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Concerns of notability re: children's author, 1980s-present + possible workaround

This overnight, I was planning to do an AFC page on one Stephanie Calmenson, who has written dozens of children's books since 1982. (Her name ended up in the bibliography for Doug Cushman I set up last night [if only to de-orphan two of the Holiday Mice books he illustrated for Bethany Roberts]; I happened to own one of her titles, Hopscotch, the Tiny Bunny [1991], back in my homeland of Dominica.) Calmenson (b. 11/28/52 in Brooklyn) was once profiled in Gale's Something About the Author series, which is a great start--but from here, what I've approached across ProQuest/GBooks/GScholar/the newspaper outlets (as of this writing) hardly shows any promise. Tons of reviews on her works + scattershot library-shelf listings; almost nothing else on her career save for a 1987 "infobox" in Newsday. No major awards either, not to mention there's an interview on TeachingBooks you have to be an educator to view--which already doesn't count.

TL/DR: Firmly in WP:ONESOURCE territory for the most part--and in turn, clearly short of WP:NAUTHOR expectations. How disappointing...

Absent a Calmenson article, I think I may approach the subject from another angle: Through a page entitled "List of works by Stephanie Calmenson" or "Stephen Calmenson bibliography", as long as the site's community doesn't mind. If not, then we might as well launch a "Books by Stephanie Calmenson" category as a last resort--and only when at least three notable works of hers show up on WP. (Emphasis on "notable": She also did movie, TV, and Disney tie-ins that are better off mentioned on their parent works' pages.)

And if Hopscotch got reviewed (and I bet it already did), then so much the better once I launch its draft. In the meantime, I'll resume my own search after sending this filing to press. To the S.S. @Cunard: Are you up for some source-sleuthing soon? --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 13:52, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

It may be a stretch, but this 1995 New York Times story on the development of a non-fiction book of hers, Rosie: A Visiting Dog's Story, features a biographical tidbit almost midway through. Whether this + the SATA profile makes Calmenson qualify for notability, I have yet to be told. (Unless much better appears on the horizon...) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 14:09, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Even my hopes for Hopscotch—recommended for the kidvid-cottagecore crowd as long as you can find a copy anymore; helps that Barbara Lanza's illustrations are lush as they come—turned out to be overambitious. Nothing to show for that either, save for this clipping that mentions its sales of 113,827 by 1993 (ranked #130 in the "Paperback Backlist Bestsellers" section there). Looks like a bibliography/category for Calmenson is going to be our only way out.

P.S. Hopscotch the rabbit and Squeak the mouse make for one of the best friendships ever to grace a children's book. Draw your own conclusions, fellow furs.

• Roback, Diane (1994-03-07). "Hollywood and horror: in children's, movie tie-ins and scary series ring the registers". Publishers Weekly. Vol. 241, no. 10. pp. S14+. ISSN 0000-0019. Retrieved 2023-07-13 – via Gale General OneFile.

--Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 07:57, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Slgrandson (talk · contribs), thank you for your great work on articles related to children's literature! This book source you linked is a great find. I will look into sources for Stephanie Calmenson. I am confident that she passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria and will share my findings here within two to four days. Cunard (talk) 09:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Slgrandson (talk · contribs). Here are some sources about the children's book author Stephanie Calmenson that allow her to meet Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability":

1. This Gale search from the Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library returns a large number of book reviews of books written by Stephanie Calmenson.
2. The New York Times article and the book source you linked above.
3. Budge, Rose Mary (2008-11-11). "Harry, owner offer tips on petting animals". San Antonio Express-News. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "Calmenson, who has about 100 children's books on a variety of subjects to her credit, is in San Antonio today to speak at the Animal Defense League's fall "friendraiser." ... Growing up in Brooklyn, Calmenson longed for a pet - especially a puppy. But her mother was terrified of dogs. Eventually, the author prevailed and adopted a fuzzy darling named Rosie, who won over Mother. Soon, the dog and her owner were winning even more friends visiting the elderly at nursing homes. ... When Rosie died, Calmenson was heartbroken and doubted she would ever feel so close to an animal again. Then along came Harry."

4. Reid, Robert (1993-02-20). "Aesop's fables offer lasting relevance". Waterloo Region Record. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "The Children's Aesop (McClelland and Stewart, $15.99), selected and retold by Stephanie Calmenson and illustrated by Robert Byrd, is the latest offering. The collection, comprising 28 fables both familiar and not-so-familiar, has a couple of qualities to recommend. Calmenson was a former elementary school teacher, children's book editor and editorial director of Parents Magazine's Read-Aloud Book Club for Children before she turned to writing full time. Her retelling of the fables are written to appeal to young contemporary readers. Byrd's ink and watercolor illustrations capture both the humor and the action of the text."

5. Allport, Brandy Hilboldt (2001-08-20). "Youngest students can jump into school year". The Florida Times-Union. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "-- Title: The Frog Principal. -- Author and illustrator: Stephanie Calmenson/Denise Brunkus -- Publisher: Scholastic Press ... Calmenson is a teacher and editor who lives in New York. She adaptated another classic tale in her book, The Principal's New Clothes. That story featured the first appearance of Mr. Bundy. Readers who enjoyed meeting him in The Frog Principal might want to check this older title. Also, fans of Robert Munsch (Aaron's Hair, Alligator Baby, The Paper Bag Princess) will like Calmenson's work. Their wacky storytelling styles have similar appeal."

6. Rosenthal, Cathy M. (2008-12-21). "Lost pet's finder kept it; would you?". San Antonio Express-News. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "If you are looking for a last-minute gift for a young dog lover this holiday season, check out "May I Pet Your Dog?: The How-to Guide for Kids Meeting Dogs (and Dogs Meeting Kids)" by Stephanie Calmenson. While it is an advanced picture book intended for pre-school to second-grade readers, many elementary-school-age students and adults also would benefit from reading the step-by-step etiquette of meeting and greeting dogs, especially dogs you don't know."

7. Young, Rebecca (2007-05-01). "Books give children pet perspectives". The News Tribune. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "· "May I Pet Your Dog?" by Stephanie Calmenson is an important book for younger children. It effectively teaches the most important thing to remember when encountering a dog you don't know. ... Calmenson features her own long-haired dachshund Harry as narrator, winningly portrayed by veteran illustrator Jan Ormerod."

8. Meehan, Mary (2002-12-01). "Kid Tests, Mother Approves - Of 4 New Titles Picked by Mom, Preschooler Gives Ok to 3". Lexington Herald-Leader. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "At 64 pages, it's not designed for one sitting, but it has a table of contents so parents can choose the topic they want to explore. You can tell the author, Stephanie Calmenson, was once a teacher."

9. Glassman, Molly Dunham (1994-07-03). "Cold Noses, Warm Hearts Make For Tender Accounts". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

   The article notes: "Some dogs are more loving and smarter than others. One example is the star of Rosie: A Visiting Dog's Story by Stephanie Calmenson, photographs by Justin Sutcliffe (Clarion, $15.95, 48 pages). Rosie is a Tibetan terrier, a middle-sized dog with long, silky hair that hangs in her eyes. Her owner, Stephanie Calmenson, tells how Rosie was trained to become a visiting dog - a Delta Society Pet Partner and a member of Therapy Dogs International."

10. MacPherson, Karen (2001-06-19). "Backseat Books Conjure Vacation Fun on the Road". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "Echoing Chapin, authors Joanna Cole (of "Magic School Bus" fame) and Stephanie Calmenson believe that "sometimes getting there is half the fun." Cole and Calmenson use clear language to give directions for a host of games, including "I Spy," "License Plate Counting," "States and Mottoes," etc. Some of the games are meant for older children, ages 10 and up, while others can be played even by preschoolers."

