Talk:Barack Obama

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Frequently asked questions

To view the response to a question, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

Family and religious background

Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?

A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue.

Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?

A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body.

Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?

A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this.

Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?

A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names.

Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?

A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories.

Controversies, praise, and criticism

Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?

A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay.

Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?

A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles.

Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!

A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD.

Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.

A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored.

Talk and article mechanics

Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?

A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit.

Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?

A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article.

Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?

A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache.

Disruption

Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?

A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics.

Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!

A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion.

Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.

A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged.

Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!

A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:

Efforts by established single-purpose accounts to introduce such poorly-sourced content will be summarily deleted.
On the second such attempt, the source in question will be immediately reported to the reliable sources noticeboard for administrative assistance.

New editors who wish to engage in discussions on previously rejected content are encouraged to ensure that their sources do not violate any of Wikipedia's policies and sourcing guidelines.

Other

Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?

A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there.

Barack Obama is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 4, 2008.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 12, 2004	Featured article candidate	Promoted
August 18, 2004	Today's featured article	Main Page
January 23, 2007	Featured article review	Kept
July 26, 2007	Featured article review	Kept
April 15, 2008	Featured article review	Kept
September 16, 2008	Featured article review	Kept
November 4, 2008	Today's featured article	Main Page
December 2, 2008	Featured article review	Kept
March 10, 2009	Featured article review	Kept
March 16, 2010	Featured article review	Kept
June 17, 2012	Featured article review	Kept
October 22, 2012	Featured article review	Kept
A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on November 5, 2008.
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on November 4, 2013.
Current status: Featured article

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Foreign policy of the Barack Obama administration was copied or moved into Barack Obama with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism.

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This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Jose Antonio Vargas (September 17, 2007). "On Wikipedia, Debating 2008 Hopefuls' Every Facet". The Washington Post.
Alison Stewart, Rachel Martin (April 3, 2008). "'Round the Clock: Obama, Clinton Wiki-Warfare". The Bryant Park Project, NPR.
Brooke Gladstone, Bob Garfield (April 4, 2008). "Editors in Chief". On The Media, NPR.
Eve Fairbanks (April 9, 2008). "Wiki Woman". The New Republic.
Jesse Brown (April 10, 2008). "Hillary's Wiki Defender". Search Engine, CBC Radio One.
Tom Foreman (April 11, 2008). "Wikipedia Wars". This Week..., CNN.
John J. Miller (April 21, 2008). "Liberal Web". National Review.
Kelly Heyboer (May 28, 2008). "Clinton's entry in Wikipedia has a watchdog". The Star-Ledger.
Paul Murnane (May 28, 2008). "NJ Man Appoints Himself Wikipedia Watchdog". WCBS Newsradio 880.
Noam Cohen (November 9, 2008). "Updating a Reference Site on the Fly". The New York Times.
Adrian Bridgwater (January 22, 2009). "Obama Wikipedia page under possible security attack". ZDNet.
Aaron Klein (March 8, 2009). "Wikipedia scrubs Obama eligibility". WorldNetDaily.
Joshua Rhett Miller (March 9, 2009). "Obama's Wikipedia Page Distances President from Wright and Ayers". Fox News Channel.
Mark Coleman (March 10, 2009). "Barack Obama 'receives preferential treatment on Wikipedia', report claims". The Daily Telegraph.
Noam Cohen (July 19, 2009). "Wikipedia May Be a Font of Facts, but It's a Desert for Photos". The New York Times.
Staff (August 17, 2009). "The 50 most-viewed Wikipedia articles in 2009 and 2008". The Daily Telegraph.

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Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2015

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Please change age from 53 to 54 because his birthday (August 4) just passed. 24.103.221.66 (talk) 04:02, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 24. The age will (and has) change automatically. You should see 54 in the current version of the article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 04:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname

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There should be some mention that he had the nickname Barry. I mention this because I read this somewhere and wanted to check wiki to see if it was true because I never heard this. I ended up having to use another reference. So if I was using wiki to confirm this then others might.

Also it is interesting information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.102.163.50 (talk • contribs)

Not done Well, the thing is we cannot accept original research. Which means you must be able to prove your claims are accurate. You said you've read it on elsewhere, so you can provide that (the reference you used) as a source. But it has to be reliable. -- Chamith (talk) 06:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/07/04/when-president-obama-was-just-barry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.128.125.130 (talk) 13:29, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/barry-obama-newsweek/2008/03/24/id/323286/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.128.125.130 (talk) 13:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

Why is he listed as "African American" rather than mixed race (his mother being white)? LeapUK (talk) 11:26, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See the "Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)" at the top of the page, click "show" on the right to expand and then find Q2. Tarc (talk) 12:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, see the No true Scotsman fallacy. He's an African American. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This has been dealt with during the User:Antiedman edit War of 2009-2010. Iamiyouareyou Iamiyouareyou (talk)

His being of mixed-race seems to be an obsession to some. I'm a Brit, so when I see Barack Obama I don't see a black man - I see an American. 5.81.27.83 (talk) 14:24, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]