen has been tested in the courts, and no evidence was produced that past scrutiny. Slatersteven (talk) 18:29, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 November 2022

It has been proposed in this section that January 6 United States Capitol attack be renamed and moved to January 6th United States Capitol attack.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

January 6 United States Capitol attack → January 6th United States Capitol attack – the TH seems important to me - this is how people actually speak of it, "sixth" not "six". Previous moves I believe were:

In parlance a "th" is more common than a comma, and sometimes you even see both, but "-th" is phonetic and just how people speak/write. HearthHOTS (talk) 18:26, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and close per WP:SNOW. We don't use ordinals in dates per MOS:BADDATE. VQuakr (talk) 18:48, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per User:VQuakr, and possibly WP:SNOW-close. We don't use ordinals in dates per MOS:BADDATE. Paintspot Infez (talk) 18:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - You may say "January 6th" but this article is written, and when written it's January 6, as shown by the reliable sources in the article (Example: [1][2]). How it's said has no bearing on how it's written. Reliable sources support "January 6" over the proposed "January 6th" and that's before we even get to MOS:BADDATE. - Aoidh (talk) 18:56, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dishonest reporting.

Your article is biased by the left leaning influence of your overlords. The PEOPLE of this country know what the truth is and be warned WE THE PEOPLE have had all we will stand for and your days are numbered. 2600:8803:A03:4700:E0D3:201:6ECB:A495 (talk) 19:30, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your post doesn't state what you want done. Please state what you wish to be changed about the article LordEnma8 (talk) 19:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So what are your complaints about the article? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:36, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please read wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 19:38, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Which country? This is an international project? Finton the magical salmon (talk) 10:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]