11. MacPherson, Karen (1998-05-07). "Rounding up Some Wagging Tales of Child's Best Friend". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "It's doggerel at its witty best. Playful rhymes and expressive photographs reveal the true characters of two dozen breeds of dogs in "Shaggy, Waggy Dogs and Others" (Clarion, $15). Author Stephanie Calmenson keeps a light touch as she captures the essence of each breed in four lines of verse. Even kids who think they don't like poetry will be swept away by this lyrical look at dogs. ... "Shaggy, Waggy Dogs" also includes a non-poetry discussion of choosing a dog, as well as Calmenson's personal note about having to live without a dog as a child because her parents refused to get one."

12. Young, Rebecca (2005-08-30). "Back-to-school stories can help children adjust - School days are upon us once more, and new books can ease the vacation-to-classroom transition". The News Tribune. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: ""Kindergarten Kids" is packed full of original rhymes by Stephanie Calmenson.From "Good Morning" to "See You Later Alligator," Calmenson pieces together a patchwork quilt of the kindergarten experience.Some of the poems are riddles, others are rebuses (puzzles using pictures in place of words). They celebrate classroom pets, holidays, show and tell, pizza parties and loose teeth."

13. Allport, Brandy (2017-11-05). "Read All About It: Dinos learn a lesson in charming 'No Honking Allowed'". The Florida Times-Union. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "From Page One, readers get the idea about this book. It’s fun and informational, and the rhyming text catches listeners’ attention right away. “No Honking Allowed” is a great choice for little automobile enthusiasts. The text covers all the fun auditory aspect of the car from the screech of the brakes to, of course, the sound of the horn. ... If you like “No Honking Allowed”, check out other fare by author Calmenson. Titles include “Ollie’s School Day: A Yes and No Book” and “Ollie’s Class Trip: A Yes and No Book.”"

14. Wergeland, Kari (2003-01-04). "Herald new year with books that celebrate babies - Young readers". The Seattle Times. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "Another treasure to read during those first two years is "Welcome, Baby! Baby Rhymes for Baby Times," by Stephanie Calmenson, illustrated by Melissa Sweet (HarperCollins, $16.99, ages birth-2). Calmenson has stuffed this anthology with her own verses, which are original and fun. A wonderful alternative to those same old nursery rhymes."

15. Leach, Pat (2000-08-06). "Road trip books fun, help pass the time". Lincoln Journal Star. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "Families who often pile into the car for a road trip will be interested in "Fun on the Run: Travel Games and Songs" by Joanna Cole and Stephanie Calmenson (Morrow, 1999). Cole and Calmenson provide instructions for all kinds of games to play in the car. While they don't solve the issue of how to provide a window for every passenger, they do supply enough variety in passing the time to make it less of an issue."

16. Butler, Dori Hillestad (1998-05-03). "Books keep kids busy on rainy days". The Gazette. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: ""Marbles 101 Ways to Play" (Morrow, 1998, 127 pages, $16) is by Joanna Cole and Stephanie Calmenson. Cole and Calmenson use simple instructions to explain the rules of various marble games, including Ringer, Black Snake, Gold and Old Bowler, which supposedly was Abraham Lincoln's favorite game."

17. Ross, David (1994-08-22). "Several Good Books for the Littlest Ones". Press-Telegram. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: ""Kinderkittens Show-and-Tell" by Stephanie Calmenson/illustrated by Diane deGroat (Scholastic, $2.50, paperback, second-grade level). ... Calmenson captures the mood of a kindergarten classroom and gives teachers a hand by providing an appendix that includes a shadow play song, traceable puppets and an activity."

18. Martin, Claire (2002-10-20). "Kids' Bookshelf". The Denver Post. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: "Here's a book to warm increasingly nippy evenings: "Crazy Eights and other Card Games" (SeaStar, $14.95). Authors Joanna Cole and Stephanie Calmenson explain everything from the beginning - high and low cards, suits, how to hold cards in a fan, how to shuffle and cut a deck, and how to deal cards."

19. Wright, Sarah (1994-07-31). "Kids' Books". Boston Herald. Archived from the original on 2023-07-15. Retrieved 2023-07-15.

    The article notes: ""Hotter Than a Hot Dog!" by Stephanie Calmenson, illustrated by Elivia Savadier; Ages 4-8 (Little, Brown)  Stories about children and their grandparents rarely offer the vitality and playful give-and-take with language found in "Hotter Than a Hot Dog!""

Cunard (talk) 09:57, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your service, Cunard! (I'll get to the task no later than mid-August. Wish me luck as always!) --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 15:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Slgrandson (talk · contribs), and best wishes on the content work! Cunard (talk) 04:09, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

page reviewer

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This discussion seems to have moved well beyond the scope of the Teahouse and would perhaps be better off continued elsewhere (like on the OP's user talk page) for those who still feel there's more that needs to be discussed. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:32, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

---

Could somebody help this person… Pmnedus (talk) 09:35, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

We would need more context. Theroadislong (talk) 09:40, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe you're looking for WP:NPR? NotAGenious (talk) 09:58, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Recently the dog of Kleuske died RIP. Now a lot of people are not happy in the way Kleusks replies e, even if he is right. A comment like: do not give a rats ass about the content of the article or your dispute. If the three of you are unable or unwilling to reach some sort of sensible compromise I will take this to an appropriate forum. Kleuske in very inappropriate.

Also A comment like: Just stop it. Alternatively, show me the killer source that really attributes that name to the painting. I have gone through your "sources", twice and did not find any. Plenty of irrelevant, inaccessible or flat-out garbage references. A site for re-enactors of Polish Huzzars, for crying out loud. I am left with no choice but to qualify your activity here as POV-pushing and “you are wasting everyone's time here”. . I found at least 6 entries, that we have to say, this could be said nicer…

I think work pressure (has to reach his goals) and his personal grieve is to much for him. He needs some “time-off”.

Maybe I’m off limits here, and going to be blocked for life, but I have to bring this to yours attention (back talk with other people, who than take over the reviews, is not a very polite way, of bringing somebody in discredid, buddy’s helping to let people giveup, see some of his reviews?) Pmnedus (talk) 10:01, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

You have persisted in trying to add content and images to the existing article A Polish Nobleman, all reverted, then minimally attempt to add an image of a copy of the painting that you own to that article, claiming it is one of several "notable copies", and are also trying to create an article about said painting (Draft:Wladyslaw IV Vasa in elk skin). At the latter - before you deleted most of the content - you took the position that the painting shown in the draft (which you now own !?!?!) is the original and the one shown in A Polish Nobleman is a copy. Obtuse persistance is not a virtue. "Just stop it" is blunt, but accurate. David notMD (talk) 10:23, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Added by an IP that may be Pmnedus

Below appears to be an attempt to show examples of comments by Kleuske at other article Talk pages:

This is off topic 95.62.74.51 (talk) 10:38, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

etc. I do not have the time, nor the stomach to go through all these "sources", but WP:SYNTH and WP:OR apply.

If you have sources for war crimes, crimes against humanity and general massacres and do not report them, without beating about the bush, my assumptions of good faith go out the window. That, encyclopedically speaking, is evil. Kleuske (talk) 15:03, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Reply

I've already explained how similar instances have been described similarly on other Nagorno-Karabakh articles - I would say my version was quite generous. Please stay civil, you've now reverted me twice justifying it by throwing around Wikipedia guidelines/essays. If you have a preferred version of your own - please take the time to present it, instead of reverting, be specific what needs to be done. The current version of the page that you revert back to is highly problematic to say the least. AntonSamuel (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I know that my idea does not comply with the rules, but still I want to talk about it. In the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_welding in external links there are many links to commercial projects, for example, ABB, FANUC. At the same time, their sites do not have as much really useful and interesting information as the ABAGY blog (https://abagy.com/blog#!/tfeeds/949749039321/c/Technology).

Moreover, my link was to the blog, and not to the entire site.

