Talk:Douglas MacArthur
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Frequently asked questions Controversies, praise, and criticism Q1: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A1: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praises and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per WP:CRIT. Q2: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A2: Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy says that "All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. This is non-negotiable and expected of all articles and all editors." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about MacArthur in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q3: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A3: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Other issues Q4: This article is over 100kb long, WP:SIZE says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A4: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 100kB of readable prose (which corresponds to about 10,000 words), not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of December 2023, this article had about 19,300 words of readable prose (114 kB according to prosesize tool), which is over the limit. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q5: I added something to the article but it got removed. Why?
A5: In all probability what you added was trivia, unsourced information or information cited to an unreliable source; such information is usually removed quickly. Articles on Wikipedia require reliable sources for an independent verification of the facts presented, consequently any information added to an article without a reliable source is subject to removal from the article at any Wikipedian's discretion. Q6: I tried to edit this article but couldn't. Why?
A6: This article has been indefinitely semi-protected due to persistent vandalism or violations of content policy. Semi-protection prevents edits from anonymous users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has ten or more edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the {{editsemiprotected}} template if necessary to gain attention. They may also request the confirmed userright by visiting Requests for permissions. |
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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
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Date format
Please change it to mdy. --2603:7000:2143:8500:EC64:FB79:7C07:7BDE (talk) 07:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Declined The article uses the proper format for US military biographies. See WP:MILFORMAT. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
"General McArthur" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect General McArthur and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 24#General McArthur until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:25, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Public Image in the Philippines
Although this article mentions his reputation as a revered war hero in the United States, shouldn't it also cover his similar reputation in the Philippines as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vortex3427 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- Have you got a source on the subject? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:09, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7 I'll try to dig up more sources, but I have this Time article which is considered to be a 'generally reliable' source. Vortex (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Split?
Should this article be split? At 235 Kb it's well past the size limit for it, and seems to take an age to load up when editing. Any thoughts? Xyl 54 (talk) 15:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- Incorrect. The article is only 111 KB. On Wikipedia we use readable prose to measure prose size, not markup. (WP:PROSESIZE) What we have already done is the create subarticles: Douglas MacArthur's escape from the Philippines, Relief of Douglas MacArthur, Service summary of Douglas MacArthur, List of places named for Douglas MacArthur. So all you need to do it write a new subarticle, and the main article can be reduced a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:19, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- Hawkeye7 Thanks for replying: I have to say I’m a bit unclear about the difference between readable prose and markup, especially if more than half this article (by that reckoning) is markup. I was mainly posing the question because the page was slow loading up when I was editing. Surely the quantity of the markup stuff affects loading time though, doesn’t it? But another angle on the page size, perhaps, is that at least one of the sub-articles (Douglas MacArthur in World War II) seems not as long as the section it is derived from: Would it not be appropriate to trim the WWII section here to a summary? Xyl 54 (talk) 22:24, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- The size of the markup has little if any effect on the reader. The reason is that the majority of the download is images. The one in the infobox alone is 2.2 MB, so twenty times the size of the markup in the article. The markup is affected by templates, and the use of non-ASCII characters, which take up more space. We can run into technical problems if the number of templates in an article gets too big, but that is not the case here. There is some argument that comprehensibility could be a problem if an article is large, but in most cases the reader is will either read the entire article however large it is, or else skip to the information they are looking for. In neither case are they better served by arbitrarily splitting the article. Since the article is a featured article, subarticles must be of similar standard before we will consider reducing the the main article. Douglas MacArthur in World War II is nothing more than the section that used to be in the article. No work has been done on it; all the maintenance has been concentrated on the main article. I will arrange for its deletion. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:59, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- Hawkeye7 I agree with you that the article does not need to be split. In my opinion, the article is an excellent one about someone with an exceptionally relevant history. I was going to suggest deleting any reference to Douglas MacArthur in World War II as it had not been edited in five years. Deleting the article itself is an even better idea. Dr. Grampinator (talk) 23:17, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
- Ahh! Well, thank you for the explanations. Regards, Xyl 54 (talk) 22:42, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
- Hawkeye7 I agree with you that the article does not need to be split. In my opinion, the article is an excellent one about someone with an exceptionally relevant history. I was going to suggest deleting any reference to Douglas MacArthur in World War II as it had not been edited in five years. Deleting the article itself is an even better idea. Dr. Grampinator (talk) 23:17, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Not Really Similar to Operation Paperclip
"MacArthur gave immunity to Shiro Ishii and other members of Unit 731 in exchange for germ warfare data based on human experimentation. This was similar to Operation Paperclip,"
This is not the same, because it can reasonably be argued that production of armaments is a normal part of war, whereas inhuman experimentation on civilians and others is a war-crime, and the shameful failure to prosecute war criminals could even be considered a crime. This needs to be rewritten to make clear the nature of the choice that MacArthur made which is against all morality. The lengths that they went to to cover it up demonstrates their guilt. Muchado (talk) 15:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- I have removed the references to Operation Paperclip because they are not supported by the cited source, and re-worded what is left to match what the source does say. Failure to prosecute may be shameful but it is not considered a crime. It is quite common for district attorneys to decline to prosecute simply because they are short of time, personnel or money. MacArthur's role is not so clear-cut; he submitted reports and recommendations, but decisions were taken in Washington. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2023
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This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
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Please change X Native American codetalkers to Y Navajo codetalkers. 2603:B010:FFFD:53:49B5:BD2D:D0CC:200A (talk) 16:05, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
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