May I return the link to the blog? Ekaterina Mosolova (talk) 08:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Reply

No. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Kleuske (talk) 09:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC) 95.62.74.51 (talk) 10:40, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

yes this was me, my computer rebooted, sorry Pmnedus (talk) 10:55, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

this will be my last.

- first I came at wiki, because I had a lot of information of the topic

- uploaded a picture. (what then!?)

- added my information.

- got a tip that I had to make a page

- made the page and added picture etc data.

- got 2 reviews, and corrected it

- than somebody said I had the stop and update the existing page.

- ask tea house for advise

- update the existing

- I cannot do that with WP:o or something like that etc etc

- advised to use first sandbox

- went to sandbox, added for two day the file and added correction

- asked if it is ok....

- waiting..

- than I update and got at almost the same time reverted..

- but what is happing!

- undo reverting

- message ¨disrupting etc.....I cannot recall

- reviewer is not open for any opinion.

- forcing his ideas

- got other reviewer, went a bit better.

- researching the topic

- again teahouse

- and being attacked.....in a way...that is unexplainable.

- until this, it is still happening.

I rest my case. It should be not like this.

Please do me a favour and block me for life, than I also don't get any mails anymore... Pmnedus (talk) 11:05, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

One thing, it took me a while to understand the talk pages. I had talkpage myself. talkpage reviewer, talkpage article, talkpage teahouse, talkpage picture, talk-age other person etc... at the end where to go, to which talkpage.

Now it is clear for me, but I know a new user will have the same problem, because most of you are working here a long time, and it is like common... Pmnedus (talk) 11:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Short cuts, would like to advise for all new contributors, that the reviewer adds with al first comments in the first writing, the referral page of these....will now blow of some steam..... Pmnedus (talk) 11:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Pmnedus I'm afraid I have not understood half of what you have been trying to say here and, to be honest, I have given up trying to. It sounds like maybe you have given up too. That won't be a bad thing.

What you appear to have done is not spent any time learning how Wikipedia works - maybe making small edits, learning how talk pages work and how to reply (or how not to reply). Instead, you have charged in, determined to get your point across (whatever that is), based on some homemade research you've done and published yourself, and expected us to take it at face value. None of us know who you are, and you've not persuaded us that you have a clear understanding of how to make a good argument, based on properly published evidence by a reliable source.

I'm sorry it has been a difficult experience for you.

Now, you wouldn't expect to be able to get behind the wheel of a car for the very first time in your life and drive off up the motorway at 120km per hour and not expect to crash, would you? What you have done here is akin to that. You have not spent any time trying to understand how Wikipedia works. Maybe you are too impatient, or wrapped up with your theory about your painting. What you say may eventually turn out to be true, who knows? But that's irrelevant right now. Unlike many other newcomers, you have failed to invest any time to understand the basics of how Wikipedia works or(to use my example above) to drive off slowly while you are learning how to control the vehicle. So it's not surprising you are frustrated - as indeed are we. I suggest you go away and wait until some proper research studies on your painting have been published by an instituion or academic body that you can bring back to us and communicate in an understandable form.

Meanwhile please read this article which highlights that Competence is Required, and I fear that if you do decide to continue on your quest to promote your theory, you could soon find yourself losing your editing privileges in order to avoid further drain on volunteers' time here. I apologise wholeheartedly if this sounds blunt or rude, but I feel it needs saying. Kind regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:37, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Rules of engagements: you do the following, you all shoot to kill

It should be: shoot in the air, then shoot in the legs, then shoot dead

Than I see this, and I still cannot believe this.

Nick Moyes

This user pledges to return to

Old-Fashioned Wikipedian values.

I am not alowed to use blogs, but what does Nick Moyes uses:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/Derby

Outcomes

Working with Wikipedia - a Museum's Perspective

A quick hit of demoing QR codes at the museum in February

Next generation multilingual QR codes developed as a result of work in Derby by @Edent and @Victuallers

The King of Rome - first new article after at the backstage pass

• Post on Wikimedia foundation blog about residencies

• Blog from Nick Moyes gives excellent summary of the da

http://nickmoyes.blogspot.com/2011/04/when-glam-met-wiki-wikipedia-and.html Pmnedus (talk) 23:15, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Pmnedus: I strongly suggest you lurk more on Wikipedia. You'll have to explain clearly what Nick Moyes is presumably doing hypocritically. Nick isn't using his own blog as a source for an article on here; he's using it to recount a Wikipedia-affiliated event. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

ofcourse, the language usage is normal….

Keeper of Natural Sciences

Brilliant, concise and clear voicefrom @Natures_Voice.

Honestly, if political leaders can't do even one simple things like mandating #swiftbricks in every new housebuild, we're absolutely f*cking f*cked in this country.

No two ways about it Pmnedus (talk) 23:29, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

FYI

 – The boxed content is a reply to Theroadislong at User talk:Pmnedus. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 12:19, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I am talking on behalf, all the poeple, who see that wrong information is on wikipedia, trying to adres it, but then stop, because are getting insulted, and have the feeling they have to climbe mount everest and reaching the top, to get it corrected, and they give up. The no selfresearch is ok, but is not correctly applied and is very complicated, reviewers cannot give their personal opinions and enforce it. Thats why their should be dialoque, but if you get the impresion that he/she need to make the points (quotes), to get employer of the month or to be promoted to super user, sorry that goes to far. Pmnedus (talk) 08:15, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How does one go about adding an article about a novel they have written?

I have self-published a novel and I would like to have a place where I can write just be informative and not have to do all the marketing and advertising just so people can see what I wrote. To me that place is obviously wikipedia.

Unfortunately, because it's brand new, there's no sources except me, the author.

Is there a way I can go about setting up and attaining verifiable information so when creating the page I have more than just "I'm the person that wrote the book" as citations? There is a goodreads page with a review, as well as an amazon page with all of the information about it, but both of them, I think, are not good to use as sources. JackClifton86 (talk) 21:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Read WP:NBOOK for guidance on how a book qualifies for an encyclopedia article. If there are no independent sources, then it will not qualify. RudolfRed (talk) 22:04, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@JackClifton86:. Wikipedia is not a publicity channel and must never be used that way. Attempting to do so always leads to a bad end. Wikipedia published articles about notable subjects. In other words, your book cannot be "new" or "up and coming", it must have already arrived. That is, it would need reviews in reliable sources by reliable reviewers, not user-generated content such as Amazon reviews that anyone can write; see WP:Golden rule for guidance about the kind of sources required. Wikipedia can publish an article about your book only after it has become notable on its own, without Wikipedia's help. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:17, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I shall leave it for now. Have a great day :) JackClifton86 (talk) 23:06, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I would add that it is rare for a self-published book to meet that notability criteria(though not impossible) as anyone can self-publish a book. For there to be any chance of doing so, though, there must be independent reviews of the book by professional reviewers(as noted by Anachronist). 331dot (talk) 08:51, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

JackClifton86 try Blogger (service), Weebly, WordPress.com, and/or Wix.com to make a website/blog to promote your book/books.

I've no idea which one is the best to create a blog/website...

...However I have 6 or 7 private Blogger blogs (all of which started in order, but are now a mess, as I don't bother to check which one is currently open when I save something), which I use to save information, which mainly consist of things like lists of films, TV shows, places, filming locations, actors, directors, rappers, singers, companies, websites etc, so I can just copy and paste them as a comment on social media posts/videos.

It works practically the same as Wikipedia, so I can copy and paste articles I've started to write on Wikipedia there if I want to, then copy and paste them back into Wikipedia when I want to carry on. So it's excellent imo.

One day, in the very distant future, when I've finished adding/updating 17,000+ specific films/TV shows/web-series/shorts/music videos on IMDb (and some Wikipedia articles), I will be making some of those Blogs public. Who knows how long it will take to check the 17,000+ which are already there, plus the 1,000s which are missing, as some can take less than hour, and some can take a week or more. But when/if I do eventually finish, that's when the blogs will be getting published.

However you could just start a public blog right now. Danstarr69 (talk) 18:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to write this out! I have copied and pasted it so I can take your advice properly, I think you're right, I should start a public blog.

Thank you again! 122.61.168.15 (talk) 19:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

JackClifton86 one slightly annoying thing with Blogger that I only noticed a year or two ago, is that articles are automatically set to paragraph, so every sentence has a gap between them.

However this can be fixed by changing Paragraph to Normal so that there won't be any gaps, unless you make the gap between paragraphs yourself. Danstarr69 (talk) 19:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Biographical stub for entertainer

This question was archived here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1193#Biographical_stub_article_for_a_self-improvement_coach Not sure if I'm following the correct procedure to revive discussion. Please advise.

The article stub is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Venzen/sandbox I have followed previous suggestions to cite references. Kindly comment. venzen (talk) 07:31, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Venzen You have still not shown how he meets Wikipedia's definition of notability. For example, your citation #10 looks promising until one reads that it was "produced in partnership with Ascend Agency": presumably his PR company. Hence it is not WP:INDEPENDENT. You need about three sources which meet these criteria. You might find it helpful to read this essay on writing articles. Long interviews on YouTube are equally not independent. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:13, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, Mike. I did not notice the Ascend Agency partnership in ref #10. Will keep on looking - possibly reduce the amount of early life info to reduce reliance on 3rd party interviews. As for notability, does the externally verified award and several nominations not qualify? Those same award and nomination organisations seem to have established notability for most other pornstars. venzen (talk) 12:12, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

According to XRCO Awards, "XRCO members are asked to submit their own nominations", so I'm not very impressed by mere nominations. As to winning, this would be more convincing if backed up by a reliable WP:SECONDARY source, preferably with WP:SIGCOV of Cooper. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Noted, Mike, thank you for the pointers. venzen (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Regarding The Arena Group https://thearenagroup.net/about-us/ I believe that they could qualify as Independent. And my citation #10 is an article in their publication "Men's Journal" as evidenced here https://thearenagroup.net/our-brands/ . I acknowledge your advice to have 3 independent sources and that YouTube interviews do not qualify to establish notability. I will continue searching. venzen (talk) 07:29, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Can you please describe what Wikipedia is?

Hi there, I noticed that site and quickly joined in with welcome. I’m very sure that anyone can edit Wikipedia. I also know that I can click on current events to see what is just happening in the news. However, can you please give me more information on what Wikipedia is all about for sure? I just wanted a complex explanation on how this site works. There is so much to view in terms of content. Another question is can you describe what is wiki software and why it can keep the edits forever after publishing it with words? Much obliged to this part. ~WikiCoverings11111 (message) 08:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @WikiCoverings11111, and welcome to Wikipedia!

There are some articles and essays below that you might find helpful, such as WP:WIKIPEDIA, WP:PURPOSE, WP:PILLARS and WP:EDITING. For information about Wiki softwares, you can take a look at the article. Other than that, if you have more specific questions in mind, please ask.

Happy editing! NotAGenious (talk) 08:39, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@NotAGenious I just need a reason of why Wikipedia keeps a keeps an Akashic record? It means that all edits and contributions are kept by wiki software forever. ~WikiCoverings11111 (message) 08:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@WikiCoverings11111 Are you referring to the fact that all edits (even if cancelled or reverted) are kept in the edit history? NotAGenious (talk) 08:51, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@NotAGenious Yes it is. I know that edits are kept permanently after editing. How though? ~WikiCoverings11111 (message) 08:54, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I haven't gone into much depth on the technical side of Wikipedia on how the edits are stored on the database, but they are kept because of Wikipedia's licensing policy, which essentially means that "attribution [must] be given to all users involved in creating and altering the content of a page" as stated in WP:COPYWITHIN. If you want a more technical explanation, I would suggest visiting WP:TECHPUMP. NotAGenious (talk) 09:06, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Every revision (version) of a page is saved separately in the database. Having older revisions is essential for reverting, which is essential if you allow anyone to edit; if someone decides to remove all the content from a page (which they often do) you can just restore a previous version. In reality nothing ever gets deleted this way, which means the content can't be permanently trashed by vandals. Being able to track and compare revisions, and see what was added or removed when, has many other advantages. The specific software used is MediaWiki. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 09:12, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Not to mention Help:Your first article (currently on the verge of a retool), just in case. Greetings, newcomer! --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 10:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Slgrandson Alright, I would read articles on Wikipedia to calm from pressure and take a break until further notice. ~WikiCoverings11111 (message) 12:14, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

There is also a video on the topic, which you can find here. NotAGenious (talk) 08:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

UPDATE: User now blocked as a sockpuppet (as many suspected) Nick Moyes (talk) 23:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Right. Thank you! NotAGenious (talk) 07:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Help on the decline of my article?? thank u in advance..

Hey people, I am fairly new to this. I have recently submitted my first page of my fav musical theatre artist.. and its been declined because of reliable sources and/or formatting of references.. I am confused as to what sources are not Reliable.. most are from direct websites that the person is involved with, industry pages, news articles, the BBC and the relevant show websites.... Can you help me figure this one out please. which references are not reliable? Granted, I did think that the YouTube connection I have on there might have been a little unreliable, however that is from his YouTube directly so again im not sure. I have given multiple references in some cases to double down on the information. Can you point out specifically which references are not reliable and/or explain what I am doing wrong when referencing? or at least point me in the direction to be able to get this approved. this is my draft page...Draft:Joseph Connor (actor) Moongirl12345678 (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Please read the comments left on your draft. It specifies which sources are not reliable, and the issues with the formatting of the citations. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 10:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

"direct websites that the person is involved with" are not particularly helpful as sources – we rely mostly on secondary sources, with the guidelines for primary sources being laid out at WP:PRIMARY. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 10:45, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Moongirl12345678 Moreover, and importantly, you have used some photographs which you have asserted on Wikimedia Commons are your own work but are clearly screenshots taken from elsewhere. This is in contravention of the copyright policy and you must immediately ask for these all to be deleted. With very few exceptions, Commons only allows the upload of pictures you have taken with your own camera or which are clearly licensed in their original source as CC BY. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Bella Hadid

Hello! I think if i do remember well, talking about Bella Hadid real middle name isnt Khairiah but Khair. She told herself on her instagram's biography and i search a little bit, Daily Sabbah is a turkish pro government magazine and i think isnt a good source... i found this website explain that yes she name after her grandmother name who was called Khairiah but Bella Hadid middle name is Khair like Gigi Hadid's daughter is Khai... here, other website like Grazia, Glamour or Elle... I think we should change the name because it isnt true. What y'all think? Datsofelija (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Datsofelija. I think you should start a discussion about this at Talk:Bella Hadid and explain why you feel a change is needed. The best place to discuss or propose changes be made to a particular article is generally the talk page of the article. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi thank you @Marchjuly. :) Datsofelija (talk) 12:39, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding on to this, you're correct on the matter that Daily Sabah is generally considered as an unreliable source. See this and WP:RSPSOURCES for more. NotAGenious (talk) 12:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Datsofelija her sort-of former brother-in-law, who grew up less than 2 miles from me, also had false information on his article for 10+ years until I corrected it. However as soon as false information is added to Wikipedia, it spreads like wildfire. Danstarr69 (talk) 18:06, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@NotAGenious Thank you! :)

@Danstarr69 Wow so thank you too and yes i needed to talk here for putting back the things... for me its very important to keep wikipedia (french or english) as clear as possible! :) Datsofelija (talk) 20:09, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Help with edits I made through my ip, rather that my account.

Hi, I accidentally made a edit while not logged in through my account, so it was registered through my ip rather than my account. Is there any way to fix this? MrGamerBoy40 (talk) 16:33, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Please follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requests for oversight. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Can "Copyright Encyclopedia" be used as a source?

Can Copyright Encyclopedia be used as a source?

Copyright Encyclopedia

I was searching Google for sources of another name for an old songwriter/singer/musician, who like most old artists from 50+ years ago, he's credited by multiple slightly different names, mainly by swapping their Given name with a Middle name, and I came across a link for the Copyright Encyclopedia.

It's the only decent link I can find for one variation of his full name (minus the Junior (suffix)). Danstarr69 (talk) 17:57, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69 I find it difficult to answer your question because there's nothing on that site to explain how its content is put together, and you did not link to any specific entry. You might be best asking at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard for their opinion.

TBH: it's probably not a massive issue to simply say something David Frederick Alan Jone wrote under various arrangements of his birth name including FAD, DAF and AFD.{citation1,2,3} One source suggests he may also have published under the name of AFJ {citation4} You obviously shouldn't cite a homemade blog or database, but that encyclopaedia does have an air of credibility and detail about it, and an error would hardly be that significant. Maybe others here have a different view. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:30, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Which is the best source?

They all basically say the same thing, I'm just wondering which is best out of

• GovInfo
• Justia
• FindLaw
• Casetext

Danstarr69 (talk) 20:16, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69 Depending what it is you want to cite - and assuming it's referring to a specific American law, I would envisage that any government website would be the best primary source to use. But maybe other sites give better interpretations of those laws, so you might want to use those as secondary sources if it's an interpretation that you want to cite, and if you deem them reliable. But what would I know? Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:40, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Nick Moyes it was just to use another source to confirm a name.

However now I've looked at them a bit closer, they are for 3 or 4 different cases, which all seem to be about tax and music rights so...

I've decided to simply add a brief sentence about those court cases, and use them all. If someone wants to expand on those cases by going into specifics, and maybe add a "court cases" header later down the line, they'll have all the information they need. Danstarr69 (talk) 21:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69 That makes sense, providing you aren't unnecessarily repeating citations to the same thing. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:10, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Adding notable alumni to Lansing Eastern High School Wikipedia page

I've successfully added Lt General Paul Stein and Dennis Hill to the list of notable alumni. I have been unsuccessful in adding Jim Murray. Jim is a grammy award winning gospel singer, he sang backup to Elvis and was a friend of his. Jim is well known and anyone who wishes to check his bonafides can simply Google him.

Someone please help!

HeritageGolf (talk) 20:40, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Notable alumni sections are for listing people with Wikipedia articles. The persons you added don't seem to, or at least you didn't link them if they did. 331dot (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@HeritageGolf I will add to that by suggesting that if an article does not yet exist about that person, and you have good sources that suggest he is likely to, then your edit must include citations to support what you said. You could WP:REDLINK it so that, when the time comes that an article is created about that ostensibly notable person, it will then automatically turn into a functioning link to their page. But we always remove uncited links to 'notable alumni'. Prove he's notable, and I expect Cullen328 won't remove it a second time! Nick Moyes (talk) 20:51, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I added Stein and Hill to that list because both have Wikipedia artcles. Jim Murray may be notable, especially because he won several Grammys, but I am not sure. I explained this to HeritageGolf a few days ago. Cullen328 (talk) 21:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

How to make my article go live on Google

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have just finished writing my drafted article on Wikipedia. Please let me know to confirm how to make it publicly live on Google search results as I appreciate your expert advice.

Yours faithfully

Shivay Chopra Shivaay02 (talk) 21:50, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Shivaay02: you don't. A draft isn't indexed by Google, and an article newly published also isn't indexed by Google until some lengthy amount of time lapses. This is Wikipedia, and we have no control over how Google does its thing.

Also you wrote the draft, presumably about yourself, on your user page. User pages aren't indexed by Google either, and your user page has been deleted for inappropriate use. See Wikipedia:User pages for guidance about what you use your user page for. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Shivaay02 On your Talk you state your attempt was about an actor and not yourself. See WP:YFA for how to create a draft. See WP:BACKWARD for advice on having valid references for all facts. After you submit a draft it gets reviewed. Because of a large amount of drafts waiting for reviewers, this could take months. If your draft is accepted, it can be up to 90 days before it can be seen via a Google search. David notMD (talk) 01:59, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Please I need a help on publishing article

Theoder innocent okechukwu page 2A02:3032:20A:A9F2:8985:D79D:A85:9B0B (talk) 21:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello. Can you link to it? 331dot (talk) 22:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

You're going to have to be more specific. You have not asked a question, you have not linked anything. If you want to publish an article go to WP:AFC and follow the instructions. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I assume they are referring to Draft:Theoder Innocent Okechukwu which was declined at 21.50 - 2 minutes before their post here - Arjayay (talk) 22:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Page name switch approval

Does anybody think that it would be OK to switch a page name from hub oil explosion to 1999 Calgary Oil Hub Explosion? Joshbanana (talk) 22:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Joshbanana, you should discuss this on the article's talk page. Maproom (talk) 22:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbanana: If there is another "Hub Oil" explosion, then disambiguating it as "1999 Calgary Hub Oil explosion" would be appropriate, but otherwise it isn't necessary to add the "1999 Calgary" if there is only one such event. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:22, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Can somebody please help me with my page?

I’m having quite a bit of trouble finding references and sources for a page I’m trying to create. Can anyone help me?

Click here for the page. Joshbanana (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbanana: If you have "trouble finding references and sources for a page" then you certainly should not have started the page. A Wikipedia article must summarize what reliable sources say about the subject. No sources → no article. --CiaPan (talk) 22:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

If you were going to be irrelevant, why did you reply?

Also, keep in mind I’ve only been editing for about six months and that I don’t know everything about Wikipedia and the requirements.

I’m also 14 and I’m trying my hardest, so I’d appreciate if you would show some understanding. Joshbanana (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbanana: Actually, CiaPan is not "being irrelevant". He's telling you basic things about Wikipedia editing. Your draft, in its current state, just won't do, regardless if you were 14 or 140. Wikipedia has guidelines everyone has to follow. If you want to contribute positively to Wikipedia (and believe me, that's a very nice and enjoyable thing to do), you have to know these basic things. Check the links he included. 〜 Festucalex • talk 05:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Joshbanana!

All of your citations appear to violate wp:primary. I did find some sources going to the news section of google, however, some of them might not be reliable. Also, a lot of the article seems to be puffery. For example, the entire final section is a generic, unsourced paragraph that is praising him. I could attach that to pretty much any other influencer. Citation 4 should be used in the paragraph, not the heading, and is also a primary source. The article is borderline at the point where I would start-over, or even, delete the draft.

Also, as I doubt that you are Benji Krol, you need to either get his permission for the images, or delete them. ✶Mitch199811✶ 22:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree that the page should probably be restarted. Thank you for your feedback. I do have one question when I’m finished the revamped version, would you mind having a look at it? Joshbanana (talk) 22:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I will, please either ask me on my user talk page or ping me on the draft's talk page when you are finished. ✶Mitch199811✶ 22:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Mitch199811: I understand your doubt - and I keep a marginal bit of it, too - anyway I rather suppose the subject and the author are the same person. In other words, IMHO Joshbanana builds WP:AUTO. --CiaPan (talk) 23:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Joshbanana: If you would read WP:BACKWARD and WP:Golden Rule, you would get good guidance. Basically you need to find your sources first and then write your article based on what your sources say. And, your sources should be reliable, independent of the subject, and provide significant coverage of the subject. If you cannot find such sources, then CiaPan's reply to you is correct; you shouldn't have started the draft. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Joshbanana, what is currently on the draft as of this revision reads like advertising copy. It is very, very far removed from encyclopedic tone and is distinctly not WP:NEUTRAL. Even if reliable sources existed to support this prose, the entire draft would have to be completely rewritten before it could become an article. --Hammersoft (talk) 01:33, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Drafts about this person have been Declined ten times since first attempt in Nov 2022. Joshbanana has deleted the Declined notices. At no point have the drafts been referenced with independent refs. David notMD (talk) 02:13, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Query about external links

Hi, I don’t edit that much on Wikipedia so just wanted to clear up something. I was going over some articles I edited before in this case Warren Farm and noticed some external links added (not by me). I just wanted to check if it allowed to have external links to website linked as one of them is a local campaign website against the development so wanted to check for neutrality purposes if it is fine. Encyloedit (talk) 23:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I removed the two links that were just added today. It isn't appropriate to promote campaigns or petitions. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Encyloedit (talk) 08:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist Thanks. One other thing I noticed was that one of the sources added (by other users) was a YouTube video. Is that acceptable or should I remove that content? Encyloedit (talk) 10:40, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Encyloedit. YouTube videos can be linked to and cited as sources per WP:YOUTUBE as long as they (1) qualify as a reliable source, (2) are used in proper context and (3) are not considered to be copyright violating content. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:57, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Eureka Stockade article

Can someone please tell me how may I add the Eureka Stockade (disambiguation) link to the top of the Eureka Stockade (fortification) article? Robbiegibbons (talk) 05:12, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Robbiegibbons,

You can use the {{other uses}}-template on the top of the page. Happy editing! NotAGenious (talk) 09:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Request for self block?

Hello, I would like to know whether is it possible for me to request for a self block on Wikipedia for a definite period of time that is 4 months as I am currently trying to focus on something more important in personal life and I have tried limiting Wikipedia but I keep getting back to it again. Is there a way to request for global account block for certain period of time and get unblocked back again later? Any help is appreciated. Thank you. 456legend(talk) 05:18, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, 456legend! I very much doubt a steward would be willing to globally (i.e all Wikimedia sites) block your account as a self-requested action, but you may be able to ask one of the administrators in the category Wikipedia administrators willing to consider placing self-requested blocks for a block specific to the English Wikipedia. —Sirdog (talk) 05:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Or just use an enforced wikibreak, which will prevent logging in. See WP:BREAKENF Meters (talk) 06:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@456legend I've put an offer to block you on en-wiki on your talk page. If you really want to go ahead, please reply to me there and I will assist you. I can't help with other Wikipedia projects, though. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:28, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all for your input.456legend(talk) 09:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Good luck! Nick Moyes (talk) 15:07, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia article

My recent article submission to article for creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted.

Here is the link of article:- Draft:Devis Paganelli What should I do to get it publish.

Am Broly (talk) 11:10, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Am Broly,

Have you read the reasons provided to you on the draft? NotAGenious (talk) 11:23, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia

How do you log in? 41.116.54.103 (talk) 11:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Please take a look at H:LOGIN. NotAGenious (talk) 11:22, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Are my sources reliable?

I am editing the Clay Kids page, and I don't know if the sources are reliable. I use some references to YouTube and Twitter but I don't know if I should be referencing news articles instead. I'm also editing it with a MAC user and they seem to have a lot of information, so I follow based on that too. DaClayCrew (talk) 11:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @DaClayCrew,

I don't have the time to go through your edit as of right now, but I might do so later. For now, you can for example take a look at WP:VIDEOLINK and WP:RSPTWITTER for information on using YouTube and Twitter as sources. NotAGenious (talk) 11:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I'll read this. DaClayCrew (talk) 12:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Would an article about an ongoing wildfire be OK?

Should I start a draft about the Flat Fire? https://www.kdrv.com/news/top-stories/roughly-120-acre-flat-fire-burning-in-curry-county-near-agness/article_e0dff204-2385-11ee-a8b3-7f25df9fad9a.html https://kobi5.com/news/flat-fire-burning-at-about-120-acres-in-curry-county-211783/ https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2023/07/15/large-wildfire-reported-near-oak-flat-in-southwest-oregon-agness/70417528007/ 206.204.236.108 (talk) 17:23, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

It seems notable enough to me, and reliable sources can be found online. Have you taken a look at WP:FIRST, do you think it meets the criteria? NotAGenious (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

In the case of creating an article about a current event, I would also suggest taking a look at WP:NOTNEWS. NotAGenious (talk) 18:08, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

You can find guidance at about the notability of a widfire at Wikipedia:WikiProject Wildfire/Guidelines. If it is 2000 to 3000 acres, it may be notable. Cullen328 (talk) 18:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

It meets 1 and 4. It currently doesn't, and hopefully won't, meet 2 and 3. Is meeting two of the conditions enough? 206.204.236.108 (talk) 20:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

That is not a formal guideline but rather informal guidance by a WikiProject. This fire meets that guidance. Cullen328 (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Signing an edit

It's been a while since I've edited. Please remind me how to "sign/include my user name." Thanks NotHoratio (talk) 17:27, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @NotHoratio,

Use four tildes to get your signature on talk pages, like this: ~~~~. You can also see WP:SIG for more information. NotAGenious (talk) 17:31, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@NotHoratio: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you have the new Reply tool enabled, your signature will be automatically added to the end of your comments when you post them. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Creating a disambiguation page

Hello all,

I'm currently in the process of possibly creating a disambiguation page for Annalynn, as both Annallynn (video game) and Annalynn (band) have the same name. I have read all the policies, and I'm trying to figure out which of them is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, if neither. Could someone help me on this? According to the page views, the video game article has more views, so would it be more beneficial to use the For-template, or should I be bold and create the draft? Thanks in advance. NotAGenious (talk) 17:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, NotAGenious. If there are only two topics that need to be disambiguated, then there is no need for a separate disambiguation page. You can resolve the matter with hatnotes. You can use Template:For to accomplish that. Cullen328 (talk) 18:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I'm confused, because if neither of the articles are primary topics, then WP:NOPRIMARY states the following:

If there are multiple topics (even just two) to which a given title might refer, but there is no primary topic (per the criteria at § Is there a primary topic?), then the base name should lead the reader to the disambiguation page for the term.

I questioned the need for a disambiguation page too, but is the policy a bit unclear? NotAGenious (talk) 19:13, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

It means that instead of a disambiguation page being Dubuque (disambiguation) (where Dubuque is the town in Iowa, and therefore needs a parentheses denoter), it is simply Bee Branch. ✶Mitch199811✶ 19:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

NotAGenious, all signs point to the video game being the primary topic, but I could be wrong. Cullen328 (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Raise a straightforward question on an article

There is a line in a bio of a congressman (Eli Crane) that says "Crane allegedly served in the U.S. Navy from 2001 to 2014." There is no explanation as to why they said "allegedly". I wanted to simply raise that question on the 'talk' page, but I cannot. It is a bio page of a living person and I'm thinking that might be the problem. There is no offer to 'start a topic' on that page as there is on a 'standard' page. I am not looking to edit per se, I want to raise the question. Any help would be appreciated. Cuchulain9 (talk) 18:28, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Cuchulain9. I removed the word "allegedly" since there are several sources verifying his military service. You could have done this yourself. Neither Eli Crane nor Talk: Eli Crane are protected at this time, and the talk page seems to be functioning normally. Cullen328 (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I knew I could remove it but I wondered why it was labeled 'alleged' and wanted to raise the question. I still don't know why I couldn't do it there but I can do that on other pages. Cheers. Cuchulain9 (talk) 00:56, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

"New Editor" seeking guidance on a question regarding in-depth editing on Wikipedia

Hello everyone,

I hope you are all doing well on this fine day. I have been a long-time reader and admirer of Wikipedia, with a deep lifelong interest in mathematics and physics—especially the more advanced topics (e.g. differential geometry). Recently, I have encountered a significant question regarding contributing to Wikipedia in these specialized fields, and I am seeking guidance on the best approach.

Essentially, I want to begin to more significantly contribute to the articles of advanced mathematics and physics topics on Wikipedia. I have been making small edits for quite a long time, but I feel an urge to do more. I have come to a deeper, more grounded understanding of many fascinating and important concepts that were once unclear to me, and I wish to improve the already excellent resource that is Wikipedia by refining the (already quite excellent!) writings with these insights to help others on their own path of learning.

The reason this is not just as simple as "well just start doing it", but is a complex and involved question that I feel requires nuanced explanation, is because it is essentially (fundamentally, even) a social issue. This is especially complicated for me because I am autistic, and I fear accidentally stepping on somebody's toes, so to speak, in the act of "just trying to help" and make Wikipedia an even better place for the world's information, friendly and insightful to all.

However, I am unsure if the Teahouse is the appropriate forum to address such a question, as I don't want to overwhelm the page with a lengthy and intricate query—especially a space that is specifically designed to be friendly for newcomers and the like.

Considering the expertise and experience of the community here, I am reaching out to seek your advice on the best course of action. I would greatly appreciate your guidance on whether the Teahouse is the right place to share my question, or if there is some other place where it would be more appropriate to discuss "The right way, the kind and thoughtful way, to constructively add to (physics & mathematics on) Wikipedia."

Thank you all for your time and patience. I genuinely value your insights and expertise, and I look forward to receiving your advice on how to proceed with my inquiry so I can join the Wikipedia community in a healthy, wholesome, and helpful way.

Warm regards,

Castle. 76.125.192.226 (talk) 19:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I suggest that you ask your question here, doing your best to be clear and concise. Teahouse hosts may refer you elsewhere, depending on the technical complexity of your question. Cullen328 (talk) 19:30, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

We (including those spectrum and 'spectrum-adjacent') will be better able to advise if you identify an article you want to amend. A loose guideline is BRD, as in be Bold in edits, but if Reverted, open a Discussion on the article's Talk page. Be aware that highly technical articles may have few editors watching for changes or keeping an eye on the Talk page, so if you propose your changes on the Talk page first, your effort may be unanswered for a long time. HOWEVER, in your query you mention coming to an understanding of concepts. What you yourself conceive of is 'original research' and is not allowed. Any concept you modify or add must be verified by reliable source references at the same time. David notMD (talk) 21:57, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Lastly, it appears you have put content at Wikipedia's Sandbox, which gets frequently bot-cleared. Consider creating an account and using your account Sandbox to develop your ideas for either major article revision or a new article. David notMD (talk) 22:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

How to improve a draft

I am working on Draft:Greg J. Marchand. I have discussed it with other reviewers like @Herpetogenesis:, who declined it but gave me some helpful feedback. He says that the draft "looks promising" and provided critical but overall positive comments. I have fully declared everything on my user page and the draft talk page.

What is the best way to continue improving this draft so that it would be ready for AfC or a review again? Do @Cullen328: and other users have suggestions on how I might be able to move forward? Thank you! Danthemedguy22 (talk) 21:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Danthemedguy22, there is a long and sordid history of unethical attempts to create an article about this person going back for years. The most recent discussion was at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gregory Marchand about six months ago, and support for deletion was unanimous. I recommend that you abandon this effort. Cullen328 (talk) 22:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Danthemedguy22: I agree with Cullen. Apparently Greg Marchand refuses to accept that Wikipedia isn't a publicity medium, and must never be used that way. It seems he was paying shady undisclosed paid editors, and now he's paying an honest disclosed editor. The point is, he's paying for publicity on Wikipedia. I am skeptical that your efforts to draft an article would be accepted given the history. Maybe in a year. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

If you are honest about this, remove all refs to Marchand's sci journal co-authored articles and see if there are sufficient reliable source references ABOUT him. David notMD (talk) 22:28, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Thank you for your response to my Teahouse question.

I do not know who did all the work before me. I checked some random pages such as Kobi Arad, Cardano (cryptocurrency platform) and many others that were subjects of very intense Wikipedia discussions, and they have had long histories of repeated deletions due to unethical editing. They finally made it back up onto Wikipedia after all necessary protocols and declaration requirements were followed.

I have stated before that I would like a completely clean, new start. The most recent deletion actually happened due to an off-wiki encounter, which the community strongly opposed. Therefore, I suggest that we need have another objective, neutral review. Is there any possible way forward? Danthemedguy22 (talk) 22:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Danthemedguy22: If you must move forward with it, do so and submit it for review. Take David notMD's advice above, take the advice in WP:Golden Rule and WP:BACKWARD to heart, and start over. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

The previous versions of Greg J. Marchand were horribly written self-promotional pieces. These simply did not belong on Wikipedia, and the salting was done since we were all fed up with repeated unethical attempts. But to be fair, Danthemedguy22 does have a point here. It's not unreasonable to ask for a fresh start if we blow it up and start all over again (WP:TNT). The January 2023 AfD was nominated by Doc James exactly when the community asked him to resign since he deleted Marchand due to an off-wiki personal vendetta, after the article was on Wikipedia for nearly two full years from around 2021-2022. Also I do think that an article about Marchand could likely be useful for readers browsing through Wikipedia articles about laparoscopy, salpingectomy, and neonatology. Basic GNG and NBIO criteria seem to be met, as he's clearly someone who had made a notable impact in a few medical science subspecialties. There are over 50 PubMed hits, which would be quite an achievement at least in my field, which is evolutionary/taxonomic biology. There are also dozens of independent third-party media mentions. I believe it's reasonable to seriously reconsider this draft if it is properly rewritten. HᴇʀᴘᴇᴛᴏGᴇɴᴇꜱɪꜱ (talk) 23:21, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Danthemedguy22, the important question is not about “improving”, but deciding whether to topic meets the threshold for inclusion. Follow the advice at WP:THREE. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:31, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

"Articles" list included four conference presentations of abstracts, i.e., not peer-reviewed journal articles, so I deleted those. Also, if he is 'known' for laproscopic surgery, I recommend cuting all the neonatology stuff. David notMD (talk) 02:43, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Encyclopedia.com

I'm wondering if https://www.encyclopedia.com/ is a notable and reliable source for article building. I want to create a new article for WP about composer Vincent Plush. This page at encyclopedia.com republishes an article about him from Baker’s Biographical Dictionary of Musicians. If I were to cite encyclopedia.com for the WP article, how would I also cite Baker’s Biographical Dictionary of Musicians from which is it sourced, as it is not itself published online? Walton22 (talk) 22:19, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Walton22: Other encyclopedias are considered WP:TERTIARY sources. You can use it, but secondary sources are preferable. I would cite Baker's instead. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:21, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Anachronist, thank you very much for quick reply. How would I directly cite Baker's without a hard copy in my hand, and given it is not published online? All I have is a secondary citation of it by encyclopedia.com Walton22 (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

I would probably just use Encyclopedia.com then unless you can find a better source that agrees with it. ✶Mitch199811✶ 23:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Walton22, would one of these fit the bill? -- Hoary (talk) 23:17, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Hoary, thanks very much for finding that. I should be able to source that way. Walton22 (talk) 23:23, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

how do i make my own article

title explains all SwashbucklingSalamander (talk) 00:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, you may want to read WP:YFA. However, I would strongly recommend you get more experience working on existing articles before creating your own. When you feel confident, you can use the Article Wizard to assist in the creation of your article. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 00:54, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Swash subsequently indef blocked. David notMD (talk) 02:53, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Court decisions

Is it okay to link to court decisions in a footnote, or must they be relegated to a separate reference heading? Court decisions are primary sources, but more authoritative and useful than a secondary source. I have linked to a recent Ninth Circuit court decision in the text of Rosemont Copper. But I have also used newspaper articles that refer to the court decision. Detrital (talk) 01:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Historical And Cultural Clowns Not Categorically Linked And Historical Pages Missing

Hello, I am writing today because I was researching into historical clowns who were specifically black people. This was surprisingly much harder than I thought it would be, with only 2 named individuals popping up and majority of the articles being unrelated to them and instead focusing on blackface and the social effects it has had. While blackface is definitely an important thing to remember and discuss, it has directly blocked individuals looking to discover historical black clowns, and may even be continuing to skew modern perceptions of clowning as a occupation. This may be directly harming modern day performers, and so I would like to create some articles or at least interlink articles that are relevant to each other. What little information I discovered was very interesting, but with no easily found relation to one and another making finding related or relevant information incredibly frustrating.

First and foremost: There does currently exist a wikipedia article for Rafael Padilla (aka Chocolat), who was a French clown during the late 1800s to early 1900s. However, it does not link to any main clowning articles nor even a specific "famous black clowns" category page. He was a very fascinating man, but is not even listed on the "List of Clowns" page the main clown page links to.

Further, there does not exist an article for the first black clown in Ringlings Circus, Reggie Montgomery, who died as recent as 2002 and was even an actor in several films and tv shows such as: Matlock, Law and Order, and even a Malcolm X movie. This man was historically very important in western clowning, and deserves official recognition for such. There is almost no recorded images I can find easily of this man, and majority of the articles appear to be related to his death in 2002. There is also the notable mention of the Indianapolis Clowns, a baseball team from the 1930s to the 1960s who were renown for playing baseball with gags such as oversized gloves or even pantomiming a game without a baseball or bat. While unpainted, they were unmistakably taking part in clowning as an art form, and deserve recognition and notability for such. It is also notable they were the first baseball team to include a woman, which also means they may be the first record of a famous black clownette.

There is also no categorical organization of non-white nor non-western clowning in relation to the general wester idea of clowns, despite there being articles such as on Heyoka from the Sioux. Though they may not be inherently related to one and another, clowning is even noted on the clown wikipedia page to have been around for at least thousands of years citing possibility to have originated in Egypt. The fact that non-western examples such as the Heyoka are completely isolated from the page, yet black face is directly up and front, appears to pushes a unsavory perception and further pushes non-white actors out of peoples perceptions of clowning.

Though it may not come off as important as some other educational articles, I am very passionate about this. There is a great disservice for Reggie Montgomery, who at the very least deserves a wiki page rather than just an IMDB page. There is also a distinct lack of recognition and accessibility for information on non-white clowns, which ends up creating a untrue perception of clownings history. Black clowns deserve to be recognized and represented appropriately, as well as all other forms of non-white clowning deserves to at least be acknowledged in the same genre to understand sociologically how we have developed this art form yet have had unique cultural distinctions over the years.

Please advise me however I can to at least get a basic article started so others may find what little information I have found, and so others may even take further strides in discovering historical people and maybe even representation for those who are interested in the art and occupation. Thank you for your time and consideration in this, this is my first time ever considering creating or editing wikipedia pages so I appreciate any assistance in the matter. ClownTownMayor (talk) 02:03, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

ClownTownMayor, you seem to think that this is a notable subject. But being a notable subject (as thinking people normally understand notability) and being a notable subject (as English-language-Wikipedia understands notability) are two different things. When contemplating the creation of a new draft or article, you have to assess the latter. So here (in this discussion thread) please (i) say what would be the subject of the draft/article you have in mind, and (ii) specify the three best reliable sources that you have found for this subject. -- Hoary (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@ClownTownMayor: It might be helpful to create a category like Category:African-American clowns and then go through List of clowns and add appropriate ones to the category. One in the list, Skeeter Reece, isn't explicitly identified as African-American in the article even though they have another African-American category. It is possible that there are other articles like that. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Additions / edits removed without any explanation.

I spent several days editing a few links on this existing so-called 'stub' page. They were reverted.

Michael Stuart Ani

No explanation. As I made the edits, I reviewed some of the basic Wiki requirements, and am not sure which of my edits failed, and again the administrator didn't say why, just 'too many problems'. For example, I found other living people had links to their various social media pages, so that shouldn't be the issue. Finding authentic links on social media is important to ensure that person's official social media pages are found, and not copycats. I added ISBN reference - deleted. I added career update from 2019 and reference to a registered non-profit's web page - deleted. I added an interesting book review from an obscure source - a Chinese/English art magazine- deleted.

The area where this person is known is in indigenous metaphysical & religious knowledge. I don't know if that influenced this administrators decision, since nothing was said. This area is historically ignored by western media, (while society literally outlawed indigenous religious rituals). So references are hard to find. I did find a few and tried to add into the page.

When I looked at that administrators talk page, another user had a similar complaint, and another complained about losing a draft sandbox, also without initial explanation. I made several statements on the Ani talk page, but no one responded. Do I need to write directly on that administrators talk page to get a response? That seems confrontational.

In course of researching links, I found about a dozen non-profits that focus in this indigenous area, and none appeared to have Wiki pages. This makes it harder to ensure correct references. I started to draft a new page for just one such wiki (see my sandbox). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fbcooper/sandbox

I haven't submitted this new page, since I don't know what was wrong about the few edits I made to an existing page, and my experience with Wiki isn't positive at this point.

If Wiki admins don't bother explaining their choices, why does Wiki say 'please help us improve this stub', and then have administrators say they are too busy to explain? Since Wikipedia has claimed it wanted to be more balanced in covering indigenous topics, why not make effort to educate how to expand details on these areas? Or if an administrator is too busy to explain themselves, perhaps they should not edit other people's work.

Thank you for your consideration. Fbcooper (talk) 03:05, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Fbcooper, you say: "For example, I found other living people had links to their various social media pages, so that shouldn't be the issue. Finding authentic links on social media is important to ensure that person's official social media pages are found, and not copycats." Wikipedia is, unfortunately, riddled with poor-quality articles. We don't want to increase their number. Ani has what's described here as an "official" website. He's most welcome to provide links there to his "social media" addresses. So, let's look at the recent deletions. Here's one chunk: "He first lived in Mexico’s remote Sierra Mazateca cloud forest of Oaxaca from the end of the 1960’s through the 1970’s. He was the only outsider to have ever been allowed into their sacred cloud forests, and still returns as often as he can to visit the Mazateca indigenous community there." No reference. Why should the reader believe this? -- Hoary (talk) 05:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@Fbcooper: you asked Do I need to write directly on that administrators talk page to get a response? That seems confrontational. What you're looking for is officially called a mention notification, but everyone says "ping" for short. On any talk page where you post a message that you will sign (like here) you can add a link to the user's page and they will get a notification. There are several ways to do so, most often using the {{u}} or {{reply to}} templates. In this post, I've pinged you with the "reply to" template and in the post above, Hoary has done so by manually linking to your user page. (That previous sentence creates a ping to Hoary using the "u" template.)

When you post a message to an article's talk page, it often helps to ping specific editors. In your case, I see two editors who have reverted content that you've added to the article. It looks like Hoary already touched on the article content. If you are thinking about writing articles from scratch, I would highly suggest reading the essay, Wikipedia:Writing Wikipedia articles backward. I think it's the best introduction for new users. Take care, Rjjiii (talk) 06:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Rjjiii, this started as a stub created by a different editor back in 2017. Fbcooper, I am a bit surprised by the deletion of "Michael Stuart Ani. Heather Vuchinich (ed.). Ghost Dance - An Untold History of the Americas. ISBN 978-1535547659." (Bbb23 might comment on its deletion.) However, this book, unpromisingly, was published by CreateSpace (the vanity-publishing tentacle of Amazon), and it's rare for reviewers, libraries, etc to bother with books that CreateSpace puts out. -- Hoary (talk) 07:18, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but the editor also mentioned a Sinchi Foundation draft [1] and when I took a look, the references are either primary sources or other articles here. Rjjiii (talk) 07:22, 17 July 2023 (UTC)